Mirtle Mailbag No. 1
Editor's Note: Welcome to the inaugural edition of the Mirtle Mailbag here at Pension Plan Puppets. Thanks to everyone that sent in questions. If you don't see yours answered it's because there were so many to choose from. Definitely keep trying when the call for questions goes out again. You can read James' writing at the Globe and Mail as well as on the Globe on Hockey blog where you can find the features that you loved like the Playoff Push. The easiest way to track his writing is through his eponymous blog which has been resurrected. Without further ado:
1. Given the Leafs/Sharks game on Monday, Bobby Orr being in town (Kaberle/Setoguchi), SJ reputedly wanting to move Ryan Clowe and us having Alexei Ponikarovsky ready to go, can you envision a huge multi-player deal here, and if so, what would you do/like to see?- Kidkawartha
What, you want more?
I do think we're going to see more deals made by the Leafs, but I doubt they'll be "huge" ones unless something shifts with Kaberle. (Then again, who saw the Phaneuf deal coming?) Alexei Ponikarovsky and Lee Stempniak either need new contracts or to be moved out, and I think the organization's leaning toward letting them go.
I think they should move Kaberle, but it doesn't have to necessarily be by the deadline. Maybe he fetches more in the off-season when there are more teams in the mix?
The Leafs appear to pretty much have their top five on the blueline figured out at this point (Phaneuf, Beauchemin, Schenn, Komisarek, Gunnarsson) and with Kaberle's minutes down into the 17, 18 minute range lately, I don't see him as an integral piece going forward. Yes, he's produced points, but I can't help but look at his QCMP and GA/60 at even strength and think it's time to move his salary for some help up front.
2. By trading away so many regular players, Burke has gone to the kids and Marlies to fill out the roster, and with some pretty impressive results thus far. This then brings up a big questions about free agency and Burke's plan for it. Do you feel that Burke plans to keep the kids up for next year and therefore will won't be as active as he was last offseason? Or do you believe that he'll ship them back down and fill out the roster with free agents in their place?- SkinnyFish
It's going to be somewhere in between. The thing is, there aren't that many great UFAs available this summer, and even if there were, Burke doesn't have a ton of dough to spend. I think they'll make a big push for at least one veteran forward who can make an impact and then keep the youngsters around in more of a support role than they've been forced to play lately.
Players like Tyler Bozak and Carl Gunnarsson have shown they belong in the big leagues, two of the good news stories out of this season. I bet Nazem Kadri comes in to play, too, so there'll be plenty of youth.
3. Since the lockout the Leafs' goaltenders have posted uniformly terrible save percentages--usually well below expectations coming in. To what extent is this attributable to goalies being on the downside of their careers (which would certainly seem to apply to Eddie Belfour, Andrew Raycroft and Vesa Toskala), and to what extent has the Leafs defence corps given up higher than average shot quality? In other words, is the addition of a league-average or better goalie all we need to really solve our defensive woes, given that the Leafs are smack in the middle of the pack in shots allowed?
- The '67 Sound
That's a great question, one I wish I had a better answer for. This is something I've chatted with Gabe Desjardins about a few times, and he says the stats show that the Leafs haven't been doing their goaltenders many favours the past few seasons.
It's interesting with Toskala though because I think he's the perfect example of a goaltender dramatically affecting the way the team in front of him plays. He lacked confidence, his teammates and coaches lacked confidence in him, and it was just a complete disaster.
Enter Giguere, and after three games, it's a different story. Toronto hasn't been a strong defensive team in, well, it seems like a long, long time, often relying on strong goaltending from guys like Cujo and Belfour and being one of the top scoring teams in the league to get it done.
All that said, I blame the goaltending a little more than defensive play. Raycroft and Toskala are just not NHL starters -- and especially not in a market this demanding on a No. 1. It makes you realize just how special the guys who did it well were because this has to be the toughest city in the league to carry that load.
4. Based on what you have seen thus far, do you believe that Viktor Stalberg and Tyler Bozak can be top-six forwards on a playoff team?
- The '67 Sound
Bozak more so than Stalberg, although both have shown that they're going to play in this league for a while. What I really like from Bozak is his work ethic and hockey sense -- he's not a very big guy, but he can overcome that with the skills he's got.
Right now, he looks like he'll be a 60-point second-line centre. I'm not sure on Stalberg yet, but the guy's got some real physical gifts that could make him a solid third-liner. He's just not generating enough offensively to merit much acclaim right now.
5. What is the single biggest missing piece of the puzzle for the Leafs moving forward (looking at their organization as a whole, including junior, college and AHL players in the system)? I think it's a big, top 6 centre -- both Kadri and Bozak project more as the shifty playmaker type.
- The '67 Sound
Exactly, which immediately makes me think Patrick Marleau would look nice as a Leaf.
Problem being, his history with Wilson isn't exactly great.
They really need a first-line centre who can go up against the other big dogs around the league, but those are really tough to come by and a lot of teams have to get by without one. The other option is to find a 1A or 1B who can take some of the load off the smaller, speedy pivots they've got a lot of. (Grabovski is in that group, too.)
6. What is Mikhail Grabovski's future in the organization? For 2011-12 I project Bozak and Kadri, in some order, as the top 2 centres. Grabovski doesn't strike me as a 3rd line type, but he's under contract for that season. What do you think Burke has in mind?
- The '67 Sound
Another good question. Grabovski's play here after the Olympics is going to be really important I think for his future with the Leafs, as he has not been all that impressive to date. Is he going to peak as a speedy, 50-point centre or is there more there?
And, as a sidebar, does he have trade value given his contract? Because I could see him being moved if there's a buyer.
