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'Punchless Leafs' or Just Hot Goalies?

Editor's Note: Nirbo takes an interesting look at the received wisdom that the Leafs make their opponents' goalies look like Vezina condidates.

A recent headline from Damien Cox carried a familiar, if tired, refrain: the Leafs have trouble finishing their opportunities. Ten months past the Jason Blake era, and the accusation still persists that the Leafs do not make their shots count.

Now, obviously, the Leafs aren't scoring enough because they are second-last in the league in shots per game at 26.6. But if they still can't score even when they do shoot, they're headed for the basement. A team shooting percentage of 8.65% is below league average, so maybe there is some merit to the claim.

When I think about the Leaf games I've watched this season, though, I'm not immediately convinced. After the jump are the numbers so we can take a look.

Star-divide

The claim can be easily tested by looking at opposing goalies' save percentages in each Leaf game this season and comparing this to performance in other games this season, as well as career numbers. For purposes of this shallow exercise I'm going to set aside issues of statistical significance.

Lundqvist's two games are both counted.

Career average is unweighted.

Game Opponent Goalie Leaf Games   Rest of Season Career
      Shots Goals Sv% Shots Goals Sv%  
07-Oct Montreal Canadiens
Carey Price 24 3 0.875 248 21 0.915 0.912
09-Oct Ottawa Senators
Pascal Leclaire 38 5 0.868 65 5 0.923 0.903
13-Oct Pittsburgh Penguins
Marc-Andre Fleury 14 4 0.714 132 16 0.879 0.906
15-Oct New York Rangers Henrik Lundqvist 38 4 0.895 204 18 0.912 0.918
18-Oct New York Islanders Dwayne Roloson 30 1 0.967 116 11 0.905 0.91
21-Oct New York Rangers Martin Biron 25 1 0.96 25 5 0.8 0.91
23-Oct Philadelphia Flyers
Brian Boucher 14 2 0.857 74 7 0.905 0.9
26-Oct Florida Panthers
Scott Clemmensen 27 3 0.889 6 0 1 0.909
28-Oct Boston Bruins
Tim Thomas 20 0 1 165 3 0.982 0.919
30-Oct New York Rangers Henrik Lundqvist 36 0 1 204 18 0.912 0.918
      266 23 0.9135 1239 104 0.9161 0.9105

Through 156 games this year, average save percentage in the NHL is .9095. Leaf opponents' mark is .9135, which represents a difference of about a goal prevented per 10 games. While this probably translates to a win or two over the course of the season, it isn't a large difference.

Comparison to career numbers tells the same story. Leaf opposition goalies average a career mark of .9105, and this drops to .9097 if we only count Lundqvist once. The Leafs have faced what is essentially a league-average mix of goaltenders so far, but they have succeeded at an above-average rate.

The healthy chunk of salt you've been looking for, however, appears when we look at the numbers against the rest of the league. The goalies we've faced have stopped the rest of the league at a tidy .916 rate this year, almost another .1 goal/game.

These differences are pretty small, and we cannot rule out noise as an explanation. Nonetheless, when I look at these numbers, particularly when the sample has been taken directly after back-to-back shutouts against, the conclusion is that our shooting percentage has been unlucky.

The Leafs have faced goaltenders who, as a group, have performed above the league average, and above their own previous standards.

It isn't reasonable to expect to face above-average goaltending all season, and the early results suggest the Leafs are actually slightly ahead of the curve in beating the goaltenders they have faced.

Have we been running into hot goaltenders? Yes we have.

Are the Leafs the reason they've been hot? No.

Luck has a funny way of evening out over a long enough period. If the first month of the season is any indication, the Leafs are due for slightly softer goaltending in the future, whether they can figure out how to hit the net or not.

 

Looking forward to any comments, criticisms and caveats.

