Fire Howard Berger
TSM has upped the ante with Working Class Howard. Sign his petition!
over 3 years ago
PPP
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Signed!
Viva La Revolution!
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
Not signing
For two reasons:
1. WCH provides about half the content of Cox Bloc.
2. I don’t advocate firing Howard. What I want (and I think I speak for Till as well) is Berger to do a better job. I don’t like the idea of getting someone fired. The guy has a family.
And there are kids with cancer!
Yeah, Kim speaks for me too. Firing him is not what I want, I want some decent coverage. I do think he has it in him. Also, I’m not a big fan of internet petitions.
there is no indvidual thought allowed in the mob...
jk.
Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Nov 3, 2008 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
As someone who is a part of the rat-race
I don’t agree with the sentiment that someone shouldn’t be fired from their job because they have a family.
Berger is a journalist, his job is to provide coverage and information about sports and the Leafs, I am quite confident that attacking a fan base is not part of his job description and not what he was hired to do.
If someone does not do their job correctly or competently, they are to be removed from that position. I could care less that he has a family, it doesn’t give him a free pass or ticket to do whatever the hell he wants.
Bottom line is, Berger has failed at his job, and he has to suffer the consequences.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
Blog v. Radio
While Berger appears to be a competent radio newsman, it is his blog that seems to get him in trouble. Maybe they could just take his blog away from him?
Having not seen Berger’s job description, I can’t comment as to what his job description is. I imagine that the blog has different objectives than his radio reports. His infamous “Leafs Fans are Losers” blog had more than 700 comments, and I can only imagine how many hits. Regardless of the overwhelming negativity of the comments, or if 3 out of 4 people who read the post hated it, it still means money for advertisers. That makes employers happy.
Berger sucks. His blog is terrible, and he uses it to bait Leafs fans. As readers we can either:
a). Not read it.
b). Start a blog that rips him a new one every time he writes something stupid.
c). Start a petition to have him fired.
I’m aware that Till and I seem to be Mensheviks here, while the Bolsheviks sign away at the petition (good to use terms that WCH can understand). I have no problem with anyone else signing the petition. But we are talking about employment here, and while saying he has a family is a cliche, it is true.
Berger has a blog that he uses to express his opinion. Most of us hate those opinions, and use our own blogs to refute his claims. I just don’t understand how we can ask to have him fired because his opinion differs from ours. If he was using his radio segments to voice those opinions, then there might be a case. Until then, I’m happy to let him express his opinions and then rip him for them on our own blogs.
Sorry for the rambling post. I’m trying to type this while half-listening to a conference call.
I don’t think getting him fired will solve anything, what I do think would be just would at least be an apology to Leaf fans.
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 3, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I don’t actually think he’s going to get fired, but I want to be part of a voice that answered back saying his BS-ramblings will not be tolerated.
He can express his opinions all he wants but there are consequences when you attack someone or a group of people without reasonable justification. I don’t give two shits if someone doesn’t like me, I’m more then happy to leave them alone, but if they walked up to me one day and suddenly punched me in the face for no reason I’m not going to just walk away.
I don’t know, I know he’s not going to get fired, and honestly I don’t care about that, if it happens great, if not whatevers, I just don’t like walking away as I don’t believe in passive-protesting.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
Mensheviks unite!
You said what I said below, just more eloquently, which really pisses me off, because I concentrated on mine, while you’re multitasking ;) This is why you have a blog and I write FIST PUMP! a lot.
Anyway, what you said!
Two for one
Winkle: I know what you are saying. Berger’s antics piss me off as much as Cox’s, but I don’t think we are being passive. There are countless blog posts written about Berger every week, and his comments are filled with people vehemntly disagreeing with him. I don’t feel comfortable in actively seeking to get him fired. Others do. We’ll have to agree to disagree.
clark4calder: I was going to say the same thing about your comment.
I view WCH like I do Sean Hannity or Lou Dobbs: a sad cartoon designed to peddle outrage rather than facts. I’ve learned to deal with it.
I respect your stance Kim
I just prefer a more in-your-face solution :)
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
Fire Kim Jorn
Good thing your boss can’t identify you ;)
Sure, we should do all of that too (not read, not comment, etc) but why not make it clear that we’re really, really unhappy?
There is no way that Berger gets fired but just because he won’t doesn’t mean that we, as consumers, shouldn’t articulate our discontent.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Nov 3, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
If Berger
Wants to attack the Leafs fan base, he is free to do so, but it should be done in a more civilized and articulated manner, if he wrote a real article with real arguments and points to back up the validity of his reasoning, then whatever, I would be annoyed but not outright pissed.
