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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

Future of the Toronto Maple Leafs Part 1: Pending Unrestricted Free Agents

Editor's Note: Say has a good summary of the Toronto Maple Leafs' pending unrestricted free agents as well as his thoughts about their possible value. Share yours in the comments.

Hello my fellow long-suffering Leaf fans!  This season is done in all but name.  We aren't making the Playoffs, and are unlikely to even play our way out of a Draft Lottery position.  I have been watching the Leafs since 1989 and this is by far the worst season(results wise) that I have ever seen. 

This team is bad, but I think it is actually better than the results show.  I am not going to make excuses or offer reasons for the lousy play.  This season has been Murphy's Law for the team - anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. 

This is one of a series of four posts in an attempt to gain some consensus in the community on how to build next year's team.

The first of the four posts will be 'Pending Free Agents'  in which we will discuss what to do with our UFA's this year.  The debate will center on their trade value, how much we would re-sign them for, or if we let them walk.

The second will be 'Pending Restricted Free Agents.'  The discussion will be based around if we should trade them, sign them(money and term), the possibility of other teams tendering offer sheets, and what role do we see them having on next year's team(Depth placement, another season in the Marlies ETC.)  Also, this is probably the best place to discuss our prospects and if any of them have a chance to make the Leafs out of training camp.

The third post is titled 'Players Under Contract.'  Here we will speculate on what should be done with our signed players - Trade them, buy them out/waive them or keep them.

In the fourth post 'Free Agent Frenzy' we will touch upon what might still be available and who could potentially be a good fit for our team. 

Please be aware that these posts are interconnected.  Although we are focusing on one thing at a time, be mindful that there is a big picture to consider.  This is a discussion on how we would like to see our team built.  Speculation is welcome - crazy deals and flights of fancy are discouraged.  Let's try to stay within the realms of reasonable possibility.

Credit where credit is due:   Basic information(Height, Weight etc) and other league info - TSN.  Cap and salary figures - nhlnumbers.com  Statistics - NHL.com  Marlies stats -torontomarlies.com

Star-divide

Before I get to our pending Free agent list let me first start by saying I did not include every player who's contract is ending at the end of the season.  You won't see any ECHL players and even many Marlie players won't be on this list.  If you feel I missed someone, go ahead and add him to the discussion.

Jonas Frogren  Position: D Age 29  HT 6'2"  Wt 194  Shoots L  Salary/Cap Hit:  .9/1.065(Not Counted-Marlies)

2008-2009

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI    

NHL           41    1    6      7    0       28         0           13:26

2009-2010

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

AHL           42     3    5     8     0        33            0       ?

My take:  Frogren was a victim of a changing of the guard.  He did get a pretty good look last year, but his fortunes changed when Schenn pretty much took his ice time away.  His signing by Fletcher ended up costing us a 4th round pick - look in the Dictionary under 'Farce.'  He wasn't that bad, but then again wasn't that good either.  He didn't stand out - which normally you would think is a good thing for his position - but he always seemed one step behind.  He was a great D-man in the SEL, but it hasn't really translated to the NHL yet.  With all the back-end signings in the off season, Frogren's fate as a Leaf was pretty much sealed.  Unless he gets a shot with another NHL club, he will go back to Sweden.  If we can get a 6th or 7th round pick for him - even if it is conditional that he signs - I am fine with that.  He will probably walk away for nothing.  He may be offered a 2 way contract to stay with the Leafs organization, but I doubt he will accept.

Mike Van Ryn  Position:  D  Age 30  HT 6'1"  Wt 198  Shoots R  Salary/Cap Hit:  3.350/2.9(Not counted LTIR)

2008-2009

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL           27    3    8     11   +2     14         2           19:37

2009-2010

Will not play - Injury

My take:  Ahh Mike.  At first you were an afterthought to most of us.  You were what we had to take back in the McCabe dump.  After looking a little deeper, we thought we actually got a pretty good player.  Unfortunately, the injury bug didn't bite you, you were swarmed by the little bastards.  If you want to see a list of Van Ryn's injuries, go to TSN because I don't have time to list them here.  If he had been healthy we probably would have only needed to sign one D-man this offseason.  Also, he could have taken some of the offensive load off of Kaberle and White - than again White probably would have remained as a forward.  So many possibilities.  He will not play another game with the Leafs.  Hopefully for him he can put together some sort of hockey career down the road - or at the very least have a good quality of life after hockey.  Mike Van Ryn, we hardly knew ye.