7. What is Burke's plan for Jeff Finger? Does he really plan to have him on the NHL roster next year? Are the Leafs trying to set a record for "highest cap hit for a defence corp"?
- The '67 Sound
Hard not to feel bad for Finger. Yes, he's overpaid, but he should be able to be a depth guy somewhere in the league.
That said, he's been brutal this year -- worse, somehow, than Exelby -- and needs a change in scenery. Burke tried to send him to Anaheim with Toskala instead of Blake, but the Ducks didn't want him.
It's quite likely the Leafs need that cap space for next season, so if there's not a taker for Finger, I think we'll see them try and either eat half his deal by dumping him on re-entry waivers or a buyout ($1.17-million on the cap for four years if they go that route, joining the $1-million a year Tucker is taking up).
My guess is that Burke would like to avoid putting him in the minors and allow him to continue his career somewhere, but it might come to that.
What's crystal clear is that he's very unhappy with the current circumstances.
8. The issue of the Maple Leafs' captaincy seems to perennially be on the minds of the fans. There's been a lot of discussion about who 'should' be the Leafs Captain and some silly names have been thrown around, including several players who are no longer with the club as a result of the recent trades.
My question is this: what specifically is the process that the Leafs use to assign the honour? My understanding is that at least in the old days, the team Captain was selected by his team-mates, rather than management. The idea was that the players identified and supported the leader among them.
Is that idea - that the Captain is chosen by his peers - an outdated concept now, something like a vestige from the pre-PA days when there was a lot more "us vs. them" division between the players and management? How is the issue currently handled by the Leafs (could the players designate a captain if they wanted, or does MLSE purport to reserve some sort of domain over the assignment of that honour?), and are those practices just understood through tradition or are they formalized somewhere?
Also, how does the Leafs' practice in relation to the captaincy relate to the way the issue is handled in other organizations? Does anybody let the players choose the captain anymore?
I promise my next quesiton will be more about x's and o's, but the Captaincy of the Leafs is such a great honour, and there's been so much discussion about who the next Captain ought to be, and I feel like we don't really know a whole lot about how it all works.- jrwendelman
I'm afraid I'm going to have to take a bit of a pass here. I've been around the team a lot the past four months and this is one of those topics no one will offer anything on other than "we have plenty of leadership in the room, etc." The media is just as curious as the fans over how this will be handled, but Wilson isn't interested in talking about it at all.
What I think the concern is is that they're worried the 'C' is just going to put way too much unnecessary pressure on one player. It has to be someone who can deal with the press well given the interview requests (and scrutiny) will shoot up considerably once they add that letter, and the organization just doesn't seem to think anyone's ready for that.
I'd give it to Beauchemin -- although that might change if they add a more suitable someone this summer.
9. What would your best shutdown line look like for the Leafs if you could choose any five players? Also, if you had the reins, what would you do to improve the overall team defence, esp. on PK and GA?
- kidkawartha
Tough call given current personnel. They obviously need more of their top players to be better defensively overall, and I think that'll be one need up front addressed in free agency.
If we're talking even strength, I'd go with Nikolai Kulemin and Fredrik Sjostrom out there on the wings and probably Wayne Primeau at centre. Gunnarsson and Francois Beauchemin have been fine in their own end, although Schenn's come on in that department lately.
Hard to say if Primeau's going to be back given he's a UFA, but they could definitely use an upgrade in the big, checking centre department.
Thanks a ton to everyone that sent in questions. Unfortunately the tragedy on Friday held me up from getting to these a bit quicker but looking forward to weighing in as the season goes along.
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If one of the best hockey minds in the biz answers TWO of your questions, does that make you a little bit famous? And if so, when is the Walk of Fame ceremony for "67 Sound?
I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.
Also, I screwed up my second question- should have added “if you could choose any 5 players league wide?”
I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.
by kidkawartha on Feb 10, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I think it worked out better the way that you sent it in.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
You guys wouldn’t like that: I’d have Alfredsson on it.
Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey
by James Mirtle on Feb 10, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
You all might be interested to know that the one question of mine that Mirtle declined to answer was:
“The sophistication of analysis in Toronto’s daily newspapers often does not match what is available online through various blogs, including yours and this one. Do editors require writers to play to the “common fan”, as opposed to the more sophisticated ones who frequent the Internet? Or are the writers really just more interested in boardroom politics and hackneyed cliches?"
Can’t really blame him for ignoring that one. A big thanks to James for answering any of our questions, and doing so intelligently (see Damien, it’s not so hard).
by The '67 Sound on Feb 10, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for doing this James, these are some great answers. And good questions submitted as well, kudos to you.
I know that one of the answers has raised a question in my mind that I’ll send for the next mailbag (though it wouldn’t surprise me if others also have the same thought).
leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.
Great to see a member of the sports media engaging fans instead of treating them like a burden. I probably got more insight out of this short Q&A than the entire body of Damien Cox’s work over his career.
I have a thing I never update and a Twitter account
Loving the Kaberle QCMP and GA/60 thing.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Agreed
A classic example of how Leafs fans don’t mind being told some of their players aren’t necessarily that good, because it’s done through reasoned analysis, rather than Berger et al’s approach of “Leafs fans are so stupid, how could they think any of their players are any good, this is why the team will always suck.”
by The '67 Sound on Feb 10, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
No I’ve been saying it for years it’s nice for Mirtle to get my back.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
truth
i haven’t been around as long as most, but for as long as I’ve been posting here, Chemmy hasn’t been too keen on Kaberle.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Feb 10, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
His trade value is much higher than his value to the team, people defend his soft play by saying he makes a great first pass that I’ve never seen.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
agreed
you’ve already changed my opinion of him.
not “down” on Kabby per se, just less impressed.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Feb 10, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
He will be gone in the offseason…If not I’ll eat your sombrero.
