STOP WHINING ABOUT THE KESSEL PICKS
by Death_By_Leafs on Jan 29, 2010 6:55 PM EST
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PrintKessel is going to be a great player, potting 35-45 goals a season. He's only 22 years old.
Two picks that are going to be turned into 18 year-olds who may or may not play in the next 3 or 4 years, and may or may not be worthwhile NHLers, are no reason to become despondent.
Don't think that Brian Burke has somehow screwed up the rebuild and we are already on course for JFJ part 2 and we'll never make the playoffs and we're always going to be losers and omg the team sucks and they will lose money and fold and the city will crumble and Canada will explode... Calm down.
Take a breath, and think about what we have.
On Kessel
In his debut with Toronto, he put up 21 pts (13G, 8A) in 22 games... which were played in 44 days. He started this season with no training camp. He had major surgery in the summer. If there's someone who can be excused for hitting the wall, it's him. With proper recovery and preparation, I have no doubt that next season we will all see something special in Toronto.
On Draft Picks
First overall picks have cachet, glitz, and glamour. They can be generational, franchise players. Or they can be high-level NHLers. Or they can be solid contributors. Or they can be merely roster filler. The picks Toronto has given up may be one of these, or they may be busts. But the importance of the draft doesn't stop after the first 5 players are taken.
In fact, for all the hopes that teams missing the playoffs can rebuild through the draft, the quality of your scouting staff is much more important than how high you pick. Toronto has been overhauling their draft staff over the last few years, from the successes of the JFJ years (Stralman, Stalberg, Mikus, DiDomenico, & Gunnarsson were all picked 5th round or later) to recent bright spots by the Fletch/Burke rollover (Champagne & D'Amigo might become steals). If you don't pick smart, it doesn't matter where you draft.
To see proof of this, come along with me to my companion article: How To Actually Draft.
PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.
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So 21 points in 22 Games right? how many has he had since?
First Picks are like 80% to pan out. The last 10 years the picks have been. Tavares, Stamkos, Kane, Erik Johnson*, Crosby, Ovi, Fleury, Nash, Kovalchuck, and Dipietro*.
The * indicate a “bust”, even though Dipetro is pretty good when healthy, and Erik Johnson missed last year, but is still young.
Also the #2s in those “bust” years were Heatley, and Jordan Staal (personally i thought Towes was going to be taken)
Finishing last or close to last is a solid way to bulid a team. Stop trying to tell yourself it was good to trade away the picks. Chances are those picks are going to be as good as Kessel (if they are picks in the top 5) or better.
It was a stupid move and Burkie is lying through his teeth when he says he would do that trade again even kbnowing what he knows now. If he is being honest, then i dont know if he is the right man for the job.
so the fact that he is proving to be a pretty good play maker and not a straight up goal scorer is a problem?
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 29, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that he’s supposed to be a goal scorer and cant score on the PP is a problem.
the fact that he only has 2 goals in 20 games is a problem.
The fact that we mortgaged our future to get him was a problem.
he is our future, he is a goal scorer and he is becoming a more well rounded non one dimensional player
would you rather have a 40 goal sniper or a 30 goal scorer who also has 50 assists and makes the players around him better?
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 29, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Last year he was one of the best even strength goal scorers (which is more important) and this year he was up there too before he hit the wall.
The future hasn’t been mortgaged. The Leafs have other picks, other prospects, and they’ll get more picks. They took a calculated gamble and we’ll see if it pans out.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I still make that trade – call me stupid if you like, but I’m pretty sure I am not.
Go below the surface -
also, the Leafs will finish in last? You know that with 25+ games to go? You must be psychic.
You may want to look back more than 10 years on the draft thing as well… nice sample size.
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 29, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously
in the last 10 years the game has changed. You cant buy teams anymore. Its all about drafting, and buliding solid young teams in the new NHL, that why i picked 10 years.
How does the game changing affect how good the prospects are?
If he gets 40 goals next year and none are on the power play, should you really give a crap?
5-4, let somebody else score… who cares 40 goals is 40 goals.
He’s only 22, most forwards don’t hit their prime until at least 25+
Do you know where the Leafs will finish next year? Boston isn’t guaranteed a top 5 pick next year by any stretch of the imagination.
What if the pick this year turns out to be Cam Fowler… the defenceman… do you really think he’s going to be a 40 goal scorer?
You are blinded by the mystique of the first round draft pick.
Yes they are important, but if you can get a player like Kessel and lock him up for basically ‘potential’ then you do it. Burke made the best deal available to him and got a young talented player – sure he might not be a ‘franchise player’ but how many NHL games have been played by Hall or Seguin?
