Amidst the Anger and Confusion: Stay Together For The Kids
Editor's Note: Fleet Fox uses his final day of 2009 to make the case for patience and stability in Leafland using our nemesis Buffalo as a case study.
This post is about why the Leafs should try to be a bit more like their Sabre neighbors, and hang on to all but a couple of our players. I know that this idea, upon its initial suggestion on this site was met with the obvious "if the team's broke, we fix it" response, but let’s indulge in a little crazy talk for a few minutes. Just a Fox’s food for thought.
First, however, I’d like to make a few things clear. I am not condemning trades, free-agent signings, or any other kind of roster move that will help our team. Furthermore, I am not in denial about the mediocrity of our current team, or the vast majority of its players; I have no delusion that any team could ever evolve into a Cup contender by player development alone. This post cannot be used in the justification for keeping any individual player; each case needs to be evaluated on its own. Lastly, I should acknowledge that the information that I have gathered here in these tables proves absolutely nothing, and that it only provides a starting point for discussion. With these points in mind, I would like to make a case for keeping the vast majority of our Leaf team together.
You see, I was ruminating the other day about how often we (on this website and elsewhere) discuss the value of our players to other teams (or lack thereof) at the trade deadline, the off-season, or next season, and I got thinking about how this affects team morale, player cohesion, and the attractiveness of the workplace to outside talent. As much as being a National Hockey League player is a dream come true, it’s a lot like any other job in three important facets:
- As an employee, you aren’t necessarily friends with, and nor do you necessarily look up to, your highest paid or most talented co-worker. Your friends are your friends, and if they leave the workplace, it’s a bummer. (For example: Jason Blake surely misses the time spent spooning with Dominic Moore.)
- If you have established a good work ethic with a given group of people, the longer you work together, the better you get at working with them.
- A stable workplace is an attractive one – especially for young families. I can’t tell you how many well-qualified, young-to-not-so-young parents I have met in teachers’ college looking for stable work.
What I mean is that as much as trades can disrupt a negative environment, they can most definitely disrupt a good one. One team that seems to understand this concept, and in my opinion, is a good model for rebuilding, is the Buffalo Sabres.
Don’t trade so many players, don’t sign so many free agents, and don’t trade so many picks. It’s hard not to do, especially in the pressure-cooker-Vatican-hot-seat, but it’s a simple strategy that Buffalo has ridden to the top of our division once again this season, for the second time since the lockout (See Table 1: they finished first in the East with 113 P in 2006-07, and tied for first overall with Detroit). Yes, this season is far from over, but they are having a good season regardless. I think several facts support this Sabre-centric point of view:
- See Table 2: The Sabres have signed the fewest FA’s and RFA’s of any team in the NHL since the lockout: 9! Only 9 players over four years! And that’s including the crazy lockout-comeback year. For the sake of comparison, the Islanders signed 8 FA’s in just the first year back. The Leafs have not gone too overboard since the lockout, signing only 14 players. The difference of course, is quality/quantity. We have signed, and since ditched, Pavel Kubina, Hal Gill, Scott Clemmenson, Eric Lindros, Jason Allison, Michael Peca, along with a host of other plugs that were deemed expendable. They’re not all bad deals, of course, but we have to look back to Ed Belfour as the last great player we signed as a free agent. Patch the odd hole with a FA? Sure. Find your next savior? Not so likely.
- Again, in Table 2: The Sabres have re-signed the most players of any team in the NHL since the lockout: 30! They only other team to come close to them in this regard is San Jose with 29, who, incidentally, are an OK team as well. The Leafs have re-signed about half that number of players since the lockout at 16. Apparently, RFA’s and FA’s aren’t cutting it for us around here – I suppose there are a lot of reasons for this.
