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Great Job Ottawa!

The Ottawa Sun opens up Negative Nancy Notebook season with this gem:

There was plenty of hype around the decision by Toronto coach Ron Wilson to start goalie Jonas "The Monster" Gustavasson, but Daniel Alfredsson, on a penalty shot, and Shean Donovan scored for the Senators.

Apparently giving up two goals on 28 shots is terrible. Overhyped loser Jonas Gustavsson can't get the shutout he needs to win his debut behind a putrid performance by the Leafs. Generally if you start a sentence with "There was plenty of hype around (rookie player)" you'd end it with "but unfortunately the (rookie player) pooped his pants in the first period and later scored the Cup winning goal in game five for the other team". You know, something terrible and unforgiveable. Most people wouldn't say "there was plenty of hype around Gustavsson and aside from getting jobbed on two goals he was untouchable".

After losing a free-wheeling 5-2 decision to the New York Rangers Saturday at Madison Square Garden, the Senators tightened up defensively and didn’t give the Leafs much in the way of chances.

Senators score two against the Rangers and lose: bad game. Senators score two (one on a debatable high stick and one on the worst penalty shot I've ever seen awarded): good game. Enjoy your last year or two of Alfredsson Ottawa, though I'm sure you guys have lots of talent coming up through the system to replace Heatley and Alfredsson. I mean, you've got Alex Kovalev for two years. He can keep the puck away from Nick Foligno while skating backwards standing on it! (I'm not sure if that's a positive for Kovalev or a big negative for Foligno.)

Alfredsson, who was roundly booed by the good people of Toronto as he skated toward the net, deked Gustavsson and beat him with a backhander. It was Alfredsson’s third goal in six career penalty shot attempts.

To be fair Alfredsson is also roundly booed in his own building whenever the Leafs are in town. I'm not from Toronto and I'm not from Ottawa. In fact, I'm not from anywhere in Canada. I've been to Toronto and I've been to Ottawa. The main difference between the two cities is that in Toronto I didn't have to wade through a crowd of "homeless" people begging for change wearing Roots sweatshirts under their artfully mussed rags. I know Ottawa is boring at night but don't you guys think faking being homeless is going a little too far? Maybe some Ottawa entrepreneur should take a break from back dating stock options and consider opening up a bowling alley or a mini golf course, I dunno.

Star-divide

"We had the game in control for the most part. We got a little bit panicky in the last 10 minutes and Pascal made some big saves. The guys played extremely well in front of him for the first 50 minutes."

I'm not saying Toronto deserved to win last night, but I'd hold off on the accolades there Danny. Again, bad calls happen but for "having the game in control" Ottawa scored their first goal on a high sticked third rebound on blown coverage by our sixth d-man after our fifth d-man ran into our goalie who still made two saves, and their second goal on a penalty shot awarded when Schenn high sticked Michalek. In the NHL penalty shots are awarded, traditionally, for the following:

(ix)  Player on a breakaway who is fouled from behind - Table 13 in NHL Rule 25

That rule links to the possible infractions that could trigger said rule: Rule 54 - HoldingRule 55 - HookingRule 57 - Tripping, Rule 61 - Slashing, end of list. Notice how a high stick isn't on that list? It's not there because it would be pretty hard to high stick someone in the face while they were on a breakaway and you were behind them. 

To clear up a rumor I heard: Mike Komisarek did not get high sticked in the face in the third period and he wasn't shown bleeding on the bench. Komisarek is embarassed about having chronic nosebleeds and leaned in real close to an Ottawa player's stick when he felt one coming on so that it looked like he got hit.

Oh well, since this is the only time Kerry Fraser messed up a high stick call against the Leafs we can probably just let it slide. I'm not saying Toronto played well enough to win last night's game (the Monster excluded) but I'll be god damned if I'm going to listen to Senators fans say they somehow deserved that win.

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Oh Noes!!!1!

