Rangers walk on Zherdev....no shocker...more to come
Courtesy of Newsday's Steve Zipay (@stevezipay). Now that getting him involves moving no assets are you hoping that the Leafs will sign Zherdev?
almost 3 years ago
PPP
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Absolutely… Burke should be kicking the tires here, at a minimum.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Aug 4, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions
Agree
He now costs the Leafs’ no assets which was one of my big hang-ups, he’s only 24 so I guess he can be taught to play defence, and worst-case he is gone after a year (if he takes a one-year deal).
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
He won’t take a one year deal and his price just went up.
Zherdev used to be an RFA locked to a 3.9M 1 yr deal. Now he’s probably $4.5 for 2-3 years.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Take a chance already
Give him a $4 or $4.5 mill a year two year deal, and see where it takes you.
They won’t get a better player without dealing Kaberle, and this let’s them get a player of that caliber without giving anything up.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Hey it's just money
and technically it’s my pension plan paying for it so I say SPEND IT.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 4, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
They won’t get a better player without dealing Kaberle, and this let’s them get a player of that caliber without giving anything up.
That’s a really good point. Plus, those numbers he put up were with a offensively deficient outfit.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
trading for Zherdev was a bad idea.
signing him would give us another right hand shot, but paying him twice as much as Poni for the same production…?
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Prediction: Poni, Kulemin, and Zherdev could all have break out seasons if they play together.
by general borschevsky on Aug 4, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Poni’s contract, it sickens me to say, is just that good. If the Leafs use him as a salary ceiling then they’ll never sign a guy that good because that contracts way below market value.
By comparison, he’s 11 years younger than Blake and cheaper.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
i know i know
i guess i’m worried about creating a log jam of forwards.
or, is that this “depth” everyone has spoken of previously?
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
depth is a wonderful thing
It leaves more manouverability for burke to trade off players like Stempniak or Blake (not that anyone would go for that)
Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 4, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
New Picture of Stempniak relaxing in the off season:
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Looks like he is having fun!
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 4, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Leafs are currently about a million miles away of having a log jam at forward. You need to have some actual logs for that to happen.
Maybe they have a twig jam.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Aug 4, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
more 3rd liners than you can shake a twig at!
Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 4, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
rec’d
Identical to Sergei Berezin in every way, only 1/10 his size.
From Russia with GLOVE SIDE!
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 4, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
3.9-4.5 for 2 years, no NTC, no NMC and ill like it
Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 4, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions
no
NMC/NTC
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
NT is ok with me, but the No movement is a no no… how can we bury money in the minors if we NM them?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 4, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't hurt
Or, at least not that much if the deal makes sense for the Leafs.
Can’t say I’m a huge fan of his, but I haven’t followed him as closely as Blue Jackets and Rangers fans would have. Seems immensely talented though, and if we can make this a good situation for him he may shine.
I agree with others here, start with a short-term deal around the arbitration mandated price and see what happens.
Being a Leaf fan here requires one to be sufficiently lubricated... and truculent!
Not exactly
But I discuss it in my posting.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 4, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
how long can the team be over the cap?
plus, if Burke signs Zherdev, then needs to clear space, he’s dealing from a position of weakness. I know we won’t want salary coming back, but a sure fire 2nd round pick for a player like Poni (who I don’t want traded, just going by your examples in the link) could degrade into a 3rd or 4th rounder.
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Worst case scenario, just bury Lee Stempniak’s 2.5 million salary in the minors until somebody wants to take him off our hands. If nobody wants him, oh well. I don’t see Stempniak standing in Burke’s way if he can improve the team.
by general borschevsky on Aug 4, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
i get all the “bury salary in the minors” arguments, but I’d rather try and get something (anything) for a player than lose him on waivers and still pay for half his salary (if he’s lost on recall…)
yes, MLSE can afford to just bury money in the minors, but it’s not good management to lose an asset for nothing. If Stempniak does improve in the minors and he gets called up, we’ve lost him.
Big picture, that’s piss poor management.
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point
I always forget the reentry aspect.
Is there anyone we suspect that won’t be picked up for half their salary? Or anyone we don’t care to bury as they play out the last year of their salary. Van Ryn maybe? I’m not sure how much trade stock he even has right now.
