Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Jerry Sandusky's Wife Tries To Run A Reporter Over

NOW do the Toronto Maple Leafs have that much cap space?

Editor's Note: So I dig some digging (ie read the CBA) and I found the relevant passage:

ARTICLE 3 - DURATION OF AGREEMENT

3.1 Term. 

(a) This Agreement is effective retroactive to September 16, 2004 (the "Effective Date"), and shall remain in full force and effect until midnight New York time on September 15, 2011, and shall remain in effect from year to year thereafter unless and until either party shall deliver to the other a written notice of termination of this Agreement at least 120 days prior to September 15, 2011 or not less than a like period in any year thereafter.

(b) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary set forth in subparagraph 3.1(a), the NHLPA shall have the right: (i) to terminate this Agreement as of September 15, 2009 by delivery of written notice of termination to the NHL at least 120 days prior to September 15, 2009; or (ii) to extend this Agreement for one additional year to September 15, 2012 by delivery of written notice to the NHL of such election to extend at least 120 days prior to September 15, 2011. 

If I understand the rest of the cap correctly that means that bonuses will count towards the cap unless the deal is extended and the latest it can be done is June 15th, 2011. I believe that means that for now, because the cap is ending, that they will count. With the NHLPA in disarray they might extend the agreement one more year in order to buy themselves some time to get their act together. Either way, for now it's clear as mud.

Wow.  In one day Burke unloaded one of the Leafs worst contracts (Blake) and our worst player (Toskala), but he also unloaded two of our best contracts (White, at least for this year, and Hagman).  What does this mean for the future, and specifically our cap space?  Mirtle has the basics here, but let's go a bit further.

Star-divide

Talent-wise, I think the two trades are a clear upgrade.  Giguere for Toskala and Blake is a joke.  This is why you maintain salary cap flexibility--so you can rob teams blind when they're up against the cap like the Ducks post-Hiller extension.

On the Flames trade, I like to break it down into three mini-trades.  First, Mayers for Sjostrom.  This favours the Leafs because while Mayers is tougher, Sjostrom is younger and is cost-controlled for another years.  Not a big deal wither way--they're both bit players.

Second, Stajan for Aulie.  Consider this the equivalent of a deadline day "UFA for a prospect" trade.  Aulie was a 4th round pick but it sounds like he's now more like the value of a 2nd-rounder (i.e. equivalent to the Antropov trade).  Not a sure thing but a good chance of being a solid NHLer.  A fair trade, and if 2 years from now Aulie is on our 3rd pair making less than $1MM, we're very happy.

Third, White and Hagman for Phaneuf.  This, of course, all depends on whether Phaneuf is the next Chris Pronger or the next Wade Redden (or somewhere in between).  It sure seems like the Leafs are buying low and selling high for a change, but who knows.  White has arguably been the better player this year even ignoring Hagman.  However, I don't think even the biggest White fan thinks his upside can touch "Norris trophy candidate".  This could be a Gilmour-esque heist, or it could be a franchise-crippling disaster.

The cap situation makes it a bit more complicated.  Next year, the impact is a bit equivocal.  Ignoring Toskala, Mayers and Stajan, UFAs who were clearly going to be gone anyway, the Leafs would have had Hagman for $3MM, Blake at $4MM, and let's assume White at $3.5MM, for a total cap hit of $10.5MM.  Instead, we get Giguere, Phaneuf & Sjostrom for $13.25.  So we're losing almost $3MM in cap space.

In year two, you still would have had Hagman, Blake and (let's assume again) White for $10.5MM, but we're only locked into Phaneuf for $6.5MM.  So we've picked up $4MM in cap space.  That to me is what clinches this deal as a winner.  Next year is not when we expect to be contending.  2011-12 is.  We currently only have $28.6MM committed to 7 players, leaving almost $30MM for 16 players, many of whom can be expected to be kids earning near the league minimum (Kadri, Aulie, Stalberg, Hanson, Gunnarson, Mikus, who knows, maybe even one of Stefanovich, Didomenico or Dale Mitchell).  Provided Phaneuf doesn't pull a Redden, I think we're on a much more solid foundation for the future.

