Killing the Leafs in 3 Minutes or Less
by mf37 on Dec 17, 2010 3:09 PM EST
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PrintJonas Siegel has a great blog post up today listing 10 games this season where the Leafs gave up a cluster of goals in a very short time. For those of you scoring at home, that means the Leafs have been torched for multiple goals in three minutes or less in 30% of their games this season.
I wanted to take Jonas' nice research one step further and add a goaltending column to see if there was any sort of pattern...
|
Date |
Opponent |
Goalie |
Result |
Final Outcome |
|
October 23rd |
Philadelphia |
Giguere |
Two goals in 1:51 |
Loss (5-2) |
|
November 2nd |
Ottawa |
Giguere |
Two goals in 2:26 |
Loss (3-2) |
|
November 3rd |
Washington |
Gustavsson |
Two goals in 0:53 |
Shootout Loss (5-4) |
|
November 9th |
Tampa |
Giguere |
Two goals in 0:19 |
Loss (4-0) |
|
November 16th |
Nashville |
Giguere |
Three goals in 3:30 |
Win (5-4) |
|
November 26th |
Buffalo |
Gustavsson |
Two goals in 1:45 |
Loss (3-1) |
|
December 2nd |
Edmonton |
Giguere |
Two goals in 0:36 |
Loss (5-0) |
|
December 8th |
Pittsburgh |
Gustavsson |
Three goals in 3:08 |
Loss (5-2) |
|
December 9th |
Philadelphia |
Giguere |
Two goals in 1:19 |
Loss (4-1) |
|
December 16th |
Calgary |
Giguere |
Three goals in 0:57 |
Loss (5-2) |
And indeed there is: J.S. Giguere has been in goal for 7 of the 10 games where the Leafs were torched.
To my mind, this pattern of clustered goals against, coupled with a longitudinal look at Giguere's save percentage (nicely assembled by our own SkinnyFish) is yet further evidence of Giguere's ongoing decline.
Looking at his play of late, I hope Gustavsson gets the bulk of starts going forward and that Burke and the MLSE brain trust are working out what their goaltending options are for next year.
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Wow, great work MF. As sad as this post makes me, it also gives me some hope as it’s something that this team should be able to prevent going forward. I really hope Burke et all read this or have access to the same information, Giggy should see as few starts as possible.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Dec 17, 2010 3:21 PM EST reply actions
Great work, this is very telling, and a euphemism for the leafs season so far.
I would also be interested to know who the defencemen were for the majority of the goals and if there is any correlation.
"I'm not drinking and driving, I'm driving while I'm drinking....Right boys!?"
good idea.
Shoebacca - the PK Wookie
by danishmarshmallow on Dec 17, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
euphemism
I don’t think that word means what you think it does.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 17, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
a euphemism is another way of saying something, like saying ‘to pass on’ instead of ‘to die’. The leafs goalies giving up for 3 minutes of a game is absolutely a euphemism for the entire teams play during this season in my opinion, so yes I used the word in the correct context.
"I'm not drinking and driving, I'm driving while I'm drinking....Right boys!?"
arg nevermind, i did use the wrong word…haha…but the point still stands, the goalies play has certainly mimicked the whole squads inability to play a full game
"I'm not drinking and driving, I'm driving while I'm drinking....Right boys!?"
inconceivable!
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 18, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
But a euphemism is also a politer way of covering something up. Like “passing on” is a euphemism for “dying,” while “turning into worm food” is not… even though it is, technically, a way of saying the same thing. or, better example, “tinkle” is a childish euphemism for “urinating,” but “urinating” is not a euphemism for “tinkle”.
I think the word you’re looking for is metaphor.
Friggin' Giggy
He’ll show flashes of brilliance and keep us in the game, then he’ll disappear for 3 minutes and the game is out of hand.
20 miles to Legoland!
