Maple Leafs v. Thrashers
by PPP on Dec 20, 2010 2:18 PM EST
in Maple Leafs Game Previews
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The Toronto Maple Leafs host the Atlanta Thrashers in a rare Monday night game. The Thrashers have been one of the great stories of the year. They have been the prototypical "Ewing Theory" team. What's that? Well, basically, it's the idea that the loss of a superstar can sometimes be the best thing to happen to a franchise. Bill Simmons gives you lots of examples but a great local one was in 2002-2003 when the Raptors became almost unbeatable down the stretch to make the playoffs after Wince Carter was ruled out of the lineup with hurt feelings.
The Thrashers were left for dead after Ilya Kovalchuk was dealt to New Jersey and when they moved for Dustin Byfuglien this summer there was the expectation that Regular Season Buff would be a disappointment. Especially after they moved him to defence. As it turns out, Byfuglien is having kind of a good season.
But the real key of the team's success has been Ondrej Pavelec. He has been, to steal a turn of phrase, Pavelectric. More on him after the jump.
Starting Goalies courtesy of The Left Wing Lock:
Some interesting stats for Gustavsson:
- Has a .926 save percentage in six games at the ACC this year
- Has a .880 save percentage in four games against the Southeast division this year
- Has a .914 save percentaage in two games on Mondays
- Has a .923 save percentage at even strength which is good for 22nd among goalies with at least 10 appearances this year
- Has a .824 save percentage on the penalty kill which is good for 41st among goalies with at least 10 appearances this year
His opponent is Ondrej Pavelec who is the same guy that went through one of the scarier episodes of this NHL season. Right now, the only thing scary about him are his numbers:
- Has a .915 save percentage in two games on Mondays
- Has a .950 save percentage at even strength which is good for 2nd among goalies with at least 10 appearances this year
- Has a .947 save percentage on the penalty kill which is good for 17th among goalies with at least 10 appearances this year
Tonight's lineups courtesy of James Mirtle:
Leafs lineup
MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin
Versteeg - Bozak - Kessel
Sjostrom - Brent - Armstrong
Lebda - Mitchell - Orr
Beauchemin - Phaneuf
Kaberle - Schenn
Gunnarsson - Komisarek
Gustavsson
Thrashers lineup (based on last game)
Stewart - Kane - Little
Peverley - Antropov - Ladd
Boulton - Slater - Thorburn
Burmistrov - Stapleton - Modin
Byfuglien - Enstrom
Bogosian - Oduya
Hainsey - Sopel
Pavelec
The big news is obviously this ridiculous move to get Brett Lebda on the wing. Of all of the options available to them this is the strangest. The knock on effect is that Nazem Kadri will be sitting for the second straight game. I know what initial reaction is/has been because I had the same one ("You don't know what you're doing!") but Wilson's explanation seems to make sense:
"He's not going down," Wilson said. "I'm using the next four days for him to get stronger and faster. In better shape and a lot stronger than he's shown in games. That's what part of this is for.
"Tampa did this a couple years ago with their young players. They play 10 games then sit out two or three and use the schedule to their advantage to get a little bit stronger and faster. And that was particularly the case with [Steve] Stamkos and you saw him from go from the beginning where he couldn't get anything done to being a better player at the end of the season and using that to springboard into last year and where he is now.
"We're going to try and do a similar project with Nazzy. He's got to get stronger. It's simple."
It would be ahrd to argue that Kadri doesn't need more strength work. To my eye, this move is geared towards working on Kadri's development rather than the optics which would have had the team keep him in the lineup regardless. I assume there's more debate so have at it.
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Kadri
To me, it’s this simple: If he’s up here, let him play. If they’re concerned about his long-term development and making him tougher, send him back to the minors. He gains nothing by watching upstairs, while Brett fucking Lebda and Colton fucking Orr play.
But they can’t have him working on things like strength and conditioning and then throw him out in Marlies games either. Worked out fine for Stamkos, which is why they mentioned it (MF37 LOVES the messaging I bet), but it at least shows a plan. They never explained the same move with Caputi.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
How strong do they expect to get him in 4 days?
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. And as Burtch has pointed out Stamkos was NOT on a “10 on, 3 off” program. He has missed 3 individual games in 3 years.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Dec 20, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I would hope it’s more than a 1 week plan.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Why can’t he work out like a regular hockey player would, play games like a regular hockey player would, and then set him up with Gary Roberts in the off-season? Steve’s latest post shows how dreadful the bottom 6 guys are. I’d rather have Kadri and some semblance of skill skating out there. As nhlcheapshot asked, how much stronger can he really get in 4 days, or a week, or 2 weeks? Let him play against NHL competition, that will help him get stronger too.
I understand the rationale. Like you said, Stamkos certainly worked out fine. But, man, the message changes week to fucking week, and I’m fucking tired of it.
The Gary Roberts thing is out now that he’s employed by Tampa.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
I thought he was employed by Dallas…
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
I don’t like seeing you like this EB. Especially over the holidays.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
How do you see the message changing? They’ve been pretty consistent about what he needs to work on. They’ve changed the approach but it’s always been about his strength and defensive play.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
The notion that he’s going to get materially stronger in-season is laughable without taking at least a month off.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Dec 20, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know how they’ll be handling it going forward. That’ll be the real test of just how much BS this is.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
The part that's changed
and is complete B.S. frankly is the thing about it “worked with Stamkos”.
The whole premise being suggested with respect to Stamkos is a blatant untruth. Stamkos never sat out games to work on his strength and conditioning. He missed 3 games in January of his rookie year, spaced out by roughly 4 games of play… 3 times… so far in his entire career… never 2 games in a row.
The idea that they’re doing the same thing with Kadri is absurd, and the fact that anyone can check the rationale sort of makes it dumb to even mention.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
The comparisons to Stamkos may be b.s., but this is a good move by the Leafs. The idea that if he doesn’t play he can’t learn anything is wrong. He’s with the big team, he’s watching NHL games, he’s in the room. That’s one thing (whether this team is the best example of an NHL team is a different point though). The other thing is that he certainly can tweak a strength training program mid-season. It takes about 3 weeks of training to make performance gains. 10 days in a row without a game is a decent amount of time for him to be able to focus on particular weaknesses, and at least get a breakdown, and build back up. He won’t come back as Stamkos, obviously, but he certainly can come back better. A young player like him will have a very steep improvement curve, too. So something like this may not work with a veteran.
Another possibility is that he will benefit from a rest. Maybe he’s tired and they are just covering it up with talk about working out more, etc. Recovery is the most under-rated part of any training plan.
The idea that you can’t make any gains in-season is silly. Periodization is important, but a young, developing player can’t put all his building off to the summer. He has to be growing and building all year.
by Leaf in Habland on Dec 20, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought it might’ve been for a rest, but after this game is the Christmas break. Now doesn’t make sense.
Crazy thought: anyone see if he got injured in the VAN game?
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
correct
his first healthy scratch game
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Although… check how many games Stamkos actually missed.
Blogging on hockey at The Globe and Mail
by James Mirtle on Dec 20, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed, we were already Burch’d on that.
Mike Weber: Free to roam the ice and take stupid boarding penalties once more.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
james is a busy guy, but i wouldnt be surprised if he at least skims through all the comments :)
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Right, he didn’t miss tonnes. Neither has Kadri. The concept could hold though is what I am saying.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Complete agreement. Send him to the minors and let him rebuild his confidence. If not, get him into games with the big team. Sitting watching is teaching him nothing…and Lebda being a more valuable asset up front? Puleeze!
by Robert James on Dec 20, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Do the Atlanta Thrashers have a better team on paper than the Maple leafs?
Burke is the type of guy who will take a big shit on the floor right in front of you and then tell you straight faced that it wasn’t him. -Skinnyfish 12/3/10
by Future_considerations on Dec 20, 2010 2:22 PM EST reply actions
Our lineup is printed on double-weight high-quality paper while theirs is printed on toilet paper. That helps.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Written on paper at the beginning of the year? No.
