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Around SBN: Is Adebayor About To Become A Full-Time Spur?

Per TSN, Pogge traded to the Ducks for a conditional late round draft pick that can improve based on his performance (ie. not likely). Deal to be completed Monday morning.

almost 3 years ago Buddy_christ_tiny leafer1984 147 comments 0 recs  | 

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Comments

Display:

Such a pointless move.

by Clawson on Aug 9, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions  

depends what the return is really.
I wanted to see Pogge do his thing in Toronto and fullfill his potential here as much as the next guy, but what matters the most here is that Burke is a man of his word.
Burke said he’d give Pogge a move if he wanted one, and he delivered. Not only that he moved him to one of the best goaltending based organizations in the NHL giving him every chance to reach his potential.
Sure Burke didnt owe anything and it may not have been the best move for the organization as a whole right now. But if this helps entice one good free agent to play for the Leafs, that management is straight shooting and true to their word it is a good thing

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I personally don’t think it’s pointless. From what I read it’s a conditional pick, which means if he turns into nothing it will probably be a 4th rounder or something… but if he turns into a good goalie we could possibly get higher…2nd maybe?

And quite frankly, none of us are goalie coaches, I firmly believe that Allaire came in, saw something he didn’t like, and told Burke that he probably wouldn’t amount to much. Plus I also believe this shows that Burke has a LOT of faith in Gustavsson.

by Huey2k2 on Aug 9, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly what Jared said.
Besides, Joey Mac is better to have around for a #3

The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW

by leafer1984 on Aug 9, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

indeed, i like the Joey Mac signing too. He is a solid backup and will be good for splitting the games with the Marlies with Remier.
this way if there is an injury on the Leaf goaltending front they dont have to throw a kid in the mix and either feed him to the wolves or take AHL starts away so he can sit on the pine.
this also gives the Leafs options if Gusstavsson cant hack the NHL or if The Vesa plays well enough to be traded out

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joey Mac is 29, it’s not like he is an over the hill goalie. If Pogge turns out to be incredible, shit happens. We don’t know if the same thing will happen here.
I liked the kid and wanted to keep him here, but this move is prolly for the best

The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW

by leafer1984 on Aug 9, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed, Pogge gets a fresh start out of the lime light in a great organization.
Burke gets another pick that will be comparable to Pogge no matter how he pans out (plays better better pick etc)
Remier gets his shot to prove himself as the Marlies starter
Unless Pogge becomes the next Brodeur or Roy, this is a winner for everyone

the coments on MLHS are getting worse and worse

I really cant see Kaberle being traded without a package being put together. Making our team younger and better is right Aussieleaf so why then does Burke trade Pogge for a 29 year old barely legible goalie named Joey MacDonald. Burke has his demons and one of them is to hang onto and bring in old pharts like Pat Quinn used to do. Remember Burke is the guy that kept Bobby Ryan buried in the minors. Ryan didnt get out until Burke had already committed emotionally to Toronto.

Burke will do the same in Toronto. He has already bottled up the NHL roster spots for old pharts like Primeau, Wallin, Orr, Blake etc when clearly we have guys that need to develop at the NHL level. Tlusty is going to be ruined next by Burke and Bozak is right behind him already. That has always been my fear with Burke.

When he first started as GM he said that he would never have allowed Schenn to play in the NHL and Schenn would just now be invited to play for the Marlies. Now he has a year of NHL experience a second one coming and will be rocking by next year when we need the playoff run.

i mean, really?

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

MLHS’ commenters also think a Brayden Schenn trade or a Dustin Brown acquisition is imminent which is hilarious.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Aug 9, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hilarious, yes, but the thought tugs at my heart cruelly.

Can it before I drive this truculence through your faceulence and put you in an ambulance.

by Brunswick Bruiser on Aug 9, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

well duh, Kabby and Stajan for Brown and Schenn is so do-able

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s exaggerating quite a bit, but the knock on Burke has always been that he’s terrible at managing his assets. So far we’ve given away two defensemen and our only goalie prospect from last year. And I do use the term “given away” intentionally.

by koopa kid on Aug 9, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

who has Burke “given away”?
a second rounder is more than apt payment for a dissinterested never been defenseman no matter his potential
Pogge was given up for a conditional pick that will be comparable to how well he plays, if he tanks it remains low and the Leafs got something for nothing, if he plays well the leafs get a decent pick for someone who probably wasnt ever going to crack the leafs line up

who is the other defenseman?

