The Omen Struggles With Facts

Like a Manchester United fan that thinks soccer started in 1992 or a Chelsea fan whose memory only extends to 2005 Damien Cox decided to ignore NHL history.

Like those that ignore history, he fell victim to proper fact-checking. Of course, rather than admit that he had screwed up he tries to grab as many people as possible in order to throw them under the bus.

Hint: when talking about NHL history remember that the league started in 1917 and not 1945.

7 months ago PPP Comment 77 comments 0 recs |

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Read More: brian burke, damien cox, toronto media

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I always thought

That while it is generally accepted that the league started in 1917, the reality of when the NHL begun was more ambiguous but I digress.

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Dec 1, 2008 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'll give him this much...

the basic premise of his argument (it’s hard for a GM to switch teams and win another cup) is correct. Unfortunately, he said it was impossible and never been done, meaning…

he’s been wrong before, and he’ll be wrong again.

Day 2 of year 1 AB, sunshine and roses. Can’t wait for the game tonight!

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 1, 2008 11:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Statistically speaking

Just because its a rarity does not mean it won’t happen. Hell even something with a 1% probability of occurring can still happen. I learned that the hard way in Fallout 3 when I run up to someone with a shot gun, the game tells me I have a 95% chance of blasting their heads off from point blank but I have someone missed more then once.

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Dec 1, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sometimes I imagine that the supermutants are Senator’s in disguise…it makes the game even more fun!

by Kobra29 on Dec 1, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i ♥ Fallout 3

and yes, the head shots are super wicked awesome…

but you basically are backing up my point. all i’m saying is that, if elCox had changed his argument from never gonna happen to really super hard to pull of again, i’d say he was right.

it’s one thing that he was wrong, but it really doesn’t change the fact that in almost 100 years of league play, only one GM’s pulled it off…

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 1, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Was not

trying to disprove your point

I’m just trying desperately to sound intelligent

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Dec 1, 2008 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just out of interest, PPP – is bad fact checking worse or better than making lazy generalizations?

Multiple-entendre!

by Mattblack on Dec 1, 2008 11:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

It’s tough to choose. They are just two different pages out of the “Bad Writer’s Handbook” although I would say that the chapter titled “Facts: Screw ’em” comes first so maybe that makes it more important/worse.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 1, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It only comes first by alphabetical order though! I’ll have to hone my bad writing skills….

Multiple-entendre!

by Mattblack on Dec 1, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As lazy fact-checking goes, this wasn’t even that bad.

Off the top of my head, in the past week I’ve seen Toronto media stars claim that:
- Wendel’s fight with McSorley was in game six of the Kings series
- Wendel victim Bruce Bell was a member of the Nordiques
- The Minnesota Wild are in their seventh season (this was a Cox special)

That’s only the stuff that any semi-awake Leaf fan knows is wrong. Imagine all the other stuff that slips by every day.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 1, 2008 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice

Think of all of the stuff that you kind of know isn’t quite right but you don’t look up to see how wrong it is.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 1, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I make lazy generalizations all the time, but my fact checking is superb.

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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Damien Cox is right!

Cox has a great point: Only one GM has ever won a Cup with one team, then won again with another team.

Some people would claim this is because the sample size of GMs who win a Cup is small (after all, only one guy can do it every year), and the sample size of GMs who win a Cup and then move to another team is even smaller.

I say, screw sample size. I choose sweeping generalities.

So in that spirit, I’d like to share the following equally important observation: Only one player has ever won a Conn Smythe with one team, then won it again with another team.

Clearly, following Cox’s logic, this means that the Leafs must avoid at all costs acquiring players like Henrik Zetterberg, Scott Niedermayer, Nicklas Lidstrom or Brad Richards. All of these guys might be incredibly good players, but each has already used up their one win, just like Burke has.

Furthermore, no player has ever won a Conn Smythe with one team as a player, and then won a Cup with another team as part of the front office. I’ll say that again: nobody, in the entire history of hockey! That’s literally dozens of season!

Clearly, this means the Leafs must immediately fire Joe Nieuwendyk. Sorry, Joe, the indisputable evidence of tiny, tiny sample size has revealed your incompetence.

