Moore blames Burke and Crawford for Bertuzzi punch

A "the horror! Hockey is violent sometimes!" article in the Star. Who'd have thought?

over 2 years ago puckurgently 29 comments 0 recs |

Comments

So if I tell Jared it would be a good idea to ‘take care of’ an annoying habs fan, and he goes and punches him in the face.. I am liable? Seriously?

What was done to Steve Moore was an injustice, but don’t go blaming anyone but Bertuzzi.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

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by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 25, 2009 9:34 AM EDT reply actions

If you hire a hitman to take somebody out, will you not go to jail for it?

I don’t remember their names but the girl who got her boyfriend to stab the other girl to death got a harsher sentance than the boyfriend.

I’m not totally disagreeing with you. In no way is Crawford more responsible than Bertuzzi but I do believe he should take some of the blame. I wish this whole thing would just die though. It has dragged on for far too long without anything coming of it for Moore. It just seems like he’s just trying to lump anybody remotely connected to this and hope he hits the jackpot.

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by Hungry Leafs Fan on Sep 25, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions

If you do that, you get the actual Burkie medal, not just the online one.

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by kidkawartha on Sep 25, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Considering what Crawford wrote and said in the dressing room I’d give him some blame for saying something so charged and then smiling about the outcome.

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by PPP on Sep 25, 2009 9:44 AM EDT reply actions

By that standard, every coach who has ever sent an enforcer onto the ice with a purpose is guilty of conspiracy. Sending someone after a guy does not make you responsible for the fact that he went about it recklessly. Finding it amusing, at worst, makes you a dick. It still doesn’t make you responsible.

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by puckurgently on Sep 25, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions

I’d say that there is a big difference between putting an enforcer on the ice to fight and telling your team that a guy has to pay the price.

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by PPP on Sep 25, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions

what is

“the price” though?

to me, the point of sending out a bruiser is to “send a message” and that message usually being “you hurt us, we’ll hurt you.” I love a good hockey fight as much as the next guy, but to think “the message” is any different from “the price” is a little optimistic.

let’s not sugar coat it. hockey’s violent. some guys are employed to do direct physical violence on others.

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by blurr1974 on Sep 25, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Meh

Hockey’s obviously a collision sport but even this seems above and beyond. Maybe because other times that coaches say that a player has to ‘pay the price’ the players exacting that toll have had honour we don’t hear about it but I don’t think it’s a common occurrence.

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by PPP on Sep 25, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions

no

if it were a common occurrence, hockey would be the most watched sport in the States.

i’m just saying that hockey, at all professional levels, encourages thuggery on some level or another. there’s really no other reason a guy like Derek Boogaard should be playing in the NHL.

it’s a part of the sport, and the coaches and GM’s are just as culpable, especially when it’s premeditated, such as this event was.

a “heat of the moment” fight still has some set up to it, and it usually involves the coaches putting those guys who’s job it is to hurt people, on the ice at the same time. i’m OK with that. i’m also OK with agitators like Steve Moore needing to fight their own battles, but be a man about it.

meet the guy face to face.

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by blurr1974 on Sep 25, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Also Steve Moore’s brother is an asshole.

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by Chemmy on Sep 25, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Moore had already fought that game

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by PPP on Sep 25, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions

EXACTLY

and bert still wanted his pound of flesh, and i’d be surprised if Crawford wasn’t on the bench telling his team that Moore still owes them.

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by blurr1974 on Sep 25, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions

And if Bert hadn’t been a complete idiot about how he got his pound of flesh then it would have been an incident quickly forgotten. Steve Moore might have been bruised up a little but he would have been fine and gone on to finish his career and (probably) be in good health today.

That’s why this incident is absolutely 100% Bertuzzi’s fault. Trying to blame Crawford and even Burke, while somewhat understandable from Moore’s point of view (though it does seem like he’s throwing everything at a wall and seeing what sticks), just doesn’t make sense.

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by stucky on Sep 25, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

i’m losing my point, which really is that a normal interpretation of the law can’t really apply to most of the words being said on a pro sports team about “the other guy”

if it did, guys would be going to jail left right and center for their conspiracy to commit assault charges.

that doesn’t absolve anyone of the blame, but to say that Bertuzzi didn’t receive any encouragement and that encouragement didn’t effect his decision making process isn’t fair. in the heat of the moment, the way these guys are geared as competitors, words are going to be said.