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

The guy’s exaggerating more than quite a bit.

First off, there were lots of great arguments for keeping Schenn in juniors last year. It worked out great which is why Burke has said as much but it’s not like it would have been the end of the world to give Schenn more time to develop outside of the NHL.

Bobby Ryan didn’t get a run in on the big Anaheim team because he was following almost the exact same development path as Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf and salary cap issues to a certain extent. It sure looks like it worked perfectly and he is about as far from ruined as possibly. Maybe that guy isn’t aware but Bobby Ryan almost won the Calder Trophy in about 3/4 of a season.

As for giving away defencemen, it’s clear that Kubina was a salary dump and Stralman had no future with the club. Burke’s signings have the defence covered long enough for the next wave of prospects to develop and claim a spot.

And Pogge? What was he going to get for Pogge? I’d love to hear what people think he should have brought back.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah Yes Kubina
which in the end helped sign Komi and Beauchemin

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah that doesn’t make any sense, and you’re going through some serious mental loops on that one.

First off, the difference in contract between Kubi and Komi is 500k, Beauchemin signed for 3.8 mil and we have over 2 mil in cap space before the bonus cushion. Ditching Kubina did not help us sign Beau.

Second, you’re already assuming that ditching the defenseman on the team that was a threat to score goals on the powerplay for 4.5 mil of Komisarek is actually a good thing, and that remains to be seen. I don’t mind Komi as a player, he’s a great addition, but to be worth that money he needs to show a rounded game, and he hasn’t done that in his career thus far.

by koopa kid on Aug 9, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

and = or, either way the Leafs saved salary

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Money’s part of it. Kubina’s ice-time being redistributed is another. Kubina was a threat because he was a big shot. With Kaberle putting pucks on a platter for Beauchemin or Komisarek I think that there is a good chance to replace a good portion of the missing PP goals.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

also some of it is changing the dynamic of the room, Kubby was a a big part of the old team, who knows how good of a leader he was.

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

It’s no coincidence that almost every player from the first three years after the lockout is gone.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Debate the particulars all you want, we’ve been dumping players who were assets for no return that actually benefits the club… in order to sign free agents. You don’t see the age problems that arise from this? Or the potential cap issues? Or the fact that once again we are trying to buy a team in a salary cap era? People talk about Stralman not having a role with the club, is it somehow positive that we have no roster space to allow young, cheap RFAs with upside to play some minutes?

The “wave” of prospects we’ve picked under Fletcher/Burke will be between 20 and 22 when Kaberle’s gone. Few are defensemen, even fewer project to be offensive talents (or even very good at all). Is it unreasonable to predict that may be a problem for us in the future?

I’ll put it this way, if, before the offseason started, I had told you that we would lose Kubina, Stralman, and Pogge for a 2nd rounder in 2012 and a bunch of garbage would you be happy about it? And if I told you that we would add 8.3 million dollars to a blueline that’s already paying 11 mil to Kaberle, Van Ryn, and Finger, eating up the cap space that was supposed to be our biggest asset without adding any scoring talent? Would you be rushing to defend Burke?

This all might turn out fine, but actually lauding these moves as positive is a huge stretch in my mind.

by koopa kid on Aug 9, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Thing is

Burke is creating a team with the formula that he has had experience with. It is also somewhat of a winning formula instead of the ramshackle band aid lack of direction crap we have been putting up with for quite some time. I agree that we should have gotten more for Kubina, but the market will pay what the market will pay.

Fact of the matter is Burke outlined his strategy for winning the day he was presented as the GM of the Leafs. He has stuck to that strategy and I hope(but we will never know for sure) that he has made the best deals possible in trying to implement this strategy.