- See Table 3: Buffalo has also, as far as I can tell, made the fewest roster moves of any team in the NHL the last decade (since the off-season of 2000): 38 by myself and Sean Zandberg’s count (courtesy of his website). It should be noted that this information doesn’t appear complete, as it is only an amateur count of roster moves (no offense, Sean, the site is still a cool resource) but it still gives a good indication of the number of significant trades, signings, waiver grabs, and retirements. The closest team to that mark is Detroit with 41, and I hear they’re also not bad. Yes, the Sabres have made some bonehead trades, but their team is getting by alright without Taylor Pyatt’s 10 points right now, and the second rounder they coughed up for Mr. Moore isn’t the end of the world. Toronto has made 69 moves, which is not nearly as bad as the Coyotes at 105, but the correlation between total number of moves and overall team success is tenuous. Success is possible through a lot of trades, albeit less likely. Detroit, New Jersey, Ottawa, San Jose, and Buffalo are the teams in the top third of the league over the last decade with below-average roster-move frequency. The league average amount of roster moves since 2000, excluding losses to free agency and restricted free agents is 63.
I think a good case can be made that the Sabres owe much of their success to patience, as do many of the other top performing teams in the league. Now, there is an obvious chicken-before-the-egg argument in all this, that is, "a team that is already good doesn’t need to make as many roster moves as a mediocre one". Yes, this is true, and this is why I wouldn’t hold up New Jersey, Detroit, Ottawa (yes, Ottawa – they have averaged the 3rd most points in the NHL since 2000 – 101.6 on average, behind only NJD and Detroit – just look at Table 1), or even San Jose as examples of how to rebuild our team. These teams have not rebuilt so violently since the lockout.
The Sabres, on the other hand, have had to rebound since being metaphorically kicked in the nuts multiple times by the fact that they couldn’t afford to re-sign the big names that were coming into free agency. (Oh, and their city is a dunghole, but I don’t know how much of a factor that really is.) First, there was Hasek, but then there was Dumont, Spacek, Brière, Drury, and Campbell. The Sabres suffered for three seasons after losing Hasek, accumulating 82, 72, and 85 points in ’02, ’03, and ’04 respectively, before bouncing back with a 110 P season.
Frankly, the fact that the Sabres haven’t signed any of those players may very well have worked in their favor in the longer term. Look at how Drury, Brière, and Campbell are doing now! Still though, the idea of hemorrhaging talented FA’s doesn’t sit well with me.
Here is the important distinction between the Buffalo strategy and the one I have for the Leafs: we have the money to actually keep some of these high-talent players! The key, obviously, is to know when to flex the financial muscle. We need to be judicious in every decision to re-sign a potential UFA to a contract in excess of $4M unless you we are certain that this is a player that has had more than a season or two of consistent production/performance. If Matty S. wants a couple mil to hang around, fine. Same with Poni. "Career years" in a contract year is a recipe for disaster (see: Vanek, Thomas). With a bit more money, hopefully we can keep a good group together longer.
Talent will accrue naturally with a decent draft strategy, and we’ve already established multiple times on this website that drafting isn’t the Leafs biggest problem. Furthermore, with a team that is stable and secure from the GM-down, you are sure to attract the eye of more than a few veterans, looking for cheaper, longer-term deals. First though, we may have to keep our current team together. Eek.
Now, here are the stats, if you don't believe me:
Table 1: This is simply the total points accumulated by each team from the 2000-01 season, through the 2008-09 season. I chose these years because they give an even representation of pre and post-lockout numbers, as well as a sense of a team's success beyond the length of most player contracts. I have tabulated their total points for these eight seasons on the right, as well as averaged their point totals on a per-season basis. Note how at the bottom, I have calculated the average points-per-season in each year. All information from Hockey DB.
