Toronto Maple Leafs Acquire Phil Kessel (Update)
by PPP on Sep 18, 2009 7:28 PM EDT
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PrintDarren Dreger of TSN is reporting that Brian Burke, the truculent GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs, has acquired Phil Kessel from the Boston Bruins. Damien Cox has just reported that it's a 5 year deal for $27M and the Bruins will receive two first round picks and a second round pick.
The process of completing the long-rumoured deal began to accelerate once the Maple Leafs re-acquired their 2nd round pick in 2010 in a trade with the Chicago Blackhawks. The rumours abounded from both the traditional media and the blogerati as everyone tried to be the first to guess what would happen. In the end, the pot was sweetened from a 3rd round pick to a second first rounder.
One of the things that was debated here at length was why the Leafs were not just giving Kessel an offer sheet. I think that there are a few reasons:
- The Bruins publicly announced that they were going to match any offer sheet made.
- Kessel's injury meant that he could be placed on Long-Term Injury Reserve by the Bruins once the offer sheet was made. This gave Chiarelli a bit more leeway as long as the deal came before October 1st when the season begins. If it came after then he couldn't put Kessel on LTIR before going over the cap.
- The Predators' interest meant that there was a team that could conceivably offer Kessel and the Bruins more.
At the end of the day, Burke didn't have as much leverage as we had hoped and Burke has identified Phil Kessel as an elite offensive talent something that the Leafs have lacked since Mats Sundin was in his prime. Even then, Mats was not really among the league's best scorers and Phil Kessel definitely has that potential. There has already been and will continue to be a lot of hand wringing over the loss of the Leafs' next two first rounders. David Johnson has highlighted an argument that Howard Berger and Bob McCown have already made:
Trading two first rounders is the equivalent of send Luke Schenn and Nazem Kadri to the Bruins for Phil Kessel
This is such a simplistic and borderline ridiculous argument that I can't believe that they can make it with a straight face. Actually, I can but it still shocks me. David did a good job of highlight the reply to that argument. You cannot begin to make those comparisons without taking into account the quality of the draft in the next two seasons or the Leafs' eventual draft position. If the best they could do with two of their worst teams in the last 16 years was 7th worst how are we supposed to believe that next year they'll be the worst team in the league?
Flashback to Daoust's draft masterpiece and you can begin to see what kind of players were drafted where you think that the Leafs will end up. The key thing to me is that Burke must be making this deal with the thought that not only are the Leafs going to make the playoffs this year but will improve in the next. He must also believe that he can partially replenish the picks. The Leafs have a lot of cap space going forward and a number of players in contract years that could be moved.
That is not to say that this deal is not a gamble. Daoust may have shown that some aspects of the draft are definitely a crap shoot but first rounders are important picks. SkinnyFish showed that 55% of NHLers were selected in the first three rounds so the Leafs have gambled that Kessel will be better than those two players. But it's not just NHLers that are drafted early, it's impact NHLers. The Falconer looked at last year's playoff teams and found that 44% of the goalies, 74% of first line forwards, and 33% of top pairing defencemen were drafted in the first round.
The other criticism will be that the Leafs are rebuilding and therefore cannot trade a single draft pick. Already Steve Simmons has invoked the name of Owen Nolan. The massive difference would be that Phil Kessel is 21 years old. Yes, he is coming off of a pretty serious surgery but he has already returned from testicular cancer. This kid is a fighter. Burke's prowess in signing college free agents will hopefully take some of the sting out of losing the picks but at the end of the day the Leafs acquired a 21 year old 36 goal scorer that, if he was worth acquiring later on in his career, would likely not have hit the open market again. GMs are paid to take calculated risks and I trust that Burke looked at what he had in camp, where he thought the team was going, and the odds of landing a player of Kessel's quality via other routes and determined that this deal had to be made right now. Just think of the two first rounders as Jeff Ware and Luca Cereda and smile. Until they turn out to be Schenn and Kadri of course.
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Yikes, damn it. Gonna cost a lot. Fuck Kessel, selfish pos. 2 first rounds and a second I heard? BRUTAL!
Not the end of the world
Not about him being selfish. About leverage. Burke didn’t have as much as we thought.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Anything more than a 1st and 2nd rounder is robbery. Not for a one year wonder, a selfish one year wonder.
i dont know so much about being selfish, but no matter what, he is instanlty the best offensive player on the leafs
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Krejci scored the same amount of goals, yet Kessel wanted to be paid more, handicapping his GM. Anyone who holds out is selfish really. :)
Kessel scored the same while playing less
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Chiarellie dealt with Krejci first too :S
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I choose to believe this is because of the injury situation.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re not paying for past performance. You’re paying for future potential/performance.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
you also just mortgaged your future in a rebuilding process by having to pay him 4-5 million dollars. If he keeps it up sure, but he was playing with Savard and a good Boston team.
What was that? I couldn’t hear you over all the parade-planning I’m doing.
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
His salary is only a big deal if he doesn’t perform. The Leafs have tonnes of cap space available going forward.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Why do we keep hearing this kid is a one year wonder? Isn’t he 21 years old? Wasn’t he a highly touted prospect?
Dedicated to the gradual progression into an era in which Leaf fans could possibly maybe consider perhaps Toronto could might win the Stanley Cup...possibly...mayhap.
by palmateerlover on Sep 18, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
5th over all in a deep ass draft
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep hearing people say…he was good last year, but the year before not so good. Wasn’t he 19 the year before?
Dedicated to the gradual progression into an era in which Leaf fans could possibly maybe consider perhaps Toronto could might win the Stanley Cup...possibly...mayhap.
by palmateerlover on Sep 18, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, and he had cancer
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that all?
Dedicated to the gradual progression into an era in which Leaf fans could possibly maybe consider perhaps Toronto could might win the Stanley Cup...possibly...mayhap.
by palmateerlover on Sep 18, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
well he did have mono too
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
That was his 36-goal season.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Thirty-six goals with mono?
Is it wrong to hope he gets herpes and 50 goals this year?
by yrmom on Sep 18, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Have you seen him?
How’s he going to get herpes?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude
He’s a Leaf in Toronto. If he only gets herpes he’ll be ahead of the game.
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You’re saying a lot for the ladies of Toronto there, chief.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He's right though
ladies in this city LOVE the Leafs.
Even Kubina got laid.
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
by Archimedies on Sep 18, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what do you mean, even Kubina???
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 19, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
For the kind of ladies that throw themselves at hockey players? I think you’d agree that the same class of girl goes after Red Sox in Boston or Patriots.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Um, uh, er….yeah. You’re absolutely right. And probably at Kessel here, too. Although….
MONO?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
he must’ve made out with Steve Mason. Or one of the, like, 5 other NHLers who got mono last season (seriously, there ere a ton of them)
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 19, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
not fair
I have my reservations about this, but calling him a one-year wonder is not fair. He scored 11 goals, then 19, then 36 in a season and he’s still only 21 years old! If anything, that demonstrates an increasing trend. I’m not penciling him in for 50 a year just yet, but it’s far from an anomaly.
I’m nervous about those two 1sts as well, but this wasn’t a fleecing by anyone. Yet.
At this point, it all hinges on what Kessel does on the ice, and what those 1sts turn into. We wont get an answer to the latter for 3-4 years yet. but we get an inkling about the former in as little as a few months.
Like PPP said, if it’s a consistent 40-goal scorer for Cereda and Ware, we win. If it’s a 20-goal scorer for Schenn and Kadri, we lose.
Will he pass the physical?
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 7:30 PM EDT reply actions
That’s the $5-million question. Personality questions aside (and I don’t necessarily buy those either) his health is what really troubles me. Way, way too many medical issues in his young life so far.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Sep 18, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
5.4 million question.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
SO MUCH GOING ON RIGHT NOW
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 7:30 PM EDT reply actions
WOOO
now, tell me exactly what it’s for?
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 7:31 PM EDT reply actions
(Fetal position, rocking)
Not two first rounders… Not two first rounders… Not two first rounders…
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by Down Goes Brown on Sep 18, 2009 7:32 PM EDT reply actions
not stalberg, not stalberg, not stalberg
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s two firsts I bet and it’s not a disaster…yet.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
He’ll definitely ask for at least some version of it.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I CAN'T WAIT
TO MAKE A PHIL KESSEL IN A SUIT POST!!!
