So, would you?
by Leaf in Habland on Dec 4, 2009 6:38 PM EST
63 comments
Just curious to see what you all would say. Feel free to comment and defend your answers.
For the record I'm going to go with no. I am a coach and an athlete. I've represented Canada twice. When I did, I said to one of my teammates, just before the event: "You know that moment you wait your entire life for? This is it!" It was pretty cool. I did not have much international success though. I like my nice balanced life, and I feel like I've contributed to my sport, and can continue to do so without needing to be the best. To be the best you need a combination of talent, durability, consistency, and timing. As and athlete I had two of four. As a coach, I like to think I have all four. Time will tell. I hope this doesn't influence your answers. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. The real meaning comes in the justification, I think.
PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.
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thing is, in my chosen field, if i am being the best i can be, then there is a higher than average chance I will die young anyways, and if I am just so-so at it, a lot of bad will slip through and negatively impact and hurt the lives of possibly hundreds of other people
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
Are you a police officer? Or just a superhero? Caped-crusader of some kind?
by Leaf in Habland on Dec 4, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
cop…working on it anyway
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 4, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Death rate for cops isn't THAT high
Tho undercover ones have spectacular divorce rates. Not sure I’d want to do that.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
no, not at all, especially in canada
and its the homicide guys that have the worst divorce rate
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 6, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
really?
I forget where I heard it, but undercover also made sense intuitively… Away from home a lot of time, can’t talk about anything you’re doing blah blah… I guess homicide might be more stressful straight-up if you’re looking at a lot of dead bodies, etc.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
with undercover there is always a warning “ill be going away for a while” yadda yadda yadda, but there is a sense of order to it
with homicide you can get a call any time any place anywhere, even on vacation if you are good enough. and it is the constant tearing away from the family, at crucial times that wear on a relationship. it also doesnt help that it is very easy to become a work a holic as a homicide investigator as you are very involved in the lives of these dead people, and it becomes personal very fast
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 6, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
You should really read everything Michael Connelly’s ever written, Jared.
http://www.michaelconnelly.com/Book_Collection/book_collection.html
If you don’t love them, I’ll eat my Leafs hat.
I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.
ive read a couple of em a few years back, an ex of mine was a huge fan, good reads
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 6, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Just watch this and you’ll figure Jared out.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433387/
I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.
love that movie
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 4, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
first – is this the same pill barry bonds took? cause i don’t want a giant head. second – the answer i’d look for with this question if i were interviewing kids for my team would be “no, i can do those things with hard work” or something to that effect, that’s my take on this as a draft screening question…although if i were asked and if i were honest i would say yes, because i’m lazy and would love nothing more than a calder trophy and stanley cup ring with no effort
The choo-choo train left right on time. A ticket costs only your mind.
The driver said, "Hey, man, we go all the way. Of course we were willing to pay.
- My name is Jonas (Gustavsson)- - - Weezer are clearly leafs fans.
and miss seeing my daughter grow up?
And miss getting to live out a John Lennon song with my wife?
Categorically, undeniably no.
I have nothing interesting to say.
priorities, you has them
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 4, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
Well duh but imagine you were 18 and sngle
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Dec 5, 2009 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
if you didn't
you would spend your whole life going what if? Besides a long life doesn’t mean you live fully
40 years we've stayed loyal, waited, and pained. That is the honor of being a Leafs' fan.
I wouldn’t question it for a second. Nobody with a child would ever make that pick.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
that’s not necessarily true.. some people resent their children. I think his point was would you rather have 5 minutes of glory or an hour of regret
The choo-choo train left right on time. A ticket costs only your mind.
The driver said, "Hey, man, we go all the way. Of course we were willing to pay.
- My name is Jonas (Gustavsson)- - - Weezer are clearly leafs fans.
by AkiSchennberg on Dec 5, 2009 2:18 AM EST up reply actions
exactly… and I’m only 23, I have no children, well, that I know of that is
40 years we've stayed loyal, waited, and pained. That is the honor of being a Leafs' fan.
but, y'know
a moment of glory is a moment. It ends. Think of all the washed up high school athletes who were gods in their day (more an American phenom) and now are Al Bundy… A long and BAD life is a sad thing, but spectacular achievement isn’t necessarily what makes a life good. See all the clinically depressed best-selling novelists, movie actors, rock stars, etc. They all flamed bright, and some of them couldn’t cope with the inevitable fizzle after, when the wonderful stopped carrying them sooner than they thought.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
IN A HEARTBEAT
Live to 100 and your life last 100 years.