|
|
09 |
08 |
07 |
06 |
04 |
03 |
02 |
01 |
Tot. |
Avg. |
|
Anaheim |
91 |
102 |
110 |
98 |
76 |
95 |
69 |
66 |
707 |
88.4 |
|
Atlanta |
76 |
76 |
97 |
90 |
78 |
74 |
54 |
60 |
605 |
75.6 |
|
Boston |
116 |
94 |
76 |
74 |
104 |
87 |
101 |
88 |
740 |
92.5 |
|
Buffalo |
91 |
90 |
113 |
110 |
85 |
72 |
82 |
98 |
741 |
92.6 |
|
Calgary |
98 |
94 |
96 |
103 |
94 |
75 |
79 |
73 |
712 |
89 |
|
Carolina |
97 |
92 |
88 |
112 |
76 |
61 |
91 |
88 |
705 |
88.1 |
|
Chicago |
104 |
88 |
71 |
65 |
59 |
79 |
96 |
71 |
633 |
79.1 |
|
Colorado |
69 |
95 |
95 |
95 |
100 |
105 |
99 |
118 |
776 |
97 |
|
Columbus |
92 |
80 |
73 |
74 |
62 |
69 |
57 |
71 |
578 |
72.3 |
|
Dallas |
83 |
97 |
107 |
112 |
97 |
111 |
90 |
106 |
803 |
100.4 |
|
Detroit |
112 |
115 |
113 |
124 |
109 |
110 |
116 |
111 |
910 |
113.8 |
|
Ed-town |
85 |
88 |
71 |
95 |
89 |
92 |
92 |
93 |
705 |
88.1 |
|
Florida |
93 |
85 |
86 |
85 |
75 |
70 |
60 |
66 |
620 |
77.5 |
|
L.A. |
79 |
71 |
68 |
89 |
81 |
78 |
95 |
92 |
653 |
81.6 |
|
Minn. |
89 |
98 |
104 |
84 |
83 |
95 |
73 |
68 |
694 |
86.8 |
|
Montréal |
93 |
104 |
90 |
93 |
93 |
77 |
87 |
70 |
707 |
88.4 |
|
Nashville |
88 |
91 |
110 |
106 |
91 |
74 |
69 |
80 |
709 |
88.6 |
|
N.J.D. |
106 |
99 |
107 |
101 |
100 |
108 |
95 |
111 |
827 |
103.4 |
|
N.Y.I. |
61 |
79 |
92 |
78 |
91 |
83 |
96 |
52 |
632 |
79 |
|
N.Y.R. |
95 |
97 |
94 |
100 |
69 |
78 |
80 |
72 |
685 |
85.6 |
|
Ottawa |
83 |
94 |
105 |
113 |
102 |
113 |
94 |
109 |
813 |
101.6 |
|
Philly |
99 |
95 |
56 |
101 |
101 |
107 |
97 |
100 |
756 |
94.5 |
|
Phoenix |
79 |
83 |
67 |
81 |
68 |
78 |
95 |
90 |
641 |
80.1 |
|
Pittsburgh |
99 |
102 |
105 |
58 |
58 |
65 |
69 |
96 |
652 |
81.5 |
|
S.J.S. |
117 |
108 |
107 |
99 |
104 |
73 |
99 |
95 |
802 |
100.3 |
|
St. Louis |
92 |
79 |
81 |
57 |
91 |
99 |
98 |
103 |
700 |
87.5 |
|
Tampa |
66 |
71 |
93 |
92 |
106 |
93 |
69 |
59 |
649 |
81.1 |
|
Toronto |
81 |
83 |
91 |
90 |
103 |
98 |
100 |
90 |
736 |
92 |
|
Van-city |
100 |
88 |
105 |
92 |
101 |
104 |
94 |
90 |
774 |
96.8 |
|
Wash |
108 |
94 |
70 |
70 |
59 |
92 |
85 |
96 |
674 |
84.3 |
|
Average: |
91.4 |
91.1 |
91.4 |
91.4 |
89.1 |
87.2 |
86 |
86.1 |
711.3 |
88.9 |
Table 2: Here, I have tabulated the total number of signings of RFA's and UFA's by each team, as well as the players that they have lost to free agency. I have chosen only to use post-lockout information for this, since contracts signed pre-lockout were different things altogether. Also, my eyes began to hurt from all the counting. For each season, there are three columns: S: When a player from another team is signed as an RFA or as a UFA (this does not include trades for unsigned players), RS: This is the number of players in each season that have been re-signed to their old team after they have hit either restricted or unrestricted free agency, and L: these columns represent the number of players lost each year to free agency. I have tallied these four-year totals for you on the right, and added the averages on the bottom. All figures from the NHL website.
