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Around SBN: Tom Brady And The Confusing Pantheon Of QB Greatness

"They never quit. Those guys always skate hard, they forecheck hard. They might not be the most talented team, but they never give up."

The Washington Capitals' Alexander Ovechkin pays the Leafs a commonly heard compliment. The team is halfway to where it needs to be. Next up: becoming more talented.

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Comments

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sigh
my kingdom for a legit number one center

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Dec 13, 2009 10:09 PM EST reply actions  

Well, Ovie’s favourite NHL team growing up in Russia was the Toronto Maple Leafs, so maybe he has a soft spot in his heart to trade himself to the Leafs soon. I like my dreams like my obsession with Sophia Bush: unattainable.

Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell

by bkblades on Dec 13, 2009 10:12 PM EST reply actions  

Yes, I would love Ovie on the Leafs, but 9 million is almost 1/6th of the Salary cap.

Any team (including Pittsburgh) have a smaller window of winning the more large salaries you add because then you are trying to fill the pieces.

You don’t lose with your star players on the ice(unless you are playing Toronto, like last game ;) but you do lose by having low skill set guys against a team that has a more balanced approach.

Ovie can’t play 60 minutes – though he does try

"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 13, 2009 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, very few players are worth that, Ovie might just be one though

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Dec 13, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

To be honest I’d rather be competitive for 6 years and win the cup towards the end of that than be ubergood for 3 years, win the cup in that time then lose your team and start on the shit pile again for 3+ years.

I’ll take a cup either way, but I prefer great hockey and a cup over a longer term than unbelievable hockey over a short term and one cup

"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 13, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

well yah, if the choice was say Zetterberg and datsyuk or ovie id take the two

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Dec 13, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps, but you’re playing a game that hasn’t yet completed. Yes, Pittsburgh and Wahington will have problems re-signing all their players, but it isn’t as impossible as you’re making it out to be in my mind. Prime example to all this is Chicago’s situation right now.

Everyone is saying that the ‘Hawks needs to lose X number of players to fit the salary cap and as a result, Chicago will be a so-so team again. But Chicago will lose players that aren’t that essential to their team. Byfuglien, Sharp, Sopel, Burish, etc. are all good to great players, but Chicago has a slew of prospects ready to fill the ranks and more importantly, play at entry level contracts. Maybe their depth will take hit immediately, but in the long run, I don’t think it makes a huge difference for them.

If a team is able to draft well, make prudent signings, and trade effectively, a team can easily afford Ovechkin and build a perennial contender.

Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell

by bkblades on Dec 13, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Ray Shero’s done a good job in Pittsburgh identifying depth and role players on the cheap to fit in his oversized contracts. Sykora was an amazing signing for a couple of seasons, Guerin looks solid, Dupuis has been about as good as he can be. Hal Gill was a cheap top 4 option that gets a lot of flak but did exactly what they needed him to do.

They’ve got the talent locked down, and hard work can be found on the cheap all around the league if one knows where to look. The two combined are pretty potent.

Saying “They might have stone hands, but man do they work with them” with regards to the Leafs might seem like a backhanded compliment, but in my mind it’s an essential part of the equation for a winning team. All we need now is for Kessel/Kadri/Gustavsson to not bust on us, and maybe one big free agent signing, and we’re covered.

Hopefully that’s not too much to ask.

by koopa kid on Dec 13, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

This argument is fallacious

I’m sorry, but Chicago currently only have 16 players under contract for next season and they are $3.8 million over the freaking salary cap.

They have to have 24 or 25 players under contract next season, and they need to CUT salary… how the hell do you think that’s likely to happen? They can’t sign prospects to play for NEGATIVE income.

If they lose Byfuglien, Sharp, Sopel, and Burish, they only save $9,233,333 million under the cap. That puts them $5,351,998 under the cap… with 13 players under contract. Do you honestly expect them to sign 10+ players for under $5 million and not see any observable drop off in skill level?