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 29, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Its all about drafting
Yup, and drafting goes beyond the top five picks.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
So 21 points in 22 Games right? how many has he had since?
Like I said, I think fatigue is a factor for him now. We aren’t going to see the true Kessel until next season.
Also, he has the most shots in the NHL since the day he came back… just to think about something else
First Picks are like 80% to pan out. The last 10 years the picks have been. Tavares, Stamkos, Kane, Erik Johnson*, Crosby, Ovi, Fleury, Nash, Kovalchuck, and Dipietro*.
And the previous 10 years were Stefan, Lecavalier, Thornton, Phillips, Berard, Jovanovski, Daigle, Hamrlik, Lindros, Nolan. Thats 2.5 franchise players, 1 (Nolan) who was pretty good for a while, and a bunch of guys who could have been taken later or not at all.
Chances are those picks are going to be as good as Kessel (if they are picks in the top 5) or better.
But similar chances indicate that they might not be.
If those picks are as good as Kessel, then we still win the trade, as Kessel is 4 years ahead of them on the development curve.
I don’t think most people think Hall is a sure-fire franchise player. He might be a very good player for many years, but Seguin could end up with the better career anyway. You still have to make a choice and you could still pick the wrong guy. Kessel is a known quantitiy.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jan 29, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
We aren’t going to see the true Kessel until next season
And by this I mean to fully evaluate what kind of player we have, not blind faith that he is going to be a 80 goal superstar.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jan 29, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
and also there is no way to tell exactly where the picks will be, this years is looking like top 5, next years might be 23rd who knows
but then in 10 years time the best player in the draft might have been taken with the 20th pick out of both drafts
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 29, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts
Its true that the best player in the draft can end up being drafted 20th. But today prospects are being watched more than ever. Still some of them fall through the cracks, but its becoming less and less common.
yeah, and you are running a game on ifs and buts IF the pick gets hall IF hall becomes as good as Kessel IF next year they are as bad as they are this year
you cant bank on what might be one way and not be able to admit there is a good chance it could fall the other
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 29, 2010 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Your entire displeasure is based on ‘ifs’.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
You’re still trying to project 20 years into the future based on how kids look when they’re 18.
How many kids have been passed over because they were too small at 18, only to have a growth spurt at 19?
How many kids because have flopped because they were beasts at 18 playing against 17-20 year olds, but suddenly became average sized playing against grown men.
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I dont think hall is going to be a franchise player, but he’s going to be a very good player. Would you label Kessel as a franchise player?
Side note i think Seguin is going to end up the better player
and right now the leafs pick will get neither of those players
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 29, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, and? if you are going to judge how the team finishes based on where they are now, then you have to say they will be 27th
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 29, 2010 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t seen either kid play other than Hall at the WJHC so I don’t know but there have been tonnes of players that have looked good at this age that haven’t panned out.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Y'know
I like to bash Hall irrationally at times, but he’ll be a good player. However, he’s not going to be the “gamebreaker” everyone seems to make him out to be.
by Marc Pilgrim on Jan 29, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
It wasn't stupid
Burke traded 3 ‘maybes’ for one sure thing.
It could become stupid of course but not yet.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
It seems to be the League’s most competitive teams right now are loading up on first rounders: Washington, Pitssburgh, Chicago, etc. Whether or not they pan out is one thing, but it’s not totally random; the first round is the best place to draft talent. We’ve traded away 2 first rounders to bring in Kessel, yet if we take 4-5years to rebuild as many teams have, he could be gone just as/before we’re ready to seriously compete. I can’t help but think we should have taken it slow, drafted, and made the big acquisition 3-4 years from now.
He’ll be in his prime just as the team gets ready to compete in that scenario.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
22 year old top scorers don’t come available very often.
Had Boston managed their money a little better, Kessel wouldn’t have been available.
So, do you lock up the closest thing you have to a sure thing or hope that sometime down the road you get real lucky?
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 29, 2010 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
The value of goods exchanged in this trade is likely fair. Kessel is a 30 goal scorer with lots of potential. Boston will get a lottery pick this year and likely a mid-first round pick next year.
The bigger question about the Kessel trade remains timing: were the Leafs in a position to move that many draft picks (2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd)?
\
My answer is a resounding no.
I’d rather the Leafs hoard draft picks and prospects in the hopes of building a solid foundation that’s can be supplemented by UFA signings and trades once the team has shown that it can compete.