We have to suit up Johnny Bower and Turk Broda to play goal Saturday night to appease Sens hacks! [/sarcasm]

by RobOuttaSoCal on Oct 7, 2009 10:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Thank God

Now that the NNN is back this season has officially begun.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Oct 7, 2009 10:13 AM EDT reply actions  

amen

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

No other comment

Other than VERY happy to see the NNN is back.
Back to the CC to avoid hockey talk

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Truculence FTW

by leafer1984 on Oct 7, 2009 10:16 AM EDT reply actions  

ugh every single article on the game makes it sound like Gustavsson was a fault for the loss.
no mention of how bullshit either of the goals were

i hate the media

Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Oct 7, 2009 10:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Chemmy and I, using our TiVO DVR and in standard definition, were able to replay the first Ottawa “goal” and we could freeze it at the instant that Donovan’s stick hit the puck. At that moment, the puck is at Ian White’s eye level. Now Ian White is not a big boy, but at 5’10" and even with a little bend in his knees, he’s taller than the goal. I’m pretty sure the review board in Toronto has much better video equipment than I do with my TiVO. How do they get that wrong?

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

CONSPIRACY

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by JaredFromLondon on Oct 7, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its a bullshit interpretation of the rule, you can tell its higher then the crossbar in relation to the other players, but because the shot showing where he hit the puck is not in plain view of the crossbar they won’t overturn it.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

i could not tell where the puck made contact with the stick on my HDTV.

I can safely assume that it was in fact a high stick, but I don’t think the video replays showed irrefutable proof. Even the straight on angle wasn’t as conclusive as we’re making it out to sound, and like it or not, that’s the rule.

I agree that it was most likely a high stick because by all accounts it sure appeared to be. it’s a tough position to hold, but basically I think the league couldn’t over turn the call based on what they had to go off of.

hope that makes sense. i still don’t like the call, but I see where the league is coming from I guess. Maybe I’m just used to seeing the Leafs on the wrong end of borderline calls…

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

No I get why they didn’t make it, They could not see clearly the crossbar and the stick hitting the puck at the same time. Which is fine I guess (not really but I digress).

It’s just more annoying that when you piece everything together i.e where the puck does hit in some shots, in relation to players heights it would mean that it was a high stick.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

absolutely.

unfortunately, things like the laws of physics don’t factor in to these kinds of decisions.

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

That whole play was a shitshow. Exelby is a dope, White runs into Gustavsson, a high stick goal, ugh.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was destiny for all those mistakes to happen on the same play.

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

someone should set a slow mo replay of that entire thing to the Benny Hill Show theme song…

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Done

It’s been Benny Hillified!!!

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

brilliant

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

holy shit.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Oct 7, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm sound isn’t working for me..

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

What the hell.. Now that I am home it still doesn’t work right.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

it doesnt like you

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by JaredFromLondon on Oct 7, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s awesome! All of a sudden, last night’s loss is HILARIOUS! (Seriously – I’m watching the high stick goal and it’s priceless.)

Quick – load the whole JFJ era….

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Oct 7, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is old, but it will do just nicely.

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

What is great about this, is the little circus segment part of the song happens when Krusty is getting congratulated by his teammates

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Oct 7, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now THAT is how you write a NNN. Take notes kids. Good job sir.

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 10:20 AM EDT reply actions  

SPLURT.

Source?

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

link please

or is that personal opinion…?

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s a fact. If Gustavsson isn’t starting the Penguins are gonna be up 10-0 before the puck drops

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by Kevin Sellathamby on Oct 7, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where is it a fact? Did Wilson say something?

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

so?

should we put him out there in a game the only way we can win is if he steals it for us, or try to get the team to play better and let Toskala keep sinking?

"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero

by Karina on Oct 7, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK, so what does Wilson have to do to get things going?

Does Burke threaten each one of their jobs?

Do we get a Bozak/Hanson sighting?

Grabovski to the wing?

by birky on Oct 7, 2009 10:44 AM EDT reply actions  

I want to see Bozak and Hanson called up, and Blake and Grabovski sat.

If Stalberg is out for a few games, Blake will probably need to play, but Grabbo needs to learn to utilize his teammates and stop coughing up the puck by doing everything on his own. I love the guy, but it’s getting old…

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, Grabbo was making huge strides last year with his distribution he seems to have regressed and not have any faith in his line mates

Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Oct 7, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Grabs was great in the first game, maybe not so great the past 2, but is that gonna be enough to give him a ticket to the press box?

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

he’s always great against Montreal.

he needs to learn to be great against all the other teams in the league as well.