Oh that’s right, they’ll just call up all those skilled youngsters. Uh Oh… contracts. Kyle Beach = $1.2 million a year, Akim Aliu = $845,833 a year, Jake Dowell = $525,000 a year. There goes $2.5 of your $5 million on 3 freaking “youngsters”, and you still need about 9 more guys for less than $2.5 million.

Let’s just ignore the fact that they will also have to let John Madden, Andrew Ladd, Ben Eager, Colin Fraser, Jordan Hendry, and Niklas Hjalmarsson walk to make these numbers make sense. Oh and they still have no back up goalie under this plan for Huet. Niemi is making $826, 875 a year, and to qualify him they have to offer him a raise.

There’s absolutely no way in hell they can keep the majority of their “core” together if they plan on icing a team that’s as competitive as you’re thinking.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 13, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

in other words, they are every so boned

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Dec 13, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

BINGO!!!!

The vultures are circling around the Blackhawks trying to pick out the players they would like to have. I hope Burke is doing his due diligence. The fact that Chicago is over the cap means they are looking for draft picks and with the loss of many of our high picks we are really behind the eight ball. Burke is in tough and hopefully he can make something out of nothing. One things for sure, Burke has a keen eye for talent.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Bringin' The Pain Since 2009

by LeafFan1989 on Dec 13, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

They might want draft picks

but if I was the rest of the NHL I Wouldn’t hand them over easily.

I’d actually think it would be in Chicago’s interest to trade expensive players for a variety of cheaper ones.

In fact, they probably want to hold on to their younger RFA players, and trade the more expensive older players who are already under contract.

Really this entire problem is solvable if they can move Brian Campbell… but his contract is virtually untradeable.

God that move makes the Jason Blake signing look reasonable.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 13, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea but there are very few teams that have the money to be able to take on a large contract and the NHL has a problem with the buying a draft pick deal as well since no team is going to take on contracts wthout incentive in the cap world. At the time, the campbell signing was not too too bad. Blake signing was doomed to fail. I would put campbells signing up there with the Gomez and drury signings while Gainey takes the cake for trading for Gomez.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Bringin' The Pain Since 2009

by LeafFan1989 on Dec 13, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I still don't know why the Blake signing

is qualified as an abject failure.

He’s making $4 million a year. Michael Ryder is making $4 million a year, Nik Antropov is making $4.0625 mill a year, and Joffery Lupul is making $4.25 mill a year.

Lupul has 10 goals and 14 points. Antropov has 4 goals and 25 points. Ryder has 8 goals and 14 points. Blake has 5 goals and 19 points. He’s pretty much in the middle of the production for that group, and those were the names I pulled off the first three teams in the NHL alphabetically that seemed comparable to me.

He isn’t a failure, he’s produced 52 and 63 points as a Leaf so far, and this year he’s on pace to produce another 50 or so.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 13, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Public sentiment reigns over numbers or hard work. Blake earned his reputation as a waste of cash and a malcontent in his first season here. You know, the one he found out he had cancer in. He’s done everything we can ask from what’s essentially a sick guy in his late thirties.

He was also signed for a season that Leafs Nation expected to make the playoffs in. A lot of the negative feelings around that team’s collapse has rubbed off on Blake, deserved or no. The fact that he was a JFJ signing can’t help.

Plus $4 million seemed like a lot more back then, a lot of strange things have happened post lockout in terms of contract inflation moving into cap hit circumvention.

by koopa kid on Dec 14, 2009 4:12 AM EST up reply actions  

The problem with Blake’s contract isn’t the annual salary it’s the term.

He’s signed through to 2012-13. In the final year of his contract he’ll be 39 years old. Odds are his production will have dropped off to near nil at that point yet he’ll still be consuming a large portion of the cap.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Dec 14, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 14, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

F**K you JFJ

"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 14, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

You're silly

My trade “dream” involves Ovechkin tearing up his current contract and signing a new 1000 year contract where the cap hit is $100,000/year.

Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell

by bkblades on Dec 13, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s only 100 million over 1000 years

He’s got what, a 90 million contract for 10 years?