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Feb 10, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I figured some of you already knew this stuff!
Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey
by James Mirtle on Feb 10, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah
We talk about Kaberle A LOT.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Shhhh
Not all of the users of the internet are accounted for. We don’t know who might be watching!
Phaneuf Phever, an upgrade in skill and alliteration!
JUDAS!
no but, seriously, we really need to trade him.
This season’s a writeoff so I don’t care if its at the deadline or in the summer, but if Kabby is still a Leaf come training camp, Burke will have totally dropped the ball.
A good PK is Club Truculence's cover charge
Now hold on.
There’s a difference between getting a return that helps the team going forward, and trading him just for the sake of trading him. He’s the most valuable asset the team has available to trade, and if Burke doesn’t feel he’s getting the adequate return, I don’t want to see that deal made.
Resident Capologist
Toskala Cap Counter - RIP
PERSPECTIVE!!!!111
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 10, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
disagreed
letting kaberle enter next season as a UFA-to-be with a NTC would be letting an asset wither on the vine. Barring a major offseason shakeup that makes him once again at the core of our D, he absolutely has to be traded for something.
We can’t have 6 defencemen making north of $3.5 million. We just can’t.
A good PK is Club Truculence's cover charge
would you rather have a 1st round pick or a solid prospect at centre ice?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Feb 10, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
We need
a # 1 centre.
Remember when all we had was a #1 centre?
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Feb 10, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
yup.
Read PPP say somethin’ about that the other day, something about how much Sundin was holding the team together
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but then we wanted a number one winger
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
Just look at how the return for Ilya Kovalchuk dropped the closer he got to being a UFA.
Kaberle’s contract is a huge part of what makes him attractive. DGB’s made the point before but for about $1M more you can get him for two playoff runs instead of one.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I don't see Kaberle coming out and saying he wants a max deal
Because that really drove Kovalchuk’s return down.
True but I doubt Burke’s going to allow a team to negotiate with him before a trade either which also played a part.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yah, no.
Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey
by James Mirtle on Feb 10, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
On Captains...
I think one major block to naming captain is Kaberle. He is a vet and longest serving Leaf and to name anyone else captain would be a slap in the face and a black mark on the organization (as an example of how they don’t care, etc, etc, queue the Berger/Cox commentaries). I think once he is shipped out a captain will be named and I would expect it to be a vet of some sorts.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
i disagree
captaincy is not an automatic position for individuals with the longest tenure.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Feb 10, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
But I can see the wait being part because of optics in addition to what James said about it being a very difficult position to hold especially when the team is so terrible.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
What I’d like to know is when it became a decision that management makes.
Shouldn’t the players, at some point, have the option of choosing whether they want to appoint a captain? Maybe they have, I don’t know. That was the reason I asked the question. Much was made of the unanimous player vote in Washington that brought Ovie the “C”; it just seems like things are being done differently in Toronto than they are on other teams.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
well I think BlueBuds has found one part of it with the Kaberle situation… once he’s gone, I think you have a better chance of the team actually voting honestly. That is, while we’ve shipped out most of the long term players, there are probably some that look at Kabby and think he deserves it just for having stuck around so long, he already knows how to deal with the media etc. But if the intention is to trade him, giving him the C right now is a poor idea. Trade him and then let the players vote.
FWIW, Craig Rivet was also voted Captain in Buffalo…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Feb 10, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Man…just about every hockey team i played on (non men’s rec league) the captain was picked by player vote.
It seemed the best way to do it. The Captain had to be someone the team respected and looked up to a bit. He was the middle man between the players and the coach if it ever came up. The players trusted he was busting his back every night.
The odd time the coach appointed a captain, not everyone agreed. And there was some dissonance in the room.
I hope RW leaves this one up to the players.
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
That’s really my point in asking the question. I can understand the reluctance of management to have Kaberle as a captain (though I wonder if the players would really vote for him or not). I’m just a little curious about how the process works – is it basically understood by the players that they have the right to vote for their captain, but – in the case of the Leafs – management has said “you won’t have a captain this year, because this is a team in flux, so don’t vote”? If that message was sent by management, either explicitly or implicitly, that might explain some of the lack of commitment to team play we saw in the early part of the year.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
If that message was sent by management, either explicitly or implicitly, that might explain some of the lack of commitment to team play we saw in the early part of the year.
One of the things that a few Flyers credited for their turnaround was that their GM Paul Holmgren went into the dressing room and said “This is the team. Fix it because I am not trading anyone”.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
This
Despite all the playoffs (!!!1) talk from Burke…I gotta think the players weren’t too dumb to think Burke was done with roster movement. They had to know it was all about finding out who fits long term, while making a push for the playoffs.
I think the psychological impact of that is understated. Guys start playing for themselves “I’m worth it” rather than for the team “Let’s win.”
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
he didn’t step down, they gave the C to Morrow. Modano was pretty upset about it.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Feb 10, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s a brief article touching on it.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Feb 10, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
would we really want a situation like that? Im sure kaberle wouldnt be very happy if someone who has been here for 6 months is the captain instead of him
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Feb 10, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
I couldn't really see Kaberle being to upset about it
He doesn’t seem the type, but then again Modano doesn’t either. Either way, their is very little doubt left that Kaberle’s days are numbered, so I don’t think he would care if someone else was named captain, and if he did, well he’ll be gone in a bit anyway.
This was a great read and I look forward to part deux. Thank goodness for the internet and writers like James.
“What’s crystal clear is that he’s (Jeff Finger) very unhappy with the current circumstances.”
hmmmm….didn’t know THAT! Figured he was unhappy, but sounds like he’s downright pissed and it’s obvious.
