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Truculence, Shmuculence

Editor's Note: Fleet Fox takes an in-depth look at how the Leafs' games have changed after fights and whether the team's hits have affected the momentum of the game.

As I was watching Colton Orr’s grinning face come out of a scrum against the Avalanche, I got thinking about Truculence, and about how much good it has done for us so far this season (no sarcasm). I wondered aloud (atype?) in the GDT why we even signed him, and was surprised at the number of PPPers who vehemently jumped to his defense. We all said some rash things that night, and though I might be crazy for questioning the signing, I wanted to look into it some more; has the added truculence brought anything positive so far?

Now, let’s get one thing clear: this Fanpost is not supposed to be a judgment of the potential of the Leafs’ toughness, or any larger connection between fighting, hitting, and scoring. These statistics are what they are; they're only six games' worth.

 More specifically though, I wanted to see if I could find any statistical evidence that hits and/or fights have lead to any shift in momentum so far this year. Bad penalties seem to be the worst momentum-killer as of yet, but that doesn’t mean that fights or hits haven’t lead to positives, either.

 I have done two main things:

1)    Examine the number of hits per period and compare them to how many goals were scored in each one.

2)    Examine the number of hits, shots, and penalties, directly following every fight the Leafs have been in so far. I’ve also kept track of who scored the next goal.

Star-divide

I’ll sum up the main points here, so you don’t have to go over all the games in detail. 

  • Over the course of the last six games, the Leafs have averaged exactly 24 hits per game. For whatever it’s worth (and I know it’s not much), after a rough 6-game start to last season, we had averaged exactly 23 hits. Not a big difference.
  • It should also be noted that we have been out-hit by the opposition in 4 out of 6 of our games so far this year, and it was exactly the same last season after the same number of skirmishes.
  • The Leafs have been in 9 fights so far this year. Times that a fight preceded a Toronto goal: 3 out of 9. This also includes one goal that came later in the next period, and was unlikely to have been much affected by the fight. So, the opposition has scored next 6 out of 9 times.
  • Times that Toronto out-shot their opponent following a fight: 1 out of 9.
  • Times that shots were equal (or that there were no shots): 4. I do not include the goal-scoring shot in this calculation.
  • Times that Toronto has out-hit their opponents following a fight: 2. Times that the hitting has been even: 3.
  • The Leafs have only out-hit and out-shot one team for one period: the third period of the Caps game when we were already down 6 – 1. There weren’t even any fights in this game that I could point at to explain the momentum shift. Wilson must have just given them hell.
  • The Leafs were out-hit or evenly matched in hits for every other period where they scored as many or more goals as the opposition. So far, less hits = more goals.
  • In both games that he has been in the lineup, Jeff Finger has lead our team in hits.
  • Mike Komisarek has consistently been among the top hitters on the ice.
  • Nikolai Kulemin has twice led our team in hits.
  • Colton Orr has exactly lived up to his billing. No more, no less. Despite the fact that he is often on the ice less than five minutes a game, he still manages land a couple hits, and, often enough, a fight in. He can't skate, shoot, or pass, but he has good energy, and I'm hoping it will rub off on a few players. 

Now here are the stats that I used to glean this info from our last six games:

Avalanche vs. Leafs

Game Hits: 26 – 21 for Colorado

Leaders in hits for Toronto: Komisarek with 6. Grabovski, Beachemin, Exelby, and Orr all have 2.

First period: 15 – 5 Colorado

Score: 1 – 1.

Second period: 11 – 6 Toronto

Score: 4 – 1 Colorado

Third period: 5 – 5.

Score does not change.

Fights and their effects:

First period:

-       6:02: Orr vs. Koci

-      Colorado gives the next 3 hits over about 3 minutes, Leaf give 0

-      The following goal by Colorado on the PP

-      From the time of the fight until the time of the goal, shots are 2 – 0 Colorado

Second period:

-       7:23: Exelby vs. Hendricks

-      Toronto gives the next 2 hits until the time of the goal

-      The following goal by Colorado at even strength.

-      From the time of the fight until the time of the goal, shots are 1 – 1

Roundup:

The Leafs were out-hit at the end of the game, and the two fights brought about no tangible improvement. In fact, the only period in which the Leafs out-hit the Avalanche was their worst period on the scoreboard, as they gave up two goals, and did not tally any of their own.

