Toronto Maple Leafs Sign Philippe Paradis
by PPP on Apr 2, 2010 1:44 PM EDT
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The Toronto Maple Leafs have signed Philippe Paradis to a professional contract. He will report to the Toronto Marlies now that Shawinigan has been eliminated from the QMJHL playoffs. RDS reported on his signing this morning:
L’attaquant des Cataractes de Shawinigan Philippe Paradis a signé son premier contrat professionnel avec l’organisation des Maple Leafs de Toronto.
Premier choix des Hurricanes de la Caroline en juin 2009, les droits de Paradis avaient été échangés aux Maple Leafs en retour de Jiri Tlusty.
Paradis s’est rapporté ce matin aux Marlies de Toronto de la Ligue Américaine
He'll be reporting to the Toronto Marlies today and could possibly be in the lineup. This works well because I will be at the game with Eyebleaf. Paradis was acquired in December from the Carolina Hurricanes for Jiri Tlusty. Hockey's Future has the following scouting report:
A mixture of physical presence and scoring skill, Paradis is an attractive prospect. He possesses a hard shot and has the ability to make room for himself and his teammates on the ice. Paradis isn't a player to back down from a challenge. Already an intriguing medley of grit and ability, if Paradis gets faster and stronger, he could become a dominant force in the QMJHL.
His development range is 4.5 to 6.5 which means that he'll likely be anywhere from a top 6 Marlie to a third liner on the Leafs. Below is video of Brian Burke the day of the trade discussing Paradis. He describes Paradis as having good foot speed, proper levels of truculence, and as a prototypical power forward.
Chemmy, in keeping with his usual optimism, politely disagrees with Burke's assessment:
It's good that we signed useless guys like Brayden Irwin to protect our useless but younger prospects like Paradis.
His statistics definitely do not blow anyone away but as has been noted before the cheapest way to fill out a team's bottom two lines is to develop those player within. Paradis' playoffs were a rather short affair as Shawinigan went out in six but he did have a decent impact based on CarlPeelash's playoff review:
Philippe Paradis, LW, Shawinigan Cataractes - 1st round, 27th overall in 2009 (CAR)
Paradis and the Cataractes were eliminated in six games by Victoriaville, with the former 1st rounder picking up three points in those six games. He also tied for 5th among Q forwards in hits, dishing out 18.
At the time of the trade Carolina Hurricanes fans were pretty surprised that the team had given up on Paradis so quickly after taking a flyer on him in the first round. Below there's a video from the draft.
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I don’t necessarily agree with the way Hockey’s Future “rates” prospects because there is definitely a lot more to it than just a number and a letter.
That said I do somewhat agree with their assessment of Paradis, 3rd line grinder type who could chip in a few goals when needed…. It would be nice to see him develop into something a little more though.
I never suggested we needed it necessarily…. but hey, filler guys to hold roster spots until the Kadri’s and the DiDomenco’s come up are always needed, and save us from having to spend money on free agents to get them.
Sorry, don’t know how that came across….my point wasn’t really against yours, more like thinking out loud.
Guess I’m still a little bitter over the Tlusty trade. Looking at our prospects/young players I see an emphasis on big truculent players Burke loves, but a minority of players with high end skill like Tlusty could be.
Not saying Tlusty will be a superstar or anything, I just fail to see how we couldn’t get more for him (a PPG player in the AHL) than Paradis (a less than PPG in the Q)
The thing is, I don’t really miss Tlusty all that much…. He couldn’t translate his AHL success to the NHL here, and he wasn’t exactly tearing things up in Carolina either (unless something has changed I haven’t checked up in a while). I think he will probably be one of those guys that is an AHL star but just couldn’t do it in the NHL.
Definitely one way to look at it.
With my rose-coloured glasses though, I see a still young guy (not sure how old, and not looking it up, but definitely no older than Bozak et al.) who was ruined by Maurice and JFJ. With proper seasoning I still think he could be a player, and this season I thought woulda been perfect for him to play with minimal pressure.
That said, there were murmurings he wasn’t going to resign in TO at the end of this season when he’s RFA, so maybe Burke didn’t want to lose an asset for free.
Tlusty is 22.
He played 18GP for Carolina and had a goal and five assists.
In Albany (CAR’s AHL affiliate) he has 6G 6A in 12GP.
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Tlusty is the definition of “tweener” – too good to stay in the NHL, not good enough to stick in the NHL.
