Maple Leafs 3 v. Thrashers 6: What's The Deal?
by PPP on Dec 20, 2010 10:53 PM EST
in Game Recaps
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PrintThe Toronto Maple Leafs fell 6-3 to the Atlanta Thrashers in a game that could have gotten out of hand much earlier than it eventually did. Some fortuitous bounces kept the Leafs in the game before shoddy defending, a brutal turnover, and a softie from Jonas Gustavsson. For the first three minutes of the game the Maple Leafs did not cross the red line in control of the puck. Frankly, it was an embarrassing start. The tide was only shifted because the MGK line played their regular great game and because the Thrashers sat on their lead.
The Maple Leafs are an enigma. This is no surprise. What shocks me beyond the consistent inconsistency, the terrible special teams, and the non-stop goaltending carousel is how Leafs players have scrambled to defend Ron Wilson. Jean-Sebastien Giguere has spoken about how he has built a positive atmosphere in the dressing room, Nazem Kadri talks about how he welcomes Wilson's coaching, and now Clarke MacArthur referred to the fans getting on Ron Wilson 'sickening'. Funny, I would have used that word to describe the effort of about 16 of the Toronto Maple Leafs on most nights. Without being in the dressing room, I wonder why the players are so vocal in their defence of Wilson. Maybe it's Burke's efforts to put together a high character team paying off or maybe Wilson's lip service to accountability is comforting to the players or maybe they really believe that he is giving them the tools to succeed but they just aren't able to. I am not sure which one is the truth or which one is more terrifying. Or as one Twitterer put it: for how much longer can the players say that the blame lies with them and not Ron Wilson while not responding on the ice?
Corsi and Fenwick | EV Face-Offs | H2H Time on Ice | Scoring Chances
Game Summary | Event Summary | Birdwatchers Anonymous Recap
Odds and Sods:
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The Corsi stats for the entire team look great. That the Leafs trailed almost the entire game is certainly a factor in that result. The Tyler Bozak, Kris Versteeg, and Phil Kessel line especially ran roughshod.
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For all of the hand-wringing, Phil Kessel played 4.6 and 3.3 minutes of EV time with John Mitchell and Brett Lebda. My guess is that he was being double shifted to get him away from the top pairing of Dustin Byfuglien and Tobias Enstrom.
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The Leafs directed 40 shots, 33 missed shots, and had 15 blocked. That's a lot of effort to get three goals.
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The Leafs won 48% of the face-offs. This is demonstrably a skill that can be taught and learned but in the meantime it is killing the Leafs.
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Ho-hum, another two point night for Mikhail Grabovski. If I could bottle his desire and infuse it in the rest of this team...
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The Leafs won the scoring chance battle 21-17. They were down 6-1 by the time the score was 2-0. Good thing the Leafs were ready from the outset.
The Waffles once again made an appearance. Video is below. I wish the fan had waited for this attack to finish before launching a box of eggos. He got tossed but the Leafs responded with two goals. Coincidence? Maybe fans should shower the Leafs in waffles before every game.
WaffleMen Rating:
Four out of five Waffle Men
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Oh yeah, fuck. Let me adjust it.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
at least Luke looked pissed about the waffles
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
and a knife and fork. Plates, too
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
I’d support a lucky fan getting to hit the Leaf (coach, executive, owner and Alan Frew) of their choice with a waffle iron.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
3 whacks minimum at Alan Frew.
I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.
by kidkawartha on Dec 20, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
WHOA-OH-OH
THIS IS CANADA’S FOOD.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 20, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I posted first! /pouts
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
Mine
fits the musical beat better.
/sticks out tongue
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 20, 2010 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
oh, fine
you win
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
isn’t there 2 lines that are similar in the song? (I blocked the song out of my memory) in which case you can both use your lines.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Dec 20, 2010 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
YES
I call a truce:
WHOAH OH OH THIS IS CANADA’SSONGWAFFLE
(GO WAFFLES GO)
WHOAH OH OH THIS IS CANADA’STEAMFOOD
(GO WAFFLES GO)
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
no
song and team are both still one syllable/beat.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 20, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
no, but seriously
I agree to the truce
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 21, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Palmateer didn’t suck. v1.0, anyway.
Why were they talking about Fred Sasakamoose?
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Personally
I think the waffle thing is awesome.
Follow me here:
Remember when Florida did the rat thing?
If the Leafs ever score a big playoff OT goal again before the world ends, imagine the ice being covered by a downpour of waffles as the team celebrates?
Awesome
Smoke Weed Every Day.