Leafs vs. Rangers

Game Hits: 43 – 27 Toronto 

Leaders in hits for Toronto: Finger with 7. Komisarek had 4.

First period: 14 - 10 Toronto

Score: 2 – 1 Rangers

Second period: 16 – 6 Toronto

Score: 3 – 2 Rangers

Third period: 17 - 7 Toronto

Score 7 – 2 Rangers

Fights and their effects:

First period:

-       10:18: Orr vs. Brashear

-      After the fight, hits are 5 apiece until next goal

-      Ponikarovsky scores 8 minutes later

-      Shots are 3 – 3 until the goal.

*       Note: There were also incidental roughing minors called on Komisarek and Dubinsky just over 2 minutes before the goal.

Roundup:

The fight and scrum between Komisarek and Dubinsky may well have changed the tone of the game enough to contribute to the goal in the first. Sadly, all the hits thrown by the Leafs seem to have been for naught, since we out-hit the Rangers in both our best and worst periods (2nd, and 3rd respectively). 

Penguins vs. Leafs

Game Hits: 32 – 25 Toronto

Leaders in hits for Toronto: Nikolai Kulemin with 6, Luke Schenn, Mike Komisarek, and Lee Stempniak tied for 2nd with 4 each.

First period: 14 – 11 Toronto

Score: 2 – 0 Pittsburgh.

Second period: 13 – 9 Toronto

Score: 4 – 1 Pittsburgh

Third period: 7 – 7

Score: 5 – 2 Pittsburgh.

Fights and their effects:

First period:

-       2:19: Orr vs. Godard

-      Pittsburgh has 4 hits before the next goal, the Leafs had none

-      Cooke scores next goal for Pittsburgh exactly 1 minute later

-      Pittsburgh has 1 shot on goal before scoring.

-       10:25: Mayers vs. Adams

-      Immediately upon resuming play after last goal by Pittsburgh

-      Hits until the end of the period are 6 – 2 Toronto

-      Toronto scores next, but not until 2:01 of second period

-      Shots are 3 – 1 Pittsburgh until end of period

Third period:

-       2:10: Rosehill vs. Rupp

-      Immediately upon resuming play after last goal by Pittsburgh

-      After fight, until end of game, hits are 7 – 6 Pens

-      No other scoring follows

-      Shots after fight until end of game are 10 – 6 Pittsburgh.

Roundup:

The Orr & Godard fight didn’t do the Leafs any favors as far as momentum, and appears to have had a negative impact. The Mayers fight seems not to have any effect, given that the next goal wasn’t for quite some time afterwards, although I guess it didn’t hurt. The last fight bookends Pittsburgh’s scoring, but that doesn’t say much, since the Leafs were out-hit and out-shot afterwards. Interesting that the Leafs best period was when the hits were even.

Sens vs. Leafs 

Game hits: 35 – 27 Ottawa

Toronto hit leaders: Nikolai Kulemin with 4, Luke Schenn, Tomas Kaberle, and Colton Orr each with 3.

First period: 12 – 11 Toronto

Score 0 – 0

Second period: 10 – 8 Ottawa

Score 2 – 0

Third period: 12 – 7 Ottawa

Score: 2 -1 Ottawa

Fights and their effects:

NONE.

Roundup:

Despite being out-hit, Toronto only lost by one goal or, alternatively, won by 1 goal, if you’re still angry with the refs. This is their narrowest margin of defeat, and it is noteworthy that the Leafs’ only goal came from a period in which they were out-hit. No fighting to change the momentum.

Leafs vs. Capitals

Game Hits: 24 – 22 Washington

Toronto hit leaders: Jeff Finger with 5, Komisarek with 4.

First period: 12 hits apiece

Score: 3 – 0 Washington

Second period: 7 – 4

Score 6 – 1 Washington

Third period: 8 – 5 Toronto

Score: 6 – 4 Washington

Fights and their effects:

NONE.

Roundup:

The Leafs roughly matched the Capitals’ hit count, but it is noteworthy that the third period was the only time this year that the Leafs have both out-hit and out-scored an opponent. You read that correctly: only one period. There were not fights in this game to change the momentum.

