An Open Letter to Brian Burke
by Karina on Nov 30, 2010 12:41 AM EST
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PrintI posted this to LeafsHQ but I'm trying to get as wide an audience as possible. Here you go.
Dear Mr. Burke,
I am writing you in regards to the interview you did on TSN’s That’s Hockey on the second anniversary of your hiring as the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs. During this interview, when asked about the idea that the majority of Leafs Nation are mad, you said:
"I don’t sense that at all. The fans I talk to are season ticket holders, they see the progress, they understand it’s a process and they see the progress that’s been made, the upgrades in net, the upgrades on defence. I don’t buy that for one second that I need to offer some type of statement to the angry fans. I think most of our fans get it and I think they understand what we’re trying to do."
Now I wholeheartedly agree that you don’t need to do anything to make a statement to the angry fans. Making moves just to placate a fan base is sure-fire way to make a bad decision. But this notion that fans are not angry – or that somehow the opinions of season’s ticket holders may be more valid than those of fans whose pockets are not deep enough to afford them – is at the very least erroneous, and at worst nearly delusional.
We are angry. Mr. Burke, you have only been in Toronto for two seasons with no playoffs. Us fans are staring into the face of what looks like a 6th consecutive season without seeing our team play in the post season. I don’t have to tell you that this is a franchise record – in fact, 5 seasons was. We have been hearing the 1967 chants for a long time, Mr. Burke, and there seems no hope of them ending anytime soon.
Speaking of which, is there a reason you are in a hurry? You signed a 6 year contract when you came to Toronto. You have a fan base that has already suffered through some terrible times – I’m sure you’re familiar with the quality of teams that wore the Blue and White in the 80′s – and a huge base of seasons ticket holders who aren’t going anywhere. There’s no reason to be in a rush with the Toronto Maple Leafs. As fans, we would just like to see this team win – and if it takes 5 years out of your 6 year contract do it, then so be it. But being told two years in that you’re "in a hurry"? Well that’s worrisome.
We are angry, Mr. Burke. We’re so angry, we’ve started taking our anger out on each other. People who want to believe in what you’ve been doing argue with people who think a proper, draft based rebuild was the path to take. We insult each other, we insult you, we insult the coach and we insult the players. From top to bottom, we are frustrated.
With the Christmas trade freeze quickly approaching and the landscape of the NHL salary cap making trades extremely difficult, I’m not asking for action. I’ve seen the look on your face in the press box. I know you’re working hard to make this team better. But please, when speaking with the media, you don’t have to make excuses or try to pretend that we are not angry. We are.
PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.
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Agree
Watching that interview made me cringe when he referred to season-ticket fans as seemingly the only fans that matter and that they aren’t angry. This actually makes me wonder if Burke is even aware that the overwhelming majority of die-hard fans probably get to a game or two a year if they’re lucky? C’mon Burkey, you might be irrational sometimes but never downright stupid or ignorant.
And you’re “in a hurry” to win? Since when does that become the priority over doing what’s in the best interests of the team. Based on the results we’ve seen so far, doing things “in a hurry” certainly appears to be mutually exclusive with doing things “correctly”. And seriously, having the youngest team in the NHL most nights doesn’t appear conducive to winning quickly.
Based on the results we’ve seen so far, doing things "in a hurry" certainly appears to be mutually exclusive with doing things "correctly"
The problem here is the shorthand that “fast” is usually associated with reckless, careless, or sloppy.
“In a hurry” to me meant that he wants to pull this team up to ‘playoff hopeful’ status fairly quickly (this season was probably his hope) and then continually replenish & improve as your team takes more and more steps towards contender status.
“Slow rebuild” to me is proven to be an unfortunate crapshoot that can yield no fruit. Ovechkin/Backstrom, Toews/Kane, Crosby/Malkin – these are the exceptions that every team likes to think is the rule.
If we had tanked in 3 straight years, and had – let’s say – picks 2, 3, 2, where might the “slow rebuild” take us?