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Personally last night there were only 3 forwards who don’t deserve to be a candidate to sit out and that were Stajan, Mitchell and Stempniak

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by leafer1984 on Oct 7, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mitchell had a number of bad turnovers and missed assignments.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was rewarded to play top line after Stalberg got hurt. I thought he played a good game

Resident Cook and IT Superman
Truculence FTW

by leafer1984 on Oct 7, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

not to pile on, but Mitchell also seems to miss the net quite a bit with his shot. But I would agree that Stajan, Stempy, Mitchell were the only forwards that showed any life last night. Kulemin was ok, as well.

by Shack23 on Oct 7, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Grabovski’s biggest fan says that he needs to be re-united with Kuleimin and Hagman or Poni. Why fix it, over and over, if it’s not broke? Or are we attempting to make chemistry happen with every possible line combination there is?

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Oct 7, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Concur. I was thinking that last night.

Man-Grabs-Lemon Re-Unification. This needs to happen. Poni can play with Stajan.

by general borschevsky on Oct 7, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Poni can play in squirts where they don’t check.

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stajan on the power play. Rocket one timer.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Matt Stajan assisted by Kaberle and Beauchemin

Resident Cook and IT Superman
Truculence FTW

by leafer1984 on Oct 7, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bravo Chemmy

Saves me from having to support the local media here (such as it is) and read their biased interpretation of last night’s debacle.

Aside from Monster and a couple other players, the Leafs played an absolutely horrible game. If this is the best the SNES can do against us, I have no problem believing we can take it to them the rest of the season with much better efforts.

Being a Leaf fan here requires one to be sufficiently lubricated... and truculent!

by stucky on Oct 7, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Matt Stajan tied for fourth in the league in goals.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Because he’s awesome.

Unable to actually speak French since 1980.

by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just so you know you're not alone

There is now goaltending drama in Washington.

Varlamov let in 4 goals in the second, two of them being horrible, which means that in his last 6 contests, he has had at least a 3-goal period in 5 of them.

The other option at this point is Jose Threeorfour.

The calls for Michael Neuvirth are coming fast and furious.

"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"

by fat_daddyo on Oct 7, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions  

there is no goaltending drama in Toronto.

there is however, some difference of opinion on whether or not Toskala is so broken he’ll cease to of value come trade deadline. that’s the extent of the drama round here…

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed, the only goaltending “drama” is how many more kicks at the can toskala has before Gustavsson is anointed the number one spot

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by JaredFromLondon on Oct 7, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know what would be awesome? If Toskala regained his form as a backup in San Jose.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d buy that for a dollar

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by JaredFromLondon on Oct 7, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

one.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Oct 7, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay

As much as it pains me to say this, and oh lord it pains me, the Ottawa goals were deserved.

NHL Rulebook –

An apparent goal scored by an attacking player when any part of his stick makes contact with the puck above the height of the crossbar of the goal frame shall not be allowed.

Donovan, from what I saw, didn’t make contact with the puck above the crossbar. Even if he had, the puck then continued straight down, hitting the top of Gustavsson’s pad (outside the goal line) then bouncing in. I think, even if he had made contact above the cross-bar, because it hit a player and then bounced it it still would have counted.

NHL Rules for Awarding Penalty Shots

(ix) Player on a breakaway who is fouled from behind

Schenn was never once shoulder-to-shoulder with Michalek. Schenn was behind the entire way, and when he high-sticked Michalek from behind a penalty-shot was the right call. I’ve watched his about 30 times and Schenn was clearly behind on the play, but because he was so close behind it appeared he was shoulder-to-shoulder when he wasn’t.

Let the disagreements begin.

Unable to actually speak French since 1980.

by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

It still doesn’t explain the extra 2 minutes, which I can’t recall ever once seeing in the NHL. Did they calculate because there was blood, that an additional penalty had to be weighed? What is the “weight” value of a 1-on-1 penalty shot versus a 2 minute penalty?
Why oh why do these f—-ing things always happen to us.
I’m laying bets on this being a test case and the NHL will change the ruling in the future to not allow the second penalty.
At any rate, the general idea is not to give the opposing team either one of these opportunities in the first place. Barring that, just have Komisarek shoot that fucker Helmet-Head before the game.

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Oct 7, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

The rule is

Once a team is awarded the penalty shot, they have two options: Take the penalty shot, or take the 2 minute penalty. Because Schenn was given a double minor for high sticking, it counts as two penalties for all intents and purposes. Ottawa took the penalty shot for the “first”, and then got the 2 minute powerplay on the “second”.