Written on paper right now? Obviously.
Certified Grabbo Lover
Having a point-per-game defenseman and a .944 sv % will do that.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
No one on paper expected Dustin Byfuglien to put up the numbers he is right now; nor did they expect former Hawks third-liner Andrew Ladd to put up first line numbers. No one expected Pavelec to be a lights out goaltender.
Seriously, if Versteeg was playing the way Ladd and Byfuglien have (and no offense to him; it’s more a testament of how well the other two ex-Hawks have been), this team could easily be better right now.
Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 20, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Dear God
Has a .824 save percentage on the penalty kill which is good for 41st among goalies with at least 10 appearances this year
Our PK is atrocious.
20 miles to Legoland!
That 4th line is an abomination.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
It has “all 3 of these guys should be healthy scratches” written all over it.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
omg I just saw this hahahahah – infinity , The GDT will practically write itself..
Burke is the type of guy who will take a big shit on the floor right in front of you and then tell you straight faced that it wasn’t him. -Skinnyfish 12/3/10
by Future_considerations on Dec 20, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Lebda has played forward in the NHL before. He’s clearly been awful on D this year, but he’s got more talent than Orr and Rosehill put together and offense from the fourth line is among the things they badly need.
Maybe in the future a fourth line of Lebda-Bozak-Caputi (assuming Kadri’s in somewhere else) would provide more potential then the two-goons-plus-an-AHL-plugger formulation?
I've been looking at the sky
Yeah, so he played forward before, big whoop. Last season (the one Ron referenced in the press scrum) even with 18 games at forward out of 63 total, Lebda got only 1 goal and 7 assists. That’s it. Surely he’s the better choice than Kadri who has 6 assists in 16 games playing crap minutes thanks to a clueless coach.
Certified Grabbo Lover
I never said he was better than Kadri
But that’s a different issue. I like dressing Lebda at forward better than either of Rosehill or Orr (and especially both at once) so Kadri is irrelevant.
If Kadri is to be scratched, Lebda seems comparable to me to calling up Caputi or Hanson and they’ve already tried those guys.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Dec 20, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
The 4th line is a grind line. It’s a line made to bump and bruise with the other team, get the puck down ice, and get a whistle for an offensive zone faceoff. Caputi, Hanson, Rosehill, Orr, and Brown can do this. Lebda cannot.
Certified Grabbo Lover
Jesus Christ tell me we didn’t trade Ponikarovsky for a 4th liner.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
And we didn’t take the 2nd rounder because….. why exactly?
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
I recall after that trade Burke indicated he had the choice between a 2nd and caputi and he took Caputi.
Basically I continue to be furious at the misuse of Caputi and likening him to a 4th liner is kind of ridiculous.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
Caputi is also hurt right now, that might have something to do with his recent omission from the line up
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I know caputi’s been hurt recently, but in a macro sense this season. The Leafs have not gotten any semblance of depth scoring from the 3rd and 4th lines, meanwhile they have a kid who scored at just under a ppg in the AHL playing 5 minutes a night or sitting in the pressbox.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
oh it is definitely nonsensical, if anything they should have tried the Caputi with Kessel experiment for at least a game or two and told Caputi to just smash around in the corners to create loose pucks
couldnt have hurt
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
They need a Kulemin clone to round out the top two lines.
Caputi’s got the capability to do that and they never used him as such.
Bra-fucking-vo.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
yup, the leafs should have a big body who can be a wrecking ball but still potentially chip in on all three lines
it should go something like
Kulie
Caputi
Armstrong
Hanson
but what do I know?
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
but what do I know?
too much.
/slapjack
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 20, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I’m with this. I thought Caputi had earned a shot coming out of training camp, and he never got it. I hope it’s not because he didn’t fit in the top 6/bottom 6 silliness…
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Dec 20, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Bringing up Caputi likely would mean waiving Mitchell or sending down Kadri, both things the Leafs seem unwilling to do.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
if I had my way (and Caputi was healthy) the lines tonight would be
Kulie – Bozak – Kessel
Caputi – Grabbo – MacArthur
Versteeg – Kadri – Armstrong
Hanson – Brent – Rosehill
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Tough to break up MGK, but I think Kessel misses Kulemin a lot.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Hence the need for a Kulemin clone.
Toronto’s skill forwards are undersized, which makes puck possession such a premium.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
Bring up Mueller
and just tell him to dig in the corners and get the puck to the slot then go to the net.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Mueller has been underwhelming so far in the AHL, save for the one game where he got the hat trick.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
he has been better than his numbers, but yes, his offense has been lacking, guy has all the tools but no tool box…yet
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
DEL to AHL is a Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig jump in competition.
Holzer has struggled early as well.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
See
I don’t see it that way… I think both have been fine, but part of it is who they’re playing with. Holzer and Mueller both held their own defensively in the Olympics. I’m not sure that they’ve regressed in that regard.
I just think from the perspective of style of play, he might be a better fit with that top line than a lot of the other guys we’re mentioning.
Oh and can I just say it hurts my eyes everytime I see that Viktor Stalberg has the 2nd best Corsi rating in the NHL right now.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
I’d love to see the Leafs run a line of Caputi – Hanson – Mueller and just tell them to hammer the other team
it might not be that effective at scoring, but at least it would be fun to watch
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
That’s all a line featuring Rosehill and Orr should be doing.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
Rosehill and Orr do it quite well, but they have granit for hands and any offense created by the forcheck is at best a fluke
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
I was just thinking about this – they don’t have the potential to score, but each one of them has either been billed as a player with the ability to score (Caputi, Mueller), or shown some scoring inconsistent flash (Hanson).
I think the Marlies are going to make up the scoring bottom six we we’re looking for. I mean, none of them really show top six potential, but they have some offensive talent. Work on the defensive game in the A, cut our current fourth line loose and bring those three to bang bodies, get the puck up, and occasionally put it in.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I'd be fine with that
except I doubt they’d produce any more offense than the guys there right now.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Right now? They’re definitely not an option. Absolutely not an option.
But this isn’t a team built for right now. In 3 years?
Versteeg (27) – Bozak (27) – Caputi (25)
Brown (28) – Hanson (27) – Mueller (25)
Down the middle, Irwin (26) would also be an option. I have to think that would be a decent bottom six with an ability to put the puck in the net every now and then.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Yeah
as a sort of Bobby Holik, Steve Rucchin kind of guy maybe… but his skating is a lot weaker, so who knows.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I left Armstrong off that list. He’s not a huge scoring threat, but he would be looking at extension around that time, so he’d at least be another contender on that bottom six wing slot. I think there are brighter things ahead for our bottom six than Lebda and Orr.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
most definitely
It’s just a shame to see them skate around and do nothing right now
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Kessel
will start to find the back of the net with regularity eventually.
The part that worries me about the KBV line is that they were destroyed at evens to start the year, and that hasn’t changed at all. They suck as a group defensively. Their corsi numbers are atrocious, and this is a large part of why versteeg’s +/- is so bad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I hated the idea of VBK before they started playing, then I loved it during the 4 game winning streak, now I’m back to hating it.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, and it would start as an experiment, say with these lines MGC isnt scoring at all, then you give them back Kulie and mix up the spots of Caputi and Armstrong depending on how they are playing, but yeah, whatever
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Oh noes how will the Leafs survive without John Mitchell?
Who will blow scoring chances because they’re always on their backhand now?
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
It would seem they think Mitchell wouldn’t clear waivers.
Who would claim him, NYI?
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Waiving
Mitchell would not result in him being picked up… he’s been horrible all year. Someone taking him off our hands would be doing us a favour.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, just said above, the only team I can see picking up Mitchell would be NYI because he’s only 700k and can’t be worse than some of their lines 2-4.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Pittsburgh didn't have a 2nd rounder at the deadline, they traded it already to Florida by that point.
