FTB - Time to Panic Edition? - Pension Plan Puppets

Yeah I want to know what’s up with Steen.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Nov 18, 2008 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Me too

I really like Steen but he gets shafted on linemates. Time to see if Stajan can do it with other guys and put Steen with the Soviet Bloc.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kulemin

has been good, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Steen with Hagman and Grabs.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah…I am loathe to break up that line though because who else speaks Russian that Kulemin could play with?

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Truth is there. And Antro proved earlier on this season that he’s much, much better on the wing, so moving him back to centre is a no go.

I guess replacing Stajan is the only way to get Steen on the top two lines. But how the hell do you replace Stajan right now?

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ron Wilson is a maverick. He can say that Pontrapov got Stajan going and it’s time that he carry his own line and that they work on Steen.

Plus, poor Moore is marooned on the fourth line and he deserves better too.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Stajan-Steen-White looked really good for a game in the pre-season in Detroit. I’d like to see that as a 3rd line combo.

by general borschevsky on Nov 18, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ron Wilson is an upgrade on a Pinto?

I always thought of him as more of a Gran Torino.

With the Starsky and Hutch stripe.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Nov 18, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Wilson is waiting for Steen to really step up? I dunno.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Nov 18, 2008 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Two Words...

Checking Forward.

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we all have higher aspirations for Steen than that.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't...

and I’m OK with that.

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like that idea! Maybe the point of giving Stajan soviet Bloc and steen…other dudes was the whole idea of “put better people with not so better people so they all help each other.” It was the same strategy that teachers used to use to pair me with dumb kids. It hardly ever worked as well as they hoped.

/rant and crazy theory

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Nov 18, 2008 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LD got benched in fourth grade for not scoring enough during crayon time.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Nov 18, 2008 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Her colouring confidence was at an all-time low. She couldn’t stay in the lines and shit…

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They tried holding her back a grade but it didn’t work…

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As soon as they waived her she became a leading colorer in the National Crayon League.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Nov 18, 2008 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s right, you sumbitches, how do you like me now!?

Actually, I was the smart kid who kept getting stuck with dumb kids t help them out, which usually meant me doing all the work.

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Nov 18, 2008 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, I was the smart kid who kept getting stuck with dumb kids to help them out, which usually meant me doing all the work.

Mats?

Down Goes Brown - Because it's technically possible that things may get better before we all die.

by Down Goes Brown on Nov 18, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well, I’m not tall and Swedish but I suppose you could make that connection

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Nov 18, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't figure it out

we need to put Steen on Milk cartons or something

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Nov 18, 2008 9:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Isn’t it possible that he’s just not very good?

If you didn’t know he was a first round pick, has he really shown anything in Toronto that suggests he’s an above average player? At least for longer than a game or two at a time?

Down Goes Brown - Because it's technically possible that things may get better before we all die.

by Down Goes Brown on Nov 18, 2008 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My thought exactly...

I like what he can do on a checking line. I’ve never seen anything resembling top six scoring in the guy. He uses his speed well, he’s defensively sound, and will throw the occasional body check in there as well…

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

18 goals 27 assists for 45 points in his rookie year. Yes, he played with Mats but that shows he has offensive skills.

And judging from last night, the Leafs need a finisher on their other top line. Too many set-up men so why not give Steener a run.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Steen’s definitely not a finisher.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Nov 18, 2008 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He has a pretty good wrist shot, a decent release speed-wise, and he skates really well. There is literally nothing to lose in putting him back into an offensive situation after two full seasons of making him a checking forward.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

I thought his rookie year was pretty damn impressive. I think he was on par with guys like Mike Richards and Jeff Carter when it came to points.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He was better than them.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

See that type of shit breaks my heart.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

me too

He’s being wasted.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There’s no doubt he has skill. He’s a guy that makes a play every now and then where you just say “wow, how did he even think of doing that”. It might not even be a goal, but maybe a little tip pass that just makes you sit up. And then he has a good game with a few points and you say “this guy is for real”.

