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Leaf of the Day - Dec 17, 2008 - Mats Sundin

Editor's Note: With a possible end in sight to the Mats Sundin Saga it looks like his card has come to the top of 1967ers' pile. I'll save the rest of the editorializing for when the announcement comes.

Dec 17, 2008 - Mats Sundin

Well, here we are again.

Another Leaf captain is about to wander off to another team under something less than ideal circumstances, continuing the trend that began with Keon.  The last captain to retire as captain was Ted Kennedy, who wanted to set a good example, so he did it twice.  Armstrong ceded the captaincy two years before finally calling it a career.

Now, to be fair, the Leafs have done a better job at mending fences of late, and Sittler, Gilmour and Clark were all brought back into the fold, the last two as players ending their careers.  Those were nice touches.  Even Keon came back.

Mats, I'm not so sure.  This one could be kind of ugly.

When Keon, Clark and Gilmour returned to Toronto for their first games with other teams, there were huge ovations.  Dave Keon potted a couple of goals and the place erupted.  I don't remember Sittler's return, though I can't imagine it was much different.

Mats could well be booed, though I hope he isn't.  Personally, I get that you can say you want to stay in a particular place, and then have things change later that make it impossible to return.  It doesn't mean that the original statement was false.  It was just true at the time, and is not so any longer.

Star-divide

I think people got a little greedy, too, with visions of the package that might have been had for him (we never got to find out what that might have been - the package for Kaberle was actually leaked, that was worse).  I think it's kind of callous to turn on a guy because he didn't want to leave town.  We tend to treat people like cattle.  He's an asset to be manipulated, rather than a person with an attachment to a place and a team and the contractual right to veto a move.  This isn't Vince Carter here, dogging his way out of town and crapping on folks on the way out.  The only thing Mats did was stick to his guns. 

Had it worked and the Leafs gone on the run he envisioned, he'd have been a hero.  As it turned out, there was the groin injury and the whole thing ended with a whimper.  There was no proper sendoff, no ovations, just a guy limping off the ice with a handful of games to go.  It's not the right way to end it.

The real kick-in-the-teeth teams are out of the picture, thankfully.  I have no real hate-on for the Rangers and Vancouver is kind of 'meh'.  I'm not convinced either will win a Cup with Mats and I'm not sure how a 38-year-old is going to perform having missed half the season, particularly since he's had groin/hip problems the past two years.  If he'd missed any more time, we'd be talking about him making a comeback, not just signing somewhere.

Funny that a number of players tried or made a comeback with the Rangers despite having no contact with them in their previous careers.  Lafleur, Geoffrion, Bobby Hull (it didn't work out), there's another who is escaping me.  And they complain about the Leafs being old.  Maybe it's only fair that the Rangers get Mats.  We got Brian Leetch and the Rangers have nothing to show for that deal, either.  We also got Conn Smythe from them, yet another story for another day.

My hope, in the end, is that when the time does come for #13 to be put in the rafters with the others, bygones will have become bygones and he'll get the cheers he's owed.  No more captains leaving on bad terms.  It's poor karma.

Good luck, Mats.  Go win something.


Sundin011ai5_medium

via img371.imageshack.us

1987-88      Nacka HK Jr.      Swe-Jr.                                                       
1987-88     Sweden     EJC-A     6     5     4     9     8                        
1988-89     Nacka HK     Sweden-2     25     10     8     18     18                        
1988-89     Sweden     EJC-A     6     6     2     8     14                        
1989-90     Djurgardens IF Stockholm     Sweden     34     10     8     18     16         8     7     0     7     4
1989-90     Sweden     WJC-A     7     5     2     7     6                        
1989-90     Sweden     WEC-A     4     0     0     0     0                        
1990-91     Quebec Nordiques     NHL     80     23     36     59     58     -24                    
1990-91     Sweden     EJC-A     10     7     5     12     12                        
1991-92     Sweden     Can-Cup     6     2     4     6     16                        
1991-92     Quebec Nordiques     NHL     80     33     43     76     103     -19                    
1991-92     Sweden     WC-A     8     2     6     8     8                        
1992-93     Quebec Nordiques     NHL     80     47     67     114     96     +21     6     3     1     4     6
1993-94     Quebec Nordiques     NHL     84     32     53     85     60     +1                    
1993-94     Sweden     WC-A     8     5     9     14     4                        
1994-95     Djurgardens IF Stockholm     Sweden     12     7     2     9     14                        
1994-95     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     47     23     24     47     14     -5     7     5     4     9     4
1995-96     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     76     33     50     83     46     +8     6     3     1     4     4