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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Comments

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I like your conclusions. How does this stack up to last year? We seemed to make goalies look good last year as well, plus there’d be more data for analysis which would likely give a more accurate idea of how the Leafs performed.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Nov 1, 2010 3:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Agree

This is great but I think it would be even better to look back at last year too which was another year in which the team’s offence struggled.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Nov 1, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Though the personnel has turned over so much…

"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power

by The '67 Sound on Nov 1, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually did look at last year’s team. Not this analysis. I compared last year’s s% to their career numbers. If last year’s team took exactly the same number of shots but hit their career averages in s% we would have scored like 20 more goals. It was quite dramatic.

"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power

by The '67 Sound on Nov 1, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you do it in a post? Because it might fit in with something I am thinking about…

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Nov 1, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it never turned into a post. I’ll email you the data.

"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power

by The '67 Sound on Nov 1, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could you post it?

Looking at NHL.com stats by team i found that we had the 5th most shots in the league last year. Our winning percentage was .383. The next team with a winning percentage below .400 was atlanta, at 20th. The only other team below a winning percentage (in the top 20) of 0.450 is NYI at 0.405, at 13th (and if you want you can count philly and nyr who were 0.449 (8th) and 0.447(20th)).

we suffered the most losses (23 – tied with philly) when outshooting our opponent.

while i understand that quality of shots is important, I really think this speaks to how truly unlucky this team has been in the past. and how awful vesa toskala is.

believe it or not we took more shots and allowed fewer shots against than san jose. I am not trying to say we are better than san jose, or any team really.

 i don’t even know what i’m trying to say. i just found myself asking so many questions last year about how we can consistently outplay opponents (save for special teams) and still manage to lose games that are often close. we took 61 shots against dwayne roloson, then 40 years old, and still manage to lose the game. this is a valid question without a simple answer, as evidenced by the statistics i mentioned. last year’s leafs were truly an anamoly.

by the way i only joined this site recently and though i’ve been an avid leaf fan all my life i’ve only just recently managed to come across this site, and i love it…but my point is that you guys probably fleshed this all out last year and have done a lot of advanced statistic stuff that i haven’t seen, but if i could get an “amen brother” i would feel a lot better about life

by sportsfan2 on Nov 1, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome

Thanks for joining. We’ve looked at some of these things over the past couple of years but I’ll try to look at some of these over the next couple of weeks.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Nov 1, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

To reiterate what was said before, is it really worth doing a last years comparison when considering the massive turnover from last year to this year? I just a comparison of last year to this year might be interesting but at the same time the conclusions are already a given: Toskala was a sieve, blake and the rest of the team took low percentage shots, etc.

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Nov 2, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

blake and the rest of the team took low percentage shots

But that’s the point. There aren’t really low-percentage shots when you’re looking at shooting percentages.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Nov 2, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amen brother.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Nov 2, 2010 8:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

ahhhh that’s better

by sportsfan2 on Nov 2, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

type of shots??

Only problem with this analysis is that it assumes that the goaltenders face the same type of shots against other opposition as they do with the Leafs.. for e.g the Leafs don’t have anybody causing havoc in front of the crease so the goalies have an easier time stopping the shots making for a higher save %.

by spuck on Nov 1, 2010 3:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Shot quality has been studied extensively and it has minimal impact. There’s very little evidence the Leafs, or any other team, consistently shoot from low percentage areas.

I remember anecdotally we had a ton of close in chances against the Rangers, just couldn’t pop any of them.

"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power

by The '67 Sound on Nov 1, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's a really big problem looking at individual games

versus the overall season SV% numbers. The difference in sample sizes has a huge impact on the expected variance.

There just aren’t enough shots fired against individual goalies to make any of this very meaningful in the broader sense game to game.

I DO think looking at the list, that the Leafs lit up a few soft goalies in that first stretch of 4 victories, but they puck went in against Boucher and they couldn’t win one there either. Tim Thomas is stonewalling everyone, and Lundqvist is turning his game around… Dwayne Roloson likes to stymie the Leafs. Three good goaltending performances is not really a huge problem.