|
|
2009 |
2008 |
2007 |
2006 |
Total |
||||||||||
|
|
S |
RS |
L |
S |
RS |
L |
S |
RS |
L |
S |
RS |
L |
S |
RS |
L |
|
Anaheim |
3 |
5 |
2 |
6 |
4 |
6 |
5 |
5 |
4 |
4 |
8 |
2 |
18 |
22 |
14 |
|
Atlanta |
8 |
6 |
3 |
6 |
5 |
5 |
5 |
6 |
6 |
5 |
4 |
4 |
24 |
21 |
18 |
|
Boston |
7 |
4 |
4 |
3 |
2 |
4 |
1 |
3 |
1 |
7 |
3 |
8 |
18 |
12 |
17 |
|
Buffalo |
4 |
4 |
3 |
3 |
4 |
1 |
1 |
4 |
4 |
1 |
18 |
6 |
9 |
30 |
14 |
|
Calgary |
8 |
6 |
6 |
4 |
6 |
8 |
3 |
0 |
3 |
5 |
2 |
3 |
20 |
16 |
20 |
|
Carolina |
6 |
8 |
4 |
1 |
9 |
3 |
1 |
1 |
2 |
6 |
7 |
5 |
14 |
25 |
14 |
|
Chicago |
5 |
8 |
4 |
5 |
4 |
2 |
4 |
2 |
2 |
5 |
6 |
3 |
19 |
20 |
11 |
|
Colorado |
4 |
4 |
8 |
4 |
7 |
4 |
6 |
3 |
3 |
5 |
5 |
2 |
19 |
19 |
17 |
|
Columbus |
3 |
5 |
4 |
6 |
8 |
1 |
5 |
3 |
2 |
5 |
6 |
4 |
19 |
22 |
11 |
|
Dallas |
3 |
2 |
4 |
2 |
2 |
4 |
3 |
3 |
4 |
3 |
4 |
5 |
11 |
11 |
17 |
|
Detroit |
6 |
2 |
5 |
3 |
10 |
3 |
2 |
2 |
8 |
5 |
7 |
5 |
16 |
21 |
21 |
|
Edmonton |
2 |
9 |
5 |
2 |
4 |
4 |
2 |
4 |
2 |
3 |
6 |
7 |
9 |
23 |
18 |
|
Florida |
5 |
2 |
8 |
3 |
3 |
2 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
2 |
7 |
4 |
13 |
15 |
17 |
|
L.A. |
2 |
4 |
3 |
0 |
7 |
4 |
6 |
2 |
4 |
6 |
4 |
4 |
14 |
17 |
15 |
|
Minnesota |
8 |
2 |
6 |
5 |
8 |
5 |
3 |
7 |
2 |
5 |
6 |
8 |
21 |
23 |
21 |
|
Montréal |
8 |
7 |
7 |
4 |
4 |
3 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
2 |
8 |
2 |
18 |
23 |
16 |
|
Nashville |
3 |
6 |
4 |
3 |
4 |
2 |
7 |
3 |
4 |
4 |
8 |
9 |
17 |
21 |
19 |
|
N.J.D. |
3 |
4 |
6 |
3 |
4 |
2 |
7 |
3 |
4 |
4 |
8 |
9 |
15 |
15 |
17 |
|
N.Y.I. |
8 |
3 |
5 |
7 |
6 |
6 |
9 |
3 |
8 |
8 |
5 |
2 |
32 |
17 |
21 |
|
N.Y.R. |
9 |
3 |
8 |
5 |
7 |
6 |
2 |
5 |
5 |
3 |
7 |
5 |
19 |
22 |
24 |
|
Ottawa |
1 |
3 |
4 |
5 |
5 |
3 |
1 |
2 |
3 |
4 |
8 |
7 |
11 |
18 |
17 |
|
Philly |
4 |
0 |
7 |
4 |
2 |
1 |
1 |
2 |
2 |
6 |
5 |
3 |
15 |
9 |
13 |
|
Phoenix |
5 |
6 |
6 |
7 |
5 |
8 |
3 |
5 |
4 |
8 |
5 |
2 |
23 |
21 |
22 |
|
Pittsburgh |
6 |
5 |
6 |
7 |
11 |
6 |
6 |
5 |
2 |
6 |
4 |
6 |
25 |
25 |
20 |
|
San Jose |
1 |
5 |
7 |
3 |
9 |
5 |
3 |
3 |
2 |
6 |
12 |
4 |
13 |
29 |
18 |
|
St. Louis |
5 |
5 |
3 |
5 |
3 |
4 |
2 |
3 |
3 |
7 |
3 |
7 |
19 |
14 |
17 |
|
Tampa |
6 |
6 |
7 |
8 |
4 |
8 |
3 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
6 |
2 |