1996-97     Sweden     W-Cup     4     4     3     7     4                        
1996-97     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     82     41     53     94     59     +6                    
1997-98     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     82     33     41     74     49     -3                    

1997-98     Sweden     Olympics     4     3     0     3     4                        
1997-98     Sweden     WC-A     10     5     6     11     6                        
1998-99     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     82     31     52     83     58     +22     17     8     8     16     16
1999-00     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     73     32     41     73     46     +16     12     3     5     8     10
2000-01     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     82     28     46     74     76     +15     11     6     7     13     14

2000-01     Sweden     WC-A     2     0     1     1     2                        
2001-02     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     82     41     39     80     94     +6     8     2     5     7     4
2001-02     Sweden     Olympics     4     5     4     9     10                        
2002-03     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     75     37     35     72     58     +1     7     1     3     4     6
2002-03     Sweden     WC-A     7     6     4     10     10                        
2003-04     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     81     31     44     75     52     +11     9     4     5     9     8
2004-05     Sweden     W-Cup     4     1     5     6     0     +1                    
2004-05                                                    
2005-06     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     70     31     47     78     58     +7                    
2005-06     Sweden     Olympics     8     3     5     8     4                        
2006-07     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     75     27     49     76     62     -2                    
2007-08     Toronto Maple Leafs     NHL     74     32     46     78     76     +17                    

Leaf Totals     981    420    567    987    748    +99    77    32    38    70    66
NHL Totals     1305     555     766     1321     1065     +78    83     35     39     74     72

Swedish World All-Star Team (1991, 1992, 1994, 1997)
Canada Cup All-Star Team (1991)
WC-A All-Star Team (1992)
Named Best Forward at WC-A (1992)
World Cup All-Star Team (1996)
NHL Second All-Star Team (2002, 2004)
Played in NHL All-Star Game (1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004)

- Traded to Toronto by Quebec with Garth Butcher, Todd Warriner and Philadelphia's 1st round choice (previously acquired, later traded to Washington - Washington selected Nolan Baumgartner) in 1994 Entry Draft for Wendel Clark, Sylvain Lefebvre, Landon Wilson and Toronto's 1st round choice (Jeffrey Kealty) in 1994 Entry Draft, June 28, 1994.


the HHOF take on Mats:

Mats Sundin has gone on to become an ambassador for Swedish sport, unarguably one of the most popular Swedish sportsmen ever. But there was a time when Mats Sundin was banned from Swedish hockey. There was even a time when controversial Swedish Ice Hockey Association boss Rickard Fagerlund promised he'd see to it that Mats Sundin never again played in a blue and yellow jersey.

That was a decade and three World Championships ago. In 1991 in Helsinki, in 1992 in Prague and in 1998 in Zurich, Sundin led the proud Tre Kronor to gold medals in competition with the best the world could offer.

After winning the Swedish title with Djurgarden and competing successfully with Tre Kronor in the Bern World Championship, Sundin left for North America without further notice in the summer of 1990. At that point, he had become one of the all-time greats in Swedish hockey. Only two players besides Sundin have won three World Championships, Jonas Bergqvist of Leksand and the legendary Sven Tumba, a 1950s and 1960s star with Sundin's Djurgarden.

