The Waiting is the Hardest Part...
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 5:00 AM EDT
in From The Branches
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PrintRemeber way back when the Leafs drafted that one guy? Good times. Let's reminisce, shall we...?
- TSM tries their best to sum up the Leafs weekend. It was busier than you think.
- Down Goes Brown gives us the uncut Brian Burke conversations of draft day.
- Steve looks at the Pronger deal, and is hopeful for a similar dose of insanity when an offer for Kaberle finally comes through.
- In their usual (kind of) level headed fashion, MLHS reviews the draft.
- Meanwhile, Pal Hal Pall takes off the beer goggles and gets the morning after view of the draft.
- TML Fan Fury has a few suggestions for potential trade partners for Kaberle.
- Some random draft thoughts from the Toronto Sports Exchange. Warning, there are also some references to something called "basketball." I have no idea what it is either...
- Lost in the tongue wagging and mouth frothing of missed trades is the culture change Brian Burke has been working to implement.
- The Hockey News gives us it's All Free Agent team. Which one is signing with Toronto on the 1st?
- Not one to jump the gun, the Fanhouse asks, before John Tavares even steps on the ice, if the Islanders are relevant again.
We're in the home stretch now. For all your free agency coverage, check out SBN's Free Agency Hub!
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Pall Hall makes some good points regarding the hestitance of other GMs to trade with Burke.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
that being said a GM who doesn’t trade to improve his team out of fear or who doesn’t make a trade out of spite shouldn’t really be a GM.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
by furcifer on Jun 29, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
EXACTLY!!!
rec’d
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
come on now
do you really think that is possible. It sounds like something out of one of those sensationalistic unauthorized biographies…
These guys work together more closely than one thinks. The truth of the matter is, Toronto doesn’t have a lot to offer on the trade front. Unless Burke agrees to include picks, no one is all that interested in the prospects he is willing to offer.
End of story. Far less interesting than any speculation otherwise…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m just referring to what has been speculated by others.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
They were talking the microphone angle and Burke’s bluster about moving up as hampering possible deals on the radio as well. If it’s true it’s a stupid reason for a GM to not make a deal.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
So stupid
I don’t think it’s possibly true.
The only fault in Burke stating he wanted to move up in the draft (big shock, a GM who wants a better draft position. Stop the press!) is the MSM not realizing he didn’t have the goods to make it happen. It sells more papers to push the “We’re going to move up and draft 1st overall” angle than to do a little research (ie – look at the Leafs and Marlies rosters) and write an article that essentially says: “Good luck with that…”
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
+10 Blurr, I’m with you on this one
The only way Burke was going to move up to a top 5 pick was to overpay, there is no way he could’ve done it without including Schenn
We never had that many pieces to play with in the first place, Kabby was our best hand but he was never ever going to get us into the top 5 by himself
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
I’ve read too many comments saying Burke should have given up Schenn. I’d rather have Kadri and Schenn than just one of Tavares/Hedman/Duchene
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
The other impediment to Burke moving up that didn’t get a lot of attention was the state of the surrounding clubs.
Four of the top 8 had new GMs or ownership issues. That left Burke with the Islanders – who didn’t even take offers for their pick – and the King as the only legitimate trading partners.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
good point...
although, DGB’s “C. Fletcher” idea was pure genius…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Burke is partly to blame for talking about moving up building up the hopes of the fans so that no matter who they drafted people would be upset. The media though hyped it up enormously.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Burke couched his language pretty well, but he’s just such a blunt, passionate guy I think the fans and the media missed all of the conditional language.
He was also pretty upfront that he had no offers. Can’t remember how many times I heard him say things like there was zero interest and that he hadn’t gotten anywhere.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
No matter how many times he said that the media still acted like it was a real possibility.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
he said it enough, that you’d think someone would sense a story there. yet, nothing was reported.
why is it, no team has any interest in what Burke is offering? What ever could it be?
After Kaberle, we’ve got nothing. Steve’s piece on Kabby shows us where his value could be, but it seems to be focused on his cap value in relation to points totals. The thing is, if that were the case, Holmgren would have dealt for Kabby I think. There’s something to be said for name recognition, and Pronger has that. Kaberle doesn’t. To the casual observer, picking up Kaberle doesn’t entice me to buy a ticket. Pronger does.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
- The alledged offer to Atlanta was Kaberle,Tlusty and a 2nd for the 4th pick.
The same was also..alledgedly offered to LA.
I say alledged,because the “source” of both is Bruce Garrioch..Ottawa’s version of Strachan.
by wayne scarlett on Jun 29, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I like both those offers by Burke because he doesn’t include the first round pick.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
malkin is also going to the kings you know
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
and neither team bit.
What does that tell you…?
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re kidding right?
Burke never promised to move up, he didn’t even say he was going to move up, he only ever said that he was going to try to move up which is the goal of every GM. Its the fan’s fault for letting their own hopes get up high based on nothing.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
Hi Howard Berger.
A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...
PLAYOFFS!!!!1
hahahahahaha!
love it.
but, Winkle’s kind of right. Lot’s of us round these parts got pretty excited by the Schenn 2.0 hype, regardless of how far-fetched that idea seemed…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I should point out, myself included…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
i just have way too much fun with speculation
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Bleh. Speculate and get your hopes high all you want, don’t particularly care… just weary of seeing people blame everyone else instead of themselves when they get their bubble popped.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
when they get their bubble popped.
Giggity…?
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
KABERLE TO LA FOR SCHENN!!!!