WOOOOOO!
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
too funny
leave it to us Leaf fans:
Our team just traded for a 21 year old who scored 36 goals last season, and it might be a bad idea…
no offense, i get the fear/hate/dislike for this trade, i really do.
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 7:36 PM EDT reply actions
I agree fully
Nobody on this team aside from Jason Blake has ever come close to that total, and we just got a TWENTY ONE year old who’s done it.
I’m pleased as punch.
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
Ya, at least it’s picks for youth. If he slumps he has time to rebound before the Leafs will truly be contenders.
I’m dying to find out what the deal was though… AND what Burke manages to sign him at.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
if it's long term
i’m hoping it’s front loaded…
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I would think that’d be unlikely for a 21-year-old.
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
why not?
Burke- hey 21 year old Phil Kessel, how would you like to make $12M in one year?
Phill – uhhhh, sign where?
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unless it’s insanely long (DiPietro territory), he’ll still likely be playing at a high level when it runs out. I don’t see what his incentive would be to agree in advance to earn less money when he could still reasonably expect to be an elite player.
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
$12 million dollars....
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
This is such a high risk/high reward situation…. And we won’t even see the guy on the ice until what, December?
I’ll have an ulcer by then.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
think about it
he comes in December, fresh by January and in full swing by feb/mar for the PLAYOFFS!!!1 push
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
And he’ll even get to ease in nicely by not having to play yet when the games still matter!
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!1
My fears have been sated.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
STALBERG IS IN THE LINEUP!!!!
Like DGB said… not 2 first rounders…
Resident Cook and IT Superman
Truculence FTW
Holy Truculence! I don’t even care if a top prospect not named kadri or Schenn are gone. if Stalberg and a 2nd gets it done, thats a good deal imo
Ditto. I’m including Bozak on the list of untouchables (I’m sorry, but from what I’ve seen, the kid’s impressed me – a lot).
by Blue and White Expat on Sep 18, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think it’d be one of our free agent signings…. Stalberg, Tlusty… one of them.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed, i doubt hansen and bozak could have been on the table for the optics of it all
by Johnny Thunder on Sep 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Wondering who could be the defenseman involved if any at all? Frogren is the only one I could think of that isn’t playing tonight.
-Graham-
by CanadianMaple09 on Sep 18, 2009 7:46 PM EDT reply actions
but both of them present cap problems…
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather throw in a defenceman than the second.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Sep 18, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
God damn it...
…Dreger GIVE ME MORE INFORMATION. I’m sick of refreshing his twitter.
http://beyondbeleaf.blogspot.com/
Want some info on Juraj- any thoughts?
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
Never heard of him before tonight. :S
-Graham-
by CanadianMaple09 on Sep 18, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling
nothing will be announced until after the game.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT reply actions
yeah, if a kid playing in it is gone it might be bad if he heard
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s true – to be equally fair, you’d think they’d tell the guy before the game, wouldn’t you?
by Blue and White Expat on Sep 18, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
usually they’re healthy scratches, which is what has me wondering…
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
that I have absolutely no idea who could be going, because I’d say that White and Tlusty or Stalberg plus a first makes the most sense.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
well its still not done, Kessel may suddenly want 7 mill a year and Burke says nay then the deal is nixed
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is the Nashville deal that almost happened two hours ago. But Kessel didn’t wanna play in Nashville, this was almost a done deal.
blum and radulov and 1st rounder
radulov has no value because he’s not gonna come back to the NHL
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard otherwise.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember hearing something about that as well, but he’s still under contract in the KHL for at least one more season right? I wouldn’t trust that kid enough to expect him to stick with a decision and actually come back.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
He has to stay over there this year. He can come back next year.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
and next year he is still on his entrance deal, so he would solve cap problems for the Bruins.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That deal still applies? I’m just unsure how they decided that would work when he left sans any sort of agreement between the two leagues.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
yah, which is part of the problem for him coming back… he will take a big pay cut for one year.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
news to me
but i guess the bruins would be a good team to come back to, they are contenders
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
blum
is a good defenseman.
Radulov apparently has interest in coming back to the NHL…
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a pretty huge deal in itself. That’s one established NHL-calibre top 6 offensive talent that would have been going back to Boston.
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I wanted this one to happen.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
DamoSpinLeafs get Kessel, 5 yrs, $27 million for two firsts and a second
Resident Cook and IT Superman
Truculence FTW
over 5 a year? er….
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a deal I can live with.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I’m not sure.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
gunnarsson was dead on his feet there
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:07 PM EDT reply actions
Damien Cox reports Leafs get Kessel, 5 yrs, $27 million for two firsts and a second
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
me either….
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i
im surprised he didnt say he signed for 19.67 mill over 4.2 years
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Cox has been covering the Leafs for 25 years and is the Senior Hockey guy at one of Canada’s pre-eminent papers. We may not like his tone, but the guy has sources and a reputation to protect.
Based on those two facts, I’d take this to the bank.
Remember, he’s also the guy that broke the Kubina deal.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
by mf37 on Sep 18, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, Cox’s facts are usually very reliable. It’s his complete inability to consider them in any sensible hockey context that makes him suck.
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo
He’s a jerk but he knows everyone
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I sure fucking hope not. I HATE YOU DAMIEN.
http://beyondbeleaf.blogspot.com/
by BeyondBeleaf on Sep 18, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Was just thinking, Burke should have offered Kessel an offer sheet, to avoid both first rounders, at the risk of Bruins matching, and putting them way over the cap. Then they would have troubled resigning, Lucic, Stuart, Rask and Wheeler next year.
Compensation.
$3,923,437 – $5,231,249
1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick
$5,231,249 – $6,539,062
Two 1st’s, one 2nd, one 3rd round pic
Chiarellia said he’d match, Burke must have believed him.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
yaeh
if you want the player, get the player.
Don’t play games.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be a dickish move...
and Burke seems to not want to be a dick like Lowe.
by theothervatican on Sep 18, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly...
Contracts and numbers aside, we just got a guy capable of scoring 40 goals. We didn’t have that yesterday.
I am happy.
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
I think you could argue that Blake didn’t really have the potential to hit 40g again. It was his ceiling.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
we just got a guy capable of scoring 40 goals. We didn’t have that yesterday
Or a guy who, coming off serious off-season shoulder surgery, regresses in his shooting % and puts up 25 for $5.4M/year.
I don’t like this deal.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
I guess we'll see
There’s no way of knowing anything until he’s on the ice.
For the time being, I’m optimistic about have a talented young scorer and legit top-6 forward.
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
and if hes healthy hes a lock to score 30 with jamal mayers as his center
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
If we're fantasizing
My fantasy is that Jamal Mayers doesn’t play for the Leafs anymore
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
ok, then with rickard the red as his center
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
coming off serious off-season shoulder surgery
This is what concerns me the most. I can’t criticize the Leafs trading for an established goalscorer (well, sort of), but I’m under the impression that Kessel tore up him labrum, rather than just a frayed one. And that’s because of a torn rotator cuff. This seems like a huge risk. Or am I being a worry wart?
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
I don’t think so, but I appear to be among the minority in not really liking this deal. He had the surgery in May (possibly June) and he’s unlikely to play until November/December.
Sounds serious to me.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
I think most people see the risks:
- Picks panning out
- Kessel’s shooting percentage being an outlier
- Shoulder surgery affecting his shot
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I think most people see the risks:
- Picks panning out
- Kessel’s shooting percentage being an outlier
- Shoulder surgery affecting his shot
You forgot massive cap hit, depleted prospect reserves and the opportunity cost of moving the picks and losing cap space, but otherwise I think you’ve covered it off.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
lol
The cap hit could be massive.
But yeah, those are two others.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Every move entails risk, including standing pat. It seems odd to look at it this way but by passing up Kessel the Leafs risk losing a 40 goal scorer and ending up with players who don’t really help the team.
by Mirinov's Nose on Sep 18, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
No
It’s definitely a consideration but without a medical degree I can just hope that the rotator cuff doesn’t matter as much for a hockey player as a pitcher.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Rotator cuff injury by itself? No, not a big deal. But a torn rotator cuff and some sort of labrum damage, whether it be minor or serious, are two procedures in the same shoulder. If it’s expected that pitchers usually don’t come back the same after the same procedure, I’m not sure how to take it with other athletes even in hockey. Maybe there isn’t the repeated wind-ups, but a lot of shoulder strength is still required. I think I’m depressing myself with this kind of talk.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
As if MF37 wasn’t bad enough bkblades MD is explaining injuries that I referred to as “that shoulder thing”.