If we had finished that stretch with van Riemsdyk, Bogosian, Hedman, would anyone be giddy with the Stanley Cups that are sure to follow? Because I sure as hell wouldn’t be.
After 3 years of bottom-of-the-barrel standings, and 3-5 more years of watching and waiting for these picks to show their peak, what would we do when this team is nowhere near contender-status? Book off another 6-8 year stretch so a new “slow rebuild” can get started by another GM?
Burke looks like he has already revamped the development system. Hopefully the draft system is at least as good as the one that JFJ had (and he drafted well, don’t kid yourself). When some of these youth emerge in the next year or two, we can see what complimentary pieces Burke can/will have in place, and how this rolling machine will finally start working.
by Death_By_Leafs on Nov 30, 2010 3:26 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
In the meantime, everyone needs to remember that a 2 game stink-fest is not the end of the universe.
(not at you Karina, but everyone who seems to be so frustrated right now)
It’s a little more than just two games isn’t it? That week we went 2-1 seems like more of a death bounce now than anything. If we don’t pull out of this soon, we might have another stretch of a couple of weeks where we don’t win a game at all. I really really hope not though.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 30, 2010 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
Really? I thought a two game losing streak meant automatic elimination from the playoffs. Silly me.
Your first comment is thoughtful and well-informed (even if I disagree) but this is just unhelpful condescension.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Nov 30, 2010 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
Condescension? Really?
we might have another stretch of a couple of weeks where we don’t win a game at all.
automatic elimination from the playoffs
The majority here seem ready to string up Burke, and have given up all hope for this season, and any season in the next 5 years.
Chill out, people.
by Death_By_Leafs on Nov 30, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Actually I think people have given an awful lot of well-thought out reasons why we are dissatisfied with Burke’s work. Just because you disagree doesn’t mean we need to “chill out”. It would be like me telling you to “get real”. Instead, I told you I respected (though disagreed with) your main comment.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Nov 30, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
I get your position I just don’t understand the relevance of a lot of these points towards a greater cumulative dissatisfaction. After the overhaul of his initial 18 months, I see this as Year 1 for Brian Burke’s version of the Toronto Maple Leafs. I see no reason to be dissatisfied when a first-year team finishes last or next to last.
Ultimate mark of success is a Stanley Cup. He has obviously failed to deliver that thus far.
With that as the long-term goal, how many short-term trends matter? Why does a 4 or 11 or 20 game losing streak matter this year? Why should the Lebda signing or the Komisarek contract cause any angst or frustration when viewed from the long lens – these guys wont be around when it matters.
Losing game after game is not fun or enjoyable, but I see no connection between the record that the 2010-11 team finishes with and the performance of the team come 2013 or 2014.
He hasn’t said “This is your team, this is the team I think will be good enough for Toronto”.
He’s done a complete demolition job on the previous roster. Right now there are a bunch of tents & chalk lines laid out. I’ll save my opinion on dissatisfaction once I know what the final building is actually supposed to look like.
by Death_By_Leafs on Dec 1, 2010 3:04 AM EST up reply actions
I’d agree with this if I thought Burke was on a 6 year plan. But he has repeatedly said he’s in a hurry, which the Kessel deal confirms. You suggest 2013/14 as a target date, but if that’s true guys like Seguin and likely-lotto-pick-2011 would be more valuable than Kessel in the last year of his deal and about to go UFA.
Basically, I wish Burke actually had the patience that I have, that you apparently have, and that you ascribe (IMHO, incorrectly) to Burke.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Dec 1, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A comment so nice, I had to rec it twice.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 1, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Anything’s possible re: why the Kessel deal was done, but I still think that it was made because sub 22 year old 30+ goal scorers don’t become readily available every day of the week.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 1, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
4-11-3 is more than 2 games.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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So where were all these letters to Brian Burke and calls of disaster before/during/after the Dallas game?