Mats Sundin and countryman Peter Forsberg are currently two of the dominant players on the world hockey stage. Since a very quick decision made when Sweden needed reinforcements for the 1991 championship team, Fagerlund has had no reason to regret his decision to let Sundin back into Swedish hockey. It was only a year earlier that the 19-year-old Sundin had "defected" from Djurgarden to try his luck with the Quebec Nordiques, the team that in 1989 chose Sundin as their first pick. Sundin became the first European ever to be chosen first overall in a draft.

Sundin left Sweden under a barrage of fire and slander from various hockey personalities. His decision was hard to fathom. But passions cooled and Mats Sundin was invited to return home in time to play with the national team in Ebo and Helsinki. Sundin was an instant smash hit when he single-handedly won the trophy for Sweden by scoring the most important goals of the tournament. He scored three goals in the game against archrival Finland (4-4) and then the decisive goal against Russia (2-1) in the finals. In all, he registered seven goals in the tournament.

He put in the same kind of performance in Prague in 1992. Accompanied by a team with 17 rookies among them Peter Forsberg, then a 17-year-old hockey wonderkind from MoDo Sundin played at his best. He scored a very important goal in the 2-0 game against Russia that propelled Sweden into the final game against Finland. Sweden won 5-2, securing its second World Championship trophy in two years.

And in Zurich in 1998 came the third trophy for Sundin, who was once again one of the most valuable players on the team.

After being traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs in 1994, the young Swede became a smashing success. In just one year he rose to stardom in a city well known for its taste for fine hockey and fighting spirit. He won the honor of being named the team's captain, the first foreign captain in the history of the Maple Leafs.

Since joining the Toronto Maple Leafs in 1994, Sundin has enjoyed a number of accomplishments while leading the club in scoring for each year except one. In 2002-03, he became the first Swedish born player to reach 1,000 points at the NHL level, and as of 2006-07 he has more career goals, assists and points than any other Swedish born NHL player.

In international compeition, Sundin is recognized as being one of the elite players in the hockey world. He has represented his homeland at 14 international competitions, has one Olympic gold medal, and won gold in three World Championships. Sundin has held the position of team captain for the national squad for the better part of the last decade.

Sundin012od0_medium

via img371.imageshack.us

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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Comments

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Canadiens Trades

McKenzie confirmed Grabovski, Higgins, and a first rounder for Mats.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 17, 2008 3:45 PM EST reply actions  

To me, that’s not a ton. Grabs has been good, but Higgins has done jack this season and the first would have been late. Better than having to pay the second plus the prospect for Grabs, but that doesn’t look like the motherlode everyone hoped for.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 17, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

considering...

that was for the rights to speak to him and sign him, given that at the time, we weren’t pursuing him, i’d say it was a huge win…

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 17, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure the rights to sign him was just Grabovski. The package mentioned above was actually at the trade deadline. Montreal would have to be really stupid to give up 2 players and a 1st round pick to talk to a guy a few days before they can normally.

by Darryl Sittler's 10 Pt Night on Dec 17, 2008 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s my understanding of it too.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 17, 2008 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

oh

I thought that was the deadline deal.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 17, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

the deadline deal was what you said, Grabs, Higgins and a 1st for Sundin.

by Darryl Sittler's 10 Pt Night on Dec 18, 2008 1:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Sittler

The Sundin thing seems like Groundhog Day in that we seem to be reliving thje Sittler departure. There was a lot fewer places to get your new at that time and the Sittler saga dragged on for a while, starting with his decision to tear the C off his sweater. I believe his first time back was not on a Saturday night, and so it was not televised. Plus, Philly was wearing those goofy one-piece suits at the time which may have obscured his presence on the ice

by blue with age on Dec 17, 2008 3:46 PM EST reply actions  

Ah yes

Those were always fun

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Dec 17, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

If Sundin wouldn’t waive his no trade clause to go to the Habs then I’m glad. I don’t care if they gave us back even more than the proposed deal, seeing Mats play for those fucks would have killed me.