So… what’s the statute of limitations regarding us turning on a Leaf player who is unhappy to just be a Leaf (healthy scratch or not)?
Also, if it all happens as expected – the Leafs will go from a team that had too many NHL D-man this season, to a team with short on depth at the D position next season (through the top 5 look pretty good).
Wendel Killer Joseph
You’re probably looking at a D of Phaneuf, Komisarek, Beauchemin, Schenn, and Gunnarsson for sure.
(Assuming Kaberle is traded, Exelby leaves as a free agent, and Finger is buried in the AHL or traded)
Frogren probably leaves too, which leaves the only notable options as Oreskovic, Mikus and Aulie. Aulie and Mikus aren’t ready yet for the NHL, and if you’re in a real cap bind, maybe you can get by with Oreskovic as your #6 if the other 5 are carrying the load. But that puts a lot of pressure on Schenn and Gunnarsson who are still quite young.
So you might be right; the Leafs look like they’ll be in the market for a third pairing Dman next season. (Although searching CapGeek for the free agent defenceman who make less than 1 million, there aren’t too many names that really jump out at me.
Resident Capologist
Toskala Cap Counter - RIP
I think Oreskovic makes the jump next year for sure at this rate. He’ll give them some cap space for the forwards.
It’s definitely a risk but I think he can play the 7-10 minute role well.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I’m not worried about our 6th D. Though only 21, Mikus is in his 4th year playing with men and seems to be doing just fine with the Marlies (his +/- is ugly but only Frogren’s is really better among their regular D). I think he’d be fine as #6. So would Oreskovic, and maybe even Aulie. If they want to put off Mikus’s UFA status I’m fine with any of the upcoming UFA Ds currently making $750K-1MM (Sydor, Schubert, Paetsch, Weaver, McKee, Mottau, Bergeron). They’d only need to play 10-15 minutes/gm.
by The '67 Sound on Feb 10, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
ahhh….this is why I come here….points validated with reason and logic.
to push buttons a bit…I’m worried about what injuries might do. Our depth d-man are low on NHL experience. Mikus, Oreskovic, Aulie as the 6th or 7th options are good. Should an injury force them into large minutes (see Komisarek, Mike and Gunnarsson, Carl) then hope for the best i guess?
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
If early in the season injuries were an issue on the back-end, I could see Burke doing what Montreal did after Markov went down; signing Bergeron as a fill-in.
Resident Capologist
Toskala Cap Counter - RIP
Yup
Just funny how the team will take a turn in one season, too many D to not enough D
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Totally agree we’d be vulnerable to injury. It might not be a bad idea to stock a relatively cheap, experienced depth D-man or two on the Marlies, just in case. That’s what the MLSE coffers are for, right?
On the other hand, look at the Sharks. If you go on their site they’re bemoaning the loss of Vlasic and how Blake and Huskins are playing far more prominent roles than they should be. They still seem to be muddling by, to put it mildly. If the rest of your team is OK the #6 D matters very little.
Bottom line, let’s not do anything rash that would hurt our cap beyond next year. I’m sure you’re not suggesting otherwise.
by The '67 Sound on Feb 10, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
nope….you’ve nailed it. 3 big money D-man are enough. Hope they’re durable and the young’uns can step in when needed.
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Phil Oreskovic
I’ve watched Phil since his junior days in Brampton. Was at last Saturday’s game against the Bulldogs and Phil was out there playing centre for half a dozen shifts. One time he was deep in the Hamilton zone and when he started back to the bench for a line change I wasn’t sure he’d make it back before the end of the period—-there were still about three minutes left.
Phil’s not an NHL defenceman but the Leafs are pretty bare down at the Ricoh so they may not have any choice.
As someone once said, “The only time Phil works out is when he takes his empties back to the Beer Store”
by JRichardson2150 on Feb 10, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Phil went to the Marlies last year being told he had to work on his skating, and RW said he got the emergency call-up because of the improvements in his skating.
His ceiling is as a #6/7 D in the NHL, but with so much money tied up in the rest of the blueline, next year could be a good chance for him to break through.
Resident Capologist
Toskala Cap Counter - RIP
Woz 2.0
is what I’m afraid of
A good PK is Club Truculence's cover charge
wasnt Woz leading the AHl defence in scoring?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Feb 10, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
he was leading the whole AHL in scoring
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
For a little bit. It was strange. I assume it was an AHL-approved prank.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
For a little bit. It was strange. I assume it was an AHL-approved prank.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Welcome
Thanks for joining.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
great feature Overlord, I like it. great answers Mirtle. i’ll try to get some questions in for next time.
I’m really enjoying the site lately on a sidenote. i don’t contribute as much as i’d like, but that’s because all the contributors are just so damn knowledgeable (like Mirtle) that it’s intimidating :p
Keep up the great work Mirtle and PPP
Is that the kid you want?
it’s intimidating
Don’t let it be!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
i’m mostly joking around when i say that. mostly.
my knowledge of hockey comes down to the Xs and Os more than stats. hopefully i can learn to contibute more to that end. meanwhile, i certainly enjoy the trade speculation, cap crunching and scouting reports that seem to be the specialty of everyone else. keep up the great work PPP members!
Is that the kid you want? Follow me on Twitter
If you have something really interesting to say X’s and O’s wise post a Fanshot. If it’s good I’ll toss it on the front page.
I’d love to see some X’s and O’s kinda stuff personally, I think it’s really overlooked in the blogosphere.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Agreed
it is overlooked…Give it a crack Kessticle
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Notwithstanding the recent improvement, I’d love someone to analyze, from an Xs and Os perspective, why our PK has been so terrible (assuming there’s more to it than “Toskala sucks”).
by The '67 Sound on Feb 10, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Well for starters
our weak side coverage from the forwards has been atrocious. The number of times the Leafs have been victimized by back door plays is ridiculous.
