Why Wilson is to Blame (Not Gustavsson)
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Editor's Note: This is an interesting FanPost by Van Ryn's Neurologist. By the time you are done reading it your brain might have melted. Basically, Ron Wilson might need to start updating his resume.
Mired in yet another mini-funk, there's been a lot of negativity floating around the Barilkosphere in the last 24 hours. Much of this has been directed towards Jonas Gustavsson. Specifically, there's been some suggestion that goaltending has been a bigger issue than other aspects of the Leaf's performance (defense, scoring, coaching,etc).
Now, while I admit that The Monster's performance has been more diminutive of late, as a former goalie, it upsets me to see him slandered when, to my eyes, there are much bigger problems to deal with.
So, I decided to look at some numbers. Now some of this gets a little complicated, so for those of you who aren't numerically inclined I apologize. Editor's Note: This is an understatement. Even if you are kind of numerically inclined this is going to get complicated. I think. I couldn't really figure it out.
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5-on-5 Goals For/Against |
Power Play % |
Penalty Kill |
Shots For/Game |
Shots Against/Game |
Save % |
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Correlation with Wins: |
.83 |
.42 |
.43 |
.52 |
-.56 |
.4 |
|
Variance explained: |
69% |
18% |
18% |
27% |
31% |
16% |
Essentially, I wanted to look at the relationship between a number of measures of performance (Goals For/Goals Against; PP %; PK%; Shots/Game; Shots Against/Game; SV%), and success (wins). So, to start with, I calculated the correlation between these measures and regular season wins obtained from the 2009-2010 season. I've also provided the % of variance explained by each of these stats. Variance explained is the most useful for interpreting a correlation, and also for remembering that correlations are not causal. That is, if a given variable is correlated with another, you can predict the variance in one domain simply by looking at the values in the other. In this case, I want to know what factors can predict success (wins), and how much variance in wins can be predicted by each of these variables.
The results are interesting, though not entirely surprising. Overall, the strongest correlation is found in the 5-on-5 Goals For/Goals Against, explaining a whopping 69% of the variance in wins. I believe this is similar to the Pythagorean expectation that others have mentioned before. It's also painfully simple. If we score a lot more than we get scored on, we're going to win lots of games. End of story.
The more important question is, what affects our ability to score goals, as well as have goals scored against us, that ultimately results in wins?
Somewhat surprisingly, PP% and PK% aren't correlated that strongly with the number of wins a team has. Essentially, the old adage that "special teams wins games" is wrong. Each of these things accounts for less than 20% of the variance in wins. Possibly, these weak correlations indicate that one of these things alone can't make or break your team. Chances are, if you are good at either PP or PK, you can get by, so long as you score more goals 5-on-5 than get scored on. If you are horrible at both, chances are you're going to have a difficult time getting wins (essentially, this is what the Leafs have been for the last 3 years: horrible at both). Interesting, PK may have greater importance than the PP, since if you account for both the 5-on-5 goals for/against, AND the PK, you can predict wins even better than with just the 5-on-5 for/against.
Interestingly, shots for and shots against are both pretty good predictors, accounting for about 27-31% of the variance in wins. Thus, the Jason Blake method might have some advantages, so long as you can limit the chances in your own end. Actually, I think this amounts to the Babcock Effect: if you always have control of the puck, you'll get a lot of chances to score, and you'll limit the chances against on your less-than-stellar goalie.
What about save %? If your goalie is horrible, shouldn't this lead to more losses? On the contrary, good sir! Of all the stats I looked at, SV% had the lowest correlation with wins, explaining about 16% of variance.
Now I hear you saying "If your goalie is great, your 5-on-5 goals for/against should be higher. So shouldn't this affect wins indirectly?" In fact, even accounting for SV%, 5-on-5 goals for/against still accounts for about 64% of the variance in wins (.8 correlation). Thus, because a SV% can't translate into goals, SV% has a much smaller effect on wins than many of these other variables.
So what does any of this have to do with Wilson? Well, in my mind, virtually all of the variables in that table, except perhaps SV%, can be affected by coaching. Skill certainly plays a part. But coaches need to find ways to get guys to score goals 5-on-5, generate chances, kill penalties, score PP goals, and keep the pressure off their goalie. This will be easier for some coaches than others, since some teams are more skilled than others.
However, to simply blame goaltending on our pitiful performance of late overlooks the fact that there are many other more important aspects to the Leafs play that are a much bigger concern than goaltending (like being last in PK and not scoring goals). Because these aspects have a greater effect on whether we win a game or not, I'd say Gustavsson is not our biggest concern.
So lay off The Monster.
PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.
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This is nice to look at
but to take the argument you yourself mentioned even further…
Now I hear you saying “If your goalie is great, your 5-on-5 goals for/against should be higher. So shouldn’t this affect wins indirectly?” In fact, even accounting for SV%, 5-on-5 goals for/against still accounts for about 64% of the variance in wins (.8 correlation). Thus, because a SV% can’t translate into goals, SV% has a much smaller effect on wins than many of these other variables.
You aren’t explaining how you “account for save %”… did you compare teams with identical save percentages?
You’re examining the correlations of random statistics to wins and losses, but some of the stats directly relate to each other. SV% should be unrelated to goals for at 5v5, but it certainly relates to goals against. SV% also will relate to shots against… which will relate to goals against.
I also find it interesting that you claim a coach can control the goals for and goals against ratio at even strength, but NOT the save percentage. How pray tell does the coach control that? How does the coach control anything on the ice? Systems argument on special teams I guess makes sense… except you’re talking about 5v5, not special teams.
Also – you’re comparing SV% during all possible situations… why not compare ES SV%? PP SV%? SH SV%? you’re separating out the numbers for the other situations, but not the goalie. I just think you could explain your methodology of control… how are you holding SV% stable while playing with other factors in just one season’s worth of data?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
when i’m accounting for save % i’m doing a partial correlation:
Partial correlation is the relationship between two variables while controlling for a third variable. The purpose is to find the unique variance between two variables while eliminating the variance from a third variables. – Not Wikipedia
Thus, this basically eliminates the effect of SV% on 5-on-5 goals for/against.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 22, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
if i had the time i would do a full factor analysis of every stat ever recorded. but i’m lazy like that.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 22, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
How are you controlling for the 3rd variable?
or all of the others you mentioned.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 22, 2010 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
controlling for/accounting for using partial correlation. it’s a statistics thingy….
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 22, 2010 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
no I get that
my point is…you’re controlling them piecemeal using partial correlations… controlling a 3rd variable while looking at the other 2 piece by piece… Unless you’re using more complicated formulas than I remember from school, I’m not sure how you’re controlling for everything you’ve listed in order to analyse the relationship with wins.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 22, 2010 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
He’s using save % that cuts across all 3 of 5/5 PP and PK save percents. He may get some additional power by dividing them up, but given the sample sizes involved I doubt it.
VNR’s method of using partial correlations is actually generally speaking better than looking at a series of cross tabs like we normally do here, because it allows for all of the information to be used at one time for maximum power, rather than doing a series of small analyses, each using group difference tests between small samples of individual scores. This is a nice first step in moving towards a more statistically powerful way to crunch the data.
You're doing this by
controlling for each of them one at a time… but not controlling for all of them at once in order to isolate the single relationships you’re exploring.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 22, 2010 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
well, i also did do a linear regression, entering in all the variables using the stepwise method, starting with 5-on-5 goals for/against. only 5-on-5 for/against and PK were significant values in the model. everything else didn’t matter if those two were included.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 22, 2010 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
If this is the case
then the numbers you’ve got in your post that show PP and PK correlating virtually equally, with the same proportion of variance explained doesn’t make a lot of sense.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 22, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a little counter-intuitive, but probably what you’re getting here is a fair amount of colinearity between the PK and the PP leading to a suppressor effect. in English, PP and PK are probably moderately highly correlated with each other, so if you put either one into the regression it’ll reduce the apparent effect of the other one as the explained variance is divided up between the two of them. PK has a slight edge in importance, so the model likes to pick this one as the variable to include, and once you have it in, PP doesn’t add a whole lot more.
“I also find it interesting that you claim a coach can control the goals for and goals against ratio at even strength, but NOT the save percentage. How pray tell does the coach control that? How does the coach control anything on the ice? Systems argument on special teams I guess makes sense… except you’re talking about 5v5, not special teams.”
Well said. I do enjoy the work at PPP, but many times, I look at the data and look at the conclusion, and my conclusion is the conclusion is less about the data than the writer’s preconceived biases. SkinnyFish prefers the draft therefore the conclusion is that Brian Burke is building the WRONG way. VRN doesn’t like Ron Wilson, therefore the conclusion is that Wilson is to blame. I understand the need to write things strongly in order to get attention, but I do think that it undermines the rest of the work.
Just my 0.02.
Anyways, Gus has not played well in recent weeks, but it’s the complete lack of ANY offense from the third and fourth lines and the defense (only 6 goals?) that has killed us overall. I’m inclined to think the defense thing is on Wilson, but I’m not sure our third/fourth liners are skilled enough to give us the 5-10 goals each that would make a huge difference. That’s on Burke. But, it’s a young team and a work in progress.
Fair point
It’s important to speak up in that case like you are now.
I disagree that it undermines the conclusions. Like you noted, you know the writers’ feelings so you can take that into account when you’re reading the post. And it also isn’t an indicator that they are wrong.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I am the first to admit my bias.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 22, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
It might be interesting to see which of these attributes changes most when a team makes a coaching change mid-season that causes them to greatly improve their record.
Mike Weber: Free to roam the ice and take stupid boarding penalties once more.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
generally
in season coaching changes result in improved performance as a result of changes in luck.
Coaches get fired when teams underperform expectations. If a team is expected to perform to a certain level and everyone underperforms on the basis of luck, then the coach looks bad. Then a new guy comes in and rides the shift back in the direction of expectations to the end of the year, and observes an improvement in results.
Overall though, they aren’t doing much to change anything (generally speaking).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 22, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
If you're admitting bias
then you should be working to control for that in any sort of analysis also… acknowledgement doesn’t equate to control though.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 22, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
The bias here comes not from the interpretation of the numbers. They say what they say about what correlates most with wins, but they say nothing about how you increase your 5vs5 scoring, or how you change your save %. That’s the part where the writers’ assumptions come in.
It also
comes into play in which numbers are selected. The idea that Wilson is responsible for bad PK and bad PP is why they’re involved. The idea that Gustavsson and Giguere’s SV% are low is a problem (that needs to be countered) is the reason that is involved. The 5v5 GF/GA ratio is involved as some sort of neutral statement I geuss?
Either way, I find it strange to include 3 stats the goalie has no responsibility for, 3 he’s partially responsible for, and then single out one of the latter. Obviously shots for and against are more important than SV%, but the Leafs are actually good at both of these… so that isn’t likely to be the problem. We suck at SV%, and we suck on the PK (and Gustavsson’s SV% on the PK might have something to do with this), and those two things likely have more to do with the Leafs crappy record than many other things.
Arguing that the coach’s system is the reason the PK is so bad, and not the atrocious SV% of the goalie on the PK seems a bit biased to me. If we’re using SV% in all situations, rather than ES SV%, or PK SV%, or PP SV%, then I guess I just think there’s some thinking that needs to be done on the comparison.
Also, I find using “wins” to determine the correlate not entirely beyond reproach. Wins in regulation would be a better data set to use if we’re worried about repeatability in the future.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 22, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
i selected the numbers i did because
1) they’re simple
2) they were accessible
3) they probably have some obvious relationship with success
4) I’m lazy, so didn’t wan’t to search for hours for every possible stat.