Where was the despair & sadness when they beat the Devils 3-1, after coming back in the Predators game?
Fans seem to have gotten more bi-polar than ever here. Bliss & contentment with a couple wins; the depths of angst & rage with a couple losses.
by Death_By_Leafs on Nov 30, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
This letter is solely in response to Burke’s assertion that Leaf fans “aren’t mad.”
I am far more patient than most people. I actually do see progress like he claims fans do. But just because there’s been progress doesn’t mean I’m not mad.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Nov 30, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
I get that, but to me the team-based anger is akin to being angry at a 5-year-old because they aren’t tall enough to reach the high shelves yet. They will get there.
This is not a mature team that is terribly underperforming, this is an underdeveloped team that is not yet ready. They just need time.
And regarded the comment-based anger from what Burke said: isn’t it possible that we are reading too much into the subtext of his comment? That perhaps the only fans he speaks with are season ticket holders, and this was just a statement of fact?
I can’t imagine many people going up to Brian Burke at a meet & greet and telling him off to his face. He probably doesn’t read or care about the opinions of the MSM. There is probably zero chance that he has any pulse on the Barilkosphere.
We may just be taking too much offense at a comment that really means nothing.
by Death_By_Leafs on Dec 1, 2010 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
I think, if I may follow your analogy, that people are looking at the 5 year old and saying “ok, he’s 5, I get it, but I’m not seeing enough talent and potential in this 5 year old that she’ll grow into anything more than a middle of the pack 23 year old”
If we were watching more budding young superstars there’d be a sense of building anticipation,
So I guess here’s the way of putting it: Mentally fast forward a few years, is a grown up and developed core of Kadri, Kessel, Schenn, and Gustafson (assuming they all turn out really well) enough to be confident you’re going to have a dominant team. Add to that a layer of good non-star players in Kuli, Grabbo, maybe Bozak, and a generally solid D…
That’ll be a better team than this one, for sure, but is it a team that the other elite teams (whoever the new Chicago/Wings whoever are) are affeared to play?
There’s still some time for Burke to add pieces of course… It’s not at all clear where they’d come from, but not that was true of much of the current crop as well.
Anyway I don’t know. It seems to me like we don’t have as much star power as the real contenders there… but coming across genuine stars is a rather fluky and unreliable business.
People go up to Ron Wilson when they see him in Toronto and swear in his face.
I see no reason why Burke wouldn’t receive the same treatment.
Whether or not Burke believes what he is saying is an entirely different matter (I think most of the time he doesn’t) but stating fans are not mad when they are is erroneous.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 1, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
He obviously stated that he knows some fans are angry, but didn’t treat them as either a) a majority, or b) relevant.
If 90% of Leaf Nation is swearing in their living rooms and turning off the game in the 2nd period, why would it reach Burke? Are they cancelling their Leafs TV packages? Are eyeballs dropping on CBC/Rogers/TSN broadcasts?
Season ticket holders are the first litmus test of a pro sports team. If the people who are spending the most money (and who have actually invested the most in the team) are not threatening to withdraw their support, then why would any President/CEO think that there is valid evidence of fan dissatisfaction?
TFC has staged fan town-hall meetings, and have threatened to stop going to games because of the lack of playoff appearances. Nothing of the sort is even bubbling among Leaf fans. There were many corporate boxes that were not renewed a year or two ago during the recession, and I don’t know if they have since been picked up again, but the sense from the ticket-holding fans is not of revolt.
Like I said, just because we yell at our TVs doesn’t mean the team can hear our frustrations. Burke is not looking at us directly and pooh-poohing our concerns to our faces. To react as if he has is unnecessary additional anger in my opinion, when (as everyone here knows) what he says and how he says it has little to do with what he does or how he operates.
by Death_By_Leafs on Dec 1, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Sure.
Just making it clear to him. I think he actually is aware of what’s going on in the fandom, and it makes me feel better to write this.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 1, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Frankly
There are larger motivations for writing this than you are assuming.
I wrote it for a reason and I think it’s a pretty valid one and would appreciate it if you could accept that.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 1, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Nope, sorry. No validation for you. Back of the line.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 1, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Possibly, but I can only guess what they are and respond to those in abstract
I just try and diffuse anger since I usually don’t see the need for it when it comes to the current incarnation of this team.
1) Therapeutic “Serenity Now” reasons: Sometimes you just want to gather some thoughts on paper (er.. screen) and there’s no better place than the Barilkosphere.
2) Anger at being condescended to: This may or may not be the proper connotation of Burke’s words, and if they are, you are entitled to your anger if it offends you.
But not being considered a ‘real fan’ by Brian Burke is as meaningless to me as an outsider calling Leaf fans ‘dumb sheep’ with the old “MLSE doesn’t care about winning because they still make money” routine. What Burke says is irrelevant. I want to see what he does.
3) Anger at Burke being “in a hurry”: From Day 1 Burke said he was not interested in a slow rebuild through many years of bottom finishes. He has not changed his stance. If you are angry at this then it might be related to #4.
4) Anger at Burke’s general strategy or philosophy to team building: Even though you’re one of the hopeful ones, you might still disagree with the approach Burke has taken. That is your opinion obviously, and you’re free to hold it.
I usually try to reply to every negative opinion with examples of why his approach holds promise, even if it may not be the easiest to stomach or most readily apparent.
5) Anger at 6 missed seasons of playoffs:This is almost entirely to do with the tenure of JFJ, and to a lesser extent certain moves made by Pat Quinn & Cliff Fletcher.
6) Anger at the lack of success since 1967, and “the drought”: This has nothing to do with Brian Burke or anyone else, and is unnecessary projecting. What happened to the sentiments of the summer? I thought these frustrations had been laid to rest by most regulars here.
7) Anger at the team’s lack of current success: As I’ve said, I think this is unfounded as many of the pieces are simply not ready. May be connected to #4.
8) Anger at the coaching: Entitled to your opinion, but due to my view on #7 I don’t think this would change much.
9) Frustration at the negative atmosphere surrounding this team from your fellow fans: People might be angry for many of the reasons mentioned above (or others) and choose to use the internet to be nasty & snippy. To that I can only say don’t let the Negative Nancies bring you down. Haters gonna hate. Etc etc.
10) Despair at the distinct lack of animals:
Resolved.
by Death_By_Leafs on Dec 2, 2010 4:47 AM EST up reply actions
That’s the best reason to do it.
I’m enjoying the expanded output your new forum has facilitated.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Dec 1, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 1, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
TFC is different because there are only 5 years worth of fans. The fanbase is so small that it’s easy to create the illusion of widespread malaise.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Dec 1, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Probably not an illusion?
I’m not a TFC fan, but it doesn’t seem like an illusion from what I’ve heard – the fact that most of the ticket holders are pissed off would be a pretty accurate representation of the fanbase (being only 5 years deep).
Because there are so many Leaf fans, speaking to different groups of people would give you every range of opinions from “Brian Burke should never have been hired” to “Brian Burke will eventually bring a Cup to Toronto”.
I don’t think this same range of optimism exists around TFC right now.
by Death_By_Leafs on Dec 2, 2010 4:54 AM EST up reply actions
I mean that the supporters groups protests represented a small percentage of the fans. There’s definitely issues. The team’s got 17400 season ticket holders and no waiting list any more.
But it was never the angry mob that cared passionately. The vast majority of people that gave tickets up were making a clinical decision.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Dec 2, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Wins are like a drug.
We have this frustration and bother in life and we may take a drug/alchohol/medication to help relieve us from that issue that is so clearly there. We are relieved and even excited for a night or less, until the reality of the situation kicks in: We are losing. We would love to live in that winning world of the drug but that is not what seems to be the reality today. We are not bipolar, we just get so excited when we win and we want to stay there.
Finally we've stopped refining; rebuilding and begun to work with what we have.
PLAYOFFS!!!1
"Tell Sigmund Freud not to worry about his mother, I took good care of her last night. BOOYAH."
Certified Grabbo lover
Season ticket holders
As a long-time Leaf fan, I’m not “angry” – I reserve anger for serious things like wars and poverty. But I am extremely disappointed and pretty frustrated. The thing that I really disliked about Burke’s response, and the thing I think that most people are picking up on, is this idea that “season ticket holders” are the only people whose opinions matter.
I think that more than any other team in the NHL, the Maple Leafs make a lot of money from people who don’t go to games, or who only go to games very infrequently. I know I’ve personally owned a few Leafs t-shirts, a fairly expensive Leafs ball cap, I’ve subscribed to Leafs Interactive, etc. You could easily fill that kind of list for a huge number of other Leafs fans, probably in the hundreds of thousands. I don’t know how much money exactly the team makes from merchandising and things of that nature, but I’d be willing to bet it’s in the millions of dollars a year – money that the Leafs only get because they have such a huge, rabid fan base. I used to live in Toronto, and I live in Montreal now, and I can say that the amount of Habs merchandise I see people wearing here isn’t even close to what I saw in and around Toronto for the Leafs.
I understand that Burke inherited a mediocre team that was just barely treading water in the bottom half of the league, that there weren’t a lot of assets to start with, and that management is now trying to build a team that can compete long-term rather than short term. Most of the moves that Burke has made are moves that I think were good for the team. But the Kessel deal is just killing us. I don’t mean on the ice, where it’s lead to some short-term gains – I mean it’s killing the spirit of the fan base, which is sitting around watching what’s now looking like two lottery picks go to the Bruins for a player who is very talented, but not someone you can build a franchise around.
My problem with Burke’s appearance on TSN isn’t that he stood up for the team or tried to point out that most of his moves have been positive – those are things I like about him. What I dislike is this idea that only season ticket holders are worth listening to. That’s exactly the kind of thing that Leaf fans have been criticising management for for decades. Brian Burke was supposedly brought in to run things differently, and in some ways he is, but dismissing the vast majority of the fan base like that is the kind of condescension we’re all quite tired of dealing with.
by Draglikepull on Nov 30, 2010 7:03 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Welcome
Thanks for joining. Great comment. That comment is what bothers me the same.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I noticed something very peculiar last night
With 12.5 seconds to go, fans in the lower bowl were all sitting down.
A one-goal lead and a faceoff in our zone with 12.5 seconds to go, and everyone is sitting down.
12.5 seconds away from snapping a two-game losing streak. 12.5 seconds away from 4 consecutive victories on HOME ICE… Fans are just sitting there.
A hard fought 3-2 lead that could have been a 4-1 lead and only 12.5 seconds left to put it away. And the fans are just sitting there like nothing is happening.
A brilliant shift in the final minute by Mike Brown, sacrificing himself and his body to block shots and protect a one-goal lead. Luke Schenn ices the puck to kill off valuable seconds and provide needed relief. Brown is able to substitute because of the injury and goes to the dressing room with his head held high. Wilson calls a time-out. Fans remain seated.
35 saves for the amazing Gustavsson in another gutsy performance. The crowd doesn’t rise to their feet to show their appreciation for HIS effort and to help him close it out.
A solid team effort in front of the home crowd for 59 minutes and 47 seconds and fans in the lower bowl are just sitting there for the final face-off.
Is this normal behaviour for NHL fans in Montreal, Ottawa, Buffalo, or anywhere else?
This is what I noticed with 12.5 seconds to go. Then I noticed Dominic Moore was on the ice. Then it was tied.
It’s really sad to have such disparity of wealth in our society such that a franchise can be supported economically by people who have no appreciation or passion for the product, while being virtually unaffordable to middle-class and working class families.
These fat cats don’t even seem to like hockey. They just like sitting in the seat you want to sit in. They can afford to spend ridiculous money on things they don’t enjoy. Most people can’t afford those seats or would be seriously digging into their monthly budget to afford them, yet they are owned by people who can’t even be bothered to be IN them at the start of a period and can’t be bothered to get out of them and stand for the final minute of a one-goal game.
Most people scrape and save every dollar they earn. For some Leafs fans, hockey is a much needed escape from the dreariness and fatigue of daily work and toil. Yet the ACC atmosphere does nothing to encourage your enjoyment of THE GAME. Everything is geared towards encouraging the money flow, from your pocket into theirs. If you aren’t in on the scam, then you’re being scammed, and that’s all there is to it.
For a culture of losing without consequence, for a culture of apathy and entitilement, look no further then the season ticket holders in the lower bowl and the soul-less atmosphere they and MLSE have co-operatively created for our hockey team. And then wonder why the players look so uninspired most nights.
by general borschevsky on Dec 1, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I hope you posted that at your website
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 1, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
I copied and pasted it in today’s FTB comments. It’s beautiful.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Preach!
Rec’d. I can’t believe how emotionally invested I am in this team and how much comments like this and posts like Karina’s make me frustrated – not with the commenters themselves but with the circumstances the commenters bring to light.
I’m frustrated. I’m sick of losing. I’m sick of feeling like we’ll always lose. I need something, and soon.
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
I was at the game yesterday, and this is not restricted to the Gucci row seats
With about 2 or 3 minutes left in the game – a 3-2 game, mind you – dozens of fans began getting up out of their 300-level purples & greens and walking down the stairs and out the corridors.
Large groups of people just casually walking away like it was a fait accompli or like they couldn’t care about the final outcome.
It was shocking & dissapointing, and has more to say about the general cynicism of many Toronto sports fans than any particular rich group of ticket holders.
by Death_By_Leafs on Dec 1, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
No, I think this happens everywhere in all sports. I’ve never followed suit, but it’s quite common. And infuriating!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 1, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve seen it at Canucks games.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 1, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
I hate
People that leave games early. I can understand it if you are losing badly/winning badly, but still – STAY TO THE END AND SUPPORT YOUR GODDAMN TEAM. You paid for the seats, you might as well get full value
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
sometimes people have to get up up really early for work the next day and want to beat the mad rush out of the city…. i cant really blame people for that. the game appeared to be in control and it looked like the leafs had the win
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
i can. how many games do you go to that you have to leave early to get up the next day? suck it up and short yourself a couple hours sleep!
1-goal lead in the last minute is hardly having the game in control.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 2, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
you can also plan ahead and let everyone know you’ll be in late, or take the next day off.
or not go if you’re going to be a pussy about it.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 2, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
this just kills me. I can remember one junior hockey game and one football game in my lifetime where i left early, and in both cases my team was losing by a large margin. if your team is ahead or it’s at all close, where the fuck are you going? i mean, why buy tickets in the first place?
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 2, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Every professional sporting event I’ve been to, regardless of the city, has had fans that came late and fans that leave early. Who knows why they do it, but there’s no point in railing against it.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
Still, why buy tickets if you’re not going to watch? I’ve been late a handful of times but almost always make sure I catch the anthems.
Due to my stellar attendance record, I reserve the right to rail. So there.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 2, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
You absolutely have the right to rail. Rail on!
But don’t think it’s unique to Toronto and don’t think it’s ever going to change.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
Yeah it happens everywhere and really doesn’t mean anything.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 2, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
It means whatever you interpret it to mean.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 3, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think the bigger the city the worst the fans are for this because they depend more on public transit. Not being able to move the train times for TFC is a huge problem.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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by PPP on Dec 3, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Rob Ford hears your concerns and spits in your face.
by Death_By_Leafs on Dec 3, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
heh
It’s apparently a result of CN owning the tracks and GO renting them and because commercial rail has priority.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Dec 3, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
This has been an issue for ages.