They tend to over-rotate on coverages in zone also… they’re too stationary and don’t pressure the point enough… and when they do pressure the point they’ve let too much go down low.
A lot of their mistakes are being made by younger players… i.e. Schenn, Kulemin… but as things go forward you’d like to see that stuff improve.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
But...
unfortunately a lot of it does come back to “Toskala Sucks” . The fact that the Leafs PK was almost 20% better with Gustavsson in net than Toskala has a lot to do with why it was so bad for the first 2/3rds of the year. They were REALLY fucking bad with Toskala in net.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds Good
Now represent it graphically!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I teach graphing
I don’t want to use it when I get home from work… I had a development session on differentiated instruction all day today… I’d rather not bother.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Not graphing
I mean like pictures. It’s drawing. Look at it as fun.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Great stuff
It does seem the Leafs have been vulnerable to the backdoor. I seem to remember Tavares victimizing them repeatedly in one game.
by The '67 Sound on Feb 10, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
It does seem the Leafs have been vulnerable to the backdoor.
I am trying SOOOOOOO hard not to make the obvious joke here.
Resident Capologist
Toskala Cap Counter - RIP
Given how I have felt after many games this year I thought the double entendre was appropriate.
by The '67 Sound on Feb 10, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
just because...
MARLEAU!!!1
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Feb 10, 2010 3:00 PM EST reply actions
Just for discussion
what about Plekanec, Stajan, Jokinen, Jason Williams, Jagr (who is rumoured to be returning to the NHL next year), Vasicek, Sergei Mozyakin, Alex Radulov, etc. (the last 4 are currently in the KHL)
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Moazyakin
has 139 goals over the past 5 years in Russia (between the KHL and RSL)… that’s in 267 games. He’s scoring at a 0.52 gpg pace for 5 years running.
Just by way of comparison, Radulov has 43 goals in 99 games over the past two years (0.43 gpg), Jagr has 47 goals in 100 games (0.47 gpg), and Yashin has 52 goals in 161 games (0.32 gpg).
I’m pretty sure he’s completely uninterested in coming to North America, but I’d take a flyer on him. He’s a LW not a centre though.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
That should have read Mozyakin.
and I didn’t realize Nashville retained Radulov’s rights in perpetuity… there’s rules about defected players… not sure what the term is on it though… I forget.
I think it relates to the same stuff that came up with Frogren coming over with us because he had been drafted by Calgary originally.
Either way, we could trade for Radulov’s rights and offer him money to play for us.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Radulov
He’s Predators’ property if he comes back.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
No, no, hell to the no, depends on the price, hahaha, no, Who, still under contract with Nashville
Resident Capologist
Toskala Cap Counter - RIP
see my above comments
He was drafted by Columbus in the 9th round back in 2002, and he’s 28 years old… and a bit undersized… but he can fucking shoot the lights out.
Watch for him at the olympics. He’ll be playing for the Russians.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
he is legit, so is Morozov (i have no idea bout his contract) but i would like it muchly if the Leafs could tempt either across the pond
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
except morozov is 32… so I’d be less happy with him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
less happy yes
but he is still a damned fine hockey player
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
just pay attention to him at the olympics
he obviously is unlikely to get top power play time… but you can watch Russia’s games and see if you like how he plays then.
He’s basically a Russian Phil Kessel.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
At the risk of getting flamed...
I’d consider Jokinen on a one year deal if the price was right. Classic pump and dump.
My biggest fear would be his crappy attitude rubbing off on the kids. That alone might be enough to pass even if he played for the minimum.
by The '67 Sound on Feb 10, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Chemmy floated this idea a while ago… I think most people here are on board with this idea.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Feb 10, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I would be one that isn’t.
Nothing about Jokinen appeals to me. I think he’d be a terrible fit and would just take up a roster spot that could be better served developing a young forward, and/or cap space that could be better served re-signing key youngsters and/or bringing someone in to address another specific need.
And I seriously doubt Jokinen would accept a one-year deal anywhere.
Resident Capologist
Toskala Cap Counter - RIP
yeah I have doubts about the fit from Jokinen’s perspective, but I think if we can give him the tougher minutes, and Bozak/Kessel some easier minutes, I’d be good with it.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Feb 10, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
If you have Kessel & Bozak together on another line, who are you playing with Jokinen to make him worth having?
Resident Capologist
Toskala Cap Counter - RIP
Well I would like to keep Ponikarovsky, but yeah I have no idea who would be on the other side.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Feb 10, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Oh and I'm not advocating for any of the above particularly
just mentioning some names of note … I included the KHL guys because the pool of talent looks thin as far as free agents go this coming season.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
If anything, Rickard Wallin has shown that offense doesn’t necessarily translate from Europe to the NHL
I think the SEL is a half-step below the KHL in terms of quality of competition.
Resident Capologist
Toskala Cap Counter - RIP
Yeah the KHL is not a good league
The scoring leaders are filled with NHL flameouts (Marcel Hossa, Mattias Weinhandl, Patrick Thoresen).
Yeah except
I’m comparing him to Jagr, Yashin, and Radulov… not Jaroslav Hlinka and Jan Hlavac. The KHL/RSL is far more competitive than the SEL from a scoring standpoint.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Regardless, do ANY of those guys you mentioned, besides maybe Williams, fit the type of player Burke would want to bring in? Doubtful.
Williams
is small. need size
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Big ice over there makes it different. How will he react to playing in traffic? Filatov says he loves it there because there is more time and space. The Olympics will be a good test on NA ice for those guys.
by Leaf in Habland on Feb 10, 2010 8:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well yeah
but I think the skill level could use a boost too… I’m just spit balling either way.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I hear ya about the spitballing.
