Pension Plan Puppets: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Along The Olentangy for Ohio State Fans!

On Judging Toronto

For anyone who is over 30 and from Toronto, I hardly need to remind you what happened March 1992 during the World Series. An American honor guard had carried the Canadian flag into the stadium upside, which is generally considered an act of disrespect.

picture

At the time there was a lot of speculation over how the people of Toronto would react when the series returned to Toronto. It was expected that there would be a mixed reaction to the American flag and anthem.

I am a native born Vancouverite. My regard for Toronto and its natives was minimal at that point. I had the misfortune of enduring years of watching Toronto play on Hockey Night in Canada when there were only two teams in Canada. Toronto being by far the lesser of the two teams, yet having the majority of the air time was a frustration I still carry with me The people were doubtlessly dim, the summers being far too humid and winters far too cold. No redeaming landscapes worth looking at. Politically, as a Westerner, I expected Central Canada to take more than they gave and be obtuse in their failure to recognize it.

So my expectation from the people of Toronto was minimal. I expected a lot of animosity over the flag incident and as a reflection of tension building that an alien city was on the threshold of winning the World Series, the pinnacle of America's pasttime.

 

When the time came, game three of the World Series and the first World Series game on foreign soil, the people of Toronto stood respectfully and cheered the American flag as it was carried onto the field by an RCMP honour guard, and then in a moment the sent chills down my spine, sang "God Bless America". And they sang it loud, and they sang it proud.

Now the return of Mats Sundin is nothing much compared to that World Series game, but for the sake of the monumental respect that the people of Toronto earned at that moment, I sure hope they show the same amount of class as that moment, when Mats takes to the ice on Saturday.

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

0 recs  |  Comment 45 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Well...

I don’t know that booing a former player that some fans feel that they have a legitimate gripe with should diminish the fact that Toronto fans universally respect the American national anthem.

Now, if he gets booed when his number is honoured then yeah, fuck them.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 9:59 AM EST reply actions  

well the shocking part of this whole saga is that Sundin has been made to look like the bad guy. The real bad guy in this case is Fletcher. When have you ever seen a GM publicly hang a player out to dry in such an obscene manner. Eddie Jovonoski’s departure from the Canucks could have brought a bag-full of prospects and players, but he had a no trade clause, and like so many other UFAs, the next year he left, a total loss for the former team. That is the nature of the business. If you don’t mean to stand by the contracts that you sign, don’t sign them!

Fletcher decided to play the only card he had available once he decided Sundin was no longer part of the plan, the public shunning of the most respected player on the team, a player who most certainly would have been happy to play out his career in Toronto. Fletcher is among the very best GMs over the course of the past 30 years. His tactics in this case, though, fall into the scum-bag class. Every year the same scenario plays out, cellar dwellars looking to get a trade deadline premium for veterans. Occasionally, the veteran has a NTC and is willing to waive it, but that whole negotiation is done in private. The issue dies if the player stands by his no-trade. Not in Fletcher’s case with the handling Sundin. In his eagerness to turn the page on a dismal situation Fletcher mounted a media campaign to discredit Sundin and force an exit from Toronto. The shame here should really be on Fletcher.

It is a backward notion similar to the thinking in certain cultures and at certain times, that if a man cheats on a wife, it is the wife’s fault. If you really think that, it shows a cowardice in failing to stand by your own actions.

by asymsynap on Feb 20, 2009 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

Please.

The whole “Fletcher hung Sundin out to dry” storyline has come up a few times in recent days, and it’s just so much revisionist history. Please point to even on quote where Fletcher does anything other than blow smoke up Sundin’s behind. Anyone remember “Mats is driving the bus”?

Was the whole thing public? Of course, because Toronto has fans and a media that have brains and a pulse. If Fletcher had tried to deny that a last place team might field a few offers on their veteran star in the final year of his deal, he’d have been laughed at.

If Sundin’s skin is really so thin that Fletcher simply acknowledging the obvious is somehow hanging him out to dry, then he’s probably in the wrong line of work.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Feb 20, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Come on, be real. Every day Fletcher was making comments on the current status of his efforts to deal away Sundin. Even if he is saying, ’It’s Sundin’s decision’, that is just a way of orchestrating the media for his purposes. Revisionist history is the suggestion that Fletcher wasn’t publicly trying to force Sundin out.