I must say though, adding almost $6MM in salary to our blueline (after subtracting White's contract) makes one thing clear--we need to shed a high-priced defenceman.  The Leafs currently have $22.5MM tied up in Kaberle, Phaneuf, Beauchemin, Komisarek and Finger.  That's nuts, particularly when Gunnarsson belongs in the top 4, Mikus and/or Aulie will probably be ready by 2011, and you've still got Schenn.  I see two main options, assuming Burke won't deal one of his off-season UFA acquisitions:

1. Trade Kaberle for a forward.  I hate to see him go because he's got one of the best veteran contracts in the league, and I wouldn't do it unless we were getting an under-25 top 3 forward.  Probably an impossible task.

2. Ditch Finger.  I see two ways to accomplish this.  The most palatable for Leafs fans is making him the highest priced Marlie for the next two years.  I think Burke will resist this because (a) the beancounters will hate it, and (b) I don't think Burke likes the idea of burying an NHL-calibre guy in the AHL for two years just because someone gave him a stupid contract.  You couldn't risk bringing him up because he would look good to another team on re-entry waivers for $1.75MM and then we're stuck with the other half of his salary in dead cap space.

The other choice is to try to trade him.  Obviously no one would be insane enough to take that salary straight up so we'd have to add something to sweeten the pot.  Since we don't have any picks, and I wouldn't want to trade any young talent, all I could think of would be to throw in Poni.  We'd get a 7th round pick in return just to make it look like an actual trade rather than a dump.  I don't know if any contender would be desperate enough for a 2nd line winger and a 3rd pair D to swallow this contract but I hope Burke's looking.

So assuming Burke chooses option 2 what do we look like next year?  I'll assume we re-sign our RFAs at a roughly 10% increase, and that Gustavsson is re-signed for $2MM (I don't think he's as marketable now as he was last year given his heart problems and mediocre play).  The roster looks like this (thanks to Capgeek.com):

2010-2011 Toronto Maple Leafs
PLAYERBONUSCAP HIT
FORWARDS
Phil Kessel $5,400,000
Tyler Bozak ($2,850,000) $3,725,000
Mikhail Grabovski $2,900,000
* Nikolai Kulemin $1,650,000
* Christian Hanson $1,000,000
Colton Orr $1,000,000
Viktor Stalberg ($65,000) $850,000
Fredrik Sjostrom $750,000
* John Mitchell $600,000
Jay Rosehill $512,500
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf $6,500,000
Mike Komisarek $4,500,000
Tomas Kaberle $4,250,000
Francois Beauchemin $3,800,000
Luke Schenn ($2,100,000) $2,975,000
Carl Gunnarsson ($170,000) $800,000
GOALTENDERS
Jean-Sebastien Giguere $6,000,000
* Jonas Gustavsson $2,000,000
BUYOUTS
Darcy Tucker $1,000,000
LOST VIA REENTRY WAIVERS
NONE
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER SIZE 18
SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $50,212,500
BONUSES $5,185,000
CAP SPACE $10,847,500

So we'd have almost $11MM* to add a backup D and 3 forwards.  If you assume your 7th D and 13th F are going to earn no more than $1.5MM combined (and Burke's too smart to pay those spots much more), that means you have over $9MM to add two forwards--plenty to either sign or trade for a legit Marleau-type first liner and a third liner/PK type (Halpern? Primeau?).  Our line-up could look something like this:

Kessel-Marleau-Kulemin
Stalberg-Bozak-Hanson
Sjostrom-Grabovski-Halpern
Orr-Mitchell-Rosehill

Kaberle-Komisarek
Beauchemin-Phaneuf
Schenn-Gunnarsson

Giguere
Gustavsson

The last change I'd make to that lineup would be to trade Grabovski for a second-line winger, dropping Hanson to the third line.  Another option would be to target Kovalchuk (I'm still not convinced Atlanta can re-sign him) instead of Marleau, sliding Kulemin to the second line, but you'd have to be pretty damn sure Bozak's the real deal.  Either way, that's a young team with a legit first line, great defence, solid NHL goaltending (I'm not putting it any higher than that) some upside on the second line, a pesky third line and a tough fourth line.  A team that might actually contend for a playoff spot.