That’s assuming that Stempniak is an asset.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Aug 4, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
if he’s untradeable, then he’s untradeable
but if he gets better in the minors and some one wants to take a chance on him, then he’s lost on recall. the leafs have half his salary on the books and nothing to show for it.
Does that salary show against the cap? If so, then you’ve actually put the organization in a hole with less cap space and nothing to show for it.
Yes, everyone hates Stempniak. Let’s lose him for nothing. Brilliant. At the beginning of this past season, we couldn’t wait for White to be tossed overboard and would have willingly paid for him to leave. Now, not so much.
You can’t manage a team by just throwing away players without some consequence. Waivers is an embarrassing thing for an athlete, and if Burke just sends every player he doesn’t like through them, eventually no one will want to play here
Still, that gets away from my original point. I’d rather see the position cleared for him before he signs, than lose players for nothing, or get lowball offers for them.
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
You also can’t manage a team by letting potential impact signings go just because you are afraid of a worthless asset suddenly having some sort of value.
If Stempniak leaves on re-entry waivers it’s less than $1M for just one season. Hardly an onerous amount or term. If he stays AND costs the team a shot at a player that the team has identified as having actual value then suddenly Stempniak’s cost is the cap hit for his last year as well as all of the lost years of Zherdev (or any player that Burke wants to bring in).
Also:
Waivers is an embarrassing thing for an athlete, and if Burke just sends every player he doesn’t like through them, eventually no one will want to play here
Needless to say, I don’t believe that at all. The same could be said for being benched or having your coach/GM call you out in public.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Aug 4, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Stemps deserves another shot, he wasnt exactly terrible he just wasnt putting up points. If he is terrible and doesnt redeem himself like Blake did, then he is a lost cause.
We are quite good at throwing players under the bus arnt we?
Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 4, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Our bus has 43 years of momentum.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Aug 4, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
NO YELLING ON THE BUS!!!!!!
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 4, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I call backseat
Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 4, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
He wasn't putting up points
or killing penalties, or fighting, or hitting everything that moved, or blocking shots, or doing anything other than taking up a roster spot and collecting a pay check regularly… and one that was too big for him while we’re on the subject.
He wasn’t the worst player on the team, but he was pretty far from the best, and he wasn’t worth his contract. Bad trade.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
but if he gets better in the minors and some one wants to take a chance on him, then he’s lost on recall. the leafs have half his salary on the books and nothing to show for it.
There’s always a chance a team trade for Stempniak at that point. Re-entry waivers is just that – any team has a chance to claim him. As such, a good team won’t land him for half-price if a lower ranked team claims him. Therefore, the Leafs can still get something back, either a low draft pick or prospect, by trading him to the team that most wants him and doesn’t want to risk losing him to another GM.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
I think that even if they trade him then he still has to go through re-entry waivers so no team would trade for him because he could be lost to them and then they’d get the cap hit.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Aug 4, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
In the past, Burke has said he will bury underperformers in the minors if it allows him to bring in players that make his squad better.
Link.
by general borschevsky on Aug 4, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand your point, but let me put your argument in a different way. Would you trade Stempniak for Zherdev straight up? I’m sure that most of you would answer an unhesitant “yes”. Essentially, that’s all the “bury the salary in the minors” argument really is – trade Stempniak to the Marlies for Zherdev to have space/cap room to come on as a UFA. We lose Stempniak on waivers, then we’ve gained Zherdev as a result. If Stempniak doesn’t go on waivers, then we’ve still probably not lost anything anyways, as we probably don’t want him playing for the big club anyways.
by Blue and White Expat on Aug 4, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Bury Suckniack if you have to. Give Zherdev 4 mil for 2 years to see if he can play. Tell him that if he plays well he’ll be the go-to guy for our big cup run in 3-4 years. THEN you can sign him to bigger points. But he’s gotta prove himself. If he doesn’t want that, but wants to make 4.5 mil per playing in like Nashville or something, well, go get paid then son. We’re here to build a team with ppl who want to win.
by theothervatican on Aug 4, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
agreed
and rec’d.
I can’t deny I’m cautiously excited about the potential. He’s instantly the most purely skilled forward on the Leafs current roster. The rest of his alleged failures (motivation? defense?) can be tinkered with but the kid can fly, and put the puck in the net. He’s got three seasons with 50+ points on two of the most offensively-stifling systems in the league.
I think we’re all freaking out about cap space here. A contract in the $3 to $4.5 million per season range doesn’t scare me, as long as it’s reasonably short term. 2 years sounds about right.
There are assets that can be moved to make it work later. We’re not talking about being $10 million over. If they went over I suspect it would be something close to about $1million. Again, workable.
Grabovski is going to make $3 million this year. That hasn’t generally been seen as a wild overpayment, so by that logic, a 25-year-old talent of Zherdev’s calibre seems worth $4M to me.
Enigmatic? Yep. KHL flight risk?? Likely. But how often do you have an opportunity to sign a talented sniper ( with 3 seasons of 20+ goals already to his credit) who has yet to enter his prime and not give up any assets to make it happen?
Zherdev turns 25 in November and I think his skill set makes him worth the ‘gamble’.
Yo Steve
Couple questions about your post – Zherdev got first line mins before the trade to NY, correct?
And ’it’s expected the Leafs will be suitors’ – by who, exactly? Just curious…
In regards to my post
Wyshinski, MLHS (who are seeming more like HockeyBuzz these days but whatever). So I’m not making up the expectation side of things… I do wonder if he’ll walk to the KHL for more money though.
As for his minutes prior to playing in NY, he fluctuated around 17 minutes per game in Columbus right out of the gate before being given 19 minutes a game in his 4th year there. He was playing about 17 minutes a game last season in New York.
The Supporting role thing would be in reference to the fact that he was playing with players like Rick Nash, Scott Gomez, Chris Drury, and Markus Naslund. He wasn’t THE go to guy on any of the teams he’s played for so far… even if he was the leading scorer in NY for most of last season before Antropov arrived.
Yes he was playing top line minutes.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
He actually
was playing the 5th most minutes of all the Rangers forwards last season behind Drury, Gomez, Naslund and Callahan. He was 4th in PP time behind Drury, Gomez, and Naslund, and he didn’t play on the PK at all particularly.
I suppose that means he got 2nd line minutes?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
In Columbus
he was playing behind Vyborny, Nash, Fedorov, Modin, Chimera and Malholtra…. so yeah maybe I retract the top line minutes thing.
He’s been a 2nd line winger so far in his career really aside from 1 year in Columbus after Fedorov was dealt to Washington.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I seriously doubt that Ryan Hollweg has either a hear or a soul.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 4, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahaha
The rebuilding has spread into its fifth decade.
Also wrong. Also fail. Seriously? We’ve been rebuilding for five decades? How do you figure? Even if you ignore, (as the author apparently has) the trips to the Conference Final in ‘93, ’94 and ’02, how do you figure this rebuild has been going on for five decades? Assuming for the sake of argument that everything that happened since 1967 is the living embodiment of one rebuilding process (which is no more ridiculous than anything else in this article) last Cup = ’67, so no rebuild then, right? Earliest possible commencement date = seventies; continuation in eighties, nineties and aughts – by my count, that’s four fucking decades. At most.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Sports Writers
aren’t typically renowned for their math or journalistic abilities on average.
If you want journalism or in depth reporting you usually look in the meaty section of the paper that discusses meaningful world issues.
Sad to say, but those of us that are infatuated with the numbers and gritty detail of sports are left to our own devices on most days.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
If you want journalism or in depth reporting you usually look in the meaty section of the paper that discusses meaningful world issues.
Sadly, there’s not much there either.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Aug 4, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is why I mainly read the paper
so I can find out who Paris Hilton is banging at any given moment.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Sports Writers
aren’t typically renowned for their math or journalistic abilities on average.
Somebody should start up a website to mock these guys and keep them honest.
/looks in direction of Cox Bloc boys
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
We did 2 years, it’s someone else’s turn.
That’s right, Cox Bloc is ALL OF YOU.
/slowclap
by Godd Till on Aug 4, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
/slowclap
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Aug 4, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there a “Godd Till” that isn’t Godd Till?
by general borschevsky on Aug 4, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
/slowclap
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
I wanted to post something mean like “Toronto’s won a playoff game since 2000” or “We’ve been to a conference final since you joined the league” or “call me when your team wins a playoff game”.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
He just did?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Did he? I was just going by the “I wanted to…” line. I figured he hadn’t.