The Pittsburgh Penguins’ second-round pick went to the Florida Panthers as the result of a trade on March 1, 2010 that sent Jordan Leopold to Pittsburgh in exchange for this pick.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NHL_Entry_Draft
What Burke meant was that he believed Caputi was of equivalent trade value to a 2nd rounder (i.e. he could have gotten a 2nd rounder from another NHL team)
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I think burke mentioned that he could have gotten a 2nd rounder somewhere else, but wanted a player further along in his development and took pitts offer of caputi.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
To which I respond
If that was the logic then why was Caputi playing 5 minutes a night with Orr?
There appears to be no communication between Burke and Wilson on the philosophy of this team. Burke is building a team of square pegs and Wilson keeps trying to fit them into round holes. It’s maddening.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
Burke is building a team of square pegs and Wilson keeps trying to fit them into round holes
The part that frustrates ME is that it looks more like they are both on the same page (I assume they speak every day), and Burke isn’t practicing what he’s preaching.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
this is why i keep a fully stocked beer fridge
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a line made to bump and bruise with the other team, get the puck down ice, and get a whistle for an offensive zone faceoff.
Yeah, what is this, some kind of goal scoring competition? Check Burtch’s post and decide whether the Leafs can continue to afford a fourth line with no offense whatsoever.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Dec 20, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. While no Gretzky, Rosehill brings size, hustle and fear to a forward group than exhibits little. Lebda will not. Another brilliant strategy.
by Robert James on Dec 20, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
C’mon, he’s not brought up to score. At least he keeps some heads up.
by Robert James on Dec 20, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
I’d rather have someone defensively responsible and quietly moving the puck out of our zone. I’m not saying that Lebda is this guy, but I don’t think Rosehill is much of an “agitator” as he is a “wannabe fighter and penalty taker.”
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I don’t mean an agitator. He does bring a certain amount of hustle to the game which seems to be lacking on the team and we do need someone, ANYONE, who is willing to be beat up in the crease. On the ice Lebda’s name is mentioned in a negative sense far too often and I would rather see someone try to get the team motivated than someone who trips & makes poor judgements as often as Lebda.
by Robert James on Dec 20, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Does Sportsnet usually do an online feed? I’m at the cottage and I don’t think Sportsnet is part of the basic cable package.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
We’re in Wasaga… it’s cottage suburbia, nothing like you see in beer commercials. Which is fine by me and the missus, we’re not big on roughing it really, and the beach is awesome for the kids in the summer.
There will be an answer. Let it be.
ah yes, mine is just east of parry sound, we’ve managed to get all the amenities of home except internet.
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
Quit it you guys. I miss ontario cottaging soooo much…
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
After the new year I’m organizing a hockey tournament with my buddies at my cottage. it’s going to be awesome.
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
argh.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
wasaga?
Nice! We have a cottage in tiny township. I heard 92 was completely closed a few weeks back due to weather
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Dec 20, 2010 3:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I said it the other day, but I think the reason Kadri is getting knocked around is due to playing too upright. He’s a smaller player, he needs to use that to his advantage. Play lower to the ice, give the opposition less to hit.
What he does need improvement on is his skating. His acceleration has been lacking.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
His acceleration has been lacking
That’s putting it lightly. I love Kessel’s acceleration, it’s one of his main advantages how he gets a jump on the play and can turn a 2v2 into a breakaway or odd-man rush by making one of the defenders look silly.
Kadri has made some pretty passes and a few sweet dangles but he’s not getting the awesome opportunities because he’s not creating them with his speed
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think one of Kadri’s problems is that he is TOO fearless of traffic, he doesn’t try to avoid it near enough and instead tries to dangle and punch through it, but he isnt strong enough or developed enough to do it effectively.
he needs to try and get more room
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Speed would help that.
Watching some of his junior video footage he was much faster and was getting by defenders on the outside.
He either doesn’t have it or isn’t using it at the NHL level.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
he had the speed in the preseason it seemed, but he for some reason seems to be slowing it down, I don’t think his weight is slowing him down that much, but he seems to have lost his top gear for sure
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
He looked faster in pre-season because he was playing against AHL guys and NHL guys who weren’t in mid-season form. No easy touches anymore.
by Leaf in Habland on Dec 20, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
i actually think Kadri has looked better the past couple weeks then he did in preseason
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
he seems to have lost his top gear for sure
I haven’t seen a lot of fire in his play either. That’s the part that worries me most.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
he seems overwhelmed, but Kadri is a notorious slow starter
even in Jr it took 15 or so games for him to get going every season
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Ya, but last time they attributed his slow play to being a mope about getting sent down, and his “improved play” to an asskicking the Leafs brass gave him.
If that indeed was the diagnosis and treatment (not sure it was), what do they do about now? Is “get stronger” the right answer? I wish I knew.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
he started slow his draft year (attributed to his previous broken jaw)
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
He’s also a 19 year old kid playing on the biggest stage in hockey, with a tonne of pressure on him. Chances are he’s gripping the stick a little tightly. But who wouldn’t be?
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
PK Subban, but he’s a Lvl 10 Poise-master.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So. Much. POISE!!!!!
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
P.K.Chu uses poise!
it’s super effective!
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Someone shoot me down if I'm completely off base here...
…but there have been multiple times where we’ve come to the conclusion in GDTs/other discussions that Burke has assembled a serviceable group of 3rd/4th line plugs who, on a team with established scoring threats, would be very useful?
I know Brown is hurt and he’s one of the better 4th line players out there, but one significant injury and now we’re working with a trio of Orr/Mitchell/Lebda for chrissakes. That’s unacceptable.
Back out, bottom up. That’s how Burke has built this team. It my opinion it should be back out, top down.
Certified Grabbo Lover
What makes me saddest is that for a GM building “from the net out”, we have below average goaltending, “average” defense (good on SA/60, but that’s about it), and very bad offensive output.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
again
the offensive output has been bad amongst the D and the bottom 6. he has too many defensive D men, and not enough scoring options to force some decent scorers into the bottom 6… Armstrong needs to produce more offense, and frankly Phaneuf and Beauchemin need to score more goals.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
frankly Phaneuf and Beauchemin need to score more goals
Putting it mildly. Kaberle too, but at least he’s putting it on net and getting a bunch of assists for his efforts.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
There’s one other defensive metric – our GA/GM is down to 2.94, from ‘09-’10’s 3.21. It was even lower when we were winning games, and I think Giguere’s recent “ow my groin” spate of goals hasn’t helped the number. But I think it’s A) a substantial improvement, and B) likely to be better when we’re doing a better job of puck control (which, recent faceoff and shot numbers suggest is awful).
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Back out, bottom up.
Of our top six, MGK is a set, solid, and I think we can agree at this point, not problematic. Kessel has also been doing well. Kadri wouldn’t be in the top six if Versteeg clicked a little better with Kessel, but Kadri’s not out of place going forwards.
Kadri – ______ – Kessel
Kulemin – Grabbo – Mac
I’m not sure our top six is so busted. The gaping hole at center is a huge, huge problem, but I’m not sure our top 6 is that far away from being legitimate/built. I think the fact that Colton Orr and Brett Lebda are playing shows that our bottom six – even if it’s not the reason we’re losing games – is “less built.”
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I have this bizarre feeling I can’t shake that come the offseason, that hole will be filled by Lecavalier. I can’t see how Tampa is paying him/Stamkos and there aren’t a lot of teams with cap space/need that could help them out.
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
that contract would scare burke off i think…. unless theres a change in philosophy
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
unless he can get Vinny for literal pennies and is sure he can stay healthy for the next 5 or so years, it wont happen
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
contract aside though, he is still a very good player.
and even though that contract is bad, we need a #1 center and he is that for sure..maybe we just gotta go with it.
I wouldn’t be too upset
if we got Lecavalier for something like Komi + a 2nd + Blacker/Ryan i wouldnt be too upset
but if we gave up anything remotely valuable to the Leafs youth movement then I would be pissed
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
One suspects that the lightning would want a goaltender, but that’s hfboards talk.
