Monday Was Epic, Hopefully Tuesday Follows Suit
by SkinnyFish on Apr 20, 2010 7:00 AM EDT
in From The Branches
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PrintSo in case you were in a coma yesterday then you know how awesome Monday April 19th was. There was just so much win in almost everything that happened. However, through all the awesome one happening shone brighter than the others; one thing was truly epic.
No I don't mean Client Jaroslaugh HAHAHAlak being pulled in favor of Carey Jesus Price, and I'm not talking about Andrew Raycroft going in for Luongo. No, I'm referring to Jose Canseco absolutely losing his damn mind yesterday morning on Twitter. Through his verified Twitter account, the former Bash Brother suggested an ancient Spartan style of killing unpure babies upon birth; challenged all those who doubted his MMA skills to a fight; foretold the impending end of the world; threatened murder upon haters; and then had his girlfriend wake up and apologized for "venting" unto the world, all the while berating people who tweeted at him. Down Goes Brown has provided you with a handy dandy flowchart to use in case you meet Jose on the street and want to avoid getting beat up.
Seriously if you're not on Twitter, get on Twitter. Then follow me @SkinnyFishbowl (why yes, I have no shame) and then follow @JoseCanseco. You'll be glad you did.
Oh also, some hockey related stuff happened yesterday. Follow the jump for those links.
Top Nine things going on so far in the playoffs
That's right, just nine. I see no number ten.
Average playoff game lengths since 1980
Behind the Net with an interesting look at how long games go in the playoffs.
A nice round-up of stories to follow so far these playoffs
Fear the Fin does the work so you don't have to.
NBC lost $223M through Winter Olympic coverage
This is karma working on behalf of Conan O'Brien
Oh Canada, our home and something something
Anthem singer at the LAK-VAN game didn't know the words to Oh Canada. Seriously.
Too much tongue
This is just wrong.
Stats which tell you nothing
Some stats just shouldn't exist.
Lessons learned this season
Chansler writes at MLHS about things he learned this season
YEEAAAAAAAAHH!!!
CSI: Mile High Hockey
Miller, Bryzgalov, and Brodeur for the Vezina
People are actually calling for Martin Brodeur to win this because they are dumb. I'm looking at you Mike Keenan.
LOLeafs errrr LOLother teams
Loser Domi doing what she does best.
Will the Leafs shop for some UFAs?
Geez I sure hope not if this is their shopping list.
Penalty Kill Time vs Scoring Chances Against
Slava Duris breaks down the short handed scoring chances against per player.
Sittler's fro and White's baby
Vintage Leafs brings you more pictures of the Leafs' past
Ten reasons Daniel Alfredsson will not make the hall of fame
At Jared's request, this oldie but goodie was included. I think we should send it to Ian Mendes.
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Comments
That ufa list would make me a sad panda Mr. Burke
by blueandwhite89 on Apr 20, 2010 7:32 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah, not a ton of interest in there.
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MARLEAU!!1
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Frolov is growing on me.
But he’s not on that list.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
indeed, me thinks he’ll want too much coin for Burkies tastes
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
And his production has been steadily declining IIRC
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
yes, it has.
But I think if he wants too much money, he will just go to the KHL. He’s not a premier forward, but he is legit top 6.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
i think he’d be a good Hagman replacement, unfortunately he wont be as cheap
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Hagman is what, $3 mill?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup, for the next two years.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
yeah
Frolov won’t be under $4 mill
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed
I’d probably take Frolov at 4 though…for 2 years
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Frolov. Wouldn’t mind picking him up as the top 6 at all. Then add David Clarkson to the bottom 6 and I think we’re pretty much set.
Not Liking Nikolai Kulemin Means You Have No Soul
I will be quite surprised if Clarkson isnt re-inked by the devils a week or so after they are eliminated
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
really? hmm missed that.
who knows then
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think it was mentioned on TSN during one of the Devils games.