Obviously others disagree. But that’s the beauty of the barilkosphere – it’s not an echo chamber and there’s lots of room for informed opinon and healthy debate.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
The issue I have with the timing is that when you would have considered the Leafs ready to make that kind of deal there might not have been a Kessel-type of player available.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
My concern is that this team may take longer that Kessel’s contract to become truly competitive. If so, hoarding picks, then taking a risk on a Kessel-type player makes more sense. If a Kessel-type player isn’t available (and for 2 first rounders and a top prospect, I could see a decent impact player being available to a team that can afford the sacrifice in assets), then you wait a year and try again, with your core still signed.
What really bothers me is that teams like Washington, Pittsburgh, and Chicago have taken several years to become elite teams AFTER drafting a series of high picks. We have Kadri and Schenn, then traded away two opportunities to augment them for a player who might not be around when it’s time to go for it.
Basically, if this team was in the thick of a playoff spot battle, the Kessel trade looks better because the team looks closer to competing. But they’re a bottom 3 team, so maybe we should have waited a year or two to bring in a Kessel
Except for the part where Kessel isn’t available in 2 years.
The whole “timing” argument is something I’ve just never understood. If you’re a bad team and you get the #1 pick in what is regarded as a poor draft class, and the one after it is considered a fairly strong class, you can’t roll your pick over to the next year. You watch some damn tape and you try to make the best pick out of what’s available.
That’s basically a GM’s job; making sense of all the individual pieces of the puzzle lying around, and putting them together in a way that you can see the picture. The Kessel trade was made and was justiifed for the short, medium and long-term. Isn’t that what we wanted from our GM, someone who made deals while considering the impact of all three timeframes?
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But if the team has a half-decent foundation, the pick-up doesn’t have to be Kessel. It just has to be additionl offense to push the team over the hump.
The Kessel trade was made and was justiifed for the short, medium and long-term. Isn’t that what we wanted from our GM, someone who made deals while considering the impact of all three timeframes?
Would you offer that up in defense of 1,2,4 for Toskala?
Rask for Raycroft?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
No
But I don’t know that either one was close to what Kessel was when he was acquired. If I take the most negative vibe then JFJ traded for an almost 30 career-back up to that point and a Calder Cup winner that had had two bad years.
Not to mention that Rask was a known prospect already. He wasn’t just a pick.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I think the Kessel deal is defensible on a number of fronts, I just don’t think the argument that Burke considered all time frames is a very good one.
Clearly, JFJ did the same math on Raycroft and Toskala.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
If I were GM, I’d take that chance.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Someone pull up the last trade made involving a top-5 draft pick before the draft – GMs don’t just throw those around, regardless of who is available and who isn’t. If Burke believed he was giving up a lottery pick at least one of the two years, he wouldn’t have made the trade, plain and simple. I don’t see why that is so hard for all of you to understand.
We can all look at in retrospect and talk about whether it has been a good or bad deal, but at the time of the trade it seemed fair. You can’t fault Burke for Komi getting injured and Beauchemin forgetting how to play hockey. Or shitty goaltending. So seriously, stop whining about the Kessel picks.
by GerbersAdvocate on Jan 30, 2010 9:54 AM EST reply actions
I can fault
him for overvaluing Komi, and Beauchemin. He was thinking of the absolute best this team could be, their potential, and that was an 8th place team. He wasnt realistic.
I can maybe agree with you on Beauchemin, he hasn’t been as good this year as I thought he’d be. I do disagree with you on Komi. Other than at the start when he tried to do too much and be too tough to the point he’d take bad penalties, when he’s been in the lineup he’s been rock solid. The struggles we’ve had since our decent streak roughly coincide with Komi being injured, which shows his value and importance to the team.
leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.
I don’t think that he was necessarily unrealistic. Things didn’t just go worse than expected they went about as badly as possible.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I recall more than a few people being unconvinced by Burke’s moves and predicting this team would be a bottom-feeder, because the goaltending was uncertain at best, the defencemen were overrated, and the scoring was set up to be average at best with a lack of impact (ie. no-one is winning games in overtime for us).
I didn’t want to believe those criticisms, and it turns out I was being pretty naive; this team is suffering from exactly those problems, and the responsibility is Burke’s.
As for the Kessel trade; what’s done is done, and that’s fine. I like the kid, and I’m still watching the games (minus a bag on my head). But I’m pessimistic because this team is much worse than I expected, and I’m concerned that maybe it needed more emphasis on hoarding picks, and signing the odd FA, before pursuing a big trade.
My point is that if you were looking for the worst case then yeah the Leafs were headed towards 11-12 but you could find enough to think that they’d be 8-10.
They can hoard picks now because the ones that would have been used for the Kessel trade in 4 years have already been used. It’s more about time-shifting things.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Every prediction/statement Burke has made about the Leafs has been wrong.
