83 games of 81: So, Kessel can score
by Nirbo on Nov 8, 2010 10:44 AM EST
Email
Print
The mood around the Kessel trade is downright grim these days, with Tyler Seguin in the NHL and our current slump making this year's first rounder look like a sweeter and sweeter plum to have forgone.
Part of the problem, I think, is that folk do not quite realize what we have in Kessel, since his streakiness masks his true production level. Missing training camp last year meant he never had the chance to place amongst the goal leaders.
Whatever numbers Kessel has been able to accumulate, he's done it in adverse circumstances:
- He missed training camp and the first 12 games of last season.
- For his centres, he has been blessed with Matt Stajan, Mikhail Grabovski, Tyler Bozak, and John Mitchell. Holding out hope for Bozak, but this is not an impressive group of centres. No Luc Robitaille on the left either.
- Because the Leafs have little scoring depth, Kessel has been the focus of every opponent's defense, every game that he has played as a Leaf.
- He's not done developing yet, in body or skills.
Despite this, Kessel has put up 37 goals in 83 games as a Leaf. It doesn't get much fairer than game-for-game, so here are the leaders for goals over their last 83 games played. Hopefully this puts Phil Kessel's performance in perspective.
|
|
Player |
Team |
Pos |
Goals |
|
1 |
WSH |
L |
56 |
|
|
2 |
TBL |
C |
51 |
|
|
3 |
PIT |
C |
51 |
|
|
4 |
NYR |
R |
46 |
|
|
5 |
VAN |
L |
45 |
|
|
6 |
WSH |
L |
44 |
|
|
7 |
SJS |
L |
41 |
|
|
8 |
ANA |
R |
40 |
|
|
9 |
SJS |
R |
38 |
|
|
10 |
CHI |
R |
38 |
|
|
11 |
Phil Kessel |
TOR |
R |
37 |
|
12 |
ANA |
R |
36 |
|
|
13 |
PHI |
C |
36 |
|
|
14 |
COL |
R |
36 |
|
|
15 |
ATL, NJD |
L |
35 |
|
|
16 |
NJD |
L |
35 |
|
|
17 |
CBJ |
R |
35 |
|
|
18 |
CAR |
C |
35 |
|
|
19 |
WSH |
C |
34 |
|
|
20 |
VAN |
L |
34 |
Ten. There are a whole ten guys in the NHL with more goals than Kessel over their last 83 games. Look at the names. Half of those players are going to the Hall of Fame someday. Consider their salaries-other than Stamkos, no-one cheaper than Kessel. Of the under-30s, anyone available for two 1sts and a 2nd?
Not that this is some sort of goal-scoring competition or anything, but I defy anyone to come up with a definition of "elite goal-scorer" that less than 11 players in the world can match.
One pressing concern is that he is wasted on his line-mates at the moment. While patience is important when evaluating the performances of Bozak, Kulemin and Versteeg thus far, Kessel needs a centre who can complement his skills. He has more to offer than breakaways and open looks. If we thought finding linemates for Sundin was a problem, this is a crisis: Kessel is not the type of player to take a play on his back, like Sundin so often did. He is an opportunist, and needs support to maximize his potential.
Despite everything going against him, Kessel has already proved he is elite; and it only gets better from here. I wish Tyler Seguin luck, because he has an uphill climb to match what we have in Kessel.
PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.
197 comments
|
13 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Great Post
Kid’s the only bona fide star. Check out how many teammates are on that list!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
3 CAPITALS
How do they not win?
Do you realize that if you took away those three, and left them with:
Fleichshman-Laichs-Fehr
as their top line I think it still has as many points as ours last year?? (I haven’t acutally checked this)
THROW BAGS OF MONEY AT SEMIN
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
if the leafs sign semin, I am going to call who ever centers him “fluffer”
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
if you are burke, what does the contract look like that you offer him on July 1st?