Garnet Exelby   Position:  D  Age 28  HT 6'1"  Wt 215  Shoots L  Salary/Cap Hit: 1.725/1.392

2008-2009

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL(ATL)  59   0     7     7    -2      120       0           16:43

2009-2010

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL(TML) 32    0    3     3    -5       40         0           11:12

My take:  Known League-wide as a big-hitter, he doesn't do much else.  He has some grit but he is best suited as a depth D-man.  Basically a throw in for Kubina's salary dump, he has been in and out of the lineup.  When he is at his best, the only time you notice him is when he levels an opponent skating down the side boards.  I don't see much of a future in Toronto for him as we still have a glut of guys on the back end under contract... as well as guys like Gunnarson pushing for ice time.  Blacker and Mikus might knock on that door over the next few seasons as well.  We may be able to get a 5th or a 6th round pick for him by the deadline, but I wouldn't be surprised if he just walks after this year - and promptly re-signs with Atlanta.

Joey MacDonald   Position:  G  Age 29  HT 6'0"  Wt 197  Catches L  Salary/Cap Hit: .65/.65(Mostly uncounted-AHL)

2008-2009

League     GP  W     L   OT/SL  GA   SV%   SO

NHL(NYI) 49   14    4     0         3.37  .901   1

2009-2010

League     GP  W     L   OT/SL   GA   SV%   SO

NHL(TML) 6     1     4     0           3.2   .892    0

AHL(TML) 19   6     12   1           3.37 .879    1

My take:  What is Joey Mac?  Is he a starter that's not good enough or a career backup?  His AHL numbers are even less impressive than his NHL numbers.  He had a good year(if you can have a good year) with the Islanders last year.  He had respectable numbers on a team that wasn't very good.  He was brought in just in case Jonas didn't turn out the way we thought or there was an injury to either him or Toskala.  He is backing up Reimer in the AHL right now and we can be pretty sure that's not where he wants to be.  I don't see him re-signing with the Leafs to play in the minors.  Personally, I don't think there is a market for AHL back up goalies as far as trades go.  Pretty sure he will sign with another team or go overseas next year to be a starter.  He is walking away for nothing - which is fine as we didn't have a lot invested in him.  Later, Joey Joe Joe Shabadoo.

Vesa Toskala  Position:  G  Age 32  HT 5'10"(yeah right)  Wt 195  Catches L  Salary/Cap Hit: 4.0/4.0

2008-2009

League     GP  W     L   OT/SL  GA   SV%   SO

NHL           53  22    17  11        3.26 .891   1

League     GP  W     L   OT/SL  GA   SV%   SO

NHL           24  7      11   2         3.64  .874   1

My take:  We had high expectations upon Toskala's arrival, but he didn't (or couldn't) live up to them.  He has been injury plagued since his arrival, but most Leaf fans have been more worried about his attitude.  His comments seem to indicate that he thinks he is doing a good job, even when it is obvious he is not.  I doubt Burke will offer him a contract to stay with the Leafs, which is fine by me.  Unfortunately, I don't think he has any trade value.  Goalies are notoriously difficult to move during the year as they are a need that is addressed immediately and not by trade deadline.  I'm sure there has been some, but I can't remember the last time a UFA goalie was moved this late in the season.  Time for a fresh start.  Picks back by the trade deadline?  I don't know what his value might be to other teams, but I know what value he is to ours.

Rickard Wallin  Position:  C  Age 29  HT 6'2"  Wt 185  Shoots L  Salary/Cap Hit:  .8/.8

2008-2009

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

SEL(FTD) 55    18  27   45  +7    56           ?           ?

2009-2010

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL          35     0     3     3    -7      18         0           11:57

My take:  Rumoured to have been signed as a favour to Gustavsson(possibly contingent on a deal) Rickard was billed as a shut down center to pivot our third line.  Again, it seems, the transition from the SEL to the NHL is a difficult one to make.  He has shown zero offensive flash and that would have been acceptable had he excelled in his shut down role.  You very rarely see him throw a hit and he is constantly being beaten in footraces and puck battles.  It seems as though he is lost out there - although some of that may be indicative of the Leafs poor play as a whole.  Unfortunately he has not been able to step up and prove he is a legitimate NHLer even on one of the worst teams in the League.  He has had his share of scratched games and now sees mostly 4th line minutes.  The experiment has failed in Toronto and the roster spot is too important to waste on a friend of the free agent goaltender.  I see little to no trade value as we approach the trade deadline - perhaps a conditional 6th round pick a la Brad May, I'd even take a 7th rounder, straight up.