You would have to bump it up to a Billion over 1,000 years and his cap hit would be 1mil a year

"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 13, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Look Mr Sandman, you won’t ruin my nonsensical dreams again.

Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell

by bkblades on Dec 13, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really nonsensical

just a logical extension of what the existing teams are doing. You offer him the Billion dollar contract over 1000 years, front loaded to pay him a whole lot of cash up front (so he takes home his 10 mil a year), and at some point he retires, and his cap hit goes with it… Until the NHL close the fricken loophole by forcing retired players contracts to stay on the cap.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. I think I need a drink now.

by Wan Ihite on Dec 14, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Nah…it is nonsensical =P

The contracts have to be sensible in that it’s likely that the player will still be playing.

Ergo, you can’t sign someone for 1000 years because they team can’t show that they intend for that player to still be playing in 1000 years…he’ll be dead….so unless the team unveils some kind of Extendo-Life-O-Matic, the contract won’t go through.

Signing until the player is 40-41-42….is probably the limit.

by Theodles on Dec 16, 2009 2:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice.

This is precisely what I want to hear about the Leafs from other players.

Why do we do this to ourselves?

by Kenjamin on Dec 13, 2009 10:19 PM EST reply actions  

Getting the talent part is easy

It’s EFFORT which is truly hard, and we have that down pat! Am I right? Anyone..? ..Nobody?

by SPENCEMAN on Dec 13, 2009 10:50 PM EST reply actions  

Getting bad players to play hard isn’t so difficult
Getting TALENTED players to buy in hard… trickier.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. I think I need a drink now.

by Wan Ihite on Dec 14, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

The hard work can be attributed to the coaching staff. Leafs have worked hard most nights ever since RW and his staff came in last year. They have managed to remove the country club attitude and built a blue collar team that prides themselves on outworking the competition.

Kudos to the coaches for getting this team to be MORE than the sum of its parts.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Bringin' The Pain Since 2009

by LeafFan1989 on Dec 13, 2009 11:07 PM EST reply actions  

This

is exactly why I get annoyed everytime someone suggests that Burke fire RW. This team may not have the talent, but they work their asses off night in and night out.

by Huey2k2 on Dec 13, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions  

It would also be nice

if some people started recognizing that a few of the parts are worth holding on to.

Aside from Kessel and perhaps Gustavsson, there’s also Grabovski, Kulemin, Schenn, and Gunnarsson to look forward to.

They also have Hagman and Orr for the time being, and Kaberle for another year.

Then there’s the positive impact of Ponikarovsky, White and even Matt Stajan.

That’s looking more and more like a reasonably respectable start to a core for the future.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 13, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem now is that all the free agents will be looking for raises while only Stempniak can possibly be resigned for less. I’m not sure about Stajan though, its his second year in a row putting up good numbers so you cant call it an outlier. But is he ever gonna be close to a ppg player?

Toronto Maple Leafs: Bringin' The Pain Since 2009

by LeafFan1989 on Dec 13, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

he's a PPG player

so far with Kessel in the line up. If he can maintain it, he’s doing a decent job so far in almost 20 games.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 13, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Stajan is a perfectly good player but I am fairly certain he will get a big pay increase in the summer and he isn’t worth it IMO.

The only guys I would personally resign are Gustavsson, Kulemin, and Hanson. I would also resign Joey Mac, Poni, and Primeau if we can get them all for cheap, no more than $3.5mil for Poni as far as I am concerned, Primeau and Joey Mac for around $1mil each would be ideal.

by Huey2k2 on Dec 13, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

He isn't worth a raise

but he’s a ppg player? How does that make any sense. Believe me, I’m a HUGE Stajan opponent based on his play up to this season, but I’m finding it hard to question his production so far this season. He’s playing well in a contract year which is a bit of a problem, but he could also just be developing as an NHLer. If he ends up with over 70 points this season, he deserves a raise, and he’ll probably get it.