When the Leafs make the playoffs, I think fans should throw BLUEberry waffles.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
When the Leafs make the playoffs
I don’t give a shit what happens, because the Leafs finally made the friggin playoffs
If you look up "Loyalty" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of a Leafs fan wearing a Todd Gill jeresy looking like he just got punched in the stomach
by Ghostsof on Dec 20, 2010 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
2015 will be a magical year.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
by mf37 on Dec 20, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sobering realization
If that’s the case, I’ll go through my entire 20’s without seeing them make the playoffs.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 20, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Just kidding
That didn’t make me sober. LOLZ
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 20, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
recd
for the lulz
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll have been through my teens :(
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
Fewer years
But still sad.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 20, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
yep
I was 10 last time I saw a playoff game. 10!
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
Yes – he saw the first periods of games 1-3.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
me’s a she
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
When I was a kid, I always had to go to bed at the end of the second period, although they were PM starts back in the day.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
ha
probably not, I don’t really remember. I demand a playoff appearance while my age still starts with 1- !!
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
Wafflecannon at the top of the CN Tower, raining down waffles on the entire city after every Leafs playoff game victory. We can make this happen, let’s start fundraising and logistical planning next week.
I’m surprised MLSE hasn’t hit the market with Leaf brand waffles (done in under 3 minutes).
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
by mf37 on Dec 20, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Easily-burned and never taste as good as they suggest.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
by 1967ers on Dec 20, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Late contender
for comment of the year.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 20, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Kessel was playing with Mitchell/Lebda because Colton Orr took a shot to the hand and was injured.
The irony
Of Orr hurting his hand from a puck and not punching someone in the face is delicious.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 20, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
What's this about waffles?
Too busy looking at the lady wearing team canada jersey (at about 0:38 to 0:40 in video) to care about anything else at the moment…
by Slava Duris #24 on Dec 20, 2010 11:15 PM EST reply actions
pretty ordinary. might be kinda young.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 20, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
what can I say, I’m a sucker for brunettes in Team Canada jerseys…
by Slava Duris #24 on Dec 20, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
heh, you were looking at the girl, I was looking at Luke <3
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
better go to shoppers and get a pregnancy test
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Dec 20, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
I try not to look at him too much, gives me strange awkward feelings that I don’t normally have towards guys
by Slava Duris #24 on Dec 20, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Bowen: and we have a stoppage in play.
Hendrick: waffles.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 20, 2010 11:19 PM EST reply actions
HAHA
Justin Pogge got ejected from a game somewhere in the oblivion of hockey.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 20, 2010 11:26 PM EST reply actions
I’m glad they threw waffles. Show up for the damn game and maybe eat some waffles for breakfast and you might win a game or two.
I lost a bet.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter
by Chris Stoikoff on Dec 20, 2010 11:53 PM EST reply actions
Gustavsson
was atrocious tonight. 2 goals on the first 3 shots? He has a combined .862 save percentage in his last 9 games, dating back to Nov 26th… a month’s worth of less than replacement level goaltending… not a viable replacement right now… sorry.
As for the rest of the team? Kessel had 5 shots, Mitchell had 4 shots, Versteeg had 4 shots… they were solid despite only registering 1 goal. The MGK line was solid as per usual. Brett Lebda was again useless, and should not be in the NHL right now.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
How long before Wilson tells Lebda to strap on the pads and tries him in nets?
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
Hopefully never
I’d like to see Reimer get a start… he can’t be much worse than Gustavsson has been recently… seriously… .862 over 9 games??? wtf?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 20, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't looked yet
but I sincerely doubt Vesa Toskala ever had a stretch of 9 consecutive games that put him at an .862 SV%
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
tonight:
goal 1 – two uncovered Thrashers in front of the end, one gets a deflection
goal 2 – uncovered Thrasher inches in front of Gustavsson, setting a complete screen. No leaf within 5 feet
goal 3 – Modin has free reign to tip shot with stick. Gunnarsson is doing nothing on the play.
goal 4 – Kulemin with bad turnover, Komisarek skates right past Stewart for some unknown reason. Stewart has time to pick his shot.
that’s four goals right there where Gus has little chance.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Wrong
he had a chance on all of them… call it bad luck if you want… NHL goalies don’t register a .722 save percentage on those shots… sorry.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
Most goalies don’t have to deal with a tip on every shot.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
they weren't all tipped...
the Stewart shot wasn’t tipped.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
…or screened.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
No one is calling it bad luck. It’s called good screening.