Stefanovich plays wing
Champagne doesn’t look like a top 6 centre, based on his numbers in the Q
and Hanson looks like bottom 6 Centre at this point too. Hope I’m wrong, maybe he’ll be that guy next season.
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
as for size in the middle
we have Hanson, Champagne, Stefanovich… they’re all big.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
i thought Stefano was a winger? oh well
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
He is a RW
apparently I’m forgetful today…. but yeah Champagne and Hanson… they’ve got Hayes and Stefanovich and Stalberg for the wings… I’m not sure size will be a huge problem in the future.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
speaking of Stefanovich
monster week last week. From Jan 24th till now he has scored 8 goals and 11 assists for 19 points in 8 games.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
oh yeah
forgot about Paradis … he helps the size factor also. and yeah he has 6 goals in his last 6 games, plus another 2 assists.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Champagne has also scored 58pts in 52 games (27g, 31a)
not super star numbers but pretty decent
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Decent, but not first line NHL centre. hoping that changes.
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
no, he is probably Mitchells inevitable replacement
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
If he can skate better then Mitchell (balance, moreso than spped) I’ll be happy
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
He's amazing at faceoffs
and he’s good in front of the net. I don’t think Mitchell is particularly skilled at standing in front on screens and getting tip ins… he really could use some work on that.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
I really want Komarov to come over, the leafs need a class A agitator
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
yeah I said
he’s a Russian Kessel.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
size isnt everything, he wouldnt be coming to play on the 4th line
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
let’s be honest here… if Burke was obsessed with size would he have signed Kessel, Bozak, Grabovski, and Kadri?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
What part were you missing when I mentioned
Stalberg, Stefanovich, Paradis…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Hayes
Hanson, Champagne, Slaney, etc. etc. etc.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Kenny ryan isnt tall, but he is a stocky bugger
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
You could add
Dale Mitchell to that then.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
and Jerry D'amigo
they both fit the stocky, fast, able to score mold.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Dido too
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still worried
about his recovery from that injury. It’s amazingly hard to come back at the same level after a break like that.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
true, we really wont be able to gauge where he is at until the end of next season
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Since when is Burke just worried about
next year?
Next year’s team might very well be worse than this year’s to be honest.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
How can you possibly know
at this point… who is a long term option when half the prospects the Leafs had are still in junior or the NCAA?
Nobody knows which ones will pan out… not even the Leafs scouts and management.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
ah ok
well I wasn’t talking long term in that instance… I was thinking as stop gaps… I admit they aren’t going to find a big centre next year in all probability… but they do need some offense
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
My question is: why do we need stop-gaps in the first place? Because we don’t have our first round pick? The Leafs don’t have a first round pick regardless of how they finish in the standings.
I don’t think of any of the guys you mentioned as putting the Leafs over the top into a “contender” category. Not even into a “playoffs” category. So I think it’s pointless.
so what do they do then? Burn cheap contract years of all the kids? fill the wholes with broken down veterans?
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
I’d rather have cheap young talent learning on the job than one year rentals that just burn cap space.
As long as cap space is only burned for next year I’d rather keep the kids in cheap contracts for when we might actually contend.
by The '67 Sound on Feb 10, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
what kids? The only one who might have a year burned off is Kadri. And if he’s good enough to make the team, then he should play.
Kadri
That’s the one that matters. If he is going to be an impact player we want him to have the biggest impact possible while on his ELC because it lets Burke fill out the rest of the team with better players.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
If Kadri is good enough, he should play. This isn’t MLB, where you have to worry about arbitration very much. Even if he plays next year, his deal won’t end until 2013. The Leafs have 3 players signed past that season. If, by 2014, Kadri is good enough to demand a large contract, then I still don’t see a major problem. Then you’ve got a solid player with 3 years of NHL experience.
It’s like the Penguins last year. They were able to have a much stronger team because Evgeni Malkin was still on his last deal.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I understand what you’re saying, but if Kadri is good enough to play, you can’t worry about burning a year off his contract.
AHL
He’d be old enough next year to play at least a bit with the Marlies.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
next year he playes with the Marlies because he is too old for the CHL
he will get a chance to match up against men and mature his game before stepping into the bigs
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Not about Burke
Question was put to Mirtle above, I agree. My opinion. Do think a centre with size is impotant. And very difficult to find.
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Size – but at the bottom end.
I’m talking a big, skilled centre.
I always come back to Getzlaff as the example
Wendel Killer Joseph
oh well
good luck finding those… there aren’t very many guys with a game like Getzlaf, Thornton, etc.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 10, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, other than the Staals and Vinny I cant really think of too many other power forward scoring centers
Puns, Innuendo and Bad Spelling, Yes We Got That
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 10, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
not even about being a PWF
Just gotta be able to endure the physical stress of being a top line centre and put up the numbers – Perfect example was Sundin.
If you’re small, and can average 78 games/season (i’ll give you sick 4 days/season) and put up a PPG, that works for me too.
Don’t see a player like that on the Leafs other than maybe Bozak. At this point I dunno – I’m not sure if he can handle a full 82 games (78 with sick credits) or put up a PPG. I dunno, not a large enough body of work to estimate.
The size matters part just happens to help with durability.
Interesting to see how teams tend to obtain their first line centres.
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
"Don’t see a player like that on the Leafs other than maybe Bozak"
Or in their system, for that matter other than Kadri.
Here’s hoping Kadri is the real deal.
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
No kiddin’ but…
Don’t bother looking or trying?
see post below. Size helps with the durability, and we have enough -very skilled – but undersized centres. They need to be durable and put up a point per game. I’ll conceded it doesn’t matter how big they are, as long as they can endure a full NHL season, and put up the numbers to match.