There’s no denying the numbers here, Giguere is obviously on the decline. However, the game against Calgary would have been 8-1 if not for him. There are only a couple of goalies in the whole league that can sustain an onslaught like that for 60 minutes and give up less than 4 goals and Giggy isn’t one of them. The onus is squarely on the rest of the players to respond at some point.
by lucc on Dec 18, 2010 12:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Good work. I thought Giguere had played fairly well over the past few games, excluding the Flyers game. I also find it funny that Giguere seems to come up with some minor injury after every bad game now. Reminds me of a goalie who played here last year.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Toskala would come up with injuries well after the fact. Giguere seems very up front with his health issues.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Giguere can’t do it anymore. He was making great save after save last night, keeping the Leafs in it, and then suddenly boom…. something went wrong.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 17, 2010 3:58 PM EST reply actions
There were a lot of red flags up at the time of his acquisition. Too bad that he can’t seem to get it back on track. I’m not sure playing him four straight helps either.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
I was definitely in the camp that hoped he would bounce back in getting out from under Hiller. It sucks that he hasn’t, but as long as we don’t do anything stupid like resign him, I don’t feel like we should regret taking that gamble.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
As long as the balance of starts go to Gustvasson there’s little to no downside. I have a bad feeling that if Giguere is healthy, he’ll be Wilson’s go-to guy.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
yeah at this point they need to go to a rotation that sees Gustavsson getting the majority of the starts. Not necessarily the same schedule as a true #1, but he needs to be 1A and Giguere 1B.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 17, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Ya I see your point. Blake and Toskala was a better option.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Yes then we would have to play goalies not ready for NHL time, you know, rush them. Or would you be suggesting that we sign another goalie to shelter them, if we have the space, both cap and spc?
Anyway you cut it, having Giguere and his leadership/experience might not mean much to people outside the room like us but maybe it does have an effect on people in the room.
I think its silly and a bit too critical when fans try to pinpoint one player or one play or anyone point that they see as a flaw when the reality is as a whole the team is sucking balls here and there. And that – in a way that can never be proven, the team would be better with or without a said player. I feel that having someone like Giguere on a young developing team is great, even if he isn’t a conn symthe caliber goalie any more.
I can see the point of pointing a finger when the team is leading a charge to be cup contenders and the goalie is letting us down but in this stage of the game, does it really matter? All we need is someone in net to keep it close as the boys up front learn to win the game on their own. I think when us fans look at this team, we need to keep in mind at exactly what we are looking at, a team that is still early in its rebuild not a contender – a team with great highs and terrible lows as we all seen in the past with other young rebuilding team. I suggest we strap in and enjoy what you can from the ride.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Yes then we would have to play goalies not ready for NHL time, you know, rush them
Or you know, play Gustavsson alongside Joey MacDonald.
Anyway you cut it, having Giguere and his leadership/experience might not mean much to people outside the room like us but maybe it does have an effect on people in the room.
Or maybe it doesn’t. Consistently saving the puck likely does effect the people in the room.
I think its silly and a bit too critical when fans try to pinpoint one player or one play or anyone point that they see as a flaw when the reality is as a whole the team is sucking balls here and there.
You know what I think is silly? When someone identifies a pattern or a trend and other people start using words like “blame” or “finger-pointing” or “McGuffin”
I think when us fans look at this team, we need to keep in mind at exactly what we are looking at, a team that is still early in its rebuild not a contender.
Wait, the Leafs aren’t contenders. Crap. How do I delete this fanshot?
I suggest we strap in and enjoy what you can from the ride
I enjoy stats, identifying trends and trying to augment what I see on the ice from what the numbers suggest. You know, learning about where the team is having some success and where they might be struggling or facing challenges. Do I need straps to enjoy that part of the ride?
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
The "boom"
was apparently his groin.
3rd time this season the injury has flared up, and it definitely sounds like it’s a longer term problem at this stage of proceedings:
Giguere is scheduled to visit with team doctors Sunday in Toronto. The Leafs, who for the second time recalled netminder James Reimer from the AHL Marlies, have only two games remaining before Christmas and Giguere is certain to be sidelined for both.
"It’s more than a matter of resting it," said Giguere, who missed six games in November and two earlier this month when the injury flared up.
"We have to find out what it is. We have brought it back to 100 per cent before, then I start playing and it gets tired and weak. When I started playing this time, there was a sharp pain."
If surgery becomes an option, then we’re definitely riding Gustavsson and Reimer for a while… not the worst thing in the world.