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
That has to be the worst speculation I’ve come across in a long time, or at leasr since Eklund and Shoalts got to the bottom of Burke’s so-called twitter account.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Oh yeah!
Kaberle to LA For Schenn and Kopitar
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
and Brown…you forgot Brown.
Please….?
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
E2000
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
All right…I add myself to that class,Jared.And now class…what did we learn from all of this? Nothing? All right,it’s summer school for the lot of ya!! ( Myself included)
by wayne scarlett on Jun 29, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Fuck it.
We got Nazem Kadri.
One less point than Duchene, taller than Duchene, and a better playoff performance than Duchene.
Schenn has 88 points in 70 games. Kadri 78 points in 56 games. What’s not to like? Both are 6 feet tall, and all Kadri needs to do now is hit the gym and bulk up.
We got a great player. Moving up be damned.
A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...
PLAYOFFS!!!!1
he also does a sick ass toe drag
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
WOOOOO!!!!!
I’’m with ya, when we were talking draft picks, I seem to recall you and I being on the same page about him…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s becoming a trend, all this agreement b/w the two of us. Scary. But good.
A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...
PLAYOFFS!!!!1
don't worry
I still want to trade Kabby. We’ll always have that disagreement.
And Sundin…we’ll leave that one alone.
:)
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
You know who doesn’t want to trade Kabby? One Brian Burke.
He said it will take an offer that knocks his socks off to get a deal done, and that’s how it should be. Burke knows that nobody makes a cross-ice pass like you won’t believe like our boy Tomas.
A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...
PLAYOFFS!!!!1
If Gilroy had signed with us instead of the rags,Kabs would be gone already.
by wayne scarlett on Jun 29, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Kaberle, Kubina likely not going anywhere
You know who doesn’t want to trade Kabby? One Brian Burke.
Agreed, eyebleaf.
“It was not my intention to look at moving him while we were here.”
— Burke
“My inclination is that it has to be an offer that blows our doors off,”
— Burke
“I like this guy. Bet on him staying,”
— Burke
“But I’m going to have to be overwhelmed by an offer if I’m going to move him. I’ve said all along: If I deal him, I’m going to spend all summer looking for a puck-moving defenceman to replace him.”
— Burke
Anyone who thinks Kaberle is definitely gone is listening to the wrong people.
by general borschevsky on Jun 29, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Also the only reason Nasty Nazem wasn’t on the Canadian WJHC team is because he broke his jaw.
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Did I say promise?
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Doesn’t matter, Burke never explicitly said he would move up, he only said he would try.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
Saying he would try and move up is still
talking about moving up
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
and
what is wrong with that?
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
Like you said trying to move up is the goal of every GM, talking about it made fans think that the Leafs could actually do it which was what lead to the disappointment when they didn’t. I didn’t see the moving up as realistic but others did because the talk about it and the media hype.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Even though Cowen would be great I’m going to be pretty disappointed if we don’t trade up.
gabba gabba, one of us! :)
we all fell for it, hook line and sinker… (sorry, couldn’t resist…) I still love ya!
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
disappointed right, which is what I said I was.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
sorry
I was just taking the piss out of ya, no offense meant…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
peace and love
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
stop it, you two.
you should be basking in the glow of KADRI!!!!1 instead of hashing out this “let’s move up” bullshit.
Kadri.
A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...
PLAYOFFS!!!!1
but what about Barron?
WHAT ABOUT BARRON?!?!?!
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
meh
Dunno enough about this kid, hope he does well… I’ll reserve any kind of excitement for him though until he gives me a reason to be excited (i.e. performing well at the NHL level)
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
So that means you’d have been excited about no one but Tavares?
A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...
PLAYOFFS!!!!1
A little, but there’s a difference as Tavares have been trusted into the media spotlight for awhile now. At least we’ve seen that he is able to handle the pressure in an international tournament, that counts for something but not everything (i.e. Pogge).
But fine, I can be a little excited if Kadri does well in the minors, and maybe as I get to know him more but I’ll like to avoid as much hype as possible.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
hype is good, brother.
Kardri!!!1 is the new PLAYOFFS!!!1
What else do we have but hype?
A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...
PLAYOFFS!!!!1
I enjoy being the angry old coot who yells at kids to get off his lawn.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
I enjoy NASTY NAZEM!!!!1
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not even Tavares, he hasnt preformed well at the NHL level!
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
If you have
no expectations then you’ll never be disappointed
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
agreed,but you have to give Burke credit for at least trying.A lot of us are expressing disappointment that nothing happened.How much more disappointed would we all be if he had pulled the trigger and moved Luke to get the #2,when the player he said he wanted was already gone? How angry would y’all be at that?
Even moving to #4 or 5 would have cost them Luke.Not worth it.
Brayden will be RFA in 3 or 4 years,and the picks the Leafs would have to give up would be high 20’s by that time.I’ll wait for him.
by wayne scarlett on Jun 29, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
The Leafs have a lot more to offer than you think.But yes that is the crux of the problem.The kids are the ones everyone wants,but the Leafs need to keep them,if this cycle of frustration is to ever end.They had several inquiries about Jimmy Hayes,for instance.Burke loves this kid,and won’t trade him.Tlusty has also been asked about.
Some of the suggestions on the link about free agents,are too far out there for my liking.Komisarek? Bertuzzi? If either of those pieces of shit are signed by the Leafs,I will be following the Raptors this winter.