5yrs, 6.5mil?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Nov 8, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I think he asks for a monster contract. 40, maybe 50 goal scorer available at 27? 7 years, 56 million.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
sooo….. we arent getting him then. If we beleive Burke when he says he wont give out deals longer than 5 years
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Nov 8, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Did Burke say he flat-out wont, or did he say that he doesn’t like to give out those cobntracts (implying that he may in the right situation).
not 100% sure… my memory tells me that he said he flat out wont….
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Nov 8, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Semin’s injury history is probably going to keep the contract length to a Burke-approved level (hopefully).
My protest worked! Mike Weber has been freed!
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
We pay Dion Phaneuf 6.5 to “change the culture”.
Get Semin here scoring goals I don’t really care about the price.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Start making signs & t-shirts:
Scoring = Semin!
Give Us What We Want!
We can protest in front of the ACC…
by Death_By_Leafs on Nov 8, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
hmmm kills penalites too, eh?
Funny side note: How quickly Mike Green jumped into that play. On the PK. That guy will never pass up a chance for offense.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 8, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Did you see Eric Fehr’s goal yesterday? SPLURT. We need to get him out of DC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rAGh4TakhA
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
ew.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Nov 8, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Hopefully he has another ridiculously snakebitten playoffs so that belief can continue.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Seriously, a big playoffs could be worth eight figures to him. Crazy.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Nov 8, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
a big goal could be his money shot
boom
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
If he stays hard on the puck and uses some fancy stick work to take it right up the middle, he could shoot through the five-hole. Semin is literally all over the ice.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 8, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
He’ll likely benefit from being the only bona fide sniper on the market.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Nov 8, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
The streakiness is a bit of a problem, but I think that could improve if he had a little more talent around him.
BS
At first my reaction to this statement was “The F**K?!?!”
But I take it you mean that he doesn’t play much with Ovi, Backstrom & Knuble. However, the counterpoint is that on the Leafs he would be relied on as a primary threat and would see the oppositions best D matchup.
errrm I was referring to Kessel. I think with a little more help around him, he wouldn’t be relied on as heavily and either a) play loose. Less pressure, might mean more consistency b) we’d have more talent and hopefully more wins, and no one would care if Kessel’s slumping.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 8, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t think his streakiness is that much bigger than any other players. It’s just more obvious to us.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Nov 8, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Haven’t commented in a while on this site, but this is a great post . The chart really helps put Kessels production in to prospective.
All the 1-up mushrooms in my kingdom for an edit button.
From red line to red light in less than 12 parsecs.
Save the mushrooms and use the preview button.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Nov 8, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I want to take this post out for a nice dinner, then go for a walk, then take it back to my place.
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 8, 2010 11:38 AM EST reply actions
I like this post, and agree with everything in it, except that I don’t think the Kessel trade has been getting much heat lately (not nearly as much as last year), the team would be doing even worse without Kessel. I would say the Versteeg trade is the one that looks the worst right now.
Versteeg came as advertised by Chicago fans: a ton of skill, prone to giveaways, sometimes lacks finish.
We should nick name him “The Swede” (All Swedish, no Finnish).
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 8, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
You’re suggesting applying the nickname Swede to anyone not named Mats Sundin?
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Nov 8, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Shouldn’t Sundin’s nickname just be The Man? Since he is anyway…
"Kneel before Todd!!"
They told me practice makes perfect, then they told me nobody's perfect, so I stopped practicing.
That’s debatable, but Swede is officially taken in perpetuity.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Nov 8, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
I think Sundin has always been ‘The Big Swede’. ‘The Swede’ is fine in my books.