* EDIT: as PPP pointed out (and others have elsewhere), if the NHLPA doesn't exercise its option to extend the CBA beyond 2011, the Leafs will have to count bonuses against the cap next year (even if they aren't earned?) meaning we'd have only $6MM in cap space, not $11MM.    This would obviously put a serious kink in my plans but given how cap strapped many other teams are, I suspect it would also open up a lot of opportunities.  $6MM is still a lot to play with in a cap-strapped market.

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

Comment 132 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

More from Pension Plan Puppets

Mats Sundin Memory # 9 - Captain Clutch

Feb 2012 by PPP - 41 comments

Get Ready For The Big House

Feb 2012 by JP Nikota - 558 comments

Do The Leafs 'Give Up' on Grabbo?

Feb 2012 by SkinnyFish - 755 comments

DOWN THE JETS!

Feb 2012 by JP Nikota - 160 comments

Comments

Display:

Great post

I’m going to pop it on the front page but one thing I want you to check/account for is that bonuses in 2010-11 will count towards the cap because the CBA is expiring. That’ll take $5M off of the available money but it’s still $6M for 4 players.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 1, 2010 10:49 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

not sure about capgeek

but nhlnumbers will just give you the assumed cap hits calculated as they sit on paper.

but as the days roll by, the actual impact of the bonuses will change.
i.e. if kadri has a 50-goals-in-50-games bonus for $500k, once game 51 rolls along that will shrink his bonus hit by that much.
or if any player with a games-played bonus is mathematically eliminated from reaching that bonus, that portion of the bonus will no longer be floating on the cap.

the NHL keeps track of these things, but i dont think the websites do.

but you can’t go over the cap until these things are erased. if the example above was in place, and kadri has 12 goals in 45 games, you still wouldn’t be able to spend the bonus amount because he could theoretically still reach that bonus in the time remaining.

by Death_By_Leafs on Feb 1, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

What do you think the chances are that Burke Keeps Kaberle and tries to deal komisarek or beauchemin….

with phaneuf here now doesnt it make a guy like beauchemin or komisarek not really neccessary? we still need puck movers at the back end.

I still hope the hang on to schenn for the long haul

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Feb 1, 2010 11:20 AM EST reply actions  

Zero percent chance. Komi and Beauch are “Burke” type players. Kaberle is not.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Feb 1, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Kaberle will also probably fetch a first line player
komi and beauch will not

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Feb 1, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

As good as a passer as Kaberle is; I think his pass first, shoot second later philosophy hinders the powerplay. And its on the PK that Toronto needs to improve before the PP.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Feb 1, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

thanks for the input guys, so who will be the one to carry the puck on the if kaberle goes?

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Feb 1, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

edit

*on the PP

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Feb 1, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

This is why I’m scared to trade Kaberle until we have a replacement for what he brings to the table. It is a remarkably scarce commodity in the NHL.

by The '67 Sound on Feb 1, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

thats why i almost want burke to try and move either Komi or Beauch

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Feb 1, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

but like what was mentioned above, Komi and Beacuh are fresh burke signings and not likley to go anywhere soon

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Feb 1, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

"Burke" type

That’s just perception. I think Kaberle has lived up to Burke’s expectations this season, maybe even exceeded them. Beauchemin might be a disappointment and hasn’t excelled in his role the way they’d hoped or expected.

by general borschevsky on Feb 1, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s true that Burke has repeatedly spoken very highly of Kabby. Personally, I think he brings more to the table than Komisarek does, but I think the odds of him sticking around are slim. I will mourn him when he leaves.

by JP Nikota on Feb 1, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

also, the best part of yesterday was “im not done yet”, man after an exciting olympics we get the trade deadline a couple days later. The draft might sting a little this year, but july 1st should be exciting as well.