Beauchemin Colton Orr and Pauhlsson….those are the only ones I would go after.The Sedins? I could see that,but it means no shot at Rick Nash next summer,if he is UFA.
by wayne scarlett on Jun 29, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not holding my breath on Nash. He seems pretty happy in Columbus, and they’re poised to be pretty good for some time with the pieces they’ve got now. Their playoff appearance wasn’t a fluke like ATL’s. the central is a tougher division than the south east.
Beruzzi signing as a Leaf could very well turn me off the team entirely. Serious…
I like that Burke is keeping the kids. We’re going to have a lot of guys come into the league together. There will be familiarity and a team first attitude developed between them all. I want him to make big trades and sign big name FA’s, but on the flip side, I’d love to see this team develop as a home grown entity. If we can develop our own players, I think I’ll be happier than signing FA’s. The main knock against TO has been the drafting and farm system. It’d be nice to have that piece recognized as a strength for once…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
RICK NASH!!!!!!!11
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Rick Nash is like a lottery ticket – it’s fun to dream about him as a Leaf but the odds of it coming true are about a billion to one.
Lots of recent reports state that he’s on the cusp of signing long-term in Columbus. Howson’s a very smart GM, with that team needing to sell tickets there’s no way he’s letting that meal ticket leave town.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
RICK NASH!!!!!!!!!11111
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Bertuzzi – do not want
Komisarek – do not want
Beauchemin – yes please!
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Beauchemin – only if we trade Kaberle.
If I have to pay 100% of the cost for 90% of the stats, I’d rather have Kabby
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Jun 29, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
and so true…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Not true and not sensible.
Kaberle allowed 3.23 GAON/60 against -0.04 competition.
Beauchemin allowed 3.03 GAON/60 again +0.05 competition.
More importantly, trading Kaberle can net us a great prospect and a first rounder. If Beauchemin fills Kaberle’s role and we’re only out an extra $500K against the cap to grab a first and a sick prospect then you pull that trigger and pull it fast.
Kaberle saw easier minutes than Oreskovic and still sucked. http://www.behindthenet.ca/2008/basic_5_on_5.php?sort=6&mingp=&mintoi=&team=TOR&pos=D
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So basically, if you can sign Beauchemin you’d trade Kaberle.
Which is what I said I’d do.
Resident Capologist
If I have to pay 100% of the cost for 90% of the stats, I’d rather have Kabby
I’d rather have Beauchemin because he has better stats.
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Beauchemin is allegedly looking for Kaberle money – $4M+/year. I haven’t crunched the Leafs cap situation, but it’s a no-brainer to fit that in if one of Kubina or Kabs get moved.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
And I’d rather have Kaberle because he wasn’t in a contract year.
Not to disparage Beauchemin, who is a fine player, but when you’re putting up that kind of stats playing behind Pronger & Niedermayer, on the contract he was on, that’s fantastic. But he and Cammaleri reek of “contract years” to me. I’d be sincerely surprised if Beauchemin put up the same stats at almost twice the cost on a significantly worse team, with nowhere near the help (on defense OR in net) he had in Anaheim.
Basically, Beauchemin’s best year came in a contract year as the #3 D on one of the best teams in the league. Kaberle’s worst year came in a random year on his contract as the #1 D on one of the worst teams in the league. I have a hard time seeing similar situations if both are in different situations next year (which seems to be the case).
Resident Capologist
Behind Pronger or not Beauchemin faced harder opposition than Kaberle did.
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I’d rather have Beauchemin because he has better stats.
???
Beauchemin: Five NHL seasons: 21G, 69A, 90P
Kaberle: Ten NHL seasons: 73G, 360A, 433P
Last 5 seasons: 35G, 205A!!!, 240P!!!
Better? With all due respect Chemmy, what are you talking about?
by general borschevsky on Jun 29, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
With all due respect Chemmy, what are you talking about?
truculence?
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Who had the better stats in the month of November?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
WHEN IT MATTERED
oh snap
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
I think that he meant solely the defensive statistics.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Keeping the puck out of the net against good opposition. Beauchemin is good at that, Kaberle is not.
Historical stats are fairly meaningless. Hopefully last season was a one off but Kaberle has played like horse shit since he got laid out by Janssens.
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Keeping the puck out is important, yes, but that’s Schenn and Finger’s roles. You can’t compare a guy with 70 assists over 5 seasons to an All-Star with 205 assists in his last 5 seasons. Forget last year and even the year before. Kaberle is awesome and has abilities that can’t be compared to other defenceman.
The Janssens hit was definitely a major setback though, but I believe with the right puzzle pieces in place, Kaberle can return to form.
by general borschevsky on Jun 29, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Intangibles!
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you’re giving these GMs more credit than they deserve. Obviously their job is to make the best deal for their club regardless of ancillary stuff. But the fact is that they’re human, many of them egotistical, insecure, and just plain stupid (I’m looking at you, Slats). I am certain that they would be at the very least reluctant to go over and negotiate a deal with a guy who has essentially stated he’s looking for a steal and have that conversation recorded. That could ruin someone’s career. And yes, Burke did essentially say he was looking for a steal, for if you have nothing to offer and you still express cautious optimism that you’d be able to move up, you’re saying you want underpay.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
ALL GM’s want to improve their team.
Not a hard concept to grasp really. All GM’s are looking for the best deal possible. All GM’s say they are looking for the best deal possible.