Would love to know what Tlusty might have turned into if the Leafs had kept him with the Marlies instead of having him play 9 minutes a night under Maurice with the occasional stint in the pressbox.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
too good to stay in the NHL
*AHL
Boo hoo!
by Chris Stoikoff on Apr 2, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I prefer to call players like him AAAA.
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I don’t see how one can make that definitive a judgment about a 22 year old. In all likelihood Tlusty will not be a Top 6 forward. But he certainly could be. I can’t bother to look it up now but I’m pretty confident one could come up with a VERY long list of tp 6 NHL forwards who did nothing by age 22.
There is virtually no chance Paradis becomes a Top 6 forward and I would say there’s a better chance Tlusty is a 2nd liner than Paradis is a 3rd liner. Based on his profile he looks like an AHL 2nd liner, NHL 4th at best.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 2, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m pretty confident one could come up with a VERY long list of tp 6 NHL forwards who did nothing by age 22.
And a longer one of 22 year olds who would go on to do nothing/fade from the NHL.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Well obviously. It’s pretty easy to just say ‘95% of prospects aren’t going to amount to anything’.
The truth is, no one knows definitively if a player is going to succeed or not, especially when they’re still a teenager or in their early 20s . People like to toss out certainties like “Kulemin’s ceiling is a 3rd line winger” (heard around these parts plenty last season) and other such BS, but none of us really have a clue. Seriously – we’re Leaf fans, watching young talent develop isn’t really our comfort zone.
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I have repeatedly said (since they drafted him) that Kulemin had a higher top end than a 3rd liner in the NHL.
As for Paradis’ game, I haven’t seen him play a single shift so I have no idea where his skill level is at in comparison to his peers. For that reason alone I don’t think I’d bother to venture him as a future success at the NHL level.
I don’t understand why Burke would trade a 1st rounder for another teams’ 1st rounder if he is going to plateau nowhere.
You don’t give up assets for nothing in the NHL… theoretically the trade should work for both parties. The fact that we aren’t sure Paradis is going to develop into anything meaningful doesn’t mean he won’t. Odds are the Leaf scouts liked him for some reason, and Burke was convinced they had half a clue. He listens to his scouts, so if we don’t agree with the assessment, maybe they’re the guys we should be wondering about.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
My understanding is Tlusty asked for the trade. Perhaps Paradis was the best value Burke could get in return.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
That does reduce the value
But I fail to see how trading for a 1st round pick from the previous year’s draft is “low” value.
If that were the case, maybe he should have traded for a more impressive, later round pick?
I also am not certain how low the value is for 22 year old ppg AHL players, even when they request a trade.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I think, and this is just a guess, that Paradis is considered “low value” because he was an off-the-list suprise pick by Carolina and his counting numbers are just ok.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
So at 22 Tlusty still could be something and Paradis at 19 won’t amount to anything?
Since you got that crystal ball going, what’s the 6/49 numbers for tomorrow night?
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
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by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Apr 2, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a bit of a problem with this logic.
What the hell is it based upon?
If we’re going purely on “chances” at this point, I think the only odds you’d have to discuss wrt either player is that of a first round prospect making the NHL.
Paradis was selected later in the draft, but both he and Tlusty were 1st rounders, that gives them better odds of making the NHL than most.
As for knowing anything when a player is 19 vs. a player at 22… it’s a huge reach to determine a kid’s fate at this stage of things. Let’s remember, Paradis DOES have some NHL level abilities. He leads one of the 3 Canadian major junior leagues in hits, and he has a definite physical aspect to his game on the forecheck. That’s something that will take him somewhere in all likelihood.
Tlusty has a lot of skill, and a ticket to the KHL if he wants it. He might never make waves on this side of the pond.
I really don’t think anyone can clearly say what’s going to happen in either case on the basis of their production so far. Tlusty has given every indication, at a very young age mind you, that he’s too good for the AHL. He just needs to find a comfort zone in the NHL to make his mark.
Paradis is still in the QMJHL, so I’m not sure we can argue his NHL abilities without giving him a chance to develop at this point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Apr 3, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Tlusty had some good offensive potential, but he never showed any kind of effort while he was in Toronto. His upside could be great, but he was never going to see it here. The moment he stepped on the ice for pre-season and gave a half-assed effort on a backcheck is when I knew that.
He hasn’t been doing well in Carolina either, so it’s not as if he turned into Brad Boyes yet.
Boo hoo!
by Chris Stoikoff on Apr 2, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
And three gives us a full line
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by PPP on Apr 2, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure
But that ignores what D. Mitchell, Jimmy Hayes, D’Amigo et al. may turn out to be, which I expect will be in the similar mold as to the aforementioned players.