I'd rather be insufferable and them have nothing - Karina
I Meant
he just did… in here.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I meant on Portzline’s website. I posted that we’ve been to 4 conference finals since 93.
I didn’t post anything mean there because I like Columbus.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Yeah...
Columbus is nice if you like tires… or … Ohio State, or obnoxious skin head footie fans.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Well I like Rick Nash and Steve Mason and they hate Detroit so go Jackets.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
He's a Rangers guy
so Hollweg is one of the few names he recognizes on the Leafs.
Stupid of him to think Hollweg even warrants consideration above the other “heart and soul guys”… I mean come on… we just signed Colton Orr for chrissakes!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
That’s an excellent example of why it’s almost impossible for writers to be truly national anymore. That guy has no clue what he’s talking about.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Aug 4, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is an intereseting quote fom a guy over at tmlfans.ca that I really agree with, and I don’t like Stajan but its hard to argue the logic.
So Zherdev at 24 years old scores 58 points, is suspect defensively , and is awarded 3.9 million $ and everybody wants him .
Stajan at 25 years scores 55 points with inferior linemates, is responsible defensively , paid 1.7 Million $ , and people talk about buying him out , or adding him as a throw in for nothing in every trade ?
I hate to keep referring to my own work
But Zherdev has done a lot more than Stajan ever has… and it’s not really a valid point.
Stajan has 1 SEASON with over 50 points. Prior to that his high water mark was 39 points, and he’s never scored over 16 goals… ever.
Zherdev has scored 54, 61, and 58 points in 3 different seasons, playing for Columbus and the NY Rangers (both very defensively oriented outfits) while playing on their 2nd lines… i.e. not consistently playing with their top line players.
Stajan had the two best Leafs as his wingers… and he hit a mark of 55 points. Zherdev has much better potential, and I can’t understand how people fail to see that. Stajan works his ass off and gets 55 points playing with far superior players. Zherdev plays with average to semi-decent talent and gets 51 points as a 19 year old.
Stajan scored 27 points as a 20 year old. Stajan has only been given top 6 minutes for the past 3 years, but his average over that stretch is 13.6 goals, and 28.6 assists… that’s 42 points.
Zherdev has averaged 19.8 goals and 28 assists for 5 seasons in the NHL. That’s 48 points. They aren’t equivalent, and that’s why Zherdev is worth more money.
This isn’t rocket science.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Oh and one more thing
How are Stajan’s linemates inferior? Antropov had 58 points last year and Ponikarovsky had 61 points last season. They both had more points than Stajan, and they both had more points than EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE NY RANGERS.
Following that Logic then Zherdev scored 58 points with even MORE inept line mates. He produced more with worse players? So I guess he somehow isn’t worth more money?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Woops
Antropov had 59 points… not 58. typo.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Here's my (likely not) Final point on this subject
Last season, the 2 players Nikolai Zherdev skated with more than any others were Aaron Voros and Brandon Dubinsky.
Not to belittle them as NHLers, but do you really think Aaron Voros and Brandon Dubinsky are superior offensive talents to Antropov and Ponikarovsky?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Not as fast as Dr. Steve but same idea
Stajan’s pevious season high was 39 points. Few expect him to reach 55 again. Zherdev has reached 50 three times (54, 61, 58) and I would think expectations are even higher for the future.
On the other hand, if Zherdev doesn’t have a 50+ point season, then he’s a total bust for 3.9+ million. Stajan, meanwhile is versatile enough that he can still be used very effectively.
by general borschevsky on Aug 4, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
If Zherdev can score 58 points
in a season where he skates mostly with Voros and Dubinsky, and only puts up 10 power play points, then yeah I’m pretty sure I’m not worried about how he’d do skating with Ponikarovsky, Grabovski, Kulemin, Stajan, or Blake, or whomever else they decide to play him with. Seriously… he was skating with Voros and Dubinsky most of the time, with Gomez and Naslund being next on the list… but MOST of the time it was with the first two.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
OH and one more thing
As much as I’d toss aside Stajan…
maybe bringing in Zherdev to play with him would sustain the gains of both? Zherdev is a winger. I’d replace Stempniak with him in a heartbeat, and then let Zherdev, Stajan, and Blake be our other top line alongside Grabovski, Kulemin, and Ponikarovsky.
