#Leafs put Jeff Finger on waivers
OH HAPPY DAY THANK YOU NICK KYPREOS
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Karina
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WOOOOOOOOO
TAKE THAT STUPID MORAL CODE
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 12:14 PM EDT reply actions
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
And now it’s from Bob MacKenzie.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Unbelievable!
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Oct 12, 2010 12:15 PM EDT reply actions
Come on, Sather! Take him!
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Oct 12, 2010 12:17 PM EDT reply actions
You mean Holmgren, the guy who likes overpaid defensemen?
In Lou We Trust: Freshly signed to the last 15 year deal in the history of SBNation
If the quality of my posts begin to get better, it's because i'm doing steroids.
by Kevin Sellathamby on Oct 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice nice, very nice.
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Oct 12, 2010 12:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Dan Mangan?
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 12, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
wow, wasn’t expecting anyone to make that connection.
but yes.
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Oct 12, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
:D
That album was bloody fantastic. Anyone who doesn’t like that album is an idiot.
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 12, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks that Dan Mangan is alright.
Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?
Guess who has two thumbs and is seeing him in Toronto later this month. :D
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Oct 12, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
nice
I may try to take my wife if she’s around (she travels a lot).
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 12, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
About Time.
"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!
Friggin' right
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
by maplestirup on Oct 12, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright, let’s be serious for a second. Did Nick Kypreos actually break this story? That’s more unbelievable than the story itself.
Either way, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
I HATE THAT MAN
I LOVE THIS NEWS
Pumps out more male with one thrust of the pelvis than the United States postal service over the last 146 years.
Can’t wait to hear how Burke gave Finger an honest shot at making the club, in the first three games, from the pressbox.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I can’t seriously believe you’ve somehow managed to pour water on the happy day that is Jeff Finger Waiver day!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I’m very happy the Leafs have cap room. I’m just really looking forward to hearing how Burke spins this one.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
It will be hilarious
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
by maplestirup on Oct 12, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
His lawyer-speak will be magnificent.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Most likely
if i were him, I’d lean on what he said before where “We’re not afraid to bury money in the minors” line.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
heh
well, if you buy the story, Finger was hurt, so he couldn’t play those games and try out. I think Burke would have let him try and make the team if he wasn’t.
Finger barely played in the preseason, when there was no reason NOT to play him – no roster or salary cap restrictions, or whatever. So the only reason he didn’t play is because he was hurt, so I’ll buy that explanation.
So Finger’s paid 3.5 mil to play on the Marlies for this season and next season. Oh well, about time MLSE starting flexing their cash-muscle a bit.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d bet we go through this again next year, because he’ll have to clear waivers again.
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noone’s going to want him at 3.5 million, even if it’s only for the season.
only if someone at MLSE has an aneurysm will Finger tempt the re-entry waivers.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Finger has to be waived to to the AHL every year of his contract.
Same for Wade Redden.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You misunderstand. The Leafs will have to waive him again next season to send him down.
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
In understand perfectly. And noone will want him next year either, even if his contract ends in 2012, as he’s not worth a 3.5 mil cap hit. And any drama and suspense will be gone as the Leafs have already done it this year.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
but someone may bite next year at re-entry waivers as the claiming team would only have Finger on their books for $US1.75M for one year.
Re-entry waivers would be a middle finger to Leafs fans everywhere. No reason to sacrifice cap space other than $$$s for a massively profitable franchise.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
ok, maybe I don’t understand.
so will he have to clear re-entry waivers over the summer?
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
no. When training camp re-opens next September, he will have to clear waivers again to be sent down to the Marlies because he has an NHL contract.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
ok thanks. so then it doesn’t matter. either another team has him or MLSE eats another 3.5 million. chump change for them.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, me too. I don’t see anywhere that re-entry waivers becomes an issue, when we have Mikus, Holzer, Gysbers and others that can come up on an emergency call-up basis.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget the Wookie!
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Which one is the Wookie again?
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Aulie
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Aulie. I know you said “and others”, I just like writing “Wookie”.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
oh yeah, good call. is he healthy again? would he be ready for an NHL look do you guys think?
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t really notice him in the game yesterday, which is good for a defensive D-man.
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I heard he got in a fight in the first game? Protecting Kadri?
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Kadri got into a knee-on-knee and Aulie fought the guy who hit him
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds truculent enough to me.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya know who caused this? SkinnyFish.
In the FTB earlier:
You don’t trade Finger and Lebda. You man the fuck up and waive their asses to the AHL
Burke read it, said "I’ll be damned if people are going to question my ability to “man the fuck up” " and waived Finger.
applause
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
why would we waive Lebda?
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
they don't
Somebody floated the possibility of Lebda’s signing as a means of pushing Finger down the depth chart, giving Burke a legitimate reason for waiving Finger.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
and Shoalts seems to be saying that Lebda’s returning from his injury is just what let Finger get waived.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
makes sense.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
by maplestirup on Oct 12, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, you’ll find out more and more how fitting that name is for Lebda.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You can tell it’s a photoshop because there’s too many people in the stands
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by clrkaitken on Oct 12, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, at least we don’t have to pretend that Jeff Finger is on waivers. Why? Cuz Jeff Finger is on fucking waivers!
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
by maplestirup on Oct 12, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well in that case, there are WAY too many people in the stands!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
that looks like SkinnyFish in the stands to the right of finger
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 12, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I have loads of respect for Cliff Fletcher but he sure made some curious moves as interim-GM.
He did acquire Grabbo, but just about everything else is questionable…
Tucker
McCabe
Frogren (oops)
Finger
Hollwegg
and so on…
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Well, the guy was 453 when the Leafs re-hired him.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
by maplestirup on Oct 12, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The cupboard was bare. Most of the people Fletcher picked up were place-holders.
I liked Frogren. Hollweg was an embarrassment. The McCabe deal could’ve worked out better if Van Ryn hadn’t been steamrolled by Kostopoulos.
Stempniak pisses me off so much.
by general borschevsky on Oct 12, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If you look back at his tenure, in a rebuilding period he managed to trade away an entire years’ worth of draft picks.
A first, second and third to move up for Schenn.
A third for Mayers
A second for Grabbo
Included a fourth in the McCabe deal+
Lost a fourth because of the Frogren signing
A fifth for Hollweg
At no point did anyone in MLSE stop and say “Wait, if Fletch is just setting the table for the next guy, why is he trading all our picks?”
It’s frankly amazing that everyone directs their vitriol at the coulda-been deals for the Muskoka 5, and the draft picks Burke traded for Kessel, yet this is conveniently forgotten. How much further along would we be if we hadn’t wasted picks on guys like Hollweg?
Resident Capologist
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Fletcher gets a pass because of Doug Gilmour.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, his hand was forced in the McCabe deal and there was no way he would get market value. Was a total salary dump.
Plus, who’s arguing with the Grabbo and Schenn moves?
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Lots of people will argue against both of those moves
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
like greg brady
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
fuck greg brady. i had to unfollow him on twitter because i couldn’t stand his opinion anymore.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
same
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
not surprised, he wouldnt shut up about the leafs trading up for schenn when myers would have been available
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
hind sight makes all of us geniuses
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m listening to 590 for the first time in years, this brady guy sounds like a loser who thinks he’s smarter than everyone but has never seen a girl naked in his life.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
Pretentious beyond believe. And it’s like “who the fuck is Greg Brady?”
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. I usually don’t mind people who don’t always know what they’re talking about., cause nobody knows it all. Lord knows I don’t.
But Greg Brady knows jack shit and leads on like he’s THE authority on sports.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
Greg Brady once called me retarded.
Him going to the FAN was awesome, I can finally listen to the games on AM640 again.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
ridiculous that he would use that term. That’s pretty harsh
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s a bitter old man now. I’m guessing Peter and Bobby laid into him a lot when they were teenagers.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s unreal. Nothing more awkward than watching him on OTR with a couple ex-NHL’ers. I’m hoping a retired player will jersey him on-air one day.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
NIEDERMAYER AND LUONGO!!!1
Let’s watch Tyler Myers wilt this season and then ask me which you’d rather have drafted.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
What about
foresight, or sight beyond sight?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Grabbo for a second is worth it.
Schenn for 3 picks is not.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
correct!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
3 picks for Schenn? What did we not use a first round pick on him? One we already had? I see the cost of upgrading our first (7th overall) to a 5th overall cost us a 2nd and a 3rd round pick. Would of Schenn whom was thought as a the best available player at that point in the draft really be there at 7th? In hindsight, we can say that such and such were available and the decision to move up was an unwise one but at the time it sure as hell was the best option to the Leafs. Still people, it Luke Schenn we’re talking about here, not Yashin.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
(in case it slipped past, I was agreeing with Jared)
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Leafs traded 3 picks in exchange for one. Leafs used the one pick to draft Luke.
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
That’s a good point. The fact that we got a first back does not negate the fact that we had to use another first — our own — as part of a package to get that first in the first place. First. I know people have given Cox a lot of crap in the past about this distinction, but in this case I actually agree with him.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
We traded a 2nd and 3rd to move up two spots.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Same thing, different words.
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
It’s semantics. We used three assets to swap for a better asset. Just because two of those assets are similar does not negate that fact.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
No but you frame it as we gave up something really valuable and gloss over the return as being marginal.