Jamal Mayers Position:  R  Age 35  HT 6'1"  Wt 214  Shoots R  Salary/Cap Hit: 1.4/1.333

2008-2009

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL           71    7     9    16   -7     82          0          10:32

2009-2010

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL           41    1     4     5    -6      76         0           8:45

My take:  Another one of those Fletcher deals - a third round pick 2 years ago for Mayers.  As soon as this was announced I am pretty sure everyone in Leaf Nation was scratching their heads.  A third rounder for a fourth line role player?  Pretty sure we could have gotten someone to fill that role through free agency.  Mayers is a hard nosed player who can play good minutes but takes bad penalties at bad times.  He is an average middle weight when it comes to fighting, and he does play the game with passion.  It has been said he provides leadership and is good in the room.  These qualities are not enough when combined with his on ice contributions to justify offering him a contract in the offseason.  In my humble opinion, we need to get younger and at 35 Jamal doesn't bring that to the table.  I would be hard pressed to argue why Rosehill shouldn't get those minutes over Mayers.  Some team may be interested in his work ethic, grit and experience down the stretch.  We might be able to get a 5th, at best, for him.  Gettiing anything back would be a bonus - noticing a trend?

Wayne Primeau   Position:  C/LW  Age 33  HT 6'4"  Wt 225  Shoots L  Salary/Cap Hit:  1.4/1.4

2008-2009

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL(CGY) 24   0     4    4     -3      14         0           10:22

2009-2010

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL(TML) 37    2    3     5     0      24           0          12:57

My take:  Anton Stralman was going to be moved.  We had a glut of D-men and he wasn't considered bottom pairing material.  Add to this he had ample opportunity to show what he could do but failed to stand out.  He was no longer waiver exempt and had to go.  We traded a late round draft pick and Stralman for a higher round pick and Primeau.  I thought Primeau was just an afterthought and I wondered if he would see any time playing with the Leafs at all.  I have been pleasantly surprised with what he has brought as far as compete level.  He uses his size quite well and he is a better skater than was advertised.  He is injured right now and I have not seen a timeline for his return, so that could impact on what we do with him as far as movement/re-signing.  He is also a pretty good faceoff guy and seemed to be willing to go to the front of the net where other Leafs fear to tread.  This is the first guy on the list so far that I would consider offering a short term contract to.  1 or 2 years at about a million per would be acceptable in my mind for someone of his work ethic.  On the other hand, it wouldn't bother me terribly to see him go.  If he can get back to playing before the trade deadline, I think he could be worth a 5th rounder to a team who needs a third or fourth line center.  Either way, unlike most of the players already covered he is not useless.

Lee Stempniak   Position:  RW/LW  Age 26  HT 6'0"  Wt 195  Shoots R  Salary/Cap Hit: 3.5/2.5

2008-2009

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL(STL)  14   3    10   13  -3      2           0           19:35

NHL(TML)  61  11  20   31  -9      31         3           15:52

2009-2010

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL          54     14  13    27  -7      18          4          18:00

My take:  Stempniak was the last hurrah for Fletcher's run as interim GM of the Leafs.  He traded Carlo and Alex Steen to St. Louis for the Blue and White Ninja.  He seems like a guy who gets himself into the right position to score, but has a hard time capitalizing on most of those opportunities.  He has a pretty good one-timer but he tends to miss the net.  The term "high and wide" comes to mind when referring to a Stempniak shot.  Still, he has put up decent numbers over the past few seasons but has yet to reach his high water mark from 2006-2007 of 27 goals and 52 points.  People tend to forget that he is only 26 and is probably just entering the prime of his career.  This is one of those do we-don't we when it comes to trading or re-signing him.  The potential could still be there for regular 25+ goal seasons for years to come, the question is - does he fit into the long term plans of the Leafs?  The other question is:  how may players like him do we need and do we have a better option between free agency and our up and coming prospects?  Personally, I am leaning slightly towards re-signing Lee to a reasonably termed and priced contract(how much is up to the readers to decide.)  I don't think we have seen the best of Stempniak.  If he is not in our long-term future, I would think he should be worth a high 3rd/low 2nd pick as a rental player.