I think if he can put up those sorts of numbers, he’ll probably ask for around $4 million or more a season. I would think if the Leafs can sign him for $4 mill a year, that’s not really a ridiculous amount for a guy that has produced a 70 point season after a 55 point campaign. Obviously a lot of this depends on his continuing production and synergy with Kessel. If the Leafs continue to improve, and he’s a large part of the reason, I don’t know how they can deny the idea of bringing him back.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 13, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

for me, it depends on the term of the contract, and where we see Bozak, Kadri, Grabovski fitting in. Are we giving Bozak his shot at the NHL next year? Then Stajan can’t fit either way. If not, we want Stajan in the line up, $4 mill for 2 years would work, but anything longer wouldn’t make much sense.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Dec 13, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the issue is Kadri probably doesn't step in next year unless he steals a job

He’s going to be brought along slowly. Burke doesn’t believe in just shoving kids in the line up so they can make or break themselves.

If Bozak develops enough to fight for a top 6 forward spot, then he and Grabovski likely fight with Stajan for the top 2 spots. Stajan is still only 25 years old, and Bozak is 24… I’m not sure why we would switch to the guy who has yet to play 2 games in the NHL when we have a guy that’s played 421 games in the NHL and is now on pace to produce around 70+ points as a top-six NHL forward.

Grabovski is the same age, and he isn’t producing ahead of Stajan, but he obviously has offensive skill. Again he’s ahead of Bozak in his development. I honestly am beginning to think the Bozak signing was intended to light a bit of a fire under the asses of the incumbent players. Now they’re playing well, and it’s hard to argue that they don’t deserve to stick around.

I don’t think Kadri or Bozak get into the line up until they can prove they deserve to be ahead of Grabovski and Stajan.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 13, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, but we need the cap space for Bozak’s potential bonuses. If we re-sign Stajan at $4 mill do we have the space? It would be best to have both of them, I’m just not sure how to make it work.
I don’t think Kadri will be up next year.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Dec 14, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Ok here's how I see it working right now...

If Stajan comes back around $4.25 mill a year, and Poni for about $3.75 mill a year, the Leafs call up Bozak and Stålberg to play 2nd/3rd line roles currently filled by Stempniak and Primeau. That means they’re replacing $3.9 million with Bozak and Stålberg’s $4.575.

So the Leafs are adding $675,000 in salary with the kids, and the salaries of Stajan and Poni jump by around $4.145 million. That combines for an extra $4.82 million a season, and they still have to re-sign Kulemin for probably around $2 million… that’s an added $512,500 a season, so their cap hit goes up by $4,657,500 and they still have to figure out who replaces Jamal Mayers, and Wayne Primeau.

Losing their salaries drops things again by $2,733,333 again, so they’re only up a net $1.92 million. Andrew Raycroft’s buyout comes off the books, so that’s another $733,333 in savings bringing it back to an increase of $1.19 million or so.

Toskala is gone so his $4 mill is off the books, but they need to re-sign Gustavsson, and he probably gets a raise on his $2.5 million. Either way at this point things are a wash.

Decisions have to be made on Mitchell, Hanson, and White… but at this point – YES those signings can be made and the Leafs will fall under the cap still.

If they trade any other players towards the deadline then space may be opened up.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 14, 2009 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

woops I counted Primeau twice in that whole deal

too much money moving around… anyway… I think it’ll come close to balancing out at this point, but yeah it’ll be tight, and if they want to rebuild the roster, I don’t know how they can do it by giving guys raises.

I think if they can get Poni and Stajan to both sign for under $4 mill, they’ll be doing a lot better.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 14, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

The one thing I think the Leafs HAVE to do this off season

if they don’t do it at the deadline…

is TRADE TOMAS KABERLE. He’s making a reasonable amount at $4.25 mill a season… but if they can trade him for high draft picks or prospects, and fill his spot on the roster for next season by giving White a comparable contract… then they’ll be much further ahead.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 14, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree with trading Kaberle…he’s our best bet to get a good return. I think you have to keep Poni and Stajan too. Poni is an excellent player for his pay, and Stajan has the flexibility to play either top-six or bottom-six in Burke’s system. I also think you can re-sign them for a hometown discount.

by Kohma on Dec 14, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Steve, it’s fascinating that you’d move Kaberle at $4.25 but not Stajan.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Dec 14, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

i'd move both

but I think Stajan’s age (26 this Saturday) vs Kaberle’s (32 in March of 2010) is playing a factor here.