“We gave up a first, second and third to draft Schenn!”
“We gave up a first, second and third and only moved up two spots!”
Pension Plan Puppets*
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That’s not what I said! I’m not making any judgments on the value of the return, I’m just saying that we traded three assets to get one asset in return. That’s it.
I didn’t say we “only moved up two spots” in a negative sense, I’m saying this is what we did to move up two spots.
Because it involves the Leafs it’s impossible for us to look at this without some kind of subjective tone or perspective, to colour the semantics of the deal. But objectively, to me, that is what we did.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m saying this is what we did to move up two spots.
We didn’t give up three picks to move up two spots. Thanks for agreeing with me.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Huh? If we didn’t trade three picks to move up two spots, we would’ve been picking fifth and seventh.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I would like to go into business trading things with you.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
This was a stupid debate then and it’s a stupid debate now.
You can look at it as you paid a 2nd and a 3rd to increase the value of the asset you already had.
Or you can look at it as you exchanged 3 assets and got 1 asset of greater importance back in return.
Either way, you start and finish at the exact same spot. You started with the 7th pick, a 2nd and 3rd. you finished with the 5ht pick. Does it really matter how you describe how you got there?
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
That is exactly what I’ve been trying to say, but failing massively at it. I’m not trying to be thick or anything, I just think it’s a matter of semantics either way. You can spin it either way, but the result is the same.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Saying we “gave up three picks” works to purposefully obfuscate how completely fucking worthless a 2nd and 3rd are by including the first we gave up to overexaggerate their importance.
To MOVE UP two spots we moved a 2nd and a 3rd. To draft Schenn fifth overall we used our first 2nd and 3rd.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Which is different from “we gave up three picks to draft Schenn”.
“We gave up a first rounder to draft Kadri” is a stupid thing to say and you know it.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
To Toronto Maple Leafs
1st round pick (#5 overall) in 2008
To New York Islanders
1st round pick (#7 overall) in 2008
3rd round pick in 2008 (#68 overall)
2nd round pick in 2009
That’s the transaction. If anyone tries to tell you that something different happened tell them they are a fucking moron.
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
No I think (or I hope) its not so much the path which got us here but rather was it the right one… I say it was, so far.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
We exchanged 3 picks for 1.
We didn’t LOSE a pick but that was the exchange… opportunity loss.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
which supports my sometime thesis that MLSE has never been and never will be interested in a long term rebuilding, even though they can afford it, and that this is exactly why they hired Burke – as another quick-fix solution.
Fletcher knew his days as manager were numbered anyway. what reason did he have to trade away all those picks? none, except a “quick fix” was the direction he was getting from MLSE. He was still a marionnette.
Something else besides the Chicago success for the “tanking” haters to chew on: While we’ve been celebrating our two wins, so has Edmonton.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Edmonton stole Eberle late in the first round. Other than that, two bad years for MPS and Hall.
They still have a huge issue on defense, which is being hidden by their quality, veteran goalie. Great goaltending will make a lot of issues get swept under the rug.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Like Cujo’s first stint in T.O. and Belfour
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Oct 12, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
MPS was taken at 10th over all, he wasnt exactly a lotto pick, the oilers have really only had one terrible brutal year
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
True. And MPS hasn’t really proven anything yet either. Let’s give those kids at least the first full season before deciding they’re on the right track yet.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
when the tanking debate rages, I always hear about some other tanking team “stealing” a 1st liner/1st pair D in the draft.
guess what? you need lots of picks to increase your chances of unearthing a gem.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Datsyuk, Franzen and Zetterberg are all still pretty good
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, plus the above named arn’t exactly spring chickens, still, all pretty good later round picks
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Rafalski is pretty good too even if he’s a bit old. Kronwall as well.
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Kronwall is similar to Coliacovo, without the bone-itis.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I have faith Detroit will live on. They can survive with Rafalski & Kronwall until some awesomely-developed guy in the minors comes up
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Detroit will fall to earth. I don’t think they’ll completely fold up like the Penguins and bottom out with a bunch of AHLers playing for a season or two, but they won’t remain in the top of the league for much longer.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll give them a few more years of serious competitiveness, I’m not sure a retooling rather than a rebuilding is completely out of order.
If they shed some of the oldest vets (Franzen, Lidstrom) and get some younger-ish talent, I don’t foresee massive issues. Maybe not cup favourites much longer anymore, but not favourites to miss the playoffs either.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
see, i think they’re already in the “few more years” part of their competitiveness. In a cap environment (which might get even more stringent in the next CBA as afar as front loaded deals and waivers go) I’m not sure they’ve got much left on the farm. Justin Abdelkader (sp?) is a decent 3rd liner, and Ericsson who’s almost more famous for being a 291st overall pick than his actual play on the ice…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Ericsson was getting some harsh words from Babcock this preseason
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You could have said they would suck at goal without Hasek, and Osgood stepped up. Osgood sucks now, but Howard is coming up.
I don’t buy it; they’ll find someone else. I’d kill to have the Leafs be managed like the Red Wings.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
uh, no he doesn't
2009-2010, .924, 2.24 GAA, 35 wins, 17 losses. in his rookie year
http://redwings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8470657
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Good team in front of him…
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Also refer to: Leighton and Nittymaki from last year
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Oct 12, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
wasn’t Nittymaki in Tampa?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops, you are correct, that’s who I meant.
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Oct 12, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
ahhhh yes
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
A couple of years ago, I’d’ve said that I could see Kronwall stepping up and taking that #1C role, but now… not so sure.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, indeed I do
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Fletcher traded away a pile of guys for picks (Gill, Kilger, Belak) he then spent all those draft picks on the equivalent of sawdust and old Spackle (Hollweg, Mayers, sweeten the McCabe deal).
he also bought out Tucker and Raycroft. The former is understandable, the latter should have been waived.
Grabbo and Hagman were his only decent acquisitions. I’m not sold that burning picks to lend Schenn was worth it.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Schenn at #5 looks like a good pick. Only talent left after him is Filatov (flight risk), Colin Wilson (soft spot for him), and Tyler Myers.
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I’d also add Josh Bailey, who looks like he’s coming into his own on the Island.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Possible. He seems like a project.
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2nd line forward vs 2nd pairing defenceman. Coin toss.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Toss that coin in two years when Luke Schenn is hitting people so hard they explode into flames.
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by Chemmy on Oct 12, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed. I’m not ready to say Josh Bailey is a better talent than Schenn. I’ll still take Schenn.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Colin Wilson is gonna be really good methinks…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Already is
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by Chemmy on Oct 12, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, he’s got crazy talent. Though Nashville still isn’t sold on him. I expect him to get traded before he hits RFA status and then blossom on that squad.
Certified Grabbo Lover
really?
I thought Nashville had him playing as their 1C this year
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Nashville moves at a glaciers pace when it comes to their prospects. I don’t see Wilson going anywhere for a while, if at all.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the talk before the season, but they had him playing on the 3rd line in their first game.
Certified Grabbo Lover
ahhhh
Oh Barry Trotz
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Trotz is just unwilling to stick his neck out for a prospect.
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by Chemmy on Oct 12, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
haha
zig’d.
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
IT’S FUNNY CAUSE HE DOESN’T HAVE A NECK
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m stealing this joke. I will use it often and I will not cite you at all.
Like Rick Bosetti my goal in life is not to do well but to piss on things.
i assume you are a “journalist” for the Toronto Sun?
by sodonis on Oct 12, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think Wilson will ever be a star offensive talent, but he’s a winner. Will probably wind up as a damn good #2 center in the NHL.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
never heard of him.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
more like the next Jordan Staal
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I miss Staal :(
"It reminded me a lot of when I was in Pittsburgh and we were growing together as a group. The Leafs are going through the same thing" - Colby Armstrong
One team.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously
this is getting kinda old
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
teenagers these days
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
with all their justin bieber and what not
.
by PassivelyTruculent on Oct 12, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re not all Penguins/Bieber fans.
Some of us even have souls!
I'm tired of the Leafs half-assing it like a chick with one butt cheek.
by happiergilmore on Oct 12, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Just out of spite, I’m going to have three teams. Maybe five.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
GO KINGS!!!
Although I guess that with BabySchenn and Poni, they might as well be the Leafs
"It reminded me a lot of when I was in Pittsburgh and we were growing together as a group. The Leafs are going through the same thing" - Colby Armstrong
I’m thinking Oakland. I’ve always been fascinated by the Seals.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Boy those Jet’s did mighty fine last season surprised the league, I just find it troubling that they’re playing all their pre-season games in Phoenix.
.
by PassivelyTruculent on Oct 12, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
All their post-season games last year too.
It makes me think something’s brewing.
Like Rick Bosetti my goal in life is not to do well but to piss on things.
Fear not! It’s not like the league’s THAT stupid.
.
by PassivelyTruculent on Oct 12, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Luke Schenn would totally beat Tyler Myers in a fistfight.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Could he reach Myers’ face?
I’d like to see a Zdeno Chara vs. Tyler Myers fight one day
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
schenn would grab him by the crest and drag his face down to beating level
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Twin Towers!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on, it’s not like we could have landed a Vezina winner with our existing pick…
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Old meme about how Tyler Myers was so good he won the Vezina too.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just trying to signal that I’m not in the hindsight brigade on that one.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there anything easier than criticizing a draft pick 3+ years after the fact?