Matt Stajan      Position:  C  Age 26  HT 6'1"  Wt 200  Shoots L  Salary/Cap Hit:  1.75/1.75

2008-2009

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL          76     15   40   55   -4      54        5           16:55

2009-2010

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL           53    15   23   38  -1      30          7          18:46

My take:  Statistically, Stajan is on pace for more goals and less assists than last year.  He is also on pace for only a marginal drop in overall points.  Sure, he has seen an increase of almost 2 full minutes in ice time, but with the team performing the way they are, his stats are pretty good.  Pamplemousse will argue that Stajan is a #1 center.  I won't argue with him on that point, but the real question is:  Do we want him to be OUR #1 center?  I believe his best fit would be as a third line center on some of the better teams and a second line center on average teams.  Does this mean we should trade him?  Well, many feel that he has worn out his welcome.  I do have a nagging feeling that if we trade him he will automatically blossom into a 70 point guy.  Like Stempniak, he is only 26 and is characterized as a good team guy.  I don't think he deserves the bashing that we regularly dish out on him.  Let's face it, he played behind a pretty good center for most of his career.  For trade value I think he would net a high 2nd round pick, but should we trade him?  Is there another center of comparable age available that will give you the production he provides?  There may be a few, but would you be able to sign them for the term and money that Stajan might be willing to take?  If it is better for the team in the long run to trade Matt Stajan, than by all means you need to make that deal.  I'm not sure that deal is to be had.  Personally I think you could get him for a hometown discount and a decent term.  Yes, he has a raise coming to him but how much?  Some argue around the 3.5 million mark.  To be honest, I think that is pretty close to market value for someone of his age and ability.  We may be able to get him cheaper than that.  Also, even if we sign him he will still have marketability as he enters the prime of his career.  He may be worth more in 2 years time at his new contract than he is worth right now.

Alexei Ponikarovsky   Position:  LW  Age 29  HT 6'4"  Wt 220  Shoots L  Salary/Cap Hit:  2.5/2.105

2008-2009

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL           82    23   38    61  +6    38          5          15:47

League     GP    G    A     P   +/-     PIMs     PPG     TOI

NHL          54     18   17   35   +3    40          4          16:37

My take:  He is on pace for 27 goals and 52 points - an increase in goals but a drop in over all production.  Also his penalty minutes are already over what he accumulated last year.  He is only seeing an average of about 50 seconds more ice time over last year.  Poni is somewhat of an enigma.  He has had a pretty steady progression over the years, he's big but doesn't always use his size to his full advantage, he always has one of the best +/- on the team which can indicate defensive responsibility, but for some reason I feel there is more for him to give.  Perhaps my expectations are too high, but like Stajan I feel if we trade him he will have 5 straight years of 30 goals.  He's 29 and probably at the apex of his prime.  If he had one or 2 more years under a reasonable contract I think we might have been able to swing a first rounder for him.  Saying that, as a rental he should score us a good 2nd round pick.  The same question I asked about Stajan still applies:  Is it better for us to trade him now or re-sign him?  Do we have anyone who can step in and provide what he provides?  Do we have someone who can develop beyond what Poni has to offer?  These are the tough questions that Burke et al need to ask.  How about you?  What is your take on the situation?

Well, that ends the list of notable(and not so notable) pending Free agents.  Please make your case below on what we should do with each player.  If you are trading a player, please outline what you think we can get and why the trade is worth it.  If you are re-signing a player, provide what you believe is a fair price/term for said player - be prepared to defend your points with facts and reasonable conjecture.

I am trying to take the pulse of the Leaf fans on the direction this team is going. Part 2 will focus on what we should do with our RFA's and possibly which prospects have a chance of making the team out of training camp next year.

Thanks for reading this tremendously long post.

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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Comments

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Excellent analysis

Aside from my thoughts about Frogren (I think he should have been playing over both Finger and especially Exelby), I can’t say I disagree with most of your trade predictions. While I agree Stajan does get bashed far more than he probably merits, I want to see him traded in any case. It’s just a matter of starting over for me. I don’t know if he’ll continue to be a driving force in the future, but I want a fresh perspective. And I’m just tired of Stajan.

I guess that means I shouldn’t be too defensive about Poni either, despite liking him far more than Stajan or any other pending UFA. The only difference I can rationalize for Poni is that he plays on the wng. While incredibly streaky, the Leafs aren’t abundantly deep at all in scoring wingers, and the NHL as a whole don’t have a whole lot of reliable top-6 wingers. Of all the players, re-signing Poni at a reasonable rate is probably the only move I can support in terms of what players to bring back for next season.

Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell

by bkblades on Jan 27, 2010 5:17 PM EST reply actions  

Poni:

The good: Contrary to what Say has to say in the article, I think Poni has learned to use his size quite well over the course of this year and last. Sure, he’s not a dominant physical force out there, but he’s learned to go to the net with something of an edge while playing for a team that rarely gets the puck there at all. I can accept that Poni is not a prototypical power forward; as Steve said last night, he has 18 goals, so he’s doing something right. His defensive awareness also makes him the kind of guy that is good to have around, especially if his contract demands aren’t crazy. I realize that at 29, he may have peaked, but I don’t think that is to say that he will decline in production next year, especially if we can hook him up with a half-decent centre.

The bad: As I pointed out last night, and as Steve handily confirmed, Poni is the single worst marksman in our forward corps. He is the “high and wide” king of this team, and on a team where Lee Stempniak and Jason Blake are almost always on our top two lines, this is significant. Too many missed chances, Mr. Ponikarovsky. He’s never been very fleet of foot, although his solid positional play helps him out in that regard. Also, and I admit that this would seem out of character for Poni, he may ask for too much moolah. If that’s the case, we’ll have to take a 2nd rounder for him. I would be floored if we got a first for Poni.

by JP Nikota on Jan 27, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I would say that Poni’s worst drawback are the stupid penalties he takes. I don’t think we could get a 1st for him either, to be honest.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jan 27, 2010 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Definitely recently. The unsportsmanlike conduct penalty he took a few days back was unbelievable.

by JP Nikota on Jan 27, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

but he’s always had those horrible calls in the offensive zone as well.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jan 27, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

You should change the Info on TOskala for catches – you have it as L. I think it’s “no”

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jan 27, 2010 7:35 PM EST reply actions  

Karina, you have no clue how difficult it was to keep the jabs and insults on Toskala to a minimum.

I wanted this to be a serious post and not my usual sarcastic and satirical fare.

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 27, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah you did a really good job, too. Very even handed with Toskala, given the vitriol we spew about him here.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jan 27, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

also

this may be relevant to the discussion:

@andystrickland Word is Toronto Maple Leafs forward Matt Stajan recently bought a house in Toronto and would accept less money to stay in TO

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jan 27, 2010 7:36 PM EST reply actions  

League minimum it is!

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that both Stajan and Poni are worth holding onto, so long as the price is right. Hometown discount sounds like a good place to start.

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

hometown discount i’m ok with…market value i’m not.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Jan 27, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly.

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

He finally moved out of his parents’ basement!

Based on age, keep Stajan and Stemp, trade Poni. I’d like to see the Viking get another try. I also think Primeau is worth keeping, as a veteran presence.

by Leaf in Habland on Jan 27, 2010 7:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

#1 Centres Live in the own houses.

Are you listening Sidney?

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

This has got to be the only time

Anyone ever told Sidney Crosby to take advice from Matt Stajan, about anything, ever.

So Handsome.

by Archimedies on Jan 27, 2010 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent Round Up

I think that the Leafs will only look to keep Stempniak, Stajan, and Poni at the right price. Otherwise, it’s been nice knowing you.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Jan 27, 2010 8:06 PM EST reply actions  

That’s fair. I’d be more tempted to see what they’d fetch on the trade market. We need picks and prospects (well, more of them I mean), and I’d kind of like to see more younger and different players in the mix next year. I wouldn’t want to give them away, but if we can get good value then away they go as far as I’m concerned.

leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.

by stucky on Jan 27, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure that Stempniak can fetch much, to be honest, but he’s a good addition to the team.
Poni, I think, will be gone – I have a feeling his boneheaded penalties are taking their toll on Wilson. Also if we keep Stajan, what do we do with Grabbo/Bozak? Too many centers is a good problem, but would he be willing to take on a more defensive, 3rd line role? Is he even good enough defensively to do that?

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jan 27, 2010 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

From what I’ve seen of Stajan I’m not sure he’d be effective in a defensive, 3rd line role, in my opinion. He may have been tracking that way earlier in his career but his role as a more offensively-minded player has probably superseded that. Plus he’s quite soft as we know which is not an ideal quality for a defensive forward to have.

