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Kaberle out to pasture? Maybe not...

Some Leaf fans are on the fence whether or not to re-sign Tomas Kaberle next summer, or if Burke should try and trade him for future value (picks/prospects/Jeff Carter... sigh..)

One line of thought is that Kaberle is in his prime now, and by the time the team is ready to do some playoff damage, he will no longer be a contributor. Sound logic... or is it?

I decided to do a quick check of point contribution by defencemen compared to their age. I thought 9 seasons (from '99-'00 to '08-'09) would be a fairly good range of seasons to draw upon -- 5 years pre-lockout and the 4 years since.

Star-divide

In the first chart, which I called 'Top 100' and is coloured in blue, I sampled the top 100 defencemen from each season ranked by points. This generated 900 players to draw upon. The second chart, called '20-plus' and coloured red, sampled all players over those 9 seasons who got at least 20 pts in a season. This generated 684 players.

In both instances, the average production continued to increase as the players aged.

Top100_medium

20plus_medium

Now obviously this data is skewed, as there are nowhere near as many 40 year old players (2) as there are 23 year old (more than 40).

Agedist_medium

...the sample size clearly falls off the table after 35. However, there were still 10 players until 38, so this may be more of a reflection of more physical defencemen retiring after 35 then it is a lack of production out of all elder-statesmen.

The question then is this: is Kaberle the kind of defenceman who can last well into his late 30's? Out of the list of 38 year olds (Scott Stevens, Phil Housley, Teppo NumminenRob BlakeChris CheliosMathieu Schneider, Larry Murphy, Paul Coffey, Al MacInnis, Nicklas Lidstrom) only 2 of them (Stevens & Chelios) were still playing a physical kind of defence. The other 10 were all slick-skating, first-pass, power-play quarterback style defence.

I think that Kaberle fits into this kind of mold, and has not taken the career-long beatings and wear & tear of a guy like Stevens or Chris Pronger. His NHL career should be able to last as long as he wants it to (granting the fact that he may head to the Czech Rep. at some point) and could still be contributing 35+ points like his fellow greybeards. Although calling Tomas Babyface a greybeard is a bit like calling Wallin an NHL player... 

Given that he's only 31 right now (turning 32 at the trade deadline), Kaberle could still be capable of having another 4-6 highly productive years. And with the help that is surely to come in the next few years ((oh please let help be on the way....)) he should have more outlets to dish to and more skilled players to convert his passes to goals - meaning his production may not dip too far below the 40-pt range in these upcoming playoff years.

Having Kaberle for a few more years may help the likes of White, Schenn, Gunnarsson, Mikus, or others really find their game on the back end, though White might already be pretty close. Sheltering your young guys from the opposition's top PK units until they're ready could allow them to emerge fully developed, as was the case in Pittsburgh with Letang/Goligoski. 

So, does this data change your mind on the Kaberle issue?

Poll
What do we think should happen with #15??
Kaberle stay!
21 votes
Kaberle go!
25 votes
Never go anywhere, Tomas you're the man. Be our Captain!
12 votes
Enjoy the sights & sounds of beautiful Atlanta or balmy Edmonton...
15 votes

73 votes | Poll has closed

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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Comments

Display:

Trade him if the return is something you just cant pass on, if your only offered a 2nd and a middling prospect or something not blue chip, keep him.

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Jan 25, 2010 9:36 AM EST reply actions  

With a year left on his amazing contract ($4.25 million cap hit) Kaberle should warrant a mid 1st rounder at the least. Maybe even with a prospect or two thrown in.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jan 25, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

i agree, anything less just isnt worth it

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Jan 25, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Ya. We're dealing from a position of strength (for once)

we’re certainly happy to sell, but we’re also perfectly happy to resign him, so no other team can count on us feeling any pressure at all to give into a low ball bid – which is more than can be said for quite a lot of the near-playoff / cup-contention GM’s.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. I think I need a drink now.

by Wan Ihite on Jan 25, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

If you didn't vote

KABERLE STAY, I’m afraid you might be a terrorist.

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PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Jan 25, 2010 10:22 AM EST reply actions  

I believe they're starting to use this

as a screening question at Pearson.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. I think I need a drink now.

by Wan Ihite on Jan 25, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I voted Kaberle Go, and yes I am a terrorist.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jan 25, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

All due respect, man… and I love what Kabby brings to the table offensively… but he’s often a defensive liability, we have defenceman who can also effectively move the puck and are stronger defensively, and we need help in so many other areas that Kabby’s more of a luxury that we can’t really afford right now. I’m not saying give him away, but if Burke can find a team willing to overpay for him, I think he has to make that deal.