For the record, I’m pretty sure MPS was the preferred pick around these parts. Who did the site take in the mock draft that Mirtle ran?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I remember being shocked about the Kadri pick—MPS did seem the consensus—but I know so little about Juniors that I can’t criticize.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I know so little about Juniors that I can’t criticize.
Repeat ad infinitum.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yeah, I have an overall strategy—in the late rounds, pick the little guy who scores a lot—but on individual players I can’t contribute anything, so can hardly criticize after the fact.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a ton of people (maybe some on this site) knew almost anything about Kadri when he was picked.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2009/6/15/909742/2009-mock-nhl-entry-draft-board
Brayden Schenn, MSP, Cowen.
Obviously Schenn was off the board so
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Thank fucking God we didn’t take Cowen
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
Sort of reinforces the “hindsight is 20/20” thing, huh?
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Found it – Leafs took MPS in Mirtle’s pool. Kadri fell to 10th and was grabbed by the Sens.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Brian Murray wishes that was reality.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
who did Edmonton end up with?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
THAT WAS THE KID THEY WANTED!
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/tags/2009-nhl-mock-draft
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that thread reminds me of how hilarious we are
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
A first, second and third to move up for Schenn.
Damien?
We gave up a second and a third in order to improve our 1st round pick. If I wanted to switch seats with you at SkyDome, and I gave you 20 bucks would you say that I gave you 20 bucks AND a ticket to a baseball game? But I still have a seat, and it’s the better seat now. It’s called an upgrade.
Swapping a lower first for a higher first is obviously not an equal trade. A second and a third is the cost of that upgrade. Suggesting we traded a first round pick to do that is a bit misleading.
by general borschevsky on Oct 12, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. That’s how I see it.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
But you are giving up a ticket. If you weren’t, you’d end up with two tickets.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
But either way, deal or no deal I would still be at the game. All we did is move up closer to the good action for some extra (secondary picks) cash in this case. You’re making it sound like we are getting an extra ticket when what we are saying is we are exchanging in addition of an extra cost to getting better seats.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
This debate is getting a bit too esoteric for me. Suffice to say, I’m not making a judgment on whether this was the right thing to do or not. All I’m saying is we traded a certain number of assets to get another asset back. The outcome does not change what we traded.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yessir.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Hagman was a pretty slick signing
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus
It helped get us Phaneuf. Win-win.
Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Oct 12, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
tucker wasn’t his fault – he didn’t re-sign him, and buying him out is better than being stuck with him.
mccabe would have been a fine trade if van ryn wasn’t made of glass.
he made some decent trades for picks too (hal gill in particular was magic – 2 picks??? and he got a pick for chad kilger too).
hagman was a great signing.
finger, frogren, hollweg, mayers, stempniak though… mistakes, for sure.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
A team like Toronto should never have to buy out anybody, especially when it means getting stuck with a cap hit for the next six years. Tucker should have been waived. To be fair though, with Fletch as an interim it would be hard to explain how a temporary guy could justify sending $4m down the drain to the minors.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you waive players with NMC or NTC (no movement clause/No trade clause)? I think he had some form of one so demotion was not an option if that was the case… I think
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
I think you’re right.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure you can waive someone with an NTC, but not an NMC. ANd I think Tucker had the latter.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Oyy it’s all coming back to me now.
I do wonder though, would Tucker’s presence in the lineup the past few years have made much difference to the team? i.e. would we have finished any better or worse? I have a hard time reconciling the fact that Tucker’s salary will be on our cap for four more years despite his retiring this year. Retiring!
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno, I think that gutting the sources of the character flaws on the team was important, though I’m not sure if Tucker really had a bad attitude, or if he just got lumped in for the fun of it.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t matter. Can’t have Muskoka 5 with only 4 players, duh!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure if he had a bad attitude either. Course none of us were in the room at the time so who knows. But it’s hard to buy a guy who played with heart the way he did as a selfish loser.
Lumping in all the players with NTCs and NMCs so the media could call them the Muskoka Five was a sexy and easy thing for the media to do. How true that really was, who knows? I honestly don’t think there was any interest out there for Tucker anyway, not as a tradeable commodity.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
What was his salary again?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
$3M http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=562
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I think “bad attitude” probably isn’t the best description of why Tucker got moved. I’m sure he was a great dude, Kaberle seemed to miss him, but the issue was the perception that he was part of a group of guys who were really more concerned with playing together and having a great time over, you know, winning.
Kaberle himself was a great example of this. He sulked for almost a full season after the team ditched Tucker/McCabe. He also started noticeably wavering in his assertion that he wanted to be a Maple Leaf for life. All because his buddies were gone? That doesn’t sound like the makings of a competitive core.
With .910 goaltending behind them the Leafs would have made the playoffs every year since the lockout.
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I’m not saying that it’s concrete, we’re into touchy-feely territory here and it’s not worth putting much stock into.
I was just trying to say that, though Tucker pretty obviously got moved because of issues that weren’t wholly related to his declining playing ability, it doesn’t mean that he was an asshole either. Just trying to defend his “bad attitude” is all.
yeah
It’s hard to really look objectively at those players and say that they were the trouble individually. But however it was done, I think the massive turnover had to happen for the Leafs to rebuild. Even if we still had Tucker right now at $3 mill over Armstrong at $3 mill, I’d wonder what it would like be for someone with a strong media presence like Tucker to stick around when Phaneuf was brought in. I think part of the reason that keep only Kaberle works is not only because he has irreplaceable offensive talent, but also because he seems pretty meek for an all-star.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Ironic that it was him and Sundin who refused to waive their no-trades? The two guys of the five who seemed the least vocal in public.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m saying that with a goaltender besides Raycroft there’s no Muskoka five.
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If he stays on the Marlies for the rest of his contract, that’s $7M in salary to a minor league d-man.
Also, after recent quotes from Tomas Kaberle re: the trade that never was, I’m a little hesitant to cheer for something that could impact the rest of Jeff Finger’s playing career. It’s not his fault he was offered the contract he was.
Happy for the Leafs scoring some much needed cap space though.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 12:37 PM EDT reply actions
no, it is not his fault to take that contract. However, it is his responsibility to live up to that contract.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
that’s true. he was such a lazy floater and defensive liability on every shift. i forgot…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s what happens when you block shots with your face
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah there’s no need to hate on Finger. I’m just glad that about the cap space.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
by maplestirup on Oct 12, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
I’d like to think I’ve defended Finger a lot, and on a professional level I feel bad for him… but as a fan of the team, I’m hugely in favour of anything that gives us more flexibility.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
look, if Finger really wants to play in the NHL, then he can play his ass off on the Marlies this year and maybe have someone justify taking the final year of his contract when he gets sent down next October.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
will he be automatically put on reentry waivers in summer 2011?
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
then I highly doubt someone takes him next summer, unless he REALLY plays his ass off for the Marlies this year
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s pretty much exactly where I’m at.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a business
If you aren’t working as hard as your boss perceives you should for the money he is paying you then you get shown the door.
Just the way the world works.
Please tell me that the MLSE announcement
…reads `Jeff Finger’s large annuity makes him a Marlie in perpetuity.’
Happy days!!!
Oh, and Lebdalebdalebdalebdalebdalebdalebdalebda.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Brian Burke
…is like Laverne & Frickin’ Shirley: MAKIN’ OUR DREAAAAAAAAMS COME TRUE!!!!1
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
by jrwendelman on Oct 12, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel somewhat bad for Finger but you gotta do what you gotta do
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 12:48 PM EDT reply actions
"This speculation that Jeff Finger has been earmarked for assignment, I don’t think is fair to Jeff," Burke said on a conference call announcing 21 training camp cuts. "It’s not what a professional athlete who signs as a free agent is entitled to.
"I think he’s entitled to a fair look. You can’t come in with a preconceived notion that that’s how you’re going to solve your cap issue. That’s not fair to the player. You start doing stuff like that then players aren’t going sign with your organization."
I feel bad for Burke, he had to act like he was actually going to give Finger a fair look this season. Maybe he did. Hello breathing room under the cap.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Random stupid question.
If we wanted to call him back up are re-entry waivers mandatory?
or can he be recalled without going through re-entry waivers?
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
I think he can come back for a limited on on emergency recall
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
for an emergency call up he can be brought up without having to clear waivers
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought we went to the zoo ( East GTA, nuclear disaster joke)
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
Or the jungle? Jane+Lawrence hahah
I'm tired of the Leafs half-assing it like a chick with one butt cheek.
by happiergilmore on Oct 12, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure he has to go through re-entry, unless it’s an emergency call-up basis (and we still have cap room). I can think of 2 or 3 players i’d rather bring up first though.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
in Columbus
which means, if Lebda gets injured, chances are the kids will be left on the Marlies, and Finger will see some action with the Leafs if needed.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
$112,903
That’s the amount spent on Jeff Finger to date as far as the salary cap in concerned. Keep this number in mind if we get slapped with any bonus overages next year.