Stupid smart people…
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
also STALBERG on the other wing
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
That will be a truly dangerous line, I think.
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
he can do both, he dished very well with Tavares
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
see, Kessel
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Since when is Kessel a dangler? 36 goals 24 assists seems more like a sniper to me
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
Kadri
supposed to turn out like Savard.
Set up man right there.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
kadri will be very able to set people up
there are reasons he is often compared to savard
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Not too concerned
About the lack of production from line pairing we’ve got drawn up that involves an 18-year old and a 21-year old, neither of which have played an actual NHL regular game for the Leafs yet.
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
If anyone’s wondering what Cox’s column will look like tomorrow, here’s a preview from yesterday:
Damien here again. . .re Down Goes Brown. . .do I think it’s too much? I’ve been mulling that one over, and I guess my answer is that its a significant risk that could work out.
In the best case scenario, the Leafs get Kessel, who plays and remains healthy. That improves the team to say, oh, 18th overall, which is the 13th pick in the 2010 draft. Then, lets say the Leafs move up to 14th overall and make the playoffs the following year. So that pick becomes the 17th pick overall. So you get a healthy 21-year-old sniper for the 13th pick in ‘09 and the 17th pick in 2010, plus a second rounder. I guess I’d made that deal.
But what if Kessel, who has been injured or ill a fair bit in his young career, can’t stay healthy. Or lets say the Leafs goaltending goes south (again) and the team finishes 22nd overall this season, or worse. And then it happens again the following season.
Then you’re looking at two possible lottery picks for an unhealthy Kessel.
That’s not a great deal.
So is two firsts and a second too much? Not necessarily, particularly for a 21-year-old player, but there are red flags all over this deal. Never up never in, I guess, so Burke wants to go for it.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Sep 18, 2009 8:19 PM EDT reply actions
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Things have changed a lot since he wrote that, namely a definite outcome.
I"m looking forward to Berger’s crap.
by Johnny Thunder on Sep 18, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
There are ifs that make this deal a steal and ifs that make it an epic bust.
Let’s cross our fingers.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
either way, it will be spectacular in some fashion
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I just hope to God
The Leafs didn’t give away too much for Kessel. He’s good and young, but he’s not the greatest out there.
but
he also has a lot more potential yet to fulfill….
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
True
Though there is a limit to how much you want to give up to get a guy with potential. I like Kessel, but I don’t want the Leafs to give up too much for him.
yeah
two firsts sounds like too much, but…. we’ll see.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i dont like the position this puts boston in next year, they have 2 extra firsts to play with, and may be able to move up and pick one of the top trhee
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
meh
there’s what, two players considered locks to go high, with a whole lot of question marks?
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
three last i counted, but there is a whole season to go tween then and now
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Shouldn’t be a consideration.
No team is trading out of the top 3 for a mid-draft pick (hopefully) and an even higher one.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Doubt it. It would have been reported by now.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Updated
Please re-tweet it if you are on Twitter with a note :)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
$5.4m/year is a preposterous salary for a single 36 goal season.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
but
not for potential of 5 years of that to come….
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
shush you
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I again bring up Vanek as a player who was in a similar situation to compare to.
I like to think this will pay off for the Leafs like that deal did for the Sabres…. Except Kessel would be CHEAPER.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
I again bring up Vanek as a player who was in a similar situation to compare to.
Two wrongs don’t make a right…that Vanek deal is even worse, the only upside is Vanek is a more durable player.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Certainly he was overpaid… but they were right were they not?
I’d like to think Burke is a smarter GM than Regher.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
Certainly he was overpaid… but they were right were they not?
Who was right, EDM or BUF?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
70GP
82GP
70GP
He’s missed 12 games for cancer and then 12 for a bad shoulder injury. The latter is a worry for sure.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Most important statline, which you missed PPP
2009-2010: 60GP?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Duh
Yeah.
Hopefully closer to 70.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
The shoulder injury this year was after the season. He sat out with Mono in 08-09
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Still think it’s way too much given his history of injuries, bad attitude, and his one-dimensional game.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
It’s a pretty important dimension.
One injury though. The other was cancer.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I thought he’s been out twice with shoulder/arm issues? (and he was a healthy scratch in his first playoff series).
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
same injury, that he wasnt playing through till he got called out by his team mates
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
He was a scratch against Montreal two years ago and in the 4 games he played he got 3-1-4. Boston might not have lost that series if they hadn’t benched him.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Attitude
Is something I’m sure Burke believes can be helped by Wilson and the Truculence
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
Testicular cancer isn’t one of those injuries that makes you think a player is fragile (a la Carlo Colaiacovo’s string of knee injuries or Lindros with concussions) and most things I’ve read say his attitude has improved considerably over his first year in the NHL.
-Graham-
by CanadianMaple09 on Sep 18, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The picks and salary are paying for potential. If Kessel’s production continues at same level it’s an okay $/term. If it improves it’s a good deal.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
For this year
What do they need more cap space for this year?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Make some more trades, get some better players, injuries. They still have to trade. It’s not smart to be handicapped with the salary cap, ie Burke/Andy Mac/Weight
They aren’t handicapped though. If they are trading for better players they will be moving salary in AND out. They aren’t going to be signing better players during the season so it’s a moot point. If they get injuries they have plenty of cheap players on the Marlies to move up AND down.
Plus, that cap space doesn’t take into account who is on the final roster.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Burke has been there and done that before, cap issues, is all I’m sayin. Hey not like this is a Jeff Finger signing.
Burke’s cap issues were way overblown by reporters that didn’t bother to look beyond the current season in order to ensure that they could get their digs in on Burke.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Burke’s cap issues were way overblown by reporters that didn’t bother to look beyond the current season in order to ensure that they could get their digs in on Burke.
Andy MacDonald?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
That team was still one game away from the Conference Finals and has almost every piece of their long-term future signed.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
That happened because Nieds and Selanne didn’t decide to play until just before the season.
Getting saltier by the post.
That also was a factor.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
there’ll be lots of cap space next year when we need it.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
plus
for this year, subtract his salary from now till the end of November
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
…from now till the end of November
When….
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Sep 18, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This quote cracks me up
Trading two first rounders is the equivalent of send Luke Schenn and Nazem Kadri to the Bruins for Phil Kessel
On the flip side, you could say it’s the equivalent of trading Patrick Stefan and Pavel Brendl for Phil Kessel, right?
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions
I love your POV.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. It’s a toss up and next years draft is supposed to be shallow.
It’s a risk but who knows… I prefer to think of it from your example.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
worst case scenario, he’s a one hit wonder. I don’t see it happening. I can see him plateauing as a 25-30 goal guy. still not terrible, but ya, overpaid. You only win big when you gamble big though.
We still have Kadri, Tlusty, Gustavsson, Schenn, Stalberg, and lessers like Blacker etc coming up through the ranks.
in the words of Bob Marley: Don’t worry about a thing, every little thing is gonna be alright.
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
you quote Bob Marley, you make everything right.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I can only hope 10 years from now we are all laughing about that time we traded 3 bust picks for a multi richard trophy winner
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
In 5 Years
If he hasn’t come close to winng a single Richard Trophy, but we’re a Cup Contender and he’s a part of it, I’m happy.
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
best case scenario of coutse
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm
well we’ll get a 2nd for 2010 for sure….
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
he will
I’ll guarantee the 2nd.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as niether one is a top 10 pick, I’m okay with this.
Anyone else see Toskala being dealt for a pick if the Monster lives up to the hype?
Getting saltier by the post.
Yes
There are quite a few guys that could be trade bait if the season goes well
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I wouldn’t count on anything above a 2nd rounder though. Those guys will not replace the first rounders. For those two all we can do is hope that the Leafs’ improve and the picks don’t pan out.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
That took way longer than 12 parsecs.
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 8:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Parsecs are a measure of distance not time!!! ARGH!
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JaredFromLondon: ...Odin, he's cool.
Less than 12 parsecs refers to the fact that Han Solo bent space and time or some shit and made the trip in 11.5 parsecs.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I think he just took a more dangerous route but was badass enough to fly it.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 19, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
WHERE'S CHEMMY?