Take the pill and your name lives forever
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
name the best general, the best president, the best leader
and for some, it’s not about your name up in lights, it is about your deeds, the lives it effects and changes, the deeds it sets in motion.
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 4, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t. Can you?
You make those effects every day of your life. It doesn’t take a Faustian bargain. That’s just ego.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
i can name some of the best, but the “best” is always debatable
(Alexander the great, Lincoln, Caeser IMO by the way)
and thats the deal though if you KNEW you would inspire such greatness, and it guaranteed that you would be the father of it. or if you just knew youd have an ok life and do nothing of significance, but nothing horrible.
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Was Caesar great? Was Alexander? They were famous as conquerors, but did they do anything that was actually good? How many people are dead at their hands?
We have this notion that we aspire to “greatness” with no real sense of what greatness means. Great for who? Who are you bringing benefit to and at what cost to others?
No matter what you do, just by virtue of living you get the chance to make a positive change in someone’s life. What do you need the notoriety for?
For the people who answer yes, if you could be the greatest at something, but have to be completely and utterly anonymous in doing so, would you still shorten your life for the privilege?
Leaf, the universe and everything.
its hard to be the greatest general without war and destruction, but i see your point
and since i answered yes, ill tell you the reason why, the thing is I want to be a police officer. If i was the greatest police officer ever and was forgotten after the day I died early, I must have done some good to gain stature as greatest ever, be that saving lives, ending or reducing harmful crime or what ever in a way that is so significant as to warrant greatest ever status, I would do that in a second.
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
well its not about being second greatest, its about being just another decent cop
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
depends how big the difference is. If all cops are equal within 10%, the guy who is 11% better is the greatest ever. How valuable is that 11%?
Leaf, the universe and everything.
i think 11% is a pretty low number from satisfactory and great, is Gretzky only 11% better than Stajan?
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2009 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
But do we know it’s any more? He might only be 11% greater, but that’s enough given the correct set of circumstances.
Also – we’ve been working on the premise that by virtue of being the greatest, that one gets the opportunity to take full advantage of it. That isn’t necessarily true. Greatness is innate. It’s not about the deeds.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Also – we’ve been working on the premise that by virtue of being the greatest, that one gets the opportunity to take full advantage of it. That isn’t necessarily true. Greatness is innate. It’s not about the deeds.
Are you arguing here that results don’t matter?
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 6, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Also – just by being a damned good cop who hits mandatory retirement, you may end up accomplishing just as much as the guy who flames out at 30.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
yah, but now we are hitting grey area, the question is, you are super guy who burns out early, or you are regular average nothing special dude who lives a long and mediocre life.
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
5 years of the greatest ever versus 35 years of good. Who does more?
Leaf, the universe and everything.
to again bring this back to hockey, Bobby Orr or Dave Ellet, who did more good?
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2009 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
Did either of them actually do anything good?
Orr spent the next 30 years of his life in pain and his kids refused to take up the game because of what it did to him. Ellett made a ton more money and he has his health.
Define good.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
good, middle of the road, dime a dozen serviceable NHLer. plays on the third line, maybe the second on a poorer team.
Orr changed the way hockey was played, made it more entertaining and exciting.
I’d definitely be Bobby Orr great for 5 years than Dave Ellet serviceable for 20
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
If I were a hockey player I’d rather be Bobby Orr, hands down. But I’m not a hockey player. Oh, and Bobby Orr is not dead, just retired.
by Leaf in Habland on Dec 5, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
better hockey analogy
Pelle Lindbergh or Ken Wregget (notwithstanding Wregget played for the Leafs)
by Leaf in Habland on Dec 5, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
nope, but the question says “you’d have an accident” that can be interpreted many ways. Orr had a few accidents and his knees got destroyed and his career cut short. i think that qualifies
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Age of when asked is the key
At 18, I’d probably say yes. Now at 28, engaged, with other people to think of, it’s a definite no.