Only in Toronto is that somehow construed as newsworthy.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
oh please, Burke did not merely state in general terms that he was going to do what’s best for the team. He stated specifically over and over again that he wanted to move up in the draft, and constantly reminded us how he has ‘done this before’. Naturally, other GMs would be weary of him. If he goes the slightly more low-key route, perhaps more discussions get started and who knows where they lead?
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
news flash.
Burke said the same thing as GM of Vancouver and Anaheim, and as you pointed out, said so himself.
What’s the difference?
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
the difference now is that the media records everything he says and repeats it about 800 times a day
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
bingo
making a story out of nothing.
Burke is a great sound bite. After Gretzky being traded to LA, he may have been the best thing for hockey in California. He knows how to get in the paper. That is his fault.
I however, don’t hold him responsible for having minimal pieces of value to trade.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
and
it becomes a game of broken telephone
honestly, what difference does it matter whether Burke spoke about his goals in public or not?
would it matter if there was “more” discussion? all the teams that were ahead of the leafs in the draft made it very clear that they were not going to deal with the Leafs unless Schenn was part of the package
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
sorry, Burke said the same thing or did the same thing? I’m pretty sure you mean he did the same thing.
I’m not saying Burke shouldn’t have tried to make a big deal. On the contrary. I’m saying he should have chosen a different strategy. His strategy seemed to be to posture for the Toronto media and mention at the slightest provocation that he is aiming to land Tavares or to at least move up. This seems to me to be the least effective way to get a deal done. Remember, other teams know he had little or nothing to offer. So when he says publicly that he wants a top three pick, other teams are immediately going to wonder what he could possibly offer. All that does is shorten conversations, because every time Burke calls, you know what he’s after and you dont’ make it your priority. It’s a lot different if Burke just calls them to talk in general and tries to guide it to discussions over moving up in the draft.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
his strategy
as Winkle points out above you was to not trade Schenn to move up.
In that aspect, he was successful.
Regarding moving up, I don’t know what else to say except, every GM wants to move up. Every GM will say so if asked. Every GM wanted a shot at Tavares. This wasn’t a case of Burke running around the draft floor yelling “WHO WANTS TO TRADE WITH ME!?!?!?!?” and GM’s, being media shy and all in cahoots to make Burke look bad, deciding not to play ball.
When it comes to negotiating, Burke does one thing very well. He says “this is what I want, and this is what i’m willing to give up to get it.” That is what he said hundreds of times over to the Toronto media. If that shortens negotiations, then great. look at the MASSIVE waste of time the Kessel deal was. All thanks to unclear objectives…
I’m not giving Burke a free pass here. All I’m saying is, the Leafs have very little to offer. What they do have, we’d rather keep anyways. His hands are tied in that respect. Whether he said it to a media scrum, or wrote it in his super secret diary doesn’t change the fact.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The Leafs have plenty to offer. They don’t have anything to offer that they don’t need.
Tlusty, Schenn, Bozak, Hanson, Stalberg, Hayes, Stralman are all pretty decent prospects. The issue is we’d like to keep them.
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didn't i say that...?
What they do have, we’d rather keep anyways
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
We have plenty to offer.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
the ‘plenty’ that they have to offer is the kind of ‘plenty’ that every other team has. Every team can lay claim a prospect they really love and a bunch of other guys with potential. In terms of valuable assets, they had very little.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
If we had something to offer, we would.
I don’t think we’ve got anything of value we can afford to part with. More fair?
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, the Leafs have little to offer, but you’re giving the other GMs way too much credit. NHL general managers have shown that under the right circumstances, they can be quite stupid. When you come out and say you want Tavares, everyone, including media and fans, is going to immediately and repeatedly point out that you’ve got nothing to offer, and rival GMs will immediately realize that unless the Leafs offer their next five first rounders or something ridiculous, there’s nothing really to talk about. I’m not just speculating: Garth Snow was clearly put off by Burke’s comments. Burke didn’t give rival GMs a chance to get stupid. He overplayed a weak hand, and failed at his objective to move up. His reaction to the Kings taking Brayden Schenn said it all. I’m not saying the draft was a failure, for he still got a great prospect. But he did ruin his own chances of moving up, of that I am convinced.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Snow was not going to trade his first rounder for anything short of most of Detroit’s current active roster. It doesn’t matter that Snow was put off, it was clear from the get-go that no one will want to afford the Islander’s pick, its a moot discussion.
All the other teams made it very clear that they will not deal their pick to the Leafs unless Schenn was part of the returning package. I don’t get how Burke ruined his chances, it didn’t change the landscape whatsoever, the price for moving up didn’t change, Burke laid out what he wanted, and the other GMs responded by giving him their price. Short and simple.
If anyone actually believes that Burke could have sweet-talked his way into a workable deal and moved up in the draft without giving up Schenn then they need to have their glasses checked.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
Right. Teams knew we weren’t moving Luke, so them asking for him is basically a polite way of saying “not for less than all the gold in Switzerland”.
Of course the Leafs would happily pay Switzerland’s GDP for a high first rounder if it were available like that, but I think you get my point.
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Oh c’mon.
These are GMs we are talking about, most of their business is to wheel and deal with each other. You don’t honestly think that Burke calls up other GMs just to shoot the shit with them and talk about the previous night’s UFC match? When Burke calls they know its because he wants something and vice versa. Burke isn’t some high school kid who has a crush on a classmate and wants to call her up and try to have a casual conversation so he can gently steer her into the idea of going out with him.