I don’t see how you can call Sundin thin-skinned. He took all the criticism without lashing out even once, even though he had every reason to.

by asymsynap on Feb 20, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

i’m a pretty big fletcher fan, but i think he could have handled it better. “Mats is driving the Bus” is not the same as saying “Mats does not want to go anywhere, so we are not going to ask him.” Even if they did ask him in private, Fletcher should have been telling the media, repeatedly, that he is not accepting offers for Mats Sundin.

and calling Sundin thin-skinned is pretty ridiculous given the abuse he’s taken over the years.

by daoust on Feb 20, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I tend to agree. I thought at the time that the way it was handled was a disgrace and would end up with Sundin leaving for nothing, if he played again.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Feb 20, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Ummmm WTF?
If you don’t mean to stand by the contracts that you sign, don’t sign them!

First off, Fletcher did not offer Mats the NTC.

As for letting hang in the wind, when did he do anything other than say that he spoke (or would speak) to Mats and that the decision was his? The media constantly pestered him but to insinuate that Fletcher was out there saying “I asked Mats and he said no so I’m going to ask him again tomorrow” is ridiculous.

The shame here should really be on Fletcher.

And it’s the people upset with Mats that get called ridiculous…

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Does this mean that Burke doesn’t have to honour any of the contracts currently on the team, since he wasn’t the one who offered them? that’d be pretty sweet.

by daoust on Feb 20, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, he has to pay them out but he doesn’t have to accept any promises that were made (ie NTCs) insofar that the players can be asked if they would accept trades. If JFJ did it it would be in bad form.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

i think you’re wrong. burke said as much when he said he wasn’t going to ask players to waive their NTC’s. he didn’t sign the contracts, but he’s going to honour them as if he did.

by daoust on Feb 20, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah but if Burke did ask them I see nothing wrong with that. If JFJ promised 10 first rounders to some team should he still have to honour that?

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 21, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

it’s not a promise. it’s a contract. signed by both parties. a legal document. the NTC is just as much a part of it as the salary is. to suggest he doesn’t have to honour it because he wasn’t the one who signed it is ridiculous.

that said, people are asked to waive their NTC’s all the time. i don’t think you should do it publicly to your captain and all-time leading scorer, but if burke wanted to ask kabby or kubina behind closed doors, that’s not the end of the world. given that burke went out of his way to say he wasn’t going to do that makes it pretty clear that that’s not his style. if it’s in the contract, he’s going to honour it. or at the very least he’s not going to publicly tell everyone he’s asked them but they’ve refused.

by daoust on Feb 21, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we have been following very different Toronto media if you think no comments were going to cut it.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 21, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

am i in bizarro PPP world here? are you and DGB both really advocating a GM tailoring what he says and does to satisfy the media?

as has been pointed out countless times, no matter what is said or done, the media around here will put a negative spin on it, so FUCK THEM.

by daoust on Feb 21, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

No

What I am advocating is that he make it as easy as possible for him to do his own job as GM just like Mats made it as easy as possible to do his own job as a player.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 22, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

From the Fletcher presser:
Another management shuffle, the fourth of his tenure, has not rattled Mats Sundin. He still wants to remain a Maple Leaf.

It appears the captain might get his way and remain in Toronto through the Feb.26 trade deadline.

While interim general manager Cliff Fletcher said he will need more time to analyze Toronto’s situation before commenting publicly on his plans for the team, when it comes to Sundin, he said “the most important thing to do is what’s right for Mats.”

And, as far as Sundin is concerned, that means staying with the Leafs. “Nothing changes in terms of my own position,” Sundin said yesterday. “I’ve told you guys all year long how I feel. It doesn’t change now.”

It was Fletcher who acquired Sundin in 1994, trading Toronto icon Wendel Clark to the Nordiques in a multi-player deal that brought in the splendid centre. Fletcher also brought in Doug Gilmour, watched his popularity skyrocket, before trading him away to New Jersey for building blocks Steve Sullivan, Jason Smith and Alyn McCauley.

Now, there is a school of thought that says the best thing Sundin could do for the Leafs is allow himself to be traded. Sundin signed a one-year, $5.5 million (U.S.) contract last summer that included a no-trade provision.