Mike Weber: Free to roam the ice and take stupid boarding penalties once more.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
yes, a hear and now ready goalie, I dont think they’d want giggy or a prospect, they have a few young not quite there goalies themseves
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
As long as we’re in hfboards land, Vinny for Gustavvson? they might actually do that.
Don’t think burke would though.
Mike Weber: Free to roam the ice and take stupid boarding penalties once more.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
I wouldn’t
cap crippler for a potential 10 goaler (yeah, I said it)
no dice
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, one nagging injury or lack of motivation and the team is screwed long term.
by Robert James on Dec 20, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
I’d scream bloody murder if we did that. We’ve spent a lot of time developing Gustavsson, and to move him without a safety net in place would be suicide. Quite frankly, in any trade that involves taking Lecavalier’s contract, we’re doing them a favor, and the trade would need to reflect that.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
We're not helping ourselves?
by adding Lecavalier?
We wouldn’t want him if we got nothing out of him in the deal… so lets not pretend we aren’t doing ourselves a favour in the process.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
vinny has a ntc right? he may not even want to come here…
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
being number 1 C
is a lot better than number 2 C
Honestly though, if vinny decides to, he could screw tampa in a sense. Force them to deal some of their other depth.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
He’s signed until he’s 40, with a cap hit of 7.3M. With four years remaining on the contract, his salary is still 8.5M. Sure, it’s a gain for us in the short – and even medium – term, but near the end, that contract is god-awful, and we’ll be the ones wondering how to ditch a player well past his hayday, with a cap hit and an NMC that are like a boat anchor. Let alone giving up a goaltender who has spent two years working with our goalie coach, is relatively young, and doesn’t seem to have plateaued his development.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
You can’t assume he’s past his hayday., He’s a couple years removed from his best point totals, sure, but he’s still a hella good player, and he’s playing #2C cuz Stamkos is a wildman.
Sure, its likely he drops off but its not like he’s guaranteed to be Kovalev
I don’t see TOR taking on a Lecavelier contract, then again we did take on Phaneuf’s. Clearly not as ridiciulous in size or length, but still a big one.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
they would need to take back some heavy term salary to make it work, say Komi
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Despite their genuine need to eventually move it if their young players step up in the next few years(Stamkos contract, Hedman, that kid they just drafted), they don’t seem in any rush to push it, at least not publicly.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, they wont move him until the absolutely have to
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what I could see. Komi/Caputu/Rynnas or Reimer. Ha! Now we’re getting into HFboards stuff. I dunno.
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
That wouldn’t do it. Our overpaid third pairing D, a fourth-liner that the team can’t or won’t play in the NHL, and one of two goalies that has never played in the NHL…
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t disagree that a package like that would not be enough. However, I think you are undervaluing the three Leafs included.
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
I am undervaluing them because they are not worth very much on the market at the moment. Is there anything in what I said that’s inaccurate? Tampa’s got scouts, they’ve got eyes, they would do the research before moving their captain. I’m just being realistic. We’d be fine with losing those parts for a reason.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yzerman would definetly shop vinny if he was going to move him
and you know some one (sather/montreal) would put in a better offer
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
The difference between moving lecavalier and some of the other contract dumps like Jokinen (the first time around) and Gomez to Montreal is those players were not producing. Lecavalier is not producing at the same level as he was a few years ago, but he is still light years ahead in talent compared with those two stiffs. Even if they’re moving him for cap reasons the return would still be much more than what we can afford to give up.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Vinny also has a ton of injury issues lately, so that lowers his value, especially combined with such a long term commitment of a contract
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
True. These kinds of intangible factors really come down to how much a GM is willing to risk it. Considering Burke was willing to fork over a ton of cash for Komisarek with his shoulder issues and a bunch of picks for Kessel when he was still healing from his own shoulder, then I suspect he’s willing to roll the dice on injuries.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
I would hope
that the Leafs medical team is vetting these sorts of moves. p.S. if these are continuing issues, how long does it take for someone to wonder about firing the medical staff making all these rotten calls?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Remember when Lindros broke his hand? He almost pissed enough at the Leaf staff to sue if I recall correctly
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
would this be like… our 3rd of 4th medical staff since like 04?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
This is another area
where we can use our huge amounts of money… we should be doing so. The Leafs have their own MRI machine, and a full medical facility in the ACC… they should be paying top notch doctors with impeccable records of managing teams and players.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
totally agree… instead we get the Nolan and Lindros fiascos….. and maybe some new ones with the current group.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Lecavelier is still producing, but Stevie Y is looking long term and Lecav doesn’t fit into the plans of a team looking way into the future. I don’t think it would take as much as people think to unload him.
by Robert James on Dec 20, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
There’s upside there though, that’s the thing. Caputi is a potential 2nd/3rd line. Rynnas/Reimer have been two of the best tenders in the AHL.
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
Why are we dealing Caputi?
We just got him last year, he’s been in the organization less than a season, and he’s only played like 25 NHL games.
He’s a 21 year old kid… jesus. Let’s wait till we have an idea what he’s worth before we move him shall we?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
depending on what we get for him… of course
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I don't get
why we’d move a prospect for a proven player at this point… we did that last year with Stalberg for Versteeg, and that was two 24 year olds…
Unless we’re getting back another 21 year old or something who can produce at the NHL level, I don’t want him dealt.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
or if it is Caputi + something else = say James Neal * then you pack his bags
*offer not valid in reality
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Well, it’s not like this Vinny talk is in any sense a serious debate. Just throwing stuff around is all.
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
It’s all pretty pie-in-the-sky.
Stop throwing pies! I like pie.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
The Leafs have too dark a history of giving up on young players well before they’re ready to mature. I think his attitude alone (skating and muscle development this summer) warrants giving him more time.
by Robert James on Dec 20, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
This speculation is quite silly to be honest.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
pretty much any speculation about the Leafs acquiring top line talent is silly
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Unless we’re talking about Calgary of course.
Do they still have any top line talent?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldnt mind Hagman back to play on kessels other wing
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Hagman would be nice with Mac and Grabbo, would be nice to get Kulemin back with Phil
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
I really liked Hagman when he was here but he really fell off a cliff after the trade. Maybe he likes it better here though? Hmmm..
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
He didn't fall off a cliff.
His production is right around where it’s been most of his career.
He got top line time in Toronto, which explains his production. He isn’t in Calgary… hence the drop in output.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Production in terms of percentages? Cause he’s scored something like 13 goals since he was dealt over a span of 45 games. That’s pretty poor compared with his production in Toronto. If it’s because he’s getting less ice time, then that’s the fault of Calgary and maybe he would be better coming back to Toronto. Doubt that would happen in a trade though.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
in terms of percentages
his year and a half in Toronto were the highest in terms of point output in his career. 0.65 and 0.60 respectively. Before that he had one stellar year in Dallas where he was a .5 ppg player. Now he’s back down to a .52 ppg player. Better than he ever was in Dallas, but worse than Toronto… he’s still useful though as a solid 2nd/3rd line winger.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
A rare case of us selling parts high after buying low. I mean, does anybody really miss any of the parts still in Calgary? Or at all? Realistically?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Hey
not even Calgary misses them… bye bye Mayers and White!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I have to say im surprised at how poorly white played in calgary….. any idea how hes done since moving to carolina?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Hagman defines the streaky scorer
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
except
Clowe for Beauchemin… that makes 100% sense.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I saw someone post this somewhere else the other day. Pavelski instead?
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
Pavelski has been rumoured
but he plays/looks/acts way too much like Versteeg for my liking. They’re virtually identical type players.
Clowe brings a completely different dimension that the Leafs lack… a power forward with size and a solid heavy shot. He goes to the net, and he’s good defensively.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
and it was probably
Jared and I… we’ve been talking about it for weeks… I don’t really see anyone else mention it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
AND THEN GIGGY FOR VINNY!
LEAVES ENOUGH ROOM TO RESIGN WHITE NEXT SEASON!