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Dec 14, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

If the price was right, I’d trade Stajan faster than a Phil Kessel release. Kabs too.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Dec 14, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

absolutely

and a 2nd would be good for me. Considering both Antropov and Moore went for 2nds, and Stajan is looking more Antropov-ian than Moore-esque

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Dec 14, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

yah, Antro also netted a 4th, but it was conditional, and the Rags shat the bed in the post so the leafs never got it

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Dec 14, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Uhh I’m pretty sure Gustavsson’s only making $900,000 ($810,000 + $10,000 signing bonus)

by PassivelyTruculent on Dec 14, 2009 4:38 AM EST up reply actions  

  • ($810,000 + 90,000 signing bonus)

by PassivelyTruculent on Dec 14, 2009 4:39 AM EST up reply actions  

There is no doubting that ~$4million a year is a great deal for a 70 point guy, but I honestly believe that if he does produce 70 points this year that $4million is on the low end of the kind of deal he might get from someone in the offseason.

There’s also the fact that none of us have any idea whether he will be able to maintain that level of play and stay a 70 point guy. He’s been in the league for what 5 or 6 years now? and has only managed to produce a 50+ point season once. Maybe he could be rounding out into that 70 point guy or maybe he is just having a flash in the pan year.

by Huey2k2 on Dec 14, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I am not so sure. We all know how other fans and writers underestimate players that wear the blue and white so it wouldn’t surprise me if GMs did the same.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Dec 14, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

We also overestimate them.
Just sayin’

by PassivelyTruculent on Dec 14, 2009 4:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Are you kidding? You’re replying in a thread of people discussing what a terrible problem it is to have a 25 year old centre from Toronto putting up good numbers, and how he’s probably going to bust.

by koopa kid on Dec 14, 2009 5:23 AM EST up reply actions  

By overestimate I mean their trade value, some really strange trade proposals get thrown around.

by PassivelyTruculent on Dec 14, 2009 6:13 AM EST up reply actions  

true of every fan base in the league

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Dec 14, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I think we can all agree

That the whole Stajan situation will be solved one of two ways:

1) We sign Stajan for around $4million a season to a multi-year deal after a career season and he will proceed to fizzle out and be highly overpaid.

or

2) We let him walk and some other team signs up for around $4million a season and he lights up the league and everyone talks about how it was a huge mistake for us to let him walk for years to come.

Either way I am sure we will lose.

by Huey2k2 on Dec 14, 2009 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

My soul has been crushed with truth.

by Vent on Dec 14, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

There is a third option – Leafs trade Stajan at the deadline for a 2nd round pick.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Dec 14, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

this is the option i want.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Dec 14, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I fear option three will inevitably become a mixture of options 1 and 2, that is, Stajan goes on to light up the league and we draft a Berehowsky.

by Vent on Dec 14, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Stajan having chemistry with Kessel seems unlikely to matter

Consensus seems to be he’s a competent second line center, but Kessel is a first liner if ever we had one. Once Kessel gets a REAL playmaking center (like all the elite wingers we found for Sundin, ahem), there becomes the question of how many points Stajan is racking up centering lesser wingmen. I don’t know how many it will be, but I’m guessing not a point per game.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. I think I need a drink now.

by Wan Ihite on Dec 14, 2009 1:41 AM EST up reply actions  

To expand on what I was saying a little.

I think Poni is a more superior player than Stajan is and if I had to choose 1 or the other to resign it would be Poni.