Burke’s just bypassing the opening pleasantries by turning to the camera and saying “this is what I want, call me with your best offer”.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
First, by all accounts these guys do talk to each other about more than just trades. Second, it is possible for one GM to call another to talk about deals in general, just to see if there’s anything they can work together on. I find it hard to believe that every conversation between GMs is either:
-Hi, Tavares avaiable?
-No
or
-Hi, Tavares available?
-yes, can I have Schenn and your next two first rounders?
-No
-Bye
Deals happen organically. They develop and they take time. I don’t know how exactly the Gilmour for garbage negotiations went down back in 91/92, but can you imagine if that was today and Cliff Fletcher, instead of keeping his intentions and the status of his negotiations private, had said “I want Doug Gilmour” publicly and repeatedly? For one, it immediately would drive up the price because he’d be exposing how badly he wants the guy. And also, every media person in the country would repeatedly point out that the Leafs do not have anything to offer for Gilmour and the rest of the package, and public opinion would be that Calgary would have to be retarded to make that trade. Consequently, the GM wouldn’t dream of making the deal. But it happened quietly, Risebrough thought he was getting a good deal, and later found out he got ripped off. Like I said, you’re giving these GMs way too much credit here. Garth Snow is, after all, the guy who signed Rick Dipietro to a 95 year contract, and the guy who traded for Ryan Smyth despite having pretty well no chance of signing him. To paraphrase Elaine Benes from Seinfeld, when you’re trying to get a squirrel to come over to you, you don’t want to make any loud, sudden noises.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think if you’re vewy, vewy quiet, Garth Snow might trade first overall to you.
Trade speculation has become a market unto itself only fairly recently. That’s more due to the 24 hour news cycle, than GM’s being more shrewd 10 years ago.
I’d agree that GM’s do have a tendency to make some ludicrous deals, but they each need to be viewed from the prism of that team’s fan base and expectations. Garth Snow keeping quiet about who he was drafting was a shrewd piece of marketing. We all saw the amount of interest that generated within the Islander’s own fan base. If anything, public opinion dictated that he not make any trade whatsoever. Regardless of who was offered.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Snow may not have been willing to trade his pick no matter what, you’re right about that. I’m not saying Burke definitely could have got something done if he had changed his strategy. But Burke went into this thing with a certain amount of arrogance. Here’s a quick lesson in negotiation: don’t publicly talk about how much you want something and then expect to get a good deal on it. Burke arrogantly said he wanted to move up in the draft, and expressed optimism that he would be able to get it done. By the time it was too late, he realized he had overplayed a weak hand and started talking about staying put or even moving down. But it was too late. He may not have been able to get Tavares, but I am convinced he could very well have landed LA’s pick if he had gone about it differently, perhaps even without having to give up the 7th. Under the right circumstances, LA maybe have been sold on Kaberle, a second and a third, and maybe someone like Didomenico, especially when you consider how much Philly gave up for Pronger.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
try this scenario:
PHI calls LA. Wants to move up to 4th, what will it take? LA replies with a below market request, because it’s off the radar.
That’s not going to happen. The teams in the top 5 held all the cards. You call asking about trading for their pick, they swing for the fences. Doesn’t matter how public the intention is.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly. It doesn’t matter what kicker you’re using, that goal post is still a hundred yards down the field.
As I said, the game has changed, draft picks and prospects are much more valuable then they have ever been with the cap coming down in 2 years and with many teams struggling financially.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
Whatever. I’m ready to move on from Schenn. The Staals don’t play together and they’re okay with that.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
fair enough. But Burke clearly wanted to move up, and he overplayed his hand.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Leafs could have prevented this by losing in November when it mattered.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
They could have prevented all of this by not hiring JFJ in 2003 (or was it 04?)
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
August 29, 2003. It should be a day of mourning.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Yes, the Kings would likely ask a king’s ransom. But the conversation would not necessarily end there, and quite likely wouldn’t even start that way. You’re oversimplifying because you’re reluctant to criticize Burke, who seems to have cast his charming spell on you.
There are millions of ways deals can get done. Burke could have sat back and waited for offers on Kaberle and then tried to turn one of those offers into an opportunity to move up, either by making a three way deal or by virture of an offer for Kaberle from a team like the Kings. Burke could have called the Kings to ask about other players, or just to see who they’re leaning towards. It’s not always so direct, especially with two months leading up to the draft. Again, this was by no means a failure for Burke in terms of getting Kadri at 7, or at least not yet, but with more subtlety Burke might have achieved more. If you want to be naive and think that all strategies for negotiating deals are the same, then go ahead. Seems a little far fetched to me though.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure why you’re trying to make this personal, but whatever…
I said previously, Burke isn’t getting a free pass. He wanted to move up, but not at the expense of losing Schenn (your 2011 Maple Leafs captain!)
I’m not simplifying things by applying your logic that GM’s are all idiots, and the only reason they didn’t trade with Burke is because he publicly stated he wanted to move up.
If you believed the hype (as I did) then you’re bound to be disappointed (as I was) when nothing much happens. Hind sight being what it is, I can see why he didn’t move up, and I’m not all that upset about it. I apologize if I’ve somehow offended you by trying to get that point across.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t mean to make this personal. Sometimes the true sentiment behind a comment gets lost online. If we were talking about this over beers, I’m sure you would never think I was getting personal. At least I hope not.