Next thing you know it’s three weeks later and he’s showing up on a graphic next to the words “0 points in 8 games”. And this happens over and over again.

Down Goes Brown - Because it's technically possible that things may get better before we all die.

by Down Goes Brown on Nov 18, 2008 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

He makes those plays and then the reality of his deployment strikes him down again.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OK...

I’ll bite. Who are these incredibly gifted forwards that Richards and Carter have been playing with?

Forgive me, but it’s one thing to say he doesn’t have the linemates to put up the points. I don’t recall either of those two having anyone particularily incredible to play with either. They were bumped from top minutes when Forsberg signed on, and again with Briere. They don’t play with Gagne, or even each other. They create points regardless. Steen hasn’t. Some of that is due to the roll he’s playing, and some of it is because, he can’t create the opportunities like Carter and Richards can…

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s not always about linemates.

All we’re saying is that we want Steen to play. If you put him in the first two lines, you’re putting him in a position to succeed offensively.

No one is complaining about his defensive/checking forward ways. He’s a great penalty killer and a great forechecker. But he’s a young player. Why are we capping him at only that, when we know that he’s able to put up some decent offensive numbers?

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you'll agree...

playing with Mats, and playing with Ponis and Antro are not the same.

Besides, why would you move Stajan out of a line that obviously works? Why would you move Kulemin out of a line that obviosuly works? Because you like Steen?

I could care less what his points are. Is he getting the job done that he’s been given? Yes, then great. No, then do better.

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Stajan would disagree with you re: your first point. Playing with Antro and Poni has been the best thing to happen to Stajan in his entire life.

And it’s not because I “like” Steen. It’s because Steen has potential. Because Steen is being paid a lot of money to NOT be on the fourth line.

Let’s leave those two lines we’ve mentioned alone. Blake played 18 minutes last night. White played 17. How about Steen plays 17 or 18, and one of those two plays 10? That’s my point, dude.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

SO...

a line that wasn’t “going” until Stajan played with them after his benching, should get broken up because Steen makes more money? I’m ignoring the “potential” argument, because, it’s quite obvious, Stajan has that potential as well.

as far as minutes goes, someone has to suffer. I’m ok with White playing the minutes he has. He deserves them. He’s been putting up points, regardless of who his linemantes are, which have been pretty mush our 3rd and 4th liners. Same guys Steen’s been playing with…

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Again, like I said, let’s leave the first two lines alone. PPP and I both agreed that it’s tough to break ’em right now.

And while White has been great, I think Steen should be getting those type of minutes instead of him, and Blake.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

White definitely deserves more time and I like that Wilson said he was going to start using him on the 5-on-3s to take advantage of the fact that he’s a right-handed shot.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

One moment please

I am currently working on your request…

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm breathless with anticipation

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is becoming a fanpost...

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

weeeeeeeeeeeee

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

bring it!

I’m trying to understand why no one is OK with us trying to develop a top notch shut down checking forward…

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Checking forwards are the guys who can’t score. And who have proven time and time again that they are not capable of offensive numbers. So they change their game and become defensive, shutdown guys.

Steen doesn’t have to be that guy. Not that there’s anything wrong with that type of guy. But there’s a ton of Boyd Devereux’s and Dominic Moore’s out there, who can be used in more defensive roles. Guys like Steen, drafted in the first round who put up 45 points in their rookie year, they’re looked to to provide scoring.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s not a problem with developing a shut down checking forward it’s a problem with not fully evaluating each player and that includes putting Steen in a offensive situation for a consistent run for the first time in a couple of seasons.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Steen

There’s something wrong here. 2005-6: 27 assists; 2006-7: 20 assists; 2007-8: 27 assists.

He needs to get more then 25 assists this year or this season is a setback. So far he’s on pace for 8 assists.

by general borschevsky on Nov 18, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

steen

looking at those numbers, he gives me a sad

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Nov 18, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He’s sort of been typecast…

That doesn’t mean he can’t be an offensive player.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Looking forward to the fanshot...

