Sugar High
I like that the Leafs are all truculent now. Not just because the word makes me think of truffles and om nom nom deliciousness. But they the Leafs are tougher and meaner and I keep hoping they will do something like this because I want to see the Senators bench cry, save it to my DVR and have it forever;
Here are your links, you know how it goes.
- The Blackhawks are shopping Patrick Sharp? Apparently and possibly to the Leafs.
- Markus Naslund and Brian Burke have been talking. Possibly making eyes at each other over a seafood dinner. Wait, I thought it was already official?
- Mike Komisarek is blocking shots and the season hasn't even started. Gross Misconduct has some screengrabs of NHL 09 and what the Leafs and Habs could look like.
- SPOILER ALERT: Down Goes Brown previews the upcoming schedule. Highlights include a pandemic, kidnapping and several spilled pints of blood.
- Eyebleaf invested in a new jersey. Take a look at it, won't you?
- More thoughts and theories on who could perhaps become a Leaf.
- Bangin Panger with why Versus is better than NBC. Hear him out, there are charts and graphs.
- In the ZOMG! department; here is just how much NHL teams travel. It's intense.
- Your non hockey link: This is Why You're Fat. I'd totally eat Snickers pancakes.
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Thanks!
I know you put it up as a joke, but thanks for putting up some NZ ice hockey content. I am a Canadian who has been living in NZ for over 3 years now. I have 3 videos up on Youtube that you might find funny. The first is of the National Team (The Ice Blacks) doing the Haka in a game this year against a team from Finland. The other 2 videos you will definitely find funny, they are videos of the initiation ritual that we put the rookies through on the team that I play for in the New Zealand National Ice Hockey League. Just as a word of warning, there’s a bit of nudity so it might not be something for those who don’t like that stuff or have a weak stomach.
Check them out if you want to, http://tinyurl.com/m6x4pg.
Unfortunately my hockey “career” ended about 3 weeks ago when I broke my neck in a game down here. Pretty scary stuff, but it could have been much worse because I’m still able to walk, just a bit of major surgery that went well and a neck brace that still has to stay on my neck for the next 10 weeks, but I’ll be just fine after that….I hope. After playing 20 years of hockey in Canada, I never thought that I would be playing in a league in New Zealand and then have something like that happen.
Anyway, that’s enough about me, just wanted to say thanks for keeping me so entertained on twitter and through blogs during this time. Knowing what’s going on in the hockey world back home always helps, and I just wish I was there to watch the Leafs smash everyone who steps over centre next season!
Cheers,
Andrew
http://twitter.com/andrewbourne
by AndrewBourne on Jul 16, 2009 5:37 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
goddamn man, get well soon and take of that injury! thanks for posting (and welcome abroad). It’s a great video! I’ll check out the rest of your videos and hopefully learn more about hockey down under. Do they always do a form of the Haka before sporting events? Because that’s awesome! I really would love to Leafs to do it Game One against the Lollipop Guild (does anyone else see them climbing up Hal Gill in terror?!) but I imagine the league would frown upon it.
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
and welcome abroad
oh haw haw I see what you did there!
Also welcome and thanks for joining. Scary stuff that broken neck but at least you’re not crippled because of it. You can probably stream some Leafs games off the good old interwebs next season if the time-zone differences work for you…
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
GRABBO TIGHT KOMIKAZI CUZ WE'RE EXELERATING INTO THE PLAYOFFS!!!!11
Welcome, and great video!
Take care of that injury, man – glad to hear that the prognosis is good.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Jesus. Sorry to hear about the neck. Get well soon! Will you be able to play again after the brace comes off?
Thanks for joining the site, I’ll check out the nudie videos when I’m not at work.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Thanks for the well wishes. Yeah, I will be alright soon enough I think. The surgery went well (or so I’m being told), but I don’t know if mentally I’ll ever be ready to play at that level again. I think physically my neck will actually be stronger with the new bone that they put in there from my hip and the metal plate, but it’s a question of whether I’ll be able to go into the corner at full speed to hit someone again…..it will always be in my mind about how in the blink of an eye, I almost killed myself or was paralyzed.
I will stay as involved as I can in hockey down here though, as it’s a growing sport and I’ve met some great people through it. They do need a lot more exposure down here, and we’re trying to get more of it televised which should be happening later this season. I’ll have to stick to coaching and teaching hockey though. Although the non-contact leagues might need my services when I recover!
yeah check out the other two videos that I have on there, they’re just a funny look at what we do to rookies after their first game. Don’t worry, it’s nothing too bad, just skating around in nothing but a little jock strap. The video from last year is of myself and one of our Swedish imports. This year’s video has quite a few rookies in it.
