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Tomas Kaberle

Kaberle081_medium

Well, for the fifth time in as many years, I'm finishing the LotD series (maybe - there's still the Brophy to do and I'd like a peek at the young'uns, so we'll see) with a recap that doesn't have anything to do with the playoffs.  I think it is now fair to say that this drought, completely aligned with the existence of the LotD posts, is entirely my fault.  I'm not dead sure what I would do instead of the LotD but clearly it needs to be something.  I don't want to completely abandon the concept, because even though this year got kind of taxing at times, it's still kind of entertaining.  Maybe a good rebranding is in order.

After a year that turned out to be about roster turnover more than just about anything, a good deal of focus this summer is going to be placed on the guy who doesn't (or at least didn't) want to go.  Kaberle has been traded twice in the past three seasons, netting the Leafs Jeff Carter, Philly's first-round pick, Phil Kessel and Boston's first - and yet he's still here and all but one of those other assets isn't.

I do think it's more than a little unfair, after all the angst surrounding players in various sports who leave this city, that a guy would be vilified for wanting to stay at all costs, but that seems to be the fate of Tomas Kaberle.

Star-divide

Tomas is not only the lone holdover from the JFJ era, he's the lone survivor of Mike Smith's tenure as GM.  He broke in with this team in 1998-99, the first year Pat Quinn was coach, and was soon part of a young trio on defense (with Berard and Markov) that I thought would be Leaf mainstays for a decade.  Those were exciting times - a team on the rise that made the final four twice, hit 100+ points with some regularity and were legitimate challengers for the Stanley Cup.

The Leafs' fortunes tumbled after the lockout ended, but Tomas, if anything, played better.  He hit for 67 points in 2004-05 - other than McCabe's 68 points the same season, this was the highest total since Salming patrolled the blue line.  He was one of a core of players the Leafs locked up in long-term deals - the building blocks of the eventual resurgence.

The resurgence never happened, of course.  Kaberle got his bell rung on a bad hit by Cam Janssens and that seemed to set him back.  That talented core became known not as the future but rather "the Muskoka 5" - a group of players with no-trade contracts who supposedly banded together to thwart a team rebuild.  Kaberle, in particular, was ripped (and still is) for vetoing a trade to Philadelphia that had young centre Jeff Carter and a first-round pick coming in return.  Last year at the draft, he was traded again, in a deal that fell apart when Brian Burke and the Bruins' Peter Chiarelli couldn't figure out whose pick was going where.

This summer, Kaberle looks to me to be a goner.  Burke has made mention of him signing an extension, but I can't really imagine that happening.  Kaberle will either want a raise or a new NTC and I don't really see either of those being available, not given the money already spent on the blue line and Burke's aversion to no-trade contracts.

He'll draw something on the trade market, though I'm not sure what.  Personally, I'd rather a good prospect than a first-rounder in the back half of a weakish draft. 
Kaberle could still be a good fit on a strong team.  He reminds me, if anything, of Larry Murphy in his last days here.  He has a skill set that doesn't really fit the team he plays on.  He's a passer on a team without a ton of finish, and he's never been the kind of defender that you anchor a defense with.  If he were to land with a team like Detroit, like Murphy did, they'll probably love him.

I'll be sad to see him go.  I like guys who have a bit of history with a team and once Kaberle is out of here, the career leader in games played by a Leaf becomes Nik Kulemin with 151 - tied with the aforementioned Larry Murphy, Dave Burrows and Rick Lanz.  Had Tomas managed four more goals, he'd have passed Iafrate, McKenny and McCabe and stood fourth overall in goals by a defenseman.  Post-Kaberle, the career lead in goals is again Kulemin, with 31, and the career leader on the blue line is actually Jeff Finger with 8.  I don't think I'll have to do a milestone watch for a while.

That's not to say that I don't think moving Kaberle is the right thing to do.  It's probably the best for everyone at this point.  I'm on board with most of the moves Burke made and I don't find this team even remotely as depressing as the one we were left with in 1991.  I don't even really care who Boston drafts with the pick.  The Leafs are young and have promise.  With a Kaberle deal, perhaps they will become moreso, and Kabs can get his groove back in a different environment.

