Brendan Witt - How it Should Be
by jrwendelman on Feb 27, 2009 10:54 AM EST
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PrintEditor's Note: I promoted Junior's fanpost because it takes a great look at the ridiculousness of the NHL's disciplinary system.
Remember this?
For those of you behind the YouTubers filters, I'll spare you the suspense. It's video of Tie Domi's gratuitous elbow on Scott Niedermayer in the 2001 playoffs. We knew this was wrong in 2001 and we weren't surprised when Domi was suspended for the balance of the playoffs and - because the Leafs were eliminated by the Devils in that series - for the first eight games of the 2002 season. At the time, Colin Campbell had this to say about Domi's elbow:
''Mr. Domi's actions have no place in our game and are being punished accordingly,'' Colin Campbell, the N.H.L. executive vice president and director of hockey operations, said in a statement. ''He has forfeited the privilege of further participation in this year's Stanley Cup playoffs.''
...
Campbell, interviewed in Toronto, said Domi's attack on Niedermayer was ''beyond the bounds about as far as you can get,'' even by hockey's rugged standards. Campbell reviewed the incident yesterday with Domi and Pat Quinn, the Maple Leafs' coach and general manager, in a formal hearing at the league's branch office in Toronto.
Presumably, even with the passage of time, Mr. Campbell will feel the same about Brendan Witt's elbow to Niklas Hagman's head on Thursday night. Otherwise, the NHL's Wheel of Justice is a farce.
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Great Fanpost
I know that Colin Campbell is going to fall back on precedent as it relates solely to the player. That’s absolutely ridiculous. Imagine if real courts did that!
“Well, you’ve never killed anyone so we aren’t quite sure what to give you as punishment. Come here and drop your pants, you’re getting spanked.”
I’m not asking for his head on a pike at the top of the DVP but let’s at least see double digits.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I think you’re right, PPP. The problem is that the “as it relates to the player” justification is non-sensical. I do not remember Domi ever doing anything like that (cheap shot elbow to the head with intent to injure) before the Niedermayer incident. Someone correct me please, if I’m wrong, but I don’t remember it.
Yet Domi still merited double digits, including playoff games. Why? Because he had a lot of fighting majors? Makes no sense.
There may be a difference between Domi’s elbow and Witt’s in that Domi’s took place much further away from the puck. But if the NHL is truly “increasingly concerned” about head shots, the result should be a double digit suspension.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Should have finished the article
At the end of the NY Time article I quoted, it says
Although Domi has been heavily penalized throughout his 12-year career, and was involved in a similar incident that gave Ulf Samuelsson a concussion, Campbell said of Domi: ’’He’s not known as a dirty player. He’s known as a hard hitter. He did cross a line. He more than crossed it. He did some damage to the New Jersey player and perhaps the New Jersey organization.’’
There’s Campbell saying specifically that’s Domi wasn’t being punished as a problem offender/recidivist. The article also indicates that – although the Devils alleged Domi had previously threatened to injure Niedermayer, no conclusions could be drawn in that regard. Conclusion: Domi was being punished for going beyond the pale.
Witt should suffer the same fate.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
In the interests of completeness
Here’s a link to the incident referenced by the NY Times article involving Domi and Samuelsson. I had forgotten about that one.
So I was wrong two comments above, Domi had been subject to supplementary discipline for a cheap shot before. But as pointed out in the reference to Campbell’s comments, he wasn’t being punished as a “dirty player” when he got the suspension he did. I think the point still stands.
I will now stop replying to myself (I wish you could “edit” posted comments instead. Oh well.)
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
hahaha
No worries. You can edit the fanpost if you want and I can delete the comments.
I have to say, I think everyone in the world cheered that sucker punch on Ulf. Everyone in the world cried last night.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
No worries. Better to leave it the way it is, I guess.
As for the sucker punch on Ulf, I can’t say I lost a lot of sleep over that – and Harry Neale even says “if you live by the sword, you’re gonna die by the sword”.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
the best part domi’s suckerpunch on Ulf was the reaction of his teammates… they could barely put in the effort to even pretend like they were pissed. everyone in the rink wanted to see him get clocked. that was awesome, one of the few times i liked domi.
Domi said he got a ton of congratulatory calls for doing that to Ulf from other guys around the league who’d wanted to see him get thumped for years.
He more than crossed it. He did some damage to the New Jersey player and perhaps the New Jersey organization.’’
Domi did more damage to the Toronto organization. We would have won that series otherwise.
I think you’re right about that, Godd. Leafs’ play went right in the toilet after that incident.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Feb 27, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Frankly, a system of vigilante justice (where the Ulf’s of the world get their due) would be more consistent than Campbell’s current joke of a scheme.
My god, Ulf was so overdue. He played to hurt people — illegally — and didn’t give a damn about whose career he wrecked.
Lighthouse Hockey: SBN's New York Islanders blog with hip issues.
I am asking for his head on a pike at the top of the DVP. I have a bit of bloodlust.
"So hide your passions in between the daily grind and broken dreams. The city is a drag."