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're wrong

about the high-stick rule. doesn’t matter if the goalie touched it. if he’d gloved it in, and it hit Goose on the way, it wouldn’t have counted. he can’t get credit for the goal after touching it illegally.

you’re also wrong on the schenn play. he was next to dinkface and shouldered him off the puck, aka “playing defense”. his stick clipped him which is a penalty, but no way a PS should have been awarded on the play.

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by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 7, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

PS:

I understand that it’s the crossbar height that’s the issue. In the replay (even the TSN panel admits this! Stop the presses!) that it was around shoulder-height for Whitey, who is at least 4’ tall.

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by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 7, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll grant you the gloved in comment, if indeed he gloved it in. To me it looked like the puck hit his stick, not his glove.

And no, he was not next to “dink-face”. Watch the Game In Six between 2:40 and 2:50 and it’s clear they are never shoulder to shoulder. Luke is behind him, lifts his stick and carries through to hard, which resulted in the high stick.

Unable to actually speak French since 1980.

by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

seriously, grapefruit, i watched the whole game and schenn was next to him. did not foul him from behind, nor grab or commit a stick infraction. and a high stick alone does not a penalty shot make.

also, the gloved in comment was to draw a comparison for frame of reference. obviously the issue was whether the stick was high, and in the replays it looked like it was. after he touches the puck, whitey waves at it at about shoulder height. puck at shoulder height, touched by stick, shoulder height taller than 4’, ergo a high stick.

Identical to Sergei Berezin in every way, only 1/10 his size.

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by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 7, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously.

Schenn, in my opinion, wasn’t beside the Ottawa player. I also watched the whole game, then I watched that replay many, many times before I posted.

With regards to the high stick, from what I could see the stick touched the puck below the crossbar, even though the swing started above the crossbar. It’s where the stick touches the puck that counts, and me, the ref and the guys in the video review room though it was below the crossbar. Don’t know what else I can say.

Unable to actually speak French since 1980.

by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok, well,

we’ll just have to disagree, even though you’re wrong. ;)

Identical to Sergei Berezin in every way, only 1/10 his size.

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by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 7, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

:)

Did you see DGB’s picture below?

Unable to actually speak French since 1980.

by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if he had, the puck then continued straight down, hitting the top of Gustavsson’s pad (outside the goal line) then bouncing in. I think, even if he had made contact above the cross-bar, because it hit a player and then bounced it it still would have counted.

I’ve seen senators fans argue this and it’s not true at all. You won’t find any mention of it in the rule book or people would be throwing pucks at the net, literally, and trying to bounce them in off of an opposing player.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Oct 7, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

You won’t find any mention of it in the rule book…

That is correct. Rule 61

A high stick must be played by the opposing team in order to nullify the high sticking. Must like a delayed penalty, simply coming into contact with an opposing player is not enough to nullify a high stick.

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough...

However, considering it wasn’t a high stick in the first place (seemed to make contact with the puck below the cross-bar) the point is semantic at this juncture.

Unable to actually speak French since 1980.

by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

isnt a puck knocked down over shoulder level with a stick qualified as a high stick and blown dead anyway? or is that a rule i am remembering from Peewee that doesn’t apply to the NHL

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by JaredFromLondon on Oct 7, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shoulder height is just used in the open ice for above goal level. The goal height determines all high sticking.

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by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah, well then, still shoulda been blown dead

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by JaredFromLondon on Oct 7, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think i can sum up this controversy in three words
it’s Kerry Fraser

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Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought both calls were fine.

The high-stick was close. Maybe not a goal, sure, but one of those sports plays that’s close enough that you can’t tear your hair out about it.

The penalty shot was absolutely the right call.

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by Down Goes Brown on Oct 7, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

i respectfully disagree

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by JaredFromLondon on Oct 7, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I am with Jared on this one. About the penalty shot anyways. I can see the view on the high stick goal (See above), but I do not think the penalty shot was the right call.

A penalty sure, obviously was a hook or a high stick. But he wasn’t free and clear of Schenn, another step or two and yes he would have been but Schenn hooked him before that.

And the rule isn’t to give someone a penalty shot that they maybe was about to get on a breakaway.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

You don’t need to be free and clear to be granted a penalty shot.

A penalty shot is designed to restore a scoring opportunity which was lost as a result of a foul being committed by the offending team, based on the parameters set out in these rules.

The rules are stated below. With the exception of high-sticking not being a penalty shot related offense, this (IMO) met the criteria for a penalty-shot.