Canadiens vs. Leafs

Game hits: 37 – 22 for Montréal

Toronto hit leaders: Luke Schenn with 5, while White, Komisarek, and Beachemin all had 3.

First period: 17 – 9 Montréal

Score: 1 – 1

Second period: 11 – 7 Montréal

Score: 2 – 2

Third period: 9 – 7 Montréal

Score: 3 -3

Overtime: No hits in OT

Score 4 – 3 Montréal

Fights and their effects:

First period:

-       1:51: Orr vs. Laraque

-      Sets the tone for a tough game, but there is another fight before there is a single goal

-      Between this fight and the next, the hits are 7 – 4 Montréal

-      The shots are 10 – 4 for Toronto

-       10:55: Rosehill vs. Moen

-      Komisarek gets a double-minor for high sticking at 11:01, and Montréal scores 4 seconds into the power play.

-      There are no shots or hits between the fight and the goal.

-      Damn.

Third period:

-       8:56: Komisarek vs. Moen

-      Toronto is on the PP because Moen took an additional minor for goaltender interference and Matt Stajan scores at 9:09.

-      There are no other hits or shots between the fight and the goal.

Roundup:

After the first fight, the Leafs had good energy, but they can’t capitalize on this momentum. The Komi penalty after the second fight takes away anything we had going, so it’s tough to see what effect this would have had otherwise. The third fight, however, is Komisarek jumping to the aid of Toskala, after being run by Moen, and I like to see this. Komi didn’t have to take an additional penalty, and Stajan scored the equalizer on the PP – good work. Hampster line aside, Montréal looks tough. 

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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Comments

Display:

I've said it numerous times....

Taking dumb penalties does not = Truculence.

On another note, Schenner isn’t hitting as much as I’ve expected him to this season. Maybe it’s the slow start, but he’ll pick up his play, hopefully. (as well as the rest of the team, for that matter.)

Plus, we’ve really got to use the fights and hitting to change our momentum. So far, we’ve failed to actually capitalize on any momentum shifts brought upon by fights and hits. It seems that we cower away and let the other team take the game right after a show of physical strength. That needs to change.

by Kavel Pubina on Oct 15, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It’s a very good post and I tend to agree with you, Fleet. Hitting is simply a tool, and tools, as any construction person knows, can either be used well or accidentally jammed in your own eye.
I’m not particularly interested in a pillow-soft team- the ability to hit hard AND absorb punishment is critical to success over the course of a season. But when it’s easier to steal the puck, move aside to allow your goalie a clear view of the puck, or hold back for the right time to make the right hit, then it needs to used wisely. If we could confidently out-score all of our opponents, then by all means hit away- grind your opponents down over the season while beating them. But, for example, when a bad or stupid (Exelby??? Komi sometimes) actually cripples your team, then your team needs to change.
I just finished watching Anaheim/Minnesota, and a couple years after their Cup, the Ducks are still a joy to watch- tough, fast, gritty, some good hands, a confident goalie and a confident crew in front of him. The chemistry between the team is clearly evident, and they appear to waste very little energy on pointless aggression. But they are not soft in any way. This year MAY turn out to be a wreck, but so long as Burke’s long-term goal is Anaheim v. 2.0, I’m happy to wait.

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Oct 15, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Clearly the problem is that they’re not fighting enough.

Nice post. Personally I’m very suspicious that the number of times a fight – or even a big hit – actually changes the momentum of a game is very small. I’d bet that staged fights are particularly useless in this regard.

Momentum is changed by players buckling down, working harder and playing as a team. Sometimes a team is inspired (or deflated) by a big hit, sometimes a big hit comes as a result of a change in momentum, and sometimes the change just happens. In fact, it usually happens multiple times each game; and then broadcasters and fans fall all over ourselves trying to identify some kind of magic moment.

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on Oct 15, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting post.

I would argue that the Leafs’ overall play has been so bad, and their current state of confidence so shot to hell, that it totally outweighs any possible benefit or momentum that can be gained from Orr’s and Rosehill’s fights to date. I still think signing Orr was a good move; certainly he has done what he’s been asked to do and has done very little to hurt his team so far.