The groupings of goals isn’t a good thing but before we get hot and bothered for Gustavsson I will remind people of the following:
Gustavsson’s save percentage in his last 7 games = .872
And before people declare him a saviour because of his solid ES SV% they should notice that in the last 7 games he has allowed 6 PP goals against … after only allowing 7 in his first 9 games.
He’s gotten way WORSE as the season has progressed, not better.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
38 GA in 915 minutes is one goal let in every 24 minutes of playing time. 7 over those goals followed within 3 minutes of a prior goal. Is that more clustering than you’d expect to see by chance? I don’t know, but it seems like it might be. That would then be an odd anomaly to explain, and really does suggest some spurious variable like minor injuries that cause groups of goals.
Holy page break Batman
Good stuff, though. I’m OK with Giguere getting 40-50% of the starts for the rest of the year, but I’d really like an extended period of seeing what we have in Goose.
The thing to keep in mind is, did we want $4 million worth of 38-year-old Jason Blake on our roster next year? No? This was the price, and I was more than happy to take the gamble Giguere wouldn’t be this mediocre. We’ll see whether that cap space gets used in a productive way this summer.
The elderly: They may seem friendly, but can they really be trusted?
Sure but it just means that going forward Burke needs to address this.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Arguably, between Gustavsson, Reimer, Scrivens, and Rynnas there is at least some league-average potential. Honestly I have no idea how the goaltending will pan out next season, though.
The elderly: They may seem friendly, but can they really be trusted?
Agree
The potential is there but Rynnas has fallen off of late as well. Better to give the potential as much time as possible to develop.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Well he was on an impossibly hot streak. I’m not taking anything discouraging away from his first season here so long as it looks like he can hang with the kids and show flashes of promise.
Yeah, he’s come back to earth. But if Burke goes the kid route again then we’re looking at a repeat of two years ago where there was no vet presence. Then again, we have our 2012 first rounder so maybe that’s better.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Seems like Gus does do it a fair bit as much. What are the percentage of starts? If Giguere has started a lot more this doesn’t necessarily speak well of Gus.
Being a Leafs fan makes me bipolar.
Small sample size, but
Giggy: 1028:18 TOI, 17 GS
Goose: 843:53 TOI, 14 GS
About a 55-45 split by each measure.
In this particular example, the split doesn’t explain it. Of course, they’ve both been pretty bad this year, unfortunately.
The elderly: They may seem friendly, but can they really be trusted?
The Maple Leafs recalled goalie James Reimer from Toronto of the AHL for Saturday’s game in Vancouver.
Okay, this makes sense.
Toronto also recalled defenseman Keith Aulie.
Why’d we send him down, then?
Did they turn the plane around?
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 17, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
They sent him down for half a day? What?
by theninjagreg on Dec 17, 2010 9:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cap reasons probably.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Wait..am I seeing Leafs fans bagging on their goaltender again? C’mon!
BTW: Raycroft says hi
At least tell me how you think your team D is performing in front of your goaltenders.
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
The Leafs only allow about 28 shots per game against (top 4 in the NHL) so is it really a goaltending issue or quality of scoring chances against? Sorry for coming across as a troll. I don’t mean to. It’s just that I’ve seen CuJo, Belfour, Rayzor, etc get crucified in the past and I thought team D was just as guilty
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 17, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
One of those names is not like the others and you know it. I’d think a Canucks fan would be sympathetic to goaltending issues.
But yes, it’s an issue that needs addressing for sure.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Dec 17, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
the only thing Cujo was vilified for was jumping ship.
Belfour was great – when healthy.
Raycroft had a poor attitude and a worse glove hand. Good back up – bad starter. I hope he does well in the future, but he had a much better team in front of him and still managed to be pretty bad.
Also, how does examining trends and stats translate into ‘crucifying’ our goalies?
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 17, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the problem as I see it
Leaf fans hang their hat on solid net-minding, and there is a tendency to blame the D if we’ve decided en masse that we like a goalie.
Reality is though, the SV% numbers in Toronto’s nets have been shit for 4 out of 5 years since the lockout, with a brief respite last year when Giguere showed up (for 2 games in a row when he got shutouts). This year was sort of ok to start things off, but the numbers of slanted downwards, and it isn’t all the D’s fault.