Atlanta’s “scoring by committee” works because all their forwards are huge, and they all spend a lot of time standing in front of the net. Our defense was not doing a good job of clearing the front of a net.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Dec 21, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
the puck was tipped maybe a foot in front of him on goal one. Enstrom rips a beautiful shot and Gus is screened by a Thrasher who is completely uncovered in front of the net. 2 goals right there with little to no chance. 3rd goal? Modin tips puck a few feet out, causing it to change direction dramatically and go under his arm. 4th goal? Gus had been playing deep in his net because the puck had been down low mere seconds before Kulemin’s turnover. He actually came out a bit to challenge the shot, but Stewart placed it right under the bar.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
You
can call every goal that beats him perfect if it makes you feel better.
Other goalies stop tips, and don’t allow 5 goals on 18 shots.. or 25 goals in a 9 game stretch where they are facing around 180 shots.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
it'd be easier to take
if it was one game in an average stretch… it’s something else when you tack it on the end of the 8 game string of sub .900 play he’s put together.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
I’m saying Gustavsson is playing great, but to sit here and blame the goaltending for everything is a joke. That’s simply not what’s actually going on out there.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
by birky on Dec 21, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nobody
is blaming it for everything… the rest of the team often doesn’t show up… they can’t score enough… but the goaltending has been brutal
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Let’s say Gustavsson wasn’t primarily responsible for the goals tonight. I think the Stewart goal was pretty weak, as was the 5th goal, but whatever. Let’s say that those two aren’t his fault either. Good goalies need to make big saves to keep their team in the game sometimes. If Gus had stopped just 2 out of those 5 goals, it would have been a 3-1 game going into the PPs in the 3rd where the Leafs came back, and it would have been a totally different game. Bottom line is NHL goalies need to be better than Gus was tonight if their teams are going to win.
by Draglikepull on Dec 21, 2010 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
sure, but his defense leaving guys alone in front on an insanely regular basis to screen or tip shots at will, isn’t helping.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
I agree that the defence was pretty lacklustre tonight, but good goalies bail their team out once in a while. That Kulemin turnover was what, the first bad turnover he’s had all year? He’s bailed the team out plenty of times, this time it was Gus’s turn to bail out Kulie.
by Draglikepull on Dec 21, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
yep, except stewart had other plans.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
Like I said below, if that’s Kessel scoring from the spot Stewart did, people would be wetting themselves over the goal. It was an excellent shot.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
If wetting yourself is cool
consider me Miles Davis.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 21, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
he's been
pulled twice in his last 6 games…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
The first Enstrom goal? Perfect shot. The Stewart goal? Also excellent placement. If Kessel had scored a goal from the slot like Stewart did, I bet every last person on this board would be saying how fantastic a shot it was. The Modin goal would have been incredibly tough for any goalie to stop, considering the height and distance it was tipped from. The first goal wasn’t great, although why are there two uncovered Thrashers in directly in front of the net at even strength?
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
I seriously don't care how great the shots were
because that excuses Gustavsson completely… like he can’t get in the way at all… Tipped shots happen all the time in the NHL… goalies stop them… they don’t all go in the net… I’m NOT going to just say “it was tipped… ho hum”.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
You have unrealistic expectations for the abilites of NHL goaltenders
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
I do?
I think an NHL goalie should stop 9 out of 10 shots… I understand a bad game once in a while… but 9 in a row? That’s a problem.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
They can stop 9 of 10 easily if they can see the puck or it isn’t tipped or the opponent doesn’t have uncovered forwards waiting for a wide open rebound put-away. Gustavsson was beat tonight on 2 tough tips, 2 excellent shots, and a somewhat soft knuckler that he should have had. I doubt any goalie in the NHL could put up decent numbers on this team
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
not all shots are created equal despite the fact they all count the same as a shot. This is why just looking at stats is not the only way to judge a game or a performance.
by Nigel Cadbury on Dec 21, 2010 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
you can call every goal against him stoppable if it makes you feel better.
(i.e., if it prevents you from having to confront your view)
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
do you even understand how goaltending works?
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
No
obviously I’m mentally retarded… please ask a more meaningful question next time.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
wrong - he had a chance on all of them… call it bad luck if you want…
please make a more insightful comment next time.
and avoid saying things like “wrong” when you disagree with someone. it makes you sound smug.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
if Gustavsson’s name was Toskala, I highly doubt tonight’s game would be looked upon that favorably.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
which is why I’m making the comparison… we seem all set to defend a guy that’s playing like one of the worst goalies in the history of butterfly goaltending… why?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
and yes I know
the team in front of him has been bad… but the numbers are ridiculously bad…. like indefensibly bad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
Why is that a problem?