It would be interesting to track similar numbers when the team eventually hits a good run of form and wins a few in a row. I would tend to believe that’s when we’ll see more benefits from what Orr can do for the team.

Being a Leaf fan here requires one to be sufficiently lubricated... and truculent!

by stucky on Oct 15, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

agreed, especially since the tough guys are the only ones really doing their job.
right now, the fights and big hits (there have been only two that i can remember, both by Jeff Finger) are all but useless. You can lead a horse to water and all that. But if, and when, the Leafs are playing better, have confidence and need that little extra boost to put them over the top the Orr, Rosehill and yes, even Mayers contributions will be invaluble

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by JaredFromLondon on Oct 15, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Disagreed. If having a goon only helps the Leafs play well when they’re already playing well, how do you tell it’s making any difference at all?

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on Oct 15, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like Jared said, when the team is confident, what Orr and Rosehill do put them over the top. Right now the difference they make can’t counteract their lack of confidence and thus their overall crap-tacular play.

Being a Leaf fan here requires one to be sufficiently lubricated... and truculent!

by stucky on Oct 15, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is interesting. I mean the numbers can be kinda skewed because the 1st period has been our worst and typically most of the fighting within a game comes in the 1st period as no coach wants to put their bruisers on the ice for the last crucial moments of the game (When it matters, HAH new context).

I do agree with you on Orr’s energy though. Guy is a beast and you can tell he just loves doing what he is doing. I really hope it rubs off on his teammates.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 15, 2009 10:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Draft Schmaft

It’s too early to make any judgment on this team.

But right now I understand the feeling; truculence seems overrated.

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by eyebleaf on Oct 15, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

truculence is awesome, when complemented by effort and skill
neither of which has been present for 6 games

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by JaredFromLondon on Oct 15, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

truculence=truculence
truculence+purpose=results

Is it April yet?

by floridaLEAF on Oct 15, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Slight amendment
Truculence + ability + purpose = results.

I’m all for a little truculence. All else being equal, I’d rather have my team’s players be men of violence. But all else isn’t equal here. These guys are specialist tough guys who bring pretty much nothing else to the team. Anaheim wasn’t good because they had Brad May, they were good because they had Chris Pronger. It’s hard to be intimidating when you can’t be trusted to be on the ice enough to worry anybody, or are too slow to catch them. These guys aren’t Wendel Clark. Hell, they aren’t even Tie Domi. They’re barely Wade Belak. And that’s not really helping very much.

by MattM on Oct 15, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe when burke introduced us all to truculence, he meant that it was going to show up at some point during his tenure here, not neccessarily right away….. this team will be truculent, it just has to learn

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Oct 15, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way…nice job on the post, Fleet

Is it April yet?

by floridaLEAF on Oct 15, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Time off

I think the copious amount of time off the team will have over the next week will be good for them. They had a strenuous, jam packed pre-season with only 2 or 3 days off for that “team building” trip. I think it’s possible fatigue may have played into their play, which is something I hadn’t considered, but does make some measure of sense.

by birky on Oct 15, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The biggest momentum killer for the Leafs has been scoring goals. Every time we get one, it seems to deflate the team! I don’t have the stats to back it up exactly, but that’s just what it seems like from watching…

by Leaf in Habland on Oct 15, 2009 11:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The problem with enforcers today...

is that they don’t enforce shit. All they do is fight each other. Back in the day if a player was taking liberties on the ice it meant getting grabbed by the resident goon and getting a beating. Now, with this ridiculous ‘code’ goons only fight goons, nine times out of ten it has nothing to do with the game, and has little or no effect on the rest of the team.
Why would anyone be intimidated by the Leafs? We saw in the Caps game, unless you want to fight, you won’t have to. I miss the days of Wendel beating the crap out of a guy for looking at him funny. That was intimidating. Semenko going after anyone who dared breath on Gretzky, regardless of who they were. That was intimidating.
Burke talked about protecting the stars with ‘truculence’, but who on the Leafs took issue with Stalberg getting steamrolled by Volchenkov? The kid nearly got his head knocked off, and there was no response. You think Volchenkov, or anyone else for that matter, will think twice about running guys next game? Of course not.
If you want teams to be intimidated, instead of having Orr fight Brashear on Saturday in a meaningless sideshow, send him out to start running Gaborik, Drury, Staal etc. until someone reacts and fights him. Repeat the process with Rosehill. This team can’t intimidate with it’s talent, maybe it should try to intimidate with it’s crazy.

by DeanoTPS on Oct 15, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That hit on Stalberg was a clean hit.