21 |
20 |
21 |
|
Toronto |
4 |
3 |
4 |
4 |
6 |
3 |
2 |
0 |
3 |
4 |
7 |
3 |
14 |
16 |
13 |
|
Van-city |
6 |
6 |
9 |
7 |
8 |
5 |
4 |
3 |
3 |
4 |
6 |
6 |
21 |
21 |
23 |
|
Wash. |
2 |
5 |
3 |
3 |
6 |
3 |
4 |
5 |
3 |
2 |
9 |
5 |
11 |
25 |
14 |
|
Average |
17.3 |
19.8 |
17.7 |
||||||||||||
Table 3: This information is pulled from Sean Zandberg's (of Nucks' Misconduct) site http://nhltradeshistory.blogspot.com/. While this seems to be a compilation of the more significant deals, rather than an all-encompassing set of figures, I feel that these numbers give a good indication of the number of trades, FA pickups, waiver pickups and losses, and retirements each team as undergone since the off-season of 2000, until January of 2009. Again, this encompasses an equal amount of pre and post-lockout information, and is a good indication of the overall inclination of an organization to move players around.
|
|
Total |
Trades |
FA Pickup |
Waiver Pickup |
Waiver Loss |
Retire |
|
Anaheim |
73 |
56 |
14 |
0 |
1 |
0 |
|
Atlanta |
76 |
50 |
19 |
1 |
1 |
3 |
|
Boston |
80 |
50 |
19 |
1 |
2 |
8 |
|
Buffalo |
38 |
32 |
2 |
0 |
0 |
2 |
|
Calgary |
73 |
43 |
18 |
0 |
1 |
2 |
|
Carolina |
61 |
43 |
12 |
0 |
1 |
2 |
|
Chicago |
98 |
67 |
23 |
0 |
0 |
5 |
|
Colorado |
63 |
39 |
16 |
0 |
0 |
5 |
|
Columbus |
65 |
41 |
18 |
3 |
0 |
1 |
|
Dallas |
73 |
40 |
20 |
1 |
0 |
9 |
|
Detroit |
41 |
13 |
15 |
0 |
0 |
8 |
|
Edmonton |
57 |
36 |
13 |
0 |
1 |
2 |
|
Florida |
81 |
56 |
16 |
1 |
0 |
4 |
|
L. A. |
87 |
55 |
27 |
1 |
1 |
2 |
|
Minnesota |
45 |
32 |
13 |
0 |
1 |
0 |
|
Montréal |
51 |
27 |
16 |
3 |
0 |
3 |
|
Nashville |
78 |
53 |
20 |
0 |
0 |
2 |
|
N. J. D. |
54 |
27 |
20 |
0 |
0 |
7 |
|
N. Y. I. |
74 |
44 |
25 |
1 |
0 |
4 |
|
N. Y. R. |
81 |
56 |
18 |
1 |
0 |
4 |
|
Ottawa |
54 |
38 |
12 |
1 |
0 |
0 |
|
Philly |
92 |
72 |
13 |
2 |
0 |
5 |
|
Phoenix |
105 |
73 |
24 |
3 |
0 |
3 |
|
Pittsburgh |
92 |
65 |
21 |
1 |
0 |
4 |
|
San Jose |
56 |
37 |
11 |
0 |
0 |
6 |
|
St. Louis |
75 |
50 |
16 |
0 |
1 |
8 |
|
Tampa |
71 |
54 |
10 |
0 |
1 |
6 |
|
Toronto |
69 |
36 |
18 |
1 |
0 |
12 |
|
Van City |
76 |
53 |
18 |
0 |
1 |
2 |
|
Wash |
61 |
46 |
8 |
2 |
0 |
6 |
|
Average |
63.0 |
43.5 |
17.7 |
0.8 |
0.4 |
4.2 |
PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.