There needs to be more caps and belligerency in here.
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
Scratched in the playoffs in ’08.
00:13 seconds of pk/per game
had 6 (six!) hits in the entire NHL season.
48% in the faceoff circle.
if this dude doesn’t push 40 goals a year, this trade has been a terrible mistake.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Lots of kids struggle in their first playoff series.
Other people can kill penalties
That is brutal but he’s not paid to hit
He’ll be playing the wing
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
If JFJ pulled the trigger on this deal, would you be singing from the same song book?
6 hits? Whatever happened to Truculence?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
We've GOT Truclence
In spades.
A little offensive talent is sorely need.
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
This exact trade? Yes. but JFJ would have traded Kaberle and the 7th overall for him at the draft.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course not
If JFJ made this trade at the end of his tenure no way I’d be able to see a bright side.
Burke, in my mind, has earned that with everything he has done so far. And I’m not ignoring the fact that there is a bad, bad side to this trade but there is also a very good side to this.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
If JFJ made this trade at the end of his tenure no way I’d be able to see a bright side.
Interesting…
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Logical though
If JFJ makes this trade I’m looking at a guy that signed 7 posts worth of players that are out of the NHL, traded a 1st, 2nd, and 4th for Toskala, and gave away the team’s best goaltending prospect for Andrew Raycroft.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Instead, you’re looking at guy that traded Andy MacDonald for unwashed socks and waived Bryzgalov for zilch.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
And won a Stanley Cup, signed Giguere, Hiller, developed Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan…
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
You’re going to give Burke credit for re-signing a goalie who wanted to stay in the city (in fact has a no trade); and “developing” kids drafted by the previous GM?
Great.
I would have gone with the Federov for Beauchemin deal myself (even though that one was orchestrated by his assistant).
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
If mf37 keeps posting in this thread, could somebody have the Ottawa authorities do a wellness check on me in about two hours?
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Sep 18, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m already testing the beams in my apartment…
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
im saving my killing spree for when Kessel only scores 35 and is considered a bust
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
most
of his deals are orchistrated by assistants. But he has to think it’s a good idea…. Burke gives a lot of freedom to those under him. Nonis negotiates most contracts.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn
I thought he acquired Giguere.
But Burke did hire that assistant ;)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
and
even with all those terrible stats, he somehow managed to pot 36 goals.
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, and if he can’t maintain that pace, the Leafs just got hosed at the draft table and with a bad cap hit.
And in my books, Kessel’s a huge “IF”
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
You’re absolutely right. It’s a gamble. Either team could end up winning this trade big time. I’m not entirely comfortable giving up the two 1st’s but Kessel has a greater chance of becoming a regular 40 goal scorer than those picks do, especially if the Leafs pick outside the top 10.
by Mirinov's Nose on Sep 18, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Top 10 my fucking ass
Try top 2…and with the horses the Leafs have on the blueline, that ain’t gonna happen.
This was a good trade, and a necessary trade. Leafs need some pop now, not a few years from now. This was the quickest, surest way to get some.
Kessel goes 60 GP this year, 25-20-45, Leafs make the playoffs.
I'll agree
There are definately ‘IFs’, hell, there are BIG IF’s….
But for every bad if, there’s a number of really good if’s that could lead to Kessel being exactly what we need.
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
I like you.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
what if
heaven forbid, under a teaching coach like Wilson, he becomes a well rounded player?
Still need those 40 goals mf?
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Still need those 40 goals mf?
For $5.2M/year and three draft picks (don’t forget Burke traded a third rounder to Chicago for a second rounder) he’s got to notch 40.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Why?
what if he turns into the next Yzerman or Modano. Guys known for their me-first play and one dimensional game.
All they needed was the right coach to change their attitudes. I’d say stranger things, but it’s not that strange to think it could happen again.
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
oops
should be “once known for their one dimensional game” obviously..
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
What if Ron Wilson works his magic and he becomes the next Patrick Marleau?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
From your previous position on this deal I’m going to take it you think that’s a bad thing?
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
I think the price is way too high for four reasons:
1. Kessel had one good year and is coming off some pretty heavy duty shoulder surgery
2. For all the talk about the Leafs kids, they really don’t have much in the way of prospects. They now have two less first round picks.
3. I think it’s way too early in the Leafs development cycle to be making this move (adding the big part and losing picks)
4. The total price – picks and salary commitment seems to me to be out of line with the risk reward ratio
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
your just a debbie downer today arnt you
=P
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
he is.
I am going to just bask in the glory of getting a player that I’ve coveted for a while, at a young age, without giving up anyone on the roster that can kill us.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Just being the house of sober second thought.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
but of course, totally necessary
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think looking at the trade and being optimistic is a lack of common sense.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I don’t think it would have mattered if you heard it was Chelios who just got the same deal today. :)
Yeah
I’d be thrilled with getting a 47 year old.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Not just a 47 year old, a “Stanley Cup Winning” 47 year old – and hey, it’s just picks right?
White is fighting Malkin? WTF?!@?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
LOL
I never said that they are ‘just’ picks.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
just yankin’ your chain.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Somewhere Grange and Feschuk are going
“see, that fucking guy LOVES the deal!”
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
And they are pounding out a revised edition for the Christmas market.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
BWAHAHAHA
You guys are going to love the interview. These guys may not be our favourite writers but definitely good guys.
But yeah, Christmas the hope for a young star chapter will be amended to note that it explicitly excludes Phil kessel.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
These are all legit concerns however I disagree that the risk reward ratio is out of line. It’s certainly steep but if he IS a 40g player I don’t think it was too much.
That being said I really wanted to know if you thought Kessel turning into a Marleau style player was a bad thing?
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
I think Marleau is a helluva hockey player.
By citing him I meant a guy that was always in the coach’s doghouse and never seemed to hit his potential.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Marleau did become a much better defensive player under Wilson.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He sure did, but the other side of his game seemed to die.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
His only two years of being a point per game player came under Wilson (05-06 & 06-07).
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong. 05-06 & 06-07 (both under Wilson) he scored 86 points in 82 games and 78 points in 77 games, respectively. 07-08 (Wilson’s last season) is the outlier.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
side note, do you know what was up with the Flames and Marleau toilet seat incident in the playoffs?
Not a clue.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No idea but didn’t Wilson apologize for blowing up at him?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
what if
with those first rounders we draft the next Patrick Stefan and Pavel Brendl…?
you can choose to be a poopy pants, or you can choose to hope for the best.
:P
/jk you know i got nothing but respect for ya
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey – I don’t know that I’d feel comfortable being contrarian if this wasn’t such a great site with such great people, so I hear you loud and clear Blurr.
But what if those picks turn out to be Parise (17) and Getzlaf (19)?
It’s amazing that Kessel scored 36 goals once, but that’s all there is to his game. If he can’t shoot the same way post-surgery, Burke just acquired the next Rob Brown.
Or to Chemmy’s earlier point, this could be the next Cheechoo.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
But what if those picks turn out to be Parise (17) and Getzlaf (19)?
That’s why I can’t get bent out of shape yet. The Leafs have traded away good possibilities but at the end of the day they’ve traded possibilites.
I’ve hit on a lot of what you’ve said in the post. But until we see where the picks land and what happens in terms of replacing picks it’s hard to get too down.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
as the resident contrarian, i take offense to you stealing my label.
but ya. this could be terrible. it could be fantastic. it could be neither.
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
But what if those picks turn out to be Parise (17) and Getzlaf (19)?
I will see how long it takes for a fanshot to get deleted from this site.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I absolutely love Marleau and would be fine with that.
Marleau’s career isn’t over, I think it will end quite well.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean he’s the most complete forward on a contending team?
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Playoffs!!!!!!1
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 8:40 PM EDT reply actions
LOL @ Boston Fans
“Brian Burke certainly found his guy that personifies “pugnacity, testosterone, truculence, and belligerence” in Phil Kessel……"
“I’ll take it. Over 5 mil for Kessel? No thanks.”
“Boston let him walk for a reason. No, the cap is not that reason. Any team would pay the price if they felt he was worth it. Boston felt he wasn’t. Period. Hope Burke knows what he’s doing.”
“Burke overpays player so is not very surprising at all”
“I am not upset whatsoever. I dont like Kessel and quite frankly I am glad he left.