Pugnacious and truculent? Nope
Players earning their jobs? Not so much.
Playoffs? This team might not qualify for the AHL post-season.
Burke’s judgement has been really lacking so far…
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
You also forgot burying underachievers in the Minors
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Jan 31, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
So Burke’s 0 for 4, instead of 0 for 3. Great.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Though the counter-argument to that is that Kessel was a top 5 pick himself. So there’s always that to consider.
The way I look at it is this: where would Kessel be drafted in this years and next years draft. He’s easily a top 5 (or higher) in both. Then you say, hey, would we finish in that position to draft him. Burke (and pretty much the rest of the planet) thought no. So then it becomes trading multiple picks to move up the draft to where Kessel would have been drafted, somewhat similar to what we did with Schenn.
Yes, we’re shittier than we expected. But that doesn’t change who we got. Which may very well be the best player of the bunch.
Also
the constant bitching and kvetching about Burke is really getting annoying. All the wacky conspiracy theories and the “ZOMG FIER BRUEK” stuff is getting progressively irrational as the season wears on.
What do you expect, the teams in the toilet and everything Burke’s promised thus far hasn’t come true. He was brought in to fix this team and yet they’re worse off in the standings than any JFJ team.
/Devils Advocating.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 30, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Doncha think all that is getting a bit to excessive and going way overboard?
by Marc Pilgrim on Jan 30, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
It would if we could find any evidence anywhere that someone suggested Burke should be fired. Have you seen or heard this from any at least semi-reputable sources?
leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.
I’ve heard some “fans” say to fire him, not on here but other places. But then again these are the same people who believe the media regarding the state of the team.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 30, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
That’s why I said semi-reputable sources. If those start to bring up that kind of talk then there’s a problem. Idiot Leaf-bashers who say fire Burke are just that, idiots, and should be completely ignored.
leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.
I don’t have TV so I watch all of the games online, and seeing the comments in the chat on JustinTV is liking stepping into a whole different world from here. Trolls outnumber actual fans at least 20-1, and those few fans are poorly misinformed and liable to spout crazy opinions that don’t make any sense. If didn’t visit here regularly I’d go insane.
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by CanadianMaple09 on Jan 30, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
That's the problem
the only people I hear this crap from are random assholes on the comments pages who think they’re a bunch of fucking geniuses as it regards to the Leafs. (Evidently, most of these twits seemed to have failed grammar in elementary school.)
by Marc Pilgrim on Jan 30, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
It’s only a problem if you let it be so.
leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.
Good point
I’m really getting tired of complaining about the idiotic blowhards on the comments pages, and I’m probably never, ever going to read any comments pages from this point on. They’ll never get the point, so why bother making those dumbasses see the light? They’re stuck in their delusional ranting to even give a damn.
by Marc Pilgrim on Jan 30, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
One Note
I’d consider re-naming the fanpost. ‘Whining’ is unnecessarily confrontational. ‘Complaining’ is probably better.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
I think there’s a difference between whining, complaining, and articulating concerns. One of the reasons I’ve been banging on about the Kessel trade over the past few days is because I’m pressimistic about it, and I’m interested in hearing other opinions.
Yes
The latter is always acceptable and encouraged.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Thought experiment:
If Burke hadn’t traded 2 first rounders for Kessel, and this team was just as bad of not worse right now, then at the Olympic no-trade deadline he pulled the trigger on the same deal, how would you feel?
I think I’d be horrified.
heres another thought experiment, if the leafs were where Burke and many people
thought the Leafs would be with their current team (say 9th-7th) would you pull the trigger on the Kessel deal then?
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 30, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Many people, including myself, thought the team would be better. Others accurately predicted a seriously lacking Leafs team this season. What I find disappointing is that Burke miscalculated so severely; I can afford to do that, I don’t get paid to be an NHL manager. But it’s pretty harsh to see the new guy ice a disaster he wasn’t expecting.
so many things went wrong that he couldnt predict, especially ALL of them happening, Gustavssons health AND vesa getting worse? every singe player taking forever to gel? every single kid regressing offensivly?
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 30, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe so
But that wasn’t the trade he did. And his saying he would do it again today is what he HAS to say. What else can he do, say on second thought, Kessel wasn’t worth it? Hell no, this way he stands behind his acquisition.
We’ve seen glimpses of Kessel being amazing. Then teams smartened up, and started double teaming him immensely. Add any other consistent offensive weapon on this team and it’d open up lots of room for him to again shine. Plus, missing training camp and the beginning of the season probably isn’t helping, as his conditioning isn’t where it should be. Next year I bet we see even more improvement from him.
The trade is done, we should just be happy we have one of the better young players in the league. He’ll be dazzling us for years to come.