We won’t know for at least 2-3 years(or more) if his plan works, but at least he has a plan. Internal to the organization, they see and know more about these players than the media or the fans will ever know. I have worked with some pretty big douchebags and everyone who worked with these people on a regular basis knew they were douchebags. There were others who knew them on a more superficial level that just loved them and thought they were great.

We are the ‘others’ in this equation. Not saying that Pogge, Kubina and Stralman are douchebags – far from it as Kubina always projected he was a good teammate and Stralman seemed to be pretty quiet. I just want to impress upon you that we only see the surface.

Burke has the responsibility of making the decisions on whether players will fit the team now and in the future. He obviously relies on his coaching, scouting and development staff to keep him appraised on each player’s potential.

This info as lead to him making some tough decisions about guys that have been ‘prospects’ for some time. At what point do you say “this guy is no longer a prospect.” You are either part of the solution or you are part of the problem and I think if you have identified guys that won’t be pieces of the future then it is your responsibility to move them – sooner rather than later.

You are entitled to your opinion on questioning how good or bad Burke has been in managing the assets of the Toronto Maple Leafs, everyone is. Instead of analyzing these trades at face value now, I tend to try and look at it over the long term. How can we judge Burke’s moves when we still have no idea how good the players we have will play, and how good the guys we moved will be.

Let time take its course and let history be the judge. You may very well be right, but I prefer not to make too many hasty judgments when we have still yet to see one full season of Burke’s changes.

Also, this is another transition year. I think next season we will know more on who the core of this team will be as I predict there will be another fairly significant player turnover.

Long response, but I was bored and have not posted one of these big ones in a while….

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 9, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think of it as much as lauding them as positive so much as waiting to see if there is a reason to be upset.

Stralman and Pogge only have value insofar as another team is willing to give something up to get them. In the case of Stralman we can say it’s a 2nd round pick in 2011. Pogge, for a litany of reasons, was worth less. This is just like Wellwood. He went through waivers twice without being claimed

Being upset at the return on them makes as much sense as being upset at Burke for only getting a 2nd for Moore and Antropov. That was the market.

You don’t see the age problems that arise from this? Or the potential cap issues? Or the fact that once again we are trying to buy a team in a salary cap era?

The players that were signed are not exactly over the hill. They can more than play out their contracts which gives the Leafs time to develop players. That’s something that they have not had the luxury of using before.

What potential cap issues are there right now? The Leafs have millions of free cap space for the foreseeable future.

I don’t think that the Leafs are trying to buy a team. Burke is trying to ice a team that will not only be competitive now but that allows him to work in young players while leaving plenty of room on the farm for the kids that have a future with the club. The wave of prospects might not be the greatest (they could still be :) ) but the pipeline isn’t shut off. There are still plenty of ways to pick more up.

People talk about Stralman not having a role with the club, is it somehow positive that we have no roster space to allow young, cheap RFAs with upside to play some minutes?

The team does have roster space for those players but they don’t have unlimited spots for those kinds of kids. Building a team isn’t just about throwing out 25 kids under 21 and then seeing how things pan out. Schenn and White are on the blueline and the rest of the guys will give Gunnarson, Mikus and Oreskovic time with the Marlies to develop their games.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thing is, there’s no room for White on the blueline depth chart right now, and that bugs me. And I don’t even like White, which bugs me even more. If Kaberle’s not going, and you consider that Van Ryn and Finger are too good to be sent down and are unmoveable because of their contracts, we have 6 untouchable players on the blueline.

Also, Oreskovic, Gunnarson, and Mikus? As of right now, expecting them to be NHLers full-time is overestimating their skill levels.

Right now, it’s bothering me that Burke caused another logjam like the one that caused us to move another young offensive dman for nothing last year. It bugs me that our roster of AHL players that have plugged into the NHL when necessary is being depleted with no return. It bothers me that we’re only 2 mil away from the cap and I can’t honestly say that Burke has made “good” moves this season other than signing Beauchemin.

by koopa kid on Aug 10, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the Monster. His only downside is that he already had a nickname, leaving the Barilkosphere unable to come up with a more awesome, ironically funny one.

by Shield on Aug 10, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

he’ll get his own special nickname eventually, Darth Gerber did become GRBRZRKR!!!1

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 10, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Added to the front page and edited. I’m sitting with SkinnyFish at the mall in the Apple store. He’s buying an iPhone because everyone agrees blackberries are for chumps.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Aug 9, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions  

they just paired up with U2…it is becoming self evident because only chumps like U2

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

CRACKBERRY FOR LIFE, FOOLS

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Jared:

My thoughts are with you during this difficult time.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ive moved on, who is the Leafs premier not living up to potential prospect now?