PLAYOFFS!!!1
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
I’d love to have little joe in a leafs uni, but if we are expending assets i want a big body power forward not another little speedy guy
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Penner or Malone?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'd prefer Penner
Malone is hot right now, and will likely cost a lot on the trade market as a result.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Penner
has history with the Leafs management, and he’s actually a very solid 2 way player, that has a positive impact on his linemates, no matter which line he’s on.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
But isn’t there always issues with motivating him? The Leafs are not a team that can afford or absorb a player who doesn’t give 100% every shift.
by Robert James on Dec 20, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Malone sucks, but would be ok for next to nothing
the oilers would want massive picks/good prospects to compliment their rebuild for Penner
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Malone doesn't really suck
despite arguments to the contrary… he’s just overpriced right now.
Penner won’t be as expensive as you think. He’s signed for one more year past this one at $4.25 mill. I don’t think there’s a huge market for that type of contract frankly…. it’d help the Oilers if they got some D or goaltending help also… we could ship them one of our D prospects.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, i should have stated that Malone’s value sucks
the Leafs don’t really need another over priced “intangibles” guy who “might” bring offense
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
I would be willing to move
one of Aulie or Gunnarsson and one of Rynnas or Scrivens to get Penner.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I am very hesitant to accept that deal, but can’t dismiss it outright
that probably means the value is close
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
think either
Gunnarsson + Rynnas, or Aulie + Scrivens… that type of deal.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
gunnar scrivens would be the ideal, but tambelline should be fired if he takes that.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
yeah obviously
which is why I did the mix and match… but I doubt Edmonton would be dumb enough to bite on that.
If you could throw in the likes of holzer or mikus instead, and add in a late round pick or two, that might do it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
or maybe
Mikus + Rynnas + a 3rd or 4th round pick.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
no more goalie prospects getting traded please and thanks
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
You trade from areas of strength
it’s one thing when we ONLY have 2 prospects to trade 1 away… it’s a completely different issue when you have 4 goalie prospects to talk about dealing 1 of them.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
no more goalie prospects getting traded
certainly not this soon in their development.
I’d be more inclined to lose Scrivens than Rynnas, that’s for sure
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
I also think that the oilers arn’t too interested in goalie prospects with the double D’s they have
they might be interested in a boom or bust prospect like Frattin+Gunnar+Holzer or something
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
yeah that might work
I think the Leafs want to keep Frattin in case he pans out in the NHL though… we’ll see how he does next season… but he’ll get signed and get a shot eventually.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
he's another young scoring forward
with size… they are still working with that whole lightning in a bottle mentality… eventually they’ll get lucky with someone.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Frattin is flat out nuts too, if he reaches his potential he is going to be a helluva agitator
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah Burke
probably likes that he’s shown a solid dose of Psycho in his school daze so far.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Frattin, Ross, D’Amigo, Armstrong, Kadri
Teams are going to flat out hate playing against us sooner or later.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
Hmm
D’Amigo and Kadri are pretty small… they’ll just annoy people a lot a la marc savard or matt cooke or patrick kaleta.
I’d like to see them score more though at the AHL level.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
they arn’t that small though, sure they arnt heavy weights but they are just below NHL average size
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
I don't mean like
midget small… I just think it’d be nice if they were above average size.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
well yes, helps that D’amigo is built like a fire hydrant, he’s already over 200lbs
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Dale
Mitchell is in this group also.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Mitchell doesn’t seem to have the skill set to be anything more than a 3rd line shut down guy though
excellent mustache credentials though
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
I don't
seriously see many of the guys we just listed as top 6 forwards at this point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
D’amigo is still just 19 though, so he (and others) have more time before I can confidently categorize their ceilings
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Future third line…if they pan out, Ross-Fratin-??. Yikes.
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
Armstrong would probably round that out
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
You know guys, in a couple years this is going to be a good little hockey team. It may be tough until the kids arrive…but it looks like they are on the way.
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
I think our bottom six is destined to be excellent. Mueller, Caputi, Hanson, Bozak, Frattin, Armstrong, Ross, Versteeg, D’Amigo – a lot of those guys come with “maybe second line” potential, too.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
They're
all 3 or 4 years from being solid players though… which is how long this team is going to take to be really competitive.
We need an average age of around 28, which won’t happen for about 2 years minimum.
Hopefully by that point we’re competitive in all areas.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely, and some (if not most) of them won’t pan out. But it’s competition for the position, and it’s a cupboard that looks better than it did two years ago.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
It’s starting to look pretty stocked. McKegg as well, making a believer out of me this season.
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
McKegg has 22 points more than anyone else on his team and is 4th in OHL scoring
one man show
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Haven’t seen much other than highlights…anyone had a chance to catch him live?
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
I saw him play sauga not too long ago. Jared is pretty much spot on…. in Erie, hes a one man show. Alot of fun to watch actually
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Can you project him to someone…he’s a speed guy with finish is the book?
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
slick hands, attacks the net, good vision, not overly physical but not afraid to muck it up… not sure who to compare him to exactly though
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Pick a hall of famer. All prospects are equal to hall of famers.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
steve yzerman or joe sakic probably, maybe brett hull with alexander mogilnys skating
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
half of gretzkys brain
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm…I like that package!
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
Also important is
we can’t say he’s producing as a result of being on another star’s wing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I like this
because it means he doesn’t require solid linemates to produce… good good.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly why I left him off the list of “3rd, maybe second line players.” Can’t wait to see his first or second pro season.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I was hoping for him to at least get a shot at the WJC, just because i want to see what he can do with other players who can score
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
If
they can crack the lineup, I’m very pleased… I doubt they will, but weirder things have happened.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
not to mention who ever the leafs draft 33rd over all right?
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
that kids going to be a stud
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what we said back when Poni, Antro, Stajan, Coli, Steen, Stralman, Bell, Harrison, White etc. were the wave of the future.
Let’s not count any chickens until they’re hatched.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Dec 20, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
solid chance
nobody was interested.
He may yet come back… who knows.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
I think Stephano gets one more shot next year
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Quadruple Ds!
Massive.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Penner goes UFA after the end of next year. Not sure why we’d burn assets on him when he doesn’t address the need at center. I’d rather move for a center and just wait for Penner. If his relationship with management is as good as it’s supposed to be, that seems like the best payoff.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I don't think the need at C is as high as we think
I think it’s the TYPE of player we need… a sizable presence down low… I don’t think it has to be a C necessarily.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
given the choice I’d take a 1C over a 1LW, but id be pleased as punch with either
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
we’re looking for another top 6 player with size… Penner definitely fits that role.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Especially because the list of “top-line centers with size” is not very long.
Mike Weber: Free to roam the ice and take stupid boarding penalties once more.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
exactly
We did this last year, but if you make a list of the top 6 F in the NHL with size and an ability to score/go to the net, you don’t get a very long list.
Penner, Malone, Perry, Franzen, Kunitz, Ladd, Clowe… I’m struggling to come up with a lot more… Brown? Smyth?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Also whenever someone is looking for a top line center with size they mean “I want Ryan Getzlaf”
Mike Weber: Free to roam the ice and take stupid boarding penalties once more.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
Yes
but he’s pretty close to untouchable as far as Anaheim is concerned.
Love to have him… we’ll never get him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Or Eric Staal, or Joe Thorton
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
indeed there are other choices but the prototype in almost everyone’s mind seems to be Ryan Getzlaf.
Mike Weber: Free to roam the ice and take stupid boarding penalties once more.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
I'd definitely prefer
Getzlaf to Staal… he’s better defensively, and he plays a bigger game… he also produces more points.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
well Getzlaf has had Perry all along, and recently Ryan.
Not saying he isn’t better, but who has Staal played with? Cole? the mummified corpse of rod the bod?
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
.93 PPG for Getzlaf
.90 PPG for Staal…playing with chad larose and the like.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
imagine him with Kessel on the wing?
/sigh
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
/splurt
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Staal is very streaky and more of a shooter than a passer. He’s not the best fit.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
hes a very good hockey player, i wouldnt complain.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Another question, though: If Kadri is a wing-based passer (which he seems to be doing fairly well at) – is there anything wrong with that?