And how is it any less smug than asking someone if they “understand” the topic under discussion?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
because saying something like “he had a chance on all of them” suggests that you don’t know how goaltending works. Just because he was in the net doesn’t mean he had a chance.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Or perhaps
I just disagree on whether or not a good goalie would stop the pucks you think he had no chance on. You think he’s “human” and had “no chance” while I disagree… that doesn’t make me smug…
He obviously had a “chance” to stop them… he’s a big man and he only has to block a certain space in front of the net to prevent the puck from going in… he isn’t doing that… there’s a large amount of luck involved, but you have to be good to be lucky and right now he isn’t getting “lucky” … to me that’s indicative of him being bad… for a relatively extended period.
People rip on Kessel for not scoring over a 10 game stretch, but he has a good game once in a while… I’m doing the same to gustavsson but apparently I have no “understannding” of how goaltending works?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
also
you didn’t answer my question… you didn’t explain how you’re less smug… you just tried to explain how you think I don’t understand goaltending… it’s still pretty smug of you to say it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
my response was intentionally smug because i had a specific bone to pick (with your opinion, and the way you expressed it).
yours is genuine smugness, in that you think everyone who as a different opinion from yours is, in your words, wrong
I’m just going to respond to your posts form now on with WRONG. should facilitate discussion i reckon.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
everyone?
No I said wrong once… to one point… your hypocrisy invalidates the point either way.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
wrong
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
btw
there’s never been a sincere, reasonable discussion between the two of us… so I’m not sure why you’d expect it to start now.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
i’d agree to be reasonable if i thought you’d reciprocate.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
You should be able to agree
That you’re both pretty insufferable during arguments like this.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 21, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
PS
This is in jest. I’m actually really enjoying this.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 21, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
Burtch brings out the best/worst in me.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
i’d bet $20 that if PPP wrote this, most people would agree with him.
cause he’s so darn cuddly
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
This is true
I also say hmm… respond to my own comments… say condescending things…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
but you have to be good to be lucky and right now he isn’t getting "lucky" … to me that’s indicative of him being bad…
So not getting lucky is bad? OK.
Look. Great goalies get the job done. We know this. Gustavsson isn’t doing that lately. But to put the blame on him simply because you don’t like his numbers obfuscates that fact that he hasn’t been BAD. He’s been average, or ordinary at best. But that doesn’t mean he shoulders the blame for those goals.
Furthers the point that you should stop placing so much emphasis on numbers to prove arbitrary points and actually open your eyes and watch the game once in a while.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
I did watch the game
and I think he should have stopped at least 2 of the 5 goals he allowed… as for the other 3… give or take a few inches, he could have had those also… but I’m not excusing a .722 game as “bad luck” at the NHL level.
Nobody anywhere implied it’s magical…NHL goalies have the “skill” to get in the way of the puck 9 times out of 10 with regularity against NHL shooters… Gustavsson isn’t demonstrating that with particular regularity right now… hence he’s playing like crap.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
if i get lit up by Sidney Crosby on a breakaway does that mean I"m playing like crap?
the end result is not indicative of the quality of one aspect of performance when the outcome depends on many factors.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
but
Steve’s not saying one performance. The past 9 games, his numbers have been abysmal. At some point or another, Gustavsson owns those results.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t disagree that he hasn’t been stellar lately, and that Reimer deserves a start. I take issue with using a save percentage over the last 7 games to decide that if he let in 5 goals tonight, they must have been bad goals.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
No
the goals he let in were bad because I think they were bad… the fact that it’s a 9 game stretch just illustrates he needs a break… perhaps a stint in the minors… who knows… but he isn’t playing well.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
You have heard the saying
“you have to be good to be lucky and lucky to be good” before right? That’s the point I’m arguing… saying everything is bad luck means skill is irrelevant.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
yes. but it doesn’t follow that if you are good you always have luck.
Affirming the Consequent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent
It’s a logical fallacy. You should understand how it works…you seem to be subject to these a lot.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
no you're right
if a player is good but horribly unlucky his numbers will consistently be bad… of course the chances of that are horribly low, and inevitably those players will end up outside the NHL through no fault of their own… either way if that’s the situation at hand, then eventually Gustavsson won’t last… and this point is moot.
If he ISN’T a victim of this issue, then maybe it’s a combination of skill and luck… and recently his skill isn’t compensating for his bad luck so much.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
right.
he’s not getting lucky. but that doesn’t mean he’s been horrible. his numbers may be. but numbers don’t tell the whole story.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
intangibles!
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Sometimes you block the shot, sometimes they miss the net, sometimes they score?
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
Sometimes, it rains.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Sigh
Oh, baseball.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 21, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
/sigh.
love-hate with it since last summer’s ankle breaking. just hope i can go this spring.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
Oh my goodness! It’s a natural disaster.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Need to find out what song it is that plays during that scene.