Toronto is stupid for making this trade. Their team is awful and they are going to pay Kessel $5 million a year when he wont even play half the season.”
Hmmmmm
I am really really not sure what to think about this whole thing….
Happy to get Kessel, but I was hoping to avoid the 2 1st rounders issue
Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...
Just wondering if this is correct...
Compensation.
$3,923,437 – $5,231,249
1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick
$5,231,249 – $6,539,062
Two 1st’s, one 2nd, one 3rd round pic
If his contract is worth 5.4 million a year, then we actually saved a 3rd rounder by not giving an offer sheet?
How many Kessel-caliber players can be expected in a draft year, much less the next two, both said to be shallow in talent?
well not really, burke traded a 3rd to get the second
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
semantics, but valid. He can get 3rds and 2nds back for what he has on the team already. He got as much for Moore and Antropov.
yeah, im quite confident burke can squeeze like picks for the 2nd and 3rd but the firsts will be very hard to attain
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
The Leafs gave Chicago a 3rd rounder for the 2nd, so it’s actually two-firsts, a second and a third.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
So basically the deal is the same as if he made the offer sheet.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I am optimistically turning to the sauce to rationalize this.
http://beyondbeleaf.blogspot.com/
by BeyondBeleaf on Sep 18, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I already have the route laid out. It goes by the torch and pitchfork depot, and ends at Damien Cox’s office.
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
JUST CAME HERE DIDNT READ ALL COMMENTS
but answer me why did Burkie pay 2 firsts and a 2nd when he couldve just paid up 1-2-3???
I’m confused here ppl
READ THE POST
It’s up there.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
hahaha
All that work and you skip it over :(
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
He means
You accidentally posted game thread talk in the Kessel trade post
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
For DGB
Kessel had 6 hits last year. Stajan had 100+
Think about that for a minute
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
by mf37 on Sep 18, 2009 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Even worse
Wellwood had more than 6
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
raycroft had less
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you Jared
That acutally helps quite a bit
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
i think Jamal Mayers had less…
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Thomas had more.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Wellwood had more than 6…
Trips to the buffet.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
I was going to say “on the Richter scale when he fell over.”
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
The bright side is even though I think it’s too much for him, Bozak and Stalberg look like number one picks, We didn’t trade any prospects and I’ll bet Burke gets at least one 1st rounder back before 2011
I doubt a first rounder, but there is a slew of 2nds coming back
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Call me greedy, but I’d rather have the picks and the steady stream of NCAA talent.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
your greedy
and logical
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
MY HEADS EXPLODING
So why didnt Burke just give the 1-2-3 pick offer sheet and take his chances on whether the Bruins would match. If they matched he’d keep the picks and stay where he is and screw up a division rivals’ cap. Or we’d get Kessel for a cheaper price of the 1-2-3 picks! A win-win situation IMO.
kessel wanted too much money
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
an extra first
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn’t want to stay put an screw the Bruins’ cap. He wanted Kessel.
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
“At the end of the day, Burke didn’t have as much leverage as we had hoped and Burke has identified Phil Kessel as an elite offensive talent something that the Leafs have lacked since Mats Sundin was in his prime. Even then, Mats was not really among the league’s best scorers and Phil Kessel definitely has that potential.”
Jonas Hoglund = Marc Savard?
He also played in the clutch and grab era.
Sundin is a better scorer and offensive player than Kessel can even dream of being.
That said…we paid too much for Kessel. We bought 1 year of free agency, but the reported 5.4 mill per is far too steep for a player who couldn’t defend against Jason Allison.
....I should clarify
By paid, I’m talking about money with regards to the contract, not about the deal with Boston itself.
Welcome
Thanks for joining.
The money is for his potential. If he lives up to it then the $/term are good.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I am not saying that Kessel is currently better than Sundin just that Burke has identified him as being headed that way.
Also, Sundin was great for the Leafs but league-wide he wasn’t one of the top scorers. He topped 36 goals 4 times in his career. That said, he was remarkably consistent.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I joined a while ago...
=D
Of course Sundin wasn’t one of the top scorers. He played with usual AHL callups and over-the-hill veterans.
Furthermore, he played in the clutch-and-grab era. 10 years ago, Kessel would be getting can-openered and hooked and interfered with and his offensive production wouldn’t be close to what it is now. Either that or Scott Stevens would have put him in the hospital…one or the other.
lol
have you commented before?
Yeah, if it was the clutch and grab era than Kadri would not have been drafted either but it’s not.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Nope...
It was the offseason…there wasn’t much to comment on. Although the leaf colouring pages were brilliant. =D
I know it’s not. I just think it’s silly to say Kessel’s a better scorer when the situations of the two players isn’t really comparable.
I didn’t say that he IS a better scorer but that Burke must have identified Kessel as an elite offensive player and Sundin, while great, was never really among the best goal scorers.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Also, I can only welcome you when you comment first!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Lies, Lies, Lies ...
I’m sure there’s some membership list you could have scoured each and every day waiting for the day that I would join so you could welcome me properly!
I know you didn’t say it like that…but I felt like my dear Mats had been maligned =(
I love Mats
There is a membership list but I am loathe to e-mail people welcoming them because sometimes they use spam catcher e-mails plus for privacy reasons.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I was just teasing PPP. I’ve been told I’m a swell guy, which means I have a swell head, but I’m not that self-centred…yet. =)
There are a lot of people, leafs fans and otherwise that don’t understand just how amazing Sundin was given the tools that he had to work with (double-entendre intended). The ones that go so far as to claim that he shouldn’t make the HOF at all get me steamed.
The ones that go so far as to claim that he shouldn’t make the HOF at all get me steamed.
Feel free to give them a punch in the face for me.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
an obviously awesome prospect
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
That was an interesting goal considering I’ve never heard of the guy.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
he’s awesome, the next lindstrom!!!
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Alot to pay but certainly not too much. How many times do 21 year old 36 goal scorers become available?
Next year’s draft is supposed to be fairly weak after Hall, plus getting Kessel is pretty much equal to getting a top 5 pick in a strong draft.
I personally don’t like Kessel but the Leafs need him. The people calling Kessel a one year wonder likely didn’t see many Bruins games last season. The kid is unbelievably talented.
Go Leafs and Bruins!
www.mma-elite.com
Better question: how many 21 year olds coming off serious shoulder surgery (that puts them out at least six months) recover their scoring touch and improve their game?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
by mf37 on Sep 18, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d go with the over on that bet.
Gonchar had similar surgery, but his shooting % is all over the map, so it’s hard to compare.
Frantisek Kaberle had it, and his career declined but I have no idea at all if it was related to the surgery. Same with Eric Brewer – who knows why he went into a tailspin.
Jeff O’Neill had the surgery, but he had to deal with the death of his brother and an all beer and cheeseburger diet, so that’s not a fair comparison.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
so the only viable comparison is vinny, who is a very different player than kessel
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hossa, but he’s out too.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Are there any other 21 year old 36 goal scorers who have had this procedure?
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Not similar in age, but Lecavalier had a similar shoulder procedure done. I’m not sure if it was as significant as Kessel’s, but food for thought: Lecavalier just scored had a career low scoring season after his offseason surgery last year.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
Bigger will be how Lecavalier does this season. If he can rebound then we can feel ok about Kessel. I really didn’t think he looked bad in the second half last year plus his team really sucked.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
Dude, I’m serious, my widow is going to file a civil suit against you.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Sep 18, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
vinny was fine after it…..
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
See above
He wasn’t quite the same. Meaning at minimum, the Leafs may be looking at kessel not to produce until well into next season.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
BUT THAT MEANS WE WONT WIN THE CUP THIS YEAR!!!!
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
but ive already drawn a parade route….
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
So have I. Good thing it’s in crayons so I can smudge it around though.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
Careful with the glitter. That stuff is tough to get out of your hair.
In the Name of the Holy Truculence
the paste is delicious
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
both, i like to sample
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The team was also a shit-show last year. Hard to know how much of it was due to the shoulder and how much to the circus and the terrible team.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Then you’re indirectly accusing of Lecavalier of not trying his best when clearly players like St. Louis were having much better seasons under the same shit team. That doesn’t bode confidence in me that Kessel with a so-called attitude problem won’t figure, “Hey, a shoulder injury, so I better take it real easy.”