Kadri-Staal-Kessel
Passer-Shooter-Shooter
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
We're not getting Staal
so this is a moot point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
hey. dont bring us down man.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
its ok, if we can’t get Staal, we’ll just get Nash
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't bring up Staal
but, my point was the whole figuring out a line that would include either player is a bit beyond the discussion’s scope.
I don’t care which one is a better fit with Kadri in particular on the wing vs. the middle… we aren’t getting either one.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I tried to phrase it in a way that wasn’t moot – I mean, it is sort of a team building based question:
Can a passing winger be expected to carry the puck movement on the top line? I know we need elite talent, regardless of play style, but given the option, do we target a player with a better reputation for passes or goal scoring?
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I think you target anyone who can put up points consistently.passer, shooter, whatever
ideally you want someone who can do both and be physical but you take what you can get and hope for chemistry
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
yea, the leafs really arent in a position to be that picky… i dont think…. unless we are will to keep missing the playoffs until you find the ‘perfect’ fit
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Totally agree. We’re not in the position of “targeting” one type of elite talent over another. Just thought birky’s comment begged the question: What is a “best fit?”
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
in columbus
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
well if we were to take the UFA crop as it stands now, Semin and Richards, I’d say the play maker Richards is a better fit for this team
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
see neither one
particularly has size.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think
either one solves the main issue as I see it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
well semin is 6’2 210ish and his a bull on the puck, he doesnt impose his size on anyone though
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
He likes to slap fight
I just don’t think of him as a power player.
Maybe I’m underestimating, I’d just like someone with more jam in the corners.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
sadly, there is no one like that available in UFA this season
I’d be happy with a pure offense player and put someone like Caputi on the line to do the grease work and benefit from playing with superior offensive players
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
I personally
would value the size aspect at this point. I don’t care if he’s a big body that can pass (Thornton or Getzlaf) or a big body that can shoot (Marleau, Staal, etc) or one that does a bit of both… I just want a forward with size that can score … passing or scoring is not the key issue to me right now.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but he is going to demand more attention than Kessel, attention he is used to.
that opens up a shit ton of ice for Kessel to do his thing, they probably wouldnt boost each others point totals a ton directly, but the extra time and space would be a blessing to both their box cars
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Staal has averaged more shots per game in his career than Getzlaf or Kessel have in theirs, and is about the same as Jeff Carter in a SPG rate.
His S% is almost a full percentage point higher than Carter’s.
Streaky or not, he’s an excellent fit. A fit that will never happen unfortunately.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
as much as I hate Eric Staal, I find it weird how little love he gets in the 1C talk
dude is a stud but is almost never mentioned when talking about elite players in the league
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
I dont mention him because i’m still bitter.
Mike Weber: Free to roam the ice and take stupid boarding penalties once more.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
Ray Whitney’s the best he ever had.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
Skinner is looking like a good option,
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Jussi Jokinen
Tuomo Ruutu, and Skinner really aren’t that crappy.
Carolina can score, they just have some lack on the defensive side of things.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Bozak is probably the only person in our top 6 who really hasn’t been earning those minutes. In my mind, he needs to be bumped out of the top six by elite talent. So if we add at the wing, we need to shift someone to center to push Bozak down. Either that, or one of Kadri, Kulemin, MacArthur, or Kessel need to be moved down.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Kadri, versteeg, and Kessel
can all play Centre.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
And all have been brutal on faceoffs.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Brett Lebda Cap Clock - $2,315,323 to go!
Versteeg
is over 52% on draws… not sure how that’s “brutal”
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Kadri is the only one I’d like to even try shifting. The other two have had success at wing, and know how to play the position well. if we’re targeting players out of the blue, I’d prefer someone who already knows how to play C, and is unlikely to lose some of their game by shifting position.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
this is true
but I don’t see him sticking around Edmonton at that price when his contract expires. They’ll want the cash to pay their new “core” forwards.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Potential ridicu-question: any chance we could squeak Marleau out of SJ, now that he’s having an “average” year?
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
he just re-signed last season, i don’t see him getting moved unless he asked for it (does he have an NTC?)
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
i suppose. i think he does have a NTC.
He’s been underwhelming this year so it’s possible that he could be available.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
or hope and pray you can get that kind of play out of Aulie/Gunnarsson
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Longer term
I’d say getting solid D out of Aulie isn’t beyond the realm of reasonable possibility. Gunnarsson or Holzer are also possibilities. I don’t expect Beauchemin to be playing on the team when they get good… and frankly they would be saving money on D that they could spend elsewhere.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
I have to think both Komi and Beauch are gone in the next 3 years. I’m far more worried about replacing Beauch (Aulie?) than I am Komi (Schenn.).
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
yeah, Aulie is more comparable to Komi.
Schenn has at least shown glimpses at being able to produce at a decent offensive clip for a defensive shut down guy
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
The comparisons were about the sides they play on, more than the player types. We’re Schenn-Phaneuf-Komisarek (gone) down the right side, Beauch (gone)- Kaberle (gone)-Gunnarsson down the left side. Komisarek gets replaced by a rookie at 3RD, but down the left side? Aulie and Gunnarsson are maybe second defensemen, but who steps into that #1LD slot?
(Note: the “gone” notes who I think will be gone in three years, when I think this team will be really competitive.)
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I guess my thinking is that if the goal of trading Beauchemin for Clowe is to improve the team, I’m not sure it’s totally sound. You’ve now got a big hole on defense that you either have to fill through free agency or hope one of your two young LDs can do it. You’re swapping one area of issue for another.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
you can never go wrong with a newfie
unless his name is Ryder
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
What's to be sold on?
He’s a 0.70+ ppg player playing 2nd line minutes on a good team… give him 1st line minutes at ES and on the PP and you’d see those numbers jump.
Right now he’s actually producing .91 ppg, so he’s producing above the rate I’d expect with the Leafs, but still.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
to be fair i’m pretty sure you said something similar about versteeg too.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
This is true
I did.. and Versteeg is on pace for a career high in goals and possibly points (55+ at least)… so he isnt’ exactly a complete loss up front.
Versteeg has never been a 0.7 ppg player though… he’s currently sitting at 0.65, and prior to that his best year was his first full one in Chicago where he was 0.68
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
agreed but we (including you) thought his numbers would jump getting more minutes with Toronto, and they really haven’t.
hence my apprehension with Clowe.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
well
he hasn’t really seen a huge increase in minutes on the top line.
He’s playing the point on the PP more which helps, but his ES minutes have come on the 3rd line a lot which is where he was in Chicago.
He may not be suited to a top 6 role, and I understand the apprehension, but I don’t think he’s failing to live up to his hype or anything, I just think he needs to find the right niche.
Long term the more I see him, the more I think 6th/7th man amongst the top 6… he really isn’t a top line guy.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose
but I guess my question is, which one is a larger need long term. We don’t seem to have a top 6 winger with size in the system that is about to play on the Leafs. We do have a few good young D that aren’t far off. I’m willing to take some lumps short term.
Also as you said, free agency isn’t impossible for defensive D men.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
that’s certainly true about free agency. And if Burke chasing Hamhuis and Martin last summer was any indication, he’s still not satisfied with the D core
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Kaberle replacements if anything
I bet dollars to donuts if Burke had landed either best offer for Kaberle would have been snapped up
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
UFAs on D coming up this year include
McCabe, Hannan, Jovanovski, Brewer, Pitkanen, Bieksa, Phillips, Wisniewski, Ehrhoff, White, Sopel, Wallin, Vandermeer, Hejda, Gill, Huskins, Stuart, Montador, Skrastins, Salei, O’donnell, Ericsson, Lilja, Greene, etc.
I’d definitely take a run at Hejda, Phillips, or Gill from a defensive standpoint, and I could see Burke and Nonis going after Bieksa, Jovanovski, Ehrhoff, Stuart, Montador, Skrastins, etc.