Hagman can play on the 3rd line with Wallin and Tlusty or Bozak or something.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
It's not that I don't like Stajan
I just think it’s ridiculous that people think he’s an offensive player.
I’ve had a slow burn going ever since the idiocy of the promotion of him as a future Captain last off season by the Mainstream Media. Stupid Cox and Berger.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
It makes me angry that they did that because it suddenly became “Leafs fans are dumb. They think Stajan should be captain.”
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Aug 4, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Berger is a Leafs fan
Who thinks he’s better than the rest of them. He’s just cynical because he’s gone too long without cup wins.
Cox is an idiot that thinks all of Toronto cares about his opinion of Wimbeldon.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
The sad thing is
The more I post about how Stajan has hit his high water mark and we should trade him before his value drops, the more I see how angry it makes people that I’d consider it. Or they get really confused and think he’ll produce exactly how he did last season, which really makes no sense unless they can find a winger like Zherdev to replace what they lost in Antropov… which at this point they haven’t.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
So if Stajan produces at the same level as last year with the current roster how does your opinion change?
I’d assume Steve would change his opinion on Stajan having gathered more information.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
exactly
Evidence is all I’m basing my current opinion on. It’s not some sort of hatred for him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
On a side note, being American, I loved how John Kerry got labelled a flip flopper.
He received information from a credible source that said Iraq was harboring terrorists. He then voted to invade Iraq to get said terrorists. Later it was revealed that said report was completely fabricated. Kerry changed his vote and was labelled a hypocrite.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
meanwhile despite being wrong about all the facts W never changed his position and was admired for it.
A Nation of Masochists The waiting is the hardest part but the truculence helps.
Americans like convictions
… take that how you will.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Then I begin to buy the idea
That he’s capable of producing points on his own. I have yet to see any indication of that in his history, so that’d be a huge stretch at this point.
If it happens though, I’ll eat some of my earlier words. Don’t worry. I can admit when I’m wrong… for instance, Alex Steen really didn’t pan out the way I’d hoped. So much for his potential.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
- John Maynard Keynes
That’s a great axiom for everyone to keep in mind.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Aug 4, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
good luck with that
I’d put about 7 Leaf forwards ahead of him.
Ponikarovsky, Grabovski, Blake, Hagman, Kulemin, Bozak, and Tlusty all have more offensive potential. Even Stålberg is superior from a talent perspective, but he’s likely to end up in the AHL.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
When Zherdev was on the ice last year the Rangers were productive
to a tune of 3.14 GFON/60 minutes. That was a country mile ahead of all his teammates except Avery (?) at 3.07. Dubinsky was next at 2.48. This is all 5 on 5 play, btw.
The Leafs’ 08/09 leaders in this category were Poni, Stajan, Kaberle and White, in that order. Of course, with the exception of White that group was on for a hell of a lot of goals against as well.
by Grabovski's better than you think on Aug 4, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
playing Tlusty on the 3rd line develop him into what…?
or is the idea that he get third line minutes and PP time?
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I’m worried about Tlusty.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Yes.
Also to work on his defensive responsibility and shield him from having to engage top line players all the time from the opposition. I wouldn’t be looking at that as a top checking line.
If he can’t get enough shifts on the top 2 units though he’ll likely end up in the minors. All of this is ignoring injuries… which are bound to happen. When they do, he’ll get more of a shot.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
If you look at the Leafs last season
They played Stajan, Antropov, and Ponikarovsky as the top line, followed by Moore, Blake, and Stempniak, then you had Grabovski, Kulemin and Hagman.
I’m basically replacing Moore and Antropov with Zherdev and Wallin, and then if Stempniak is gone you can slot in Bozak or Tlusty.
It’s not that crazy!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
i worry about TlustyNSFW getting lost in the shuffle is all…
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He'll have to produce to get minutes
I think he’ll get a legit shot though. He’s put in more “time” than Bozak has, but I think that’s his main competition. Whoever produces more of the two of them will end up on the club. If Stajan can’t click with someone he might be dropped down a couple notches also.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
i can see Stajan going back to 3rd/4th line duty as the season progresses, if the kids progress well.
i wouldn’t have a problem with him playing that role either.