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Well said. I’d like to start discussion, but no one’s around to discuss. I’ll give it a crack anyways.
So should we just low ball all of our RFA’s not named Ian White?
Stajan to centre the 4th line at 2 mill?
Poni deserves how much?
Also – this thinking applies to homegrown talent only right? Not the FA’s we acquired, a la Mayers, Primeau, Wallin (Minus Gustavsson)?
Wendel Killer Joseph
Not necessarily low-ball them, but pay what around what we would to bring in a comparable player. I guess the question is, is it better to keep a tight knit group of guys together, while sacrificing the draft picks they could bring, than to let them go for draft extra picks and sign guys to fill their roles.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Dec 31, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Stajan and Poni
are not RFA’s. They’re both UFA.
That means we can’t low ball them at all without them walking.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 31, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
It has also been discussed
that there really are very few comparables that could fill the roles of Stajan and Poni.
The only centres with comparable numbers to Stajan are Marleau (much better) and Plekanec… no one else is available as a UFA that approximates his production.
On the wings there’s some other options beyond Poni, but not many.
That’s exactly why their value is likely to be inflated. Rarity will drive up the final price. Unless we can replace from within (which is possible if things go well) we likely won’t want to pay what they expect.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 31, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
I Know – it was a seperate thought. That’s why there are seperate paragraphs.
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 31, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t we have players already in the system that can replace either or both players? Like for example, isn’t Kulimen a younger faster potentially better player than poni?
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
one other item of note for Buffalo's success
having the good fortune of trading for a hall of famer in Hasek, and then drafting a potential hall of famer in Miller helps…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Dec 31, 2009 12:30 PM EST reply actions
You’re right. Lucky for them they didn’t trade Miller for Andrew Raycroft back when they had to platoon him with Martin Biron.
true that!
I agree with your statement though. I do like how Buffalo builds their teams, and given the success they’ve had, it’s hard to argue against.
All I meant was, two world class goalies in the past 15 years really does help a team. The Leafs had Belfour and Cujo before that, but, no offense to them, Hasek and Miller are in a different stratosphere. Belfour, it could be argued, was world class at one time, but he was on a downward slope by the time he signed on in Toronto.
great stuff! sorry my comment came off as negative, wasn’t meant to… :(
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Dec 31, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
All good, my friend. Either way, you’re probably talking about four HOF tenders there, and those can be helpful.
well
2 first ballot guys for sure. Miller is too soon to tell, and Cujo will probably get in eventually, just don’t see it on his first try. Of course, that depends on who else is eligible at the time.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Dec 31, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Of Course
The Leafs could’ve hung onto both Poggee and Tukko Flask
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 31, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I've gotta agree
the goal tending made Buffalo what it was for years… still is in fact.
But it is fairly obvious the team plays a system. Buffalo’s best year in the past decade came when their offense was flying sky high.
I also am not sure Vanek isn’t good value. He’s a consistent 40 goal scorer. Those are rare, and on a team like Buffalo they’re even more rare.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 31, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
He’s not even on pace to get 25 goals this year, and his cap hit is $7.14M a season. That’s one season of inconsistency too many for someone earning that much money.