Ideally if we don’t keep him I’d like to offload him to a team looking for a 2nd line centre that is willing to give us a good return.

leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.

by stucky on Jan 27, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

if he can’t play 3rd line center, I don’t see a space for him unless it’s on wing. Grabbo and Bozak seem to have the top 2 center positions lined up. Unless we sign Stajan to a cheap contract and find a market for Grabbo next season.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jan 27, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

poni, stemp, stajan and primeau

are all welcome to play on my team in theory, but obviously, it comes down to price.

Of the four, Poni’s the one I want to keep most. I have no idea why. I think it’s because he seems to be doing good things on the ice, even when he’s not getting on the scoresheet. I can live with up to $2.5M

I think Stemps is beginning to come around (he’s about 1000 times better than when he first got here) and I think since his stats won’t be so hot again this year, he could be had for something in the range of $2M.

The elephant in the room is that the UFA market is, in general, quite poor this year, so maybe everybody’s price goes up.

by pevans on Jan 27, 2010 8:08 PM EST reply actions  

This elephant of which you speak makes me want to keep them that much more. I like those guys, and if they were not being relied on to carry the offensive load this would be a much different discussion.

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

granted

but does the lack of a better option really warrant spending the money on it? Short term i guess i’m fine with it. But every dollar we commit in July 2010 is a dollar we don’t have to play with if and when someone better comes along in July 2011.

We’re not going to compete for a Cup in 2010-2011 no matter what, so shouldn’t we be keeping our powder dry for after that?

by pevans on Jan 27, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

For sure, which is why guys like Stemps, Finger, and Exelby are gone. If we can sign one of either of the two to a short contract for low money at a time when there are not too many adequate replacements we can do it. But that might not be possible.

I’m so conflicted, we obviously suck, and we need draft picks, but what are the odds that the 2nd rounder we get for Poni ends up being a better player than Poni? Do we have nothing to lose at this point?

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Finger isnt gone, not for another 2 years anyway

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

My Bad.

In my mind he’s already gone.

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Does a shrinking cap and an overall lack of cap space in several markets reduce the effect of a thin free agent market?

Resident Capologist
Toskala Cap Counter - only $1,533,679 to go!

by clrkaitken on Jan 27, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Mike Danton is playing again in college hockey and we all know how much Burke loves college players. I bet he would play for league minimum.

Go Leafs Go!!!

by Another Good Kingston Boy on Jan 27, 2010 8:16 PM EST reply actions  

and I just realized he’s an unofficial fellow Kingstonian due to his recent time spent in our government subsidized housing.

Go Leafs Go!!!

by Another Good Kingston Boy on Jan 27, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Danton is the forward equivalent of Exelby IMO

"I will take the subway - we were on the subway last night...I'm not above riding the subway or riding on a bus, I don't care. As long as people don't hit me." --Ron Wilson

by Jo4nny on Jan 27, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Danton playing in the CIAU is embarrassing.

Don’t agree with much of what Cox says, but his article about that was spot on.

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I was really hoping he’d sign with the Flyers.

Leafs Rumination: hockey and sesquipedalianism.

by puckurgently on Jan 27, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Terrific Post.

Fantastic job, say; looking forward to the remaining parts of the series.

And I, for one, don’t think this post was long at all. :P

jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog

"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)

by jrwendelman on Jan 27, 2010 8:17 PM EST reply actions  

Shouldn’t you be writing another epic novel post somewhere?

leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.

by stucky on Jan 27, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks JRW, I tend to get quite verbose when I talk about something of interest to me.

You should have seen this before I cut it down. I could have went on and on about pretty much all those guys – had to keep it to reasonably-lengthed paragraphs.

I’ve done a little preliminary work on part 2, but getting stats for any hockey league that isn’t the NHL is distressingly difficult.

I hope to have Pt 2 completed by Friday at the latest.

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 27, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m just pulling your chain a little bit because I’ve been taking some crap over at MLHS for writing stuff that’s “too long.”

In truth, I’m a big fan of the longer form analysis like this. Blogs don’t just do this stuff better than print journos, they do it virtually to the exclusion of print journos. Your piece and 1967ers comparative examination of the Habs and Leafs are two examples TODAY of interesting stuff that comprehensively considers a topic of interest to fans. Anyway, seriously, nice job IMHO and keep it up.

jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog

"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)

by jrwendelman on Jan 27, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

Thanks to the Benevolent Overlords who have seen fit to grant me front page.