The D made breakdowns last night against the Flames, and Giguere was fine, but then he lets in a few soft goals, and suddenly the Leafs are down by 3. Great goalie makes up for the occasional mistake on D, and with a young team that’s going to happen pretty regularly.
Giguere is having serious groin problems, Gustavsson has been wilting under the pressure.
We still have a serious issue in net.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
For me these collapses do have something to do with coaching. I can’t tell you the number of times other teams scored two in a row quickly and I yelled at the tv for us to take a timeout. Doesn’t happen most of the time – we need to learn to stay calm. I know we’ll make mistakes but 3 goals in a row like last night….
by Goosemonster on Dec 17, 2010 9:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Maybe Wilson should take a page from Babcock's book?
The Blackhawks/RedWings game tonight, Hawks scored 2 in three minutes, Babcock calls a timeout – doesn’t actually say anything, and Wings score one less than a minute later…
I remember that Pittsburgh game and those goals were totally not Gustavsson’s fault. The Penguins were skating circles around the Leafs at that point.
How is it
that a puck going by the goalie is totally “not his fault”… I get that he can be hung out to dry, but his job is to stop the puck.
If he isn’t stopping the puck, then wtf is he there for? It has to be at least PARTIALLY his fault.
You can’t be an NHL goaltender if you can’t stop the puck 9 times out of 10… I don’t care who is shooting. It’s not like it was a 5 on 0 and he was playing on a pile of molasses. We have a young team in front of our goalies, and a team like Pittsburgh or Philly will skate circles around us… that’s basically a given.
We shouldn’t be giving up 3 goals on 28 shots by Ottawa and Buffalo though. OR 2 goals on 6 shots by Edmonton.
Gustavsson’s save percentage is ridiculously bad (0.872) in his last 7 starts. I’m not going to sit here and say this is all on the D and the forwards… because it isn’t. The goalies have to be better.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
you’re right, there are never times where a skater receives an awesome pass and shoots into an empty net. never happens.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
Never said
that doesn’t happen.
But every single goal? That’s ridiculous.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
an .872 save percentage
over the span of 7 games… that’s all the D’s fault?
Why don’t we bring Toskala back in that case?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
things aren’t always spread out evenly. sometimes the ‘1 in 10’ goal that the goalie has no chance of stopping happens multiple times in the same game.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
7 games.
in a row.
That’s not an “uneven spread” it’s a bad stretch of shit play.
As I’ve said before, Gustavsson didn’t have a single stretch last season of over 4 consecutive games with a SV% under .900. He’s up to 7 straight at this point… and that may very well continue.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
btw
if you watched the Edmonton, Buffalo, and Ottawa games, you might have noticed that they were not all perfect passes where the shooter was firing on an open net.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
No
but your first statement definitely made the implication that those goals made up the majority – or at least the quantity would excuse enough of the goals that Gustavsson wasn’t contributing to the problem.
Which I think is sort of a ridiculous argument. The Leafs have not been giving up so many open tap ins that the goalie has no chance on them that it explains an .872 SV%.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
I'm just growing
tired of all the excusing of the goalies as if they aren’t playing poorly.
It’s like a few highlight reel saves make up for the regularly crappy goals they’re letting in.
Toskala did the same thing, I think people just like Gustavsson and Giguere’s attitudes better so they’re more forgiving.
I don’t really care about their attitude, I want them to stop the damn puck.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
There was no such implication. Why do you pick fights needlessly? Are you bored?
There will be an answer. Let it be.
Possibly
and tired… and frustrated with the goaltending.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
I just
find the defense of the goalies a bit over the top sometimes.
I feel like people have anointed Gustavsson the Leafs saviour, for no real discernible reason.
He hasn’t proven anything. His career record is now 20-23-11 with a .902 SV% and 1 shut out in 58 games. Those really aren’t very good numbers.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
and he's 26 years old
so it’s not like he’s going to suddenly turn into a world beating goalie at this stage.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
what are you even talking about? who said that? you’re seriously just making up stuff now to argue with yourself, it’s a bit silly.
btw, tim thomas.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
While we're at it
Dominik Hasek.