I’m going to discard that he ever had interest in going to Montreal this year as a UFA. Who knows, maybe that was all speculation anyways.

Mats is a Leaf, but if he went to the Habs it would totally ruin that. He’d be dead to me. I can deal with him going to Vancouver or NY and people should cheer him louder than anyone when he comes back.

In conclusion, fuck the Habs.

by Darryl Sittler's 10 Pt Night on Dec 17, 2008 5:07 PM EST reply actions  

i like that thinking...

but try as some might, I can’t shake this feeling of getting screwed over. Mind changing reasoning and all…

anyhoo, i’ll never boo the guy, unless he somehow signs with the sens. other than that, i don’t care anymore…

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 17, 2008 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Booing captains is reserved for senator fans. They’re the experts.

by LeafFanInVan on Dec 17, 2008 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

this too shall pass.

Mats will go down as one of the greatest Leafs of all-time. The bitterness that some feel now will be be erased as the months turn into years.

by Darryl Sittler's 10 Pt Night on Dec 17, 2008 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, Mats Sundin may be going to a new team? Why hasn’t the media reported on this???

Nice writeup. I have one nitpick:

Personally, I get that you can say you want to stay in a particular place, and then have things change later that make it impossible to return. It doesn’t mean that the original statement was false. It was just true at the time, and is not so any longer.

Well, sort of…

If I say “My favorite flavor of ice cream is vanilla” and six months later I decide it’s chocolate instead, I changed my mind. Both statements may have been true at the time, like you said.

On the other hand, if I say “I will never ever eat chocolate ice cream”, and six months later you see me standing in a Baskin Robbins with a big half-eaten chocolate cone in my hand, that’s different. In that case, my original statement really was false. I may have meant it at the time, and it may have been true for a time, but it ended up being false. And if people took me at my word about it then I just might owe an explanation or two.

I hope Mats makes his announcement and then, at some point, explains the whole mess to Leaf fans. I know some people say “he owes you nothing”. Sorry, but he does. He owes an apology, or at least an honest explanation. Did he even mean what he said? If so, what changed? Does he still think he did the right thing, or does he wish he had a do-over?

If he’s the great leader we were all told he was, then he’ll offer at least that.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 17, 2008 8:22 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

ya!

what he said!

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 17, 2008 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

my take on it is this

I like my job and have no intention of leaving it. If someone asked me whether I was in it for the long haul, I’d tell them in no uncertain terms that I don’t want to go anywhere. But something could happen tomorrow that would make it impossible for me to stay. I have no idea what, but I’ve seen enough things change that you never know.

Hell, I went through three jobs in three and a half years. Didn’t expect to leave any of them. Left one of my own accord and two because the companies went bust. Today’s statement can easily be inoperative tomorrow.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 17, 2008 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

and...

your employer and co-workers would expect, and you’d be obliged, to offer an explanation on what happened to precipitate the change in attitude, no?

"You do dat, you go to da box, you know, uh, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know, and then you get free."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on Dec 17, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Would I?

Depending on what it is, I suppose. If it was something personal that I wasn’t about to air in public, then they’d have to live without it.

Remember too – Mats said about half a dozen times that he didn’t even know whether the Leafs wanted him back. Berger once reported that the vibe he was picking up was that Fletcher would be a really happy man if Sundin moved on. What all don’t we know here?

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 17, 2008 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough.

But what if your boss came to you, explained that it was indeed going to be impossible for you to stay, and that you could help the company and yourself by accepting a transfer to a similar (maybe even better) job.

You say no. It’s your right, but now your boss is screwed. The company is screwed.

Then, a few months later, you decide to quit and take the same job they wanted to transfer you to. Now it’s too late for the company to get any benefit from things, but you still make out just fine.

Think anyone might be a little ticked at you? Would “sorry guys, I just changed my mind” be a good enough explanation?