Not Liking Nikolai Kulemin Means You Have No Soul
I like Clarkson, think he’s a decent player, not so sure of his overall fit into the Leafs.
leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.
He’s a solid two way guy, could probably get 20 goals on average, but in reality he’s a 3rd liner, not a Top 6 guy. Good depth player to have though.
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by blindfolded tank driver on Apr 20, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus, this team needs some experience at the forward spot.
At the least, whether I agree with it or not, Burke won’t let the team play without some veterans in the mix at forward.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Apr 20, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you remember
The last time a free agent in Frolovs category only signing for 2 years?? I don’t even think the stationary for that exists
by Johnny Bower's Pokecheck on Apr 20, 2010 1:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
exactly
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeff O’neill?
WWGRD? (What Would Gary Roberts Do?)
by PassivelyTruculent on Apr 20, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
trade
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
41, 42, 44 pts the last 3 years. Getting solid 2nd line minutes the last two years.
That’s only a “steal” compared to UFAs. I’d rather have Grabbo, Stalberg and Caputi given relative cost. I think all of them can put up 40 points or more.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
the thing I liked about Hagman was that he always seemed to get the most out of his linemates. Kulemin and Grabbo improved leaps and bounds with him, hell even Kadri in the pre-season started to shine along side Hags
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I have doubts about Caputi.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too, but let’s find out what we have before we start blowing cap space on guys we know to be mediocre.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm
That is a good point, but I think I see Burke blowing some of that space on such a player anyways.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
yeap
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m surprized you decided to make fun of Marty possibly winning not winning the Vezina because Miller and Bryz are the frontrunners instead of making the obligatory “Tyler Myers for Vezina” joke
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Apr 20, 2010 7:33 AM EDT reply actions
Brodeur hasn’t been bad at all, I love Marty, but what Miller and Bryzgalov have done for their teams this year is spectacular.
I would say Miller, but that could be my east coast bias considering I watch him a lot more than Bryz.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Apr 20, 2010 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Marty’s been good, but the question is: Is he good enough to beat Miller and Bryz? Those two had great Seasons, and Marty had a good season and ended up beating guys like Rask, Howard, Vokoun, Anderson and Nabokov. Personally I think he has a chance on reputation alone, but Miller and Bryz have done as much as Marty did for NJ, except without guys like Parise on their teams
Cheers, Complaints, homerism and bashing of mediocre pop musicians in 140 Characters
"DO NOT get stuck behind Kyle Wellwood in the buffet line. This isn't really etiquette, but it will prevent you from starving to death"- Down Goes Brown on Etiquette for Jason Spezza's wedding
by Kevin Sellathamby on Apr 20, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Last night on Versus in between game, Mike Keenan made his case for Brodeur because he’s played the most games (77), has the most wins (45), and plays on a team that won it’s division (by 2 points). If that’s his reasoning, ignoring things like sv%, GAA, and level of talent around him, then Keenan is a moron.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Pretty much why Marty has such a low chance of winning. Unless pie eating counts as a goaltending statistic (see, I can make fun of myself!)
Cheers, Complaints, homerism and bashing of mediocre pop musicians in 140 Characters
"DO NOT get stuck behind Kyle Wellwood in the buffet line. This isn't really etiquette, but it will prevent you from starving to death"- Down Goes Brown on Etiquette for Jason Spezza's wedding
by Kevin Sellathamby on Apr 20, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
marty is fat
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I hear Bryz is bulimic
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I hear toskala is allergic to pucks
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
You’d be surprized
Cheers, Complaints, homerism and bashing of mediocre pop musicians in 140 Characters
"DO NOT get stuck behind Kyle Wellwood in the buffet line. This isn't really etiquette, but it will prevent you from starving to death"- Down Goes Brown on Etiquette for Jason Spezza's wedding
by Kevin Sellathamby on Apr 20, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I already made that joke yesterday on a link to possible Vezina nominees. Gotta stay fresh ya know.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
yeah, this isnt november or anything
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m hoping for a pleasent surprise from Burke during the offseason. Don’t know what but as long as it’s pleasent
by BlindSight on Apr 20, 2010 8:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
can't guarantee it'll be pleasant
but you can bank on something unexpected from the man. Did anyone see Dion Phaneuf coming? Or getting rid of Blake AND Toskala while getting an actual useful asset in return?