We’ll have options.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
This
is another reason to let Kaberle walk… spend that money signing someone better.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
for sure
and we can get someone equivalent, or better, for the same amount we’d spend on him… honestly I’m not sure what Kaberle is thinking, but he isn’t going to get a huge raise this offseason.
Maybe he’ll sign for cheap, but otherwise I’m not sure how they spin it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather have
Pitkanen producing 45 points and occasionally taking the body or shooting the puck – who is only 28… rather than Kaberle who is 32 and won’t be getting any younger.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I’d just rather use the cap space to sign/trade for a forward and keep anything extra for next season.
that ufa crop has to be better than this one……….. .right?
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Up front?
not sure why.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
nope not really at all
Drury, Smyth, Huselius…
Doan, Langkow…
ok here’s some: Penner, Hemsky, Boyes, Sharp, Ruutu, Umberger, Kunitz, Hecht..
you aren’t going to find a star this way… sorry.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Grabo
is UFA in 2 years, Jiri Hudler, Lee stempniak, Rich Peverley…
there really ain’t much out there in 2012.
Trade trade trade. draft draft draft Develop develop develop
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
One can hope that the success of MacArthur may encourage the management to try out some more of these 1-year contracts. I’d rather see the cap space used that way and see if we can find some bargains.
Oh, four! I mean five! I mean fire! Now available in lite version!
He’s still good at both ends of the ice. He can play 20 mins a night, and won’t need a long term contract. Dion Phaneuf also had his best season playing with Hamrlik in Calgary.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Why?
there’s a bumper crop on the horizon… I say trade the guys we’eve got and sign one or two shut down guys to reasonable deals while we let the kids continue to develop slowly… even if we just bring in one that’s good.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
If , yes, but until that happens, no more UFA d-men
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
all the time…he’s no shutdown guy and he wouldn’t make a good partner with free-wheeling Dion. I was being sarcastic but it didn’t really come through
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 20, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think either team would agree straight up?
by Robert James on Dec 20, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Totally, but hey we all play armchair GM at home!
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
and the occasional games of
pocket pool
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Four years of Brad
Three Luke Schenns
Two Special Teams
and a Center for Phil Kessel
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Bottom up is great if you can acquire top line talent through free agency. Too bad that rarely happens anymore
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
It’s been said often but Burke must have been counting on getting the Sedins. He’s been scrambling ever since.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
which, if true, is so bad of a plan i wouldnt be against firing him based on that alone…. who the fuck plans on rebuilding a team by assuming 2 of the best UFA’s will sign with them and then have plan B be, trade my first round picks in a panic if i dont get my established stars…
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
or Marleau or Thornton or whatever. Simply put, twice in two summers he has waited for free agency and there was nothing he wanted.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
don’t worry, this year there are richards and Semin!
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Serviceable in what respect?
Mitchell was ok as an idea when he was putting up points, but so far this season he has all of 1 assist and no goals. that isn’t serviceable it’s pathetic.
Tim Brent and Colton Orr are the leading scorers amongst the bottom 6… that should demonstrate some serious issues. Armstrong has 1 goal, Mitchell has none, and Sjostrom has 1… how the hell are they getting out scored by Brent and Orr?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Brent and Orr are getting in from of the net, that’s how.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
No
they aren’t really scoring… the problem is the rest of the bottom 6 NOT scoring.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry that was my point… maybe if they were going to the tough areas of the ice they’d have more success? I mean if Orr and Brent can get those “goals”, Sjostrom and Army should be able to as well…. or maybe it’s as simple as they aren’t good offensively.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
The goals by Orr and Brent make for a total of five… there isn’t anything they’re doing particularly right. The point is that Sjostrom and Armstrong shouldn’t need pure luck to score.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Dec 20, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
What they need
is the opposite of bad luck… so in some senses it’ll improve.
Armstrong IS better offensively than he has shown so far.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Armstrong's
shooting less (about 0.5 shots per game fewer) and his shooting percentage is way down. He is currently sitting around 7% below his career shooting percentage… that is unlikely to continue.
Similarly for Sjostrom, he’s firing the puck on goal less than he has historically, but his main problem is his shooting percentage is like 3% below his career average.
They both should improve in the 2nd half to be honest.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
You’d think someone would at least be scoring by accident.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
You would
I’m thinking Orr and Brent may fall in that category… it is odd that everyone’s taking a nosedive in production at once.
Grabovski’s percentages are pretty over the top right now though, so he’ll slow down eventually.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
So what you’re saying is they’ve got to stop trying to score goals in order to score goals? Genius.
Certified Grabbo Lover
To some extent yes
clutching the sticks tight, putting too much pressure on one’s self mentally… they need to relax. They’ll start to do that when the pressure comes off after they pancake in January… then they’ll start to produce again… which is what we always see from the Leafs… oh well.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Brent is at
12% which seems a bit high.
Orr is at 22.2%… definitely too high.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
so you’re saying our 4th line should shoot more
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
not really
their shots just aren’t going in… and that’s random variation really. It’ll go in eventually… they just need to keep applying pressure and getting shots on net.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
On the good news front
kessel’s 9.4% is low.
MacArthur’s 17% is definitely too high.
Kulemin, Grabovski, and Versteeg are all around 12-13% which is where they should be.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
well
the last line is also decent news. Bozak’s 4.9% is also low… there’s a lot of improvement to be expected. The Leafs shooting percentages are ridiculously low as a team right now.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
That’s how Lebda got his assist.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
I love how this is singular.
Pumps out more male with one thrust of the pelvis than the United States postal service over the last 146 years.
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 20, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Reading thru the thread
Saw Caputi’s name mentioned many times. I only have one thing to say:
You’re all biased.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Dec 20, 2010 3:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions
for him?
or against him?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
You can't answer an OR
question with Yes… unless the options are Yes OR No.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
well you can
but I’d rather if you didn’t.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
he can do whatever he wants to be
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Fire engine
it is.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
that’s it, he’s going to clown college.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
So...
either there’s a huge group of folks on break from work, or suddenly the Leafs playing Atlanta is the most fascinating thing in the world right now.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 4:15 PM EST reply actions
me too!
/high five
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
me threeeee!
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
four. although it’s guaranteed to bite me in the ass later!
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Five
Exam tomorrow evening…dammit.
I'm thinking that when the Leafs win the Cup, I'll lose my drinking problem.
by leafsfan4life94 on Dec 20, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
but there’s enough HW for me to keep procrastinating
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
I'm a teacher
and Friday was our last day of school until the 3rd… so that’s my excuse.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
work is dead right now… will probably stay that until after new years. Lots of time for PPP…. too bad this is the last game until boxing day. Although I will be at the WJC exhibition game tomorrow.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 20, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Kadri sitting out a few games
That idea is fine and dandy, but what the Leafs don’t realize is that fitness guru Gary Roberts played a large role in conditioning Stamkos into the player he became the following seasons.
Also, you know the team is getting desperate when they place Lebda on the fourth line as a winger.
The weird part of this discussion is
Gary Roberts and what Gary Roberts does is not rocket science. There are a lot of fitness people on the planet that can do what Gary Roberts does. He’s done great work with other players in the past, that’s nice… but he didn’t invent exercising… can we please stop pretending like the fact that Roberts isn’t around is somehow going to hinder Kadri’s development?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Stamkos
was a 1st overall pick, that many people were saying would turn into a phenomenal player… that has happened… I don’t think Gary Roberts did a lot to change his skill level. He helped him get stronger… Stamkos credits him for it… great.
Sidney Crosby and Alex Ovechkin are also pretty strong kids, but I don’t recall them thanking Gary Roberts for everything they’ve become… let’s not diminish Stamkos’ input to the process just because he’s modest.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
In fairness, Roberts deflected responsibility and credited Stamkos’ own skill and hard work to his improvement, not Roberts’ program.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, Roberts sorta did help Sid.