The most boring leaf season of my life has turned pretty exciting in a hurry

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Feb 1, 2010 11:22 AM EST reply actions  

That was the best part, and he can’t be done. The team makes no sense as presently constructed (I know Burke likes to build from the net out but this is ridiculous) but it’s easy to see the possibilities for additional moves that will balance the team out.

by The '67 Sound on Feb 1, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly, this is why he has a 6 year deal. Burke has lots of time to fill out the forward ranks, i laugh when i see people say “who will score goals now?”
That will be addressed at a later date. I dont think they care one bit who boston drafts

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Feb 1, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I had the same roster (with somehow magically making Finger disappear), but added:

Deveaux at his current salary : 0.5
Primeau at 1.2 mill.
=
21 roster players
Payroll: $53,445,500
Bonuses: $5,185,000
Cap Space: $7,614,500

Pending that bonus thingy PPP updated you on.

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 12:38 PM EST reply actions  

This is an interesting line-up, but it’s desperately in need of a decent center and someone with some offensive pop. The three centres listed above (Bozak, Grabbo and Mitchell) have combined for just 11 goals in 86 games this season.

Your numbers are low on Kulemin – his cap hit is already $1.4M and the Leafs have to qualify him at 105% – and Hanson, who is also an RFA, albeit one with next to no leverage.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

Agree the current team is desperately short up the middle—that’s why I think Burke has been angling for Marleau all along. Long term I think Grabbo and maybe even Bozak are gone with Marleau or someone like him and Kadri as the top 2 centres.

I have Kulemin at $1.65MM—that’s almost 120% of his current salary. I think the rest of the RFAs have no leverage.

by The '67 Sound on Feb 1, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Marleau isn’t happening. Kaberle moved for a center is more likely, IMHO.

by birky on Feb 1, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Possibility that the stalling of the Cal-NY trade might have something to do with Burke finding out about it and trying to make one of the teams an offer that involves dumping a D-man?

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

would you trade for Matt Gilroy, or are you happy with the d-men we have now. or if the caps were willing to trade alzner for kaberale would you take that?

by Skins4ever on Feb 1, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would we trade Kabby for a defenseman when we need a forward?

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

As an FYI

While with the best of intentions; Skins4ever asks the dumbest hypothetical questions possible, and understands next to nothing about the topics he brings up.

The truth hurts

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Feb 1, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I noticed that yesterday, I was answering his question with a rhetorical one.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s best to leave him be and move on.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Feb 1, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

10-4

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Kulemin has the option of the KHL and he has some leverage by putting up back to back 15 goal seasons. I think he’ll demand, and get, more than $1.6M/year.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

so kulemin is most likely gone from the leafs?

by Skins4ever on Feb 1, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

No.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

kulie kontract

his base is only about 0.850, and 0.850 in bonuses.
but his cap is 1.488 instead of 1.7 because of a weak bonus in his first year.

so do you re-qual him at 1m + bonuses, or do you just give him a hard 1.5m?

by Death_By_Leafs on Feb 1, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

You qualify him at the minimum required (105% of base, I think) and you negotiate from there.

I was digging up old RFA offers for 15G 30Pt guys for a comparison, but didn’t turn up much. Kulemin has some leverage here though – he can go to the KHL for more money and the Leafs really need forwards.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah i get that, plus he’s contributed a lot of stuff thats not in pts columns.

but im wondering more is he at the stage where he will still be on a bonus-laden contract, or is he now in fixed salary mode?

hes still only 22… are there guidelines/stipulations for 2nd contract players at that age?

by Death_By_Leafs on Feb 1, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

CBA sets out what bonuses are allowed. Can’t recall off the top of my head, but they’re very limited.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

The Need

for Quality centres cannot be understated (For the Leafs and hockey in general)

Here’s hoping Kadri is the real deal in 11-12

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

he should of made the roster out of camp. in my opinion.

by Skins4ever on Feb 1, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Kadri should have made the team this year?