As for oversimplification, you’re right now oversimplifying my argument! I never said all GMs are idiots, I said some are idiots, and even those that aren’t have the potential to make boneheaded moves. Trading Tavares for anything the Leafs have aside from Schenn and a bunch of draft picks would require JFJ like stupidity. However, for the Kings to trade their pick for Kaberle and a few other assets is nowhere near the same kind of stretch. Yes, it’s all speculation, but Burke was clearly miffed that he failed to land Schenn the younger, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Burke’s arrogance, for that’s what his posturing was, after all, put the Kings off.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
PHP – There’s nowhere near enough information here to come to any sort of conclusion.
None of us know what Burke did away from the cameras and microphones or how he comports himself with his fellow GMs when he’s away from the spotlight.
None of us know what the Kings asked for or what Burke offered – it’s all speculation and it’s also water under the bridge.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
yes, water under the bridge, but still fun to talk about, no?
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
with all due respect PHP, brian burke has negotiated a lot more successful NHL deals than you likely have (unless you’re a GM), so i’m not sure he needs tips on ‘how to close a deal’.
and this isn’t poker (where players don’t know what the other players have), in these circumstances every GM knows what every other GM has. the fact that the Kings found out Burke was interested in Schenn from the paper instead of a phone call from him is irrelevant – as soon as they know that fact, they start thinking about what it will take for them to move him. the fact that they know burke really wants him doesn’t mean they’re going to turn down a reasonable deal.
Okay, so I guess we should all shut our mouths because we’re not Brian Burke? I’m not Stephen Harper, should I refrain from criticizing him too? There seems to be a tendency in this country, and it goes way way beyond hockey, to give authority figures the benefit of the doubt by virtue only of their status.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the difference is that someone like a prime minister can set policy, while a NHL GM has to work with other NHL GMs in order to make trades etc. It’s a two-way street. Burke could have had a bunch of excellent proposals shot down by boneheaded GMs through no fault of his own.
by LeafFanInVan on Jun 29, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Brian Burke is as open to criticism as anyone else. You don’t have to agree with what I say, but let’s not start throwing out the ’you’re not a GM, what do you know?’ argument. I don’t see the point of that.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, so I guess we should all shut our mouths because we’re not Brian Burke?
No. We can question Burke, his strategies, and his outcomes all we want.
What I’m having a difficult time with is people who seem to think they know what actually transpired between the GMs.
We have no idea how the conversation between Burke and any of the GMs went. We have no idea what role Nonis and Fletcher might have had in talking with Hextall or any of the other assistant GMs.
Given the asymetry of the information, I’d prefer to stick to the known than to have an argument over hypotheticals that we’ll never know.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Like I said below, I’m not arguing on hypotheticals. I am simply stating that I think it was unwise for Burke to publicly declare his intentions to move up in the draft, and that it may have hurt his chances of doing so.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe it’s just me, but these seem like pretty hypothetical positions:
Garth Snow was clearly put off by Burke’s comments.
Got a quote, a link, a youtube clip to back that up?
He may not have been able to get Tavares, but I am convinced he could very well have landed LA’s pick if he had gone about it differently, perhaps even without having to give up the 7th.
I would suggest that only Burke and Lombardi know the answer to this question.
Yes, the Kings would likely ask a king’s ransom. But the conversation would not necessarily end there, and quite likely wouldn’t even start that way
None of have any idea as to whether a trade offer has been made or by whom; how the conversation started, where it went or how it ended. None of us know whether or not a ransom was demanded.
Again, I have no problem with your statement above that Burke shouldn’t have tipped his hand, but we have no idea as to what actually transpired between Burke, his staff and other teams.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
we don't
but DGB does. That guy’s connected…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Garth Snow was put off by Burke’s comments. Don’t have quotes, and you dont’ have to believe it, but it was mentioned in the media several times. The other two propositions are hypothetical, but what’s not is the fact that Burke chose to go public and it was a failure. I don’t think we can say that we have ‘no idea’ what happened between Burke and other teams, as just today I heard it suggested on the radio that Lombardi may too have been put off by Burke’s media prominence. I don’t think these things come out of nowhere, but then maybe that’s me being naive.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d believe it if I heard it straight from Lombardi’s or Snow’s mouth. From any other source I’ll take it with a big grain of salt.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
There was no way Snow was trading the first overall pick. Other teams offered him assets too and he turned them down.
Other GMs know how Burke is. They won’t cower away.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
it’s not cowering. It’s just not wanting to bother with a guy who’s arrogant enough to state publicly that he wants your draft position while everyone in the world’s reaction is that he’s got nothing to offer for it.
And after Burke’s spat with Kevin Lowe, I do not put it past any GM to be starting to have enough of his arrogance. That being said, I never really thought it was a HUGE deal, I just hope that Burke will learn something from it. Whether a different approach would have landed him a better pick is debatable (I think we’ve proven that), but there’s no debating that what he did do was a failure which could indicate that his act is wearing thin.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Check this out
Trades are too important to let personal animosity stand in the way of good moves.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
there’s also a tendency for some people to be critical of authority figures for not doing things – no matter what effort was put in, how difficult the task was to achieve, how many specific details are known, or how much expertise the person complaining actually has in the area.
even though i have virtually no information on details of the negotiations, am i free to criticize david miller for his failure to get a deal done with the striking garbage workers? of course i am. it’s just not informed criticism. and it doesn’t mean i have a fucking clue how to handle union negotiations myself.
i also think there are just a lot of really cynical leaf fans whose default setting is ‘criticize everything’.
Here’s the difference. My critique of Burke in this instance is not based on my own speculation of how negotiations may or may not have went. The basis of my critique is his constant public declarations that he wants to move up in the draft. Speculation on negotiation followed from that.
