WE'RE #1!!!!
by Godd Till on May 12, 2009 2:44 PM EDT
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PrintEditor's Note: Who says the Leafs can't win anything? All it takes is for one bitter Habs fan to take potshots at the buds.
Who's the worst owners in the NHL? Tampa? Phoenix? Not even top 5 according the hockey hacks at SI *coughmichaelfarbercough*, who know that MLSE is the worst of them all!
Here's the criteria:
* Team's success or failure on the field.
* Willingness to spend money to improve the team.
* Stability and capabilities of the front office and management.
* Amenities at the team's venue.
* Club's culture and interactivity with fans.
Hmm. Getting 60% of those right, as MLSE have done (hint, 2-4) may get you through high school, but in competing with the tremendous ownership and management you see everywhere in the league, it's only good enough for LAST. My comment, crossposted from the piece at Mirtle's:
I can’t argue with MLSE’s placement (well, I could, but I don’t care to); this, though is ludicrous:
as MLSE is too busy running too many sports properties and breaking ground on too many real estate projects to pay enough attention to the Leafs.
I dunno, hiring Burke and Wilson and getting the hell out of the way is the exact amount of attention I want Larry and Peddie paying.
This is the best Leafs coverage in SI since the 'Most Hated Team In the League' piece. Memories!
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Michael Farber hates the Leafs. At least give weighting to the rankings so that you can justify skewing the ratings.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
this is retarded, the ACC is (apparently) a great venue, pre-cap the Leafs always spent as much money as anyone in the league, and the Leafs charities are tops in the league….
by Karina on May 12, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
jr nails it at Mirtle’s:
Reading SI to gain insight about hockey is like watching Fox News to learn about current events.
Seriously. What burns me is how many jokes own teams in this league (around 10) and yet the most profitable franchise in the league, with a very solid front office, is worse than CHARLES FREAKING WANG
exactly
the Islanders have had less success than the Leafs, a horrible relationship with their fans, an old building that needs replacing….. and gave out the stupidest contract in the NHL.
by Karina on May 12, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
did Damien Cox help write this?
Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!
by blindfolded tank driver on May 12, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
this ranking is not about business acumen, but it’s in the results on the team on the ice. The team is richest, highest contributor to revenue sharing, as a business it maximizes the value of its brand and assets for the benefit of it’s owners, that sounds like proper business. I wonder how well Farber’s favourite team has done since the time MLSE took over in 1994. I bet not so stellar.
Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!
by blindfolded tank driver on May 12, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
- Team’s success or failure on the field. – The best team in Canada since 1993
- Willingness to spend money to improve the team. – Consistently amongst the top paid teams in the League. At or near the cap until this year
- Stability and capabilities of the front office and management. – Burke and Nonis? Don’t get much stronger than that
- Amenities at the team’s venue. – ACC is one of the best venues in the League
- Club’s culture and interactivity with fans.- Leafs Nation
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Not first in the League, Conference, division or draft. At least we’re first in something!
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Another point
Because of the way they calculate the Win % the Thrashers have a higher winning% than the Leafs
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
whaaaaaa....
because the Thrashers made the playoffs to get swept in 4 games?
by Karina on May 12, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
SI isn’t about math and such, they sell girls in bikinis! They should stick to that
Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!
by blindfolded tank driver on May 12, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess it’s because they played in the no tie era
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Pittsburgh # 3 ??
So apparently you’re a good owner if you make your team go nearly bankrupt; have the salary cap save your dying franchise; suck it up enough to draft in the top 5 for a bunch of years, thus acquiring great young talent; basically force the city you’re in to build a new arena by threatening to leave; and then ride your young talent into the playoffs where your fair-weather fans will actually give a damn?
Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by empathetic association.
exactly.
A Toronto sports blog, where we unequivocally and unapologetically support the home team, and Mats Sundin, the GREATEST TORONTO MAPLE LEAF EVER...
PLAYOFFS!!!!1
Don’t forget trade away any NHL calibre players in an attempt to intentionally tank.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Tanking? Then I guess Wang is going to shoot up the list next year.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
that’s because he’s top notch ownership in the eyes of SI…
Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!
by blindfolded tank driver on May 12, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh, how long are we going to let Habs fans like Godd Till and Kim Jorn clutter up our site with their biased articles?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Fifty dollars says th-
Nevermind.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on May 12, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
preposterous
the leafs have:
- the best record of any canadian team since the sens joined the league
- always spent a tonne on player salaries
- a great venue
- a rabid fanbase
- always made a SHITLOAD OF MONEY
and they’re the worst owners? this guy needs a kick in the junk.
pittsburgh at #3 is beyond ridiculous. take away the sidney crosby draft lottery win and see where that franchise is.
hamilton?
Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!
by blindfolded tank driver on May 12, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Nicely played.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
I see what you did there. Splendid.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
if memory serves...
ANA came in second that lottery year.
That would mean PIT would Malkin and Ryan and ANA would have Getzlaf and Crosby.
In other words, I think PIT would be just fine.
"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on May 12, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Crosby has marketing appeal that Ryan doesn’t, and that lottery was a lot different than a normal draft lottery. Pittsburgh could have lost and drafted 30th.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Yeah
It was a different set up. They could have Malkin and no one.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
understood...
but it was still weighted pretty heavily towards the losers.
And honestly, I think them having Malkin and no one would still have them sitting pretty. More FA’s they could qualify.
"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on May 12, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
My .02...
…cross-posted from Mirtle’s site:
Phoenix doesn’t even make the list for "worst owners"? Really?
Let’s see: since Moyes bought the team in 2001, they are (by my math) 236-259-38 with exactly one season over .500 and one playoff qualification (they lost in the first round). Struggling under enormous debt load, they are now (depending on who you listen to) bankrupt, at war with the league, disappointing their fans throughout the southwest (again) and possibly on the move to Hamilton. But that’s not even good enough for #5, apparently.
I’m not apologist for the MSLE crowd, but seriously, how is that even possible? Oh, right – "intangibles". 1967. Right.
Reading SI to gain insight about hockey is like watching Fox News to learn about current events.
I like quoting myself. Makes me feel s-m-r-t!!!!
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
I don’t read so good. Think I could get a job at SI?
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Do you suck at math, too? Do your business acumen extend to saying the most profitable business is the worst run?
If you have all that, you can be Hockey Editor – you get to share half a desk two afternoons a week!
Hmmm….half a desk, two afternoons a week… that’s unpossible. No way I can work two jobs for 36 hours a week each.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
The Leafs have had tough luck and bad results at times (Okay, I’ve had a laugh a few times. I’ll forgive you when the Leafs outstrip the Wings…). The worst? Maybe up there as unluckiest, but the Leafs are at least in the middle of the pack when it comes to management. This last year, they’ve done well for themselves with improvements in the front office and behind the bench.
Nashville is pretty insulting, too. I mean, despite their troubles they’ve pulled together and put a decent team on the ice, nearly making the playoffs. Nashville is a small market; they need to realize this. It’s one of the few southern/near southern cities that can have a really characterful crowd (Watch a Wings game in Nashville and they get into it). Fuck them for the low blow there.
"Don't touch my dream with your dirty hands!"
by Justice and Rule on May 12, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions
I hate Richard Peddie, OTPP and the rest of MLSE as much as anyone. I’ve ripped them several times (including one spot that hasn’t seen the light of day yet, but might soon).
And all that said, this ranking is just ridiculous. I know SI wants Leaf fans to get all upset and write letters or hit the web site or whatever, but this is just dumb. It’s such a complete swing-and-miss that I can’t even get worked up about.
P.S. Did they give any insight into where Celine Dion will rank in next year’s ranking?
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on May 12, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions
Based on the logic in this year’s list, I’m guessing Celine will place in the top 5 at spot “h”, based on her wearing the second most jewel-becrusted gown to Winter Meetings. She will be behind Harold Ballard, two dentists from Elmira, New York who have never even watched a hockey game and Al Davis, who owns a football team and looks like a sea monster.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
I'm Confused
It seems like they’ve calculated the winning percentages differently for some of the teams. Sometimes they include the OT losses and sometimes they don’t. Maybe I’m just out to lunch (quite possibly). Does anyone know what is going on there?
Yeah I mentioned that. Atlanta>Toronto with SI calculations
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
525-439-89-61 is a .471 winning percentage?
This is clearly what they did:
525 wins/1114 games played = 0.471.
That’s not a winning percentage – that’s the percentage of games played that wound up as wins. That mysterious number 89 in the middle represents this mythical event called a tie. Even if all OT/SO losses are treated as losses, the record still is 525-500-89. That’s 25 games over .500, or .511.
Basic math, folks.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
One would think that a writer for a publication known as “Sports Illustrated” would understand the concept of winning percentage. It’s rather important in sports, I hear.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
did you send them this info on how to properly calculate winning %?