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
I’m not accusing him of that at all. I am saying that the team was terrible on and off the ice and at some point that’ll affect players as much as we hope that it doesn’t.
Tampa seems much more balanced this year so I’ll watch with bated breath…
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
You mean the shoulder injury that he played with the entire end of the season and playoffs while still putting up good numbers? I think he’ll be just fine.
Go Leafs and Bruins!
www.mma-elite.com
by Brad Ackerson on Sep 18, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
a sniper in the purest sense
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
cant miss what I didnt know we had
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Me Too
But you understand why that deal had to be made right?!?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
incompetence?
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
They were a cup contender that thought that they had to go through Philadelphia and they got one of the best power forwards in the league at the deadline. It was a…gamble…fuck…that didn’t pan out…FUCK STOP TALKING ABOUT OWEN NOLAN!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
amen PPP
that trade was great at the time, probably the most pumped i’ve been for a leaf trade in the last 10 years. it’s easy to hate it in hindsight.
The Nolan and Leetch trades, I was going bonkers in excitement with those moves. I thought the price more than justified the play at the time.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
leetch’s was ruined by the lockout. We missed an entire year of Leetch.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
he played very well that short period we had him
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Quinn saw a window with the core he had and went for it. Didn’t pan out, but it was the right move at the time. I was pumped.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Owen Nolan broke my heart.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Owen Nolan shook my hand.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
did you you look him in the eye and ask “WHY???”
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
It was before the trade.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
ah
OK then.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I hated it at the time.
The only deadline deal I was pumped for was the Gilmour one….that lasted long.
Getting saltier by the post.
Hey, you know who scored the most goals on their team last year? Owen Nolan.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
caveat
most goals for the Minnesota Wild, as coached by Jaques Lemaire
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 19, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
IRISH GOD OF WAR
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 19, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions
As someone who hated Owen Nolan well ahead of the crowd, I always assumed it was for spite against me personally.
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Boyes
no dice, he is on his 4th club – if Quinn passed him over too easily, you have to fault the Sharks and Bruins for the same thing.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
And keep in mind that the Sharks were rebuilding when they dealt him.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair the Bruins got Wideman out of it.
and the sharks got Jeff Jillson? Now that was terrible.
Getting saltier by the post.
Not quite. Sharks give up Boyes & a 9th for Curtis Brown and future considerations. Boston gives up Jillson & future considerations for Boyes and Andy Delmore. Buffalo gives up Delmore & Brown for Jillson.
Then Boston got Wideman for him a year later. But the Sharks gave him up for Curtis Brown. While they were rebuilding.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but when you’re making the case that the Leafs screwed up, that kind of logic goes out the window.
See: Kyle Wellwood
Resident Capologist
huh??
I don’t get it.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
hes fat
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
When Wellwood had that one good week for the canucks, everyone piled on the Leafs for waiving him. they failed to mention that Vancouver waived him, only nobody claimed him that time.
Resident Capologist
oh
yeah, but I think we’re trying to be reasonable here….
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t miss Brad Boyes that much. He’s sort of being left behind in the Blues this year for being atrocious on the defensive end. His skating is also not as highly regarded as say someone like Kessel.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
YES
2 first round picks MIGHT equal 1 30 goal scorer at some point. maybe.
kessel is 21. he will be a 30-goal scorer for the next 5 years, and hopefully the next 10.
this deal makes all the sense in the world.
Haha already 22 pages of comments on TSN’s ‘Your call’ about the trade
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 9:27 PM EDT reply actions
TSN’s Your Call is one step above YouTube comments.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Bleacher Report?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
and 12 steps above hockey buzz
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve never read hockey buzz, so I’ll take your word for it.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s right. and save yourself the trouble.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Is it hfboards Trade Rumors bad?
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t believe it’s worse that YouTube comments.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
oh it is
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
especially when you factor in most of those people are paying to be there
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that’s the clincher!
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Asham a dickhead?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Toronto fans were convinced the Leafs could get John Tavares and Brayden Schenn in the same draft giving up Kaberle, Blake and a handshake.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
giving up Kaberle, Blake and ahandshakefistpump.
fixed
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Guess Garth Snow didn’t want a happy ending from Blake. Thanks a lot Blake.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
If the Islanders has aqquired Kessel
The Headline would have to read “Snow Gets Ball”
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe we are now the only team in the East that can ice a lineup with an odd number of balls….
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 9:29 PM EDT reply actions
and the sens will ice the only team without any
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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Game, set and match
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re just going to give all the Burkie’s this week to Jared.
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
by kidkawartha on Sep 18, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I must admit, as a purveyor of dick jokes, I am significantly biased in favour of this trade on a comedic basis.
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice to see somebody thinking positive :)
Go Leafs and Bruins!
www.mma-elite.com
by Brad Ackerson on Sep 18, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Kessel’s a player that will really be on the ball
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually now that I think about it we won’t have an odd number of balls, Schenn’s 3 balls will make up for Phil’s missing nut.
Go Leafs and Bruins!
www.mma-elite.com
by Brad Ackerson on Sep 18, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure Schenn only has two balls, but sources say they are large and brass-like
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
my email inbox says I have 37 unread items
THIS IS A SIGN FROM THE UNIVERSE – PHIL KESSEL WILL SCORE 37 GOALS DO NOT QUESTION MY LOGIC OMGIMSOEXCITEDIDONTKNOWWHATTODO
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 9:32 PM EDT reply actions
ONE of those posts
Is about Viktor Stalberg, not Phil Kessel
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
ILOVEVIKTORSTALBERGALMOSTASMUCHASILOVEPHILKESSEL
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
What? Are they treating his shoulder with homeopathy or something?
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
YOUREALEAFSFAN
WHATDOYOUKNOWABOUTHOPE?
IBELIEVEINPHILKESSELANDLEESTEMPNIAK!!!1
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
no homeo
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
uhoh
now it says 36…
must not read anymore email.
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 18, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It's okay!
My inbox has 204 items in it. And my name starts with an L and ends with a K, while “Kessel” starts with a K and ends with an L. Logically, we can similarly reverse the order of 204, and get 402 goals for Kessel this year.
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
isn’t numerology great!
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
LAFF
Those naysayers are going to look dumb when he does that.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Well...
Now I have no idea how I feel.
I’m officially completely confused about wether I like this deal or not.
The Handsome Man's Guide To Life- Tuxedos and Truculence.
first legit sniper since mogilny, i reserve judgement till he hits the ice
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I reserve judgment until he hits the ice and the picks are made and THEY hit the ice.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
That could be 4-5 years from now. Suppose there’s a Cup before then, and Kessel plays a big part, does it still matter how good they turn out?
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
For the fan? No. realistically one cup would make me forget everything.
For the franchise and it’s history? Yeah, if those guys win Boston more than 1 cup.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
That last bit would make it all worth it.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but even if those picks turn into Getzlaf and Who ever who is to say that the leafs would have drafted those players?
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
You pretty much described the counter-argument to the “Leafs traded away Luongo” rhetoric.
Resident Capologist
EXACTLY!!!
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
They did land Kadri and Schenn, so I get the feeling these guys know what they’re doing at the draft table.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
yeah, but they were both top 10s in deep drafts, drafting higher in a weak draft is part skill part luck
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t win if you don’t have a ticket.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
but you cant fuck up when you dont have one!
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather take the chance.
Can you imagine how crappy Dave Morrison is feeling tonight?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
He’s invigorated. Burke has challenged him to be better by not having the crutch of two first rounders.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
You know I’m sending all your comments to Grange and Feschuk, right?
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
traitor!
Wait! It’s sarcasm!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I’d never sellout PPP to Feshcuk.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
he’ll hunt this down on his own ;)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
This thing is that it’s not just the guys taken with that pick. It’s every player taken between the pick they traded and the first time they pick in 2010 and 2011.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Join me in beating the rush.
I already hate those kids and the Bruins haven’t event started SCOUTING them yet.
Resident Capologist
I am cautiously optimistic.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
theres only one explanation to this
burke heard my chants of “kessel! kessel!” at the fans first game on wednesday
by GerbersAdvocate on Sep 18, 2009 9:47 PM EDT reply actions
Good work
So if this goes south you’re in a lot of trouble!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
you didnt let me finish
my chants were actually
“kes-sel! kes-sel! dont trade for-him!”
by GerbersAdvocate on Sep 18, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
VIKTOR STALBERG IS FUCKING FAST.
