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Big Changes Coming?

Hello All!  First, what this post is not.  It is not about firing RW and it is not about Burke dismantling the team(just yet.)

This is about the Burkian philosophy of NHL teams.  6 forwards with the talent, 6 plumbers,  4 defencemen bearing most of the work load, 2 guys who will do the dirty work.  Obviously, it is not as cut and dried as that as you need to have some guys who can step up to that top 6 role on occasion, but lets be honest: 

The Leafs don't have that.  The Leafs are a team full of third liners and borderline 2nd liners(Kessel excluded.)  We have some major issues and our current roster and future prospects don't lend themselves to Brian Burke's model.

Star-divide

I have always been a cautiously optimistic, but realistic Leaf fan.  The hiring of Brian Burke went a long way in making me feel better about the direction in which this team is going.  Unfortunately it looks like he will have to spend the better part of 2-3 seasons reworking what he had in order to build something close to a contender.

Most of us expected this year to be a transition year.  Burke obviously wants to see how his team shakes out.  The 09-10 season is an experiment to determine a few things.

1.  Who is earning a spot on this team?  This includes FA's at the end of this year and players still under contract.

2.  Players defining their roles:  What is their potential?  Scorers, play-makers, shutdown players, etc...

3.  Development:  Which players have the potential to have their roles increased/decreased.

I am not going to rehash our organizational depth (mostly because I spent an hour doing just that on this post until the site blew up in my face and the so-called autosave function failed miserably) so you will have to look it up yourself.  Most of you know full well what it is like anyway. 

How many players do we have that are legitimate first liners, second liners?  Which of our prospects/young players have the ability to develop to that level?  How long will that take?

Let's face the facts here.  With what we have right now and going forward, how long is it going to be until we can ice a Stanley Cup competitor?

To fulfill Burke's vision he will need to be aggressive in the FA market - but that depends on if there will be enough quality players making it to market this year and next year.

Also, we are going to have to start dealing some players that don't fit into the future of the club.

If we don't re-sign any FA's and re-sign our RFA's, this is what our lineup will look like without any new FA's for next year:

 

Blake                      Kadri               Kessel

Hagman                Grabovski      Kulemin

Stålberg/Tlusty     Bozak             Hanson

Rosehill                 Mitchell          Orr

 

Kaberle                Komisarek

Beauchemin       White

Finger                  Schenn

Gustavsson

In a year's time, will this team be that much better/worse than what we have now?  Sure there is a ton of potential, but minimal experience.  If we re-sign some guys, how much better would our team be(if at all)?  Also, if we go with these young guys then we essentially wasted this year with the guys we decided not to bring back.

We can't predict how these players will develop and how long it will take them to get there.

Yes we still have the better part of this year to see how our current roster does, but that does not bode well for our ability to compete for a playoff spot next year. 

Simply put, Who will be our go-to forwards?  How many  Ponikarovskys, Kulemins, Blakes, Stajans, Stempniaks do you need on your team?  One or two of these guys on your second line might be acceptable, but to have the better part of your top two lines be these guys is ridiculous.  The potential of these guys have either been reached or nearly reached and that's just not good enough.

Sure, guys like Grabovski, Tlusty, Kadri and the College kids still have room to grow but expecting these guys to step in next year and take the reins as a big part of the top two lines is a serious mistake.

What the hell is our top two lines going to look like next year, and how can we expect to compete with what we have?

I am not too worried about our Defence.  The jury is still out on Gustavsson, but I have high hopes.  Some of our forwards have potential to be great, but potential really means nothing until it is realized.  I look at this team and I can't see them being good enough 3 years from now because they won't all blossom into really good NHL players.

Do I have a right to be worried? Comments are very much appreciated, maybe you guys can assure me with logic and words of insight and wisdom

Poll
What does Brian Burke need to do to make the Leafs a competing playoff team in 2-5 years?
Stay the course, develop what you have and tweak with FA's
15 votes
Aggressively rebuild draft picks and prospects - play as many of them you can to find the diamonds in the rough
6 votes
Trade away all of the players with duplicate functions - try and get elite Forwards through FA
30 votes
I have no fucking clue what to do any more
11 votes

62 votes | Poll has closed

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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Comments

Display:

 That 22 million we could have in the off season will come in handy

by 6rick6 on Nov 4, 2009 8:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

How many legit top 6 forwards will be on the market? That’s my big worry.

We certainly don’t need bottom 6 guys.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 4, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Top UFAs:
Marleau, Kovalchuk, Jokinen, Savard, Frolov, Armstrong, Rene Bourque.

Also some names of note: Boogaard, Afinogenov (if he keeps producing), Nittymaki (backup goalie), Belak (why not?).

They call me Splodeybones.

by SkinnyFish on Nov 4, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s assuming that none of those FA’s sign with their respective teams. Of that list I don’t really want Armstrong or Bourque. I can see Kovalchuk and Frolov re-signing with their teams.

I hate Kovalchuk, even though he is a goal scoring machine. How many of the goals he scores are negated by his on ice time resulting in a goal?

Jokinen seems like a really bad room guy.

Marleau and Savard are pretty much the only two I can see going after.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 4, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No Bourque or Armstrong? Bourque is showing that he is a 60-70 man this season and Armstrong is a Burke player to a tee. I like them better than Kovalchuk, Frolov, and Jokinen.