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on May 13, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you blame them? The win-loss system in the NHL is so convoluted and ridiculous (thanks Gary) that I bet JFJ doesn’t even understand it yet. In fact, I think I sometimes doubt that I understand it. What, you get 2 points for a win, none for a loss, unless the winning goal is scored in overtime, in which case the losing team gets an extra point, or if Orion is in the southern quadrant of space, in which case the loser gets an extra half point, unless of course the moon is full, and then not only does the loser get no points, but the winner gets a free steak dinner… Sorry, I’m still working it out. Thanks Gary.
by Pal Hal Pall on May 14, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I get your Bettman-hate but how is the win-loss system in the NHL convoluted?
2 points for a win.
0 points for a loss.
1 point for a tie (before the implementation of shoot-outs).
1 point for a shootout loss (no ties in the current system).
Not really sure how this is convoluted, sounds quite simple and no one has ever complained it to be confusing. And most importantly, the man is a sports-writer, he makes a living writing about sports so him writing about a sports-topic he doesn’t understand equals incompetence.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
hmm… I suppose I may have been exaggerating a little, thanks for pointing it out, it wasn’t fair of me. It also wasn’t fair of me to slag Gary, the guy’s a saint and has been the best thing to happen to hockey since James Creighton. But in your equation, you’re also leaving out that you get a point for an overtime loss as well. So maybe it’s a little convoluted, especially to someone who only watches hockey casually or mainly covers the business aspect of the sport? Maybe for a sportswriter it ought not to be convoluted, but for a casual observer, perhaps it might be. But forget convoluted, the system is so fucking stupid and senseless it makes me want to strangle myself.
by Pal Hal Pall on May 14, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Gary's great.
Don’t forget if it wasn’t for Gary we wouldn’t have the great franchises of Nashville and Atlanta, we wouldn’t have the shootout, we wouldn’t have the great financial security he fought for cancelling a season to install a cap (that’s minimum is now higher than the max of the first year) that’s so successful that only one has declared Chapter 11. I say that Edmonton (since he saved their franchise and all) build a statue of him right beside Gretzky, perhaps with his eyes facing to the great unexplored hockey regions of the South, and a calculator in his hand to figure out why a team with less wins finishes above a team with more wins.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Yes, a team with fewer wins can finish higher in the standings, and as Down Goes Brown pointed out, a season series can be won by both teams (as happened with the Leafs and Senators this past year), but the system isn’t convoluted. Go Gary Go! Fight to keep that team in Phoenix under the NHL’s control, maybe when the league itself loses $30 million, the Association of Retarded Billionaires, AKA the NHL Board of Governors, will finally realize that this guy is just awful.
by Pal Hal Pall on May 14, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Hate Bettman all you want, I hate him too but trashing him incessantly when you’re bitching about something that’s more under the jurisdiction of the competition committee and board of governors… and something so minor… that’s just silly.
And oh, I’m terribly sorry that I left out the overtime lost… yes it should read 1 point for shootout/overtime loss, by bad, haven’t had my coffee when I typed it… but yes, I can see how the addition of an overtime loss to the 1 point column would tip any causal sports fan over the edge from fully comprehension to utter chaotic confusion.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
It’s not about confusion, it’s just that you stop caring. Sports is supposed to be simple, it’s not supposed to take all that much abstract thought, you know, it’s supposed to be an escape from every day life. The point system shouldn’t rationalize the fact that the league doesn’t have much confidence in the shootout, or that overtime isn’t exciting enough. A win should count as a win and a loss should count as a loss, shootout or not. And if we don’t have confidence in it, go back to ties. Plain and simple. So it’s not minor, and yes the board of governors is at fault as well, but it happened under Bettman’s watch so ultimately, he’s responsible.
by Pal Hal Pall on May 14, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
By
your definition then we should get rid of virtually all rules within hockey to make it a more simple, and therefore more enjoyable sport, because some of my friends who are causal sports fans don’t understand how off-sides or icing work even after I explain it to them
I don’t like shootouts either, but mainly because it goes against the very soul and spirit of hockey which is first and foremost a team-sport, not because it makes the point system too difficult to understand
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
My definition? I don’t think I defined anything…
Anyway, no, I don’t think I suggested anywhere that there ought not to be rules; rules are the foundation of any sport, and you don’t have to immediately understand every single one to enjoy the game. I’m still not sure what counts as a foul in basketball, but it doesn’t prevent me from enjoying it. However, it is moronic to violate the fundamental principle of competitive sports, which is that one team wins, one team loses, and sometimes, in some sports, there is a tie. That’s something that a fan should be able to expect from any and every sport, and when you violate that, you’re not only making a mockery of your own game, you are turning people off. When I watch a regular season hockey game and it goes to overtime, my stomach turns and sometimes I don’t even watch it. Not because I’m against the four on four aspect, or against the shootout, but because what I’m watching doesn’t make sense and is a farce.