Well he wouldn’t pull off such a trade at the deadline because a) the timing to put together that kind of deal wouldn’t be right and b) he knows he’d get eviscerated by the press and fans. He’s not afraid to make tough decisions and face heavy criticism, but as far as I know he’s not a masochist.
leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.
It would depend on what Kessel had done during that time.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
The good teams of today were built on the draft.
Burke fucked up, plain and simple. Nothing happened like he thought it would, and now Chiarelli is about as happy as he can be. It’s a shitty situation.
All we are is dust in the wind
Ball.
One reason why I didn’t like the deal was that I believed that it was bad timing on Burke’s part to trade those picks. It’s good when you have the foundation, but not when you just started a “rebuild”. I would not have done the trade, even though Kessel is appealing, until I can tell that the team is ready to become Cup contenders. A lot of people seemed to have been too optimistic after last season’s showing of the Leafs, but we have to realize that they were highly overachieving with little pressure.
Another reason why I wasn’t a big fan of the trade, especially in the state Toronto sports in general were at, was that it would place a ton of pressure on the team. The Blue Jays not making it since 1993, the Raptors having that horrid 2008-09 season (though, hopefully, they continue this flash of dominance), the Leafs not making the postseason since 2004, etc. The fans are getting impatient and, with no 1st round pick to look forward to, more restless.
I shall wait and see how those picks turn out. I just hope Kessel turns into that 40+ goal scorer that everyone is envisioning him to become. I dunno…
I think that the pressure that you bring up really wasn’t taken into account that well by any of us but most importantly Burke.
We all saw and joked that the team collapsed when they most needed to step up to the plate and as soon as the deal was made the message the team got was that they needed to compete for the playoffs.
Mix in the youth of some players and the big contracts coming in and the contract year players and it was clearly too much for them.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
We need a franchise player, Kessel will never be that
Agreed: The Leafs need a franchise player.
Agreed: A top draft pick has a chance to be a franchise player.
Agreed: Kessel is not a franchise player.
Agreed: Bad trade.
Of course there is a chance that if the Leafs picked Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin that they could be the next Alexander Daigle – but they could also be the next Tavares or Stamkos. Kessel is a proven 30 plus goal scorer and will likely never be more than that. But he will never be a franchise player and the Leafs, given their sorry state, needed to take a chance on getting one and have lost that chance for a decade and the team will suffer.
All we can look forward to now is heading down the long road back to the middle.
We don’t want to make the playoffs Mr. Burke, we want to win the Stanley Cup. Don’t build a team that might make the playoffs and win a couple of games.
Build a team that can go all the way or don’t build one at all. The Kessel trade was a placating trade for ownership and fans. Didn’t work.
You wanted Tavares? You have to get Hall or Seguin. Now do it and do nothing else.
Franchise players not absolutely necessary
2009: PIT = Crosby/Malkin - yes, they are good and are the centrepiece of the draft high mentality
2008: DET = Who is the franchise player picked with a top overall here??
2007: ANA = Getzlaf was the centrepiece. Giguere/Niedermayer/Pronger/Pahlsson all were not picked in the top 5 by the Ducks. None was a Duck lottery pick.
2006: CAR = E-Staal was the straw that stirred the drink. Weight & Recchi made the drink awesome
2004: TAM = Richards/St Louis/Khabibulin/Boyle/Lecavalier were all critical. Only one of them was a lottery pick
2003: NJ = Marty was not a lottery pick. Stevens was, but not by the Devils. Niedermayer was a key component and a lottery pick by NJ.
So out of the last 6 cups, there have only been 2 that were absolutely carried by their franchise players. 2 more had key players who were lottery picks, but had just as many pieces arrive later in the draft or by trade/free agency.
Further, out of all of these teams, how many have been consistently competitive at the highest level? Only Detroit & Pittsburgh. Opposite mentalities – one was tank for a few years to amass grand talent and also get really lucky and win the Crosby sweepstakes;; the other was find players through various means who can fit into our system, and develop them better than anyone else could have expected.
So your logic that lottery-pick franchise players have to be in place to win a cup is somewhat flimsy.
And if, like me, you want the Leafs to be regularly competitive for cups, then again there is missing information that lottery players can repeatedly bring your team to the cup.
Go get the Brodeurs & Sakics waiting around in the middle & bottom of the draft. Fuck Luca Cereda and every other wasted opportunity.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jan 31, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
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Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- Brodeur, Parise lead Devils to 4-1 win over rattled Rangers; East final tied 2-2
- Brodeur, Parise lead Devils to 4-1 win over rattled Rangers; East final tied 2-2
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