They are roughly equivalent as far as point production goes, Stajan is more of a playmaker than Poni is that is for sure. But Poni is a big body and he seems to be flourishing under RW’s coaching, plus he seems to finally be using his big body a lot more and is actually finally going to the net. Poni is also a career +58 in the NHL and hasn’t had one season as a – player, Stajan is a +2 player and has had a couple – seasons.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t think Stajan is a bad player, I just think that they are both going to give you roughly the same thing, but Poni fits a lot better into the style of game Burke is trying to put into place.

by Huey2k2 on Dec 13, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

It should be remembered that

Ponikarovsky is 29, while Stajan is still only 25. When Poni was done his season at the age of 25, he had played 197 NHL games, and he had produced 33 goals, 42 assists and was +34 playing alongside Sundin and Antropov.

Stajan has 421 games of NHL experience so far and he turns 26 in 6 days. So far he has produced 82 goals and 125 assists, and he’s a combined +2 after playing for years alongside a variety of checking forwards, and the likes of Darcy Tucker and Jason Blake. He’s finally gotten a legit shot over the past two years as a top line Centre, and he’s improving and growing into the role.

He’s in the top 30 in the NHL in number of face offs taken and won. He’s playing as a point per game player. He appears to be playing a solid defensive game. I really don’t have complaints with his play over the past month.

He might be inferior all around to Ponikarovsky right now, but he’s also 4 years younger, so I think he’s got room to continue to improve.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 14, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Good point.

I am just worried that we will throw a bunch of money at him and then have him fizzle out.

by Huey2k2 on Dec 14, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Thats what i’m afraid of too. At 25 you are starting to reach your prime as an NHL player and I just don’t know. If he can get signed to a Grabovski type contract then its a good deal IMO. I think 3.5 for 4 years is a good deal for Stajan.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Bringin' The Pain Since 2009

by LeafFan1989 on Dec 14, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Well there’s a whole lot of “if” in that sentiment. If Stajan continues to put up PPG numbers, if we throw a wad of cash, and then if two seasons of NHL production are smoke and mirrors.

Stajan broke out when he turned 25, which is actually a perfectly reasonable age to see a spike. He’s also had to earn his top minutes this season over Grabovski and Wilson’s ridiculous attempts to thrust Mitchell into the role. It’s not like there aren’t any other centres in the organization.

I really, really don’t see the big deal about Stajan’s potential future. If he earns his payday, we pay him. If he doesn’t earn the money and wants it, we trade him. If he fizzles out, we bury his money in the minors.

The worst thing we could do is pencil Bozak and Kadri into roles they haven’t earned, and for money that we might not even need to pay them. Stajan’s a known commodity that’s been developed by this organization for years, and he’s jumped on the opportunity to play a bigger role now that our vets have gone. Other fanbases would be ecstatic about the rise of a hometown boy like Matty.

by koopa kid on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Here's an interesting thing to consider

Cost of Chicago’s top 6 forwards this season: $19.808 million. Production = 48G, 64A, combined +44.

Cost of Toronto’s top 6 forwards this season: $19.155 million. Production = 61G, 72A, combined +21.

Are we really that much worse off when one considers the difference between Cristobal Huet and Vesa Toskala/Jonas Gustavsson in net?

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 13, 2009 11:44 PM EST reply actions  

WOW!!! if thats the case then our top 6 aren’t as crappy as originally deemed and now that Chicagos gonna have major problems ahead, our top 6 looks much much better.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Bringin' The Pain Since 2009

by LeafFan1989 on Dec 14, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

It's a bit misleading on my part

since Hossa has only scored 4 goals and 5 assists in 9 games… making him a point per game player. If he’d been healthy all season you could probably add about 15 goals and 15 assists to the Chicago totals (spread amongst the other players in addition to Hossa).

That would make them 63 G, and 79 A… so yeah they’re better than us… but they get a lot more expensive next season.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 14, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Or how about this one

Cost of Washington’s top 6: $20.398 mill. Production = 73 G, 88A, +44.