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 17, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

If it wasn’t, screw ’em.

They might be ticked – but if I’d signed on for less because they guaranteed I wouldn’t be laid off, what’s my responsibility at that time?

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 17, 2008 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I worked for a company that in the span of 18 months went from 375 employees to 45. Just before the final purge of 130 people, I was approached by one of the execs and asked whether I wanted to be part of the ‘new’ rebuilding company post-layoff. I said yes, mainly because we had a baby on the way and the last thing I needed was to be laid off three days before the birth.

So I stayed. And it turns out that I’m now an orphan. My entire department is gone. Nobody left knows me or has anything for me to do. I spend the next three months doing work that they could have paid some co-op 10 bucks an hour to do.

Three months later, the company cut down to 25 and I took my package and moved on.

In the interim, had a job come up, am I in my rights to take it?

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 17, 2008 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

As an afterthought, a couple years back I ran into one of them. Hey, he says, you should come back, they’d love to have you again.

I just smiled politely.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 18, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Obviously the whole “Mats Sundin as cubicle employee” metaphor only goes so far.

But I still argue that you can’t take the “Mats said no, then he changed his mind” approach without acknowledging the critical event that happened in between: that the situation changed from “Leafs get something in return” to “Leafs get nothing”. That’s a pretty big factor, given that he ended up completely adopting the Leafs position (that it was time for him to move on), just a few months too late.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 18, 2008 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

The other thing that happened in between that can’t be forgotten is the whole “Let’s pressure Mats through the media” aspect of it. A request that really should have been played out behind closed doors was played out instead in the press.

The cubicle analogy would be if the manager then went to all the company and announced that they couldn’t do what they wanted to do because you wouldn’t agree to move. In the meantime, they also do what they can to break up the team you worked with.

Then, when your contract comes up for renewal, you say, “Hmm – maybe not.”

I think loyalty has to go both ways. They wanted Mats to take one for the team, but rather than appealing to some sense of nobility, they went instead for the public pressure route. Who knows how that impacted things?

Now, they may well have intended to do everything privately and then only put the thumbscrews on when he balked. Can’t say without insider information, and only Mats and Cliff have it.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 18, 2008 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

The other thing that happened in between that can’t be forgotten is the whole "Let’s pressure Mats through the media" aspect of it. A request that really should have been played out behind closed doors was played out instead in the press.

Was it?

I mean, everyone knew that the Leafs would be looking to trade him. That was just basic common sense. Nobody had to leak that, anybody who was paying attention could figure out what was going on.

Beyond that, I don’t remember any sort of public pressure from Cliff or anyone else. If anything, Fletcher tried to downplay everything. If anything, he’s been criticized for not taking a harder line (which he eventually did do in the summer).

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 18, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Dunno

I read it the other way. I thought a lot of pressure was brought to bear that Cliff could have done a lot better job of defusing, had he been interested in doing so.

I thought they hung him out to dry.

Perceptions….

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 18, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Pressure?

Everyone and their mother knew what the score was with Sundin. Fletcher said he was keeping Mats’ abreast of his plans and would only bring him trade proposals from teams that he indicated would interest him.

It wasn’t exactly like Fletcher stood up and said “Mats has a unique opportunity to add to his already impressive legacy with the Leafs. His waiving of the no-trade clause in his contract could play a massive part in the Leafs’ future. Of course, it is all up to him but if he is not sure if he is going to continue his career then accepting a trade would be a boon to a team that has always been good to him and a fanbase that has supported him throughout his career.”

Now THAT is pressure.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 18, 2008 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, the score was that he didn’t want to go.

More later. Must head.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 18, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

It wasn’t exactly like Fletcher stood up and said "Mats has a unique opportunity to add to his already impressive legacy with the Leafs. His waiving of the no-trade clause in his contract could play a massive part in the Leafs’ future. Of course, it is all up to him but if he is not sure if he is going to continue his career then accepting a trade would be a boon to a team that has always been good to him and a fanbase that has supported him throughout his career."