I’ve got a flight to catch back to Toronto.

Blurr, we’ll continue our debate in the afternoon.

Toodles, y’all.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Nov 18, 2008 10:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Steen should play where he can most help the team. There may be a ton of Boyds and Dominics etc..out there , but how many Mike Pecas or Bob Gaineys. Just because he was once thought of as a top 6 scoring forward (if those who drafted him really thought that), there is no reason he must continue to play this role if he can make himself useful otherwise. I don’t think we are having a problem scoring goals, and if we are, we have the slavic beanpoles+Stajan line. Steen can even play goal if he’s good at it.

by blue with age on Nov 18, 2008 11:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ok

Here is my reply with a lot less facts that I would have liked because I am at work.

Basically, my answer to why break good lines up and why not let him develop into a checking forward is why pigeonhole him now? He’s already done over two years service as a checking forward and this year is about evaluating talent. Why not see if Moore can keep being Devereaux and if Stajan can carry his own line and if Steen can score like I think most of us think he can.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 11:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

i don't see...

playing on a line with Mats as “checking line service.” he played well with blake and stajan, and as a checking line (which is what blake should be, a checker who agitates and puts up some points) they could use their speed to create a really aggressive forecheck. Problem is, they were all playing second line minutes last year…

Stajan is proabably glued to the first line now, so sub Mitchell in his place, and we’ve got the makings of an awesome 3rd line. Or, dump Blake in the minors if he acts up again and put White in his place. You lose the agitator piece, but the speed would still be top flight.

but then, we go back to your pigeonhole arguement. Mitchell’s proven he can put up points with the Marlies, so why are they letting him languish on the 3rd and 4th lines…?

What to do, what to do…

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i don’t see playing on a line with Mats as "checking line service."

Exactly, he played with Mats and put up 45 points his first year in the league.

Problem is, they were all playing second line minutes last year…

Steen wasn’t during that long stretch when he was playing with Devereaux on a checking line. But the big point is that he wasn’t playing on the powerplay where his passing and skills on the puck could help and can be exploited.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What to do, what to do…

Experiment. That’s basically my point.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

see my logic

in your post.

it’s irrefutable. primarily because i just used that big word…

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Refuted

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 18, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re-refuted(?)

Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Nov 18, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

NEW maple leafs chat

see here

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Nov 18, 2008 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

A little about the Tosk

So, we’ve all realized that maybe he’s not as good as we thought he was going to be. I’ve been kind of quietly hating on him for a few weeks right now, but after reading this I am not so worried. Wilson and our awesome new goalie coach has an idea of what ailing our netminder. Raycrap had been working with McKichan (I think and don’t know how to spell his name) and they couldn’t figure out what was wrong (I’ll tell you: Raycroft sucks) I’ll be worried in a month if we see no improvement. Right now, he’s just mechanically poor

"Holy crip!! He's a CRAPPLE!!!"

by MapleLeafs85 on Nov 18, 2008 1:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

pulling our collective goalies

Like most goalies who have made it to this level, apart from truly exceptional, technical difficulties are often a metaphor for my head/confidence/marriage/insert distraction here is all fucked up. On a positive note, I think that the coach has a real project here, but happily is already familiar with the nature of the beast. I am still wondering though why Wilson gave his best impression of the roadrunner in exiting at the end of the game, then became perfectly zen in his post game comments.

by blue with age on Nov 18, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this is very true

albeit whether there is some psychological block right now in Vesa’s head, if he can get the actual physical aspect of positioning into his muscle memory, then regardless of whether his mental state is fragile at this point in time, he will slowly become the goaltender of the second half of last year. Goalies are like closers in baseball, the mental aspect is huge, but getting that one pitch over the plate after bouncing it 10x in a row is HUGE in the rebuilding process (ala Kerry Wood)

"Holy crip!! He's a CRAPPLE!!!"

by MapleLeafs85 on Nov 18, 2008 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs