18. Looked back at a piece I did on Ron Wilson when he first got the job in Toronto. He said he never talked to players after games because he knew he'd be too tough. Fits with some of his harshest public comments. However, one player did tell me the strangest thing about all of this is Wilson is much more supportive in private.
19. For example, as the team's struggles got worse, there were at least two occasions where the coach put together encouraging videos. One showed all the things they'd done right early in the season, the other was of hard goals they'd scored, to illustrate the types of plays they needed to make.
From Elliotte Friedman's must-read 30 Thoughts. This isn't the first article noting that the players aren't unhappy with Wilson. Seems like Wilson's behaviour is much more of an issue for fans and the media. Or the players are good liars.
over 1 year ago
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sorry, he still needs to go
Burke is the type of guy who will take a big shit on the floor right in front of you and then tell you straight faced that it wasn’t him. -Skinnyfish 12/3/10
by Future_considerations on Dec 6, 2010 2:28 PM EST reply actions
sorry, he still needs to go
That kind of thinking needs to go. :)
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Burke
is generally against changing coaches mid-season… I don’t see how that will shift this time around.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I think Wilson’s behaviour is far more of an issue in the media than anywhere else.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 6, 2010 2:29 PM EST reply actions
nice avatar change
Burke is the type of guy who will take a big shit on the floor right in front of you and then tell you straight faced that it wasn’t him. -Skinnyfish 12/3/10
by Future_considerations on Dec 6, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
ITS BECAUSE SHE HATES MONDAYS!
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 6, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve never cared about his behaviour or “supportiveness”, I just think he has failed at special teams and the team has shown an alarming tendency to quit on him starting with the Florida trip.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO IF NOBODY HATES RON WILSON, HUH PPP?
I’M A LEAFS FAN AND IT’S MY RIGHT TO BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT WHATEVER I SEE FIT.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 6, 2010 2:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
THERE YOU GO AGAIN TURNING EVERYTHING INTO A NEGATIVE ARGUMENT
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 6, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Can’t we all just get along?
…apparently not.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 6, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry for the double reply – my original showed up as a blank for some reason. Holding out hope for a “delete” button for these occasional hiccups at PPP.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
That’s been happening a lot. If it shows up blank, it really isn’t. Just refresh the page and it’ll be there. Pain in the ass sometimes.
Certified Grabbo Lover
That’s been happening a lot. If it shows up blank, it really isn’t. Just refresh the page and it’ll be there
Thanks for the advice.
Pain in the ass sometimes.
There was no need to get personal.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
no need getting all butt hurt about it
(also, thatsthejoke.jpg)
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 6, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
i sure am. what’s your excuse?
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 6, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
your double post is just proof of your pro-Leafs agenda ways.
When I grow up, I want to be just like Godd Till
by blurr1974 on Dec 6, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Wilson
It’s sad..because I do think that he is the coach to take this team through the next few years, but he is being fired by the media even before he is being fired by the GM. Do people honestly believe this team is going to turn it around in a few months…? (Yes I know this is the 6th yr we will not make the playoffs, but the blow up of the personnel only started last January)
Look at how long it took for Chicago to rebuild through youth before they won the cup.
hahaha
Guy does 30 thoughts. I’ll give him a pass when he needs to stretch them out.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Dec 6, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think he needs to take a good hard look at what’s important to him. He’s doing himself a disservice with this ‘splitting’ up of single thoughts, why not just be honest with yourself and call it 22 thoughts? I’d have a lot more respect for him and his column without all this funny math he’s doing.
/unnecessary sarcasm
There will be an answer. Let it be.
Quite frankly I’m disgusted by it. And until he gets those thoughts in order, I’ll refuse to read such garbage.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
I always think this when he stretches a thought across two or three thoughts haha
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 6, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
I think he’s trying to troll Leaf haters
(“Multiple Laffs thoughts??!!!1 FRIEDMAN SUCKZZZZ”)
by potvin vs hextall on Dec 6, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
I got a Leafs Breaking News email a few hours ago that says Reimer has been called up today, but can’t find anything else?
Apparently Giggy tweaked his groin being awesome on Saturday.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 6, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Just to repeat
Giguere has the worst GVT on the team.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Goalies tend to be impacted the most by GVT though… best and worst goalies dominate the top and bottom of the GVT chart.
I’m kinda shocked Gus isn’t lower based on all the losses that mounted when he was playing.
20 miles to Legoland!
GVT numbers
are far more impacted by SV% and GAA than Wins and Losses.
He can’t contribute offense, so the lack of offense won’t impact him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Bottom line: Giguere won the game.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 6, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
No
the post, Phil Kessel, and Nazem Kadri did… Tim Thomas outplayed Giguere by a mile.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Ironically
goalies cannot win games… they can just not lose them.
They don’t score goals, which are required to “win” games.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
or Chris Osgoode
or Chris Terreri, or Martin Brodeur… but generally speaking you understand my point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Or Giguere. He didn’t get that Conn Smythe for his looks.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Again... ironic
he didn’t get it for winning.
Hextall and Giguere are the only two goalies to win the Conn Smythe on a losing team from the Stanley Cup Finals.
weird that you should add that to this thread… losing = success?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
He didn’t get it for losing, at all. He got it for being a bright spot on the team despite losing. That he was – above and beyond all other players – the largest individual reason that his team was in the Stanley Cup Finals. In essence, it was the voting committee saying that he was winning games for the team.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I didn't say he got it for losing
I said he didn’t get it for winning… which is unique amongst Conn Smythe trophy winners… and sort of proves the OTHER side of the argument – yanno the one I’m on?
He didn’t WIN the Stanley Cup… he just DIDN’T LOSE IT… his teammates were more responsible for him not winning it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I get it. It’s an issue of semantics, as it so often seems to be. Yes, you’re right – Giguere did not get a game winning goal in a game, therefore he did not win it.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I guess it's semantics
but I think it’s pretty clear that goalies cannot do much that actually wins a game. They do score the occasional goal, but usually they’re considered to be specialists on th defensive side of things.
Defense might win championships, or even games… it’s certainly a requirement for a good team… but if you don’t score any goals, you don’t win many games.
Either way, Giguere wasn’t particularly spectacular the other night. He made 1 save in the shootout, and the Leafs won the shootout 2-1… he did his job, and he was credited with a win… I just don’t see how he was any more responsible for it than anyone else on the team.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I just think it’s typically acceptable to refer to the guy who has the best performance as “winning” the game, regardless of position. I mean, had the Bruins gotten the W on Saturday, we all would’ve agreed that Tim Thomas was the driving force that earned them 2 points in the standings, which is to say that – much more than any other individual – his play stopped the Leafs from doing better than the Bruins. As the driving force behind the win, it seems it would be fair to say that “he won” for the Bruins. Even though he didn’t have a GWG.
I do agree, though, that no matter how you slice it, Giguere was not the most significant reason the Leafs won on Saturday.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
I hit the post once as a kid. I was pissed.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I assume you were playing
goalie? Otherwise I hope you have scored since.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I hit the post once a game usually, so often that i had the nick name “Ding” for two full seasons
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 6, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Gustavsson is better than Giguere. No doubt in my mind. Whether the team rewards him for it on a given night is totally up the air.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
There is
doubt in my mind. As I’ve stated in previous comments on here, Gustavsson’s only had a SV% above .900 in 7 of the 13 games he’s played in. That’s less than half.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Also
he has allowed 5 goals out of the last 10 or so shots he faced.
Not a good result.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
That isn’t less than half, but yeah I see what you mean. To me Gustavsson looks better from game to game. Both are decent and a big upgrade from the past. Either way, goaltending is not a problem on this club I don’t think.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
Sorry
wow… math is bad after a long day of… math. 7/13 > 0.5!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
It's definitely
not the MAIN problem. It still isn’t solved by any means… we don’t have elite level goaltending at this point.
Scoring is definitely the main issue, then special teams… then probably the team D and goaltending are last.
Speaking of Team D… anyone else notice that the Leafs rank last in the NHL in blocked shots on the road, and in takeaways?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
right now the leafs goaltending is “good enough”
good enough so that when everyone shows up to play and the team can put a few pucks in the net, they have a good chance at winning most games, but not so good that they will win a whole lot of 2-1 or 1-0 games
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 6, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
our goalies aren’t stealing games good at this point.