So while it is one thing to say that in a hypothetical labour dispute (for I do not know too much about the Toronto garbage strike) management should have offered this or that in this way or that, or should not have offered x amount of money, for to make such claims, unless someone indeed has some sort of expertise in that field, would appear to come out of left field. However, I and any ordinary citizen would be able to legitimately say something like ‘management ought not to have come out and claimed right from the get go that they would never give in to the Union’, or ‘the union should never have boldly predicted that management would bow to their demands’, etc.
Also, sports is a bit paradoxical in that we are all amateur experts.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
but burke didn’t say he wouldn’t do X or Y… all he said was that he was interested in certain players. that’s like Miller saying “i’m interested in resolving this quickly” or “i’d like to get this done in a way that helps put the city in a better financial position.” he stated the obvious. if Burke didn’t say anything publicly, the other GMs would have known he was interested in those players the second he called about them.
regardless, i guess i’m speculating that GMs are reasonable and would have listened to fair offers that helped their team regardless of the fact that burke publicly declared his interest. you’re speculating that the GMs approached negotiations differently as a result of burke’s public statements, and that they turned down offers they would have otherwise accepted if burke hadn’t said anything. there’s no way of knowing who’s right or wrong, so let’s move on to free agency….
is anybody else already pissed at all the deals burke didn’t make on Wednesday? man, that guy is all talk no action.
well said, let’s move on,
and in moving on, let me express my trepidation about the possibility of Burke signing the Sedins. I’m just not sold on these guys. I’d actually rather have Cammalleri, who’s younger, a little grittier, and there’s only one of them so if the deal ends up being a fuck up, you’re on the hook for six million a year rather than twelve.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
the one big thing the sedins have going for them is consistency – they didn’t have a ‘contract year’ this year, just their regular offensive output. cammalerri seemed to have more of a breakout year.
but really, i’m not sold on either option.
Cammalleri has had a solid career thus far, albeit a short one. Yes, neither are ideal, but I’d rather make one gamble than two.
by Pal Hal Pall on Jun 29, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Cammalleri = do not want at $6 million cap hit.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
I’d take a pass on Cammalleri too.
With the cap in flux, the only UFAs I want Burke to sign are short-term deals with old, tough, vets.
Make the Leafs tough to play against next year and keep as many of the kids as possible in the minors for one more season.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
i've already made my arguments for Cammalleri
so i’ll just say, i do want…selfish reasons alone.
were i actually running the Leafs at this juncture, chances are I’d steer clear.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i also think there are just a lot of really cynical leaf fans whose default setting is ‘criticize everything’
I love that. glad i’m not the only one who feels that way.
eyebleaf is my patron saint of sunny disposition.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
i tend to err on the side of optimism as well – why would i want to be constantly pissed off at my team? – which is why eyebeleaf and me seem to agree on most things.
my group of leaf friends is about half optimists and half cynical bastards. not surprisingly, the cynical bastards rarely get the invite when i come into tickets. i don’t need them spoiling my good time.
I’m on the optimism side too. Call me crazy but I honestly think Leafs management wants to succeed. Yes, even the ownership goofballs want to succeed. They just didn’t really have a clue how to before now, and with a steady, seasoned hand like Burke running things it should all shake out eventually.
I’d rather judge the GM on things he has done (some great college signings, abusing certain media types, spoke his mind freely) than things he hasn’t done (used jedi mind tricks to trade Ian White and a bag of pucks for the isles’ pick, hold Lombardi’s dog for ransom to get Schenn 2.0 in a trade).
I know, it’s a crazy way to look at things.
by LeafFanInVan on Jun 29, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
To paraphrase Derek Smalls I’m the luke warm water between the frozen cynics and the fiery optimists.
I think Burke is in tough to improve this club in the short-term. They can’t afford to shed many of the assets they have, there isn’t a lot of immediate talent in the pipeline and the cap, team budgets, and the economy make trading tougher than ever.
I’m hopefuly the Leafs will improve, but doubtful there will be any quick fixes.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Yeah it’s fun to speculate big but in reality it seems like the days of the big exciting trades are all but over. The pronger one was a little goofy but apart from that there hasn’t been much of anything.
I’m patient and realistic so I don’t get the soaring highs or bottomless lows that a lot of Leafs fans enjoy/suffer from. Things are definitely on the upswing though, so that’s something to take comfort in..
by LeafFanInVan on Jun 29, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea
So the only thing that really stood between the Leafs and Bryden Schenn was Kaberle and Burke taking Lombardi on a date to see Cherie.
Snow may be stupid but he’s not an idiot. He’s certainly made silly moves in the past but anyone will realize that the only way for Snow to keep his job as the Isle’s GM AND trade the Tavares pick away is if he gets the other team to overpay by a magnitude of 20 billion.
Plus, the trade deadline had already set a precedent that the currency for future transactions are going to be draft picks and prospects. And honestly you’re really giving the other GMs too little benefit of the doubt to think any of them would’ve traded their picks to the Leafs for anything less then Luke Schenn.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
The Hockey News gives us it's All Free Agent team.
Pretty garbage list I’d say.. The only one worth anything (Sorry Antropov) is:
F – Mikael Samuelsson (Detroit) – The Red Wings sniper is buried beneath an onslaught of superstars in Detroit. He doesn’t get much power play time and rarely skates on the top two lines. But in a more prominent role on anther team, he could score 30 goals.
and maybe depending on the Monster:
G – Craig Anderson (Florida) – Tomas Vokoun gets most of the credit, but Anderson was a revelation in the Panthers net – especially in the first half of the season, when he was called upon more frequently.