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s a good question…

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anton Stral, er nevermind.

Jeff Ware?

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I heard Jeff Ware’s a great car salesman now.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tim Staplet.. er never mind

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 9, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suggest latching on to Tlusty, Jared, until he becomes a sniping all-star.

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

woo! winnar!

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tlusty’s gonna be a bust, you heard it hear first.

by Jo4nny on Aug 9, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

NUH UH!

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Best be trollin’, yo.

by Mattblack on Aug 9, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

/aims lower

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats why I like shotguns

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I mean it’s not like Apple has ever done anything like that

Follow your Hunger

by Hungry Leafs Fan on Aug 9, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Insert OH SNAP gif here.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

ipod = music, so it makes sense
Blackberry = buisness so its irritating

also i wouldnt get an iphone because they are for hippies

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I felt the same, though my fiance has one so I still get the advantages it offers sometimes.

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can buy a minner SD card and put music on your Berry. It’s ill.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

i can do that with my POS keybo, doesnt mean there should be a U2 version of it

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

EVERY GENERATION GETS A CHANCE TO SAVE THE WORLD

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

U2 is the worst mainstream band with some weird air of credulity.

Go Houston Rockets!

by Duster on Aug 9, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with all you young punks is that you weren’t around when Joshua Tree was released. It was, and still is, one of the all-time great albums. Since then, they’ve been up and down (Beautiful Day being one of the major ups) , but the live show is still one of the best in the business.

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Aug 9, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was around for Joshua tree, that tree is where my hate took root!

see what I did there?

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was also around for Joshua Tree, and that album sucks dick.

see what I did there.

Go Houston Rockets!

by Duster on Aug 9, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I rest my case.

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Aug 9, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with all you young punks is that you weren’t around when Joshua Tree was released. It was, and still is, one of the all-time great albums.

This.

Actually, I’ve been there since October. But U2 just got awesome-r with the Joshua Tree.

jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog

"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)

by jrwendelman on Aug 9, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hell yes.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 9, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

My thoughts

I’m ok with this trade for the most part, as long as Allaire gave his opinion to Burke like Huey says above. If not, it seems pointless to hire such a great goaltending coach and not give him a chance with your former #1 prospect. So as long as Allaire thinks he’s a lost cause, then this deal is good for Pogge, and good for the organization.

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Allaire spending time on Pogge is a waste of his time. Toskala and Gustavsson are our guys; they’re the guys Allaire needs to be with.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

But at the same time, I see where you’re coming from. I wanted the Leafs to keep Wellwood so Wilson could crack the whip on him.

It wouldn’t have hurt for Allaire to see what the deal was.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d rather Allaire have spent more time with Pogge and the Monster rather than Vesa, if only because if Pogge and/or the Monster had developed into a #1 goalie than the Vesa is no longer needed and we save money at the goaltending position.

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree. We have all seen that Vesa can be the number one guy, I would like Allaire to help get him back there and stay there.

Gustavsson COULD be a number one guy, let Allaire work with Toskala AND Gustavsson, create some competition, make them fight to be the number 1’s.

We could have a very good situation in goal this year.

by Huey2k2 on Aug 9, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

The Vesa will rise once again.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

We could have a very good situation in goal this year.

Agreed, but what happens if both goalies play amazing this year, and the Vesa becomes a UFA (and the Monster will already be RFA)? The Vesa already makes $4 mil, if he plays great this year he’ll likely want a raise, do you give it to him, or do you go with the cheaper and younger Monster (if he shows he’s capable). To me, you go with the Monster, which means Allaire’s work will be gone, when I’d rather him have spent it on a prospect who may or may not have been around longer than one year.

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

If both goalies play amazing then you have one year with what are essentially two starting goaltenders.