---

001000387_medium
Tomas in happier days - via www.legendsofhockey.net

 


More Tomas in happier days - remember playoff hockey?



Tomas' stats:

 1994-95  HC Kladno Jr.  CzRep-Jr.  37   7   10   17 
 1994-95  HC Kladno  CzRep  4   0   1   1   0 
 1995-96  HC Poldi Kladno Jr.  CzRep-Jr.  23   6   13   19 
 1995-96  HC Poldi Kladno  CzRep  23   0   1   1   2   2   0   0   0   0 
 1995-96  Czech Republic  EJC-A  5   2   2   4   4 
 1996-97  HC Poldi Kladno  CzRep  49   0   5   5   26   3   0   0   0   0 
 1997-98  HC Velvana Kladno  CzRep  47   4   19   23   12 
 1997-98  Czech Republic  WJC-A  7   1   1   2   2 
 1997-98  St. John's Maple Leafs  AHL  2   0   0   0   0   0 
 1998-99  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  57   4   18   22   12   +3   14   0   3   3   2 
 1999-00  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  82   7   33   40   24   +3   12   1   4   5   0 
 2000-01  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  82   6   39   45   24   +10   11   1   3   4   0 
 2001-02  HC Vagnerplast Kladno  CzRep  9   1   7   8   4 
 2001-02  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  69   10   29   39   2   +5   20   2   8   10   16 
 2001-02  Czech Republic  Olympics  4   0   1   1   2 
 2002-03  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  82   11   36   47   30   +20   7   2   1   3   0 
 2002-03  Czech Republic  WC-A  7   0   7   7   2 
 2003-04  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  71   3   28   31   18   +16   13   0   3   3   6 
 2004-05  Czech Republic  W-Cup  4   0   1   1   0   3 
 2004-05  HC Rabat Kladno  CzRep  49   8   31   39   38   7   1   0   1   0 
 2004-05  Czech Republic  WC-A  9   1   3   4   4 
 2005-06  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  82   9   58   67   46   -1 
 2005-06  Czech Republic  Olympics  8   2   2   4   2 
 2005-06  Czech Republic  WC-A  9   1   5   6   31 
 2006-07  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  74   11   47   58   20   +3 
 2007-08  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  82   8   45   53   22   -8 
 2007-08  Czech Republic  WC-A  7   1   9   10   0 
 2008-09  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  57   4   27   31   8   -8 
 2009-10  Toronto Maple Leafs  NHL  82   7   42   49   24   -16 
 NHL/Leaf Totals  820   80   402   482   230   +27   77   6   22   28   24 

Brother of Frantisek
Played in NHL All-Star Game (2002, 2007, 2008, 2009)


The HHOF take on Tomas:

Only 18 years old, Tomas Kaberle was drafted 204th overall in 1996 NHL Entry Draft by the Toronto Maple Leafs. His father had been a Czech hockey representative and it was he who taught his sons the game of hockey. Tomas grew up in Kladno, 20 kilometers west of Prague. Kladno's most famous hockey talent is none other than Jaromir Jagr. But then Tomas Kaberle appeared in the training camp for the first time in 1997. He tested Canadian ice during two games with a farm team in St. John's, Newfoundland, but returned to the Czech Republic at the age of 19 to play 47 games for his old team Poldi Kladno, registering four goals and 18 assists.

In September 1998 he was back in Toronto. This time he garnered the attention of coach Pat Quinn, who put him through the hoops. His verdict actually came as a surprise to Kaberle. He was to stay with the team on a trial basis. He could not believe the news. And Pat Quinn did not leave him on the bench, sending him out onto the ice at every opportunity. It was a chance for Kaberle to refine his game. Kaberle played well and with time, he got more daring.

But the first season was not easy. He went through a crisis and suffered from fatigue. While he was taking a rest from the game, it began to look as if he might never see Stanley Cup playoff action. Ultimately this move, however, proved to be the right one. Kaberle, rested up and anxious to get back in the game, appeared in the Stanley Cup playoffs after all and played brilliantly. The Toronto Maple Leafs fought their way to the semi-finals where they were eliminated by the Buffalo Sabres.

From the start of the 1999-2000 season, Tomas Kaberle provided constant support for his team. He had acquired a healthy self-confidence and started collecting points. Though, like most defenceman, he earned his points mainly from passes, he even started scoring and is on his way to becoming one of the top defencemen in the league.

A member of the Czech Republic's Olympic Team in 2002, Kaberle would miss 13 games during the 2001-02 regular season before helping the Leafs reach the Eastern Conference Final against the surprising Carolina Hurricanes. In 2002-03 Kaberle suited up for all 82 games, establishing career highs in goals (11) and points (47).

In 2003-04, Kaberle played his 400th NHL game and surpassed the 200-point plateau. He spent the following season competing in Kladno due to the NHL lockout, and returned to the blue and white for the start of the 2005-06 season. That season, Kaberle tallied a career high 67 points and won a Bronze Medal representing Czech Republic at the 2006 Winter Olympics.

Aside from his Olympic experiences in 2002 & 2006, Kaberle represented his homeland at the 1998 World Junior Championships, the 2003, 2005, 2006 and 2008 World Championships the 2004 World Cup of Hockey.

Kaberle082_medium

 

Just as an aside, I've contemplated this for the LotD a couple of times - including today - but why give anyone ammunition they don't deserve?

Gaston71_medium

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As much as the Jordan Staal trade ideas seem to be a pipe dream, Staal has not scored more than 49 points ever in the NHL, which leads me to think that if Gonchar walks, there may bit a tiny bit of hope.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

49 points on the 3rd line with garbage wingers on a team withpretty much only garbage wingers

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s definitely the Staal brother I hate the least.

I am the truculence that flaps in the night!

by Jo4nny on Apr 12, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ive met them all
Marc is the best

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well that definitely settles it.

by njd.aitken on Apr 12, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s been playing 2nd line minutes with Malkin out.
I think his growth is stunted in Pittsburgh, he’s gotta get out from behind the superstars. 50 points from the back end could be more valuable to the Pens than from their 3rd line center.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah yes, forgot about the Malkin injury
Kid is money short handed though

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

MO-NEY

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Apr 12, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

this

i will keep banging this drum until it happens.

It’s a trade that helps both teams, I know it in my bones. The fact that its a wash money-wise makes it even easier.

Kabby can be their puck-moving 50+ point PP quarterback, and Staal can completely be a 70-point 1st line NHL centre if you give him enough ice time and PP time.

this can and should happen.

A good PK is Club Truculence's cover charge

by pevans on Apr 12, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agree. I like this more than the Wheeler scenario going on below.

by Five Minutes For Fighting on Apr 12, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Bruins would love Kaberle.

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 2:31 PM EDT reply actions  

your first and colbourn would get it done!

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um… No. How about Wideman?

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

nay
Wheeler and our 2nd back?

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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d do that. Wheeler will end up in Toronto anyways, I feel. The only reason he signed with Boston is beacuse he is friends with kessel.

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

done, get Burke and Chia on the phone

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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I knew Charelli, the Bruins would be much better ;)

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why would we want Wheeler?

He’s a 0.46 ppg player getting 2nd line minutes. Since Stalberg started getting 2nd line minutes post-deadline, he’s .55 ppg.

Wheeler’s senior year in the NCAA was significantly worse than Stalberg and not any better than Hanson’s. Even Caputi is younger and his AHL results at age 21 suggest he’s 2nd line material eventually.

Why would we want to pay $2-3MM for Wheeler when he’s not clearly superior to in-house options at one-third the price?