“Mats is driving the engine here,” said Fletcher. “He’s an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year and he has a no-trade clause.”

Mats’ position was known and restated the day Fletcher came to Toronto. Fletcher acknowledged it at the time.

Why was it ever discussed again? Fletcher’s answer should have been: “We’ve discussed it and I am not taking offers for Sundin at this time.”

Fletcher was making deals without the consent of the players involved, hoping to convince them once he had something in place – see Kaberle, Tomas.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Feb 20, 2009 3:13 PM EST reply actions  

Mats’ position was known and restated the day Fletcher came to Toronto. Fletcher acknowledged it at the time.

Why was it ever discussed again? Fletcher’s answer should have been: "We’ve discussed it and I am not taking offers for Sundin at this time."

Good point. I guess Fletcher should have known that Sundin never ever ever ever ever changes his mind.

by lordosis on Feb 20, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Then he can ask him. Behind closed doors, he can ask whatever he wants. That’s his job.

Instead, he always left it just a little bit open in public, so that it would be out there day after day after day.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Feb 20, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would Fletcher play it that way? An NTC gives a player the right to veto any deal, it doesn’t mean a player can’t even have his name mentioned in a negotiation.

Fletcher didn’t publicly pressure Sundin other than by answering questions. Taking offers in private was part of his job.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Feb 20, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

In private

There’s the key.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Feb 20, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Mats answered that questions every day and so did Cliff. I guess both could have said “No comment” but if repeating the same answer didn’t slow down the press then why would that have made a difference?

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Mats’ error was that he was never definitive enough for the press. He should have grabbed someone by the throat (pick your reporter of choice) and yelled, “Listen, you mindless @$$hat, I’ve said every day for the last four months that I want to stay. What do you think that means?”

Alas, not in his nature.

Fletcher, for his part, instead of repeating, “Well, we’ll just leave that up to Mats,” could have said, “Mats is off the table.” Saying that once would have made significant difference, IMO.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Feb 20, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure

And when Fletcher said to Cox “Mats is driving the bus” and then Mats said “no deal” did that slow down the mittenstringers? No, it would have just resulted in attacks on Fletcher about giving up on moving the team’s most marketable asset.

So, if Mats can nix a trade out of his comfort Fletcher can refuse to make things hard on himself by going to an even more definitive statement than he had already made.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

So

Fletcher’s refusal to defuse the media speculation made his life easier, and yet it’s Mats’ fault…. ;)

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Feb 20, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

The speculation? I’m not saying that the speculayion is Mats’ fault. My point is that it would have and did carry on regardless of what was said by Fletcher. Trying to say he was being malicious in his actions is wrong.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

No. He could have done a lot with it. Things played out just as Fletcher wanted them, save for the fact Mats didn’t buckle.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Feb 21, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

In private. There’s the key.

But assuming you agree that it was reasonable for Fletcher to discuss trades with other teams, how private could it really be?

Imagine Fletcher telling everyone Mats is not on the block, then having a report come out of Montreal or Philadelphia that a Sundin deal was being discussed. The media would have had a field day and we’d all be saying “Fletcher should have just been honest”.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Feb 21, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

A GM should only be concerned with how he’s perceived by his players and by other GMs. What the fans and the media thinks is irrelevant. Especially in this godforsaken town. Don’t we mock the Toronto media around here constantly? Isn’t there a website dedicated to that very purpose? Did I dream all of this???

If he was publicly saying he wasn’t going to ask Mats to waive, i think other GMs would understand that he was trying to protect Mats from media bombardment, and the players would respect Fletch for not putting him in that situation. It certainly wouldn’t be an impediment to a trade if Sundin ultimately had agreed to go somewhere. I think all parties involved in a trade would prefer things to be on the downlow as possible.

by daoust on Feb 21, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, why did they sing God Bless America before the game?

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Feb 20, 2009 3:15 PM EST reply actions  

I liked the T-shirts printed with the US flag upside down and “No problem, eh?”

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Feb 20, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Who cares?