Certified Grabbo Lover
I'm not going to lie
I’m still kind of in shock. We just went to being “in mediocre cap trouble” to having plenty of space, regardless of how many p. bonuses get hit.
Seems a bit too good to be true. Gotta think burke will find a way to take on a salary dump in a trade to get a player and once again we’ll be right back against it.
20 miles to Legoland!
That’s my assumption too.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Better than tying up money in something we don’t need. Bringing in talent at the cost of bonus overage is better than not bringing in talent and also paying the overage.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
True ’dat. Getting anything on the ice for that $3.5MM is an improvement over having it in the pressbox.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh
I wonder if this is what Anaheim felt like when Giggy was riding the pine at that huge salary last year.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do we need to take on anyone else?
We have 13 F and 7 D on the roster.
If any forward goes down we can recall Hanson Caputi or Kadri without waivers
If any D goes down we can recall Aulie or one of the other Marlie kids, or recall Finger/Lashoff on emergency recall.
The only reason to jusitfy a salary dump is if someone pays us off with draft picks.
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
Counterpoint: Burke loves overpaying for gritty veterans.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke said he’d like to bring in someone with size at C. So despite Tim Brent’s unexpected excellent play and Zigomanis’ faceoff prowess, I would not be surprised if Burke brought in another center.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re totally trading Finger and Brent for Getzlaf
Burke’s got a history with Anaheim, the ducks need a solid D man, and Brent has outscored Getzlaf so far.
right? RIGHT??
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
please don’t tease me like that
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
New captain of the Ducks, doesn’t matter how shitty they are he isn’t going anywhere
/cries
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Perry would be a decent consolation prize
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, or ovie either right?
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
All our 1C needs is faceoff winning ability. Just bring Zigomanis up to play with Kessel and Versteeg.
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Please don’t tease me like that either.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
If Burke didn’t make a move after we went 0-7-1 to satrt last season he’s not making a move when we’re 2-0-0
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
Grabovski Kulemin and two firsts for Stamkos you heard it here first.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I would do that in an instant
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Just woke up so I’m stuck in perpetual dreaming mode.
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
OH SNAP
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
good point
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
What is that, e∞?
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec’d for incredible use of the infinity sign
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I really don’t think he should make a move, I just wouldn’t be surprised if he did.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
oh dear
things are about to take a turn for the ridiculous here, aren’t they…?
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
quite probably yes
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
We don't NEED to take on anyone else
The timing just seems off, and I always remember Burke saying:
We are going to spend to the cap.
Unused cap space feels like a waste in Burke’s opinion, IMHO.
UNLESS the new capologist is actually being listened to? Who knows.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe a bit more optimism is in order?
with Burke, stuff like this usually happens in advance of some other move.
Maybe Burke’s wheeling and dealing already, since he’s negotiating from a stronger position now. I.e. the top of the conference.
Brett Lebda is an anagram for BATTLE BRED. Anger is more useful than despair.
by Peter de Chatham on Oct 12, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
They’ll be plenty of optimism at hfboards and the fraud’s site, if anything we need more pessimism.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
if anything we need more pessimism
You rang?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
by mf37 on Oct 12, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahahaha yesssss
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
we can always count on you, poopy pants
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
but you’re so much more chipper and upbeat on the podcasts. I always imagined you as the guy who voiced Eeyore from the Winnie the Pooh cartoons.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Eeyore FTW!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Email is tone deaf. I don’t think I sound half as dire as the folks around here would have it…I see it as healthy skepticism with a dash of being rational.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Not really news
I have to think that NJ may be willing to take on cheap bodies to move an asset. I mean, they can’t ice a full team and yesterday was Thanksgiving/Columbus Day.
The NHLPA is already saying “WTF?”
The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
PPP and mf37 both said this wouldn’t happen on Podcast #11.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
heh, sure did
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
And Chemmy was playing Devil’s Advocate.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Right is right, man up moose.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
this is also true
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really. I was leaning towards him being waived and then both Forbes and PPP said it wouldn’t happen. That sweetened the pot.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
hahaha
You were right you big jerk.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
i stand corrected
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
and my first reaction to hearing the news was to own up to it. I honestly never thought Burke would waive Finger.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Yeah your position was extremely defensible…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
I am stunned. Now, let’s see if he eats the entire cost…
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yeah, I’ve frequently said MLSE would burn $7MM when I saw it, so kudos to them. The crow tastes delicious on this occasion.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Think about the $7mm (over 2 years) in context of the increase in revenue from home playoff dates. A few home playoff games makes that a financial win.
The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Presumably that’s how Burkie pitched it. It is the smart way to look at things.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
heh
Actually come to think of it, this may be the reason for the delay. I know we’re supposed to think Burkie has autonomy but that doesn’t seem to quite be the case, so maybe the Leafs winning two games has something to do with finally burying Finger.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
warning, incoming trade rumours, spawn more cap space
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:10 PM EDT reply actions
The Fraud will have like 60 rumors up by tomorrow morning.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
ugh
I know
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Nj had 6 skaters on the ice int he dying seconds of their game the other night, all 6 of’em were forwards. not one of them was travis Zajac.
ZAJAC IN COACHES DOGHOUSE, GOING TO BE TRADED TO TORONTO!!!1
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
all involving New Jersey
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I HEAR NJ IS IN CAP TROUBLE
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Na na naaaaaaa na
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Oct 12, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Na na naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa na
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Oct 12, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
HEY HEY HEY
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Oct 12, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gooooooooooooodbye
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Oct 12, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
GOOOOOOOOOODbye
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Ouch
Wilson downplayed the business side of Finger’s departure after Tuesday’s practice. "It’s not so much a business move as that there are seven guys better than him," the coach said.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:29 PM EDT reply actions
He’s pretty blunt, but that settles it.
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Not shocking. They need to spin this as “Finger got looked at and didn’t make the cut,” not “Finger is getting cut because of his contract.” Fairness to the players, remember?
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Still feels like a kick to the groin when he’s down.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
and frankly, this just makes me think the Lebda signing was all about pushing Finger down the depth chart.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, where did I hear that before?
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Oct 12, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, I still say a lot of us are underestimating Burke
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Oct 12, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh well. They’re loaded on RD and brought in a competent LD that can compete with Gunnar on 3rd pairing. Don’t blame Burke for that.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
…and brought in a competent LD….
Do you ever, ever, defend the Brett Lebda signing. Ever.
Certified Grabbo Lover
do you mean Don’t?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
Skinnypants meant to say “don’t”, he got so worked up he Jared himself
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Oct 12, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
the correct term is Jareded
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
why do you have such a hate-on for Lebda (despite the obvious fact that he’s about $500K overpaid)?
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s a waste of a contract and grossly overpaid at $1.45M. I’d put him on par with Aulie, Holzer, Mikus, and Richmond except they are all young and getting better and he’s never going to be more than a 6th or 7th defenseman. Burke’s worst signing to date.
Certified Grabbo Lover
meh
Lebda’s a stop gap to give the young guys time. Though after the pre-season performances, your analysis ends up being spot on. I’m pretty sure I’d rather have just kept Richmond in the NHL than have Lebda.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, as long as he’s just sitting in the pressbox. I thought Lashoff looked absolutely terrible.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, forgot about Richmond too. Holy shit we’re deep all of a sudden!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That was a good one.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
well played.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Worse than Colby Armstrong at $3M? The complexion of the D changes dramatically if Phaneuf is on the team before the Beauch and Komi signings, otherwise there wouldn’t be a mint tied up in the blueline.
I’m going to hang on to see how he works out before proclaiming him the worst signing EVAR!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Armstrong’s contract is for too much, but he actually plays whereas Lebda gets $1.45M to get in the press box munching on Burkie Dogs.
Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Oct 12, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I thought Lebda was hurt though? He’s the 6th D when he gets healthy, no?
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? Based on camp and the first two games?
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Compromising pictures of Wilson
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The ultimate intangible.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh, Mitchell. Ronnie’s long lost nephew?
Gunnar was amazing last year, and I’m a big fan, don’t get me wrong. Must be part of the “Bring in as much competition as possible” protocol. Dunno. Will he outplay Gunnar or make Gunnar better?
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Gunnar was pretty regular last year and benefited from good puck luck.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
He is the prime candidate for a “sophmore slump” based on his advanced stats, I believe some one else compiled that in the summer.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Good points. Burke looking for some veteran insulation (damn you pierre mcguire!) from Lebda?
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends on how well Gunnarsson plays. I think they will be swapping in and out for much of the year.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Oct 12, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
rec’d for Armstrong.
The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Oct 12, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
rec’d for Army love
"It reminded me a lot of when I was in Pittsburgh and we were growing together as a group. The Leafs are going through the same thing" - Colby Armstrong
seriously? ugh. apparently 1.5 mil is too much for a 6th defenseman but 3 mil isn’t too much for a third line plugger.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
AN AWESOME THIRD LINE PLUGGER!!!!!!!
(translation: he’s one of Sid’s best friends + old roomate, plus he was a part of the awesomely-cool Pens core)
"It reminded me a lot of when I was in Pittsburgh and we were growing together as a group. The Leafs are going through the same thing" - Colby Armstrong
I'm a teenager
I rebel
"It reminded me a lot of when I was in Pittsburgh and we were growing together as a group. The Leafs are going through the same thing" - Colby Armstrong
gimme chocolate
and I might pretend to listen
"It reminded me a lot of when I was in Pittsburgh and we were growing together as a group. The Leafs are going through the same thing" - Colby Armstrong
facepalm
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
seconded.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
and you wore an onion around your belt, as was the style at the time.