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it would have been great to expose him to this toxic environment and horrible play…

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

eeee

Yeah he sure looked great in 6 exhibition games, 82 reg. season games is so much different. Thought it was great he’s playing Junior this year and in particular, got a crack at the WJC

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

This

Look at Stalberg, he outshot Kadri in exhibition yet couldn’t cut it in the season.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

that true but look what they did with luke schenn, got drafted high then played with the big club

by Skins4ever on Feb 1, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

and look how his development has gone.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

fletch shit the bed on that one

no reason to be a shining star on a pile of dung last year.
couldve played another wjc and possibly won a memorial cup with kelowna.

dont rush kids for no reason. if he never played in the nhl until he was 21 or 22, would any of us think that was a major bust?

instead you have morons ready to run a 20 year old out of town because of half a struggling season…

by Death_By_Leafs on Feb 1, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

morons

Not…you..

/channeling costanza

by Death_By_Leafs on Feb 1, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

This

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that in addition to the fact that Schenn was one of the team’s best defencemen last year they were trying to make a point.

Wilson repeatedly stated that Schenn was staying because he deserved it and because players have to be held accountable. It was an attempt to show how the new regime would work and it worked with White, Stajan, and Blake as well. Unfortunately, it didn’t work enough miracles.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 1, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

again, fletch failed

he should be making safe decisions as interim GM. im sure wilson loved what schenn had going in his first camp, but as GM you have to override your coach into making the decision that will be best for your young asset. especially as an interim GM who wont be the final user of schenn and therefore shouldnt engage him in a way that possibly hurts him in the long run by rushing him AND burns a year off his contract at a time when the team is going to play like a steaming pile.

also, all those sweet defensive plays he used to make potentially cost us a chance at tavares/hedman/duchene….

FLETCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

by Death_By_Leafs on Feb 1, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Fletcher was building a team as he saw fit. there was never a timeline for when a new GM would be hired.

It’s unfair, but fairly typical, to place blame on him for this. Nobody can build a team in the scant 10 months he was at the helm. The team we see now is a byproduct of the decisions Quinn and JFJ made during their tenures.

Fletcher was tasked with clean up, while trying to ice the best team he could. To be honest, last year’s crop was far more entertaining than this season, so I tend to think he did a half decent job given what he had to work with. Were it not for those NTCs, we could have seen guy Jeff Carter in a Leafs uni, and Kubina would be in San Jose with McLaren returning the Leafs way. Not a step up, but McLaren would be off the books already, unlike XLB.

Who knows what else he could have managed to do…

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Feb 1, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I do think that Fletcher should have had a narrower mandate but as Blurr points out there was no timeline for the hire of the permanent GM.

But I think that, as these trades have shown, culture change was and continues to be a very important goal on the GM’s radar. Keeping Schenn up was part of that process.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 1, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

because luke schenn was physically mature enough to play in the NHL, Kadri wasnt
and he probably would have benefited greatly for an extra year in Jr

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Feb 1, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Dumping Finger

and Exelby. I had a thought on my way home, which is basically that we should aim for getting something better than a 7th rounder in these deals, without actually getting “more”… the Stralman trade type-way.

So as you suggest, we could trade Poni and XLB for a 7th… why not try and do something like trade them and a 4th for a 3rd, or them and a 5th for a 4th, or something like that. Same with XLB, i’d rather send him to playoff team with Defensive injuries with a 7th or 6th and get back a 4th or 5th rounder.

In this case, we wouldn’t be getting any more draft picks, but improving the quality of picks in a draft where we have no 1st rounder. Also take in mind that these picks don’t all have to be for 2010.

Any thoughts? Or am I just naive?

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:15 PM EST reply actions  

it looks like Poni is someone we actually really need to keep now, we still need to ice decent forwards and he is one of the few left

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Feb 1, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

This is true, but he’s also a FA, and if we could use him as a rental to get rid of Finger’s contract, I’d do it and hope he resigns here due to his connections to Toronto.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a feeling that Burke is against those rental deals where the team re-signs the player, and has an understanding that the player will come back.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Feb 1, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

He seems like he is (because he’s all about being fair to players), but what if the player wants it (chance to play in the playoffs, can come back to his hometown)?