Like I said above, just don’t see how we couldn’t get more than just this kid for Tlusty. Hopefully I’m proven wrong and this deal turns out great, or at least a wash.
Tlusty is supposed to be a skill player and he has 6 points in 20 games with Carolina. He’s an AHL superstar (ie Jason Krog).
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by PPP on Apr 2, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You might be right, I just think it’s too early to state that. He just turned 22 (I relented and looked it up) and has more NHL games than AHL games played.
I think he got ruined by Maurice/JFJ, and could become the player we all hoped with proper seasoning, maturity and confidence.
I’d almost rather take a stable prospect with realistic expectations over a “could-be” crapshoot. The former doesn’t lead you into Blake-esque contracts.
Guess that's where we differ
I’d take the 22 year old, PPG AHL player who may or may not put it all together than the grinder who gives you a solid days effort but at the end of the day his only contribution will be digging in the corners, the occasional fight and some hits. Those players are a dime a dozen, and I’ll put them up off the waiver wire. The high-end prospect that has the potential to be a star in the league is harder to come by. That’s why I was happy we took Stefanovich.
Our system (and team) is littered with 3rd and 4th liners. Guess I just strive for some skill to go with that grit.
Tlusty’s upside is definitely higher but I think that he was starting to get pushed out, wasn’t putting it together at the NHL level (partly because of JFJ/Maurice), and he might not have re-signed.
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by PPP on Apr 2, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless Hanson somehow keeps up with Bozak and Stalberg. He looks good there.
Not Liking Nikolai Kulemin Means You Have No Soul
I really like Hanson’s play, the guy gives a full effort every night. He’s had pretty terrible luck in the offensive zone this year. He doesn’t have the greatest hands, but he still should have been able to score at least a few this year. It’s like goalies have a Hanson-radar and are always making gave saving stops against him.
His luck will turn.
Boo hoo!
by Chris Stoikoff on Apr 2, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I was serious about Irwin. It’s good that we’re signing low cost bodies to allow us to develop younger talent without throwing it into the NHL.
Irwin and Paradis just don’t seem like important pieces.
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Important in terms of putting up points? No.
But if one of those guys can crack the 4th line then the cap space would be important.
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by PPP on Apr 2, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I don’t see either of them as even fourth liners.
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Anyone know Irwin’s cap hit? Given the bonuses required to land NCAA UFAs, I’m not sure they’re the best way to economically fill a 4th line.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I don’t, but I’m wondering if his second contract will be less money. How much is Hanson’s contract for? Don’t we have to re-sign him this summer?
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by Karina on Apr 2, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Capgeek has Irwin at $900k w/o bonuses for this season and next (contract burned this year for playing that 1 game)
Also has Hanson this year at $925k (including all potential bonuses, probably earned much less than that)
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This is kind of exciting. This prospect is such a wildcard right now. Could be good, could be terrible, who knows!
Tlusty wasn’t a bad prospect, and I can’t see Burke just giving him away. If there is one thing I think we’ve seen from Brian is that he at least does him homework before moves (not including Kubina salary dump trade).
Lets wait and see before we pass judgment on the Kid
Can’t wait to hear about what you see tonight
Hopefully he’s playing!
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by PPP on Apr 2, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Leafs signed him and it’s not an ATO why not throw him into the fire for a game like Irwin? Or is it different cause Paradis is a CHLer thus there is no need to burn a year?
Not Liking Nikolai Kulemin Means You Have No Soul
I think with the CHLer it’s 10 games so they could throw him in. Probably because he’s younger.
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by PPP on Apr 2, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i am very interested to see how Paradis looks as a Leaf
in 3 to 4 years time. Maybe more…
The kid just turned 19. No sense in getting anxious now.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 2, 2010 2:53 PM EDT reply actions
I’m wondering if the Leafs aren’t looking to convert Paradis to defense.
He’s a big kid, hits hard, has a big slapshot and he’s a smooth skater but he doesn’t have much of a scoring touch. Suggests defense to me.
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I guess those skills could also give you a good shutdown player a la John Madden, Moen Pahlsson etc.
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Would fit right in with the Leafs moves toward icing a team of at least 15D.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
It’s definitely possible, but doesn’t help us right now with the logjam on defense
Maybe a few years down the road. I’m still not sold on Paradis ever becoming anything at the NHL level
Boo hoo!
by Chris Stoikoff on Apr 2, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
There might not be that much of a logjam on defence.
Exelby will be gone and everyone assumes Kaberle and Finger will be somewhere else too. Leaving Phaneuf, Schenn, Komisarek, Beauchemin and Gunnarsson as the core of the D going forward. Even if we were to keep either Kabby or Finger, we’d still be looking for a 7th D-man.