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Our top 6 next year will include Kessel, Bozak, Kulemin and Grabbo. I think Kadri and Stalberg are also likely, with Hanson, Caputi and even DiDo waiting in the wings. I don’t think we should trade for anyone unless they are clearly (1) cheaper, or (2) better, than one of our existing guys. There are lot of guys in the NHL who meet that description but I don’t see that Wheeler is one of them unless he brings a hell of a lot of “intangibles” that don’t show up on the scoresheet (and yes, the quotation marks mean I’m a big “intangibles” skeptic).

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wheeler isn’t that bad.

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not saying he’s bad, just that to me he looks comparable to Stalberg and much more expensive.

Teams kill their cap by chasing minor improvements at much bigger pricetags.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I doubt Wheeler will get more than two million.

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is twice what Stalberg costs.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, OK.

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or

Wheeler just hit a sophmore slump, after his buddy Phil Kessel was traded :P

Wheeler’s rookie season – 0.55 ppg.
Stalberg’s rookie season – 0.55 ppg.

Both played 3 seasons of NCAA prior to entering the NHL.

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Apr 12, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s funny that Blake Wheeler held out on Phoenix and signed in Boston only to have Boston lowball Kessel.

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by Chemmy on Apr 12, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

ball

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by Chemmy on Apr 12, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

that’s nuts

I am the truculence that flaps in the night!

by Jo4nny on Apr 12, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is funny

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s a ballsy comparison to make.

Actual size.

by Sergei Puckizin on Apr 12, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just to be clear—Stalberg is only .55 ppg in his last 20 games. Overall he’s .35 ppg. Wheeler is a more established NHL player but I don’t see him as necessarily an improvement going forward.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bringing in Wheeler wouldn’t necessitate Stalberg leaving at all. They could form 2/3rds of the 2nd line. Kadri/Grabbo in the middle. Could happen. Wouldn’t be right pissed

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Apr 12, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

But then one of Kadri or Grabbo are out. Grabbo is more expensive so I’d be open to dealing him if we land a Wheeler-type.

The ones I really want to avoid, but am afraid we’ll take a run at, are Sharp ($3.9MM) and Byfuglien ($3.0MM).

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

how much term does sharp have left? i like him alot as a player and if he only has a year or two left i dont think thats too bad… fingers money could be turned into sharp

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

2 more years at 3.9 mil

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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sharp, IMHO, is not much an upgrade over Stajan.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

he is an excellent complimentary piece, but thats not what the leafs need

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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats why he fits nicley in chicago.
Im more excited about the summer in 2011 than this one to be honest, i’ll be very surprised if the leafs acquire any significant players this off season that fit the mould of young, gritty and relativley cheap

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, other than the much anticipated Kaberle trade I dont see any major moves, if Kabby nets a half decent packaged I will be satisfied with running out the kids next year

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea meto

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me three

Are you listening Burke? Leafs fans don’t want you to rush the re-build and screw our cap for 2011! We’re patient!

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea! someone call leafs lunch and let him know!

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh

I know the Fans get the blame for the “re-tool” instead of “re-build” but I have a feeling we’re just scapegoats.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

They claim we’re not patient enough for a longer rebuild, but does anyone really think ticket prices or attendance would drop much? I don’t.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Apr 12, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

MLG sold out throughout the 80s. ACC will continue to do so for the foreseeable future (and probably the unforeseeable future too).

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

it’s not fan driven at all, it’s boardroom driven, and I would like to know why. Unfortunately, it’s not the type of question that’s easy for even MSM types with access to get an answer to.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did anyone see Jeff Simpson’s moronic piece Saturday? Brunt actually de-bunked that particular piece of nonsense this morning.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed I did not – what was it about?

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Toronto as loser-ville

Trotted out the old “MLSE won’t try to build a winner because the sheep will always show up” nonsense even though he acknowledged a sentence later that NOT showing up hasn’t helped the Jays.

I refuse to link to it on principle. Stick to politics, douchebag.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m with you on not linking to it.
That’s such crap.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

We should have a rule

No linking to douchebag articles. Just describe it for mocking/rebuttal purposes but don’t reward them with hits.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

yah, but feel free to quote the really silly parts so we can destroy them

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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess my positions, assumes Grabbo is out. Not sure why I made that jump just yet.