Just because its the interwebs doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be standard.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
Agree
100%. I think that “civilized and articulate” is what we are all looking for in this coverage. We all acknowledge that there are lots of things to criticize about the Leafs, but what bothers us is the way the Mittenstringers go about it.
I just think we have different views on how to get to the same goal.
Attack Ads
I feel like I’m coming across as soft on Berger…
But really PPP, I’m not saying we shouldn’t articulate our discontent. We do it almost every day here and at the Bloc and DGB and TSM and so many other sites. I think we make it clear that we are very unhappy. Maybe it isn’t getting through, but I don’t think we can dictate the opinions of the mittenstringers.
Berger is an extreme case in that he has really crossed a line with his insults to the fans, but it gives me a weird feeling to think that we should be dictating what these guys are allowed to say. Once Berger is gone, do we go after Cox? Simmons? Toth? Once we’re rid of them, we’ll not only have nothing to write about at Cox Bloc, but we’ll be in danger of turning the the Toronto sports media scene into something much worse:
Or you could say
You’re that little nagging but only reasonable voice in an angry torch-wielding mob.
I sure as isn’t, but in my defence the daily-GTA-commute has made me extremely angry at the world and everyone in it.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
to quote an Army Buddy of mine
Peace is boring
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 3, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
I hear you Tacitus Jorn
solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant
We would create a desert and call it peace.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Nov 3, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
There’s someone else with a family who’s a better writer than WCH who can’t write about the Leafs.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Good point. Maybe Berger will just have to watch his Cowboys on TV instead of flying to Dallas and getting a ticket at the 50 yard line.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Nov 3, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Oddly enough...
Mike Brophy writes a fairly unbiased blurb on the Leasf so far over on Sportsnet. Not a hint of 1967 or plan the parade anywhere..
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/11/03/brophy_canadian_watch/
Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Nov 3, 2008 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
No fire. Howard ain’t gettin’ a vacation out of me.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior"
Good Point
Make Howard work more…just not on the Leafs.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Nov 3, 2008 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
Signed
because a person who rubs their profession in your face as a means of antagonism and shame deserves what he gets. Family or not, he shouldn’t have made it personal to begin with…
Anybody throws me against the boards I'm gonna piss all over myself.
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Nov 3, 2008 1:19 PM EST reply actions
Not signing
I hate Howie’s work as much as everyone here, and I can’t tell you how many times he has made my blood boil with his idiotic, lazy approach.
But, I don’t advocate firing someone, even if I happen to find his viewpoint particularly offensive to me.
I’m working really hard to just say no to Howie. I’m not listening to his reports on the Fan. I’m not visiting or commenting on HockeyBuzz. Any Howie pearls I might collect are going to be strictly through the brilliant deconstructions of the CoxBlockers, PPP, DGB, and everyone else in the Barilkosphere who make me proud to be a Leaf fan.
Whether or not he has a family has no bearing on the situation. I think everyone is entitled to a voice, and I think Rogers is entitled to employ him as they see fit. I think it’s up to us to be enlightened and take him for what he is: irrelevant, and good for a right verbal beating.
-C4C
Yeah
And it’s the Fan’s right to ignore us but if a restaurant was feeding you rotten food would you just stop eating there or would you also tell all of your friends as well as anyone that might have the ability to do something about the crooked restauranteur?
Howie can write whatever he wants but it doesn’t mean that we have to listen/read it or suffer having it sully the public discourse.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Nov 3, 2008 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Definitely
I stop eating there, and I tell everyone I know not to eat there. I don’t think any of us are being silent. And we are telling all our friends (at least, the ones who like hockey and have a clue who Howard Berger is).
I guess I’m in favour of a “Make Howard Berger Stop Baiting Leaf Fans” petition. Or perhaps a “Force Howard Berger to Stop Sucking” petition. I sign those every day of the week and twice on Sunday (is that legal? If so, I’m in.)
I just hate to see a group of right-thinking, clear-minded folk call for the firing of someone because he offends our sensibilities. And frankly, don’t we have the most fun and come together as a group more when he writes something crazytown?
One thing though
Berger, Cox and their ilk generally attack the Leafs as a team or individual players, but for the most part they have left the fan base out of it. This is different because it’s a direct attack on the fan base, hence why so many are taking it personally.
Does that mean our reaction is correct? I don’t know, but it explains the more-then-usual frenzied response.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
I think they’ve been taking shots at the fans for some time now, this was just the most blatant and direct example of it. Believe me, I’m taking it personally too, and I’m seeing red.