It’s almost like they know how much time we spend working on posts (hmm.. less than 3 hours, no front page… let me know when you hit 5 hours.)

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 27, 2010 8:57 PM EST reply actions  

Definitely a great example of what can be done in the fanposts.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Jan 27, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m too lazy and too married to run my own blog. This place allows me to channel my energies when I get my teeth into something hockey related.

also a quick question.. any way to turn off/modify the autosave feature? The darn thing saves like every 2 minutes and with the amount of tabs I have open doing the research it was just easier for me to do all the work i Word and export it in.

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 27, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfortunately not but if you copy it in from Word make sure to use the copy from Word icon (the clipboard with a W).

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Jan 27, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

that’s what i had to because of the formatting

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 27, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

A fine post, great summary. I assume that with the results we are seeing that there will be a great deal of turnover in the off season. Personally I’d like to keep Stempniak. I think as a 3rd line plugger/winger that can pop 15-20 goals and go into the dirty areas, he does it at an acceptable level. I think people forget that he maight be a likely trade candidate in the coming months as teams look as much for depth heading into the playoffs as they look for people to put them over the top.

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Jan 27, 2010 11:18 PM EST reply actions  

 Some of these guys provide, but being at the bottom of the league this year and out of the playoffs forever we need to move these guys and get both parties a fresh start.

by 6rick6 on Jan 28, 2010 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Bad teams don’t get better by trading players that still have 5-6 good years left in them and fill roles that aren’t easily replaced. If the Leafs could sign a 26 year-old that would lead the team’s forwards in scoring* and play on both specialty teams for a discount then I’d be all for trading Stajan. But they certainly won’t be doing that, and the return we would need to get from a team to supplement his loss likely isn’t coming.

If we’re talking about a guy like Poni, who’s in his prime already, or old role players like Primeau and Mayers, then it does the organization good to get what they can before their market value diminishes. But the fact that we’re losing now does not somehow make the entire team unworthy of contracts.

(In terms of team scoring, Stajan’s second in points per game behind Kessel. By 0.022, or two whole points over an 82 game season. They’ve also scored the same number of points since being separated)

by koopa kid on Jan 28, 2010 3:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Stajan taking hometown discount, medium term (1-3 years) and happy playing 2-3rd line role i’d be okay with him staying.

We’re eventually going to face facts – we’re not going to be able to trade all of these guys, we’ll be lucky if we can move 1 or 2 at the deadline. I’m not expecting any more than a 2nd round pick from this trade deadline, if that.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Jan 28, 2010 7:22 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s a much more reasonable expectation.

by JP Nikota on Jan 28, 2010 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d like to see a wrinkle from Burke in this: ID the guys you want to keep, let the them know that the Leafs would love to have them in 2010-11, trade them at the deadline for picks and then re-sign them in the off-season.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Jan 28, 2010 10:13 AM EST reply actions  

Poni

Over at MHH, we have been discussing a trade proposal involving Poni, for something like Liles, Svat and a 3rd.
Personally, I think Svats could do well as a Leaf. And what about giving you guys Clark, he’s doing fairly well this year.
 
 
What are some of your thoughts?

2009-2010 Avs: Definitely have fallen back to the pack, all the back to 1st in the NW. Life is good.

by Drakenlot on Jan 28, 2010 10:32 AM EST reply actions  

whenever Leafs are being considered for actual NHLers, thats a positive.

Liles is a pretty decent PP guy, but he’d be another defenceman on a team with plenty. Not whetting my appetite.
Svatos is an underperforming winger who has/had potential, but now is an unknown. Sorry, already enough of those over the years. He’s already 27, so not young enough to still be a reclamation project. If anything, he will be a Samsonov-type player who will probably bounce around until finding that one team where he finds a niche. Or he just buggers off to Europe after another disappointing season or two.

Unfortunately, Poni is probably our most marketable commodity. Especially when you hear the rumours of PIT/LA/CHI interest, and the off chance that one of their prospects could be had. 3rd round picks don’t have the fireworks we expect. Poni is definitely worth a 2nd, possibly a 2nd+, and even possibly a low, low, low 1st rounder.

by Death_By_Leafs on Jan 28, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Fine, you win

You can have Tucker as well. You forced it out of us.