Hopefully at some point they will be?
We haven’t exactly been recording a lot of shut outs this year either.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
…7 of the 13 games he’s played in. That’s less than half
You and your advanced stats – I’d have sworn 7 is more than half of 13.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
NEW MATH!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 6, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
It’s in the FTB.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Dec 6, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
In the FTB
…
reading that sort of reminds me when I used to argue with my dad growing up and he’d tell me he read something in the Wall Street Journal…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I’ve never really blatantly said the Leafs need to fire Wilson (because I’m not sure they need to – I just don’t know), but I can still see why people did, and still do.
I think a lot of “Fire Ron Wilson” comments are “Please, someone do something to stop all this losing”
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
A lot will depend on whether or not the Leafs can go on a run. Unfortunately for Wilson, it’s gotten to the point in the media where there’s now a game-by-game, week-by-week deathwatch on the guy. Just in time for Christmas.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 6, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
There’s a lot of that probably but for me it started with birky saying with our personnel we needed to playing the trap, not an aggressive forecheck. I think he’s right. And then I looked at our special teams numbers since Wilson’s arrival.
It’s not all knee-jerkery.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Dec 6, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
No I don’t think it is either. You’re right. There are things that stack up against Wilson as well as the above from Friedman that’s sorta pro-Wilson. So I can see how someone could build an argument against him, as well as come to his defense.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
Burke’s teams never play the trap – not gonna happen.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Wilson's teams
also don’t play the trap…
this is a lose lose.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
If anything, the comment I posted above is just a bit of a warning before people start with the “I told YOU ALL RON SHOULDN’T BE FIRED! I SEE IT AND YOU DON’T” kinda crap.
Wilson could be fired tomorrow for all we know.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
We know Burke and Wilson want to play an aggressive forecheck, now and in the future. This team is really built to trap. If Burke can’t get the type of guys to fit the system he wants, is Ron Wilson really a fit for the future?
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
The
forward corps is built to trap… the rest of the team is built to withstand the pressure of some end to end action.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
To be honest
I don’t think the team is built to trap either… they’d probably make mistakes on coverages playing the trap also… they’re just error prone, as most young teams are.
It’s not the lack of effort that’s killing them… it’s the mistakes.
They’ve mailed in a few games, but when you outshoot the opposition 29 to 16 and you get zero goals and they get 5, it’s not just about how they aren’t playing the trap.
They’ve been unlucky, the bounces haven’t gone their way, etc. That will change at some point in the year, but for now it seems like we need a lightning rod for our criticism’s when Brett Lebda isn’t on the ice. Ron Wilson seems to fit the bill, and he’s a veteran coach so I don’t feel like he’s incapable of dealing with it (better him than the younger players)… but realistically, changing the coach wouldn’t have done much to shift the outcomes of the games we’ve seen them lose in the past 20 or so.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
The team may win more if they were playing the trap, but I don’t think they’re built to play the trap.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Dec 6, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think there’s good arguments on boths sides but I think Burke won’t do it so I don’t sweat it.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Dec 6, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
IF anything like that were gonna happen, it would be in the summer of 2011. I think most can agree on that.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
I honestly
don’t think Burke is evaluating Wilson on the Wins and Losses.
I think they’re looking at the development individual players are making. If they’re improving, and they are on track with their development, then the management are probably happy.
Wins and Losses will matter a lot more in 2 years than they do right now… no matter what Burke has been saying to the press.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
True. If players are at a standstill development-wise that probably factors into it a lot. One thing you have to give Wilson credit for (I think) is Schenn. It seemed really risky at first like he was possibly being rushed, but he’s really turning out to be something.
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
And I'm on Tweetbook
1. I really love
2. Elliott Friedman’s 30 Thoughts
3. it’s very insightful.
by Jo4nny on Dec 6, 2010 3:48 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I’d laugh at the fact that you said “It’s” instead of “They’re” but I’m not sure that’s intentional.
I'm sure
all his jokes is intentional.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Slow down there grammar police
“30 Thoughts” is a title, which is singular.
The elderly: They may seem friendly, but can they really be trusted?
I can’t help imagining William Shatner or Barack Obama reading that.
PPP's resident pencil artist.
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by CanadianMaple09 on Dec 6, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
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