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah I dunno. Someone should ask Burke that, instead of asking if he’s going to ask Kaberle to waive his NTC

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Feb 1, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

But wouldn’t Burke admitting to this be tampering?

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I have no idea.
Although, I asked Mirtle if it was possible to ask Wilson why he thought he couldn’t do a slow rebuild like LA and he said it was unlikely Wilson would ever go public with that, so it’s likely the media knows Burke would never ask this anyways.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Feb 1, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

although

you could keep it general – just ask Burke if he feels it’s circumventing the CBA to trade a player at the deadline and then re-sign him July 1 – that wouldn’t be tampering, provided no player names are mentioned.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Feb 1, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Just curiosity, how often do players traded to other teams as rentals come back the very next season? I can’t think of any, but my knowledge of hockey history is very limited

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Feb 1, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Glen Wesley did a couple times with Carolina I think….that springs to mind immediately. Did it once with the Leafs I’m pretty sure

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Keith Tkathuk

almost positive i butchered that name

by Neale's Harry on Feb 1, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Doug Weight did it in St. Louis in 2006.

Tkachuk got traded from St. Louis to Atlanta and back to St. Louis in 2007.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

It happens, you would think someone like Stajan (from mississauga, grew up a leafs fan, played his entire career here) would come back if we wanted him, and Poni (met wife here, kids born here, spent entire career here) would be the same. I’m not saying it will happen, just that it can’t be ruled out.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

how many years does kaberale have left with his deal?

cuz at the money he is making plus the no trade clause, i would be very relucent to move him, now i night not want to lose him for nothing but with that kind of dough he is earning it will be tough

by Skins4ever on Feb 1, 2010 1:25 PM EST reply actions  

next year is his last year

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Feb 1, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

His clause has a window to trade starting July 1st.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

According to McKenzie @ TSN

the trade window opens on draft day. This is his comment re: the Kessel for Kabby rumors leading up to the draft this past summer:

While he has a no-trade clause, Kaberle’s contract allows him to be dealt during a small window in the offseason that opens with the commencement of the draft tonight.

article here

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Feb 1, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Question:

Gustavsson is an RFA making $2.5M. How can the Leafs resign him for less, if according to the CBA, a player making more than $1M on his entry level deal has to be resigned for, at minimum, 100% of his previous deal?

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Feb 1, 2010 1:26 PM EST reply actions  

sounds like 2.5 it is.

Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!

by blindfolded tank driver on Feb 1, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

His base salary is $900K, the rest is signing bonus, etc. The RFA qualifying offer only pertains to the base salary, so the Leafs have to offer him approx $1M to retain his rights.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

V. nice.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank God and mf37 for that.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Feb 1, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

ok

Kulemin’s base is $637,500, with a bonus of $850k.

confuses me that for him it’s factored in, but for Gustavsson it’s not…

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Feb 1, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m assuming we can qualify him for next to nothing, but he would refuse and head overseas or get offer-sheeted?

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

i’d rather not assume anything. qualify him at 110% of $637,500 and see where it goes from there.

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Feb 1, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah that’s what I mean, we can qualify him at next to nothing, but will have to negotiate something realistic. I guess I worded that in a bad way.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Do bonuses count towards the minimum 105% RFA offer?

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Feb 1, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

So

Apprently this:

Stempniak-Mitchell-Finger

Was one of the FWD lines at practice today

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

Said in the Sun that he is just filling Hanson’s spot until he gets called up.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

wut?

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Feb 1, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That makes Jeff Finger the Leafs’ second highest paid forward.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Feb 1, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

hahahaha….
(if only for a minute, I can laugh again as a Leaf fan)

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

OMG FINGER = FORWARD

Secret Weapon Jeff Winger?
The next Ian White super-magic-skillz?

Jeff Finger can play defense
Jeff Finger can play forward
Jeff Finger can play possum
Jeff Finger can do anything
Jeff Finger can be traded for Colin Wilson AND Claude Giroux AND Derrick Brassard.
Jeff Finger can PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

by Death_By_Leafs on Feb 1, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes! Its all true except for the defense part

by Grabovski's better than you think on Feb 1, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey – it worked for Ian White….