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
not even about being a PWF
Just gotta be able to endure the physical stress of being a top line centre and put up the numbers – Perfect example was Sundin.
If you’re small, and can average 78 games/season (i’ll give you sick 4 days/season) and put up a PPG, that works for me too.
Don’t see a player like that on the Leafs other than maybe Bozak. At this point I dunno – I’m not sure if he can handle a full 82 games (78 with sick credits) or put up a PPG. I dunno, not a large enough body of work to estimate.
The size matters part just happens to help with durability.
Interesting to see how teams tend to obtain their first line centres.
Wendel Killer Joseph
Use Reply Please
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Happier?
(I did mean to, dropped the ball for some reason)
Wendel Killer Joseph
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 10, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yes :)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I just want to know what kind of shampoo Mickey Grabs uses. Get on that, Mirtle.
As per new community rules; all signature tags on PPP must contain the word "truculent".
(843): the red head has a bf
(1-843): just because there's a goalie doesn't mean u can't score
by Wrap Around Curl on Feb 10, 2010 5:39 PM EST reply actions
Yes
And who is Schenn’s barber and tailor.
Thanks, I look forward to mailbag #2
Willing to trade humour for cash, straight up.
Kaberle rebuttal
Well, look out, here it comes. I hope I’m too out of line here. Respect, Mr. Mirtle, but I have a few counter-points. I’m not sold on the need to trade Kaberle, and I’m not sure Burke is either.
“The Leafs appear to pretty much have their top five on the blueline figured out at this point”
Why can’t it be that they have their top-six D figured out? Kaberle, Komisarek, Beauchemin, Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, and Schenn is an awesome six-pack on the blueline. Why would you be in a rush to break that up? Unfortunately, Komi is gone for the season so the only way we’ll see these six suit up together is to not trade Kaberle in the off-season. Gunnarsson replaces White nicely, but he won’t replace Kaberle’s unique skill set. If you trade Kaberle, who’s your set up man on the point? Who carries the puck through the neutral zone against the trap? Who’s your sixth defenceman? Suddenly the puzzle pieces don’t fit together so well. If we’re building from the blueline out, with the acquisition of Phanuef I feel like Stage One is complete, but only if we keep Kaberle, otherwise there’s still a huge hole.
“with Kaberle’s minutes down into the 17, 18 minute range lately”
Kaberle’s Time On Ice last 8 games: 22:33, 21:44, 21:31, 19:18, 20:35, 15:20, 17:48, 20:53. I only see two games below 19 minutes. Still, the arrival of Phaneuf could be seen as an opportunity to lean on Kaberle a little less and give him a bit of a break since he’s been overworked for most of this season. I’m sure it wasn’t part of the plan to have Komisarek play less then half the season or for Jeff Finger to suck balls. Kaberle has still averaged 22:42 ice time this season, 2nd on the team only to Beauchemin (but not including White or Phaneuf). He deserves a rest and deserves to have some of the responsibility off his shoulders for a few games. Also, I think the Leafs are still figuring out what they’ve got in Gunnarsson. Obviously he’s good but he’s only played 21 NHL games. How much pressure can he handle? How many different situations can he play in? I suspect they’ll push Gunnarsson as much as they can from now until the end of the season to try to get a read on what they really have there. With the Leafs out of the playoff picture, it makes sense to give developing players more time on the ice.
“he’s produced points, but I can’t help but look at his QCMP and GA/60 at even strength”
Is it really so horrible? It honestly doesn’t look that bad (2.85) to me. It’s better then XLB (3.06) and much better then Finger (3.98) and within range of Schenn (2.67) and Beauchemin (2.62). That doesn’t scream DEFENSIVE LIABILITY GET RID OF THIS GUY! to me. Keep in mind that all of the GA numbers are skewed by the fact that they had a goaltender who lets in random shots regardless of quality. His +/-ON60 is 8th best on the team (forwards and defence) and that includes both newcomers Phanuef and Sjostrom. The only defenceman with a better +/-ON60 rating is Schenn, who also happens to have a lower QCMP rating. So stats-schmatz. Kaberle is awesome at what he does, not at WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO. He’s having his best offensive season in years – and doing it without Antropov, Kubina, McCabe, Tucker, or Sundin – but we’re going to fault him for not being quite good enough defensively. Too much.
“it’s time to move his salary for some help up front”
Seems like Kaberle’s contract is among the best values in the league. The difference between Kaberle (4.25) and Finger’s (3.5) cap-hit for next season is just 750,000. Think about that… If, as Kaberle’s agent, Rick Curran claims, Kaberle believes he’s “part of the solution” and wants to stay, isn’t that an indication that Kaberle’s next contract will also be better then market value if he stays in Toronto? Isn’t that good asset management to have players outperforming their contracts? With the NHL’s salary cap, every dollar saved on one contract can then be spent usefully on another. Kaberle has always seemed like a team-first guy and has never once come across like a megalomaniac superstar princess that requires special attention or adoration. Why would you want to get rid of a guy like that? Where the fuck is the loyalty?