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
There was also 4-foot high snow.
.
by PassivelyTruculent on Oct 12, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
and hills that went up in both directions
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
and back then nickels had bees on them. five bees for a quarter, we’d say.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s the term that kills me as much as the price. If he’s just a stop gap, why 2 years?
Plus Mike Mottau, a much better player, was signed for half the price—and it should have been no surprise that waiting would have turned up someone like that.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
holy crap
I had a brain fart, I thought it was for 1 year. BOOOOO TWO YEARS
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I maintain Burke signed Lebda because he expected to move Kaberle.
Although that does raise the follow-up question of why he didn’t wait until he moved kaberle…
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
Ding ding ding
Totally unnecessary so early in the summer.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Because there were so many suitors out there for Brett Lebda that Burke had to get him first. Yeah….right….
Certified Grabbo Lover
Yeah, I will concede that it’s a really weird signing. Not yet convinced that it’s a bad one though. Want to see how he performs first before coming to that type of conclusion.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he’s cut from Archi’s roster then, for sure.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I'M SO ANGRY
STUPID BRETT LEBDA AND HIS NOT HAVING PLAYED YET AND THE LEAFS HAVING 2 WINS ALREADY!!!!
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
(i was getting worried about you guys, so glad this turned back into a bitch fest!)
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
MY FACE IS ANGRY
YOU ARE CORRECT
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
you guys fuckin slay me!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
well, NHL agents like to milk the leafs for every penny. Heard stories before about how lots of guys refuse to come to Toronto unless they are handsomely paid
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
except for Kaberle
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Oct 12, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
haha! Mad Skinny is Mad!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Do i ever!!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Only they brought in Lebda to possibly push Finger out of the picture.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Go ahead – Push my Finger!
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Oct 12, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Darren Dreger stepping in to try to squash the rumour mill
DarrenDreger: The Leafs have nothing going on. Finger was their 8th d-man. However, clearing $4.8 in cap space by demoting Finger gives them room to add.
20 miles to Legoland!
4.8m in cap space by demoting finger? I’m not an expert with the salary cap so can somebody explain where the other 1.3m came from?
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He messed up.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
strange that Shoalts wrote the same number in his piece.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Could have been using capgeek
which says we have 1.3M
Have we factored in the Hanson, Caputi and Lashoff demotions?
http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=4
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you for quoting that and not linking it.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why I don’t read HFBoards, ever.
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s an E4 right there.
Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Oct 12, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
THANK YOU NICK KYPREOS
I don’t think I would’ve ever heard those words in the same sentence.
In Lou We Trust: Freshly signed to the last 15 year deal in the history of SBNation
If the quality of my posts begin to get better, it's because i'm doing steroids.
by Kevin Sellathamby on Oct 12, 2010 1:37 PM EDT reply actions
So
You guys don’t like the Finger character much do ya?
if he made 2 mill less he’d be our best friend
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think he’d be that awkward quiet friend we allow to hang out with us but quietly wish would go away
Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 12, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And he was left-handed and his last name was actually Lebda.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
By suck I mean he’s a below average NHL defender/career minor league player
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a little harsh. I take it back.
He doesn’t suck anything that I know of, but he also isn’t very good at his position at the NHL level.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Carolina sends Jiri Tlusty to Charlotte on conditioning stint.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Conditioning stint 2 games into the season. Wellwoodesque.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
yeah
that was Wellwood’s excuse at first too
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think, but certainly can’t prove, that the Leafs really botched Tlusty’s development.
He put up good numbers with the Soo, but for some reason JFJ and Maurice had him up in the NHL as an 19 year old. They only played him in about 55 games and gave him all of 10 minutes a night. As a Euro-born skater, he could have (and should have) been in the AHL honing his game, playing 18+ minutes a night.
Kid was a point a game player in the AHL, but hasn’t been able to figure it out at the NHL level. I have to wonder if he’d been given 2 to 3 years in the AHL if he’d be further along the development curve and ready to make a contribution.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I think, but certainly can’t prove, that the Leafs really botched Tlusty’s development.
JFJ and Maurice
Sounds proved to me.
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
Pogge and Tlusty are playing together in Charlotte. If you give JFJ an apron, pointy hat and a tray of beer to sell in the stands, the circle of hockey life will be complete.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
by mf37 on Oct 12, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
/off to ebay…
Does anyone have JFJ’s address?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering
his ppg pace at a young age in the AHL, he’ll probably develop eventually… he’s young still.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not writing him off, just posing the unanswerable question: what would have been best for his development?
I don’t think spot duty as a 19 year old is the ideal starting point.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
On the last podcast the guys talked about “tweeners”; guys who light it up in the AHL but can’t do anything in the NHL because they don’t have the skillset to compete with the game so much faster.
My opinion is Tlusty will fall into that category; he’s offensively gifted enough to be a ppg guy in the AHL or he’d simply dominate in the European leagues, but he can’t replicate the success at the NHL level
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
At the time I thought that “giving up” on Tlusty for what was essentially a bag of pucks, while not the end of the world, was just straight up poor asset management by Burke.
And you know what? A year later I still think that.
Tlusty was traded at the start of December. Three months later, with the intention of accelerating the teams development by adding more mature prospects, Burke traded Poni for… Luca Caputi. Caputi, the guy who in weight, height, age, and AHL production is pretty much a carbon copy of Tlusty.
Am I looking at this wrong? Burke dumped a young guy with a borderline shot at the NHL, and then a few months later traded for exactly that saying it’s what this team needed.
Tlusty’s nothing special, what I really don’t like about that sequence of events is that I can’t figure out Burke’s thought process. If we needed a guy like Caputi then shouldn’t we have just kept Tlusty and had two of those guys? If we didn’t need a guy like Tlusty then why take another one instead of a draft pick with a higher potential reward?
Now Tlusty’s been sent back after not making the Canes and we’re deriding him, but Caputi’s back in the Marlies too and nobody seems to mind. For the life of me I can’t see the difference in situations.
Combined with Burke’s penchant for putting even blue chippers in the AHL, I have to think that Burke would agree with Chemmy: bringing Tlusty up early damaged his ceiling. Caputi – though similar to Tlusty in many ways – did not have those problems. It’s also a little different in that Burke was limited by the demand for Poni.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I could have sworn we had the choice of a 2nd for Poni, many of which do become legit NHLers as opposed to… Tlustys
Still, Caputi had done nothing to prove that he was more “NHL ready” than Tlusty for his time in the minors, and once again their AHL production is very similar.
2nd was the speculated “asking price”, for which Burke thought was equivalent to Caputi.
I’m fairly certain Pitt didn’t have their 2nd rnd pick at that point, so if Burke wanted a 2nd rounder it would have had to come from some one else.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought we got Caputi instead of a 2nd round pick because Burke didn’t want to wait for the pick to develop…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya, I’m just saying they said his asset value was “the equivalent” of a 2nd rounder in a trade.
His whole “be competitive now” thing may be getting in the way of the optimal asset management… then again he likes to grab players who have proven themselves or are near proving themselves (i.e. success in the AHL) rather than gamble on a lottary ticket that is a draft pick.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Which, really, just makes the Tlusty trade more confusing, because he traded a player who’d proven himself in the AHL for one who doesn’t even look that good in the QMJHL.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke has clearly made mistakes.
I somehow doubt we’ll be upset about his idea to waive Jeff Finger in a year though.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see Caputi even closely resembling Tlusty. I think Caputi plays a more north-south game in a the mold of a typical power forward where Tlusty was more peripheral and slicker when he played. At best on can hope Caputi fill into a Gary Roberts type player with time were as with Tlusty I cant figure out quite yet as to what mold he will fit.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Also
Tlusty not waiver eligible – Caputi is.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Oct 12, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke’s entire shtick has been about acquiring players who he considers either NHL ready or almost NHL ready, rather than taking a ride on the draft pick lottery. I really like the idea, and I have faith in that style of rebuilding. However it also means that if someone gives you the option of a second round lotto pick or a player who has shown he can produce at the AHL level, you take the kid with at least a known degree of pedigree.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Here’s where I see the distinction.
Tlusty’s career stats show a kid who kept proving he was too good for the AHL, but couldn’t replicate the succes he has in the AHL. In 3 different season, he topped out at a 0.3 ppg player in the NHL.
Caputi’s career stats show a kid who proved he could be a consistent scorer in the AHL, but couldn’t break through Pittsburgh’s stacked lineup. He only got spot duty in the NHL before coming over. Last year was first real long-term look in an NHL lineup and he managed 0.35 ppg.
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
PIT’s lineup is stacked? They’ve been looking for a winger to play with Crosby forever.
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Compared to ours the last 3 years they’re the 1970s Habs.
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
Yes what with those
waiver wire droppings Fedotenko and Guerin… no room for a young scoring kid.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Stacked may be the wrong word, but it seems weird to me that they’ve had kids like Caputi and Tangradi (from anaheim, I know) ripping up the AHL and have barely given them NHL time.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Tangradi
is with the big club now. 3 games, 1 assist.. drafted 2007
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He played
1 AHL season… really not the same.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell yeah it's stacked!
They got Crosby, and Malkin, and Staal and…………………………………………………..