Cheers, and thanks again for all of your entertaining posts/blogs. Love hearing what’s going on with the NHL right now and can’t wait for Burke’s revamped Leafs to take the ice. Just curious to know though, have they widened the penalty box yet at the ACC to accommodate the potential of having 5 or 6 guys in it at times?
by AndrewBourne on Jul 16, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Luke Schenn just waves his stick and it magically expands. And becomes pregnant.
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
by kidkawartha on Jul 16, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Just as a word of warning, there’s a bit of nudity so it might not be something for those who don’t like that stuff or have a weak stomach.
Or to make it easier next time: NSFW
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
or “this link is rated at 10 Tlusty’s”
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
GRABBO TIGHT KOMIKAZI CUZ WE'RE EXELERATING INTO THE PLAYOFFS!!!!11
by Winkle on Jul 16, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
10 Tlusty’s!!!1 That’s hardcore porn!
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I fully approve of a Tlusty rating system
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
we had that at one point
but it seem to have fell into dis-use
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
GRABBO TIGHT KOMIKAZI CUZ WE'RE EXELERATING INTO THE PLAYOFFS!!!!11
you mean
seems to have fallen
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jul 16, 2009 2:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that Sucks
Hopefully you can get back to playing hockey and release truculence on the NZ hockey world.
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
So sorry to hear about your neck. I hope you have a speedy recovery.
I played with a guy a few years back who was one year removed from a broken neck and the whole head-screw neck brace contraption. It was amazing to see him come back on the ice and play in our men’s league. I don’t know that I’d have the stones to do it.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Wow
Welcome, thanks for joining and hope your recovery is speedy and complete!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Take care of the neck
I was in NZ in 2005. Awesome country. I was mostly in Wellington, but took a trip to Kaikoura as well. Went on a nice hike.
I have a question: is Haka just a Maori thing, or has it been adopted by all?
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 16, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I love the haka. I spent one afternoon reading up on it. It’s truly something great, I think.
(843): the red head has a bf
(1-843): just because there's a goalie doesn't mean u can't score
by Wrap Around Curl on Jul 17, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, that Barry Rozner fellow seems to have just a wee bit of an anti-Tallon agenda. I’m not disputing the fact that Tallon has created a mess cap-wise in Chi-town, but about the only thing Rozner missed criticizing Tallon is alleging that the guy had poor oral hygiene or something.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
that was great.
here’s another one: Dany Heatley: Well Done
A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...
PLAYOFFS!!!!1
Thoughts and theories
This might be influenced by my desire to see Kaberle stay, but it seems to me the only names on that list of who might be coming to the Leafs would be the Laich-Finger deal, and the Sharp-XLB deal. But Burke won’t trade that guy so soon after acquiring him, will he? Tanguay as free agent, meh.
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 16, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions
for sharp, I think x to the B is gone
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 16, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
XLB for Sharp would shave $2.6M off the hawks cap hit this year and $3.9M a year to 2012.
If the Leafs are interested, I’d imagine Burke would have to add a prospect and/or a pick at the very least to get a deal like this done.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Hopefully that prospect is not Stefanovich or NSFW
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
I think XLB for Sharp straight up could happen. Granted the salaries aren’t equal, but that’s the reason Chicago would be moving Sharp anyways, to free up cap space for this season and more importantly, next summer.
Also, Chicago is top heavy in forwards, but lacking depth at the blueline right now. They need another defenseman.
Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by osmosis.
Definitely, the Leafs are doing the Blackhawks a favour by taking that much money off of their hands.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Not to mention a contract that is somewhat long for a team that is in a bind… honestly i wouldn’t be surprised if a bunch of teams colluded to not make a deal with them so that they all have a shot at Keith Toews or Kane
Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform?
I still don’t think XLB is enough to land Sharp.
If a slow skating, depth D-man who occassionally lands a big hit and earns about $1m/year is all it takes to land a young 25 goal scorer with lots of upside, I’d imagine there are at least 10 other teams in the running.
To my mind, that means competition and it means the Leafs may have to sweeten the pot.
I could be way wrong on this one, but I’d be stunned if a straight-up XLB for Sharp deals goes down.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
not everyone has the D depth, cap space, or available finances to make a trade like that. i don’t think there will be that much competition, but there will probably be some.
the cap issues in chicago are so well known, and this isn’t just any old salary dump… they’re trying to free up room to sign 3 players that could be the core of their team for years and years to come. if i’m an opposing GM and i’m helping to make my competition potentially stronger for a long time, i’m going to want to be compensated handsomely. otherwise i say ‘f8ck it’ and just plan to pick guys off waivers, or throw an offer sheet at toews next year.
All it takes is one other enterprising GM to push the price up. If I were Nieuwendyk, I’d be on the phone to Bowman right now.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
agreed – all it takes is one guy to drive the price up.
but like chemmy said below, i don’t think the names being thrown around – sharp, versteeg, byfuglien – are marquee players, just well paid, some might say overpaid, complementary pieces. i don’t know how many guys will want to offer their competition cap relief and give up a pick or propsect and only get a complementary piece in return.
Not Straight Up
But not that expensive. The other teams also have to be able to take on salary which not every team can do. So picks but not high picks like I’ve seen suggested or Tlusty.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Thanks PPP – that’s been my entire point here. I don’t see this deal being XLB for Sharp straight up.
The reality is the Hawks desperately need cap relief, but the trade has to have some sort of “win” factor for the new GM.
Hell, even Boston was so delusional that the price to move their big ticket in Kessel was Kaberle.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
There’s no accounting for sanity!
There’s still a lot of summer left too. Stan will get an itchier trigger finger the closer to training camp and the start of the season that he gets.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I think the other GMs will make Stan sweat the decision a bit and wait until he needs to reduce that cap. This also gives Stan an opportunity to source out the best way to deal with the cap situation. I think if the whole XLB for Sharp thing happens, we swing various mid round picks…like giving them a 3rd and we get a 5th or something of that ilk.
And Stan needs his first deal to be a good one, the fans are testy about the in house politicking and what to believe their team is in it for the long haul.
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s probably a good reason while it’ll take a long time too. Right now I don’t know that Hawks fans could stomach this trade on the back of the bloodless coup.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
a nice Chicago riot would be fun, I’d be shocked if we saw a hawks deal before the last week of August…but then I’m not there to get a pulse on it
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
No way… Sharp has only put up decent numbers alongside Kane and Toews (who couldn’t honestly?) and it relieves the Hawks of Cap room which means Toronto is doing them a favor..
Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform?
Another factor to consider: does anyone think Stan Bowman wants his first-ever NHL trade to be moving a promising youngster for cap relief?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
It doesn’t matter if he doesn’t want to though. The only other options he can exercise are moving Hossa (impossible after the 12 year contract especially at age 30) or moving Brian Campbell (also likely impossible because he is highly overpaid). However, if those are not options he will have to move Huet and hope to dear god he gets a decent return which is also unlikely since he rode the pine pony for most of the 08/09 season.
Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform?
The Hawks can go into camp 10% over cap, which means they don’t have to do anything until nearly October.
Bowman has a few of options to free up cap space and I’d bet Byfugelin goes before Sharp. He had a huge playoff and his value has likely never been higher.
If I were advising Bowman, I’d recommned signing or trading for an upgrade in nets and waiving Huet to the minors.
Sharp for Harding is way more palatable than Sharp for an a depth d-man like XLB. It’s youth for youth and it has the added benefit of clearing loads of cap space as both Sharp’s and Huet’s contracts would come off the books.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Why trade for another young goalie when they have Niemi and Crawford -young cheap, and putting up very good numbers in the A?
And also Bitter, it’s an easy sell – he’s cleaning up the other guy’s mess. How much grief did Fletch get about the buyouts and dump of McCabe? Exactly.
I’d suggest the best way to clean up a mess is by dealing the aged and the undesireables – the McCabe’s, Tucker’s and Kubina’s.
If I were a GM, I wouldn’t start by trading away a kid who has the potential to be a 30+ goal scorer for the next decade.
Bowman also has to come to work with Tallon each day, so I’m not sure how much of the blame game he can play. If Tallon had been outright fired and wasn’t with the organization it’s way easier for Bowman to keep his hands clean.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Good points – however I take it you agree that the Sharp for Harding trade doesn’t make sense for CHI?
As to Sharp, my worry about him is that he’s Jason Blake Jr. That’s a useful player, but stll just a complementary piece.
That’s a beautiful way to put it.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
plus, we already have one of those: Stepniak.
I want some who has proven they are top line talent. Like Kessel.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jul 16, 2009 2:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Man
I feel bad but I ALWAYS forget that we have Stempniak. Without fail.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Don’t worry, PPP, everyone does
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 16, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why I only want a vary high end forward. we’re full of these second to third liners that could be just as good as Sharp. They’re just facing top pair dedencemen every night. They could do better with more talent around them.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jul 16, 2009 2:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A new variant on “TWSS”:
“That’s what Ron Wilson said.”
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Stempniak?
I hope Burke didn’t give up too much for him. He’s invisible on the ice.
Is it October yet?
I was about to reply with a post about Fletcher making the deal, but then I reread what you said so we will just stick with
I see what you did there.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 16, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t have to be Harding, I was just trying to think of a goalie that’s got a good pedigree, is somewhat NHL tested and likely to be on the market that would let the Hawks clear Huet’s cap hit off the books…
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
You play Niemi in a platoon at the start of the year and then see if he plays well enough to send Huet down. No assets surrendered or salary taken.
You play Niemi in a platoon at the start of the year and then see if he plays well enough to send Huet down.
The trick will be getting to the start of the year. The Hawks need to move about $3M in salary just to hit the top of the cap.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Patrick Sharp has a $4M salary cap hit and is injury prone. He has the potential to play up to his contract but he has a big potential to underplay it.
Hawks need cap room and Sharp’s contract ain’t great. Waiving Huet to the minors is likely a no go for ever attracting a free agent ever again. Guys like Mark Bell and Ryan Hollweg lost their game and went to the AHL. Huet can still play he just can’t live up to his contract.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I don’t buy the waive a guy and not get FAs again. Name one team that waived a FA signing and hasn’t been able to attract another.
I think the ego on most player is such that they’d never consider themselves as waiver wire fodder.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
I agree with this. You’d think Toronto would have trouble attracting UFAs after spending a year trying to trade Mats, driving McCabe out of town, buying out Raycroft and Tucker, sending Kubina to Atlanta, and the non-stop trade talk around Kaberle but they just landed 3 of the most rated free agents
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Which one of those guys did we stuff in the minors for two years?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
None of them yet but you have to agree that none of that is necessarily what free agents allegedly want to happen.
As MF37 noted, the mentality of players likely doesn’t allow them to consider that it might happen to them.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
So we traded McCabe and Kubina as per their contracts and they played in the NHL the whole time.
Then we bought out Raycroft and Tucker’s contracts which combined with them re-signing in Colorado meant they earned just as much money as they had previously and played in the NHL.
Additionally we had a major front office change since all of that, excepting obviously Kubina. The Hawks can’t send a $5.5M player to the minors for THREE YEARS and expect free agents to sign with them.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
McCabe and Kubina were given NTC/NMC as part of negotiations that there were part of the team’s future. When things went to shit they were hounded by fans, the media, and the team management to wiave. They were then traded to Florida and Atlanta.
Fuck Raycroft but Tucker bypassed free agency, his only real shot at getting paid, in order to commit to Toronto and one year later he was jettisoned.
The Hawks have also had a major front office change…
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
if Tucker had gone to the open market and gotten more money, his new team probably would have bought him out by now as well. it was just unfortunate that we had to be the ones to do it.
I agree which is why I don’t think that it affects the views of other UFAs.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
The Hawks haven’t waived Huet to the minors yet.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Yeah but you seemed to be suggesting that that absolved the Leafs in their year-long badgering of Kubina.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
PPP and Chemmy arguing gives me a funny feeling….BCWW
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
seriously… there’s a lot of tension here. could there be a “chasing amy” moment at some point in their relationship?
Joey Lauren Adams in ONLY a Felix Potvin jersey.
Best scene in cinematic history.
“Degrassi is on in 10 minutes”
“Why do you have such an affinity towards Canadian teenage melodrama”
“I can’t help it. I have a thing for girls that say aboot”
Identical to Sergei Berezin in every way, only 1/10 his size.
From Russia with GLOVE SIDE!
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 16, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Have never seen the movie, gonna acquire it tonite
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW
Do it!!!1
Identical to Sergei Berezin in every way, only 1/10 his size.
From Russia with GLOVE SIDE!
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 16, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Their badgering of Kubina? Kubina had an NTC. Burke said he wouldn’t ask anyone to waive and that Kubina had an opening after the draft.
Burke traded Kubina after the draft.
If you think that’s badgering I don’t understand how you could possibly think stashing Huet (who in his “off year” last year put up a .909SV% in spot starts) for three years in the minors wouldn’t make UFAs hesistant to join your team.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
The question remains
Has any team dumped a big UFA signing in the minors?
I know of large salaries parked there, but to my knowledge none of them were recent UFA acquisitions.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Mogilny signed with the Devils at the start of the 2005-06 season and was dumped in the minors mid-season to make room for Elias.
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
And have the devils had a harder time attracting UFAs as a result?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
they don’t exactly retain many nor attract a lot of big UFAs…but I imagine they get the ones that fit into their budgetary plans
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Godd Till made a good point, especially combined with MF37’s point that “it’ll never happen to me”, but UFAs will probably also look at the money, the coach, the system, their teammates, the city, etc.
I’m not arguing that if you banish Huet to the AHL you never sign another UFA ever, you just make it harder on yourself than if you hadn’t done it. Maybe that’s worth it if you’re up against the cap and can’t sign anyone anyways.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I think that you have it right in a macro sense. Sure in most cases a player will avoid places they feel management will and can shaft them by dumping them in the minors, but it won’t be in every instance that way. Some players will risk it to play for a good team with a chance to win it all. but I don’t imagine Huet beleived he’d ride so much pine last season when he signed that deal.
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Players will follow the money. Thanks to the cap their options are already limited. It would be interesting to see if maybe there is actually a monetary premium that you have to pay for past treatment of UFAs.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
New Jersey doesn’t really sign UFAs so I guess they probably don’t care. Also I believe Mogilny was on the last year of his deal. If he was still young and in his prime with three years on a contract then it’d be a better comparable.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Right. There’s no precedent to dump a high priced “top flight” UFA into the minors a year after signing him because the contract is bad.
If Huet pulled a Raycroft sure, but he hasn’t. I was talking to Godd Till and wondering if the NHLPA would even let that happen.
Mark Bell to the AHL? Ok, everyone agrees he lost his game and belonged there along with the drunk driving problems. Ryan Hollweg to the minors? He was obviously out of control and stunk at hockey.
Huet put up a better SV% last year than any goalie the Leafs have had since the lockout excepting JS “11 good games in his career” Aubin, and $5.5M isn’t completely batshit.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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How would the NHLPA intervene if Huet was waived?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
I would imagine the NHLPA would file a grievance on his behalf. I don’t know if it would work or not.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I remember hearing Glenn Healy talk about this when he got brought on. The NHLPA does not take kindly to players being banished to the AHL for Contract reasons
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW
but if it’s allowable under the CBA, so basically other than pissing into the wind and complaining about getting wet, what can they do about it?
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
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by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Healy can yap all that he wants but I don’t hear him complain when the players are benefitting from circumventing the cap. Not to mention that he doesn’t have a leg to stand on. What’s he going to do? Get the PA to collude? Illegal. He’s just a lot of hot air.
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I do agree with that. Classic napoleon syndrome
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
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he is funny stuff at times though…but full napolean complex! …“I took the Isles to the semis in 93! I rule!”
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
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by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know that the PA could do anything at all. What rules are being broken? None whatsoever.
It would be a hell of a trade-off though because you’d essentially be paying the rest of the contract in order to keep Kane and Toews. Once you send him down it would be a last-ditch move because you couldn’t trade him anymore because teams would just wait for you to bring him back up and then the Hawks are stuck with 50% of the cap hit for three years.
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Healy shot his mouth off over McCabe being banished to the press box or being sent home by the Leafs, not over being waived.
I have no idea if the NHLPA could or would grieve a player being waived. I don’t know how they could, to PPP’s point, I don’t think any rules are being broken.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Here’s an NHLPA grievance filed because Tkachuk failed a physical and was suspended by the team until he passed. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2005/09/20/tkachuk20050920.html
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Suspensions have an appeals process. As far as I know, waivers do not.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
My mistake MF, thanks for the correction.
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
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No worries leafer, I hope I didn’t come off as trying to be corrective.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
A grievance doesn’t necessarily mean a rule was broken.
It can also exist to clarify situations not covered in the rules, like the undrafted European thing going on in this grievance: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/11/05/Union-Grievance-0/
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How is this situation not covered though? The waiver rules are clear, the salary cap hits are clear, and there is nothing that comes close to suggesting that there is a skill/production threshold for burying players in the minors.
Also, these guys are on one-way contracts so they still get paid.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
A grievance doesn’t necessarily mean a rule was broken. It can also exist to clarify situations not covered in the rules,
Waivers are covered pretty exhaustively in the CBA.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Fletcher asked constantly, made it clear that he was upset that he didn’t waive, and Kubina was hounded in public all year long by the media. I tend to trust Burke so when he says that he didn’t ask him to waive I believe him but as soon as Burke could he moved him and made other plans for the future.
For a guy that wanted to stay in Toronto getting traded to Atlanta away from the main reason he signed in TO is a bit of punishment.
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The media aren’t the Leafs management, and since Fletcher tried to run him out of town Burke took over. This is a new management group.
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Fletcher’s still a consultant and he was at the Leafs’ draft table but Komisarek, Bozak, Hanson, Gustavsson, and Beauchemin all signed.
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Do you think anyone in the entire world thinks Brian Burke cares what Cliff Fletcher says? Come on.