Yeah, deep down I want it but I am not going to get it :(
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
you do realize
that’s just going to slow traffic down even more, and they don’t already call it the Don Valley Parking-Lot for nothing
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
I know they won’t do it, but there’s nothing like vigilante justice…
"So hide your passions in between the daily grind and broken dreams. The city is a drag."
there’s nothing like vigilante justice…
This will be the big song when LD sells out, turns her fanfic commercial and goes Broadway, giving us Witt: The Musical.
/dissolve to some time in the future
(an actor wearing a Hagman jersey struts across the stage singing while clutching his head)
There’s noooooo justice like vigilante justice, like nooooooo justice I know
Every little bit of it’s sensation
Nothing like a quick decapitation…
/ahem. Or not.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Feb 27, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I would go with something like Witt’s End, but as long as there’s jazz hands, I think we have a hit.
"So hide your passions in between the daily grind and broken dreams. The city is a drag."
(takes notes)
jazz hands…decapitation…GOLD, Jerry! GOLD!
Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing
I thought the jazz hands went without saying!
LD, If you could just leave me a pair in the front row of the balcony on opening night at “will call”, I’d be most appreciative.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Feb 27, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
oh of course I’ll have ticks for all of the Barilkosphere. I’d do it more “Point Break Live” style, however
Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing
LD, you continue to amaze me. How the hell is it that I’ve never heard of this “Point Break Live”, possibly the most important innovation in theatre since the invention of the curtain?
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Great post
I totally agree but I am not that optimistic nor have that much faith in Campbell. I’m betting that Witt will get nothing more then a slap on the hand, reason being that Niedermayer is a star and franchise player… Hagman is not although Campbell will never admit that to being a factor in his decision but we all know its true.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
The fact that Hagman was making a play on the puck is still a pretty big difference. Domi/Niedermayer wasn’t anywhere near the play.
And this is coming from the guy who thinks that entire incident was overblown because some doctor decided to take Niedermayer’s pulse on the ice, tricking everyone watching into thinking he was dying even though we later found out he hopped off the stretcher as soon as he was out of camera view.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Feb 27, 2009 11:07 AM EST reply actions
I agree
DGB, I think you’re right about that, and I mentioned it in the comments above. Still, the Domi incident was eight years ago now, and the calls for the NHL to take head shots seriously have been only getting louder.
Dominik at Lighthouse Hockey has written a good piece on Witt’s hit; he sees it as a regrettable but inadvertent reflex borne of poor coaching. I’m not so sure that reflex completely explains it. Whatever your feelings on that issue, I still think the Domi incident is a useful – though not exactly identical – comparator.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Feb 27, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
That was Sean Hill!
/pedantic fact-checking
Lighthouse Hockey: SBN's New York Islanders blog with hip issues.
That we know of :P
Next, the tell-all book from Random House: “Hill: ‘I injected Witt in the butt.’”
Lighthouse Hockey: SBN's New York Islanders blog with hip issues.
Every Thursday on XM radio you can call in and talk to Gary Bettman. If Witt doesn’t get a decent suspension maybe I’ll call in with the Domi quotes.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
If you’re going to call, you should talk to eyebleaf to get tips on how to get past the screeners.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Tip # 1
Tell them that you want to congratulate Bettman on the hard work he has done saving American franchises from folding.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
tip #3
“I want to tell Mr. Bettman the shootout was GENIUS”
Making stuff up since real Leafs news is far too depressing
Tip #4
“I have been collecting empty beer bottles for six weeks. With my financing now in place, I would like to make an offer to purchase the Phoenix Coyotes.”
Sorry, Odin. :-)
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Feb 27, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Witt to have conference call with Colin Campbell Friday at 2PM. I guess it’s too hard to get from Nassau county to Manhattan on a Friday afternoon.
My guess is Witt gets 2 games, just like Cooke and Gauthier.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Conference call means less than five games, right?
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Feb 27, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Lets be honest
We all already know the “wheel of justice” is a farce. It has been all season, and will continue to be until Campbell is gone or the NHL actually grows a set.
Yeah
But if we don’t get upset they’ll assume we’re okay with it.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
LOL
As much as you or I would love to send a tidy lil email to Gare-Bear and Colon, I highly doubt they give a rat’s ass. It would take some big internet campaign or something to even get a twinkle going in their eye. Gary gets booed EVERYWHERE he goes, and just marches on like a good soldier, he ain’t going anywhere and unless the actual owners come to their damn senses and realize that when Witter blindsides your player with an elbow, a blatant cheapshot, and knocks him loopy that you are losing money. Hagman still has to get paid…you would think these businessmen would want to protect their assets a little more than they apparently do. When the owners start to cry foul, then and only then, will you see Gary and Colin flinch. It’s sad but true…and I hope I’m wrong, but I fear that I’m not.
What about the coaches?
What I would like to see is the coach of these players suspended too. If a player gets an intent to injure type suspension (elbowing, boarding, etc), then the coach should receive a game or two. The NHL went down this road a few decades ago when they wanted to stop bench clearing brawls. The rule is the coach of the team whose player leaves the bench first gets suspended.
Granted, it is not going to curtail all such incidences, but I believe it would help reduce them. It’s one thing for a player to get a major and suspension, but if they have to face a coach who has now been suspended because of that player’s actions… well it ain’t gonna be pretty.
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