Last night, I got loaded, on a bottle of gin, on a bottle of gin…
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
don’t forget:
goal 5 – knuckler. ever seen Tim Wakefield pitch?
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
I'd like to think
He probably did
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 21, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
I couldn’t find 9 consecutive games where Toskala was below .862, but there were plenty of times where he averaged well below .862 for a stretch of 9 games or more.
A 10 game stretch last season starting December 16, Toskala put up a .841
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
I’ve never been so happy to know how terrible Toskala was
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
How pathetic is it
that we’re able to compare Gustavsson to Toskala this easily?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
so, it must be Gustavsson’s fault we’re terrible this year. After all, it was supposed to be all Toskala’s fault last season.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
No
it’s not ENTIRELY his fault… but recently? he isn’t helping.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
I never said
it’s all Gustavsson’s fault this season… so I’m not sure where that’s coming from.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
in fact
unless the season has only been 9 games long, I’m not sure wtf you’re talking about… but hey sarcasm is so far away from smug.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the reason why the Leafs have had such dreadful goaltending numbers over the past 2 years is because the team in front gives the goalies zero support?
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
I’d buy that if Toskala wasn’t currently working at a car wash in Tampere.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
doesn’t work with goalie coaches….
Or car wash owners if the gossip in Jyväskylä is to be believed.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
DING DING DING DING!!!1
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
you could say that
is possible… except goalies numbers aren’t improving drastically or getting far worse on the Leafs… Giguere’s numbers aren’t far worse than they were with Anaheim.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
you did say this though:
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
oh thank god. i was getting REALLY depressed there for a minute.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
yes .
that 10th game dipped it below…. the 11th game brought it above… and he had a shut out in the 7th of those 10 games… 9 games below a .900 SV% and an .862 SV% for the stretch… he’s been shit.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
actually
you’re including the two games in his past 9 where he came in on relief. you take those two out, and he’s .905 in his past 9.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
Opening 9 games
of last year, Toskala went .869… close but not quite as bad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
He also went
.871 from games 16 to 24… still not .862…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Have you watched his last 9 games?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Dec 21, 2010 12:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yep
all of them… except the Vancouver game… and I don’t care that the D is bad… .862 is inexcusable… tonight was NOT mainly the D’s fault.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve looked on Gustavsson a bit more kindly than Steve, but I’ve got to agree that Gus let the team down tonight. Sometimes you’ve got to make the saves to keep your team in the game and he didn’t.
by Draglikepull on Dec 21, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
I watched it in 60
I’m sorry… I dont’ think he gets a pass… NHL goalies have to bail out mistakes once in a while… if every screw up on a young team ends up in the back of the net they won’t get a chance to improve… he isn’t playing well.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Steve. Goalies can’t magically make 90% of the saves just because you want them to.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
i’ll give you that he hasn’t played great lately, but I think you’re looking for another way to excuse what seems to be a really terrible team.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Or I'm pointing out
one large aspect of that bad team… I’m not the one excusing anything… to me it looks like you’re excusing bad goaltending.
I didn’t say the D was blameless… I just said Gustavsson was bad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
wrong
you said he had a chance on all the goals tonight. why? because his SV% sucks?
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
no
I said he had a chance because his job is to stand in front of the goal with a big set of pads on and get in the way of the puck as it moves towards said net… he had a “chance” to get in the way of the puck… nobody pushed him out of the way… he was in front of the net on all the shots he faced… so how did he NOT have a chance of stopping them?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Gustavsson has been as bad as his stats say though he has definitely slipped from the Gustavsson who was the only Leaf player who showed up every night in mid November
I lost a bet.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter
by Chris Stoikoff on Dec 21, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
There's worse than your stats
and then there’s .862 over 9 games… that’s pretty ridiculously bad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
It’s bad but the Leafs have been awful defensively over that stretch as well
I lost a bet.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter
by Chris Stoikoff on Dec 21, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
5 goals on 18 shots?
18 shots??? that’s awful defensively?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
he let in wristers
from the point
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t watch tonight’s game
I lost a bet.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter
by Chris Stoikoff on Dec 21, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
seriously
he was brutal… it wasn’t even remotely decent.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
see….it’s comments like this…..
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
That do what?