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Do you think anyone in the entire world thinks Brian Burke cares what Cliff Fletcher says?
Chuck Fletcher?
eh, maybe not.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Well, if a player is taking into account previous demotions of UFAs as you suggest then is it so crazy to think that they might balk at the presence of the guy that dealt with the Muskoka Five?
I am not saying that Burke does anything other than thank Fletcher for the coffee but under your scenario which I already don’t believe is it really that insane?
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Well, if a player is taking into account previous demotions of UFAs as you suggest then is it so crazy to think that they might balk at the presence of the guy that dealt with the Muskoka Five?
I am not saying that Burke does anything other than thank Fletcher for the coffee but under your scenario which I already don’t believe is it really that insane?
I have no idea what you’re getting at.
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You’re saying that sending players to the minors will make UFA balk at signing with the team that has buried players in the minors.
You also suggested that it doesn’t apply to the Leafs because Burke is new management.
I am saying that if you really believe that players are not going to sign for the team because of their treatment of previous UFAs that were buried in the minors then it’s not a stretch to think that they might consider the presence of the guy that was pretty dismissive of NTC/NMC.
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Personally
If I were a NHL player, I would avoid a team that did that. You sign a contract in good faith, honour it.
Fletcher asked the guys to waive, they didnt, that is their right. It was also Burkes right to trade Kubina to Atlanta.
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW
If I were a NHL player, I would avoid a team that did that. You sign a contract in good faith, honour it.
Fletcher asked the guys to waive, they didnt, that is their right. It was also Burkes right to trade Kubina to Atlanta.
Players may have been asked to waive but Fletcher didn’t demote everyone without a NMC to the Marlies which the Leafs could have done financially.
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I agree with Chemmy, strange to type that.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 16, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Altho I will say that any UFA’s that don’t pull their weight and get ‘buried in the minors’ had clear forwarning of it…
Burke specifically said
I am not afraid to bury money in the minors.
So no one should bitch if they underperform and end up playing for the Marlies
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 16, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Huet is not that bad. Over-priced maybe, but everyone was saying that about Khabibulin at the start of the year, and yet he was the one that they went with. Chicago is ok in goal. They just need to make a move. Sharp is the easiest one to make. He’s not so much a promising youngster as a young guy who had a career year.
I see mf37 just commented mentioning Byfugelin. I agree: value is high now. But maybe he has a better upside that Sharp? Also, Buff seems more like a Burke player (as in he’s HUGE).
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 16, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s another topic for debate: if you’re going to poach from the Hawks b-list talent, who’s likely the best fit for Burke and the Leafs?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Hands down it would have to be Byfugelin. That boy’s got a mean streak and is pretty talented to boot.
But then again, I think the Leafs have enough guys like Byfugelin. They need guys like Toews and Kane.
Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by truculent osmosis.
Every team needs guys like Toews and Kane.
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I think it’s a pipe dream to get guys like Toews and Kane…I say we get Versteeg, Sharp or Byfuglien at best
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I vote for Oilers’ era Gretzky.
It ain’t happening.
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by Chemmy on Jul 16, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not with that attitude
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can we have Messier too
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I want Orr. He’ll turn the rest of them into Gretzkys and Messiers….
Leaf, the universe and everything.
good news
We just signed Orr!!!
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW
I want the GOOD one….
Bobby at 61 and no knees > Colton, even if he’s tough as nails….
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Knees are over rated
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by JaredFromLondon on Jul 17, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate Byfuglien.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Jul 16, 2009 2:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I assume you have to be a never nude to eat it.
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
I have no idea what any of that means, but I do know this. I would eat the Tobias with or without clothing on.
Wings fan by birth. Leafs fan by osmosis.
See “Arrested Development”
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
“It’s exactly what it sounds like”
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 16, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
How can that be called a Tobias if it doesn’t include any bangers in the mouth. Oh I forgot, over here, we call them sausages in the mouth.
by Hungry Leafs Fan on Jul 16, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We just call it a sausage.
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
rec’d for the arrested development reference
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
Possibly the funniest show in the history of television. EVER! Thanks to this thread, I’m going to spend the weekend watching an AD marathon.
by Hungry Leafs Fan on Jul 17, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
AD
How I love thee.
“Welll, when I get a wee bit scared I hum a little tune, humm diddly hum dee do”
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW
Sugar High
I was looking forward to an Empire Records filled post.
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
Believe me, I considered it. But I think I’ve used it before.
(843): the red head has a bf
(1-843): just because there's a goalie doesn't mean u can't score
by Wrap Around Curl on Jul 16, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
This is Why You’re Fat= my daily menu. Go Flyers!
A Nation of Masochists TRUCULENCE!! It's not just a word. It's a way of life.
This is why you’re fat is kind of disappointing. Let me show you my recipe for deep friend butter. Go Flyers!
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needs more lard
"I'm not surprised in anything that has happened." - Brian Burke
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 16, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Starting a new thread, too cramped up there.
mf37, article 11.08 of the CBA contains the following:
No Club shall act in bad faith to deprive a Player of rights or benefits
under this Agreement or any current SPC or with respect to Deferred Compensation
earned under a prior SPC.
I think the NHLPA would be able to claim that moving Huet to the minors because Chicago signed a bunch of stupid contracts would be acting in bad faith to deprive Huet of rights or benefits. If he plays in the AHL for three years because of Chicago, Huet’s next contract will be smaller than what he’d get if he could ply his trade elsewhere in the NHL.
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Excuse me, that’s in section 11.9 (e)
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It’s an interesting argument. As I’ve said many times, the only thing I’ve learned from working with a bunch of lawyers is that there’s no such thing as an indefensible or unarguable position.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
I mean, someone defended Paul Bernardo for fucks sake
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW
Lawyers are a special breed.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
There is a special place in hell for that one
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW
Not to get way off topic here, but I think it’s essential that all citizens have the right to legal counsel and representation before the courts. In many of these terrible cases it’s often more a matter of making sure rights are upheld than it is “defending” the accused.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Yeah, that lawyer probably thought the defendant was a scumbag but we have laws and courts to make sure people’s rights are upheld despite public opinion.
Don’t worry about going off topic, I don’t think there’s a lot left here. We can all post until we’re blue in the fact about this.
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i feel bad for defence lawyers sometimes… of course everyone has a right to a fair trial, and think of all the people that have been wrongly convicted… but can you imagine having to defend him? jesus.
and i just saw Bitter’s post below… he’s exactly right about upholding rights vs defending.
I agree, everyone has a right to fair trial and blah blah blah. I still stand by my statement that a special place in hell is reserved for him
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW
The lawyer or Bernardo?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Yup, and the dick who defended Carla hid video tapes until after her sentencing that – if they would have surfaced – would have kept her in jail much longer.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 16, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not quite accurate. She turned evidence that they the crown was unaware of in return for a reduced sentence. Sadly this sort of thing happens all the time.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
any current SPC or with respect to Deferred Compensation earned under a prior SPC
Nothing there mentions future SPCs. He’ll still be getting every penny he is entitled to under his current SPC.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I think there’s enough there for the NHLPA to argue it’s case. I didn’t say “THE NHLPA WILL WIN THIS CASE IN A LANDSLIDE!!!” I said they’d probably file a grievance.
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Yeah they can petition the Pope too. All I am saying that I don’t think that they can win it.
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I thought the Pope was a habs fan?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
So why are we arguing? I didn’t say they’d win it, I said they’d probably file it. Do you think the NHLPA would be happy about this move?
I would imagine the NHLPA would file a grievance on his behalf. I don’t know if it would work or not. – Chemmy
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We are arguing because I still don’t see a passage in the CBA that gives them an opening to file a grievance besides the “We Just Don’t Like It” clause.
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The NHLPA doesn’t need an opening to file a grievance. I linked you to a filed grievance above because Tkachuk was too fat to pass a physical.
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As MF37 noted, there is an appeals process for suspensions in the CBA.
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I’d love to know what the mood is inside the NHLPA. With rumours of another cap rollback in the New York media, you have to wonder if the NHLPA might be looking to flex a little muscle with the owners.
I also wonder if a grievance would be enough of a deterrence. If waiving Huet were what I wanted to do, I’d do it regardless of what the NHLPA threatened.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
You’re saying that sending players to the minors will make UFA balk at signing with the team that has buried players in the minors.
It would be a factor. Given two teams both with equal salaries, good teammates, good system, good cities, would you sign with the one that HAS buried players in their prime in the minors for three years or the one that hasn’t?
You also suggested that it doesn’t apply to the Leafs because Burke is new management.
Firstly the Leafs, and the rest of the NHL, haven’t pulled a “Huet to the AHL” move yet. It’s unprecedented. Secondly, yes, Fletcher asking Kubina et al. to waive their NTCs was part of the old guard and bringing in Burke is going to buy us a lot of credibility moving forward from there.
The Hawks would need to waive Huet with their current management and then that same management would have to go hit the UFA market. That’s the difference. Who’d Cliff Fletcher convince to come here as a UFA after his handling of the Muskoka Five?