I’m 27, and I basically said the same thing up top.
At 18 everyone has dreams and aspirations to be the best, and while these may continue for some years to come the rabid determination kind of turns into cautious progression.
And my fiance would break it off in two seconds if she found out I did that.
Boo hoo!
Exactly
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Dec 5, 2009 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
Living long isn’t the same as living for a short period of time and being a legend
If your name lives forever, you live forever
Space Weed Says Telling it like it is without a care about the mainstream's feelings
"DO NOT get stuck behind Kyle Wellwood in the buffet line. This isn't really etiquette, but it will prevent you from starving to death"- Down Goes Brown on Etiquette for Jason Spezza's wedding
by Kevin Sellathamby on Dec 5, 2009 10:25 AM EST reply actions
until they forget
Can you name any sports stars who died more than a generation ago? More than two?
Now consider that sports have been going on for hundreds of years (though the profesional aspects have exploded)… how many GREAT tennis players were there in the 1800’s? Probably a couple. Name ONE.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
Take the pill, die young
To quote Mel Gibson paraphrasing William Wallace:
Every man dies. Not every man truly lives.
Sure I could live to 100, but 100 years of doing nothing spectacular would be a bore. Take the pill; have a blast; and go down in a blaze of glory with your name in the books. Look at the list of people whose names were immortalized by an early death: Cobain, Hendricks, R. Phoenix, James Dean, anyone born before 1935, etc….
The brightest stars are the first to burn out, but at least they burn brightly.
Also given my choice of profession, I’d either go professional athlete or Army general.
They call me Splodeybones.
Imagine being the greatest ever army general... In Canada... when there's no war on.
You make it sound like spectacular achievements are the only things that make life worthwhile. How depressing would that be for 99% of humanity? But most people report being generally happy most of the time… Having good friends, going out to good entertainment, doing some good deeds, becoming good at something, producing useful things… these all produce great ongoing happiness. Putting your name in a book that collects dust until someone else tops you… That’s nice, but it ends.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
"To an Athlete dying young"
describes my reaction very well, even though I’m not much of a poetry person
THIS IS A JOKE
A different angle
would be the story of Scotty Davidson (a former LOTD)
The Legends of Hockey’s take:
In 1912-13, Davidson was signed by the Toronto Blueshirts of the NHA. He lined up at right wing and quickly made himself indispensable with 19 goals in 20 games. The next year he scored 23 times and was a leader on the squad that won the Stanley Cup in 1914. Davidson enlisted for military service after World War I broke out in 1914 and was killed in Belgium on June 6, 1915.
Scoring at a better than goal a game pace before shipping off to serve in WW1. Burning bright and not fading away may sound romantic, but one’s death isn’t always going to be pretty. It could be a lonely, cold affair.
In my “youth” I often thought I would surely die young, and was okay with it. I don’t know if that’s the naivety of my age, or just plain selfishness. However, were I able to tell my younger self a few things, one of them most certainly would be the value of a good life, long lived.
I have nothing interesting to say.
indeed, I just think you guys are getting way into the grey and away from the original question.
its undoubted greatness for an unspecific accident shortened career (nowhere does it say death, although ill take some responsibility with the cop comparo) or a mediocre, forgettable NHL career with hitting a healthy triple numbers at the other end
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 7, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
i think
speaking for myself, I’m just trying to impart a little learned experience.
we’re definitely WAY off topic but, basically, life is grey, and no magic pill will ever change that.
I have nothing interesting to say.
haha, i agree with you 100% and if i delve into the grey i agree with your logic all the way.
but in the context of the original argument i stick to my guns
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 7, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
The question is deliberately vague. I think the take you have on it is indicative as well. Glad to see it is generating much talk. I think the key is to make you think about your life and if you can justify the way you are living it and are happy, then you’ve made the right choice. Even that is subject to debate, I suppose.
Another athlete example: Steve Prefontaine. A legend in distance running circles, several movies made about his life. A lot of “what could have been” there.
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