Is it only now that it matters, because it’s affecting TFC fans? Really?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 3, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
haven’t you heard, the “war on cars” is over!
MOAR CARZ
MOAR GRIDLOKK
YAY DEMOCRACY
me & the rest of Toronto will see you all in the 20th century… I can’t wait until “Close Encounters” is available on Betamax
(grumble grumble)
by Death_By_Leafs on Dec 3, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
No
Now I know it’s an issue because it affects TFC fans. It never affected me before.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
this was pretty much what i was getting at
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 8, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
That was beautiful.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 1, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Great comment
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Dec 1, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Suggestion, Karina:
Why don’t you fax it to Brian Burke?
I agree with you, all fans matter, not just the season seat holders.
if he didn’t hear the boos tonight then he’s just being difficult
by Death_By_Leafs on Dec 2, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not about liking or disliking Burke. It’s not even about thinking he’s screwed up this team beyond repair.
I’m made we’re losing.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 3, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
this team may be shite at current, but it is far from “beyond repair” anyone who actually thinks that is wrongo bongo
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 3, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
No team’s beyond repair on a long enough timeline.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Dec 3, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Becaues if fans are angry it means Burke isn't doing a good job
Burke knows we’re angry; he just can’t admit it because it would mean he’s doing a lousy job.
There has to be a silver lining to this, the worst Leafs team I have ever seen and here it is – they are absolutely rock bottoming out. And believe me, this is a positive – there are no 1st round picks to trade away and no worn out veterans out there to drag into the fold to give us false hope.
The Leafs will hit rock bottom and they will have nowhere to go but up – and Burke is the one to do it. This isn’t a rock bottom team with John Ferguson Jr at the helm, functioning as a puppet for Peddie or Tanenbaum. Burke has doubled the scouting staff; he has hired the absolute best coaches; and he has brought respect and accountability to the entire organization. While I don’t believe that this is a 5 year rebuilding plan as he had hoped – I do believe it is a seismic shift in the foundation of the Leafs organization, one that will serve them well for 100 years, not 5.
After a 5 year rebuild whether they win the Cup or not ( it doesn’t look good) the Leafs will never again be a last place team. They will be more like the Red Wings organization; a venerable team in any sport – one that will make the playoffs more often than not; and the more you make the playoffs the more chances you have to win it all.
Would I have liked to see Seguin in a Leafs jersey tonight? Hell yes. But this isn’t a short term fix and Burke is the one to be the long term guy.
If Burke gets named the new President of MLSE, which I think is something that may have been promised to him before he left Anaheim – I think better days and decades are ahead for both Leafs and Raptors fans.
I hope Burke’s focus stays only with the Leafs. Who cares about the Raptors? And why would Burke be put in an authority position for a sport that he hasn’t been involved with for his entire life?
My optimism can beat up your optimism.
by Death_By_Leafs on Dec 4, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
.
If that’s the argument to not make Burke the president then there isn’t anybody who is likely to qualify as MLSE president – how many people out there with sports experience are available that have expertise in more than one sport??
First of all, the sale of MLSE will not include the real estate so it will be purely a sports company and Burke, more than anybody else, has spent time with many other sports organizations in other leagues analyzing what has and hasn’t worked for them. Second, Burke has experience at a league executive level as vice-president of the NHL. Third, can anybody explain what Dave Nonis’ reason would be to stick around Toronto when he could be the GM elsewhere? And why is Nonis giving speeches to the team? Because he’s been promised the GM job.
You read it here first.
And why is Nonis giving speeches to the team? Because he’s been promised the GM job.
You read it here first.
Welcome to two years ago when Nonis was hired.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
And again last year when he turned down an NHL job (Can’t remember where off the top of my head – was it Tampa?)
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 12, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Should have read NHL GM job.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 12, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
you’re right, i was just working on the assumption that last year was rock bottom. unfortunately i’ve been proven wrong so far this year. hoping that it turns around in time to salvage a top-20 season.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 5, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
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