The REAL problem from a Leafs perspective is the lack of rubber actually making it to the goal. Too many blocked shots, and not enough shots on target. 26.6 is pathetically low as an average shot total, especially when one considers they have games where they fire over 90 attempts… it’s ridiculous, and that has nothing to do with opposition netminding.

The Leafs shooters are inept right now at generating offense, and taking advantage of the opportunities they’re given…. they miss the net on breakaways for chrissakes… Just look at Kulemin’s game on Saturday. He had 5 shots blocked, and he missed the net once, and then he had a whopping ZERO shots on goal. That’s not exactly useful.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 1, 2010 3:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed on all points. Although opposition goalies have played well (in some cases extremely well) in recent games against the Leafs, the much more pressing issue is the blocked shots and misses. Things like this are a vicious circle because as the players get more conscious about how many shots they’re blocking, they try to place their shots too perfectly and they miss the net. This is exacerbated by the lack of crisp passing, the lack of net presence, and lack of movement on the PP.

Most goalies, even the ones who stand on their heads, will give up at least a couple of goals if you put 40+ shots on target and make them make a save. In the last few games the Leafs could have had 40+ shots on net each night. That’s Toronto’s challenge right now. Get movement on the offensive zone, stop trying to pick corners, and make the goalie make the save.

by lucc on Nov 1, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

There seems to be an inordinate number of shots going high over the net. Almost like they feel they need to score on the first shot. Good teams will take a shot on net that may not have the greatest chance of going in figuring the shot will generate a rebound.

Thing is, with all the shots over the net or into the glove or into the breadbasket of the goalie we aren’t getting quality rebounds.

What percentage of our shots are first-shots and how many are rebound shots? I’d say this is one thing that is really killing our chances – lack of quality rebounds. What happens when there is a rebound? No one there to take advantage of it.

I rarely see the Leafs take a low, hard shot which forces the goalie to make a pad save which puts him out of position to save the rebound.

We have to look at goals like picking up someone in a bar – sure you would love to have the pretty one, but when left with the ugly one you still have to score.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 1, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

kinda grossed myself out there.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 1, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see the problem of a shot that generates a rebound wont help us as we “never” have someone in position to tap it in and if by some miracle we do, he will more likely than not be over powered. :(

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Nov 2, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

No disagreement

that this lacks statistical power. Also agree that shots on goal is the problem thus far, not shooting percentage. I did note this but I didn’t feel like dwelling on something that there is no controversy on.
One thing. This early in the season, very few statistically powerful analyses of any kind can be conducted on an individual team’s data. That doesn’t seem to stop the MSM columnists from making bold, blanket statements, though, and I saw an opportunity to disconfirm.
I can only respond to Damien Cox by saying “the data, while lacking in significance, do not support this hypothesis [‘Punchless Leafs are Goalie’s Best Friend’]”, and that’s fine by me. It becomes a question to be tested when we have more data, and now I have a prediction.

Anyway, if I was trying to post this in a more research or stats-based forum, I would’ve stopped at

These differences are pretty small, and we cannot rule out noise as an explanation.

From red line to red light in less than 12 parsecs.

by Nirbo on Nov 1, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

But you can back this up

Last year the Leafs were 29th in shooting percentage (Boston was slightly worse). Opposing goalies had a save percentage of 92.1%. The league average was only 90.8%. There is a foundation for saying the Leafs made other goalies look like Vezina winners.

This year is too short to draw definite conclusions from yet, as you note. However, in the past six games opposing goalies have had a save percentage of 94.6%. In the nine games where they didn’t play against Marc-Andre Fleury, their opponent save percentage is 92.3%. Except for that one game, there is no evidence so far this season that anything has changed from last season. There’s your noise.

This isn’t the final story: I believe that Desjardins has reams of data showing that on a team-wide basis ‘true’ shooting percentage does not differ very much from one team to another, indicating that the Leafs just continue to be unlucky. What the Leafs really need to do is pick up their powerplay; I’d be willing to place a bet that this is the reason their shooting percentage has been so low.

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on Nov 1, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s an interesting thought.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Nov 1, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

Since you’re interested, an average powerplay this season would have given them two more goals and an opposing save percentage (sans Fleury) of 90.8%. It wouldn’t be enough to explain last season though (roughly ten more goals would leave them at roughly 91.8%).

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on Nov 2, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

About Tim Thomas ...

“You’ve gotta at least ask the question.”

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Nov 1, 2010 3:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Tim Thomas stole all of Rask’s skill.

My protest worked! Mike Weber has been freed!
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.

by Ubiquitous on Nov 1, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ate it.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 1, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

In Thomas’ defense, Rask did hide it in a cheeseburger.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 1, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too bad Jeff O’Neill didn’t find it first.

Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAAAAYYYYY!!!1

by LeafBoy on Nov 1, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Steve Burtch hits the nail on the head – the shots aren’t getting through. Yes Lundqvist made some big saves Saturday, but the amount of shots the Rangers blocked speaks more to the Leafs lack of determination in the getting the puck to the net than it does the defensive prowess and gutsy play of the Rangers. On a related note, there were huge stretches in the last 2 games where the Leafs were controlling play in the offensive end, but didn’t have guys going to the front of the net. This was especially evident on the PP. For a team struggling to score goals, the short term solution can’t get any simpler than that. This is an area where the lack of size in the top six is especially glaring.

Here’s a suggestion that I haven’t heard to many people making, but I think warants some discussion. Try Versteeg at centre. It was generally noted in the media when the Versteeg trade first broke that one of his greatest assets was his versatility and ability to play all 3 forward positions. He put up 20 goals and 44 points centering Chicago’s third line last season while maintaining stellar defensive numbers. Despite the fact he hasn’t had much offensive success in the first 10 games this season, it’s evident that at least he has some creativity to his game and is not a liability in his own end. Lets take this a step further; if Kadri can put up consistent numbers playing on the wing in the AHL for the next 10 or 15 games, bring him up and put him on a line centered by Versteeg – a guy who can cover his own end but still has offensive creativity enough to mesh with true goal scorers.

It’s possible that at some point this season Burke will pull the trigger on a deal that brings in a bonafide 1st line centre, but until that happens the Leafs don’t appear to have a tone of options. They brought in Versteeg to give them some flexibility up front and now would appear to be an excellent opportunity to take advantage of that.

by Freshtracks on Nov 1, 2010 5:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn’t be opposed to putting Versteeg at centre, and I’d actually like to see a line with him at centre and Grabovski on the wing. Grabbo hasn’t been effective so far and maybe simplifying his game by putting him on the wing would help him out a bit. Versteeg has better vision than Grabbo and he’s more gifted offensively. Getting the puck on his stick more often in a centre’s role would help him a lot IMO.

by lucc on Nov 1, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome

Thanks for joining.

I think that Versteeg at centre could be one of Wilson’s next blends.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Nov 1, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a bad thought at all. My only concern in that scenario is what to do with Bozak. I’d like the KBK line to get a bit more time, though, they really looked OK late last year.

From red line to red light in less than 12 parsecs.

by Nirbo on Nov 1, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude. Don

Ummmmmm, at worst, goalies are 0.004 better against us than league average.

We’ve only taken 266 shots.

If the “hot” goalies we’d faced had played at league average, then we’d have scored 1 (one) goal more.

by not norm ullman on Nov 1, 2010 6:48 PM EDT reply actions  

In short, it’s too early for most of the stats people are throwing around, because when even one goal changes things, then the stats are being made to carry too much weight.

by not norm ullman on Nov 1, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we can monitor the numbers without getting too caught up in assumptions. As I posted to Steve, though, this was motivated as a response to a claim that never gets backed up with numbers. Maybe I’ll revisit later in the season when we can say a bit more in conclusion, but this was Cox’s column today.

I completely agree that a difference of .004 in save percentage is negligible after only a few hundred shots. It works out to about ten goals over a 2486 shot season, which could be a couple of wins and ranking spots.

We’re on pace for 14% less shots than last year’s league average of 30.3, though…

From red line to red light in less than 12 parsecs.

by Nirbo on Nov 1, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does anyone have data for shots missing the net or shots blocked?

This is the place where I felt like the world's tallest self-supporting tower.

by A Lindros Jaw on Nov 1, 2010 9:37 PM EDT reply actions  

nhl.com

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Nov 1, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cuss, it’s under “Real Time”. Apart from all those other stats which happen just when-thefuck-ever.

This is the place where I felt like the world's tallest self-supporting tower.

by A Lindros Jaw on Nov 1, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Punchless Leafs’ or Just Hot Goalies?

What about option C? Punchless Leafs and hot goalies.

Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.

by mf37 on Nov 1, 2010 11:17 PM EDT reply actions  

that sounds like a calendar in the making. who’s Mr. July?

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Nov 2, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why is every goalie ‘hot’ just because they play Toronto? No, it’s our lack of offensive skill and guys willing to go to the net. But hey, we do have some pretty darn good perimeter players and did draft, uh, what was that guy we took in the first round?

by dsciswe on Nov 1, 2010 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Herp derp a derp

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Nov 2, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Leafs need something to change…God, I hope Wilson can figure it out. Can’t be shout out by the Sens.

by PhilSpecter on Nov 2, 2010 12:14 AM EDT reply actions  

What you fail to take into consideration.

The leafs just aren’t unlucky they are shooting poorly. When they have a shot in the low slot it isn’t luck that determines if it goes in or not. It is shot placement. I know that statistical evidence exists to prove that shot “quality” doesn’t effect the stats too much, but what did they do to prove this? Did, they take into account, where the shot was going relative to the goalie and the position on the ice. How fast the shot was, and if there was a screen in front of the goalie. A quality shot is all of those things. If you receive a pass into the low slot from the side and the goalie was playing the shot not the pass and you shoot straight into the middle of the net it is not a bad shot. However, if you are in the low slot and the goalie is straight a head putting it at the middle of the net is bad idea. Either pick the corners or just above the leg pads or the shoulder. That is if the goalie is butterfly as it is in todays world. However, too often I see the leafs fire it straight into the goalie. That is a bad shot, and it happens to be a large percentage of the shots they took during their shut outs. Though I do blame the ref for calling the play dead when Kessel had the puck and was about to put it in the open cage. I wonder why that didn’t get as much coverage as the Orr interference non-call. Phil getting a goal early in the game would have shut the crowd up, and got him and the team reved. Instead they all just started to hold their sticks too tight. Anyways, the leafs to need to aim better, and get traffic.

by CaptainPash on Nov 2, 2010 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Welcome

Thanks for joining.

Here are some good links to start with:

Here are the regression to the mean numbers:

http://www.behindthenethockey.com/2010/5/28/1490918/more-on-goal-scoring-and-true

Here’s an article about Sedin, showing that a guy who shoots 20-for-100 expects a 13.2% sh% going forward:

http://www.behindthenethockey.com/2010/1/22/1264438/henrik-sedin-what-does-his

Here’s one from Vic on defensemen (not) influencing save percentage:

http://vhockey.blogspot.com/2010/05/forest-v-trees.html

Basically, if you look at an individual shot, as you are in all of your examples, then yes, shot quality matters. But if you start looking at a player’s entire season or entire career or the team’s entire catalogue of shots then shot quality doesn’t exist because of, as I understand it, the law of large numbers.

But you’re right, either way, the Leafs need to create more chaos in front of the net.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Nov 2, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amazing how three shut-out losses in six games and just 15 goals in the last 10 answers this one pretty conclusively.

Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.

by mf37 on Nov 10, 2010 12:59 PM EST reply actions  

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