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 8, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
The Bromma Bull.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Nov 8, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
versteeg has been my biggest disapointment…. the way he has been quitting on plays and showing his frustration on the ice is infuriating. not skating hard enough, trying to do be too cute… i know some of these things were known from his time in chicago, but still, i expected more so far.
one thing i think i noticed on saturday night, maybe someone can confirm or deny this, was during a linechange the camera focused in on versteeg and he was chirping the buffalo bench by asking someone “How much money do you make?! huh!? Eh, How much money do you make!?”
not sure if guys chirp each other about their salaries alot…. but to me it was just icing on the cake for a very frustrating start of the season for Kris.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Nov 8, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I saw him chirpiing, but couldn’t make out what he was saying. Imagine chirping about salaries….damn
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 8, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I know exactly what shot you’re talking about. I was pretty certain he said “you want a piece of me?”, but I could be wrong. Equally lame though.
by Alex Grantham on Nov 8, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Kessel is absolutely an elite talent – I wonder how many guys would be in front of him without their elite puck movers. I know there’s a lot of talk about sucking Semin out of the free agency market (yes, I’m 12), but I’m much more interested in acquiring a true #1 center – I really think someone out there exists that can move a puck well enough to solve Kessel’s inconsistency issues.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Semin AND Richards through free agency!
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Just Richards. If I have to pick I’ll take the Conn Smythe winning center who will make Kessel better all day every day.
"Kneel before Todd!!"
They told me practice makes perfect, then they told me nobody's perfect, so I stopped practicing.
I would love, love, love to have Richards on this team over Semin.
by Alex Grantham on Nov 8, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Brad Richards will be 31 next season. Assuming a five year deal I don’t want a 36 year old as our top center.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
How about a 34 year old? a four year deal would be great by me, I really wish they could still do club option years, but I don’t think they can anymore.
"Kneel before Todd!!"
They told me practice makes perfect, then they told me nobody's perfect, so I stopped practicing.
I expect it to be a 4-year deal.
If I were Richards’ agent, I would only want to sign until 34, because then I can sign a retirement contract prior to the 35 “no outsies” limit.
Sign 30-34, then sign 34-38 (or 39) and then retire. Works perfectly. Unless he can convince Dallas or someone else to give him a 7 or 8 year deal to take him to 37 or 38, but that would make him immobile and potentially stuck on some bad teams in the future.
by Death_By_Leafs on Nov 8, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
When Richards is 36 Kardi will be like 24.
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 8, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
he is also scoring at just under a PPG and will probably be the only offensive center to make UFA, he is going to demand BIG coin
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think having Richards gives us a chance at a cup run in those 5 years?
(I’m honestly not sure)
Oh, four! I mean five! I mean fire! Now available in lite version!
alone? no, added to Kessel, maybe, Richads AND Semin AND Kessel?? damn near definitely
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Those three would be money together. STOP GETTING MY HOPES UP!
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
Follow my foray in fancy facial follicles
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 8, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed – I’ve just blocked out the possibility of getting both of them in free agency. I don’t think Semin’s enough.
Oh, four! I mean five! I mean fire! Now available in lite version!
Burke has been all about youth, and has yet to acquire anyone above 27, excluding Giguere, Sjostrom, Beauchemin and Brown. I’d be pretty shocked if he picked up Richards.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
and an RFA – what has Brown done for you lately?
Taken 2 boarding penalties
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 8, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
had one bad game and 12 good to very good ones
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I agree whole heartedly.
I make joke, it not funny
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 8, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
i hope burke keeps him around for a good while
by gnarlybattleship on Nov 8, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
me too…great checking/grinder forward.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 8, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
We’re not getting Richards. Dallas is going to re-up with him before the season is over.
Certified Grabbo Lover
if they can find a taker for Ribero
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
/chuckles derisively
Jared you so crazy
"Kneel before Todd!!"
They told me practice makes perfect, then they told me nobody's perfect, so I stopped practicing.
thats what the bunny spiders crawling out of my psychiatrists eyes told me
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Whenthey tell you to start burning things…Start with the Habs.
And then the Sens.
And the Wings.
And…
"Kneel before Todd!!"
They told me practice makes perfect, then they told me nobody's perfect, so I stopped practicing.