I am not sure how this is a bad thing?

by Huey2k2 on Aug 9, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not a bad thing, but I would have just rather have Allaire deal with the two younger goalies, in the hopes that after this year, when Vesa is (probably) gone, you have your #1 goalie in the Monster, and your choice of two younger prospect goalies (Riemer and Pogge) who could also step in.

I guess for me it makes more sense working with the younger, long term goalies than a goalie I don’t expect to play for us next year.

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re just assuming Vesa is gone. That’s certainly not the case. We paid a helluva lot for him. Let’s keep him and mould him into a Stanley Cup goalie.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im pretty sure the Vesa is here all year unless Gusstavsson turns into the next Hiller/Thomas/Goalie from Phoenix whos name I cant recall at this time.
If that is the case the Monster will earn himself a few year contract for a few million and Burke will get as much as he can for The Vesa at the deadline (assuming there is a market for a UFA goalie)

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, let’s just say I don’t see the circumstances for Vesa to stay. Will he take a paycut to stay? Cause so far he’s not a $4mil goalie. If the Monster proves to be the real deal, I’d rather mold him than the Vesa.

If the Vesa plays well, like Jared says trade him at the deadline if possible. If he doesn’t, let him walk. If he wants to resign for less than the $4, then we can talk.

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

if the vesas play remains at the level its been, good but not contender status, then he wont fetch anything of value at the deadline and trading him would be pointless. Burke will offer him a contract comparable to his play unless he has something else planned goaltending wise.
Also, if both goalies play well and someone offers Burke a sweet ass package for the Monster, I wouldnt be surprised to see Burkie jump all over it

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, we DO have a lot of cap flexibility next year, and if we’re going to be gunning for the Cup soon, you simply have to spend what you need to to get top-tier goal-tending.

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Aug 9, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

if both goalies are amazing, i am sure The Vesa will be moved at the deadline, and if the monster shows he can play really well in the NHL i wouldnt be surprised if he was signed to an extension at the soonest date

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

But then the organization would have to sign another one, or move Reimer up, and our whole goal-tending depth up one level.

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Aug 9, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats why the Joey Mac signing makes sense, he moves up as a backup and Remier gets the undisputed marlies job and one of the other young tenders gets a slot on the Marlies

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

But who is our Leaf’s backup then?

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Aug 9, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

currently? its a platoon
if vesa goes as a trade or Monster cant hack the NHL then Joey Mac is the Leafs back yo

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

And not to start a riot or anything

But I have yet to see Vesa be the #1 guy for longer than a few stretch of games. He has never been a #1 guy for a full season yet.

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

if both play well its gonna be a 1a/1b platoon, which will be benificial to both goalies as the vesa plays better like that and it will help the monster adjust to the game without taking on too much of a work load

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vesa was a #1 goalie in his first year with the Leafs.

33 wins, and a .904 save % on a team that allowed 260 goals, 3rd worst in the Eastern Conference.

If he was any worse, we’d have had a lottery pick.

DOH!!!!1

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

its all boyd devereauxs fault

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I meant a #1 in more than name only. His numbers were average, though I agree we were a horrible defensive team.

To me, he hasn’t done anything for any long stretch of time to show he’s going to be an above average goalie, which is obviously what is needed on a winning team.

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hopefully this will be the year.

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 9, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would certainly be nice. If all goes well, playoffs are definitely a possibility. And having that reward while still developing the young’uns makes me all tingly inside.

by lordosis on Aug 9, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

if the stars align it could very well happen
it also depends on who goes.

I dont see Burkie burying an NHL defenseman in the minors

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, he’ll move one before he does it. But midseason, if one of them sucks, don’t be surprised if he tries to

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
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by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 9, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh yeah, if its due to play and attitude he wont hesitate to drop one to the AHL.

if the NHL season started tomarrow i wouldnt be surprised to see Frogren on the Marlies ebcause he is the bottom of the food chain.
I cant really see him putting white on wing unless Tlusty has a shitty camp and that still leaves the Leafs with an extra D man
One has to be moved

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does this mean Pogge is set to star in the remake of the Mighty Ducks movies?