What do you want them to do take a run at Volchenkov for a clean hit? I would rather not.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 15, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Taking a run at Volchenkov because he’s……….Volchenkov would be fine with me.

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Oct 15, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well yeah theres that. But we have talked Ad Naseum on here about how much people hate about scrums and fights that result from clean hits. Its annoying.

I don’t have a problem with anything else Deano mentions though.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 15, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not a fan of players having to defend themselves after a clean hit either. However, this team was supposedly built to intimidate. To do so, they need to be a little crazy, and overreact to situations like a rookie getting run over. Someone needed to take the instigator penalty, lay a beating on Volchenkov, and send a message to the league that running a Leaf will have consequences.

It’s like that Sean Connery line from the Untouchables: ‘He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He puts one of your guys in the hospital, you put one his in the morgue!’

It’s not fair play. It’s not classy. But if you want to play fair and classy, don’t waste a roster spot on Colton Orr or Jay Rosehill.

by DeanoTPS on Oct 15, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know what. That is a fair point. I can’t argue.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 15, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

its only a matter of time before we start beating teams and they start firing their coaches ’cause they lost to us

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Oct 15, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with this strategy right now is that our PK is terrible. If we have one of the best PKs in the league, the threat is much more fearsome.

by general borschevsky on Oct 15, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should have signed Rob Niedermeyer…

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 15, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we need Primeau to get healthy.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Oct 15, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t mind scrums and fights that result from clean hits. As long as we win the fights and our hits are clean, it doesn’t bother me. Even a bad reason is a reason, the ones that bother me are the ones that happen for no discernable reason at all.

by general borschevsky on Oct 15, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

You don’t fight him or run him in response you try to get Alfie or Spezza with their head down and plow through them cleanly.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Oct 15, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you want to throw big hits you’re going to get punched up.

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by Chemmy on Oct 15, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure. It’s a clean hit but I still don’t want teams throwing big hits at our players. That was Burke’s whole point last year. “My teams don’t get run, my teams do the running.”

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by Chemmy on Oct 15, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Glen Healy made the same point. Orr and Rosehill shouldn’t be fighting Godard and Rupp. They should be trying to nail Crosby and Malkin.

Gilmour has a great story about how one night in Vancouver Odjick was taking runs at him so Wendel went out to the face-off and told Bure to tell Odjick that if he touched Gilmour again Wendel was going to kill Pavel. Surprise, surprise, Gino stayed away from Dougie.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Oct 15, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I like this story.

Getting saltier by the post.

by ohshrit on Oct 15, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

truculence

I forget who said it (probably 1967ers) but Burke isn’t trying to do anything new in Toronto. Think of all our great teams of the past – Truculence, Belligerance, Pugnacity and Testosterone were all key elements of those teams.
Look back to the Quinn years, that’s what our teams will be like. Only better. Was Domi necessery then? I like to think so. That’s what I see Orr’s spot on the team as being (minus dirty hit on Niedermayer and the like)

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Oct 15, 2009 12:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The problem is that Domi could actually play 10 minutes per game without killing you. He was even good for 5-10 goals/yr. Orr is not the same kind of player.

I tend to agree with others that “toughness in the course of play” is much more important than being able to win a staged bout with the opponent’s designated goon. So far we’ve seen too much of the latter, not enough of the former.

by The '67 Sound on Oct 15, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Orrs hockey skill is under rated, his major flaw is a lack of speed. Domi wasnt the swiftest of skaters either, if their time frames were reversed iI’m sure orr would be just as useful as domi was in the pre-lockout years

Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Oct 15, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

I see a lot of similarities there… I think once Primeau is back as our 4th line center, we can pop Mayers down there too and have a 4th line that can play more than 3 minutes a game.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Oct 15, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Domi was actually a really good skater…

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Oct 15, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

really? i dont remember him being particularly good

Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Oct 15, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just watch Battle of the Blades. That man can Mick Jagger strut like you wouldn’t believe.