They call me Splodeybones.

by SkinnyFish on Nov 4, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The only way Frolov has a contract at the end of this year is if he’s traded – the Kings staff don’t like him and he doesn’t like them right now.

Baby goes crazy for a sharp dressed man

by Curt S on Nov 5, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Borque and Armstrong

centered by Mitchell.

giggity

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Genius in 140 characters or less.

by blurr1974 on Nov 5, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Poni – Marleau – Kessel
Man – Grabs – Lemon
Borque – Mitchell – Armstrong
Orr – Wallin – Premeau

/sigh

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Nov 5, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why do you think Kulemin’s already hit his potential? He’s only had one year in the NHL, I think he’ll improve still (although his ceiling would be 2nd line winger, I think)

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Nov 4, 2009 10:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

agreed, he has the potential to be a very serviceable 2 way winger, i see him as another Hagman only more physical

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Nov 4, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not that I have an issue with Kulemin, it is we have a lot of players who are essentially in that same mold of ‘great third liner/Ok second liner’.

I really like Kulemin’s hard checking game, but to be a legit 2nd liner he really needs to consistently hit the 20+ goal and 50+ point mark.

I DO, however, think Hagman is under utilized as a third line winger. He is a decent second line winger – not fantastic, but decent. He would be a 2nd line winger on a good chunk of the teams in this league.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 5, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have something like....

Blake Savard/Marleau Kessel

Hagman Kadri/Bozak (whoever’s ready) Kulemin

Ponikarovsky Stajan Grabovski

Rosehill Wallin/Mitchell Orr

by Theodles on Nov 4, 2009 10:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

my bad…switch grabovski with kulemin

by Theodles on Nov 4, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Here are my Leafs for next season:

Hagman – Savard – Kessel
Blake – Kadri – Kulemin
Ponikarovsky – Grabovski – Stalberg
Rosehill – Mitchell – Orr

Kaberle – Komisarek
Beauchemin – Schenn
White – Finger

Hopefully at some point during the season Bozak, Hanson and Tlusty will be able to step in to the lineup, though I have my doubts about whether Hanson is an NHL-calibre talent. At some point, we’re going to have to figure out what we’ve got in Tlusty and I think next season is probably when that will have to happen. Can he step in and fill the void left by Blake (snicker) the following season?

I feel like Hagman is a really underappreciated player and I’d love to see him play on a line that has a bonafide playmaker and a pure finisher.

Baby goes crazy for a sharp dressed man

by Curt S on Nov 5, 2009 8:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

i really want the leafs to find a way to dump blake and keep stempniak

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Nov 5, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That would be nice but if you have to keep Blake do you keep Stempniak? I don’t think Blake can be dealt, so unless the Pension is willing to send him to the minors and absorb that 4 mil then he’s probably a Leaf next year.

The whole problem with the Leafs (and this is no revelation, I realize) is that they have too much of the same thing. Too many third line forwards. Too many B+ defencemen. Too many developing but not developed prospects. While I’d rather have Stemp than Blake, I’d rather get rid of the duplicity and give a kid a chance than keep them both.

Baby goes crazy for a sharp dressed man

by Curt S on Nov 5, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually like the line up we would have without signing any FAs, minus it lacks Poni. I think its a good group which could be improved with 2 good FAs, thinking maybe Frolov and Savard or Marleau. Then we could have two lines with at least a threat or 2, and a bottom six who could be grinders, but with guys who could step up if needed (Hagman, Stemps, Kulemin)

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Nov 5, 2009 1:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think it’s too early to call who deserves a roster spot on this team, because they’ve all been pretty terrible up to this point. Losing has a way of making everyone look bad, just like winning has a way of making players look great. The truth lies somewhere in between, and after a dozen games we’ve witnessed some performances that are unlikely to be seen again this season (good or bad).

I think that Komisarek/Beauchemin have started to prove what I’ve suspected all along, that you always overpay for free agents, and that even when signing NHL veterans you’re never quite sure what you’re getting. I’d be wary of thinking that free agency is what’s going to build our core. Generally speaking, high-end UFA’s almost never make it to market (see: Rick Nash, Jay Bouwmeester).

Montreal literally just used their cap space to graft a few high-priced players to their core, and while they’ve been more competitive than the Leafs have been they’re still looking like a fragile team.

by koopa kid on Nov 5, 2009 5:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

You guys should run your scenarios through Capgeek.com’s cap calculator. Give our RFAs some raises and see what happens.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Nov 5, 2009 5:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Here’s a question: if Jonas takes the starting job, how much of a raise does he get? Toskala money? Less? More?

by koopa kid on Nov 5, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the rough calculations i did left the leafs with about 7 mill to sign UFAs, and thats if Macdonald is our back up and Gustavsson wants less than 3.5 mill

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Nov 5, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it’s sad that I’m hoping Blake continues to be bad so Burke’s hand is forced into waiving him.

by koopa kid on Nov 5, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

im thinking blake sticks this year unless burke finds a way to trade him (not likely) and gets a few games next year to see if he can rebound, then he spends the rest of his contract on the marlies with a call up to get claimed

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Nov 5, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that seems likely. Still, a guy can hope.

by koopa kid on Nov 5, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Blake is here for 2 more years :P

by Theodles on Nov 5, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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