From the all-overlooked Free agent list I’d want Johnny Oduya for sure and possibly Greg de Vries.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Oduya
From a purely cosmetic standpoint (I don’t watch many Devils games) I’d love Oduya.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
He can also be another Swedish player to enice Gustavsson and the Sedins.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
Antropov
His agent is Mark Gandler otherwise known as the idiot that handled Yashin which is probably why his advice has been so shitty.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
re: Anderson
He was stupid crazy awesome last season…
Contract year anomaly, or goalie finally coming into his own? Discuss…
Also, against my better judgement, I’m becoming increasingly convinced Gustavsson will sign with TO. That way, when he doesn’t, the crushing realism will hurt all the more… :P
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Vancouver columnists
are whiny
According to Tony Gallagher the NHL and the Coyotes stole away the Canucks chance to sign Bouwmeester.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
they should just shut the hell up and revel in the absolute steal they got in Schroeder
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently Schroeder fell in the draft because he’s incredibly stupid.
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well not everyone can be Dominic Moore
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He barely put his jersey on. The guy’s a meathead.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
From Gare Joyce
“Asked what his weaknesses were, he said he didn’t have any. Said he couldn’t really think of anything he needed to work on. Straight-faced.
“Asked who was going to be on his line at UMinn next season, he said that he had already told the coach who he’d play with.
“He was critical of team-mates and coaches and blamed the U.S.’s failure to win at the under-20s on everyone else except himself.
A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Toronto sports fans, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.
he’ll be bestest friends with Rob Schremp
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
This was my away message from before the draft:
“We are going to be a much more hostile group. We will be tougher. I’m not watching this again,” Burke said.
I think Burke did what he wanted to do.
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He did what he wanted to do. It wasn’t great, it wasn’t terrible, it was a pretty average draft day for us.
We got a good kid in the first and we drafted some size that’s pretty unimpressive right now.
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I bet Burke himself would agree.
Helps get him motivated to pull off a blockbuster come wednesday! Woo! free agency day! Also Canada day, but free agency! woo!
by LeafFanInVan on Jun 29, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Leaf fans. Free agents first, get your drink on for Canada Day second.
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
Hell yes, draft day + free agency is like christmas + new years in the summer time. Unfortunately, we got mostly socks for christmas this year, but then we needed socks.
Hope new years tears the roof off the mutha.
by LeafFanInVan on Jun 29, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Truer words...
Unfortunately, we got mostly socks for christmas this year, but then we needed socks.
rec’d for that comment alone sums up draft day to a “T”
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
plus
there were some nice dress socks thrown in…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I was trying to work Kadri into the xmas gift metaphor but got sidetracked. Perhaps a really badass pair of skates that you’ll have to grow into? heh
by LeafFanInVan on Jun 29, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
like a size too big. you could get away with wearing them, but it would do more harm then good.
but if you wait a year or so until they fit…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
and you have a neighbour whose dad wanted to get them for him, but your dad totally punked him
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
you’re annoying snot nosed whiny neighbor who gets all the kudos and none of the crap you have to deal with.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
not related to anything
Twitterers are tweeting the Blues just bought out Jay McKee.
Add another UFA to the “Do not want” pile…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, I remember when he used to be cool!
by LeafFanInVan on Jun 29, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i liked him in Buffalo when he wore #74 because that’s the number I always wore…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
when he left Buffalo he got injured a lot it seems and has never been able to regain his form…
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jun 29, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
McKee, Schaefer, McLean
All bought out with one year left. Too bad Burke couldn’t pick them up for the next year, stash them in the minors (or even play McKee if some D are traded) and pick up some 2010 picks (or include these contract dumps in terms of a bigger trade).
Hopefully he tried, anyway.
More hockey news
Sharks don’t qualify Goc, Kaspar or Plihal.
Goc is a decent 3rd liner. Just saying…
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 4:55 PM EDT reply actions
forgot the link
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Kaspar could be of interest. Still only 24, might be worth signing for depth on the Marlies and seeing if we can get lucky.
I like Goc.
I hope these aren’t the “big changes” Doug Wilson was hinting at for this summer…
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jun 29, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s a typo waiting to happen.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
could be
seems slightly out of character for the Sharks to give up on guys so young though.
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Bunch of re-signings
Jokinen (Jussi) in Carolina… Craig Adams took a 2 way deal to stay in Pittsburgh… Mike Weaver staying with the Blues.
All from Twitter….
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jun 29, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions
Mirtle's reporting
Peter Schaefer is on unconditional waivers, so it seems the Bruins intend to buy him out…
guess we’re not trading for him, eh? :)
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jun 29, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions
thank god
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
my thinking is that the only reason that was a rumour is because Chiarelli called up Burke and offered him. I see no reason Burke would actively pursue him.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jun 29, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe as a salary dump in a Kessel / Wheeler package, but thats it
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
and that’s not actively pursuing him….
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jun 29, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
semantics!
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
meanwhile...
the Panthers waived Brett McLean, and haven’t given all of their RFA’s qualifying offers… this means that Steve Eminger is a UFA.
Remember when he was the Caps’ best prospect? Whatever happened to him?
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jun 29, 2009 7:48 PM EDT reply actions
The Caps started drafting better...
Ovechkin
Green
Schulz
If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way. - Homer
The Left Coast Lock
by blurr1974 on Jun 29, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
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