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 9, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions  

id watch that

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it would be mandatory if the world of the future.

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 9, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

my two cents

It’s kinda obvious that Gustavsson is the Leafs goaltending future. Pogge has the talent to possibly be a good NHL goalie, however on the Leafs depth chart, there wasn’t going to be much of a chance for him to play in an NHL situation. Moves like this make guys want to play for Burke, which also means the Leafs. Long story short: great move for all involved.

"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...

by blurr1974 on Aug 9, 2009 1:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

the deal makes sense all around, there really are no holes in it

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m sure some fool in the MSM is brushing the dust off their piece on how Toronto ruins its prospects and how Pogge is a future Vezina trophy recipient

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 9, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

the next Dominic Hasek has surly slipped through our fingers

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure I agree. The NHL depth chart for this year may be locked, but If he could out in a decent year in the AHL the Leafs would likely need at least a backup in 2010-11 since Toskala won’t be back.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Aug 9, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think they are signing Joey MacDonald from the Isles to fill that role.

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 9, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm disappointed

I’m okay with Pogge getting another shot elsewhere. Burkie promised him he’d do that, but why to a team whose games are blacked out where I live?

by thisisrobster on Aug 9, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Pogge already taken off the prospect list at hockey futures

But now vorbiev is now the Leafs top prospect, yeah…..

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

ha! epic

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 9, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Woooooo

FRONT PAGE!

The Leafs may not win everygame, but they will beat the shit out of you
Truculence FTW

by leafer1984 on Aug 9, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Happy enough from our organisational point of view, not so sure what’s in it for Pogge though – aside from a change of scenery. Or does he have a better chance in Anaheim than I give him?

by Mattblack on Aug 9, 2009 1:55 PM EDT reply actions  

he gets a fresh start, with limited pressure or expectations. Doesn’t mean he will surplant Hiller anytime soon though

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 9, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention a lovely house in Watts Toluca Lake. Sold!

by Mattblack on Aug 9, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

everything is going as planned

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 9, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Peace out, ciabatta.

As per new community rules; all signature tags on PPP must contain the word "truculent".

(843): the red head has a bf
(1-843): just because there's a goalie doesn't mean u can't score

by Wrap Around Curl on Aug 9, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

i'm looking forward to the Cup Final in 2011

When the two goalies will now assuredly be Pogge and Rask, with the Bruins taking a grueling 7 game series against the Ducks in double OT.

Kill me now.

by pevans on Aug 9, 2009 3:01 PM EDT reply actions  

YESSSSSSSSS

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I WILL BE THERE

Wait, I think Thomas will still be signed then, but maybe if he gets hurt or something.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 9, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

you want to lose in the cup finals? what are you a sens fan?>

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

“the Bruins taking a grueling 7 game series”

Generally, “Taking” a series means winning it.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 9, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah, i read it as the ducks taking it in double OT

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

FUCK THAT NOISE

AND THE DUCKS

ALL OF THEM

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 9, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

Perfect response.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 9, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Loathe as I am to agree with CH on anything, hell yes. Screw ’dem Ducks.

by Mattblack on Aug 9, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a Wild fan, I can never like the Ducks.

Ever.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 9, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a hockey fan, I can’t cheer for a team named after a Disney movie.

by Jo4nny on Aug 9, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Although the Winnipeg Aladdins has a nice ring to it.

by Jo4nny on Aug 9, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

unless they are whomping on the Sens

or Habs

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m laughing at the concept of Sens players as groundhogs.

Whomp! Whomp!

"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09

by kidkawartha on Aug 9, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

..or turns 80 years old.

Unless Thomas is like the Benjamin Button of hockey.

by Jo4nny on Aug 9, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s not even half as old as Chelios, come on now.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 9, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like this move. Pogge wanted out of Toronto and Anaheim needs a backup after this season. Pogge’ll settle into a nice career of 20 NHL games a year and the Leafs get another draft pick.

Now Reimer, who won the ECHL title last year, is the Leafs’ top goaltending prospect and Joey Mac cools his heels on the farm and becomes the backup next year.