He's also been playing with a handful of upper and lower body injuries that
haven’t been major enough to make him miss significant time (though he has missed 5 games) or be talking points for the media (considering the team’s record.) If you watch him day in and day out he’s not himself, he’s not moving like he can. I believe that’s especially important for someone who spends his time and gets most of his scoring opportunities banging around in front of the net. The Olympic break is going to do wonders for him.
That makes sense
He looked TERRIBLE when I was there a couple of weeks ago. Slow and disinterested.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Jan 4, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Couple of points
Interesting analysis. Not entirely sure I agree with it on the whole.
Teams like Buffalo and Nashville have to develop their own talent due to cost issues. They have also had huge continuity in coaching and management. Darcy Regier and Lindy Ruff are the longest tenured GM and Coach in the NHL. Barry Trotz is 2nd in the NHL for coaches… despite the fact that ownership has changed in Nashville more than once.
Buffalo is also consistently one of the best scouting teams in the NHL, although their recent shift to pure video scouting may screw that up for them a tad. The Leafs are moving more in that direction, but because of the financial assets the Leafs possess there will always be an urge to spend to patch obvious holes rather than developing from within.
I would also dispute some of your arguments regarding Buffalo retaining assets like Drury, Briere, Dumont, Spacek, and Campbell. Of those 5 players, Drury and Briere were brought in as cost effective players who blossomed in Buffalo’s system. Dumont has basically gone on to play an identical role for another small market team in Nashville. Spacek was a case of aging – they felt it was time to bring in younger blue liners. Campbell was traded away rather than lost to free agency. He was moved for other assets, so his loss is slightly different from the first three.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
You’re telling me that Drury, Brière, and Dumont wouldn’t have been retained if they didn’t want a big payday?? That Buffalo didn’t bother resigning them because they didn’t fit the mold anymore?
Buffalo seemed to read the tea leaves pretty good on Briere and Drury. Both were looking for upwards of $7M, both clearly weren’t worth that, and Buffalo had guys like Derek Roy, Jason Pominville, Tomas Vanek and Drew Stafford ready to take over some of the heavy lifting.
Resident Capologist
I don’t disagree with you, but my point was that these players would have been retained if money weren’t such an issue. Had they asked for $4M apiece, they’d still be Sabres, and probably still be working well together under the same system. The Leafs don’t have the financial constraints that the Sabres do, and thus may be able to afford slightly higher prices to keep a team together.
But they didn’t ask for $4M a piece, they asked for – and more importantly got – the going rate on the open market.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Great article but I think one thing to remember (and I think you mentioned the main point too) is stability from management down. Not in as much as who is your coach or GM but rather people sharing the same concept or idea of what the team is.
If you look at the previous GMs (including Quinn’s time at GM) they all had very different and quite opposing ideals of what is the make up of the team. We went from a proven talent veteran players to JFJ that ran the gambit of euro players and trying to build a fast talent team to what we have now in Burke.
So building a cohesive team with a specific mold in mind is something this team hasn’t had and the team’s success or lack thereof is the result. As Steve has indicated Buffalo had no other choice due to lack of funds and it worked but that’s not to say that they too had some rather crappy years too. Here in Toronto, the need to fix holes is always and in my opinion will always be needed and an (evil) necessity. The thing we lack is a cohesive model of what the team ought to be from management down. I think (hope) Burke understands this and has effectively put in motion and sold his vision to the organization, owners, management, scouts, and players.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Buffalo is indeed one of the best in the league at drafting and developing talent, and I’d love the Leafs to hold on to and develop their assets like the Sabres do. That said, over the last 10 years the Sabres aren’t exactly the franchise to beat.
Yes, they are 10th overall in points, but they are tied with 22 other clubs at zero Stanley Cups and with 19 other teams that have zero Stanley Cup appearances.
Of the 9 teams with more points than the Sabres, seven made 1.4 times as many roster moves.
The six teams that won the cup made an average of 65 roster moves, or 1.7x the number made by Buffalo.