I think the ones I selected encompass most aspects of a game pretty well…
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 23, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
i also looked at Faceoff percent, the effect of which was almost as strong as SV percentage.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 23, 2010 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
also, in stats its common to only partial out variance for your strongest correlation (you want to know wheter there are important intervening variables on your most important effect).
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 23, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
I think it does undermine the overall work when the conclusions don’t seem to flow from the data. It makes me think that it didn’t really matter what the data said. If the data sorta kinda implies the conclusion, he was gonna run with it. Also, when the conclusion seems far stronger than the data, it makes me wonder about the writer’s ability to interpret the data. Even IF I agreed with the conclusion or with the gist of an article, sloppy analysis does it no favours.
Again, just my .02 cents.
agreed
so that’s 4¢
i don’t begrudge VRN for writing the analysis, and in fact, he might very well be right. There are still a lot of questions unanswered in this thread though (how many teams, how long a period of time reviewed etc) for me to comfortably say I agree.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 22, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
VRN is here to answer any questions you have about the validity of the information presented.
I think a good place to start is with ninjagreg’s questions.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Travelling
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
the numbers don’t lie though. I has assumed that PP and PK% would be more important than they seem to be, but that wasn’t borne out in the data.
if SV% was correlated .9 with wins, obviously I couldn’t make the conclusions I did.
the part where my bias is evident I think is in my assumption that coaching has an effect on the things that are important (5-on-5 goals for/against, for example). whether that’s true or not is up for debate.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 23, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
Actually, I took the numbers at face value. That save percentage doesn’t correlate with wins very much compared to other factors. The jump in logic is in the headline. That’s not to say that coaching doesn’t have an effect on those things, but you don’t demonstrate it’s Wilson’s fault. You just say so.
consider it an editorial rather than a news article/research report. i love reading National Post editorials because i often disagree with their conclusions, but still learn something along the way.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 23, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
And it also isn’t an indicator that they are wrong.
But I think when any of us that disagree, if I ever use or imply that the writer of a comment or post is wrong, I mean – like many of us that use that word, imply that we disagree – and in most cases strongly so. Options can’t really be wrong, only something you can either get behind or not. Firing Wilson or putting the blame solely on Wilson is something that I completely disagree with for now.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Things the coach can control:
1. Who dresses
2. Who plays when (i.e. line changes, matching lines, etc.)
3. System on 5-5, PK, PP
4. Face-off centres (to some extent)
5. Goalie
6. Motivation of the players, either positive or using fear.
What the coach can’t control: The other team.
So I would tend to agree with VNN (I didn’t know he had a bias, so I just looked at the numbers and thought of the above points).
right. my assumption is that a coach can affect all these things, and my bias is that our particular coach is not doing a very good job at it.
the numbers themselves aren’t biased.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 23, 2010 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
As for goalie skill
I’ll just sum up a posting Gabe had at behindthenet.ca back in september of this year:
…the takeaway here is that if you want to estimate a goaltender’s true talent, you may as well just look at his even-strength road save percentage.
Gustavsson’s ES SV% over his 59 NHL games is a less than stellar .911… how much less than stellar? Well in the article I’m referencing here, the NHL average for ES SV% on the road over 3 seasons of play amongst goalies with over 250 saves in a season is around .942…
Leighton’s ES SV% for the last 3 years is around .917… and he’s considered replacement level.
Gustavsson really hasn’t been good… and I’m not blaming him for “everything” in Leaf land right now, I’m just going to continue to point out that he’s been worse than a replacement level goalie should be in the NHL.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
he’s clearly not been lights out. we may have already seen the best he has to offer. or we may not have. not sure.
wilson, on the other hand, isn’t making our records better. he’s made them worse.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 22, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
ok well
just looking at his Road ES SV% so far in the NHL? And I’m doing this by hand right now…
His ES SV% on the road so far this year is .920. It’s not particularly high, but it’s not atrocious either. His last game was by far his worst.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 22, 2010 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
When you include last season
his ES SV% on the Road is .910.. so obviously he’s been quite a bit better so far this year, but he’s still not performing wonderfully.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 22, 2010 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
Right, but that’s if you want to tell how good a goalie is. This post says that how good your goalie is matters, but not as much as your overall goals in / goals out at even strength (which really makes sense, this is, after all, a goal scoring competition).