Also, only one family (the Richards) have ever had a player score a Cup-winning goal, and then had his brother go onto win a Cup of his own. So that means the Leafs must get rid of Tomas Kaberle before they will ever win a cup. I suggest putting him on waivers right now.

Also, no player, ever, in the entire history of hockey, has scored a Cup-winning goal and then had a son who was a Cup-winning GM. WHY DIDN’T COX TELL US THIS??? We could have avoided hiring John Ferguson Jr!

Keep up the good work, Damien. There is much to be learned from cherry-picking meaningless facts out of small sample sizes.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 1, 2008 11:26 AM EST reply actions 6 recs

DBG demostrates

Why sarcasm is the greatest invention in the history of human civilization

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Dec 1, 2008 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

that was fantastic.

That’s a post right there DGB.

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by eyebleaf on Dec 1, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Everyone should rec that comment. Hilarious.

Poor Niewendyk.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 1, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i dunno...

it doesn’t change the fact that it’s hard to do.

yes, i know, that in and of itself is not really news worthy, nor an earth shattering opinion. “Really, the toughest trophy to win in all of pro sports, it’s hard to win multiple times as a GM? Shocking, whoda thunk!”

besides, if we count over the 90 years of nhl hockey, the number of GMs, the pool isn’t all that small.

i know i’m treading on thin ice here, almost kinda sorta defending coxarooney, so i don’t expect anyone agreeing with me. I’m just saying, if you believe his follow up post here (where he says he meant it’s hard to do) then, ya, no shit sherlock, it’s hard to do…

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 1, 2008 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, that’s exactly it. If his point is that there’s some sort of relationship between winning in the past and winning again, then there’s nothing there that can’t be explained by small sample size. If his point is just that it’s hard to do, period, then his point is so obvious that it isn’t worth making.

Also, I’ve always hated the idea that the Cup is the hardest trophy to win in all of sports. We get this in Ottawa all the time. Maybe in terms of physical toll, sure, but since all four leagues are now roughly the same size, it’s really no harder to win in one sport than any other.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 1, 2008 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the physical toll...

is preceisely what makes it a tough trophy to win. i like to tell people that hockey is rugby on ice, and that, instead of a scrum, everyone’s moving at about 35 miles an hour, and they’re all trying to hit you, and that the puck is moving at about 100 miles an hour, sometimes at about head height. oh yeah, and in the playoffs, the games are every other night, none of this week off crap we see in the NFL. and that the players have been known to play through pain, with broken ribs, wrists, ankles and more. they dive in front of those 100 mph slappers, sacrificing their bodies for that trophy. I’m sorry, but that doesn’t happen in the MLB (well, the whole "bloody sock thing was impressive, when you consider most pitchers go on the DL for hangnails…) the NFL or the NBA.

anywho, yes, the basic premise of his argument is sound. it’s hard to do. my basic point is the same as yours. it’s so obvious, why bother saying it?

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 1, 2008 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the physical toll… is preceisely what makes it a tough trophy to win

Well, not for GMs. For a GM (or coach, etc) it no harded to win in the NHL than anywhere else.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 1, 2008 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

meh...

with a hard salary cap, guaranteed contracts, revenue sharing, and Ryan Hollweg…?

The Yankees and Sox gladly spend over the cap and pay the penalty.
The NFL routinely cuts contracted players, with little to no financial repurcussions.
The NBA, well, i don’t pay much attention to basketball…I do know they don’t have anyone named Ryan Hollweg.

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 1, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This comment has now been posted over on Damien’s article at thestar.com as well.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 1, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sweet!

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Dec 1, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

why is this shit green

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was wondering that myself. I thought it was something you or PPP did.

If you guys don’t know……..

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Dec 1, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if a comment gets

rec’d 4 times, it tuns green

if it gets flagged as “inappropriate” 4 times, it turns read or somtheing

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone flag LD’s post so it turns red.

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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I tried

But you have to enter a reason for flagging her, and I’m just too damned lazy for that sorta thing.

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Dec 1, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I should be mad

but I kinda want to see what happens, just so long as SBN doesn’t ban me or something

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yay it’s red!

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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually it’s more of a feminine pink.

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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it didn;t change color yet

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did for me! It’s nice!

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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i see no red

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I see no red here….

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I deleted your “test” post.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Only Chemmy or I can ban but the flags on comments give us a good idea of who might need warning/banning.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 1, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I gotta come clean. I am f**k tank nation.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Dec 1, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

liar

you would have done more nonsencial .gifs

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

could they have gotten more nonsensical than his?

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Dec 1, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I meant

more as in numberwise, not to a greater degree

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

doh!

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Dec 1, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No way

after the 20 odd e-mails I went back and forth trying to explain why his shenanigans weren’t really shenanigans I won’t believe any of you were him unless you crafted a perfectly insane alter ego that can’t spell.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 1, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

they were eeevil shenanigans

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i spels gud

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 1, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh man

I fooled you good!

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Dec 1, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Does

That mean our love for each other is forbidden?

I smell the foundation of a good slash fic

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Dec 1, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nice

hawt blogger on blogger action

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

okie

i didn’t know that, and I still can’t see any colour change

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

MUAHAHAHA

DGB’s reason for flaggin the above comment:

Troll – Calls Tie Domi a loser

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 1, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

can people

flag comments you or Chemmy make?

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

But we’ll see it and then put their name on a list.

What kind of list? Flag us and find out.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 1, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

“fagging reason: troll—ate my bacon and needs to take a shower”

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well that’s an unfortunate time to miss an ‘l’

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 1, 2008 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

DAMMMIT

“reason for fLagging: inappropriate, made homophobic comments about the moderator, needs actual life”

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

BWAHAHAHAHA

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Dec 1, 2008 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. Two people flagged one of my posts closing a gameday thread and opening a new one as “spam”.

I know who you two are.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

FLAGGED

“Spam: Stuff Posing as Meat”

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

was one of them me?

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Dec 1, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it wasn't me

Chemmy.

I love you, man. And PPP too. And DGB too.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Dec 1, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They were actually both automatically flagged by our blogging software.

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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

really

weird

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently 5 links in a comment = spam. MF37 got flagged for a really good comment for the same thing the other day.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 1, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That MF37. He’s always up to no good.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team...

by eyebleaf on Dec 1, 2008 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

always

trying to sell us p-e-n-i-i-s enlargements and send money to Nigeria

Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing

by loser domi on Dec 1, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, the guy’s a prince (or maybe a king) and he’s got loads of money tied up in an account – all he’s asking is a little bit of assistance to access that big dough. Not only would you be helping a brother out – you’d also get a big pay day. I’m telling you this is legit.

(PPP/Chemmy – what the heck did I get flagged for?)

Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...

by mf37 on Dec 1, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This comment: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2008/11/3/652779/fire-howard-berger#9798899

It has more than five links so the blog automatically flags it as spam.

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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t worry about it though, it’s not like you hit 10 spam flags and get banned, the flags are just a way of bringing attention to things for PPP and I, and obviously we’re not going to ban regular, good commenters.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Noted, keep my ~~spam~~ legitmate business opportunities to a minimum four links.

Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...

by mf37 on Dec 1, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

unless...

you’re shilling those p-e-n-i-s pumps…it’s a gift for someone else. i certainly don’t need one.

stop laughing…

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 1, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There’s a great scam going around the UK right now. A German law firm is sending out letters demanding £500 be paid for the illegal downloading of gay porn. Apparently many folks are paying up rather than publicly dispute the charge.

Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...

by mf37 on Dec 1, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You sure that’s not an urban legend that got made up based on Lock Stock?

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by Chemmy on Dec 1, 2008 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's the link

and I hope I’m not flagged for this one:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/nov/28/internet-porn-bill-mistake

Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...

by mf37 on Dec 1, 2008 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahem

Let’s just say it’ll be a very threadbare Christmas in the Black household this year.

Multiple-entendre!

by Mattblack on Dec 2, 2008 6:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

my favourite part...

is where he had a feeling he was wrong but decided to forge ahead anyway, but just so we all know it, tells us how he thought he was wrong before he was actually wrong.

THE3TARDS

by Wendel's Moustache on Dec 1, 2008 12:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs