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Five Reasons Mats Sundin Can Suck My Left Testicle

Yeah I know, he was treated shabbily by management, he doesn't  owe us anything, he gave his heart and soul, he's classy, he deserves to win a cup, and blah blah blah blah blah.  I don't care.  I don't even care that I've known that he wasn't coming back for a long time.  I still don't like it, I still think it sucks, I still think we got jobbed, I still think he's taken a long, hot, steamy piss all over his legacy, I still think he's a hypocrite, I still think this is lame, and I still think Mats Sundin can suck my left nut.  Argue with me all you want, you know deep down part of you feels the EXACT same way.  This totally blows.  Here are five reasons I wash my hands of the big Swede:

1.  For all the talk of him never having the wingers he needed to be a top-flight superstar and to take the team to the promised land, he never once used his stature as captain of the team and the person with the most secure future in Blue and White (moreso than any coach or GM he played under) to push for those moves to be made.  If Wayne Gretzky or Mark Messier or Steve Yzerman or any of those leaders of winning teams felt they didn't have the proper support, you can bet your ass they'd have used their stature and leverage as leaders and superstars to make that happen.

2.  He was never angry enough about losing.  Read quotes from him at the end of losing seasons, or after playoff defeats, or even over the last couple of years after shitty games, and he never got MAD, he never said he was EMBARRASSED by the state of his team, he never showed that he felt things were going in the wrong direction, he just stood there with his big stupid Swedish face and blathered a few cliches and then went back to not doing squat.  Maybe once in a while he'd say the effort wasn't there, but that would be IT.  Yes, he was a good leader in that he led by example on the ice, but again, Mess or Stevie Y would never have stood for that shit as long as Mats did.

3.  He lied to us.  He said he wouldn't start a season partway through.  Then he did just that.  He belittled Niedermayer and Selanne for coming back partway through a season, said he couldn't see how a person could consider themselves part of a team if they weren't there from the start, and then he did just that.  He's a hypocrite, and that's lame.

4.  He left Leafs fans hanging.  Say what you will about him deserving more from the organization.  The only reason he gets paid millions of dollars to play a game for a living is because of fans, and he was lucky enough to play in a market that would buy jerseys with his name on them and shell out hundreds of dollars more than his team was worth to see him play, and where he could get endorsement deals with Nike and McDonald's and Campbell's Chunky Soup, and all no matter how shitty his team was.  I'm not saying he should have allowed himself to be traded last year at the deadline just to please us, but to sit there like a goddamn statue in Sweden and toss out little hints that he could retire or he could go back to Toronto or he could play somewhere else and to keep his fans guessing for so long... well, all I'll say is that there are little kids in Toronto who consider you a hero Mats, a living, breathing super hero, and you let them all down.  I hope this was worth it.

5.  In the end, he took the money.  Vancouver is by no stretch of the imagination a top Stanley Cup contender.  They're 14 points back of the top team in their conference, they count Kyle Wellwood among their top scorers, and the one asset that does put them head and shoulders above most teams, Roberto Luongo, has been hurt for weeks and who knows how close to 100% he'll be for the rest of the season.  Yes Mats gets to play with the Swedish Stepford twins, but the Rangers, the Flyers and the Habs all look like better bets to go far in the playoffs than the Canucks do, even with a most-likely-out-of-shape centre who hasn't played a minute this season and is pushing 40.  You sold out Mats, as if you needed the money, and it hurts.

Obviously I'm feeling very emotional right now about all of this, but fuck (yes, I said FUCK), this is really, really sad for Toronto, for hockey, and most of all for a player who I'd ALWAYS defended whenever people denigrated his skill, his playoff performances, his leadership ability, or his commitment to the city of Toronto.  Mats, suck my left nut.

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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1. Only Mats and Leafs management know who and what Mats asked for in terms of team mates.

2. Yeah, Stanley Cup winning captains are all about the rage: Lidstrom is famous for it, so is Niedermayer and Dave Andreychuk was all about calling guys out, smashing sticks and…oh wait.

3. True, he did lie.

4. The worst outcome in all of this would have been another year of Sundin with the Leafs. Ice time wouldn’t go to developing players, the cultue wouldn’t have changed, the team would have more points and worse draft picks. It’s best that he moved on.

5. If Mats was about the money, he would have signed the $20M offer from Vancouver. By dithering, Mats lost out on about $5M. It’s really about the cap – the Canucks are the only playoff calibre team with any cap room left, that’s why Mats is on the West Coast.

Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...

by mf37 on Dec 19, 2008 9:11 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

1. If Mats truly pushed for better help he’d have received it, he was Mats Sundin after all. As stated in a previous comment, there is no way your captain and best player is really pushing for better complimentary players when his wingers are Jonas Hoglund and Mikael Renberg, or for that matter Nik Antropov and Alex Ponikarovsky.

2. Lidstrom and Niedermayer have NEVER been captains of consistently bad teams, and by the time Andreychuk was made captain in Tampa Bay a plan was in place to lead them to become a great team, which they did a few seasons later, winning the Stanley Cup. Mats was captain of a consistent underperformer for years upon years, so yeah, I think a little rage was in order.

3. Yeah.

4. My point here is that he sat there like a big dumb Swedish log and made no decision, dropping hints that maybe he’d still consider coming back to Toronto when he had no intention of doing so (it would have been easy as hell for him just to say “no. I’m not going back there” and that would have been it). You can say he didn’t have any obligation to do so, and contractually you’re right. But it still hurts me as a Leafs fan that he let it linger like that. And since fans are what I’m talking about, and I’m one, and I’M bothered by it, I’d say that means he bothered his fans by taking so long.

5. I don’t buy the cap argument. What the fuck does he care? If a team needs to move pieces to fit him they would have. The Rangers certainly would have, the Habs and Flyers too. They’re not going to move pieces that make them bad just to fit Sundin in. He knows guys like Sather, Gainey and Clarke are smarter than that. He still could have wound up with a better, more contending team than Vancouver.

AFTER MATS - Chronicling the Toronto Maple Leafs in the post-Mats Sundin (aka Awesome) Era.

by Wendel's Moustache on Dec 19, 2008 11:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

1.It’s moot – we’ll never know if Mats tried to get players added or not; besides, do you really think GMs aim to acquire mediocre players?

2. We’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t think anger produces a winning culture. Messier missed the playoffs the whole back end of his career.

3. Yup

4. He was never coming back to Toronto. The Leafs knew it, Mats knew it and the fans should have known it. Everyone had to say the right things – we’d welcome him back, I wouldn’t rule it out – because it’s good PR and we live in an age where no one can speak the flat out truth. Nobody actually meant those things – it’s like Burke claiming he won’t ask a player to waive their NTC. Sure he won’t, but you can bet dollars to donuts he’ll ask their agent.

5. It’s all about the cap. Name a team that’s a playoff contender that has cap room. There are none. Name the last time a big ticket player got dealt with no salary coming back in return. Doesn’t happen, especially with 20 of the 30 NHL teams right up against the cap and eight out of the 10 remaining teams at their budget threshold. There’s no way, at this point in the season, any contending team could find the space for Mats and his $5M contract. The cap may be the biggest player in this whole situation.

Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...

by mf37 on Dec 19, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is fun, I like lists

1. No, obviously they try for the best talent they can afford, unless that talent wants more money than you’re already paying your top centre

2. Fair enough. I’m just saying that it gets frustrating as a fan (I felt) when loss after loss we got the same “we have to give a better effort in our own zone next game” cliches rather than seeing a captain get visibly upset that his team sucked. Now, he might very well have sodomized Bryan McCabe with the blade end of his stick for every McCabe giveaway when they were behind closed doors and we would never know about it, but it would have been nice, I think, as a fan, for him to have shown some displeasure once in a while with leading such an underperformer.

3. Uh huh.

4. I disagree with that. I think last season, when he wouldn’t wave his NTC (totally his right of course) and claimed it was because of wanting to stay in Toronto and win a cup here and that bullshit about the journey and all that, and then this season refused to say he wasn’t coming back, I think at least some people thought he might actually return. Cliff Fletcher thought there was enough of a chance that he left the cap room available should Mats decide to come home. If Fletcher thought there was a shot, then it’s not unreasonable that a lot of Toronto fans maybe did too.

5. I guarantee you if Mats had said to Bobby Clarke or Glen Sather that he wanted to sign with them, they’d have found a way to make it work that didn’t hurt their team (at least not hurt them more than picking up Sundin would have helped them). And the argument is moot anyway since the point I’m making is that Mats took money over going to a true contender, which is absolutely true or he could have taken a pay cut to play for any number of contending teams. Yeah the PA might have had a fit but I doubt Mats at this stage of his career is too worried about pissing off the union. It’s not like the guy needs the cash.

AFTER MATS - Chronicling the Toronto Maple Leafs in the post-Mats Sundin (aka Awesome) Era.

by Wendel's Moustache on Dec 19, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sorry

I guess I should say Paul Holmgren when talking about the Flyers… but you know, Clarkie…

AFTER MATS - Chronicling the Toronto Maple Leafs in the post-Mats Sundin (aka Awesome) Era.

by Wendel's Moustache on Dec 19, 2008 12:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, this is fun and we’re moving towards a bit more consensus too.

1. We sort-of agree and the sad thing is, we’ll likely never know.

2. We sort-of agree here too, and once again sadly we’ll never know.

3. Oh yeah, 100%

4. Interesting that we took the same statements to mean different things. I just thought it was all surface…

5. I don’t see how Holmgren or Sather could find the space needed to sign Mats. New York was going to waive Kalnin, but they still would have needed to find another 3+ million and pay for someone to take Kalnin’s spot on D. Philly is right at the cap limit, so they’d have to move $5M+ in salary to make room for Mats. If it’s going to be trade, what team out there can take on that cap space? If it’s waiver wires, that’s a lot of bodies to move to find that much salary room. Have a look at both team’s caps and propose how either Philly or New York signs Mats at $5.5 and stays under a $56.7M hard cap. I don’t see how it could be done.

Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...

by mf37 on Dec 19, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

1. Given

2. Also conceded

3. Lying bastard!

4. I just assumed I guess that beyond just statements being made, the actual hard reality of cap space being left available, to me anyway, suggested that it was more than just PR talk and surface musings

5. Granted, it would have been hard, if not impossible, to fit Mats Sundin into those salary structures at his asking price (although again, both teams were in the running, and I still contend that those two smart general managers had a way to make it work if Mats had called on them to do so, they were after all pursuing him). But again, the point is he could have also taken a lot less money than $5.5 mil and wound up on any number of teams. Why can’t you waive Kalinin, pick up a cheap body to take his D spot, and pay Sundin the balance? We’re still talking millions of dollars to play half a season, and with a much greater chance to win a Stanley Cup than where he ended up. That he chose a marginal contender rather than come off his salary demand just proves my point that he was more interested in top dollar, so long as it was with a (probably) playoff bound team.

AFTER MATS - Chronicling the Toronto Maple Leafs in the post-Mats Sundin (aka Awesome) Era.

by Wendel's Moustache on Dec 19, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Marian Hossa

left a lot of multi-year money on the table to sign with Detroit, and he has a LOT more to lose should he get seriously hurt this season than Sundin does as far as long term financial future in the league.

AFTER MATS - Chronicling the Toronto Maple Leafs in the post-Mats Sundin (aka Awesome) Era.

by Wendel's Moustache on Dec 19, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

On 1, 2 and 3 we’re good.

On 4 it’s just a matter of perspective.

On 5, yeah Mats could have (and probably should have) taken a discount to play for a Cup but if he’s going to do that I would think he’d be better off playing for the league minimum in Montreal, San Jose or Detroit.

I’d love to know what the NHLPA’s take would be on a player deeply discounting his services to fit in under a team’s cap.

Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...

by mf37 on Dec 19, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was

thinking about this actually, and you’re right, best move would have been to offer himself to a real, top flight team for the minimum if he was really serious about contending (although I don’t necessarily believe that New York or Philly can’t be a top flight contender, at least to come out of the east).

But if he took a prorated $4 million a year, working out to a little over $2 mil with what’s left in the season, I can’t see the PA getting TOO bent out of shape over a 38-year-old 70+ point player taking a $4 million dollar contract, and a lot of better teams than the Canucks can either afford now or with a couple of fairly painless moves to pay that salary. Then everyone wins and I don’t blow a gasket over him. I really think I could have gotten over the bullshit about the journey and the other points I’d made if this didn’t seem like such a naked cash grab to me. I might even be able to be happy for the guy getting his cup, I did love Sundin for most of my adult life, after all…

AFTER MATS - Chronicling the Toronto Maple Leafs in the post-Mats Sundin (aka Awesome) Era.

by Wendel's Moustache on Dec 19, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

About the Money

It would have been nice to see Mats sign with a true contender (Wings or Sharks) for the league minimum. THAT would help a team win. Can you imagine adding a first or second line C for league minimum? Hard to counter against. If Mats had of done that, I think a lot of Toronto fans would be singing his praises, or at least putting their pitchforks away.

But alas, Mats signed with a middle of the road team for presumably the most money available at the time.

PS, how awesome would it have been if Mats had of signed the 2 yr/10 mil deal and then promptly retired. THAT would have been about the money. hhahaha.

by lordosis on Dec 19, 2008 11:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

In one sense it would have been nice to see him take the minimum.

On the other, it would have been a huge slap in the face of Leaf fans. In 14 years, he only ever took a discount for Toronto once (last year), and it was a very small discount. And we hear that he’s apparently still bitter over that.

Expecting him to take a big discount just wasn’t realistic. For whatever reason, that salary figure is important to him. Maybe even more important than the actual money.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Dec 20, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For whatever reason, that salary figure is important to him. Maybe even more important than the actual money.

For sure, I believe that.

I don’t think he’s bitter about taking a discount to be in Toronto, just bitter about the way it turned out. He may have asked for certain things (like publicly respecting his NTC, or better, the extra money spent on a top 5 goaltender) in return for the discount, but he didn’t get those things. That’d make me bitter.

If there is any solace we can take in Mats’ decision it is that he gave no indication that Leaf rivals Montreal or Ottawa were ever possibilities.

by general borschevsky on Dec 20, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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