Do you recall him making a good save tonight?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
Do
you recall a stretch of play where you said to yourself “omg what a great save Gustavsson just made”…?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
Usually
that happens once or twice or three times a night with MOST NHL goalies who are playing reasonably well… we don’t think about it at the time… but that’s actually the norm.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
you seem to want a goalie who’s going to steal games every night. I don’t blame you. I want the same. but just because a guy’s not Hasek every night doesn’t mean he’s bad. Or better yet, doesn’t mean he’s to blame just because the puck wen behind him.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
No
because the idea that “average” NHL goalies only stop the easy ones is misleading.
Goalies in the NHL make hard saves… that’s what gets them into the NHL and playing regularly. There’s only 30 starters in the NHL … they’re pretty elite.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
and not every night
but it would be nice if he didn’t give up 4 goals a game.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
VAN, CGY, OTT, BUF, DAL, WSH, MTL, TBL, NJD. 9 of 11 below 4 GAA.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Dec 21, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
nope
but nor did I see any of those goals and think “wow. gustavsson REALLY needed to get that. that’s not NHL-calibre goaltending”.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
Ah
see there’s the problem… when your goalie lets in 2 goals on the first 3 shots… you probably might want to think… jee he’d better not let any more in or this is going to be a long night… because he REALLY needed to get the rest of them to have an adequate night.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
when the goalies in net and sees the opposition in their own end for the first 90 seconds of the game, he’s probably thinking “geez. i hope these guys get their shit together, or i’m gonna look like shit tonight.”
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
90 seconds?
Power plays last 2 minutes if you kill them off… a goalie should be able to withstand a 90 second push.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
a game
is 60 minutes… or 3600 seconds… 90 seconds is 2.5% of the entire game.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
thanks professor.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
he did. until shortly after that.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
coughGrabovskicough
12 pts in 13 games in Nov
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
Grabovski
MVP so far this year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
FOR A SECOND ROUND PICK!?!?!
why don’t the Leafs just trade 2nd rounders for all the “dressing room cancer” guys in the league?
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
For shit's sake:
Who would be on that team?
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 21, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
ya, him, Phaneuf (in the same room! that’s worth it’s weight in gold right there…) and I think little Tits (now in NSH) would be another.
Not sure who else around the league has that rep…
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
that's how we landed
Phaneuf!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
My display shows him giving the peace sign to the rest of the Leafs as he leaves the hotel alone to play 1-on-19 hockey every night
I lost a bet.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter
by Chris Stoikoff on Dec 21, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Cherry picking the last 9 games is a little disingenuous – I mean, it is what it is, but when Giguere’s groin was first pulled, the idea (and the point) was to ride Gustavsson until he was burned out, to see what that was and what that meant, for his progression and his endurance. (I mean, I assume it wasn’t because Wilson forgot he had another goalie, or that they were afraid to play Reimer against, for example, Ottawa or Buffalo’s).
He played 5 games in 9 days (11/18-11/27), and did quite well (10 GA on 147 SA, 2 GA/gm .932 SVP), and even did well through the sixth game (TBL OTL, bringing totals to 14 GA on 186 SA, 2.33 GA/gm, .925 SVP). Then Edmonton came to town – 2 GA on 6 SA (Totals: 7 games in 16 days, 16 GA on 192 SA, 2.28 GA/gm*, .917 SVP). That’s a strong streak so far, even including the shit-the-bed game against Edmonton.
Then Giguere is back. Giguere gets the Bruins’ game.
@WSH next, so either start a new streak (4 GA on 36 SA, 4 GAA, .889 SVP) or continue his old one (20 GA on 228 SA, .912 SVP, 2.5 GAA, 8 GP in 3 weeks). Pittsburgh is the wrench in the works – a game laden with odd-man chances and superstars. His 2 game streak is (9 GA on a whopping 62 shots, .855 SVP, and 4.5 GAA), his “long” streak is (.902 SVP, 2.77 GAA). After the CGY and VAN games, his “short” streak is 3.25 GAA, .869 SVP, 99 SA in 4 GP.
Gustavsson’s record since Giguere’s first groin tweak (vs. NJD, 11/18) to the VAN game (12/18): 11 GP in 1 month, 2 days, 2.63 GAA, .900 SVP.
Without the PIT and WSH games? .913, 2.22 GAA, 229 SA in 9 GP.
TL;DR: I don’t understand why you started the marker two games after his stint as the go-to #1, but there’s no way Gus has been the problem over his last month as a #1 in TO. PIT and WSH broke his stats, and if those are the two teams we get blown out by, well, I’m not shocked.
These numbers don’t include tonight’s game, but I’m not inclined to hang him on it. He’s been playing quite well.