Wendel Killer Joseph

by MapleLeafMole on Apr 12, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

because we arnt likely to get a deal that good for Kaberle

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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love Kaberle.

I just preemptively hate that wherever he ends up he’s going to start shooting the puck and will score 30 goals/season.

I am the truculence that flaps in the night!

by Jo4nny on Apr 12, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Jeff Freaking Carter…

/sigh

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Apr 12, 2010 2:54 PM EDT reply actions  

would probably have been traded for something silly anyway. Might have been him instead of Steen going to Stempniak.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Apr 12, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh wow, my heart just felt pain at that thought

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

…. was playing horribly at the time of the trade deadline, which is why philly was so interested in moving him. something like 30 pts up to that point in the season. i think the shame of being such obvious trade bait got him playing better. who knows.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Apr 12, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve pined for that trade since it first came to light. this isn’t 20/20 hindsight…

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Apr 12, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

The day I heard Carter and a first I said “go go go go go go”.

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by Chemmy on Apr 12, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

i probably would have got behind that trade as well, but at the time it wasn’t like the flyers were offering a 30-goal scorer. he was really struggling.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Apr 12, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

So was Kaberle.

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by Chemmy on Apr 12, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

he certainly had more of a track record than carter.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Apr 12, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

rick…..nash?

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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rick Nash rules

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

A passer on a team with no finish… amen. I’d prefer him to stay, but I’ve made my peace that he’s probably a goner. Mark my words – Tomas is going to go on to have a great ending to his career somewhere, and we’re going to get some pick or prospect back that never turns into anything of value.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Apr 12, 2010 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

A passer on a team with no finish
That sounds like Savard

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

and $4.25 million to play with

on a forward who can

A good PK is Club Truculence's cover charge

by pevans on Apr 12, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the right situation Kaberle can and I expect will still flourish. The problem is Burke signed too many expensive D-men and Kaberle’s the only one that’s really move-able if you assume Burke’s ego will prevent him from trading Beauchemin or (please) Komi.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Komisarek was starting to look really good when he hurt his shoulder.

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by Chemmy on Apr 12, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

i really think Komisarek will be a big time difference maker next year, kessel looked fine after shoulder surgery, so i expect komi to bounce back as well. His physical prescence and shot blocking plus a positive effect on the PK will be a welcomed addition

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will go out on a limb and say unless the cap goes way up, there is no way Komi can justify a $4.5MM contract. It’s practically impossible for a D man with zero offensive game to do so. He’s paid like a Top 2 D-man which he has never been and likely will never be.

That said I agree he should be a valuable contributor next year. He’ll just be an overpaid one.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea, he’ll be overpaid. Not too many players who sign as UFA’s arent.
Still, he’ll be an important part of the team next season

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with all that. That’s why I generally oppose UFA signings unless it’s for “last piece of the puzzle” type situations.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree with your statement only because I think it’s poor management to completely disregard an important avenue for talent acquisition.

Resident Capologist

by clrkaitken on Apr 12, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're the capologist!

I’m not disregarding it, I just think the majority of GMs are overly enamoured of it. I would bet that more than half of the UFA contracts signed post lockout were regretted by the team before the deal was over. Just look at the Leafs. What’s our batting average on UFA contracts? 25%?

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can’t include Fletcher of JFJ signings! Fletcher was senile at the time and JFJ was incompetent.

by Five Minutes For Fighting on Apr 12, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s not a sentiment that’s exclusive to free agency.

There are plenty of draft picks that every GM would love a do-over on, and plenty of trades that GMs would want a mulligan on.

Obviously, you’ve got to be smart, and you can’t get into situations in free agency where you start paying first line money for third line players. But you also can’t say “I’m not building my team through X, unless we are Y in the standings and we need Z to contend.” because it gives every other GM an advantage on keeping you from getting to where you want to be.

Resident Capologist

by clrkaitken on Apr 12, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I agree there should be no blanket rules.

But I don’t think enough GM’s consider value over replacement player in UFA signings. Way too often they spend 300% more on a guy whose maybe 25% better than an in-house replacement. Save that money and overpay only when it offers a MAJOR improvement.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

hockey needs a VORP stat

A good PK is Club Truculence's cover charge

by pevans on Apr 12, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know

Almost impossible to do but the concept clearly should play an even bigger role in hockey than baseball given the cap.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

GVT

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by Chemmy on Apr 12, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s an interesting one but I think its creator would agree because of the multifaceted nature of hockey (vs the binary nature of baseball: hitter vs. pitcher) it’s impossible to be as accurate as things like VORP or WAR.

Though GVT did say Toskala was the worst player in the NHL this year IIRC.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was a number 2 d-man on Montreal. Also, Regehr makes a little over $4 million on Calgary and that seems fair and justifiable. Komisarek is probably overpaid (he was a UFA), but it isn’t anything totally egregious.

by Five Minutes For Fighting on Apr 12, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

In what year was he 2nd in TOI? By my recollection he was always 3 or 4.

Regehr, to me, is clearly a better player than Komi, particular since he hasn’t had 2 straight years derailed by shoulder problems.

It will be interesting to see what Volchenkov gets this summer.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe TOI was lower because he didn’t play powerplay, but are you actually going to say Hamerlik is a better defenceman!?

And we can only hope Komisarek’s shoulder problems are rectified after surgery and he’ll come back as the good defenceman he once was.

by Five Minutes For Fighting on Apr 12, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, didn’t mean to say you said Hamerlik was better, but that would be the next big d-man on Montreal.

by Five Minutes For Fighting on Apr 12, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think offensive contribution matters too. Hamrlik got more TOI than Komi in 07/08 at ES, so apparently Montreal’s coaches thought he was better than Komi.

I think a top pair D-man should not be one dimensional. Komi is.

Hamrlik is actually another great example of overpaying a UFA.

by The '67 Sound on Apr 12, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dislike Komasarik

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea well lucic can suck it! ;)

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Lucic over Komisarek. I’m slowly accepting Komi as a Leaf but I downright hated his guts when he played for MTL. Like, I hated Komisarek. With the fiery passion of a thousand suns.

I am the truculence that flaps in the night!

by Jo4nny on Apr 12, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m with ya

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

A good PK is Club Truculence's cover charge

by pevans on Apr 12, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t understand your reasoning at all. You admit that Kaberle is a passer on a team with no finish. You admit that he doesn’t fit in here.

He will walk as a UFA and we will get nothing. Under your plan we’d all get to enjoy watching Kaberle play 82 games and signing somewhere else on July 1st 2011.

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by Chemmy on Apr 12, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

kaberle is so gone, i dont see any chance of him coming back

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, the Bruins would love him

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

1st round pick and a top 6 forward please :)

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bruins first rounder, Sobotka, and Hunwick?

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

like I said, Wheeler and our second (IE a very high first) for Kaberle, I doubt we do much better

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

it would be nice to not have kaberle burn us 6 times a year though

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

we’re already gonna get burned by Rask and whoever the Bruins draft this year, might as well compound it all on one team

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m ok with this plan.

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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 12, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a steal in my mind.

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree..

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

in that case we want your second too!

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

don’t forget that Rask kid, he’s phenomenal

I am the truculence that flaps in the night!

by Jo4nny on Apr 12, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

pfft, flash in the pan.

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

better trade for him quick, then

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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 12, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

They ain’t getting Tuukka.

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

been there done that

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed

i feel history with vindicate the Pogge bet. Somehow.

A good PK is Club Truculence's cover charge

by pevans on Apr 12, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

screw boston, i want jordan staal

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

adjusts blue tinted glasses

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think everyone wants him

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

true… its like the opposite of calgary. the bums go west and the good ones go to boston

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

why oh why must my best friend be a Bruins fan….