Of course, looking at the goalie’s influence we may just be seeing a range restriction. To illustrate, if you want to know how much height matters to basketball players, if you have a league that has players ranging from 4 feet tall to 7 feet tall, you would find that height matters a lot. The 7 footers will just dominate the 4 footers, and so height will explain an enormous percent of the difference in output between players. But if the exact same league only had players that ranged from 6’6 to 6’65, then you would find that the extra half inch difference in height makes almost no difference to performance, and height would barely correlate with output at all.
In this league we only have room for maybe 50 goalies to play regular minutes, which means that you’ve probably got about the 50 best goalies in the world. Goalie is turning into a very technical position in which the required movements and puck tracking skills are becoming far more routine and tightly coached, so I would imagine it’s starting to become like skiing where talent can give you only a very small edge. The best skiers in the world routinely beat the other elite-but-not-quite-best skiers, but only by a few hundredths of a second. If you made up teams of downhill skiers with marathon runners, where each did their event and then you added up the times, the marathon runners skill would explain basically all of the variance, because they finish several minutes apart, so the best marathon guy paired with the worst skier will beat the best skier paired with the worst marathon guy every single time. A really good skier would add such a tiny amount less time to the marathon runner’s time as to make almost no difference.
So it might be the same for goalies.. you can find differences between them if you look hard enough, but those differences at the top end elite level are small enough that they don’t make as much difference as you’d think to the outcome of games (not zero difference, just not AS MUCH as you’d think).
This makes sense
it of course begs the question on the comparable talent levels of all the goalies involved… but I’ll surrender the point.
On the horizon of course would be the question around what IS responsible for the variance in play we’re observing… is experience a better indicator? Why have none of us actually done a study on this … maybe I should do so. If the key factor is how many games of NHL experience your team averages then maybe we could all relax and just assume if the team keeps playing at the NHL level, they’ll get better eventually.
Something tells me that wouldn’t be the only issue… but the more we examine these problems the more we run into this type of issue. If talent doesn’t matter amongst the best in the world, then I’m not sure if anything matters other than luck… in which case, why worry about any of this at all?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 22, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
range restriction may be a really important issue here. it’s possible that in order to get wins you need SV% above some threshold, which we may or may not be at.
i will try to post some scatter plots later if people are interested.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 23, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but...
Math isn’t my strong point, but I think your choice of data might be skewing your conclusions here. The pitiful impact of save percentage on wins seems to suggest that overall a goalie’s performance (or lack thereof) has little to do with a team’s success. However, I think you might see a netminder as a larger factor if you were to correlate goals-against-average with wins.
Incidentally I have no complaints about Gustavsson.
Lies. All lies.
FWIW, the correlation between SV% and wins IS significant; better goalies do make for more wins. It’s just that other things seem to matter a lot more.
Most people would agree that GAA isn’t really an individual stat…it’s more similar to the 5-on-5 goals for/against
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 22, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
Having established that ES GF/GA is the dominant predictor for wins (as you admit, even the statistics show that hockey always turns into a goal scoring competition), you might be better served by looking for predictors of ES GF/GA . ES SF/SA will be one predictor, but it should be independent of both ES SV% and ES Shooting%. You could do either a piecewise linear regression or a multiple regression to see how important goaltending is here.
SV% still may not show up as a major influence; the variance league-wide is quite small these days. However, it’s worth noting in that respect that even with a low correlation an outlying value could have a larger influence. The Leafs were last in team SV% last year by quite a lot (more than two standard deviations below the mean) and so far this year the number is the same (.892, although the team ranking is higher).