Unable to actually speak French since 1980.

by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

The scoring opportunity was lost because Schenn tried to lift his stick in a defensive manner.

Michalek turned his body away from Schenn’s attempt to lift his stick, and Schenn caught him in the eye.

The breakaway scoring chance was nullified right there. Michalek sacrificed his “clear” scoring chance to try and protect the puck.

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by clrkaitken on Oct 7, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

face, not eye. whatever.

Resident Capologist

by clrkaitken on Oct 7, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hm alright I’ll concede that on a wording of the rules,

But in my opinion the infraction didn’t come from behind so it makes it a moo point.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like a cow’s opinion. It’s moo.

Unable to actually speak French since 1980.

by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Quiet Joey. Noone watched Friends because of you.

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the popularity of the Joey spinoff proved they loved him!

Right? Right? Hello?

Alright back on topic.

TOSKALA SUCKS!

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just doesn’t matter

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NHL rulebook doesn’t seem to think that a high stick can result in a penalty shot.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes it does
25.8 Infractions – Refer to the Reference Tables – Table 13 – Summary of Penalty Shots for a list of the infractions that shall result in a penalty shot being awarded (see specific rule numbers for complete descriptions).

There are four (4) specific conditions that must be met in order for the Referee to award a penalty shot for a player being fouled from behind. They are:

(i) The infraction must have taken place in the neutral zone or attacking zone, (i.e. over the puck carrier’s own blue line);

(ii) The infraction must have been committed from behind;

(iii) The player in possession and control (or, in the judgment of the Referee, clearly would have obtained possession and control of the puck) must have been denied a reasonable chance to score (the fact that he got a shot off does not automatically eliminate this play from the penalty shot consideration criteria. If the foul was from behind and he was denied a "more" reasonable scoring opportunity due to the foul, then the penalty shot should be awarded);

(iv) The player in possession and control (or, in the judgment of the Referee, clearly would have obtained possession and control of the puck) must have had no opposing player between himself and the goalkeeper.
Table 13 – Rule 25 – Penalty Shot
Summary of Penalty Shots

 Descprition

Rule

(i) Deliberate illegal substitution


Rule 68
(ii) Intentionally dislodging the net from its moorings during the course of a breakaway

Rule 63
(iii) Intentionally dislodging the net from its moorings when the penalty cannot be served in its entirety within regulation time


Rule 63
(iv) Falling on the puck in the goal crease

Rule 63
(v) Picking up the puck with the hand in the goal crease

Rule 63
(vi) Player on a breakaway who is interfered with by an object thrown or shot by a defending team player or goalkeeper


Rule 53
Rule 56
(vii) Player on a breakaway who is interfered with by a player or goalkeeper who has illegally entered the game

Rule 70
(viii) Player or goalkeeper throws or shoots an object at the puck in his defending zone

Rule 53
(ix) Player on a breakaway who is fouled from behind

Unable to actually speak French since 1980.

by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Penalties from which a penalty shot may be awarded

Found in the individual penalty descriptions as possible outcomes of an infraction

Tripping 57.3
Interference 56.6
Slashing 61.6
Hooking 55.5
Throwing Equipment 53.6

Nowhere in the high sticking section (Section 60) does it say that a penalty shot may be awarded as a result of a high stick.

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by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s strange.

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by Down Goes Brown on Oct 7, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. I wrote about it in the post up top. I don’t believe, based on reading the NHL rulebook, that awarding a penalty shot on a high stick is a legal play.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you mean to tell me that a referee tandem involving Kerry Fraser failed to understand the rules regarding a high sticking infraction, and the result was unfavourable towards the Maple Leafs?

Nope, never heard of such a thing.

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by clrkaitken on Oct 7, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m telling ya’ll it’s Sabotage

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by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

From Rule 60
Hooking

Although hooking can be classified as a stick-related foul, it has been placed in Section 7 – Restraining Fouls as Rule 55 as this tends to be the more prominent application of this rule.

I would think that because hooking can be awarded a penalty shot, and high sticking is a stick related foul, you can award a penalty shot for high sticking.

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by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh? They’re saying that you could hook someone’s stick but more likely you’d hook their body.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Although hooking can be classified as a stick-related foul

The key word here is although.

it has been placed in Section 7 – Restraining Fouls as Rule 55

The key word her is it has been placed in Section 7 – Restraining Fouls.