And....
all evidence of Boston’s claim to our 2011 pick.
by Death_By_Leafs on Nov 8, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I’m fairly certain we’re either going to move a TON of assets for a #1C, or we’re going to have to move sizable assets for a #1C prospect, then wait a couple years as he develops. I hate how patient I’m going to have to be for this young team to hit prime.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Personally I was planning on hanging my hat on Joe Thornton but stupid San Jose had to go and resign him. The way I see it, Burke’s already made his bed. He MUST land Brad Richards or someone else as good or better this summer, and another 1 or 2 elite guys the summer after that.
unless Richards has a shitty season from hear on out he will probably cost at least 6.5 a year and want a retirement contract
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think you need 5 elite players on a team to be a contender. Looking at the 06 Hurricanes they had Staal who was certainly elite, Stillman, Brind’Amour, Cole in the regular season all put up big numbers, but I think that with say two guys in the 80-90 point range and 3 more in the 55-70 range with a solid D and good goaltending can take you as far as you’ll go. 2 scoring lines, s solid plumber lines, a solid d and a talented goalie (Hell, just the goalie if you’re some teams which will remain Montreal.) and you can have a bonfide contender. so, stick to the plan, Kadri develops well, bring in a top center, and hope our wingers pick up a little and develop further by that time, and we’re looking at the very least at a solid playoff team. Sounds like the company line now I read it back, but dammit all stay the course people!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
They told me practice makes perfect, then they told me nobody's perfect, so I stopped practicing.
2006 was a clustercuss.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
Follow my foray in fancy facial follicles
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 8, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Uhm
I don’t think you need 5 elite players … I think that with say two guys in the 80-90 point range and 3 more in the 55-70 range
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Thank you.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Nov 8, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps he has a different definition of elite?
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
Follow my foray in fancy facial follicles
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 8, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
To me at least an elite player is one of the 80-90 point guys, or someone who consistently hits 70 year by year, but a guy who goes from 55 to 70 then back to 55, or 18 goals to 30 and back ain’t elite. I’m looking at you Erik Cole!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
They told me practice makes perfect, then they told me nobody's perfect, so I stopped practicing.
Ok well we currently have “zero” 90pt players and “zero” prospects that are likely to be PPG+ in the NHL.
We have “one” player who could be a 70+ pt guy (Kessel) and “one” prospect who could be a 70pt guy if we’re lucky in Kadri.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
How many played for the Blackhawks? As far as I know it was 1 they had solid forward depth and excellent defense, as well as a horse shoe bummed goalie. If we did acquire Richards that would give us (as I consider it) two elite forwards, capable of 80 points each, if Our D remains strong (or somehow gets stronger) then they’ll support the forward corps. Hopefully Versteeg and Kulemin can get to the 50 point area and we’ll be able to bring in another 50 guy and have some scoring depth. D and goal are big concerns in the playoffs and with luck we’ll have that. I’m just trying to paint an optimistic view here. I can’t help myself. Or we get the Koreans to Clone a team made up entirely of Wendals, Dougies, and Borje Salming and then we own the NHL for Years! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
They told me practice makes perfect, then they told me nobody's perfect, so I stopped practicing.
That’s a lot different than your initial claim that we needed two 90 pt players and 3 70pt players.
A goal’s a goal. While Richards would make Kessel better directly Semin gives us two scoring lines.
Kulemin (20-30-50) – Bozak (15-30-45) – Kessel (40-25-65)
Semin (40-25-65) – Kadri (15-40-55) – Versteeg (15-30-45)
That’s 145 goals from our top two lines. Dropping Versteeg to the third and replacing him with a UFA like a Frolov or Ponikarovsky (flawed, reasonable cost, 20 goals) would work.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I’m not disputing that, but If you had to pick just one which would it be? Personally I go for the guy who’s proven he can win in the playoffs. So far I haven’t seen a lot of Semin in the Playoffs. 08-09 Semin playoffs were good statistically, but he disappeared last year. Richards hovers at a PPG in the playoffs and I think would be better with Kessel.