by Pal Hal Pall on May 14, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
the 3-point games make calculating ‘win %’ convoluted (as 67ers has pointed out below).
if i had to explain it to a casual fan, i would simply say “they got rid of ties, now you get 1 point if you lose the game in overtime or a shootout”. it’s not complicated at all, i’m sure most people could wrap their head around that.
as far as the violating the “fundamental principle of win-lose-or sometimes tie”… i guess they’ve strayed from that, but i personally don’t mind that they’ve got rid of ties. a tie is a very unsatisfying outcome to me.
Nashville’s a pretty good city to go to a hockey game in, I hear.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure!
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on May 14, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s simple enough but it’s dumb and the GMs’ insistence that it would ruin the hallowed history books to go to a more sensible option that would still allow the NHL’s dream of rewarding losers.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
haven’t they shown that changing to the 3-point game option would basically have no meaningful impact on the outcome of the season (in terms of teams making or missing the playoffs)?
i’m less concerned with the point scheme than i am with the current playoff seeding format. i hate when a team gets 3rd place and home ice advantage for winning their division, while 2 teams with more points than them end up stuck at 4th and 5th. that happened several times to the Leafs in the quinn era if memory serves.
Maybe, but the impact of 4-3-2-1 is huge.
4 – regulation win
3 – OT win
2 – SO win
1- OT/SO loss
Leaf, the universe and everything.
that system doesn’t solve the current problem of having some games be worth more points than others. A shootout win would mean 3 points are awarded, a regulation or OT win would mean 4 points are awarded. unless i’m reading it wrong – i’m a little slow today.
They show that applying it retroactively has no meaningful impact. Going forward I believe it would have at least as much of an effect as it has had in soccer where it has opened the game up (I know, it’s hard to believe) and encourages teams to attack from the beginning of the game.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
we’ll have to agree to disagree on 3-point games I guess, though how anyone can defend it is beyond me.
As for playoff seeding, the best thing to do would probably be to go back to a divisional format. Of course, that would be unworkable under the current alignment, which has 3 divisions per conference. To solve that, I recommend axing 2 teams from the league altogether, and having four divisions of seven teams. then, in each division, the top four teams make the playoffs. In order to make it to the stanley cup semi-finals, you’d have to win your division championship. I would actually prefer axing six teams and going to four divisions of six, but that might be a tad unrealistic, though who knows how colossally the league will end up failing under Gary’s watch.
by Pal Hal Pall on May 14, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
As for playoff seeding, the best thing to do would probably be to go back to a divisional format.
It shows Bettman’s lack of hockey knowledge that he can’t realize that rivalries do not grow during the regular season but the playoffs.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
yeah, and wouldn’t it be nice if the divisions still had names? Thanks Gary.
by Pal Hal Pall on May 14, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing like ignoring the history of the league (albeit a short one) in order to make it seem like every other league in NA.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
The history books have been ruined 1000 times over, anyway.
Seriously – when you are dealing with 18-game seasons in a three-team league with no forward passing, what is really comparable with today?
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Agreed. All the major sports have ruined their record books. Baseball was the sport where the records stood for long and meant the most but now the steroid era has ruined that.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Yeah
It’s a ridiculous argument from dinosaurs.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
There are two basic ways you can calculate it.
In the past, before the “thanks for coming out” points, you did it by dividing points earned by points available. If your team went, say, 42-28-10 (in the old 80-game sched) they would have earned 94 out of a possible 160 points. That’s .588.
Nowadays, you can look at it a couple of ways – let’s make those 10 ties into 10 OT/SO losses. You can still do points earned/points available and get .588. Others will say, “No, they actually LOST those games” and convert it to a straight won/lost calculation. The team would be 42-38, for .525. It breaks from how hockey has traditionally counted things, but you can at least see the argument.
The NHL made a mess of it with the three point games.
The mistake of SI was using the latter formula for games played when ties were allowed.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Did I tell them?
No, I’m sure they’ve been told several hundred times already.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
They also list “MLSE” as having owned the team since 1994, which is impossible since there was no MLSE back then. That’s not exactly inexcusable since it’s hard to track who owned what when, but they seem to be referring to when OTPP helped Stavro buy up the outstanding shares. And if so, they have the number of playoff appearances wrong too (since OTPP came in prior to the 1994 postseason).
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on May 13, 2009 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
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