I am saying that if you really believe that players are not going to sign for the team because of their treatment of previous UFAs that were buried in the minors then it’s not a stretch to think that they might consider the presence of the guy that was pretty dismissive of NTC/NMC.
Brian Burke showing up, taking the reins, and being a “good faith” GM who doesn’t ask people to waive their negotiated NTC/NMCs erases the poor handling of the Muskoka Five.
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To answer my question as UFAs under Fletcher post-Muskoka Five we signed Finger and Hagman. Most people agree we overpaid for Finger.
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Hagman’s a great signing but his rationale would be something like
“If I play like crap they’ll try and trade me or pay me to go sign somewhere else” vs. “If they spend too much money on someone else’s contract I’m getting banished to the AHL”.
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Maybe
Hagman got a limited NTC so I would say that it’s probable that it was on his mind that he didn’t want to get traded if things went tits up quickly.
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Given two teams both with equal salaries, good teammates, good system, good cities, would you sign with the one that HAS buried players in their prime in the minors for three years or the one that hasn’t?
I’d argue that under the current cap system a player isn’t likely going to find himself in such a situation where the decisive factor is whether a team has stashed salary in the minors. By your own admission it’s already at least the 5th decision criteria without taking into account previous relationships with players or management, playing time, opportunities outside of hockey.
I’ll concede that it’s possible that it is a decision factor because never having been an NHL player or signed one to a contract I don’t know that it’s not somewhere in the matrix but it would be way down the list.
The rest is just hypotheticals that we were discussing. As you noted, Fletcher was able to sign two UFAs. Not necessarily big guys but they are two guys that would have cause to think that their might be negative consequences if they played poorly especially at their salaries.
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Playing time? Isn’t that what they’ll be taking away from Huet?
Also signing UFAs post “Muskoka Five” is a lot different than signing UFAs post “Demoted a guy who has performed well to the AHL for three years”.
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Maybe that’ll be the move that finally quantifies the belief that how you treat your UFAs carries through to others because I am not sure that you can show that it has been a factor otherwise.
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Another hypothetical
If the Hawkws waived Huet and the NHLPA grieved it, would Huet’s cap continue to be counted until the case was resolved or would it provide temporary cap relief for the Hawks?
If it’s the latter and I were GM, I’d be tempted to try it just to buy some time to sort out the rest of the cap mess.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Well
If the Leafs are a precedent, the cap hit won’t count and then if the Hawks lose it will count and they’ll get screwed over.
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Didn't a similar thing happen
When Malakhov was a Devil, didn’t he get sent to the minors, then later traded to the Sharks with a 1st round pick?
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW
Yes but he was injured.
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That video would have been cooler if they’d designed their own haka and not just ripped off one used by the All Blacks.
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into Iraq"
- Major Mike Shearer
well they are wearing all black, maybe its a tribute?
Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 16, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
At the very least, I’d hope they were kiwis
The one in the videos’s a copy of this one
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into Iraq"
- Major Mike Shearer
They are kiwis. The dumbest thing is that Appleby (a school in Oakville which is west of Toronto) uses the Haka for their rugby team. Even worse was that they stunk while I was in school.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
That’s just dumb. Teams from New Zealand are the only people who have a right to perform a haka.
And even then, they’re beginning to overuse it
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into Iraq"
- Major Mike Shearer
not just an All Black thing
As some people have already commented on, the Haka is NOT just an All Black thing. It’s a traditional chant/“dance” perfomed by polynesian men. It’s become synonymous with the All Blacks because they do it as a war chant before their matches. It is also done as a sign of respect at funerals, and it’s also performed by other sports teams (unfortunately it seems to happen too much so it’s losing it does lose its lustre at times). I’m a Canadian living down here and out of respect I would never do the Haka myself. The one in my video that I put up is the New Zealand national ice hockey team, which is mostly comprised of kiwis. To be a part of that team you must first become a New Zealand citizen. The video that was posted on here was done by the Ice Blacks as well, and again it would have been either kiwis on the ice or players who have become New Zealand citizens. Just to let you know, there are All Blacks that aren’t Kiwis (or more importantly Maori’s) that do the Haka, and it has caused some tension when they are playing against teams that contain some New Zealand born players.
Just so it’s clear though, it’s not necessarily a New Zealand thing, it’s a Polynesian thing, so there are countries in the south pacific that do the Haka (Tonga does a version before a lot of their matches too).
Sorry, just wanted to clear the air there……and I can’t help it, I have a lot of time on my hands being stuck at home in a neck brace all the time!
Cheers!
by AndrewBourne on Jul 16, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Tonga does a version before a lot of their matches too.
That part I knew :) Thanks for the clarification.
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