Certified Grabbo Lover
Pittsburgh?
Yeah.. not so stacked.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Caputi for Poni was all about Pitt trying to get someone to click with Crosby. Like most deadline acquisitions, it was about mortgaging the future for the right now. And, if Poni and Crosby really did click, then Caputi wouldn’t have had a great chance to break the lineup.
After Poni put up an unsustainable low shooting percentage (and still didn’t have terrible point production) and (I assume) wouldn’t agree to what would’ve basically been a tryout contract, they parted ways, Pitt without a prospect and still without a winger for Crosby.
Very little of it had to do with him breaking through Pitt’s lineup, since Pitt seemed content to let him develop in the A for a while.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
He didn’t really play with Sid, they were trying to get him with Geno more than Sid.
"It reminded me a lot of when I was in Pittsburgh and we were growing together as a group. The Leafs are going through the same thing" - Colby Armstrong
Ehhh, not so much.
PP time with Sid, EV time with Sid, yeah, some EV with Malkin, but…
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
/raises eyebrows
I apparently suck when it comes to line combos.
The biggest complaint I heard about him was he couldn’t play with Geno, not that he couldn’t play with Sid (I guess that was more of the Russian/Ukrainian factor)
"It reminded me a lot of when I was in Pittsburgh and we were growing together as a group. The Leafs are going through the same thing" - Colby Armstrong
Maybe Burke felt Tlusty’s development had been irreversibly harmed?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe? There were also rumours that Tlusty was asking for a trade/threatening to jump ship to Russia but those rumours never even approached validity.
Playing style difference? Caputi’s more of a mucker than Tlusty. Tlusty seems like his ceiling is Niklas Hagman to me: a fairly one dimension goal scorer who isn’t elite.
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yeah
playing style makes sense
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
"Then, the rest of it for me is, we want to have a certain attitude. We want to play an entertaining style. We don’t trap. We pursue the puck in all three zones. We hit in all three zones. We fight. And we try to score a lot of goals."
Tlusty was too soft and fragile in my opinion. Caputi appears to play with heart.
by general borschevsky on Oct 12, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep that’s definitely a factor, but once again Caputi hasn’t shown any real flashes of being more effective at the NHL level than Tlusty was. In my mind they’ve still both got about an equal shot of sticking around in the bigs.
I wish we’d just never traded for Paradis, it seemed like a horrible return at the time and knowing what we do now it’s still horrible. Tlusty should have had way more value than that, considering what we gave up to get a similar guy.
You’re preaching to the choir on Paradis. I’ve called him a garbage prospect multiple times and I’ll stick to it.
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For context, I should point out that my initial post was replying to a dude who was deriding the negative reactions people had towards the Tlusty trade, but getting Paradis back was a legitimate “WTF are you thinking, Burke?” kind of move.
Burke’s done a lot to win us over, but that sequence of events is still just puzzling. I don’t think anyone should be ridiculed for their reactions to that trade at the time, Burke had yet to work his magic with other deals. I’m also a little bit disappointed in the need to tear down anyone not with the organization anymore.
I didn't like the dumping of Tlusty really either
But it was the beginning of Burke’s clensing of the “Blue & White” disease.
If you look bigger picture though, Tlusty for Paradis, who was then packaged with Stalberg & Didominico for Versteeg.
WHO KNOWS IF PARADIS WASNT THE LYNCHPIN IN THE VERSTEEG DEAL!!
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Tlusty
didn’t exhibit any of the hallmarks of blue&white disease… I never raelly saw much sense of entitlement out of him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
didn’t exhibit any of the hallmarks of blue&white disease
That YOU know of. I think it’s pretty clear a lot of things happen behind the scenes that never make it to the media.
Not really the point though, im sure a bunch of guys Burke shipped off weren’t symptomatic of the aforementioned affliction, but just guys that didn’t fit Burke’s template. Or ones that could be used to acquire “his” type of players.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve never understood it—surely Tlusty would have been a better trade chip than Paradis.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely
Tlusty was horribly undervalued in that deal.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Main difference
playing style… Caputi is more like a power forward… Tlusty is a perimeter skill guy.. he has decent size, but he isn’t as comfortable going to high contact areas.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Tlusty was traded for another prospect, who Burke liked better – Paradis. A “Burke type player” who was later traded for a more “Burke type player” – Versteeg.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s not try to make it seem like Paradis was what brought Versteeg over. The Hawks would have been more than happy with Tlusty being in that same position.
Let’s also not play a revisionist history-style guessing game about what the hawks did or didn’t want. I have to imagine ELC status played a big part in them taking Paradis.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
i like revisionist history
because in mine Kerry Fraser saw the high stick…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
in mine, Kerry Fraser caught the high stick, and then gretz burst into flames
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He always saw it. So did the linesman. They just didn’t have the guts to throw the Great One out of the game in overtime with the series on the line.
by general borschevsky on Oct 12, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
oooh
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Sorta tongue in cheek above
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Oct 12, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahahaaha
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
swap the sniping with the dangling and sure
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
In that Versteeg is a useful NHL player, yes.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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true story
Kris Versteeg is awesome.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
zig’d
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
zig.
because it’s true.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
What a terrible draft. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NHL_Entry_Draft
There’s not a ton after Tlusty that’s worth having.
Lucic and Kulemin, and then McBain and Dick Axelsson because they have funny names I guess.
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Chris Stewert?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
oh man
I remember thinking Sanguinetti was gonna be great.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
heh
looking at that draft, the Leafs actually seemed to do pretty good – Kulemin,Stalberg, maybe Holzer…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure he’s been mentioned here once before
.
by PassivelyTruculent on Oct 12, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
4:23 PM
Loved Cal Clutterbuck when he played in Oshawa…
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Call me when Varlamov is better than league average for more than six games.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Good... Good...
It’s a little early to say Grabner, Giroux, Varlamov, Berglund, Foligno, Neuvirth, McGinn, Matthias, Anisimov, Mason, Clutterbuck, Reimer, Holzer, Stalberg, Mursak, aren’t all going to be superior to Tlusty… it’s not a great draft, but it’s not completely devoid of decent players.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re missing the point.
It’s a weak draft even if you can pull out Giroux and Chris Stewart.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I agreed
that it was a soft draft… but it’s still early … 2006 was only 4 years ago.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s the statute of limitations on calling it a weak draft? 4 years seems like plenty of time. These kids are 22. That’s not old in the NHL but…
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I laughed a lot more than I should have at this.
.
by PassivelyTruculent on Oct 12, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
but what?
it’s young for chrissakes.
You’re cherrypicking guys as bad on the basis of their sophomore years. Ridiculously early to call them shitty players.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If I gave you a 2nd round pick, didn’t tell you which exact pick it is but told you that you could choose the year; knowing what you know now would you choose it from 2005 or 2006? 2006 or 2007?
Pension Plan Puppets*
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3 years?
2005, and 2007 were strong… particularly… that doesn’t make 2006 particularly weak.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Kulemin & Seabrook in the 2nd round…
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Is it? I thought that’s when Brent went? I really need to google these things first.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
You could click the link to the draft I provided too. That would work.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Man, you lose me when you get all technical on here with your “clicks” and “links”
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
nope
Keith
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, Keith and Seabrook… not just on the same pairing, but in the same player. That is a scary thought.
He’s ambidextrous!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Neuvirth, Lucic, Seabrook all in the second round after Tlusty. Reimer in the fourth, who looks like he’ll at least hit backup-quality, if not better. Holzer and Andy MacDonald late.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Yeah I can’t believe we missed out on Keith Seabrook. Man our scouts should all be fired.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Keith Seabrook was fuckin’ amazing for the WHL Champion Calgary Hitmen, thank you very much.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Saw your message below. My mistake. Totally agree with your original point, though – if all I can pull out are a couple goalies (crap shoot at the draft) and some projects, it’s not a good draft.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I think Karina wins with Chris Stewart. Shrug.
When it comes to hindsight in draft I don’t care about the third round or later. If every GM passed twice then no one knew that kid would be an NHL contributor.
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Steve Mason?
Patrik Berglund?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
.901, 26 points man how could we miss those
Pension Plan Puppets*
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26 points?
Try 73 points in 147 games… that’s a 40 point player… not a bad draft pick considering you’re bashing his sophomore season… sophomore slump and all that. He had 47 points as a rookie.
Alex Steen is another player to look at in this light.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
How many
47 point players did the Leafs have last year?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok you got me 2006 was an excellent draft and all of the players were great.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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No
but hey let’s make the whole discussion absurd so your viewpoint is the only rational one possible… that’s helpful.
All I said is it’s early to state that there were only two players taken after Tlusty worth drafting.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Feel free to argue against what I'm actually saying
since I’ve agreed with you that it was a weak draft… you aren’t even arguing with me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
All I said was that it was a weak draft, not that everyone drafted in 2006 was terrible.
We’d be pretty disappointed if our 14th overall pick was Berglund and he scored 26 points in 70 some games last year.