In any case, it’s not like the system’s crammed to overflowing with prospects.
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Irwin getting another shot against Boston. Dunno if I agree with Wilson but there you go.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/789510—easter-treat-for-leafs-rookie-irwin?bn=1
I dunno, I think I hardly noticed him which means he wasn’t doing anything horribly bad either, although his skating is really lacking. Oh well, at least I feel a little bit better that we’re not just wasting a year of his contract on one game – now it’s two!
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by Karina on Apr 2, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
He did almost get a goal, but Tyler Myers blocked his shot on what was essentially an empty net.
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My take on the burning of a year of his ELC… it’s two years, right? Meaning he’ll now need a new deal at the end of next season. He plays a couple games to end this season, probably plays most of next year in the AHL and maybe gets a few chances with the Leafs. Then he needs a new contract. Presumably the guy is not going to turn in a Bozak-like performance next season, thus he’ll be an RFA who hasn’t proven a whole lot, and Burke will be able to sign him for another couple years at a low price. Smart asset management by Burke to get him cheap for probably 4+ years instead of needing to give him a raise after two.
Matt Frattin
Does anyone know whether Frattin signed an ELC? If not, what is the deadline to sign him? I’m totally in the dark when it comes to prospect retention rules as they apply to NCAA draftees, and my have assed attempt to research the topic yielded nothing.
Frattin won't sign an ELC
until after he’s done with School… most college players don’t make the jump unless they’re guaranteed to have NHL ice time relatively quickly, otherwise it’s stupid to give up on a scholarship and University education at a top end school just to go play in the AHL.
Hanson left after his senior year, Bozak left after his senior year, Irwin left after his senior year, Gysbers left after his senior year. The only reason Stålberg left before he was a senior is because he was in the top 10 in running for the Hobey Baker, and he knew he had a good shot at making the Leafs within the year.
Expect D’Amigo and Hayes to contemplate making the jump after next season if they put up big numbers in the NCAA. If they can crack the NHL lineup before their senior year, they will. Otherwise, they’ll stick it out and join the Leafs after their last year of school… no need to rush things.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Thanks for the Bozak correction
I was completely in the wrong there… as for Stalberg, no need for correction.
I actually said Stalberg left before his senior year… so you’re just confirming what I said.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
As for Paradis
his signing an ELC with the Leafs doesn’t preclude him playing in Junior next season, it’s just a chance for him to get some AHL level experience, and the team wants him to keep playing into the spring.
This is all just part of his overall development curve, and it brings him into the system, giving him a leg up on the competition long term so to speak. He sees the Leaf system as a teenager, the coaches tell him what he needs to focus and work on, and what he’s doing well, and he goes away and works on it all summer. Then when training camp opens up next year, they have an idea going in what he’s capable of, and they know to look for his improvement in the areas they asked him to work at.
If he improves a lot in the areas they wanted him to focus upon, then he’s probably a keeper. If he doesn’t improve much, if at all? Well then I guess he drops down the depth chart, and it’s no major loss to the team.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Bobby Ryan was drafted
in the 2005 draft. After Owen Sound was eliminated in the OHL playoffs in the 2nd round (11 games played) he signed an ELC with Anaheim to play for Portland in the AHL playoffs. He went and played a further 19 playoff games with the Pirates.
In 19 AHL playoff games he produced 1 goal and 7 assists. Then he went back to Owen Sound the following year and produced 43 goals and 102 points in 63 games. He played in 4 playoff games with the Attack, they were eliminated, and he finished off the regular season in Portland again. Unfortunately the Pirates didn’t make the playoffs in 2006-07, so he only saw action in 8 games, producing 3 goals and 6 assists for 9 points.
In 2007-08 he hit the ground running with the Pirates, producing 21 goals and 49 points in his first 48 games. He was also called up briefly to the Ducks for his first 23 NHL games.
In 2008-09 he again started in the AHL (this time with the Iowa Chops) and produced 9 goals and 19 points in 14 games before finally being called up to the NHL full time.
This is a patter Burke follows with most of his prospects. Get them as much AHL experience as possible before they are NHL ready. Extend their seasons into the spring as much as possible via the AHL playoffs, or World Championships (whatever competitive high level hockey there is basically).
Eventually they should be ready for the NHL. I assume that’s what he’s working on with Paradis in this case.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Ahhh stop with the Bobby Ryan talk, you’re getting my trade hopes up again after spending so much time tampering my expectations!
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