_*Gus’ 26 minutes played counted as a full game here. _
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Dec 21, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Since writing this, “.862 in 9 games” has come up again, so just so people don’t skip over all the numbers:
9 games is an arbitrary number, picked to get his lowest performance. It doesn’t coincide with when we lost Giggy, it doesn’t include the good games he had as our go-to #1. It does, however, include games where Gustavsson was pushing his career consecutive starts, and it does include games against the #3 and #4 teams in the league, outside of those two games – one of which was noted for its high number of odd man chances against – Gustavsson is not performing remarkably below average.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Dec 21, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
It's making me think
How many goalies generally play 9 games in a row, aside from the absolute creme de la creme (Luongo, Brodeur, etc..)
Smoke Weed Every Day.
by Archimedies on Dec 21, 2010 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
It’s frustrating, because I know that there are people who’ll ask me “How do you know the coaching wanted to push Gustavsson’s endurance?” and the only thing I can say is, “because they played him so much.” Which feels very circular. But it is well outside of Wilson’s MO, well outside of Gustavsson’s career trend, and makes sense – Reimer should be considered a very good option for a backup, so I feel like it’s gotta be deliberate when Wilson avoids him for so long.
Remember the 2-Giggy-1-Gus rotation we had earlier in the year? Gustavsson and Giguere both have 18 starts – Gustavsson has overcome that deficit just from how much he played in the last month.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
it also coincide with some of the worst efforts by the team in front of him.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
No
it’s not arbitrarily selected to get his weakest performance. 10 games ago was the last time he had a SV% over ,900… the games are consecutive, and none of them are left out. He won the game against Washington, but the basis for the discussion is the fact that he hasn’t had a .900 SV% In 9 consecutive games. His longest similar stretch last year was 4 games.
The whole point you’re making about it not including “good games where he was our #1” is absurd, because it includes ALL of his last 9 games… there’s nothing around him being our #1 mentioned at all… if you want to include the games Giguere was injured? They’re in there.
Remarkably below average is a sub .900 SV% for 9 consecutive games… that is remarkable.. .I’ve been remarking on it for the past 6 games.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
I also fail to see
why picking the point where Giguere gets injured is any less arbitrary… how does Giguere’s injury affect the expected level of play from Gustavsson? I’m sure it DOES affect it… but I don’t think it should personally.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
I think fatigue has come into play in at least some of those first 9 games, and I think fatigue was supposed to come into play (testing his endurance, mentioned it above – choosing not to rely on Reimer, pushing a prospect…obviously no stats on coaching decisions, so if anyone feels this is in error, speak up).
I’m just not worried about, for example, 1 goal on 9 shots coming in against Calgary. And I’m not going to fault him for PIT, which gave up more odd-man chances than we should be giving up against Sidney Crosby (Slava Duris mentioned five or six?)
Just as no one anointed him Hasek mk 2 when he put up .968 over 4 games, I can’t be too worried about a low series. On the whole, he’s doing well, and probably isn’t the reason this team is where it is. (2 GA against MTL, and it’s still a loss?!?)
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Holy fucking REC’ing
This guy “gets” goaltending.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 21, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Ah, but you know who has a SPCT of 1.000?
REIMER!
GOALIE OF THE FUTURE, AND THE FUTURE IS NOW!
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
not saying that at all
but .862? That’s ridiculously bad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
I know. It’s entirely my idea.
Next Cam Ward????
Maybe we got it all wrong, and the Fuhr/Potvin comparison was Giguere and Reimer, not Gustavsson!
Come on kids, I’m scrambling for something to hold on to until Boxing Day’s game.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Question to the brain trust
In the history of coach firings, how often is it in the NHL that the team publicly condemns their coach? I know Ottawa and their primma donna captain have done so, often, but I get the sense that the sort of behavior from them is the exception, and not the rule.
For example, was Therrien publicly not given a vote of confidence by the players in PIT before he got fired?
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:03 AM EST reply actions
I don't know
I can’t remember teams seemingly backing their coach so vociferously. Usually they wait until after he’s canned to start with “it’s on us, it’s our fault” routine.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
ya, it’s almost entirely based on anecdotal evidence unfortunately.
I just don’t recall a time when the team threw the coach under the bus. The difference being that, outside of Montreal, there is no media market that covers hockey like Toronto. It might just be something that goes unnoticed for the most part
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 21, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t remember if the Pens openly criticised Therrien, but there were a lot of “player-only meetings” that led up to the firing
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
Burkee boy
Waffle Burkee Boy out of the city. Burke is the cancer.
Welcome
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Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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Elabourate on your nonsensical eamvling
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 21, 2010 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
pardon?
maybe put the gin bottle down while you’re typing, hey?
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
I’d blame auto correct, but I can’t back that up. I got nothing
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 21, 2010 1:59 AM EST up reply actions
nuthin but love for ya jared.