I just want to make sure we’re not all drinking the angry kool aid, and that we’re cutting it with a bit of reasonable kool aid.
That was lame, and I apologize ;)
Why all this bad mouthing kool-aid? Koolaid is delicious and refreshing!
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 3, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
OHHHH YEAHHHHHH!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z4uIGZ5l-w
Amazing – I didn’t notice, but the Koolaid man was at the Leafs-Canes game last night. Notice, in particular the clip of Kerry Fraser that wasn’t available on the Leafs TV feed.
Sorry
For some reason, the last two characters of the URL I posted are getting truncated from the link.
Kinda kills the funny.
I’m with you. I don’t want the guy fired. Or, more accurately, I don’t want him fired because Leaf fans are mad at him. If they fire him for being cliched and predictable and unentertaining, or because trying to publically go to war against your customers in this day and age is absolutely ridiculous then fine.
But making readers angry is part of a journalists job. It’s not a firing offence on it’s own.
Down Goes Brown - Because it's technically possible that things may get better before we all die.
by Down Goes Brown on Nov 3, 2008 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I am making a list for when the real revolution comes…
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Nov 3, 2008 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Nothing new
I think that Berger and Cox have made a habit of insulting the fans, but usually it is just one line about “kool-aid drinkers” in a column. Bergers recent screed was something new, in that it was a full-on entire post about the fans. We may also be reaching a critical mass where people have finally had enough of the little digs and cheapshots.
To paraphrase Eric Cartman: “Damn right we’re pissed off.”
And
If we are pissed off, we respond in kind – by ripping their bullshit to shreds. That’s how you do it in an exchange of ideas.
That’s why the original call to action in last week’s open letter was the right call. People should come to the Barilkosphere, to read opinion/comment/humour done better. If Berger and Cox want their unquestioned dominance back, step your game up. Firings aren’t necessary.
Did the open letter get forwarded to any media? Seeing as media outlets sometimes like to bash other media outlets, there could be some play there on a slow news day ;)
Bill Houston was all over Berger for the Avery thing IIRC…
Just spitballing…
Yes
I believe that the letter was forwarded to some select media types. Not sure what the response was.
Well, like I said, the reality, and I think everyone realizes this, is that, as MF37 noted below, no one will get fired.
Like the petitions he’s referenced they just serve to put the powers that be on notice that there could be a critical mass of people that are tired of his schtick. Berger can be entitled to his opinions all that he wants but if his schtick tires out consumers and they no longer want to touch anything associated with him then the business is free to decide that it’s in their best interests to stop paying Berger to drive away customers.
Does he get muzzled? Only in the sense that he loses his access which was provided based on his ability to draw in customers. He could start posting his blog thoughts on an actual blog and then we could see whether the traffic came because of his writing or the access that he received.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Nov 3, 2008 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'm scared to sign
The internet is a very powerful tool, I fear this petition could have the same results as these very powerful sites:
www.firebettman.com
www.firerichardpeddie.ca
www.firericcardi.blogspot.com
www.petitionspot.com/petitions/firemccarver
www.thepetitionsite.com/1/fire-bowden
www.phillyscoop.com/2008/10/08/the-fire-andy-reid-petitionwhilethephilliescontinu/
A life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...http://bitterleaf.blogspot.com
I must admit...
…that I did sign one of those a few years ago. It was to get Kerry Fraser canned.
This might seem hypocritical after all my high and mighty talk about people having families and not deserving to get fired…but he was STARING RIGHT AT GRETZKY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. There is no way he didn’t see the high-stick…
HAHAHAHAHA
That’s another case where incompetence should get punished. Good for you for admitting that you like to have your cake and eat it too. We never would have known otherwise :)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Nov 3, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...me too
So much for being rational. Fraser should have been FIRE-IRE-IRED for that one.
Rational voice: “But come on, C4C, everyone deserves a voice, and a job, even if they are incompetent”
Out-for-blood voice: “Shut up, you Marxist freak. Fire his ass!”
Yeah, I hear voices in my head. What of it?
Join the club
right now mine is saying ‘soccer time!’ so I am out of here.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Nov 3, 2008 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Berger has seen it
His post tonight is, I believe, an attempt (FAIL) to sarcastically thank everyone for the attention.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior"
Oh brother. Well, that’s one way to deal with people, I guess…
by clark4calder on Nov 3, 2008 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Mr. Berger would like a word please
YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior"
I think
I just failed to observe my own “no ad hominem attacks” rule. Whatever. I hate trolls, though, and that’s what Howard’s doing.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior"
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