Bozak is a center isn’t he? I thought Tlusty was a LW…
Also, in regards to Tlusty, not sure how accurate, but I just gleaned his wikipedia entry. Says he’s 6’2" and 221lbs…
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Bozak is a Centre
Technically Tlusty also plays Centre, but he’s been playing the Wing in the AHL and NHL so far.
I’ve never bothered closely tracking Centre/Winger positioning for the sake of creating lines. As long as one of the 3 players can take faceoffs, then it doesn’t really matter. Antropov was listed as a Centre for years, but he played mainly on the wing. Stajan has played the wing before. Steen started as a centre but played a lot of wing… etc.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
the Leafs website
lists him as 6’ and 209 lbs. Not sure where Wikipedia is getting it’s info.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I just explored Wikipedia
And someone changed the stat on June 19th, 2009, without sourcing the change? I have a hard time believing he grew 2 inches over the summer.
I just changed it back.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
he’s on the cream and the clear!
:P
(i kid, i kid…)
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
someday Chemmy, someday…
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Aug 4, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
In this case
The NHL nor the Leafs seem to have heard of it. The only place it seems to be noted on les interwebs was the Wikipedia entry – which no longer notes it since I changed it back.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Of course
I’d put the 3 plumbers on my new list down as Wallin, Hagman, and Stajan… which leaves Ponikarovsky, Zherdev, Bozak, Tlusty, Blake, and Kulemin as my “top 6” from an offensive skill perspective.
Hagman, Wallin, and Stajan will still get top 6 minutes because of Penalty Killing and defensive responsibilities. You don’t put them all on the same line necessarily.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
woops... left 1 important guy off.
Grabovski.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
dude!!!1
Also, where does Johnny Mitchell fit in? He sure earned a spot last season and the coaching staff loves him. Centring 4th line perhaps?
Identical to Sergei Berezin in every way, only 1/10 his size.
From Russia with GLOVE SIDE!
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 5, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
for the love of God yes
The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW
Big problem.
If we sign this guy, we will be forced to trade someone to the Thrashers to get Antropov back, or have to live forever knowing we could have had the “Nikoline”.
I don’t think I could handle knowing how close we could have been to that. Therefore I say don’t sign him for the sake of people like me who know how awesome that would be.
by Shield on Aug 4, 2009 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Nothing
Except for a lot of money, and they’ll have to move at least one player to make the cap space work.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Yeah, I’m not sure I like where this is going. Zherdev is a talent, for sure, but at close to 5 mil and forcing us into a tight cap situation? No thanks.
Why not?
We’re already in a tight cap situation for THIS season… next year is another story.
As for him being worth close to $5 million, he wanted $4.75 million and was awarded $3.9 million. He’d probably take something around $4 to $4.25 million at this point.
Jiri Hudler was awarded $5.75 million for 2 seasons in the NHL, which works out to a cap hit of $2.875 million a year. The actual contract would pay him $2 mill in year one and $3.75 mill in year two.
He signed a $10 million two year deal with Dynamo Moscow. $5 million a season, tax free.
That means Zherdev would likely be able to make something like $6 million a year in Russia.
If he’d stay in North America and play in the NHL for under $5 million a year, I don’t think that’s a ridiculous thing to contemplate.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 4, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
It all comes down to your perspective of Zherdev as a player. He’s got a lot in terms of skill, but Tom Renney was at his limit with the guy and Renney coached Sean Avery willingly. Wilson is not a player’s coach, and there’s no room in this organization for players that won’t compete.
We’re also getting nailed from finding ourselves in situations where we have to deal players. I’m not a fan of the idea of getting rid of anybody on our roster for an overpaid second line floater. The Leafs don’t need a 5 million dollar second liner anyway, we need first line players and Z ain’t one.
The fraud says that the Leafs have no interest in Zheredev. I don’t know if that was an E4 or an E5 or maybe his new dog told him.
yeah, also the kabby to Columbus deal is dead, and since he was the only one who reported that it had any steam at all its pretty east to debunk for him
Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 5, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
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