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Feb 1, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah….read that part too.
But still hilarious – Jeff Finger at wing…come on you can’t write that stuff

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 1:40 PM EST reply actions  

Here's the quote for everyone's benefit:
Up front, the lines were: Alexei Ponikarovsky-Tyler Bozak-Phil Kessel; Nikolai Kulemin-Rickard Wallin-Fredrik Sjostrom; Jay Rosehill-Keith Primeau-Colton Orr; and Jeff Finger-John Mitchell-Lee Stempniak.

Finger, a defenceman, was playing up front in place of a soon-to-be-called-up Marlie, likely Christian Hanson.

From Here

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Good lord that’s terrifying (and not in a good way).

BTW, I’ve been away for a week—where’s Stalberg?

by The '67 Sound on Feb 1, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Marlies

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Feb 1, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey SkinnyFish

im sorry, i am not asking revelent question at this moment bet i understand my scenario are compelte in thought but i am trying to follow thee leafs every night and i am happy to be allowed to post on such a awesome hockey blog. i love the leafs and i try to make apoint and i know they might suck but im trying to sound as smart as i can with the leafs talk

by Skins4ever on Feb 1, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Keep on

Keep on’n brutha. Free speech allows a lot worse. You’ll never learn unless you ask.

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah dont worry

if you think your question is dumb, maybe you will see the explanations from other posters.

OR

if you think your question is dumb, maybe you’re just coming at it from a different angle and smarter than everyone.
Remember, anythings possible when Toskala + Blake = Giguere

by Death_By_Leafs on Feb 1, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

There’s no problem with looking for information but try to keep on topic.

General hockey talk goes in the morning links post. That’s where you can ask questions about any topic.

In each post try to stay on topic as much as possible.

Cheers.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 1, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair

stay on topic.

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

They need to get Stalberg into the lineup. We need more info on what we’ve got in these guys before the offseason. I don’t think there’s much confusion as to what we have in Rosehill, for example.

by The '67 Sound on Feb 1, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

And I don’t think those lines are in order. Just confused as to why Kuli is playing with Wallin and Sjostrom when you’d expect this is the time for him to REALLY step it up and play a top-6 role.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

The surprise there is not Kuli, it’s Sjostrom. Wallin is going to be getting 2nd line minutes for the immediate future, more than likely.

I had the impression that Sjostrom was a Mayers-type player, except he had the benefit of not being Mayers. Am I off on that assessment?

Also, more importantly, does he have a nickname yet?

Prefers pugnacity to truculence.

by chillin411 on Feb 1, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I just call him shoestring because i refuse to put effort into learning how to spell his name

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Feb 1, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m thinking this line (Kuli-Wallin-Sjostrom) is the third line, and the Hanson/Stalberg-Mitchell-Stemps will be playing the 2nd line role. That’s why I’m surprised, I would swap Kili with Hanson/Stalberg or Stemp.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

From what I’ve heard he’s very fast but has terrible hands. Good defensive instincts though.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 1, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I would rather

play him at Centre than Rickard Wallin, lol.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, Keith Primeau?

Well, it beats Jason Allison, I guess.

by Godd Till on Feb 1, 2010 2:14 PM EST reply actions  

Keith Primeau skates way faster than Allison, but he has a tough time remembering where he’s supposed to be going.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

?

huh

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

thats what im saying

by Skins4ever on Feb 1, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

What about Keith Primeau – they didn’t sign him outta retirement did they?

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Feb 1, 2010 2:35 PM EST reply actions  

Whoa I just noticed that. Its in the Sun quote I pasted above, obviously a slip by the reporter.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

i hope the hell not. if they did. WHY he has concussion problems his entire career, he is one hit away from something really awful happening to him

by Skins4ever on Feb 1, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Whoa I just noticed that. Its in the Sun quote I pasted above, obviously a slip by the reporter.