Easy peasy.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions  

also Joey Macs numbers werent abysmal last year given where he was playing

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

He’s not ever going to be the starter. He could be the next Scott Clemmensen…

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

if that. maybe a JS Aubin!

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 9, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joey Mac’s numbers are better than Toskala’s on a worse defensive team. Plus now we can chant Jo-ey Jo-ey from the cheap seats like at Nassau.

by Polecon on Aug 9, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh god…so many people are “we should have gotten more for him!”

dont they realize that Burke got the maximum return?

“Sorry Bob, I dont want Subban for Pogge, Anahiem offered me a conditional 4th round pick!”

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

What planet do they live on? This is a guy that had an .844sv% last year and has only shown brief flashes of potential in the AHL. What more were the Leafs going to get for him?

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

no idea, i mean im guilty of overvaluing Leaf players myself, but there is a limit

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cody Hodgson? And a 2nd? And a scaletrix with a trampoline in the middle?

by Mattblack on Aug 9, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

door #3! door #3!!!1

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 9, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

We all do it with certain players (Antropov) but in reality (Antropov) who can look at Justin Pogge and suggest that Burke got demonstrably less than he should have.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed, and honestly, I cant look back at any of the Burke moves and find one that doesnt make absolute sense in the long run

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will concede that at the very least the deals need to be given some time before we can positively label them terrible.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will there be a post to let us know when that time has elapsed?

by Mattblack on Aug 9, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

Just kidding. The local media will let us know when it’s time.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Aug 9, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

daily

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

INWIM

is the new BCWW

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 9, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Novermber when it wow wow

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

INWIM

is the new BCWW

I wish we had this in November. You know; when it mattered.

jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog

"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)

by jrwendelman on Aug 9, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed, they could flip around and become the worst deals in the history (straleman / pogge realize potential win cups, Kubina becomes a Norris winner etc) or they could turn out to be amazing deals (all traded players flop and that conditional pick turns into the Leafs version of Gretzkey)
as far as current information goes, they are all good deals

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or the 4th gets taken away from us next time Burke totally hoses the cap system and buys picks. Think of how open season the yotes will be come deadline time

by Johnny Thunder on Aug 9, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

This has been quite a ride for Justin Pogge and the Leafs. From being drafted by the Leafs in the 3rd Round as a raw prospect to seeing his stats improve immensely with a powerhouse Calgary Hitmen team then a WJC gold medal. Now traded for a conditional draft pick after nearly losing Pogge as a free agent.

I don’t know what kind of pressure JFJ was in to keep Pogge over Rask due to the WJC performance, but it’s pretty abundantly clear that he and Leafs erred very much in their goalie developmental system, let alone picking the right goalie. If a good thing comes out of this situation, it’s that the Leafs look like they finally figured out how important player development runs accordance with good drafting (which I would argue the Leafs have one of the better scouting staffs in the NHL). Pogge was the final player that represented the failure of the old regime and there was little chance for him to redeem himself with the Leafs.

Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell

by bkblades on Aug 9, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Damn straight. This doesn’t seem like a huge loss in my mind. If Gustavsson works out, no problem. Pogge was a sieve.

Go Houston Rockets!

by Duster on Aug 9, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

dammit

now who will Bootlegger use in their ads???

"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero

by Karina on Aug 9, 2009 8:51 PM EDT reply actions  

grabbo, comming soon Pineapple cut jeans

Relying on Nonsense and Cheap Gimmicks Since 2006

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 9, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would have liked Pogge to stay with the Marlies another year and got some time to work with Allaire to see if he could have really improved. But I can’t be too upset with this move. Obviously the Leafs see some promise in Reimer, so he’ll get to play a lot this year with the Marlies to see what he’s got. We should be solid, hopefully, with Vesa and Monster with the big club this year. Next year should be interesting with Vesa a UFA and Monster an RFA, so Burke will have his hands full then at the goalie position.

Hopefully the draft pick will work out to our advantage.

I hope Pogge does well with the Ducks… just not too well, of course.

Being a Leaf fan here requires one to be sufficiently lubricated... and truculent!

by stucky on Aug 9, 2009 9:15 PM EDT reply actions  

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