If that makes me a terrorist… well, I’ll at least spare you when I put my plan of evil-doing in motion!

leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.

by stucky on Jan 25, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I voted go

Go spend your shiny kabby nickles and buy yourself a nice young playmaking prospect to help Kessel out, get a return on that investment. I’d like to point out when your trade Kaberle you need 2 players in return for him, not just 1 so your going to need more than just a good draft pick based on all your deficiencies.

by Icion on Jan 25, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

The biggest thing for me, is culture change. I just want to see all the guys who have been here through years and years of losing gone. The dressing room and the franchise need fresh faces with new outlooks on the situation.

Poni, Stajan, Kaberle are the ones IMO that need to be dealt, not because of their play neccessarily but for the reason stated above

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Jan 25, 2010 11:37 AM EST reply actions  

Kaberle out as he does little to help this team defensively.
Stajan out as he is yet another 2nd line center which the Leafs have too many of.
Poni out as he can fetch a good draft pick at the deadline, and because I’ve never liked his play.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jan 25, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with both of you. Poni seems to have realized that he is allowed to hit people, but it’s too little too late and I still have residual hate from the early years when he was Antropov part deux. Stajan I like, but Hagman’s a better version of him. Kaberle still seems to have that air of entitlement and frankly I don’t see him ever helping us win a Stanley Cup, so let’s get what we can for him.

"I will take the subway - we were on the subway last night...I'm not above riding the subway or riding on a bus, I don't care. As long as people don't hit me." --Ron Wilson

by Jo4nny on Jan 25, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Like the man said

if the price is right…

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 25, 2010 4:48 PM EST reply actions  

Not that I want him to go, but if we can get good value for him then…goodbye sweetcheeks

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Jan 25, 2010 4:53 PM EST reply actions  

There are four possibilities for dealing with Kaberle:

1) Trade him at this year’s deadline for presumably a 1st round pick this year
2) Trade him in the offseason for a 1st round pick next year
3) Trade him at next year’s deadline for presumably a 2nd round pick that year
4) Lose him with no return in free agency

It’s all about timing, and the sooner he is moved the better for the team.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jan 25, 2010 5:26 PM EST reply actions  

No option 5

Re-sign the guy?

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 25, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see that happening.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jan 25, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Burke: “Kaberle has been a great Leaf, he’s a great guy. He’s played well and hard for us, and has been a quality citizen.”
Kaberle’s agent, Rick Curran: “As corny as it sounds, he believes he is part of the solution… He’s been there and shared the frustration with his teammates when they’ve struggled at times, but he truly believes it’s just a matter of time before they enjoy some success and he wants to be there for that. It’s really nothing more complicated than that… It really doesn’t apply this year. It’s a moot point, (Kaberle) believes (the Leafs) have the ability and the potential to turn things around and he wants to be there when that happens. He has no interest in looking elsewhere for success.”

If they’re both telling the truth,it seems likely he’ll eventually re-sign at excellent market value. Believing you’re “part of the solution” means not ransoming your team with outrageous salary demands. If Kaberle’s next contract allows us to spend competitively on other players – absolutely, sign him, keep him.

by general borschevsky on Jan 25, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I like the sounds of that.

My art portfolio: www.ArtWanted.com/canadianmaple09

by CanadianMaple09 on Jan 26, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Can him shooting more be a stipulation in the next contract, then?

"I will take the subway - we were on the subway last night...I'm not above riding the subway or riding on a bus, I don't care. As long as people don't hit me." --Ron Wilson

by Jo4nny on Jan 26, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

The Leafs should make Kabby’s dad attend every game. Earlier this year he was at a home game and Tomas was obviously trying to score a goal for him, I think he doubled his shot total for the season.

by Mirinov's Nose on Jan 28, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

For some reason I picture Kaberle’s dad as looking like Gene Shalit

"I will take the subway - we were on the subway last night...I'm not above riding the subway or riding on a bus, I don't care. As long as people don't hit me." --Ron Wilson

by Jo4nny on Jan 29, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I would imagine that all the returns would net a bit more than that, especially next year’s return. I think a good prospect has to be added to each scenario at least.

by lordosis on Jan 25, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

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