Obviously whoever wrote the article wrote “keith” instead of “wayne” by mistake.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh ok, that make me feel much better.

by Skins4ever on Feb 1, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

That's funny
Wayne Primeau: “Ya, I always feels like I’m in my brother’s shadow…”

Ron Wilson: “Cool. I didn’t know you had a brother, Kieth!”

Classic Bloge

by general borschevsky on Feb 1, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I was joking about this on twitter with Kaberle’s BFF eyebleaf, but couldn’t we possibly try Kaberle at forward? Even just a limited role. I’m highly intrigued at what would happen. Plus, it would brain 2 birds with one stone.

I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.

by kidkawartha on Feb 1, 2010 4:11 PM EST reply actions  

I think i’d laugh if I saw Kabby in the face-off circle.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Feb 1, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Kabby’s game isn’t really moving in tight spaces, forechecking and finishing (pretty important skills for a forward). His gift is bringing it up the ice and distributing from the point, and I’m just not sure that translates well to the forward position. Even Adam Oates type centres need a bit of jam to work their magic and I’m not sure Kaberle has it—putting aside the difficult of picking up a new position so late in his career.

by The '67 Sound on Feb 1, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

You have to admit it would be intriguing to see Kaberle playing center for a few games.

I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.

by kidkawartha on Feb 1, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I can’t disagree with that and at this point, what the hell—he couldn’t be worse than Wallin, right?

by The '67 Sound on Feb 1, 2010 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Kaberle may be this team’s most tradeable asset. Why would you risk injury or lessening his trade value by experimenting with him at a new position?

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

SCIENCE!

Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That

by JaredFromLondon on Feb 1, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL!

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

For the duel position bonus in fantasy hockey.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Feb 1, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I Know What To Do!

Why not just move Kaberle to Forward?
Crazy? Yes
Anything to lose? Nope

by WendelMadeMe on Feb 1, 2010 5:02 PM EST reply actions  

RE: Weak up the middle

From The Star:

Also, look for Christian Hanson to be called up. Hanson, a centre in his days at Notre Dame, was converted to a winger by the Leafs, but has been a centre again for the Marlies. With Mikhail Grabovski still hurt — he was getting the cast off his wrist Monday — and Matt Stajan now with Calgary, Hanson will probably get a chance to play centre.

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 5:59 PM EST reply actions  

I like.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Feb 1, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Positives:

He’s a human being that is capable of playign the position

So Handsome.

by Archimedies on Feb 1, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I.e. not Wallin

Moustache Fever, not to be confused with swine flu.

by Shield on Feb 1, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

does any one know if the cap is based on the 20 men iced, or the 23 on the active roster?

40 years we've stayed loyal, waited, and pained. That is the honor of being a Leafs' fan.

by Kriv on Feb 1, 2010 9:52 PM EST reply actions  

roster

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Feb 1, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

ok, thanks

40 years we've stayed loyal, waited, and pained. That is the honor of being a Leafs' fan.

by Kriv on Feb 1, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Your best source for quality Toronto Maple Leafs news, rumours, analysis, stats and scores from the fan perspective.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Frank_serpico_by_drawmanou_small
How to Value Mikhail Grabovski

Recent FanPosts

N907005365_1934770_7971_small
Leafs vs. Habs and the red hot $cott Gomez!!
Black_sox_small
First-time jersey purchase
Blawrie_small
Irresponsible Speculation Time
Syrupglleaf17lg_small
The Stretch Drive Schedule: DIY Analysis (AKA I have way too much time on my hands)
Leafs_small
Heartbreaking S-O Loss to Penguins
N907005365_1934770_7971_small
Complaining like an All-Star
Small
Mental Health and Kevin Bieksa
Leafs_small
AllStar Fantasy Draft........P'neuf Already
Frank_serpico_by_drawmanou_small
Team Defense Cap Hit vs. Performance

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

StatCounter

wordpress visitor


Chief Blogging Officers

Calvin_small PPP

Aen1_small Chemmy

PPP's Girlfriends

Don_t_panic_small SkinnyFish

Picture_1_small JP Nikota

Fg_small birky

Christian-hanson-wrecks-brian-o_1__small Bower Power