The Belorussian buzz saw only has one setting:
HYPERDEATH!
- Certified Grabbo Lover
by Sergei Puckizin on Dec 21, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t wait for January when Burke makes his annual blockbuster trade for an overpaid d-man and lands Sheldon Souray. Within five games as a Leaf, his PPP nickname will be Syrup.
Book it.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
Gustavsson v. Toskala
Reasons the Swede gets more leeway
- He actually looks like he gives a shit when things go wrong
- Shorter track record of horrible hockey
- I liked Sweden more when I visited
- Longer track record of good goaltending for the Leafs
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
#2
Toskala’s best season with the Leafs provided a .904 save proportion. Below average but not ungodly awful. Unfortunately he spiralled even further downward over the next two seasons.
Gustavsson is still at .901-.902. We’re just optimistic that he’ll get better instead of worse. My opinion was that Wilson wore him down the last time Giguere was out by playing him every single game – he started great but ended poor, and that’s where most of Burtch’s nine games come from. Hopefully this time the Leafs will let Reimer start once or twice.
It doesn’t help that, from a save percentage standpoint, Giguere is currently on pace for the worst season of his career.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Dec 21, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
he’s also still developing. though I am starting to think he may not peak as a true #1.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 21, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
longer track record?
#4?
gustavsson: 59 games, 20-24-11 record, .902 SV%
Toskala’s first 59 games: 29-22-6, .906 SV%
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
I hope Gus doesn’t turn out like….Telqvist….
by theninjagreg on Dec 21, 2010 1:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
toskalas first 59 as a leaf were also part of a much superior leaf team
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 21, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Better offence in front of him at the least. Those teams did not have the problem scoring that the Leafs have this season.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 21, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Mats Sundin
I lost a bet.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter
by Chris Stoikoff on Dec 21, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Sundin>2010-2011 Toronto Maple Leafs
I'm thinking that when the Leafs win the Cup, I'll lose my drinking problem.
by leafsfan4life94 on Dec 21, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Okay
Coming from a goalies perspective, we learn to stop the hardest possible shots. (i.e., where shots are tipped and screened) I don’t care the quality of shots on me, I still expect me to stop 9 of 10, unless they are breakways or something, let’s not get crazy here. I’m in no way saying I should be in the NHL, but he has to stop a couple of those. It might just be me but I’ve noticed recently the leafs goalies are always caught way too deep in their nets. The closer you are to a tip the better chance you have of stopping it. Obviously, I feel he should be out further on the 1st goal. Although the 2nd was a beauty screen, goalies are taught ways to look around those… and at that point in the game you have to come up with that save. 3rd goal was an insane tip and the only goal I think he really had no chance on, that’s a tough one. The 4th goal is a nice shot and from the slot but it is still stoppable, look how many shots like that are stopped every night. And we all know about the 5th goal.
I’m sorry for the rant, I just miss Cujo.
Thanks
for the support to my point
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
drunk or otherwise
Anyway… I’m out – it’s late… and I’m all outta smug.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 21, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
I’m no goalie but isn’t playing too deeply in your net a sign of a lack of confidence? If so, why are Leaf goalies lacking confidence lately, because of their own abilities or the team playing in front of them?
by Robert James on Dec 21, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Being a Maple Leafs goalie
Is probably one of the leading causes for alcoholism in Canada.
Smoke Weed Every Day.
The threat of becoming a Maple Leafs goalie probably is the overall lead.
by Robert James on Dec 21, 2010 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
Definitely. Personally, I’ve always noticed it with Giguere, but with him I think it is more of a lack of quickness with his lateral movement. One thing I hate about Gus’ game is the way he moved laterally and opens his five hole instead of staying tight in a butterfly slide (see the 3rd goal, i think vs vancouver)
Said once, I'll say it again
If ANYONE aside from Grabovski is representing this team at the All-Star Game, it will be a complete and utter travesty.
He’s pretty much the only one who shows up to play every single game.
Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 21, 2010 5:20 AM EST reply actions
Well, you would have to throw in Schenn too.
by Robert James on Dec 21, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Even Schenn hasn’t played that well lately, though if we’re going by the rest of the year I’d agree
I lost a bet.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter
by Chris Stoikoff on Dec 21, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Positives
Grabbo is just ridicalus.
James Reimer has been lights out for all 4 shots he faced.
John Mitchell? For serious?
Negatives
Gus wtf bro
20 miles to Legoland!
Last Night...
I went to a Leaf game in which waffles were thrown onto the ice and Freddy Modin scored twice.
WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME???!?!?!!!11`1
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