Probably because your anthem is about us burning down the White House and no one wanted to give us any ideas about how to avenge our national honour.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

i don’t understand why they chose a song that has an almost 2-octave range as an anthem. 95% of the public has no chance of hitting the high notes.

by daoust on Feb 20, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Ummm

It’s America?

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Ummmm redux

I think considering this glass house we are in…

Seriously, we need a new anthem. The flag gets an A+, our freaking anthem? How did that every get the thumbs up? I think there must have been some early sponsorship scandal grease money going to the selection committee.

by asymsynap on Feb 20, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

You don’t like O Canada? I think it’s amazing.

Love it or leave it pal ;)

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m a huge fan of the anthem

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on Feb 20, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

ENORMOUS

It’s usually the best part of going to TFC games.

Hopefully that changes this year.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

no

our anthem’s solid. i’m not putting it on repeat on the ipod or anything, but anyone can sing it, it’s not about bombing people, and it doesn’t lend itself to ridiculous oversinging and holding of notes unnecessarily (as best mocked in an early simpsons episode, with bleeding gums murphy singing the anthem at a baseball game).

by daoust on Feb 20, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know about you, but I thought the Bleeding Gums Murphy rendition was the best. It was 20+ minutes of heaven. Made the baseball game go like a breeze.

Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell

by bkblades on Feb 20, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s because 20 minutes of anything seems like a breeze compared to watching a baseball game.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 21, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

worst. sport. ever.

maybe if the season had more games i could get into it.

by daoust on Feb 21, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

Why stop at 162? Why not play an even 200?

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 21, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

not enough. a 300-game season is something i think i could really get behind.

they should also encourage batters and pitchers to spend more time getting ready in between pitches. it really seems like they’re rushing all the time.

by daoust on Feb 21, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Definitely

Stop and smell the roses man!

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 22, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

About that flag...

Those Marines that screwed up should have never gotten the chance to rectify their error. They should have been caned in front of that SkyDome crowd.

For a country that treats it’s flag like a freaking Bible you’d think they’d extend the same courtesy to other countries.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 20, 2009 4:02 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Your best source for quality Toronto Maple Leafs news, rumours, analysis, stats and scores from the fan perspective.
Start posting about the Maple Leafs »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

018_small
My First Leafs Game

Recent FanPosts

Mats-sundin-in-toronto1_small
Leaf Lovin' Since '92
Pilkington_small
Pointless Offseason Argument #3. Who plays an nhl game 1st. Rynnas or Reimer?
Domi_small
Looking Into My Crystal Ball
Mcsorleyblackeye_small
Examining GVT per Million: Has Brian Burke Signed Efficient Player Contracts?
Hockey_small
A Look Inside the Bubble
Tor01_shoulder_small
Why We Keep Coming Back
Kadri_small
Nazem Kadri's Chances?
Brocksamsonks7_small
NHL Fantasy Drafting Guide: Part 1 of 2 (Forwards)
Jesushockey_small
Something To Remember

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

NEWARK NJ - JULY 20:  Ilya Kovalchuk of the New Jersey Devils poses for photographs following the media opportunity announcing his contract renewal at the Prudential Center on July 20 2010 in Newark New Jersey.  (Photo by Bruce Bennett/Getty Images) +28 updates

Deal With The Devil: Ilya Kovalchuk Saga Over As League, NHLPA Agree On New Contract Rules

PHILADELPHIA - MAY 16:  A fan of the Philadelphia Flyers holds up a sign reading "Next Goalie" behind goalie Carey Price #32 of the Montreal Canadiens in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference Finals during the 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs at Wachovia Center on May 16, 2010 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.  (Photo by Bruce Bennett/Getty Images)

Habs Finally Lock Up Carey Price, Sign Goalie To Two-Year Deal

Photo +1 updates

Report: Donald Fehr Hands NHLPA List Of Conditions On Becoming Union Leader

More from SBNation.com >

StatCounter

wordpress visitor


Chief Blogging Officers

Calvin_small PPP

59_small Chemmy

Don_t_panic_small SkinnyFish

PPP's Girlfriends

Dscn1755_small wrap around curl

Versteeg_small Karina

Waynes-world_small birky

Contributing Bloggers

Clockwork_orr_cropped_small mf37

Tester_small Greener

Jesushockey_small Steve Burtch

Hitchhiker_42_small 1967ers