That said if we got either one of them I’d faint from sheer joy.
"Kneel before Todd!!"
They told me practice makes perfect, then they told me nobody's perfect, so I stopped practicing.
semin did not disappear last year, he got an insane amount of chances and was a threat every time he was on the ice, the Habs and Halak just shut him down VERY well
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
could be, not is, or is a lock to be, different thing
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Very few players get up to a point a game these days, and those who do rarely do it alone. I don’t think Kessel is going to get to a point-a-game, at least not consistently. But keep in mind, scoring 40 goals is more valuable than dishing 60 assists.
From red line to red light in less than 12 parsecs.
If we have five of the top 17 point scorers I bet we’d win more games.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
And, if I remember right, most of them are paired off – wingers with centers (Ovechkin and Backstrom, Sedins).
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Top 21 point producers last season: http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2010_leaders.html
1. Henrik Sedin-VAN 112
2. Sidney Crosby-PIT 109
Alex Ovechkin-WSH 109
4. Nicklas Backstrom-WSH 101
5. Steven Stamkos-TBL 95
6. Martin St. Louis-TBL 94
7. Brad Richards-DAL 91
8. Joe Thornton-SJS 89
9. Patrick Kane-CHI 88
10. Marian Gaborik-NYR 86
11. Daniel Sedin-VAN 85
Ilya Kovalchuk-TOT 85
13. Alexander Semin-WSH 84
14. Patrick Marleau-SJS 83
15. Dany Heatley-SJS 82
Zach Parise-NJD 82
17. Anze Kopitar-LAK 81
18. Paul Stastny-COL 79
19. Evgeni Malkin-PIT 77
20. Mike Green-WSH 76
Corey Perry-ANA 76
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
WSH 4
SJS 3
TBL 2
NJD 2
VAN 2
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
also,
Stastny’s the guy we want. Young, playmaker, room to improve, contract not terrible
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
will cost a premium to pry out of colorado
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure Schenn would open them up to a trade.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Nov 8, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Not saying I wanna do it but that’s what I think would be required to get it done.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Nov 8, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Need one more year
They need to know that Duchenne can be point per game, before they would consider letting Stastny go…
Also I love him, but he is injury prone
they’d probably try and keep both
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
schenn is my definition of a premium
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
It’s tough. What’s rarer – a hard hitting shut down defenseman or a PPG #1C?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Nov 8, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, but I can see the case for otherwise as well.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Nov 8, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Just pointing out that you’d be getting a very good young player in return. A legit #1 center
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
And why is Colorado in a hurry to do this?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
if they want a defensive D they can have finger back for a “to be named later”
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
So obviously Statsny is unobtainable, but what about that Crosby guy in Pittsburgh?
Certified Grabbo Lover
So this is stupid HFBoards nonsense trade proposals then, got it.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
so how about that brad richards, i hear he is nearing UFA
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
I am one of the few who thinks schenn WILL be at least near a franchise level D man in a couple seasons, so its hard for me to say
there are very few players i would trade schenn for, let alone schenn plus
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Schenn’s offensive game is starting to peek out from around the edges. It’s coming.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
It’s very exciting to watch.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Nov 8, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
yup, i dont ever see him potting Chara or Green numbers, but still, the surface of schenns offensive potential has only been scratched
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
?
are you saying this in a “room for improvement” kind of way, or a “has yet to meet lofty expectations” kind of way?
by Death_By_Leafs on Nov 8, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still maintaining
Scott Stevens-lite. Realistically, minus Stevens’ offence and headhunting.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
Of those players, most were linemates: Washington (Ovie, Backstrom, Semin), San Jose (Thornton, Marleau, Heatley), New Jersey (Parise, Kovalchuk), Tampa Bay (St. Louis, Stamkos), and Vancouver (The Sedins).
Certified Grabbo Lover
So that means we should get in on the action!
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
Follow my foray in fancy facial follicles
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 8, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
And how!
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
Follow my foray in fancy facial follicles
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Nov 8, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty much. “Steven Stamkos of the Toronto Maple Leafs has decided to retire from pro hockey at the age of 19 and go into the family car insurance business.”
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I’m grossly unqualified to talk about future drafts, but drafting in the 2000s has been so ridiculous, I can’t believe it’s sustainable. At the very least, I have to think that the “clear and away #1 overall in the draft” bit is going away, and we’ll see more “Will Tavares outproduce Duchene?” I’m interested in seeing how the Panthers’ “Tank hard” goes – I can’t imagine there’s another Crosby or Ovie coming down the short-term pipeline.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
next year looks to have a pretty well defined top 3 of “future NHL star” quality picks, but is “weak” beyond that
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I know about Larson and Couturier, but who’s the third?
"Kneel before Todd!!"
They told me practice makes perfect, then they told me nobody's perfect, so I stopped practicing.
… for Boston.
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Nov 8, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
in Columbus
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 8, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
this is an excellent picture that will be added to my repository
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Nov 8, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
with say two guys in the 80-90 point range and 3 more in the 55-70 range with a solid D and good goaltending can take you as far as you’ll go. 2 scoring lines, s solid plumber lines, a solid d and a talented goalie (Hell, just the goalie if you’re some teams which will remain Montreal.) and you can have a bonfide contender.
In summary, if you have an amazing team with no flaws or holes, then you will be good at hockey.
Certified Grabbo Lover
No! If you have a stacked team with scoring, defense and goaltending,
you can have a bonfide contender
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Nov 8, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
2006 kinda doesn’t count, at least in the discussion of how to build a cup winner. It was a weird year.
Now, the Penguins won it all with only 2 really elite players (Stall was solid but i don’t think he’d have been one of Detroits top 5), but Malkin and Crosby were so far ahead of most “elite” players they were in a whole other category.
Carolina coasted through the playoffs against severely injured teams and barely squeaked by the Oilers despite Roloson being injured.
I believe Buffalo had six regular d-men hurt by the end of the ECF.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
And even with all that luck it took a bunch of career years from their forwards.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Nov 8, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what winning the Cup really takes; you need to have a good group of forwards who all get hot at the same time.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Anyone around here know Santeria?
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 8, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Nope, I don’t have a crystal ball either.
Oh, four! I mean five! I mean fire! Now available in lite version!
I’ve never had a million dollars
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 8, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
And if you did, you’d spend it all.
GameNorth.ca - Gaming north of the border.
by NinjasFromSpace on Nov 8, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
So my solution
Trade for Eric Fehr. That man is underutilized, a good shooter, a big guy and puts up great pts and G /TOI
I think he could do big things with more minutes and is what we need, and could be had for reasonably cheap.
could be had for reasonably cheap.
Caps fans we talk to seem to think otherwise.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Nov 8, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Fans don't run the team
He plays little minutes, and doesn’t have any tangible stats that seem to make him a big commodity on that team.
Sure.
They’re probably more clued in to what McFee would do than us, though.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Nov 8, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t be the first time a guy got paid for intangibles.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Nov 8, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Just to follow up with some numbers
For players who played at least 20 games (5×5 data from behind the net):
7th in G/60 minutes (Washington has FOUR in the top 7…wtf!)
15th in pts/60
Do you want to know who the 14 ahead of him are?
DANIEL SEDIN
HENRIK SEDIN
ALEX OVECHKIN
SIDNEY CROSBY
ALEXANDER SEMIN
NICKLAS BACKSTROM
ILYA KOVALCHUK
MARIAN GABORIK
ALES HEMSKY
CHRIS STEWART
WOJTEK WOLSKI
JOE THORNTON
LOUI ERIKSSON
PATRIK ELIAS
…thats some elite talent.
Washington has FOUR in the top 7…wtf!