Lastly, speaking of loyalty, honour, and integrity, which Brian Burke often does, do you think that what happened at last year’s draft – with the whole Kessel-for-Kaberle trade thing falling apart – was that at all professionally embarrassing to Burke? And do you think that if Kaberle handled the situation with class and dignity, which I imagine he did, and then showed up for camp and was the Leafs best player through the first month of the season until Kessel arrived, that Kaberle might have earned Burke’s respect just a little bit and that Burke might want to demonstrate some loyalty in the one situation where it really matters, with the team’s leading scorer and longest serving player? Just wondering.
by general borschevsky on Feb 10, 2010 8:20 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Aww dammit, I hope I’m NOT too out of line here. What a brutal start. Now no one’s gonna take it seriously. Sorry Kabby. I tried.
by general borschevsky on Feb 10, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
seriously general – god bless you. kabby for life.
we’ve seen all of 4 games from phaneuf and 30 from komisarek, but everyone’s already set to toss kabby aside for whatever we can get for him. where’s the fucking loyalty is right.
and who gives a shit about QCMP and GA/60 minute when he’s our leading fucking scorer and he’s only making $4.25M a year?? the hole that will be left if he goes will not be filled by a $4.25M 2nd line forward.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
My reasons for wanting to trade Kaberle
1. We have too much money tied up on the D. Blame Burke (mostly) for this, but he obviously did it for a reason, so take that for what you will. But too much means one of the big contracts has to go, and Kaberle is the obvious answer because of #2.
2. He fetches us the best return. We are a rebuilding team, and need players in their prime to help us by the time we’re reading to win. Kaberle can help us get those pieces. To me, it’s simple. If you aren’t being built around, you are expendable. Kaberle will not be the main piece by the time we’re ready to win it all, but…..
3. Who’s to say we can’t trade Kaberle for next year, then resign him when he’s UFA? At that time Beauchemin will only have one more year left (and Finger too), meaning they could be moved themselves if necessary, freeing up some cash to resign Kaberle (at a decent price of course), allowing him to be an integral additional piece if we are getting close to putting a contender together.
Listen, Kaberle is great. Quality player and person. But to me, if you aren’t the vital piece that’s going to play a role on this team in 4-5+ years, then why not ship them out to get someone who will be (be that prospects, young players or picks).
I like it
Should make it a fanpost :)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Cheers PPP. I was actually really nervous about posting this ‘cause I really like Mirtle and everyone here and I realize I’m flying off the handle a bit.
If Kaberle gets traded I hope it’s for a King’s Ransom, but I’d rather see him stay.
by general borschevsky on Feb 10, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
No problem
You can always edit it before making it a FanPost
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
flying off the handle is good sometimes. kabby’s earned that kind of passion from at least a few of us.
(apologies as well if i get carried away with my kabby defence sometimes. but he’s the only leaf i really have any sort of emotional attachment to now, i’m gonna be sad when he’s gone.)
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
How about
if we all make a solemn pact not to bash Kaberle when he gets traded…
I HATE it when fans of other teams do that (I am looking at you Habs/Sens)
We loved him while he was here, we shouldn’t hate him for being traded away from where he wants to be.
Sundin was a different situation – but any anger that I had for him (a short, but intense fiery anger) has long since past, leaving only the charred remains of my memories to sift through.
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Feb 11, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
General, nicely argued. Rec’d.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Feb 10, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Why compare Kaberle’s deal to Finger’s at all? If it looks good in comparison to one of the worst contracts in the league, it must be one of the best?
Beauchemin’s been logging the heaviest load all year, way more so than Kaberle, and still has better stats in the GA department than a guy who isn’t at all? They’ve removed Kaberle almost entirely from the PK and with good reason.
Kaberle’s Time On Ice last 8 games: 22:33, 21:44, 21:31, 19:18, 20:35, 15:20, 17:48, 20:53. I only see two games below 19 minutes.K, well here I call “fun with end points” because if we look at the last 13 games, there are seven games at 19:17 or lower. Not great for a $4.25-million man.
They’ve got Phaneuf in here to generate the offence now, and if the Leafs want to improve up front, they’re going to have to dedicate less salary to the blueline. Kaberle’s an asset that’s going to get you some return, either now or in the summer. Moving him, depending on the return obviously, likely makes this team better.
How else will you improve up front if you don’t trade anyone and there’s little to sign in free agency?
Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey
by James Mirtle on Feb 11, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Cheers
I still think the prolonged injury to Komisarek coupled with Schenn’s early struggles and Finger’s poor play meant that Wilson had to lean on Kaberle more then the GM had originally intended.
I’m not so sure that Phaneuf is here to “generate” the offence so much as complete it. He doesn’t generate many assists on the powerplay (career high in ’08 23, this season 8) but he does have a cannon for a shot, 5 PP goals this season, 16 in his rookie year, and 75 goals overall in less then 5 seasons is impressive. Meanwhile Kaberle (21 PPA this season, career high 45 in ’06) is one of the best set up men in the league. Seems like they would both benefit by playing together.
By the way, I wonder if anyone noticed that Kaberle’s last assist – on Kessel’s powerplay goal against the Sharks in the second period Monday – was the 40th of his season and the 400th of his career. I didn’t realize that until just now.
by general borschevsky on Feb 11, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Phaneuf’s an elite producer on the power play (or at least he has been until this season).
What they’ll really need to do is replace what White did if Kaberle’s moved.
Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey
by James Mirtle on Feb 11, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Completely Unrelated..
but while we’re on the topic of questions I have one for anyone out there who knows the answer. What do the numbers on the Leafs licence plates mean?
If you haven’t seen them they are generally something like: 98TO21 with a maple leafs logo beside
FIRESALE!!!1
BASEMENT DWELLER DEALS EVERYTHING MUST GO!
Welcome Dion, Giggy, Freddy.. don't get too attached to Lee or Alexei or Tomas
My guesstimate
The middle two letters deal with the personalization of the licence plate. TO = leafs, LN = loon, can’t remember others. They are always in the middle, so the numbers surrounding it are probably just the order they are handed out in increments. 98TO20 was probably given the person before the one you cite.
Yeah
That’s right.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I think the first 2 numbers are the year the plate was handed out? I’ve seen a ton of these before. (i.e. the first Leafs plate given out for 2010 would be 10TO01, im guessing)
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 11, 2010 6:20 AM EST up reply actions

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