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Patrick Berglund? The St. Louis Blues’ third line center whom they don’t play on the PK? We missed out on drafting him? Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
Certified Grabbo Lover
3rd year player?
wtf is wrong with you guys?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Any player that doesn't
pan out into all-star material within 3 years of his NHL career is useless? Is that our argument?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Patrick Berglund????
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Certified Grabbo Lover
Haven’t we demonstrated in Kadri discussions that the odds dictate that a superstar is going to start blossoming by around age 20?
I don’t see how we can mitigate our own prospects’ potential while making reference to this point, but we can discount it when discussing other teams’ prospects.
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
Nobody said
He HAD to become a superstar… we said useful picks after Tlusty… a 45 point player is fucking useful.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
We’d be happy if Tlusty scored 45 now, but I think our expectation of a 14th overall pick is a higher ceiling.
Also let’s not get carried away with Berglund. 15% shooting and a 47 pt rookie season followed up by a 10% shooting 26pt season. We’ll see what he turns into but I wouldn’t pencil him in as “perennial 50pt guy”.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I said 40
then said 45… now you’re saying 50… … You’re right… 40-45 is a more reasonable ceiling.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, if that’s his ceiling I think we’d be pretty meh on him as a 14th overall pick.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Alex Steen
same problem?
I’d say he’s a useful player… others might argue differently.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He looked pretty good against an abomination of a Ducks team the other night.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Lots of NHL players look good against AHL competition
Resident Capologist
Follow me on Twitter @clrkaitken. Or don't. Whatever.
AHL Competition?
Perry, Getzlaf, Ryan, Hiller, Visnovsky, Selanne, Carlson?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
it really reminded me of one Leafs game last year, where the opposition (I forget who) had us hemmed in our own zone it looked like a 5 on 3 powerplay but it was even strength. And the entire crowd was booing the Leafs because they couldn’t get it out.
It was pretty much one of the lowest points for me last season.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 12, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much.
The Ducks look like this year’s 2009-10 Leafs. They’re not only 0-3, they’ve been blown out and horribly outplayed in every game. Reminds me of about 5 of the 8 losses we started the season off with last year.
Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Oct 12, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Leafs first win last year was against the Ducks too!
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
maybe assuming a 1st round pick will score a zillion points is part of the problem? Being a 1st rounder should really just mean “makes the NHL”… beyond that, production is gravy.
Top 3 picks need to produce, rest of the 1st round, I’m less stressed about.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Also I challenge this statement
When it comes to hindsight in draft I don’t care about the third round or later. If every GM passed twice then no one knew that kid would be an NHL contributor
This was the draft where the Leafs selected Reimer, Holzer, Kulemin, Stalberg, amongst others. That’s 3 guys drafted after the 2nd round, plus a 2nd rounder… Tyler Ruegsugger is in there also… 4 years of College still in the system.
The fact that the Leafs picks are turning out decently implies they had half a clue… even after the 2nd round.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
and even that is in question because neither Reimer or Holzer are NHLers. Stalberg has less than 50 games to his credit. Kulemin is the only bonafide NHLer and he was the 2nd round pick
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
4 years after the draft?
As I said… really early to be calling that one.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
How many NHLers
were in the league last year drafted 2006 or later? As a percentage? anyone know? I’m looking into this… total postage on that.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
ok, but you’re throwing out names like Holzer and Reimer that haven’t played in the NHL.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
No I realize
but I’d say both are solid prospects… one has played decently in the Olympics,and Reimer has looked fine against NHL shooters… I’d expect him to make it eventually.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeha, I think you’re underestimating luck Steve. For example, in 2007 the Leafs draft went like this:
2007 Entry 74 3 Dale Mitchell R Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2007 Entry 99 4 Matt Frattin R Fort Saskatchewan Traders [AJHL]
2007 Entry 104 4 Ben Winnett L Salmon Arm Silverbacks [BCHL]
2007 Entry 134 5 Juraj Mikus D Trencin (Slovakia)
2007 Entry 164 6 Christopher DiDomenico C Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]
2007 Entry 194 7 Carl Gunnarsson D Linkoping HC [SEL] 43 3 12 15 10
Sure the last three picks look pretty good given how late they are, but if we were so smart why’d we take Frattin and Winnett before them? It’s a crapshoot.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You're going the wrong way
Frattin is still in our system… Winnett will be a wash out.
I really don’t know what happens with Mitchell, but I have hope still.
How we get a better read by moving CLOSER to the present is beyond me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Then look at 2005 (Oreskovic, Berry and Dalhberg oover Stralman). Or 2004 (OK bad example, we had no good picks in that draft). Or 2003 (Doherty, Sagat, Volkov over Mitchell).
I’m not crapping on the Leafs’ drafting, I’m just saying I’m skeptical of ALL claims that ANY team has a magical ability to select late round gems. We’re talking teeny-weeny sample sizes.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah agreed
ok I’m not arguing that point anymore… I concede.
I still think 4 years is too soon to be arguing that nobody after Tlusty was really worth it other than Kulemin or Lucic.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a bee in my bonnet on the issue after ESPN Mag’s slobber fest over the Wings. Daoust’s work and this should dispel any misconception that they are that much better than any other team. Their draft record post-2002 is pretty dismal.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Context Steve. Context. We’re playing the “what should we have drafted instead of Tlusty” game.
The answer is not: Ruegsegger (whom we didn’t tender an offer to and who is now an unsigned free agent.)
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Yes
I realize… I’m just saying there is an indication the Leafs had a pretty decent read on the draft that year…even if they don’t all pan out, we know the draft is a crap shoot.
Having that many guys get as close as they have is a solid sign to me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Incorrect. People have shown that goalies (Reimer) are almost always a crap shoot, and we did get lucky with him. Holzer is still a project, so it’s not fair to say that he’s even turning out “decently.” Stalberg and Kulemin were the two steals, one of whom was most useful in a trade.
The Leafs got lucky, too.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
How many picks
have to make it… before you stop saying it’s luck? Do they have to outperform the League Avg? In which case… are they doing that or not?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think, to some degree, drafting will always be about luck. You’re betting on a person – yes, you might be looking for “work ethic” or “a good interview” or such and such bicep size, but once you get out of premiere pedigree (where candidates have shown that they can succeed relative to their peers) and into the 3rd+ rounds, it’s a lot of luck.
Beyond that, I’m not sure what the line in the sand is, but personally, A) drafting goalies is almost always luck, because of the few number of positions and their late development. And B) More than two of the five later rounds would be where I start even thinking about someone being better than “lucky.”
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Mason has some focus and mental issues, I wouldn’t take him for a bag of pucks right now. His extension would’ve been one year for me. Also, if I were Columbus, I would have pulled Greiss off waivers.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I hate steve mason to my very core
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys are like a
bundle of rage today… which is odd in a waive Jeff Finger thread… I thought that’s what everyone wanted.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Two words: Rick Nash.
That is all.
.
by PassivelyTruculent on Oct 12, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you need to come here more.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I lack the time/energy
during the day.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
me to
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Ruined your fantasy year too?
I picked him up late last year for a fantasy team (fortunately a shallow league). The happiest he made me was when I dropped him to wires and he gave up 6 goals in his next game.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
cost me the oakville ball hockey championship (lowest tier lol)
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn reply fail, read above (accidently replied to Steve B)
.
by PassivelyTruculent on Oct 12, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
naybob, I am convinced if Mason hadn’t had a calder year and the Jackets missed the playoffs Rick Nash would be a Leaf right now
convinced
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
oh you
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Oct 12, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
so true
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
True story: Mike Commodore’s brother started work at my company today! He has very little hair, for hte record.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
OOOOH GET HIM TO DO A PHOTO OF HIM ON A BED WITH ALL THE CASH FROM HIS NEW JOB
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
this seems highly unlikely. more chance that you’d get him to do it.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
unlikely I’ll be coming to Calgary… ever.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds like the smart decision.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 12, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m looking at the draft page now and it is pretty weak. Hate to say it, but Foligno has done well considering he went 28th overall. Loved Cal Clutterbuck when he played in Oshawa…
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I think Foligno is pretty high up in “post Tlusty” players in that draft. That says a lot.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Claude Giroux
And Foligno are the two I’d take over Tlusty in a heartbeat.
But, not as if Toronto was the only team to pass either up. Hell, Vancouver went and drafted Grabner right after we drafted Tlusty (hence why I compare the two so often; they’ve basically had the same career since 2006, minus some NSFW pics).
Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Oct 12, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
is it really “terrible” or even “weak” or is it just average?
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think we can really say yet..
it’s not obviously excellent… but we are also comparing it to the Crosby and Ovechkin drafts… which makes it seem inferior
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe i should put it more succinctly:
does an average (aka “typical”) draft “suck”…?
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
In a word: Yes.
Not trying to shamelessly plug my spreadsheet, but download it below and check out the "Rank-Draft Year" tab. Select any year from the drop down and it shows you the top 20 from that draft for GP, G, A and Pts. The players who qualify are pretty surprising / disappointing. Check out 2000 for example…. Dominic Moore cracks the top 20. And let’s not forget Matty Stajan, 5th in pts for his draft year….