Bertuzzi is 100% at fault for his actions. If we apply the letter of the law from previous conspiracy cases involving assault with intent to injure, or worse, then Crawford and 99% of the Canucks dressing room are also at fault. To say hockey,or any pro sport, works sociologically like the rest of the world is naive.

If the words Crawford was saying were “I want some one to break his neck” that’d be an unfortunate turn of phrase, and we would still think he meant “pay the price” and for someone to fight him.

Hope that all makes sense, i’m trying to agree with you all, but at the same time point out, if we apply the same rules to a dressing room that we do to society at large, then Crawford is certainly not absolved of blame, BUT, given the culture of competition, the MSM needs to be mindfull of how things are different, and how these words are used as motivation and not as a plan of assault and bodily injury.

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by blurr1974 on Sep 25, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions

“Paying the price” in context sounds like someone starting a fight. I really doubt Marc Crawford’s actual intent was “someone go out and paralyze a guy”.

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by Chemmy on Sep 25, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions

certainly not

but i’d be surprised if it wasn’t “go out and hurt him like he hurt Naslund”

it’s a slippery slope, and i’d prefer it if the MSM just accepted it as a fabric of the game. Obviously things like McSorley swinging his stick like a bat or Bertuzzi sneaking up behind a guy he held 30+ lbs weight advantage over will need to be addressed both on and off the ice, but accept the fact that coaches and GM’s are competitive, passionate guys when it comes to hockey, and they’re going to say things that, from the long view, sound REALLY bad.

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by blurr1974 on Sep 25, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions

P'HAH!

Because Burke and Crawford broke his neck! HAAAAAAAAHA!

Dumbass.

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by Donut King on Sep 25, 2009 10:13 AM EDT reply actions

I really, really want to be on Moore’s side in all of this, and not assume he’s just playing a PR game to get a big payday. He’s still the victim, after all.

But this is absolutely transparent. Blaming Burke is one thing, but using his recent quotes as some sort of evidence is just an obvious attempt to create some Toronto media coverage. And I bet Cox jumps all over it.

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by Down Goes Brown on Sep 25, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions

Bertuzzi didn’t have to go out and get Moore to ‘Pay the price’

What, Crawford would have benched him for not doing it? Would that be the penalty?

I hardly think so. To say there is some sort of coercion here and that by the letter of the law Crawford, Burke et al are to share some of the responsibility of this is absurd.

Lay the blame where the blame is due. As for Crawford being partly to blame, being an asshole isn’t a crime. If it was, the Bell Centre would be half empty every game.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

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by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 25, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions

Thought exercise

Who’s the bigger asshole from ’72: Bobby Clarke or John Ferguson?

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by puckurgently on Sep 25, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions

I’ll give it to Clarke, just because he was so young at the time and was well advanced in his assholery

From my understanding, John was quite the asshole but at that point he had a longer time to develop.

So, in 72 I give the edge to Clarke – pretty much on potential.

Also there is a bit of a difference from somebody saying “Some one has to break Karlomov’s F***ing leg” and actually doing it.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 25, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Also there is a bit of a difference from somebody saying "Some one has to break Karlomov’s F***ing leg" and actually doing it.

That’s more or less where I am on this. I think people will reach different conclusions, which is kind of the point, but it’s probably good to look at a more clear-cut example of what Crawford and Burke are being accused of, and one which doesn’t involve anyone associated with a team we’re going to be in a hurry to defend.

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by puckurgently on Sep 25, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions

sooo…. if Steve Moore was russian it would be fine :)
Clarke was a freakin hero here after he took out Kharlamov

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by Matt_Roberts on Sep 25, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Let’s not forget that fucking Russian that kicked in that scrum. Lots of dirty shit went down on both sides and it’s all shameful.

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by PPP on Sep 25, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions

How do you get that out of my comment? I blamed Clarke.

One of the problems with society today is no one wants to be responsible for their actions. It is always someone else’s fault

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Sep 25, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions

If Crawford said “Go out there and paralyze Moore” then he’s to blame.

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by Chemmy on Sep 25, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions

am i the only one who is sick of this blame everyone crap?
It all rests on Bertuzzi, all of it.
I don’t care if Burke, Crawford and jesus told Bert that Moore needed a “neck adjustment” it was Bertuzzi who chased a man down and jumped him from behind and ended the mans career.
I’ve had coaches tell me to “take care of that guy” many times, you know what i did? I took care of em, FACE TO FACE with a fight, or with a clean body check, I never once felt that they ment for me to assassinate the guy like a coward.

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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 25, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs