Giguere Out 1-2 Weeks

J.S. Giguere has a groin strain and will miss up to two weeks. James Reimer has been recalled from the AHL to backup Jonas Gustavsson and Ben Scrivens has been recalled from the ECHL to backup Jussi Rynnas.

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why not rynnas?

by sportsfan2 on Nov 17, 2010 4:34 PM EST reply actions

He’s starting on the Marlies and tearing down the biz, no sense in him riding the pine here.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 17, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions

yup, kid is hot like lava, let him play

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Nov 17, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions

I love when questions get answered

by sportsfan2 on Nov 17, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions

Time for the Monster to take the reins. He plays well enough and that starting job is his. Glad that Reimer was the one called up.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 17, 2010 4:34 PM EST reply actions

Reimer has played pretty well over the past two seasons (when not hurt)

The guy deserves a chance before Rynnas. I’d rather have Jussi keep destroying the A for awhile-he needs more games down there.

Reimer has earned his chance to practice and travel with the team.

Whether he gets a start or not in the next 2 weeks is wholly dependent on the play/health of Jonas.

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by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 17, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions

This can go 2-ways

either really badly, or not-so-badly.

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by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 17, 2010 5:06 PM EST reply actions

It could also turn out well

Over the past 2+ seasons, Giguere has basically established himself as a goalie who is average-at-best. So far this year he’s been less than average (which is still much better than Toskala). Gustavsson hasn’t been any better, but there is a realistic chance that he could be, and maybe now is the time.

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on Nov 17, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions

This is Monster’s time to shine, let’s hope he takes the reigns and never let’s go.

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by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 17, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions

Giguere is a “positional” goaltender which I believe translates to “average.”

by theninjagreg on Nov 17, 2010 7:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

I'm not in agreement with this

Over the past 2+ seasons, Giguere has basically established himself as a goalie who is average-at-best.

Really? 2+ seasons? 2007-08 the guy played 58 games with a 35-17-6 record, and .922 save percentage. 2008-09 (his only truly off season) he played 46 games and had a 19-18-6 record with a .900 save percentage. Last year he started out not so well with the Ducks, posting a 4-8-5 record in 20 games, along with a .900 save percentage again. Then he joins the Leafs for 15 games, goes 6-7-2 and posts a .916 save percentage.

So far this year he’s 5-5-2 with a .895 save percentage. If you think that’s largely HIS fault by all means do so, but personally I’d think it has a lot to do with the Leafs atrocious play over the past 3 weeks. In fact, in his past 5 starts, Giguere allowed a combined 17 goals on 139 shots, for a not so stellar .878 SV%. That’s 5 of his 12 total starts. In the previous 7 starts, he only allowed 16 goals on 176 shots, for a much better .909 SV%… and that was largely reduced by a game against the Rangers where he gave up 5 markers.

He’s had 6 very good games, and 6 not so great games… but he’s still a decent NHL goalie more often than not.

Earlier this year people were touting the strong play of Cam Ward, another Stanley Cup winning goalie on a weak team. In his last 5 games he’s allowed 17 goals on only 126 shots, for an even worse .865 save percentage. In his 10 starts prior to that he had allowed 27 goals on 359 shots for a ridiculously good .925 save percentage… but he isn’t suddenly a shit goalie because he’s played worse than Giguere recently is he? I’m guessing not.

So far this year he’s been less than average (which is still much better than Toskala).

Again, take this with a grain of salt. He’s only played 12 games, and half of them were very good, and half were pretty bad. He’s one of 6 players on the ice during a game, and he can’t score goals. Scoring goals at the other end, and dominating other teams from a puck possession perspective would go a long way to making him seem superior.

Gustavsson hasn’t been any better, but there is a realistic chance that he could be, and maybe now is the time.

I see no particular reason why Gustavsson shows an ability to drastically improve upon the goaltending provided by Giguere. Gustavsson has been better at even strength, but WORSE on the PK. In fact… of the 14 goals the Leafs have surrendered while short handed, Gustavsson has been in net for 6 of them (43% of them), despite playing in net for only 18 short handed situations, compared to Giguere’s 8 goals against in 39 short handed situations. He’s surrendering goals on a 1/3rd of the situations when they’re short handed, while Giguere is surviving 79.5% of the short handed situations unscathed.

BTW – 79.% PK rate with Giguere in net would put the Leafs 22nd in the NHL, while 66% from Gustavsson would put them DEAD LAST IN THE NHL. And it isn’t the top PPs in the NHL scoring on him either – Florida (29th), Boston (12th), Pittsburgh (24th), and Washington (7th)… really the Caps are the only team of the group that are particularly effective on the PP this year.

Giguere’s PK goals against are occurring against the likes of Vancouver (2nd), Tampa (6th), Philly (9th), NY Islanders (11th) and Ottawa (13th). He allowed 1 against 29th ranked Florida also.

So to review, Giguere is good on the PK, Gustavsson really hasn’t been… and on the PK, your goalie needs to be your best player for it to be successful, and I’m not sure Gustavsson is there yet. We’ll see how this shakes out, but it could still go either way, and I don’t think we should be declaring Giguere a sub-average NHL goalie considering how the Leafs have been playing in front of him.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions

08-09 year is also the year his father passed away in I believe Dec. He actually started the season well, but started to “unravel” after his father’s passing.

by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 17, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions

Yes

and his daughter’s birth was that year also I think… and she’s had serious medical complications since birth. He’s had some rough personal stuff in his life that’s likely affected his play. Losing your starters job less than 2 years after winning the Stanley Cup doesn’t really help either… and he’s had injury issues.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions

This being said

he was named to the All-Star team in the 2008-09 season… so it wasn’t all bad… despite the crappy numbers by the end of the year.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions

Fans voted him in as a starter, I believe. He wasn’t even the Ducks starter by the time of the all-star break.

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by James Mirtle on Nov 17, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions

daughter

or son? I can’t tell which is which… I’m exploring this now, and the wikipedia info says Maxime-Olivier is one of his 2 sons… and nothing about a daughter… I always thought he had a daughter.

Anyway… the kid was born with an eye defect during the Stanley Cup run… obviously it didn’t affect him negatively on that occasion… so maybe I’m exaggerating that issue.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions

i remember he left Anaheim for the final 3 regular season games to take care of the issue. So that was in the 06/07 season. Then he came back for the playoffs and backed-up Bryz until he got his mind right. Then went on to post oustanding numbers during the cup run: 13W, 4L, 1.97GAA and a .922%. What a guy!

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by SydDave on Nov 17, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions

In the first 12 games

of the 08-09 season (up to November 4th 2008) he picked up right where he’d left off winning the cup. He went 7-4-0 with a .916 SV%, and 2 shut outs.

From Dec. 23 through Feb. 20th of 2009 that same year, he went 3-8-2 in 14 games and had an .880 SV% while getting lifted out of 3 separate games.

Not so helpful that last stretch… and I’m not sure it was purely Giguere’s fault since Hiller went 8-9-0 from Dec. 22nd through Mar. 15th of 2009, with a not so great .907 sv%.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions

that december stretch is just after his fathers death if I remember right from another posters post a few months ago here.

by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 17, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions

Obviously I was deliberately leaving out 2007-2008 when I wrote “2+ seasons”. The .900 save proportion in 2008-2009 was well below league average, and the .907 from last year was also below average for a starting goalie (tied for 26th in the league among goalies with at least 30 games played). The .895 from this year obviously comes from a smaller sample set, but certainly it gives no indication that he’s ready to climb back to his career average of .913 which would itself be merely average for a starting goalie.

I acknowledged that Gustavsson hasn’t been any better. He has 48 career games played, which is a few less than Giguere’s 504. That’s not enough for a goaltender to establish his level. I really have no idea if he’ll be an above average NHL starter, but I assume it’s plausible or he wouldn’t be on the team.

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by Back In Black on Nov 17, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions

You're arguing career average

of .913 is “merely average” for a starting goalie?

Martin Brodeur’s career SV% = .914
Patrick Roy’s career SV% = .910
Roberto Luongo’s career SV% = .918
Evgeni Nabokov’s career SV% = .912

That’s 4 of the top goalies from the past 10-15 years in the NHL, and Giguere’s career SV% is right in the middle… and his number is “average” for a starting goalie?

That’s pretty strange.

Remember that the career .913 INCLUDES his past 2+ years. If you want his career number before the past 2+ years it was .915. So prior to his downturn of sorts, he had a superior career SV% to Martin Brodeur, Patrick Roy, and Evgeni Nabokov… and he was merely an average starting goalie to your argument?

Skewed…. Perspective…

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 18, 2010 7:27 AM EST up reply actions

He's also a Stanley Cup champ

and Conn Smythe winner … in separate seasons… he wasn’t an “average” starter in the NHL prior to his problems in the past 2 years.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 18, 2010 7:31 AM EST up reply actions

Marc-Andre Fleury, Chris Osgood and Antti Niemi have Stanley Cups too. Ask me if I think they’re above-average starting goalies.

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on Nov 18, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions

You've skewed the discussion

I did not say that Giguere has had an average career. His career includes several seasons that were well above average and earned him well-deserved accolades. I did say that there is reasonable evidence for me to conclude that those years are in the past. The best that I would expect from Giguere is a return to his career average – better than he’s performed over the past two seasons – and you will have to concede that .913 or .915 is simply average for a starting goalie in the 2010 NHL (for much of Roy’s career, .910 was excellent, not average, but goaltending has changed).

Anything better than average and I’ll be surprised. I’ve been surprised before – Belfour did it, and Nabokov’s numbers last year were surprising too – but I don’t see anything in Giguere’s play to suggest a return to his level from years ago.

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on Nov 18, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions

Argh. Giguere has posted a below-average sv% in 2008-09, 2009-10, and so far again this year in 2010-011. A stathead like you should know you the team in front of him has only a limited effect on SV%, and in fact the Leafs D this year has been the team’s strongest suit. They are limiting shots and chances.

There’s just no reason for us to think he is going to be a consistently league average or better goalie any more.

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by The '67 Sound on Nov 18, 2010 8:37 AM EST up reply actions

I'm happy about this.

Monster needs to play more. Also, both Marlies tendies have been excellent thus far. We’ll all have a better idea where the organization stands with goaltending by the time Giggy returns. Giggy should not have started yesterday. If Ronnie is about accountability, then the softie against Raymond should have been enough to warrant a start for Gustavsson, who has played well. Also not sure why Rynnas didn’t get the call…

by AutoKAD on Nov 17, 2010 5:11 PM EST reply actions

Likely because Rynnas has still played less than 20 professional games in North America.

I'm Hungry.

by fatassjackson on Nov 17, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions

Plus he needs all the starts he can get, something he won’t get if he’s called up.

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by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 17, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions

True

The monster will, barring injury or terrible performance, start each game until Giggy returns.

I'm Hungry.

by fatassjackson on Nov 17, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions

Then again neither had Bobrovsky and that’s turning out not too shabby for the Flyers.

I'm Hungry.

by fatassjackson on Nov 17, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions

Neither did Boucher or Leighton, throw any of them in our lineup and watch them fall..

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by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 17, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions

They're the Flyers

if you look at their Forwards and D, you could probably put Andrew Raycroft in net and he’d look like an all-star.

No offense to Bobrovsky, but he doesn’t have to be spectacular. He’s got good numbers, but if you look at who he’s beating it’s not the best in the NHL generally.

He’s got 2 wins over Carolina, 2 over the Islanders, 1 over Buffalo, 1 over Florida, and they’ve beaten a not so stellar Pittsburgh 2 times also. That’s 8 of his 11 wins… so… yeah… grain of salt.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions

He's lost to

Washington, Anaheim, Montreal, and Pittsburgh. If you compare the team’s he’s losing to vs. the ones they’re beating, he isn’t playing the role of super-starter just yet.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions

Love it when Jay Onrait says his name though.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 17, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions

Lets see what he can do when he faces teams that aren’t bottom feeders (or suffering from below-average goaltending in Pittsburgh’s case)

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by Kevin Sellathamby on Nov 17, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions

Yea, someone mentioned how unsustainable the Flyers recent hot-streak has been, that being said good teams win in situations like those, gotta take the Ws regardless.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 17, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions

Reimer has been a good soldier for the Marlies, he def deserves the first call-up. Rynnas is doing just fine where he is.

The only way I want to see Rynnas in a Leafs uniform this year is if both Giggy and Monster go down (knock on wood)

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by nhlcheapshot on Nov 17, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions

And even them, Reimer deserves at least a shot, he has played well on some terrible Marlies teams.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 17, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions

Rynnas is continuing that trend

the Marlies are getting absolutely SHELLED. They had no business getting the game against Hamilton to a shoot out (where they subsequently lost). They’ve allowed an average of 30 shots against per game, but in their past 8 games they’ve allowed over 40 shots 3 times, and are averaging 36.5 shots against per game.

Not exactly solid D if they plan on winning games.

Also – Rynnas needs to work on shoot outs a bit in all likelihood, while Reimer is good in those situations based on his stats from previous years.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions

Hopefully the Marlies can improve, I thought they’d be better this year.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 17, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions

Their goaltending is a strength

which is a huge boost frankly. They’re winning games, but their D is a bit off right now.

they’ve had Aulie, and Holzer both called up intermittently, and Jeff Finger is dropped on them. That affects team D probably.

Also there’s a lot of young players on the team, so they’ve got something to learn. It’s a work in progress.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions

Very true, do you follow them? How is D’Amigo developing?

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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Follow my foray in fancy facial follicles

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 17, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions

He's played better

since Zigomanis has been playing with him and Mueller… but the production isn’t really there yet. He’s still young though.

I haven’t watched as much as I like… it’s been a busy couple of weeks for me. Hopefully I can take in a few games live over the holidays… that’s the plan at least.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 7:59 PM EST up reply actions

Wish they were on more often, I’d like to be able to follow them. At this point I’m happy with him rounding out his defensive game, the production will come.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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Follow my foray in fancy facial follicles

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 17, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions

Rogers TV

carries the games at home a lot, and Leafs TV has a few… and CBC is even carrying some.

Part of the problem right now is the 10 game road trip because of the Royal Winter Fair… they’ll be back soon though.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 17, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions

Makes sense, I have Bell, and am looking forward to the Sunday afternoon Marlies games this winter. I’ll make an effort to watch when I can.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 17, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions

They’ve gotten shelled the past few games, but that could also be a part of being on the tail end of a 10-game road trip that started in Texas. They’re probably dead tired before the puck even drops.

by handknit on Nov 18, 2010 1:29 AM EST up reply actions

I think you have to give you’re athletes a chance to respond right? Remember when Hasek was crap during the recent Wings cup vuctory in 08? Babcock gave him a chance to rebound in the Nashville series at it didn’t work, then he turned to Osgood. You have to believe a coach knows what he is doing when handling his players.. right?

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by SydDave on Nov 17, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions

It's time.

I really think the timing is right for this. Jonas needs to show us some of the progress that he’s made over the past year and what he’s actually capable of now. He looked pretty solid coming into the 3rd period the other night cold, and he ended up making some key saves that could of sent us into OT. I dunno about anyone else, but I’d really like to see what Gustavsson can do now.

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by CBJCousins on Nov 17, 2010 5:24 PM EST reply actions

Giguere hasn’t really been the problem this year. His last 2 starts weren’t very good. Maybe that Philly game too. Otherwise, no worse than the rest of the team.
If the Leafs start winning and can afford to put Reimer in for a start – that would be great

by MapleLeafMole on Nov 18, 2010 10:09 AM EST reply actions