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
i’ve sort of leaned that way myself for years now. with the unusual depth in talent in the last few drafts (give or take a year) it’s quite en vogue to think that fountain will never run dry. i’m starting to think that beyond the top 3-5 picks every year going forward, it’s a crap shoot. If you’re not getting a lottery pick, there’s no guarantee you’ll be picking anyone of great consequence.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone on twitter mentioned this last week or soemthing like that, it seems we’re due for a #1 overall bust.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
hehe I like the way you think.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at it this way:
Players are in the NHL from (very roughly) the ages of 19-22 to maybe 32-39. So that means that at any given time there are about 10 to 20 drafts worth of players in the NHL (call it 15 average)with each draft letting in about 200 new kids. so that’s 2400 potential drafted players up for a bit under 700 NHL player jobs. So less than a third of the players drafted will be in the NHL at all, and if you figure that there are maybe 50 real impact players in the league (slightly less than 2 per team), each drafted kid has a 2% chance of being one of those players.
And you have to figure that top 3 draft slots have a moderately good chance of being in that top 50… so that leaves even less top 50 slots for the rest of the draft class to have a shot at filling out. It’s going to be a crap shoot, and most of them are going to end up not being in the NHL, and certainly not being of great consequence in it.
Kind of depressing really, if you think of it from the POV of an aspiring young player.
But isnt that also true with any high paying, high profile jobs… I mean not everyone that goes to medical school is world renown doctor or lawyers that never make partner or have a firm named after them… actors, athletes and other high paying job are such because its hard to make it to that elite level, even what I do for a living, only few get to my level and I consider myself the equivalent to a marginal NHler.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Yeah, I’ve thought about this before in my job.
I know I’m very good at what I do and I reckon I’m no better than a 3rd/4th line utility guy (or, to use a different sport, an unused substitute in the EPL).
I know this, because I work with someone who’s easily in the same league as Henrik Zetterberg and who’s slumming it working with us.
©1979-2010 article1 All rights reserved. Terms and conditions available on request. May be freely reproduced by anyone except those answering to the description 'Thieving Mittenstringer'.
for all your draft analysis needs
http://www.4shared.com/file/6rQUb_rR/Draft_History_94-Present_v2010.html
Scarily, as of the end of last year, Jiri T was 20th in pts from his draft class.
Also unrelated but interesting tidbit – Tomas Kaberle is one of only 20 players, and the only D, drafted since 1994 to play 800+ games and average 0.55pts or more.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
damn I forgot to bookmark this
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
What about guys who haven’t played as many games as Kaberle (800 games is about ten full seasons since 94, out of a possible 15 seasons means it’d have to be guys between 94 and 99…) but are on pace?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I'd be curious
about 600+ games.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
ps. kaberle 3rd in points for his draft class behind Briere and JP Dumont, just ahead of Marco Sturm, Dainus Zubrus, and Matt Cullen.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
JAN BULIS!!!!!!!!!!1
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The Sens drafted Niemi??
Or is that a different Niemi?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
ahhh
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
for some reason I thought it sad Goalie next to his name in the list of draftees
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Check out 1985. It’s Wendel, Nieuwendyk, and a big pile of “meh”.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats the same Paul Maurice??
Picked last in that draft!?
Its about time we stopped refining; rebuilding and finally worked with what we have.
Yep
suffered a crazy freak eye injury so he never got a shot at the NHL
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I never knew that.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
wasn’t he drafted as a sort of favor to the family or something? I thought I read that it was one of those token gesture type of things to make him feel better or help him out or something…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Fun random aside
The father of Derek Stepan- the Ranger who scored a hat trick against Buffalo- was drafted in 1985. By the Rangers. And never played a game in the NHL.
Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Oct 12, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
look at pick 247
by the Canadiens
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Oct 12, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
she’d probably prefer the Habs’ 240th overall pick in the 1984 draft year
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
me?
because I do prefer him very much. Stupid Patrick Roy taking his starter position
"It reminded me a lot of when I was in Pittsburgh and we were growing together as a group. The Leafs are going through the same thing" - Colby Armstrong
hahahahaha
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Craig Simpson did hit 50 once.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
43, and that doesn’t count because it was the 87/88 Oilers.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn!
From Gretzky to Lemieux, what a year.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I bow before you.
And I fail chart-reading 101.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Oct 12, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
My personal favourite is 1984
When LA took Tom Glavine in the 4th round…only to have him choose baseball and never set foot in the KIngs organization.
Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Oct 12, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You forgot to mention the best part of that anecdote, which is that they drafted Luc Robitaille in the 9th round that year, 102 picks after they selected Glavine.
The truth about it though, is that it’s very common for highly athletic collegians and HSers to be drafted in to multiple leagues in different sports. It’s strange to see it with hockey because the overlap is much smaller than with baseball or football but it happens and it wouldn’t be a bad thing to see it happen more.
Fun fact: psycho CF for the Washington Nationals Nyjer Morgan scored 2 goals and picked up 20 PIMs in 7 games with the Regina Pats in 1999-2000.
Like Rick Bosetti my goal in life is not to do well but to piss on things.
Which thankfully gives us ridiculous crap like this.
Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Oct 12, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That's one hell of a spreadsheet!
The 1999 Leafs Draft was fun. A total of 3GP and 1 Assist.
When did you last update it? I noticed Stalberg and Gunnarsson are in there with 0 GP.
it was updated this past june using hockey-reference.com. it’s strange though, for players that hadn’t played a significant amount of games, their stats weren’t updated in their draft database (even if those players stats were updated on the player page). other players seemed to be fine though (ie Kabby is accurate at 820 games played to the end of last year, I believe).
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
Do you input all the data by hand or do you do automatically somehow?
I have been working on a BlueJays database and it has taken a lot of work but this one is even more in depth.
i originally copied and pasted the data from hockey-reference into excel 2 years ago. unfortunately last year they changed the format of their stats on the draft pages (they excluded player position), so I had to copy them into excel and then map them over via formula into the original format by hand. kind of a pain, took a few hours to get it all clean, but certainly better than doing it by hand (which isn’t an option really…)
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
Why did I read that as “Chatroulette”
.
by PassivelyTruculent on Oct 12, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Little known fact
Wis was actually pointing out to Avery the kind of things he saw on Chatroulette the night before
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Picking up the convo down here
I think a lot of this is focused around the Leafs lack of top tier talent in recent years. If you have a Sundin, Mogilny, etc… then drafting a secondary scorer in the 1st round isn’t really a bad thing… .i.e. Devin Setoguchi, Joe Pavelski, etc. Not a superstar, but not a bad player.
I’d say Steen and Stajan and such fit into that mold… but because they aren’t top 3 players, we think they suck. It’s not their fault the team didn’t allocate resources properly.
Tlusty was rushed in an effort to develop him into top tier talent… fault management.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Tlusty was rushed in an effort to develop him into top tier talent… fault management.
I think this was the initial point that mf37 was trying to discuss before everything got derailed.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
that’s my fault… jumping into a convo without reading all 400+ comments gets me in trouble sometimes.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Bullshit
You can’t entirely pin the blame for the fall of the Ming Dynasty on rebel leader Li Zicheng. What about the gradual westernization of China through increased trade with the West and the difficulties put onto the ruling party through a population boom and territory expansion?
Certified Grabbo Lover
Should I mention
the spice ships?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
well, the spice IS life after all
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 12, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like we're not the only optimistic ones
Not sure if you guys saw this yet but check out this link.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/powerrankings
And this ranking was written prior to Finger-waiving!
At what point do you stop refining; rebuilding and finally work with what you have?
Ok
here’s the results of my “poll” of the current NHL rosters.
564 skaters and 83 of them draft eligible in 2006 or later. That’s 14.7% of the NHL. That means 85.3% of the NHL’s skaters were drafted BEFORE 2006… which means a lot of those peripheral jobs that are held by AHL’ers and journeymen, etc. won’t open up for a few more years.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
And that's WITH
a trend towards younger roster players… middle class being squeezed out etc.
My point is, 14.7% is pretty far from giving us a good read on who the “good” players from that draft are just yet… the BEST ones are probably in the NHL already… the rest are still working their way there.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and in that 14.7%
are the top of the 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 draft classes also.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 12, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Wisniewski suspension.
Pisses the hell out of me so much. How the hell does making a cocksocker motion warrant a larger suspension than two-hand slashing the hell out of someone in a malicious, deliberate manner. I guess NHL brass still feels that society is more apprehensive towards sexuality than violence. Bullshit.
I just realized this is probably too negative for such a happy thread. Sorry for being a downer, I just can’t believe this crap.
by fatassjackson on Oct 12, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
FTB
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
probably should have realized that too sorry, bad day.
by fatassjackson on Oct 12, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
no worries
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Finally, Jeff Finger is trending on twitter.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Oct 12, 2010 6:22 PM EDT reply actions
I kinda feel bad for Jeff Finger.
I mean, glad he isn’t on the roster any more, but still.
Sure the 3.5 mil per is a nice soothing balm to the pain of demotion but…
Wait a sec – 3.5 mil for riding the bus and playing hockey? Screw you, Jeff Finger!!!
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Oct 12, 2010 6:25 PM EDT reply actions
Welp.
Not much for me to add to this Finger thing that hasn’t already been said. I have to confess I was a bit shocked to see it actually happen, even if the writing was on the wall.
Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?
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