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by SkinnyFish on Oct 15, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

shudders

I can’t see him in those pants

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Oct 15, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so

no pants?

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 15, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tie Domi

was actually the fastest player on the Leafs’ roster one year (as timed by the Leafs’ skills competition). I really wish I could remember which, but I don’t have time right now to be checking on that right now, sorry.

by Fleet Fox on Oct 15, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mayers was the fastest last year…..

Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Oct 15, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

Mitchell was.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Oct 15, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh, maybe it was the year before, i remember one article talking about how mayers was “deceptively fast” and won all the foot races in practice

Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Oct 15, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That wasn’t a WCH report, was it?

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Oct 15, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

that report was before the season, when they were trying to sell us on how great it was to have brought him in

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Oct 15, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tie Domi Could Skate

The problem was he couldn’t stop or turn at speed….

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Oct 15, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s what the other team’s players were for!

Truculence...starting 10/1/09

by LeafBoy on Oct 15, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Or handle the puck.

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on Oct 15, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What some people seem to forget when they say we should send Orr and Rosehill out there to intimidate just like Wendel Clark did back in the day is that Orr/Rosehill are completely different styles of players than Clark was. With Clark, he was almost as likely to put the puck in the other team’s net as he was to destroy an opposing player (GP: 793 P: 564 PIM: 1690). In contrast, Orr/Rosehill are straight up enforcers. No team is worried about Orr burying their top scorer and then burning them with a goal. As it was mentioned before, all the fights so far have been enforcer vs. enforcer. The game has changed that way and unless it reverts to what it was in the early 90’s, you won’t see enforcers trying to get at scorers in the same way.

Also, Wendel could play game in and game out against any team’s top line. You wouldn’t want to have that matchup with Orr/Rosehill. Imagine that line playing 15 minutes a game against the Ovechkin, Crosby, or Malkin lines. It would get pretty ugly I think. First, we’d get no scoring, and second, I doubt Ovechkin or to a lesser degree Malkin would be intimidated at all.

-Graham-

by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 15, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’d imagine Crosby is so much better at skating than Orr or Rosehill that they probably wouldn’t be able to hit him.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Oct 15, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly my point.

-Graham-

by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 15, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

You might not get them out there more than once or twice but that just means that the rest of the team has to be going after them. Those two didn’t get touched.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Oct 15, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who's that guy?

We should have signed that #2 guy….

/ducks

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 15, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not saying I would ever want Toronto to try this but last season the Rangers tried putting Orr out against Crosby a few times and he actually did alright.

Go Leafs and Bruins!

www.mma-elite.com

by Brad Ackerson on Oct 18, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wilson has been putting him on the ice more, Last night he almost played 9 minutes.

That is up almost 4-5 minutes from the first couple of games.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 18, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very nice post – good work.

by Blue and White Expat on Oct 15, 2009 2:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent concept, very original post. Also, amazing comments so far.

People always talk about team toughness. Toughness doesn’t necessarily mean you have to drop the gloves every night. When I think of tough, I don’t think of the enforcers of the League… I think of little Dougie getting mauled every time he is on the ice, playing on a broken ankle and still scoring goals, I think of Clark defending his teammates and beating the opponents physically(and mercilessly) and then after his time in the box he scores a goal. I think of Tucker standing in front of the net taking hacks and slashes from the goalie, taking repeated crosschecks from the Defenceman, but still getting up and never taking his (crazy) eye off the play, then tipping in the power play goal. I think of Sundin skating around behind the net with two guys on him as he uses his free hand to power them off of him, I see him take a thunderous hit, get up and skate back to the bench but score on his very next shift.

THIS, my friends, is toughness. Fight when you have to and only if you are good at it… finish your checks and punish them for daring to touch your puck, and fighting through the waves of defenders while they try in every way to hold you back from your ultimate goal.

Not selfish body checks that put you out of position, not trying some fancy moves just to have the puck stripped from you. Don’t try stuff, DO stuff you know you can do.

As a famous Jedi Master once said “Do, or Do not… there is no try”

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Oct 15, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks.

Also, glove tab to Chemmy and/or PPP for the formatting tweaks.

by Fleet Fox on Oct 15, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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