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh, my uncle is a bruins fan. he never shuts up about the effin trade

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’re EVERYWHERE

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 12, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

O6 Team

who once had the greatest player in the NHL play for them… yeah. Lots of Bruins fans out there.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

and I met him! for like 30 seconds but still awesome

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 12, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, you are just in a lot of places
Leaf fans, now WE are everywhere

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like cockroaches

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 12, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

we can survive a nuclear holocaust

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you need proof, just check out the season we just went through

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

how else would we have survived the Leaf-o-caust that was teh JFJ era?

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ye afraid…
e are invading you!

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Be afraid…
We are invading you!

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

at least it’s not ottawa or montreal.

Actual size.

by Sergei Puckizin on Apr 12, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s primarily emotional attachment. Still, having no finish now doesn’t mean we’re never going to have any finish, and never have any use for him. If he was 36 or 37 I’d be shipping him off for sure, but I still think we can have a use for him in the relatively short term.

And I’m not saying I want him to walk for nothing. If Burke realizes there’s no chance to re-sign Tomas for something reasonable, then by all means move him and try to at least get something.

I know the reality is we have to move a D and kabby’s the most likely to generate interest, so he’s a goner. Doesn’t mean I have to like it.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Apr 12, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’ll definitely bounce back because he’ll have the mental side sorted and he won’t be playing for a team that’s being built in a way that neutralises a lot of his strengths.

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by PPP on Apr 12, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

if kabba was on detroit, washington, pitt, chicago or san jose hed be considered one of the best in the game.

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Apr 12, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one’s saying he’s a bad offensive defenseman. He’s atrocious in his own end but he’s a valuable player which is why I want to move him for assets.

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by Chemmy on Apr 12, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we still had

A clutch goaltender who is top 5-10 in the league and can win games single-handedly for us… then I would not be advocating a Kaberle trade.

Since we are no longer lucky(read-traded Rask) enough to have that option, Kaberle’s cost/benefit ratio is now on the way up.

He should flourish on a team with a strong goaltender that can mask his defensive liabilities.

All that said, I will miss him and wish him well.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Apr 12, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll believe Rask can win games single handedly when he isn’t playing behind the best defensive unit in the league.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boston having the best defensive unit in the league is arguable… unless you count Chara AS the defensive unit.

“Get outta here or I’ll call the Brute Squad”
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"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Apr 12, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m basing it on stats. Lowest # of goals against in the NHL for the 2nd year in a row.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hard to compare between conferences though. Just because Boston let in the least amount of goals doesn’t necessarily = best defensive unit.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Apr 12, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

two years in a row speaks to a system and personell

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

that

is the rub.

he reminds me a lot of dan boyle. Put him on the caps and he’d be keeping up with Mike Green.

A good PK is Club Truculence's cover charge

by pevans on Apr 12, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its really sad to imagine that the Leafs could of managed to have Carter and Kessel in the lineup had the Kaberle trade gone smoothly.

The Leafs definately need to get a top 6 forward prospect with top 3 potential for Kaberle. I like the idea of Jordan Staal in the Leaf enviroment where he would be able to show his stuff. Although I don’t think the pens would be a fit for Kaberle with their other young offensive dmen.

by Brandon Slopack on Apr 12, 2010 5:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Welcome

Thanks for joining. The pens have Goligoski and Letang. They’re set at the position I think.

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by PPP on Apr 12, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve read that Goligoski really struggled without Gonchar this year and is overrated.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pens fan here, jumping in

Not sure what you mean by “without Gonchar.” The two aren’t typically paired with each other. He replaced Gonchar last year when he was out for that extended period of time. Goligoski has been seen as the guy being groomed to take Gonchar’s place on the PP once Gonch heads out. He’s definitely struggled and made some rookie mistakes, and he’s a weak-link on what I think is a fairly average blueline this year. To me, it seems like he lost a lot of confidence after an injury back in October/November.

by walkon on Apr 12, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

hrm

I thought he played on the PP with Gonchar, and Letang was the head of the 2nd unit PP. I’m mistaken.
Do you feel comfortable letting Gonchar walk and giving Goligoski his offensive minutes?