KESSEL IS ALSO.
TRUCULENCE + SPEED = CUP
Getting saltier by the post.
There’s no such thing as not underrating Stalberg (unless you put him on par with Wendel, which would just be silly). This is the most excitement a Leaf prospect has given me in a very long time. Even Schenn didn’t turn my head quite so much (that may have been at least in part because I already expected Schenn to be awesome).
by puckurgently on Sep 18, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
stay at home defensemen are not nearly as exciting as fast skating, scoring wingers.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Kessel
the dramatic move that Burke wanted to make, like getting Pronger before, and the Sedins.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 10:10 PM EDT reply actions
Holy Negativity!
Lets be honest guys + gals… what is the percentage of first rounders turning into 36 goal scorers after beating cancer at age 21???? Not too many… I don’t think it’s too high a price…AT ALL
"And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been."
by Leaf of Abstinence on Sep 18, 2009 10:10 PM EDT reply actions
Just looking at every angle :)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Ture enough, but GEES, it’s hard enough listening to the haters, now we have to listen to leaf nation question our own moves? Man oh man people, we’ve missed the friggan playoffs for 4 straight years…ya gotta give a little to get a little in this league!
"And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been."
by Leaf of Abstinence on Sep 18, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The haters won’t discuss or acknowledge the good.
have to see both sides of things.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I’m 95% positive this is a fantastic move…BUT…. the 5% negative in me states that he’ll score 5 goals in his first 7 games back and hurt one of his knees… then he’ll come back and score 10 goals in 14 games in 2011 and get a concussion… then he’ll come back…. ah you get the picture! Wouldn’;t that be our crappy luck LOL
"And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been."
by Leaf of Abstinence on Sep 18, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
In the words of the great Mikey McDermott
You can’t lose what you don’t put in the middle.
(pause)
But you can’t win much either.
Resident Capologist
One of the best films of all time. Speaking of which, I’m kidkawartha at fulltilt, clrkaitken. :)
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
by kidkawartha on Sep 18, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
who had
the over/under on the “cupboards bare in Toronto” was brought up?
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 18, 2009 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
Anyone want to do the math comparing the top scorers in the league last year and their games played/average ice time vs Kessels 70 games, 16:23 AIT and 36 goals?
I believe he would compare favourably to most of the top players in the league
daoust?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 18, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions
Chemmy did that, he was 7th or 8th in G/GP
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
God if we don’t make the playoffs after giving up two first rounders, I’ll cut a bitch.
A Leafs fan stuck in western Canada.
What do you mean, “if”? Don’t shatter my dreams…
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
dreams of what? cutting bitches or making the playoffs?
Refusing To Bow To Your Standards Since 2006
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 18, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
By all means, please tank.
If we don’t even have to trade up to get first overall, that would be brilliant.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Berger & McCown Are Dead Wrong
We didn’t trade Luke Schenn and Nazem Kadri for Phil Kessel. If we finish where I think we will in the next two years we just traded Alexander Steen and Carlo Colaiacovo for someone a lot better than Lee Stempniak.
I like this trade a lot.
THIS
IS WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT
CALIFORNIA POSITIVITY UNITE!
"Sanity is not statistical." - George Orwell, a Leafs fan...
Stalk me here...
by blurr1974 on Sep 19, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
The way I see it, as long as we are not giving top 5 first round picks and as long as Kessel gives us a consistent 30-40 goals a year, it was definitely worth it.
Blockquoted paragraph Trading two first rounders is the equivalent of send Luke Schenn and Nazem Kadri to the Bruins for Phil Kessel bq. Blockquoted paragraph
That’s one way of looking at it. You could also say it’s the equivalent of sending Alex Steen and Jiri Tlusty to the Bruins for Kessel.
Welcome
Thanks for joining.
Don’t sweat the formatting fail. It happens to everyone :)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Don’t sweat the formatting fail.
TWSS?
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Sep 18, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh wow, major fail, I left the “it happens to everyone” part out of the block quote.
In other news, this beer tastes great. Thanks mf37 for convincing me to get blind drunk.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Sep 18, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I do what I can.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Or Jeff Ware. Or Eric Fichaud. Or Luca Cereda. Or Brandon Convery. Or Dude, WheresMyHouseKey Drake Berehowsky.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Luongo and Neidermayer.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
I think it is pretty safe to say that the pics won’t be top five.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats what everyone said when the Leafs traded a first for Kurvers.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
STOP IT!
I only have nice bottles of scotch and I don’t want to have to kill them tonight
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
If this team finishes bottom five for both of the next two seasons I’ll buy you a case of your favourite brew.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 18, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I love you.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I would never judge picks by who they turn out to be. A pick is potential; maybe it’s Sergei Gonchar and maybe it’s Scott Pearson. If you trade a seventh rounder for a backup goalie, does it turn into a horrible deal if the pick turns out to be Henrik Zetterberg? No. A solid backup goalie is worth much more than the potential of a 7th rounder.
But I would also never decide that 2010 is a shallow draft in the fall of 2009. I don’t think we’ll have any reliable idea of whether it’s weak or strong until at least 2012.
And I don’t like this deal. I don’t like trading big potential for a guy Boston doesn’t want any more. Raycroft isn’t a perfect example; but Sergei Samsonov comes to mind.
I've been looking at the sky
Fellas, Fellas, Fellas...
Relax, enjoy, you just got a first line forward and legit goal scoring threat.
With the studs on the blueline, the WORST the Leafs do is maybe 10th in the East the next two years. Those picks are going to be mid-to-late first round crap shoots. You just traded Sasha Pokulok, Erik Mestery and, oh, I dunno, say Matt Pettinger for a guy that scored half a goal a game last year.
GREAT move by Burke
That’s what I needed to hear!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Only 8 PP goals, too…dude scores at ES…think he doesn’t get a shit load more PP time in TOR this year? C’mon.
He might be a little off his game next year as he recovers from surgery, but for fuck’s sake, he’s 21.
His shooting pct was 15.5%…lots of guys hit that number last year.
Finally, I disagree that he’s got to hit 40 or he’s a bust. 40 is a haaaard number to hit in today’s NHL. If he’s consistently over 30, and he will be, this is a win. Smile, for cripes sake.
Sorry fat_daddyo, gotta disagree. There is no arguing that the Leafs paid a very high price for an injured guy with one good year under his belt.
His production drops by 40% when he’s not on the ice with Savard.
Lots of great players get drafted 10 through 20.
If the Leafs had a deep wealth of prospects, I’d like the deal more. But the cupboards are pretty bare and they just got a little thinner.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
Sure, there have been plenty of guys drafted in that position that turned out well…but there have been a lot more that turned into a big ol’ steaming pile of crap. It is, as I said, a complete crapshoot drafting in that position.
One good year? How many years has he had, for cying out load?
You can find a playmaking center in this league a hell of a lot easier than you can find a guy that can score. And you can trade from areas of depth for picks and prospects even easier.
The one, indisputably hardest, and therefor most valuable, thing to do in hockey is score. This is a great trade.
He’s had three years in the bigs, one of which was impressive. It also came when he played with a premiere set-up man in Marc Savard.
When he didn’t play with Savard, he scored at way lower rate. The Leafs don’t have a Savard.
Kessel remains a huge question mark, but he’s now a question mark with a five year, $5.4M cap hit.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
His production drops by 40% when he’s not on the ice with Savard.
mmm…mf….don’t stop
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
OK
I’VE READ THROUGH ALL THE COMMENTS
HERE IS MY OFFICIAL REACTION:
mf37 is my favorite. PPP needs to break into the good stuff. I’m going to miss Kessel’s scoring but on the way home I was thinking what a beautiful thing Thornton-Begin-Bitz is going to be.
And how close am I to getting to trade-up-for-first-overall territory?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:55 PM EDT reply actions
Miles away
who is going to take the 14th pick (highest ranked playoff failure) and the 20-something pick for first overall?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Looks like I have a vested interest in seeing you guys do poorly overall. Well this is awkward.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 18, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s ok. We have a vested interest in you guys drafting poorly now. We’re even.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Deal.
Now get out there and kill some habs.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 19, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
So, uh, you like stuff?
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
uh, yeah….stuff….
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 19, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
As I emailed to Chemmy, I wonder if Chiarelli even holds on to the Leaf picks. 1st rounders have never been worth more, wouldn’t surprise me if the Bruins package them up at the deadline to make a run for the cup.
Bitter Leaf Fan: a life-long Toronto Maple Leafs fan comments on the team, the media and the exasperation...
I support your opinions and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 19, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t e-mail back but I agree. Thos are HUUUUUUGE chips especially considering last year’s trade deadline.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Who will be this year’s Mark Recchi? Steve Montador? Will we give up Johnny Boychuk?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 19, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Is it fucking October yet already?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 19, 2009 12:05 AM EDT reply actions
Think of it this way....
…we could trade 2 first rounders, a top defensive prospect (Sbisa) & another top 6 guy (Lupul) for Pronger.
Or we could have Kessel for two 1sts & a 2nd.
I know what I’d take. Oh, and not the Pronger deal.
http://beyondbeleaf.blogspot.com/
And Pronger has how many seasons left?
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
by kidkawartha on Sep 19, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
6
or 7, I think, even if he retires, he’s still on the cap
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 19, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Karina, I realized after I posted that it was ambiguous. I meant, comparing the two signings, how many useful years does Pronger have left compared to Kessel.
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
true
and you’re right… but the Flyers also managed to mess up Pronger’s extension so that even after he’s useless and retired, they have his cap hit.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 19, 2009 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, that’s the difference between Burkie and his crew and everybody else……..
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
by kidkawartha on Sep 19, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Is ‘caustionsly optimistic’ the right way to go on this?
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into Iraq"
- Major Mike Shearer
Well there’s three choices. You can believe:
1) Kessel’s shoulder is going to fall off and if it doesn’t he was only good because he played with Savard and he will totally bust with the Leafs. With the picks Boston will select the next Luongo, Neidermayer, & Bobby Orr.
B) Kessel made Savard look good (like Kovalchuk did in ATL), his shoulder is fine, and he will score 50+ goals for the next 5 years. The draft picks will turn out to be Luca Cereda, Jeff Ware, & Roman Kukumberg
3) Something middle of the road. Kessel will have a down year this year as he recovers, but will put up good numbers eventually. Boston will draft useful NHLers, but not future hall of famers, or trade the picks at the deadline for a cup run.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Sep 19, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Options 1, B and 3? Awesome use of the bullet point. Love it.
His health problems scare the hell out of me, but he must have played with a serious injury during the playoffs, so he’s not soft. Maybe unlucky.
Much depends on the future development of OLAS and Nazdaq.
It gives us a solid core of youngsters who have big potential that could encourage UFAs to sign with us. I’m sure people like Kovalchuk and Savard are looking at us a lot more favourably now.
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into Iraq"
- Major Mike Shearer
Injuries and goaltending permitting, I think the Leafs may be moving into the territory of playoff 7th-seed that no-one wants to play against.
One of those teams that might lose in the first round, but the series is a 6 or 7-game war and the winners lose their next series in 5 because the first round takes so much effort.
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into Iraq"
- Major Mike Shearer
In other words, the Sens, but they aren’t making the playoffs this year. Or next.
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
No. the Sens will roll over and die if they make the playoffs. If we get there, whatever else happens, a team will have to pay in blood – not sweat – to beat us.
We now have – at least on paper – the scoring and goaltending to get us there.
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into Iraq"
- Major Mike Shearer
Well, now what do I do? I thought the regular season messed with brain chemistry enough. :)
"We've had an ongoing problem with Grabovski this year." Bob Gainey, 4/04/09
This is how I explain it to my non-Leaf fan friends....
“Do you like this deal?”
At this point, yes. It remains to be seen what these picks will turn out to be. It could be another Getzlaf (19) or another Richards (24) or it could be another Luca Cereda or another Al Montoya.
Either way, Kessel is 21 and has shown he can score like a motherfucker, albeit with a premiere setup man. Kessel with Kadri 2 years from now sounds pretty good.
What another team picks with our 1st is a lot different that what the Leafs would pick with the same selection.
Still, 2 firsts and a 2nd is steep….
At least it wasn’t 2 first, Lupul & Sbisa for Pronger.
Those who will point at Niedermayer and Luongo, who the fuck is to say that the Leafs would select those same players? Fuck the picks. The Leafs historically don’t make the most of them. I know it’s Burke now, and management is different. I’m well aware that the scouting staff has been beefed up.
All I can say to those that hate the deal: the Leafs generally don’t develop talent very well, so to pick up an elite offensive talent for what could be is a good move. Take the gamble, and go with the kid that is 21 and scored 36 times in the NHL. I’m willing to bet that the Leafs won’t draft a kid that will score like Kessel can in the top 20 in either of the next two drafts, or in the top 50 next year (2011).
It’s proven talent that Burke has dealt for. He’s 21. He’s here for 5 years if he doesn’t pull a Heatley. I like it, and he’s a potential A- player for our team. We haven’t had that for a long time beyond Sundin. And fuck,, Mats is gone, Kessel is 21.
You have to give to get, as they say. I think we got it for the Leafs.
http://beyondbeleaf.blogspot.com/
this is what I see
we have a young stud defender – Schenn.
We have a young stud forward – Kessel.
Now if Gustavsson pans out…. GAH. We will have 3 of the most important keys to winning. Fill in around them with players like Komisarek, Kaberle (who I believe will be inked to an extension next summer), Beauchemin, the possiblity of players like Kadri, Bozak and Stalberg…. and I start to get REALLY excited.
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 19, 2009 2:19 AM EDT reply actions
Posting on it at my site
I think it’s a good trade. The cupboard is stocked, we have prospects, we can afford to let the players we do draft and sign to develop more slowly now. We’ve got a top offensive threat, and we’ve got secondary depth … we’ve got a pretty loaded blue line.
The only question that remains is goaltending and for me that isn’t a huge question at this point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
so everything’s coming up roses???
"Life is just a place where we spend time between games. Hockey is where we live, where we can best meet and overcome pain and wrong and death." - Fred Shero
by Karina on Sep 19, 2009 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily
But it’s all part of trying to build something
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 19, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
There's a solid foundation
going forwards as far as I can tell.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
We just need
a top centre ice man.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 19, 2009 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Savard?
/evil grin
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into Iraq"
- Major Mike Shearer
You get the burlap sack, I’ll go find the guy to make the false ID. Who shall we say Savard is, John Kurtz?
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Here’s my take on Kessel. Not featured in this article: any comment on the number of testicles possessed by our newest addition.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Sundin?
I like to eat the yellow snow behind the zamboni
by Kerry Fraser on Sep 19, 2009 4:50 AM EDT up reply actions
We don't need Savard
Just play Kessel, Grabovski and Kulemin.
As much as I like Poni, he might be trade bait this year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
My gut reaction is Nooooo! What have they done?!!
The Leafs have given away way too much, once again. I don’t even care for the salary cap or the amount paid to this fellow, but once again they gave away capital for one player. Some may say, on the other hand, that the Leafs underperform [suck] in the draft, so these draft picks were worth little in the hands of the Leafs; however, I believe that the picks by Burke have been right on. It looks to me like pressure from the MLSE directors to do something great this year has built up and all the plans of long range and sustained improvement have been, once again, discarded for short term goals.
My veredict: I don’t like this deal. But I hope I am absolutely wrong.
Here
is my completely late take on this trade which will probably copy the thoughts of many commenters and thus will be of little value except for me enjoying the fact that my 2 cents are added! :D
I worry that the draft picks will turn out to be spectacular players who will overshadow Kessel’s upcoming contributions to the Leafs (hey I’m a Leaf fan, worrying is what we do right?). I also know there is risk that Kessel won’t live up to last season’s excellent campaign and will be merely average for his Leaf career (or, heaven forbid, worse than average).
However I’m willing to give Burke the benefit of the doubt. I am confident with his reinvention of the team they will not finish low in the standings, and so the 2 first rounders will be around the middle of the order, which as we’ve seen in many posts regarding this are absolute crapshoots. Meanwhile Kessel is a mostly known quantity who has proven capable of being a big-time scorer in the league.
Go Kessel go, prove your worth to us Leaf fans and show the Bruins they were wrong to let you go.
Go Leafs go!!! Playoffs!!!1
Being a Leaf fan here requires one to be sufficiently lubricated... and truculent!
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