2009-2010 Avs: Definitely have fallen back to the pack, all the back to 1st in the NW. Life is good.

by Drakenlot on Jan 28, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

well we are still paying him….

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Jan 28, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

i don’t think Svatos and Wilson/Burke would mix too well.

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jan 28, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Read my lips:

No more Matt Stajan. At any price.

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jan 28, 2010 10:51 AM EST reply actions  

id rather have stajan than grabbo

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Jan 28, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

grabbo rules

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Jan 28, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

he does

and, interestingly enough, he and Stajan are quite comparable on most of the Behind the Net stats.

Offensively, Grabovski is slightly higher in the +/- and pts per 60 minutes on. Strangely, Grabbo’s GA per 60 minutes on is better than Stajan’s, again, only slightly.

the penalties for per 60 on for both is again really close, with a slight edge to Grabbo (3.3 to 3.1.) However, the penalties against for when Grabbo is on per 60 is much higher than Stajan’s rate. But when it comes to penalties drawn and taken, Grabovski is miles ahead of Stajan. Grabbo’s penalties taken per 60 minutes is 0.2 while Stajan’s is0.9. Grabbo’s drawing penalites at a clip of 1.4 per 60 minutes on, while Stajan’s is 0.9. So basically, for every penalty taken by Stajan, he draws one. For every penalty taken by Grabovski, he draws 7 (if i calculated that right.)

I could go on, but I’m thinking someone should do an analysis on this as a fanshot. Someone with the time to do it that is (ie – not me…)

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jan 28, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

/scribbles down ideas for later this afternoon if her work is all done

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jan 28, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Ponikarovsky

As probably our most tradeable asset, there might be a little bit of a market for Poni on Mar 3. Like Howard Berger said this morning, he could easily play on the 1st or 2nd lines of most playoff teams.
PIT – WIth Kunitz out, he would be better than Chris Conner/some AHLer to play with Crosby & Guerin. He would also be an upgrade over Nick Johnson or Michael Rupp or Matt Cooke or whoever else they try and rotate with Malkin.
CHI – He’s an upgrade over Troy Brouwer on the top line with Toews/Kane.
COL – He could be a replacement for Hejduk in a top role, depending on how long Hejduk is out for.
FLA – Ditto for Horton.
LA – I know Wayne Simmonds & Scott Parse & Oskar Moller have tried to fill the hole left by Justin Williams, but Poni is probably an upgrade there.
MTL – When Travis Moen (7) and Glen Metropolit (10) are contributing goals, that should be a nice bonus. They should not be in the top-eight for your team and therefore significant contributors on offence.
NJD – Can always use some scoring depth as Bergfors hasn’t scored since Dec 30 (he’s 5th on the team) and Elias will be out who knows how long with that concussion.
PHX – Doan, Vrbata, Upshall, Prucha. Those are the guys in double-digits. Poni for a young centre prospect??? Yes please.

by Death_By_Leafs on Jan 28, 2010 1:10 PM EST reply actions  

Is this the same Berger that said Kessel was our only top 6 forward? What a maroon.

by lordosis on Jan 28, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

i know

i dont get how he doesnt notice his own contradictions when he goes from “salient hockey thoughts” mode to “deride & ridicule the leafs” mode….

by Death_By_Leafs on Jan 28, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Stajan

Hey – Stajan is actually on pace for 23 goals and 34 assists for 57 points.

.28GPG * 28 games remaining = 7.84 goals.

.43APG * 28 games remaining = 12.03 assists.

That puts him on pace for 57 points, two more then last year.

The Maple Leaf Outsider - How I Make Unemployment Bearable.

by Pamplemousse on Jan 29, 2010 1:43 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Truth

That’s why, despite some serious Stajan bashing (myself included), he actually does have some value.

2 55-ish point seasons in a row isn’t too shabby. Not first line material of course, but nothing to be ashamed of as an NHL player

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Jan 29, 2010 6:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Van Ryn

Friend of mine met Mike at a hunting course in London. Just got off Crutches. My friend got me his autograph on a Leafs hat for my birthday. Apparently a great guy. They were talking about the night Lucic put him through the glass. Mike tomahawked some lady with his stick as he went though. He also got soaked in beer. He wants everyone to remember he score a goal his next shift back.

by Redonred on Feb 1, 2010 5:33 PM EST reply actions  

I’ll be sure to mention it when I wish him goodbye. Shame he never worked out. He was a good player and definitely seemed like a great guy.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 2, 2010 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

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