No exactly like that, but that was the implication more often than not and Fletch did nothing to defuse it. You can argue that it wasn’t his job to defuse it. I think it was.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 18, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it was Fletcher’s job to do what was best for the Leafs, not necessarily what was best for Mats Sundin’s feelings. In this case, it was obvious that the best move for the team was to explore a trade.

The media knew it, and they reported it. Short of outright lying (which wouldn’t have fooled anyone), I’m not sure what Fletcher could have done.

We often hear Sundin defended with claims along the lines of “he had a contractual right to refuse to be traded”. Fine. But there’s nothing in a no-trade clause that says your team can’t even think about dealing you, or talk to other teams. If Sundin was within his rights, so was Fletcher.

Sundin and his defenders can’t hold firm on his “I have a contract, and beyond that I owe the Leafs nothing” routine, but then expect the Leafs to shield him from trade rumors. What for? Out of loyalty? Sorry, that works both ways.

If Sundin couldn’t even handle trade rumors, then he needs a thicker skin.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 18, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s well put, ’67.

What if your last boss made you go crazy by always trying to get people to “understand” their failures rather then just holding them accountable? Then he’s fired and replaced by a guy who’s whole approach is based on accountability, and the new management is out to destroy the cozy atmosphere that made working there comfortable? Being Mats Sundin Malkovich is intense. He needs to be treated like a royal fucking princess (not that there’s anything wrong with that), and for the first time in his life he’s faced with the prospect of having to work for 2 people (Wilson and Burke) who have even bigger egos and with even greater sense of self-importance than he has.

Or he can go somewhere else where they’ll treat him like the new princess in town.

Toronto has become too intense, too real. Sundin wants to live in a world where “as long as we make the playoffs anything can happen”, like Bryan McCabe in Florida. The problem for Sundin the last few years has been getting in there. Well, this year Sundin has figured out a solution: Join a solid contender mid-way through the season and let them be responsible for making the playoffs. Accountability: zero! Pressure: none! Chance for Glory: 1/16, maybe better, with only a minor investment in the “journey”.

by general borschevsky on Dec 17, 2008 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d love to have the Myers-Briggs results for Sundin. Would explain a lot.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 18, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Those tests only work if your answers are internally consistent. His test would be right in the middle of everything.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 18, 2008 1:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I have my guess

and if I’m right, it explains why I can imagine that I understand his thought processes while most other folks are either baffled or annoyed.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 18, 2008 2:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Just reread this

And yes, people are going to want to know what went on and that’s reasonable.

I don’t think we’re going to get that explanation, though, particularly if it’s a dirty laundry kind of explanation. Mats always seems to have kept the personal stuff really close to the vest. The question will be whether people will be able to take a non-answer.

To me, when a decision like that happens, my response is that something obviously changed. I can sort of live with that fact without knowing what that something is, even if I’d like to know.

Now, if it were really hitting me personally, I’d probably want a higher standard of explanation.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 18, 2008 2:33 AM EST up reply actions  

If there’s a dirty laundry type explanation, that’s different. I don’t expect him to throw anybody under the bus. If that’s the case, then something along the lines of “there were a lot of factors, some aren’t public and I don’t want to get into those, but I wish the whole situation could have worked out differently” might be all he can say.

But the “dirty laundry” better not be “I didn’t want them to even ask me about a trade, they did, that made my life difficult for a few weeks because I had to answer a few media questions, and I decided to sulk my way out of town because of it”. If that’s the case, then screw him.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 18, 2008 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s what I’d expect as an answer, personally.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 20, 2008 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

That Topps Heritage set of cards looks pretty sweet. Was the entire 2000-01 set done in that style?

by somny on Dec 20, 2008 3:18 PM EST reply actions  

Yes – a clone of ’57-58 Topps. They did a nice job of it.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 20, 2008 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

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