Or Niklas Backstrom.
or Kiprusoff
fine it might happen. I just want to see improvement, and I haven’t seen that in his game to be honest.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
and you're right
nobody said any of the things I’m responding to, it’s just a general trend I feel like I observe in here… maybe I’m inventing it… it’s just the impression I have of how people relate to Gustavsson.
Giguere = old and past his prime… Gustavsson = goalie of the future who will lead our improved play.
I just haven’t seen enough out of Gustavsson to think he’s suddenly going to win 30 games in a season.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
People are hoping that Gustavsson at 26 has the potential to be a good goalie for us in the future, despite 7 games where his numbers aren’t that great. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Stop being a downer.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
Take from it whatever you want.
I’m not a constant downer on here, so I do think I have the right to be one occasionally.
Next time the Leafs are mired in a horrible losing streak and everyone’s griping about it and I post about the fact that there are some positives, feel free to recall how negative I can be sometimes.
I’d gladly talk about other aspects of the team. I just don’t see goaltending as an area for great hope right now.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t say you’re a constant downer.
I appreciate the facts that you bring here. But sometimes being the ‘dissenting voice’ just for the sake of disagreeing isn’t helpful.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
this whole thing was very entertaining to me.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 18, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
In the Pittsburgh game in particular
Crosby’s goal came off a post and rebound from a Kunitz shot. 1-0
Pascal Dupuis scored a SHORT HANDED Goal on a 14 foot wrist shot… short handed? 2-0.
Letestu’s was a 15 foot wrist shot, and Crosby’s 2nd marker was a 23 foot snap shot… I just don’t think all of those were tap ins from 2 feet with nobody covering their man.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
I retract my statement that every goal in the last 7 games with Gus in net wasn’t his fault.
oh wait, I never said that.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
No
you made a sarcastic remark, which I responded to… multiple times.
I also don’t know why you’re retracting anything… or not… or whatever it is that amounts to.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
Not all shots are the same. Stopping 9/10 shots from the perimeter is not the same as stopping 9/10 shots in good scoring areas with the defence in poor position. The Penguins weren’t just getting shots on net that game, they were getting consistently solid scoring chances. That Dupuis short-handed goal was made on a really slick move on a 2 on 0, for example. Hard to blame the goalie when his defence bails and the skater makes a slick move and he has to cover both the pass and the shot simultaneously.
by Draglikepull on Dec 18, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
Even
if you want to argue that say 4 of the goals in his past 7 games were ones he had zero chance on, that’s still only going to improve his SV% to .892.
Hell increase it to 6 of the goals he’s given up and that pulls him up to a less than respectable .903.
I don’t think 6 of the goals he’s allowed were ridiculously bad defensive miscues… maybe they were, but off the top of my head I can’t recall THAT many ridiculous break downs that led to 2 on 0’s and the like.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
I also don’t recall that many times thinking “man, what a shit goal, Gus should have had that one”.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
Hmm
I can.
Maybe I’m more critical, but he should have had both the goals he let in in Edmonton.
And sometimes I just think he’s too deep in his net, or goes down to early. He’s got a bit of Felix Potvin in him from that perspective.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
and games
like the win over Washington in the SO frustrate me, because they lull people into thinking he played really well.
He let in a few goals early that frankly weren’t that amazing (the Ovechkin wrist shot was unstoppable) I don’t really think Mathieu Perreault is lighting up anyone else, and Gustavsson was down early on the first one in my mind.
But then the Leafs came back, and we get the win so all is forgiven.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
please. mathieu perrault had about 14 seconds to pick his spot on both of his goals.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
The first one
was a tip in of a Tom Poti shot, so I’m not sure how that’s possible. On the 2nd one, yes he had time, and he just out waited Gustavsson, while Gunnarsson walked out and tried to block the shot.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
ok, so just one of his goals. i’m not sure I’d chirp Gus about a tip-in though.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
Not all shots are the same. Stopping 9/10 shots from the perimeter is not the same as stopping 9/10 shots in good scoring areas with the defence in poor position.
Amen!