That’s a more solid “top-six”… it’d be hard to top that production. But the funny thing is, Fleischmann, Fehr, Backstrom, and Semin are all RFA’s after this season. Only Ovechkin and Laich provide them cost certainty… and if the other 4 guys get raises… wow they’ll be expensive.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 14, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Backstrom probably gets

around $4.5 million. Semin gets around $5 million. Fleischmann, and Fehr probably get around $2.5 or $3 million.

That’s an increase of $6 million a year.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 14, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

if Backstrom only get $4.5 mill, I’ll be stunned.
Kid’s the real deal, only he’s in Ovechkin’s shadow.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Dec 14, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I Agree

Yes they are RFA’s but if that kind of money gets offered to Backstrom – say hi to Arbitration..

Yes you can defend by saying he is feeding the best player in the league, but move the glare of Ovie away a bit, you will see how bright Backstrom really is.

I see Backstrom and Semin getting around 5.5 each per year.. obv this depends on how much term they will accept.

"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 14, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

And plus

our guys may score a bunch of points against bad teams and/or offensively oriented teams (see Capitals, Washington), but they just don’t have the juice to do anything against good defensively oriented teams (see Boston, futility of). We need a good power forward who can bulldoze through those teams and make space for kessel if we want to be able to beat them… And we may (MAY) be able to make playoffs without being able to beat these teams, but that would be our ceiling.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. I think I need a drink now.

by Wan Ihite on Dec 14, 2009 1:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Wan Ihitie’s point touches on a real challenge of the cap – do you spread the cap hit around and try to score by committee or do you pay a premium for a small group of so-called high-performance players and surround them with cheap(er) options?

The numbers Steve put up show that the aggregate results can be similar, but it would be really interesting to know what’s more likely to produce playoff success (when d tightens up and goals are at a premium).

As games against Boston and Buffalo have demonstrated, the Leafs don’t have the talent to generate offense against teams that can shut it down. I don’t know that pumping larger dollars into the likes of Stajan, Poni and Stempniak will change that.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Dec 14, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

There are advantages and disadvantages to both…

with the Elite/plug system, you lose one of your elites for 4 weeks and up, you are seriously hurting the team.

With the Great/good system, you lose a guy, you can somewhat compensate because you have guys who don’t need to step up too much to keep pace.

"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

This made me laugh.

"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into Iraq"
- Major Mike Shearer

by article1 on Dec 14, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I tend to

stay away from the contract talk and all that stuff

by Marc Pilgrim on Dec 14, 2009 1:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I like to think that every day Kyle Wellwood and Andrew Raycroft wake up and look at this .gif first thing in the morning.

by koopa kid on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Who are you kidding, the first thing Wellwood sees in the morning is a sandwich.

by PassivelyTruculent on Dec 14, 2009 4:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Not even a sandwich...

but a a tub of ice cream, cake, chocolate, and mayonase.

by Marc Pilgrim on Dec 14, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

with Whip cream to top it off.

by PassivelyTruculent on Dec 14, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

His Fat cheeks

"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

They always mad cuz i got me some bathing ape

Space Weed Says Telling it like it is without a care about the mainstream's feelings
"DO NOT get stuck behind Kyle Wellwood in the buffet line. This isn't really etiquette, but it will prevent you from starving to death"- Down Goes Brown on Etiquette for Jason Spezza's wedding

by Kevin Sellathamby on Dec 14, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that was a misquote.

I read it in another source that it was attributed to someone else. And really, OV can’t speak that good.

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 14, 2009 9:30 AM EST reply actions  

He can’t spell that well.

As per new community rules; all signature tags on PPP must contain the word "truculent".

(843): the red head has a bf
(1-843): just because there's a goalie doesn't mean u can't score

by Wrap Around Curl on Dec 14, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Steve seems to have eviscerated me here

But I didn’t bother to come back in time. My apologies for not defending my poorly constructed argument about Chi-town. And I guess explain my poor attempt at a joke with Ovechkin.

Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell

by bkblades on Dec 14, 2009 11:44 PM EST reply actions  

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