The ten teams that have made cup appearances made an average of 64 roster moves, or 1.69x the number made by Buffalo.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I suppose you’re counting the lockout as a year of hockey. Otherwise Buffalo is tied with 7 other teams that have one Stanley Cup appearance.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
Toronto hasn’t had a Stanley Cup appearance since the Sabres joined the league.
"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy
What a revelation!
I will now go buy a Tyler Meyers Jersey!!!
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 4, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Maple Leafs is a proper noun hence the spelling is correct.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Jan 4, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Also
I just didn’t care enough about him to check the spelling.
Still don’t
Might be a great defenceman one day, but don’t place so much pressure on him.
We know a thing or two about placing too much pressure on our young players and the disastrous effects it can cause.
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 4, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly
I think Leafs fans talk more about Myers than Sabres fans do. Everyone knows that he’s just still a rookie and are ecstatic about his future but his name doesn’t come up as often as one would think. At least no one is really masturbating over him. Most of the time that his name comes up it’s to point out how many minutes he played or the one good or one bad play that he made.
perhaps it was just the overhype from a set group of fans that we saw a cross section of.
small sample size and whatnot.
Leaf fans get ‘typecast’ regularly, but there is so much diversity amongst us that the stereotypes are rarely true.
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 4, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
it also just wasnt them, it is the broadcast team every time the Leafs play the Sabres.
Myers name is mentioned at least 100x a game and always with ball sucking positiveness.
You don’t get warm fuzzies about a player who is having an average or below average game (Myers hasn’t exactly been stand out in any games VS the Leafs) while jim hughson drolls on about his amazing reach and how amazing the play where he had a turn over was
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 4, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
this doesn’t help, although it is not the fan’s fault.
if we were to blame for everything the media spewed out about the Leafs then ridiculous suggestions like “if the fans didn’t support the team, the team would be better” might start appearing…
Wait, what??
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 4, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose you’re counting the lockout as a year of hockey. Otherwise Buffalo is tied with 7 other teams that have one Stanley Cup appearance.
TEMSON – I was commenting on results since 2000, since that’swhat the data examined. No point in commenting outside of the data set.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
They also spent part of that time bankrupt and under the control of the NHL.
And since the end of the lockout (and that time essentially) have been to the ECF 50% of the time. Sure it’s not a Stanley Cup appearance but it’s not hoping for John Tavares territory either.
great stuff, but
can I add a Table 4: JFJ’s draft picks and trades of draft picks during his tenure.
Also, to be a Devil’s Advocate, sometimes a tight-knit group is exactly what you need to get rid of. Witness the Corson, Tucker, Domi and (I can’t remember the 4th plague-rat) in the Lake Rousseau rodents’ nest? This group was not only mainly useless but also reported as being one of the most disruptive groups in a very bad dressing room. Sometimes you need to clean out a gang.
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Dec 31, 2009 11:58 PM EST reply actions
As your resident blinker,
Great song bro.
Pumps out more male with one thrust of the pelvis than the United States postal service over the last 146 years.
As Steve said, it's more about the system and the vision than the individual players.
It’s easy and fun to sit around compaing the attributes of this and that player, but the truth is more that a coherent "system"is what will bring wins. Look at any sport (other than MLB) and that’s true. The reason that the Devils and the Saber’s are good year in and year out (mostly) is that they develop and trade-for players that fit their systems. Obviously if you have a HOFer in goal it helps.
So, as much fun as it is to discuss who to keep and who to get, I’d limit it only to the players that fit the system.
Which is why Kess isn’t a Bruin any more.
bt
Very nice (and flattering to us Buffalo Fans) article
One thing I found particularly interesting is that Buffalo fans have constantly voiced their disappointment with management’s inability to sign their big free agents, and now over the last four years we’ve re-signed more players than anyone in the league!
GM Darcy Regier has always believed in the “core” of guys who came up through the AHL together like Miller, Roy, Pominville, Connolly, and Gaustad among others, so even though everyone cried bloody murder when we lost Drury and Briere, you gotta give the GM credit for sticking to his plan which is now paying big dividends. Really enjoyed reading this, and looking forward to our game on Friday.

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