That’s why. For anyone on the Capitals that is not Ovie, Backstrom, or Semin I’m throwing out last season’s stats because that team was a complete fluke. Fehr has 3G and 3A in 13 games so far this season and is playing on their 3rd, sometimes 4th, line.
Certified Grabbo Lover
First time trying to use these stats, so here goes nothing.
He had a QTeam of 0.16 (10th/13 forwards who played 40+ games) and a QComp.
*To be fair he also had the second worst QComp.
The point is though that he got those points/Goals playing without those other guys. If I remembered where the line mates data was I would go look at that
so he benefited greatly from having the other teams focus all their defensive abilities on the insane top load of skill the team have
wait are we talking about Fehr or versteeg
sonofabitch
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 8, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
There should be a limit on how many years a player has been in a league where fan thinks his draft position matters. There are lot of players who were first round draft picks who have stuck around and get spoken of as better than they are because of their draft position.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Nov 8, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
For sure
But he is still relatively young. People can take time to develop and because Toronto refuses to develop its players properly we need to trade from other teams where they will?
After this it gets a little off topic
Look at a guy like Loui Ericksson. He came over in ’05 (at 20 years old) and played the whole year in the AHL:
GP G A pts
78 31 29 60
Then they called him up and had 2 middling or worse years
06/07 (21)
59 6 13 19
07/08 (22)
69 14 17 31
It wasn’t until the year after that that his offesnive game became apparent in the NHL:
08/09 (23)
82 36 27 63
And we know about last year and this year
09/10 (24)
82 29 42 71
10/11
13 9 7 16
We need to learn to actually develop players. That doesn’t mean 20 games in the AHL. If we have patience with our players they can actually turn into something. I am talking about someone like Caputi. People are so quick here in leafs-land to call the guy a failure this summer. It takes TIME for players to develop and they need to get that on the big club. Not everyone can come straight up and succeed and I think its the lack of patience with players that screws us over the most.
oh sure
I’m just saying that when we’re looking at trading for someone, if they’ve been in the NHL for 5+ years and have never been an offensive force, trying to use “first rounder” as a point in their favour is disingenuous.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Nov 8, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
YOUR FACE IS DISINGENUOUS!
Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron. Certified Grabbo Lover!
Адразу Ліфс Перайсці !
by Sergei Puckizin on Nov 8, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
There’s a difference between calling Caputi a failure and saying he has a lot of work to do.
And it seems like Toronto’s doing a lot to bring kids along slowly now.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yes and no
Slowly would be giving multiple years to some of these guys. It just frustrates me with people saying Kadri is a bust and then the defense being, give him a half a season in the AHL, and then if he comes up and doesn’t light it up he’ll be a bust. It can take multiple seasons for players to develop IN the NHL, and leafs fans never allow that.
I agree with pretthy much everything you but,
Phil Kessel is a very good offensive talent. Maybe a little too streaky, but still very good. I still maintain the trade was a mistake and have felt this way from the onset. He doesn’t have a good supporting cast and with very little in the cupboard may not have any true help before his tenure with the Leafs is up. He lacks much of the qualities needed to lead a team through adversity as evident by his scoring droughts through extended losing streaks. The fact that we haven’t drafted a player of his caliber in twenty years speaks volumes. If we would hold onto our picks and use them wisely, we wouldn’t have to make deals like this. I’m a big Kessel fan now that he’s a Leaf but the timing of the deal was all wrong. This was a deal to be made near the end of a rebuild, not the beginning.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Pension Plan Puppets
Related FanShots on Pension Plan Puppets
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Trending Topics: In praise of Jeff Carter, Mike Richards; ‘While The Men Watch’ criticism
- The John Tortorella origin story, including ground balls to the face
- NHL investigates Coyotes; Shane Doan explains tense Game 5 handshake with Kings’ Brown
- NHL Playoff Beard Watch: Blood, Sweat and Beards of unsung unshaven heroes
- Devils guarantee they’ll downplay 1994 conference finals for Game 6 vs. Rangers
SBNation.com Recent Stories
StatCounter
