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From My Blog-Why Frogren Deserves More Of A Chance

It seems lately that many Toronto Maple Leafs fans have been down on Swedish defenseman Jonas Frogren. I have seen more than one post on the Leafs fan boards calling Frogren a "bust signing." This needs to be discussed, as I disagree greatly with the negative opinions on Frogren. I can't help but wonder if these fans have actually paid attention to what he brings to the Maple Leafs.

First of all, Frogren was brought to the Leafs to fill a particular role-as a physical, defensive-minded player. He was not brought here to score points, so there will be plenty of nights when his name isn't called much, or where he just doesn't stand out. For a purely defensive player, this is not always a bad thing. In my opinion he has filled his role nicely. As far as being a physical presence, consider this: Jonas Frogren is second on the Leafs in hits, and he has only appeared in 9 games. Luke Schenn is the only player who has more hits than he does, and Schenn has played in almost twice as many games. His hits aren't small either. Frogren is capable of laying bodies out on the ice, and he has shown that he can rough up opposing players in his own zone. If the Maple Leafs are going to tighten up their defense and lower their goals-against ranking, they are going to have to utilize this element of Frogren's game much more often. That means no more scratching him from the lineup every other game, and limiting him to the 3rd pairing when he does play. With Mike Van Ryn injured, the Leafs might benefit from giving him much more ice time.

Personally, I would like to see the Maple Leafs place Jonas Frogren on the second pairing with Luke Schenn, and try that out for a couple games. That could prove to be a very effective shutdown pair, and one that the Leafs could use to wear down opposing forwards later in the game when fatigue starts to set in. Both players like to hit, and hit hard. Not to mention that pairing would be very effective at blocking shots. Jonas Frogren is absolutely fearless when it comes to putting his body on the line for his team. Whether he is brave, or just plain crazy, Frogren is not afraid to throw himself into the shooting lane and stop the puck at all costs. The Leafs would be foolish to not take full advantage of this craziness, especially at a time when they need to figure out a way to stop letting the puck in their net.

One argument I have heard against Frogren's play is that his plus/minus rating is bad. While this is true, its important to remember that this can often be a misleading stat. It is a measure of the entire line that is currently on the ice, and not always reflective of an individual's level of play. For the record, both Luke Schenn and Pavel Kubina are minus players. Most of the time, those guys are solid in their own end. Schenn leads the team in hits and Kubina leads the team in blocked shots, so their defensive play is not reflected accurately in their minus ratings. I believe Frogren's play is not accurately reflected in this stat as well.

The Toronto Maple Leafs as a team have simply loosened up in their own end. They need to find the tight defense they had earlier in the season, and one way to do that might be to switch up the defensive pairings and experiment a little. With Mike Van Ryn out, the Maple Leafs can certainly afford to give a defensive minded player like Frogren much more ice time. Since weve been allowing 4 or 5 goals a game recently, we really dont have anything to lose. So I say give the Viking his chance. Make him a regular on the Leafs second pairing, and the bodies will start to fall. Hopefully, so too will the Leafs goals against.

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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Free the hockey viking!

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on Nov 13, 2008 9:40 AM EST reply actions  

Good Post

Anyone slamming Frogren must be confused about his role. I see what you see: a sold shutdown defender. Most of the time he is just easily easing the puck out of the zone or hitting someone.

The Hockey Viking needs freeing.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 13, 2008 9:44 AM EST reply actions  

Labeling Frogren as a bust is pretty interesting considering that he brings to the table pretty much exactly what he was supposed to. He’s among the team leaders in hits and blocked shots per games played, while making no money.

But his positioning on the ice is just terrible. Watch the guy roam around our end and try not to bite your lip. Frogren’s no use to us if he can’t clear the net, and he was nowhere near two forwards last night against Calgary.

Putting him with Schenn is problematic because it means the kid basically has to play cover-up, Schenn’s got his own problems to worry about. Putting him with Stralman is problematic because they both like to wander, and if Stralman’s abandoned in front of the net we are well and truly fucked. Froggy and Kubina just aren’t terribly quick. It’s a predicament.

He brings the right skill set to the table, but he hasn’t adjusted to the game or ice surface well enough yet. As the season goes on he’ll be better, but between him, Schenn, Finger, Stralman, and Colaiacovo there are a startlingly few number of games played.

by koopa kid on Nov 13, 2008 9:46 AM EST reply actions  

I think Carlo would be Ideal for Frogurt to play with. He is quick enough to cover, has good positioning and an offensive upside. But that leaves the pairings as

Kabby – Schenn
Kubina – Finger
Carlo – Frogurt

Stralman needs ice time, he needs to get his confidence back before he is a total loss. I hate leaving him out of the line up

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on Nov 13, 2008 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

total agreement except...

I also like Carlo (the Warrior) with Jonas (the Viking).
Kaberle, I think, needs to play with another highly skilled defenceman to get the most out of him, so he should be with Kubina.
That leaves Finger and Schenn as a shutdown combo. Stralman is my odd man out as well. I really wish someone would offer us a 1st or 2nd round draft pick for him.

by general borschevsky on Nov 13, 2008 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I happened to notice that Frogren doesnt exactly have alot of fans on the mapleleafs.com message boards. Some people have had some rather negative things to say about him, so thats what inspired me to write this post.

I do agree that Kaberle/Kubina should be paired together. When those guys are on their game they are a solid top pair on any team in the league. However, the other two pairings need to be experimented with, since they havent exactly had alot of success in the past few games.

True Frogren didnt exactly look great against Calgary, but the whole team was lost out there. I dont know if it was the time shift or what, but they all just came out flat. Maybe some different pairings would get some chemistry going. I like Schenn/Frogren as the 2nd pair, and I think Finger/Stralman would be an interesting 3rd pair. Stralman has looked much better than Carlo so far, so for me Carlo is the odd man out here. He just hasnt kept up with his competition so far on the blue line.

As long as were letting in 4 goals a game, we dont have anything to lose by switching up the pairings. Giving a defensive guy like Frogren more playing time might pay off.

The Maple Leafs News Ticket. Yes, its another Leafs blog.

by Drake15 on Nov 13, 2008 12:02 PM EST reply actions  

You were talking about plus/minus with Frogren, and I agree with you. I look at plus/minus this way:

If you are a defensive player (forward or d-man), you will probably be minus. You will not be scoring, but you will be scored upon. But how much? a low minus for a player like Frogren is fine. Just don’t let it get crazy (a -20 or -30 would be bad). Players like Schenn at -10 for the year would be fine, because they are out against the other teams best, trying to stop goals. Antropov on the other hand should be at the other end, and should be above +20 or +30 for a great year. Think of the role, then look at the plus/minus stat.

by Kobra29 on Nov 13, 2008 12:20 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks Kobra.

Thats a pretty good summary of that stat. I hadnt really thought of it that way before now, but it makes perfect sense when one thinks about it. Defensive minded players rarely score, and more often are scored upon. As long as it is kept low then I dont see how it can be a knock on Frogrens play.

In fact, all the high goal scorers on our team (Grabovski, Hagman, Antropov) have pretty good plus ratings. its not a testament to their defensive play, but rather how awesome they are at burying the puck in the net. Role does have alot to do with it. Thanks for shedding some light on that!

The Maple Leafs News Ticket. Yes, its another Leafs blog.

by Drake15 on Nov 14, 2008 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

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