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 18, 2010 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
As a Canucks fan I’m surprised you’re a goalie apologist.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
or 7
whichever.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
He's had a SV%
above .900 in only 6 games all season.
That’s not good, but if Edmonton is the one game you will agree on I guess that’s fine.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
As a goalie I know this feeling. When you are holding your team in it for so long and then you eventually give up a goal after making a lot of good saves, it just drains you. Before you are energized and right in the play but as soon as that first one gets by, you feel the fatigue and you stop trying as hard. I dunno if it was just in my head or not but its some fucking hard to continue playing that way, just as well anyways, as before you give up the first one. Unfortunately, the leafs seem to give up quite a few scoring chances right after getting a goal scored upon them. I’m not sure if thats because of coaching or what but that’s gotta change.
What effect
does that have on the rest of the team?
I find it weird that we’re saying it’s ok for the goalie to make mistakes… why are we excusing the goalie letting the puck go in?
that’s like saying it’s ok if the forwards don’t get the puck deep when they should.
We obviously don’t think it’s ok for the forwards to not do their job, so why is it a different set of rules for the goalie?
If anything the goalie’s job is more important, not less… so why are we finding reasons to not be bothered by this turn of events.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
goalies
this chart shows that giggy has allowed more of the cluster of goals, but the fact is JIGGY HAS WON MORE GAMES THAN GUS…..I know there were games that the monster did not get help but still his rrcord is awful compared to jiggy
Check out the goals scored in the games Monster played. He had no support.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
He's allowed
3.1 goals against in the games he’s lost… for the Leafs to win regularly they’d need to average over 3.1 goals per game? That’d be the 6th highest goals per game number in the NHL. Ahead of Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Washington, and San Jose.
It isn’t just the lack of goal scoring.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
But
to be fair, in Giguere’s wins they are averaging 3.25 goals for per game.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
sorry
3.625 goals for.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
In Gustavsson's 4 wins
they’ve averaged 3.75 goals for.
When the Leafs win, they score a lot, the goaltending doesn’t seem to make a huge difference.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
In his last 9 games, the Leafs have only scored more than 2 goals three times. They were also shutout 3 times.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
This is true
and a large part of the problem. Doesn’t affect his SV% particularly… but it does affect his record.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
In Giguere's last 9 games
the Leafs have only scored more than 2 goals four times. They were also shut out 2 times.
Gustavsson’s SV% in the last 9: 0.893
Giguere’s SV% in the last 9: 0.879
If you decreased Gustavsson’s SV% to 0.879, he would have allowed 4 more goals. If you increased Giguere’s SV% to 0.893, he would have allowed 3 fewer goals.
They both have crap numbers recently though… despite the lack of offense.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Please tell me you’re joking.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Judging a goalie based on wins is like judging a water filtration plant based on the quality of effluence running through the “in” pipe.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
this is perhaps the most obtuse analogy i’ve ever seen on here. and that’s saying something!
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 18, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
not that i didn’t like it, of course.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 19, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Ok so
to summarize.
Leafs win when they score and the goalies stop the puck.
Unfortunately they don’t see either of those happen with enough regularity for winning to occur with regularity.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Furthermore,
The more the Leafs maintain possession and score, the less work our goalies have to do.
Axioms are fun.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
Oddly
the Leafs actually have the puck a fair amount of the time, they aren’t as bad on faceoffs as is often presented (though they were atrocious against the Flames), and they play in the offensive zone quite a bit.
One thing they DO do a lot of is give the puck away… particularly Luke Schenn and Francois Beauchemin… don’t get why, but they do.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
2nd and 3rd
in the NHL in giveaways respectively…. that is freaking scary.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
Kaberle is 7th.
The Leafs 3 best D men are all in the top 10 in the NHL in giveaways… who is to blame for that? The forwards for having too large a gap?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
Nikota did some looking at the numbers and found out that the Giveaway counter at the ACC is way out of whack with the rest of the league. Our giveaway stats away are much closer to league average so that might have something to do with it as they see the most minutes at the ACC.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Dec 18, 2010 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
Or the Leafs
being one of the youngest teams in the NHL might give the puck away a lot more than most teams.
Reality is probably somewhere in the middle.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 18, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
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