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
I don't think Crosby
credits Roberts for his offensive output.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
or his body building techniques
he credited him for changing the tone in the room… not quite the topic under discussion.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
hence the “sorta”. I do remember Sid saying he spent a couple of days with Roberts in the summer early in his career, but can’t find a link.
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
You mean
their forwards are all tiny and lack strength? This has nothing to do with the training staff..
Maybe if we drafted more 6’2" kids who weigh 200 lbs… that’d help. We had Stalberg last year and traded him… that didn’t help.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
You think
having them train in the off season with Gary Roberts would help with that? That’s sort of weird.
Also… they don’t lack effort in the first period of every game… but you use your eyes and develop whatever rules you’ve got going for you… I’m sure it works.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
fitness isnt the teams main issue, its probably not even top 20
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Wrong
but whatever.
Being young might have something to do with it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
lack of top end talent.
lack of experience
lack of consistancy
lack of scoring from the bottom 6
lack of scoring from the D
special teams
etc etc
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Counterpoint
Schenn and Grabbo have been nails.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
And Kulemin, and the MacArthur signing, and Versteeg has found a good role.
It’s a young team. I’d say the number one problem this team has are impatient fans. “Brian Burke – blow it up and rebuild!” “It’s been like 2 years and the team isn’t good yet! Everything about this team is terrible!”
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
To be fair
When you trade away 2 first round picks for Phil Kessel, who is a great goalscorer but very streaky and very soft, the atmosphere will get toxic.
its about value
that is value for a player of kessels ability, think of a player who is better at hockey than kessel and how much you think he would cost via draft picks?>
you can argue the timing of the kessel deal, but you cant really argue value
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
I do agree that what pissed me off the most about the trade was more the timing than anything.
Was Kessel worth 2 first round picks and a 2nd round pick? Maybe, if you already have a good team in place. If your team is relatively unproven with a boatload of question marks, and hasn’t made the playoffs since 2004, it’s an extremely risky move.
It was an extremely bold move, and it’s not looking good so far. That’s hindsight, but I wasn’t in agreement with the trade even at that time. I just didn’t think the team was ready to make a trade like that.
“Brian Burke – blow it up and rebuild!” “Brian Burke, you’re not doing it right! Blow it up and rebuild it how we want you to!”
I’m all for discussing Burke’s strategy of building a team – there have been some great fan shots on the topic – but to say “you moved draft picks! That’s bad!” is ludicrous. It’s really hard to draft a Phil Kessel. It’s really rare that a talented goal scoring RFA moves teams. We paid fair market value for Phil Kessel.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
is there an echo in here?
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
it's not even the whole team
they don’t suck… they’re just very young. they’ll get better with age and experience.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
no, not really, he might be in the top 20, but he isnt the main, not even close
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Our players just straight up aren’t talented as other teams’ are, for one.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
tell me how ron wilson IS the main problem
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
“Also… they don’t lack effort in the first period of every game… but you use your eyes and develop whatever rules you’ve got going for you… I’m sure it works.”
Have we been watching the same Leafs team?
That was my point
you obviously interpret it differently than I do… which works for you.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Vicktor “afraid of the corners despite being a giant” stalberg
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
2nd highest corsi number
in the nHL…. just saying.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Playing with Toews and Kane will do that to a guy
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Theirs
are lower than his… so I’m not sure how.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Stalberg's Corsi
is a full 7 shot attempts per 60 higher than Kane’s… Kane and Toews aren’t even 2nd and 3rd on the team. They’re good, but Stalberg is having a significant impact. Jack Skille is #2 on the team.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
ya
playing with Kane and Tooews opens up space for Stalberg.
Or are you implying that he is somehow better than either of those two?
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Somehow?
Yes his Corsi number is better… that isn’t implied… I said it straight out.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
also
the point here would be… how does them producing more space for him increase his corsi number by 7 shots per 60 minutes OVER theirs? It’s shot attempts by all players on the ice… thus measuring it for individuals would be THEIR impact… the OFF value is how the team does without them… he has the highest CORSI REL value on the Blackhawks… Toews is second… and Stalberg’s REL is 2 shot attempts higher than Toews.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
please stop overthinking this
are Kane and Toews less talented than Stalberg as players?
that’s what i’m trying to figure out.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
they
put the puck in the net better… they have much higher shooting percentages… they are better all around.
But Corsi is just a matter of helping maintain puck possession, and getting shots towards the opposition net. Stalberg’s size and speed are superior to probably both Toews and Kane… he’s definitely bigger than both, and he could well be faster than both. Those are great attributes to have in a player. he might not turn into a 40 goal man, but with his wheels and size he could easily become a 20+ goal guy, and perhaps a 30+ goal guy if he puts together the whole package.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
i’m not sure if this is a yes or no answer
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
maybe?
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
They'll be better off long term
playing with the likes of Stalberg on their wing than they would with Byfuglien… is that an ok statement to make?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Stalberg has the size and straight ahead speed over the other two, but I think Kane & Toews are both smarter and more creative than Stalberg.
by Robert James on Dec 20, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
please re-read my comment.
i didn’t mention Corsi
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 20, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
you asked if I was somehow implying he's better
and I’m saying I’m not implying… I’m saying he’s better in the aspect of Corsi Number… so yes… I’m somehow saying he’s better… there’s no implying involved.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
this feels like
a monty python sketch.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
i feel like this argument is going to spiral me into some inescapable vortex.
black hole!!
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
yes
behind the net has it… just change the year in the page address.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
on
on = while on, off = while off, rel = in comparison to the rest of the team.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
He was 5.49
last year as a rookie… not bad particularly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Dread Pirate.
What I wouldn’t give for one more year of him…
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Leafs aren’t desperate. There is a roster freeze. That’s why it has to be Lebda.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I think he must have been sent down before the roster freeze. That’s a good question though because that’s what the TV told me but you’ve raised a good question.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Burke said that movement between the Leafs and Marlies was not part of his roster freeze
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
It’s the NHL’s roster freeze.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Oh Kadri
"It’s just a big learning process. So far, I thought I was doing pretty well for myself but I think (I have to get better at) down-low battles and getting stronger on my feet," he said.
"Staying lower to the ice is probably my main concern right now. Once I figure that out, I think I’m going to turn out to be one pretty good hockey player."
We sure hope so.
20 miles to Legoland!
Whoops, source
Maple Leafs show Nazem Kadri some tough love
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
You mean?
he needs to widen his skating stance and stay low? he has to figure out body position and leverage for a smaller player?
He skates too straight up on his feet, but that’s always been an issue… he needs to prepare himself better for contact also. I think he’s too used to avoiding contact in Junior, or initiating it himself… he’s caught by surprise a lot along the boards far as I can tell.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
hmmm, Matt Stajan had identical 2nd year OHL numbers to Mckegg’s 2nd year numbers
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:46 PM EST reply actions
totals rather, differing assist and goal totals
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve even heard, from people that have actually watched him play live, that McKegg reminds them of Matt Stajan, but can score more.
mckegg’s actually on pace for less points in his third year than stajan had.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
hmm, and it looks like Stajan was a one man show himself in that 3rd year, so no linemates making him look better either
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
the numbers paint Mckegg as a (slightly) better finisher, so who knows
If McKegg turns out to be as good an NHL player as Stajan is, then the Leafs got a steal in the 3rd
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
i could live with that.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Stajan 2.0 with 25% less receding hairline.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
and 200 percent more fart face
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Better strap that helmet on tight, son.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Also on the 2001-2002 Belleville Bulls :
Spezza
Wellwood
Cody McCormick
Andre Deveaux
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
yeah, but its the 02-03 bulls that are more relevant as stajans totals spiked when he was leaned on to carry the offense
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, just saw that one. I think you hit the nail on the head, though – if McKegg puts up Stajan numbers, I’m fine with that so long as he isn’t the centerpiece of the organization.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
yup, we wont be leaning on him to carry the team, but he looks like he could potentially be a very good complimentary piece
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 20, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Insert “not sure if serious.gif”
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 20, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
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