It’s not a stick foul, it’s a restraining foul. A high stick is a stick foul, not a restraining foul.

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by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fain ’nuff. I was reaching there anyhow :)

Can a ref call a double-minor using two penalties, or call two penalties on the same play? Like, if Schenn was hooking his stick which then resulted in a high stick, can the penalty shot was called on the hook and the penalty called on the high stick?

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by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

see below

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by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they go to the trouble of listing the fouls that can result in a penalty shot, and Schenn commits a foul that isn’t on the list, the ref doesn’t have the authority to circumvent the rules and award a penalty shot that’s not in accordance with the agreed-upon rules.

If I kill somebody, and my lawyer finds a technicality in the language of the law that exonerates me, the court can’t throw me in jail because “they meant to include that”. Either enforce the rules as written, or get rid of them altogether. Picking and choosing leads to me wanting to muss Kerry Fraser’s hair with blood and blunt force trauma.

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by clrkaitken on Oct 7, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rule ix specifies which penalties can trigger that infraction. None of them are “high sticking”.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rule ix isn’t a full list. It doesn’t include holding, and obviously you can’t tackle a guy on a breakaway without a penalty shot.

That said, the Holding section of the rules does mention penalty shots. High-sticking doesn’t.

Like I said, strange.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Oct 7, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing in the NHL rulebook says that high sticking can result in a penalty shot.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also despite the rules saying that the infraction has to come from behind a penalty shot is NEVER called when the players are that close.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was a bs penalty shot call, ’nuff said. high stick call was fair. should have been a double-minor.

besides, they got lucky that michalek was hurt. anyone actually think he scores on a ps? if Krusty the Clown wasn’t taking it it wouldn’t have mattered.

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by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 7, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

“What’s that? Our throwaway extra forward is hurt and can’t take the shot? Okay then, I’ll send our top scorer to take it instead.”

Convenient.

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by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 7, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

just like for goal #1 the stars aligned against the leafs. don’t you love being a fan of the damn unluckiest team in the world?

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by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 7, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Michalek made his next shift

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by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

he lost teeth and was bleeding from his mouth.

rules require that a player with an open cut must leave the ice and be stitched up before being allowed to return.

seriously, more is being made of this fact than need be.

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Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. I doubt he just randomly decided to make his own face explode just so they could get a slightly better chance to score on the penalty shot.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Oct 7, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

i seem to recall from the graphic they showed that Michalek actually had a better penalty shot/shoot out rate than Alfredsson, so they weren’t doing themselves any favors…

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by blurr1974 on Oct 7, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

The guy is a solid 20 goal scorer – he’s not a nobody.

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by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously?

Must have missed that. Honestly what I saw didn’t seem so bad. I didn’t see blood I just assumed there was a little because they classed it as a double minor.

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by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

There was blood on his jersey. Although the conspiracy nut in me thinks he bladed on the ice.

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by clrkaitken on Oct 7, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was taking care of my twin girls at the time of the game and there was plenty of times I had to turn away from the TV in order to help them with something so I really must have missed that.

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by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure about that, when I saw the play live (and thought it was a hook, not a high-stick) my first thought was “that’s a penalty shot”.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Oct 7, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mine wasn’t.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Schenn is clearly behind him, no?

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by Down Goes Brown on Oct 7, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

But it’s also not a clear breakaway.

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by clrkaitken on Oct 7, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s nobody between him and the goaltender, and the foul is from behind. That’s all the rule requires for it to be a breakaway.

(Putting aside whether a high-stick can be a penalty shot, obviously.)

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Oct 7, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hm alright after you posted that I went back and looked at the highlights package on Sportsnet. They showed the entire play from this angle and I have to admit it looked like he was past him.

I was under the impression Schenn was beside him and then Michalik lifted his left arm over or past Schenn after the fact.

Son of a bitch. After watching it again from that angle it does look like a Penalty shot.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Oct 7, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought it was a penalty shot because I thought Schenn was getting a hooking penalty. But if they decided to call a double minor high-sticking then it shouldn’t have been a penalty shot.

Resident Capologist

by clrkaitken on Oct 7, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

The game sheet

Doesn’t say anything about the penalty that resulted in the penalty-shot. The game story on NHL.com says it was awarded after a high stick, so maybe it was just a botched call.

