Some other mostly random thoughts on Leaf prehistory

These are just semi-random things that I either thought of last night, post-post or didn't have a direct use for while writing:

On the Leafs and their own past:

One of the wiki articles (I could find it were I not so lazy, but the point is self-evident) mentions that the Leafs now do acknowledge their lineage including the St. Pats, Arenas (and no-names 1917-18).  This is clear enough from the fact that the 1918 and 1922 banners are hanging in the ACC.  The official team website shows a team history that dates from 1917 even though the all-time stats page still dates from 1927.

I mentioned yesterday that there might have been a legally pragmatic reason for Smythe to assert his ownership as a new beginning and avoid all reference to the legal chaos of the previous 10+ years.  Even today, I wonder whether that plays into the fact that history begins in 1917.  If the Leafs tie themselves in any way to Livingstone's team, does that leave an angle for his heirs (assuming there are some)?  Imagine the damages to the Livingstone family from the loss of what is now a billion-dollar enterprise....

The net result for Leaf fans is that the 1914 Cup will never be mentioned in polite company.  :)

Of course, the HHOF has this little gem:

Although it was their first ever appearance in a Stanley Cup final, it certainly was not the last for the Montreal Canadiens. The Stanley Cup series was decided by a two game total goal showdown between the Canadiens and the Toronto Blueshirts (later renamed the Maple Leafs). Swapping shutouts, Montreal blanked Toronto 2-0 in the first game, but the Blueshirts came back to win game two 6-0. As a result, Toronto claimed its first Stanley Cup title by outscoring Montreal 6-2. Game two in Toronto was the first Stanley Cup contest ever played on artificial ice.

(emphasis mine)


A few similarities:

1913-14 Blueshirts (NHA)


1917-18 No-Names (NHL)


The rosters of the 1916 Blueshirts and 1917 no-names:
(all stats from leafstats.  I love this site.  Tons of good stuff to find.)


PLAYER           GP   G   A  PTS  PIM
Duke Keats       13  16   2   18   65
*Corbett Denneny   8  14   1   15   35
*Reg Noble        14   9   3   12   51
*Harry Cameron    14   8   4   12   32
*Ken Randall      13   8   0    8   42
*Alf Skinner      14   5   2    7   49
Archie Briden    13   2   2    4   27
*Jack Coughlin     8   2   0    2    3
Bill Creighton    1   0   0    0    0
Bill Speck        2   0   0    0    0
? Brock           4   0   0    0    0
Andy Kyle        10   0   0    0    0
Billy Nicholson  10   0   0    0    0

Billy Nicholson  10  5  5  0   598  40   4.01   0
*? Brock           4  2  2  0   230  16   4.17   0
Duke Keats        2  0  0  0    10   5  30.00   0
TOTAL            14  7  7  0   838  61   4.37   0


POS  NO  PLAYER          GP   G   A  PTS  PIM
*LW    4  REG NOBLE       20  30  10   40   35
*LW    5  CORB DENNENY    21  20   9   29   14
*D     2  HARRY CAMERON   21  17  10   27   28
LW    7  HARRY MEEKING   21  10   9   19   28
*RW    6  ALF SKINNER     20  13   5   18   34
*RW/D  3  KEN RANDALL     21  12   2   14   96
D    10  HARRY MUMMERY   18   3   3    6   41
LW    -  RUSTY CRAWFORD   8   1   2    3   51
*F     8  JACK COUGHLIN    5   2   0    2    3
C     -  JACK ADAMS       8   0   0    0   31
RW    -  JACK MARKS       5   0   0    0    0


 1  HARRY HOLMES   16  965   9  7  0   0   0  76  4.73  0    0
* 1  ARTHUR BROOKS   4  220   2  2  0   0   0  23  6.27  0    0
 9  SAMMY HEBERT    2   80   1  0  0   0   0  10  7.50  0    0

Bolded players are on both teams.  See any similarities?  I'm assuming the unknown 'Brock' from 1916 is actually Arthur Brooks (the HHOF agrees).  Hap Holmes had been a Toronto Blueshirts goaltender from 1912-1915.  Billy Nicholson came from the Tecumsehs/Shamrocks/Ontarios team.

What happened to the other NHA teams?

- Montreal Canadiens - I think they still play somewhere or other.

- Montreal Wanderers - defeated the No-names in the first NHL game both played.  Final score 10-9, in which Wanderers goalie Bert Lindsay set a record (most recently (I think) tied by Tim Bernhardt) for most goals allowed in a win.  That was their only win.  Their arena burned down Jan 2, 1918 and the team disbanded.  Sad end for a team that had been a real beast and won Cup challenges in 1906, 1907, 1908 and 1910.

- Ottawa Senators - played in the NHL and won championships in 1920, 1921, 1923, 1927.  Team hit serious financial trouble in the Depression and moved to St. Louis for 1934-35 before disbanding.

- Quebec Bulldogs - sat out the 1917-18 and 1918-19 seasons, then rejoined the NHL.  After 1919-20, the NHL took the franchise over and put it in Hamilton (this stopped Eddie Livingstone from putting a team there) as the Tigers.  After a players' strike in 1925, the Hamilton Tigers became the New York Americans for 1925-26.  This lasted until 1941-42, when the then-named Brooklyn Americans folded, creating what we know as the "Original Six". is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of

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