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

ahhh

Oh, okay, yes he’s typically on the PP with Gonchar. The PP has definitely struggled without Gonch, but that’s not all on Goligoski’s ability on the point. It’s been bad all year, with or without Gonchar — I distinctly remember a Pens/Leafs game where it was going to be a battle of bad-PP vs. bad-PK — and it always seems like everyone is just trying to set each other up with nice passes. In the beginning it did seem like Goligoski was deferring passes to Sid and/or Geno for them to score, but he has gotten off that in recent months. Gonchar has a great ability to settle things down, but I feel like the whole unit needs an overhaul in the sense of their mindset, and for them to get much more aggressive.

Strictly on the fact that the PP only seems to operate under Gonchar, I’m not fully comfortable in letting him walk. The defense as a whole has really struggled in the post-Olympic period though — a lot of bad turnovers against Washington and Detroit in March, and the added fact that the Islanders were allowed to come back from a 4 goal deficit last night.

by walkon on Apr 12, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

so if Gonchar DOES walk (and to be honest, I’m not convinced the Pens will do that – by all accounts, he has been a large part in helping Malkin to adjust to North America, and frankly I think Gonchar should finish his career in Pittsburgh) then you could be in the market for a defenseman who is an excellent PP quarter back (Leafs’ PP difficulties this year not withstanding)?

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm, it sounds as though you’re trying to sell me on Kaberle, aren’t you? ;)

by walkon on Apr 12, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no idea what you’re talking about………….

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oi hate the Pens

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by bestbostonsports on Apr 12, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is this Staal talk even possible? Has Pittsburgh hinted at trading Staal at all?

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Apr 12, 2010 5:31 PM EDT reply actions  

nope

hence pipe-dream

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not even close.

It’s the same as our Bobby Ryan talk.

A dream most of us realize will never ever happen.

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by nhlcheapshot on Apr 12, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

we should go after Crosby instead, or Toews

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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 12, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hear Crosby is a locker room cancer. They should salary dump him on us.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Apr 12, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bobby “35 goals this year” Ryan

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by SkinnyFish on Apr 12, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

They also hesitated on trading Carter to FLA for Tomas Vokoun. I think they’ll keep him.

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by PPP on Apr 12, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

That ridiculous. Vokoun for Carter? Get out Jeff.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Apr 12, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carter + for Vokoun but yeah. Then he breaks his foot.

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by PPP on Apr 12, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

so um, here's a question:

why the hell does philly keep trying to trade Jeff Carter?

A good PK is Club Truculence's cover charge

by pevans on Apr 12, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Florida wanted Carter for Vokoun, but Philly didn’t want to trade him. So Philly wasn’t actually trying to trade Jeff Carter in that situation. That was my interpretation.

by Five Minutes For Fighting on Apr 12, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vilified for wanting to stay eh?

I’ll always wonder what the Leafs could have got for Sundin in they traded him at the deadline. Don’t get me wrong, Sundin is and will always be my favourite hockey player, I dropped almost $300 on a jersey with his name on the back. I suppose Ill always just believe that he really believed we would make the playoffs that year. I don’t know how far he thought we would get though…

by BlindSight on Apr 12, 2010 6:16 PM EDT reply actions  

all I learned from that – and Sundin’s subsequent signing in Vancouver – is that Mats should never be GM of a team.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sundin doesn’t strike me as a person who will ever involve himself in hockey operations in the future, like Messier or Yzerman.

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by bkblades on Apr 12, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I get the same impression. Which is wise, because I really think he shouldn’t.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Apr 12, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mats should have gone at the deadline or re-signed cheap in Toronto to back up his talk.

What’s done is done and he gave us enough that I can forgive him but his exit was ugly.

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by Chemmy on Apr 12, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

ugly exits are maple leaf specialties. who’s the last leaf player of any prominence that left on a positive note? i seriously can’t think of one.

and rumour has it mats was interested in talking contract, but burke wasn’t. who knows.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Apr 12, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Martin Skoula.

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by nhlcheapshot on Apr 13, 2010 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wendel v3.0

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by 1967ers on Apr 13, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

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