It’s similar with special teams, as you noted. PP% and PK% may not correlate very strongly with GF/GA, but when a team is last at both it adds up to a big difference.
I've been looking at the sky
this is what the Leafs have been for the last 3 years: horrible at both
Well, the PP was horrible for one year, but has been middle-of-the-pack for this year so far, as it was two years ago.
‘10-’11: 18th
‘09-’10: 30th
‘08-’09: 16th
The PK has been the biggest spot on Wilson’s record.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
you’re right. but PK seems to matter more. Plus, if our PP is only average, a bad PK isn’t doing us any favors.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 22, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
Now, while I admit that The Monster’s performance has been more diminutive of late, as a former goalie, it upsets me to see him slandered when, to my eyes, there are much bigger problems to deal with.
aw shucks, me too.
BS
I agree completely with this..being a goalie myself....
I'm thinking that when the Leafs win the Cup, I'll lose my drinking problem.
by leafsfan4life94 on Dec 22, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
I think goalie’s are lazy wasters because I’m a scoring winger.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I think scoring wingers are cherry picking loafers, because I’m a goalie.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 23, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
I think Scoring wingers and goalies are all lazy wasting loafers, but thats because I’m a two way power forward who can play all forward positions and D on the PK
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 23, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
pfft
You’re a dime a dozen.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Confirmed.
By the time you are done reading it your brain might have melted.
Burke is the type of guy who will take a big shit on the floor right in front of you and then tell you straight faced that it wasn’t him. -Skinnyfish 12/3/10
by Future_considerations on Dec 22, 2010 9:13 AM EST reply actions
sorry guys. if there’s something that needs clarification let me know. i wrote this really quickly last night, and I was really tired….
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 22, 2010 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
I liked it.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Actually, I think this amounts to the Babcock Effect: if you always have control of the puck, you’ll get a lot of chances to score, and you’ll limit the chances against on your less-than-stellar goalie.
Couldn’t agree more…
Is their anywhere that tracks puck possession?
BS
I thought Slava did this for the most recent game. As far as I know corsi/fenwick is generally considered the best proxy.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Dec 22, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Nowhere
Corsi is the proxy used for it.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Cool and thanks
And wow, you guys literally answered at the same time.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 22, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Did you remember to show your work?
Did you look at all teams, or just the leafs? All years? Last year? This year?
This is a very interesting post but I’d like to see the spreadsheet / data from which you draw your conclusions.
Can you post a google docs link or the spreadsheet with your formulas? Otherwise I don’t think there’s enough data in your post for me to reach a conclusion.
by theninjagreg on Dec 22, 2010 11:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I looked at just last year (2009-2010) comparing the number of wins for all 30 teams, with the stats in the various categories. so the correlations are defined by relative success across the league over a season, not by the effects of these stats on a particular team or for a particular game.
I stats I got all from NHL.com, but the correlations were calculated in SPSS, so there’s no spreadsheet.
I don’t know what else you need to be convinced (assuming you believe I didn’t just make up the numbers). If there’s something else I can explain about multiple correlation I can try. Presumably I could also do this for multiple seasons, but again, I’m lazy….
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 23, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
1 season
is a pretty limited sample. If you included all seasons post lockout, that might be more convincing for starters.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Dec 23, 2010 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
i’m traveling today, but will add more details later….
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 22, 2010 2:46 PM EST reply actions
What I took from it
Goalies save percentage has a minimal impact on wins and loses.
Noting correlates better with wins and loses than GF/GA
BS
that’s pretty much it. you can extrapolate what that means for yourself.
Fire Ron Wilson!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 23, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I especially enjoyed this part though
However, to simply blame goaltending on our pitiful performance of late overlooks the fact that there are many other more important aspects to the Leafs play that are a much bigger concern than goaltending (like being last in PK and not scoring goals). Because these aspects have a greater effect on whether we win a game or not, I’d say Gustavsson is not our biggest concern.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 23, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions

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