Like Chemmy and Skinnyfish said, if they’d called a penalty-shot on the hook and a double-minor on the high stick it wouldn’t be an issue.

Well, it would have been an issue, but not like this :)

Unable to actually speak French since 1980.

by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

From our G Chat discussion:

Chemmy: shoulda called a hook and a high stick if they wanted

SkinnyFish: yup. that would have been fine. granted it would have resulted as a penalty shot and a 4 minute double minor, but it at least would have been within the rules.

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

See above :)

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by Pamplemousse on Oct 7, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Quick and dirty, but it gets the point across ;)

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by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

you guys

live together but talk about the game on G chat?

"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero

by Karina on Oct 7, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’re at work.
We don’t share a cubicle.
Would you like to share my cubicle?

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by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

sure, better yours than Chemmy’s

"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero

by Karina on Oct 7, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mine cube’s bigger and I have it to myself.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any word on how long Stalberg will be out for and why the Monster missed practice today?

by the cat on Oct 7, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Stalberg is out Saturday, Monster’s probably not practicing because they’re bag skating today.

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by Chemmy on Oct 7, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

My notes from the practice

Wilson skates onto the ice with a 5 gallon bucket full of pucks. He then goes over to the bench, dumps out the pucks, and places the now empty bucket at center ice.

Player: What’s with the bucket? What are we doing today coach?

Wilson: Skating until all of you lazy fuckers puke into the bucket and fill it up.

Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.

by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stalberg is out Saturday, Monster’s probably not practicing because they’re bag skating today and he played last night.

Fixed.

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by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 7, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank Chemmy. Re: Stalberg, not surprising, and Gustavsson, hope that’s all it is.

by the cat on Oct 7, 2009 1:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Goose had a bit of tightness in his groin

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by leafer1984 on Oct 7, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

his back is sore

from carrying the team.

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by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 7, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome post. Ottawa is full of homeless people and is incredibly boring. You think all those homeless people would make for some interesting games of dice or cock-fighting but even the homeless dudes in Ottawa are boring.

I have to admit that Schenn was a complete pylon that game. I still don’t get all the OLAS stuff (please don’t hurt me).
Gustavsson was a pleasure to watch.
The reffing was terrible.
That is all.

Go Houston Rockets!

by Duster on Oct 7, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I still don’t get all the OLAS stuff (please don’t hurt me).

It’s a shame that you missed last year.

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by PPP on Oct 7, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

All you need to know about Ottawa is that it has an above average number of unisex hair salons.

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by SkinnyFish on Oct 7, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

you can’t rag on Montreal because it’s a great city. But Ottawa…

Go Houston Rockets!

by Duster on Oct 7, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

great city, some really great people…when it comes to hockey many turn into douchebags

sorry les douchebags

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by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Oct 7, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

any

updates on whether Stalberg has a concussion? Or are they just taking precautions?

"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero

by Karina on Oct 7, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Chemmy

this is not going to help your campaign, do you want to be Mayor of Ottawa or not?

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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Oct 7, 2009 3:02 PM EDT reply actions  

First thing I’d do is finally make the Sens pay for the 417 on and off ramp they’ve been defaulting payment on since their shitty stadium was built. With 14% interest. Then I would institute a Sens fan tax.

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Oct 7, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

FUCK YO COUCH GARRIOCH!

Getting saltier by the post.

by ohshrit on Oct 7, 2009 11:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Lemon Corkscrew

My god PPP you are one Lemon Corkscrew – Bitter and Twisted. Stop crying about the Ref’s decision, suck it up and grow a pair will ya. There will be games when you get a decision go for you, thems the bounces its a long season.

I have also lived in Ottawa and Toronto and you obviously are an idiot of great magnitude, the only difference is we dont sit in traffic for 3 hours to get to work. We dont have murders reported every night and thankfully our bloggers are not cry babies!

My god are you 12 years of age sitting at home in your piss wet PJ’s holding on to your teddy bear that is often thrown out of the pram?

by Eado on Oct 8, 2009 6:41 AM EDT reply actions  

hahaha

Yeah, I’m the idiot of great magnitude? You’re brains so simple that you couldn’t figure out that Chemmy wrote this post.

God, why do we always get the fucking dumbest trolls here?

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Oct 8, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I know you don’t sit in traffic for 3 hours to get to work. But you do sit in traffic for 3 hours to get to the hockey game.

by Clawson on Oct 8, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

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