I’m pretty sure Burke has his eye on some UFA none of us have talked about. Which, I have to admit concerns me since the UFA class is pretty weak overall, and as a rule UFAs end up being overpaid.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
If he makes a surprise move, it’ll be in a trade, not through a UFA acquisition. The pickings are slim and over priced. Though should he trade Kaberle, will we be all that surprised?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
The ultimate surprise move by BB: re-signing TK to a 7 year contract at 1m per year cap hit.
HEARD IT HERE FIRST E5
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by nhlcheapshot on Apr 20, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
the only thing that will surprise people about a Kaberle trade is the returning package, either we will be blown away or realistically happy about the return.
of course there will be fans out there who will be pissed for the trade if the Leafs dont get a top 10 pick and a blue chip NHL ready prospect out of him.
Other than Kabby, I expect one minor trade (see Tlusty for Paradise for scale) one 2-3 million UFA and one surprise trade
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
The $2-3MM UFA signing is exactly what I’m afraid of. Like you, I expect it.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I just really really really hope it isnt colby armstrong
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You and me both
Or Raffi Torres!
Just say no to overpriced mediocrity, BB.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Torres sounds like he really wants to play in TO, and might take a discount to do so
of course a discount on a UFA is a tricky thing, does he merely go from over priced to market value or does he take a deal of a contract (1.5?)? doubtful
if torres signs for under 2 mill I cant say i’d be pissed, but it wont happen
more likely he gets 2.5 plus
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree the floor for him is likely $2MM. And given guys like Stalberg, Sjostrom and Hanson in-house, I don’t see any reason to spend much more than $1MM on a 3rd liner—which won’t get you an upgrade in the UFA market..
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
indeed, I’d much rather run the kids out on the third line, even the ones like Caputi who probably need a good run in the AHL than over pay for a not really needed or part of the future player
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
his career high in points is 46
and that was 6 years ago. And he’s soon to be 30.
I realize hockey players contribute a lot more than points, but this team does NOT need to start importing Raffi Torreses. To repeat the frequent refrain, we have enough 2nd and 3rd liner wingers already — we dont need to start paying for more.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
(see Tlusty for Paradise for scale)
Mmmm Tlusty for Paradise, that sounds awesome! I’d trade him for a beach in Cuba!
by CanadianMaple09 on Apr 20, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
again
The long-rumoured Kaberle trade is the most obvious move we’re all expecting. Except that we’ve been expecting it for roughly two calendar years now, and its yet to happen. I’m just saying, based on track record, its entirely possible that Burke priority list for this offseason doesn’t have “KABERLE” scrawled across the top of it — and we’re in for some unexpected surprise. He has a plan, and to be frank, we don’t really know what it is.
We had an inkling of the moves for Kessel and maybe Beauchemin. But did anyone foresee him signing Mike Komisarek to a huge deal as free agency opened on July 1, for example?
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
That’s why he’ll re-sign him, no one will see it coming!
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Apr 20, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Kaberle is sitting on the shelf with a forsale sign, but Burke isnt dragging him around the NHL looking for a buyer
I think he will field many an offer, weather any will be good enough who knows.
I’m hoping he can swing fingers 2 year contract for a slightly higher paid (but at least serviceable) player on a one year deal
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Kaberle will go nowhere, rendering another 5,000 word fanpost of mine irrelevant.
…
Gotta go. I need to get to work on a 10,000 word opus on why Jeff Finger should get a lifetime contract.
Resident Capologist
include the words “no trade clause” and “no movement clause”
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by nhlcheapshot on Apr 20, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if Burke will make much of a UFA splash, but he may go the trade route, targeting teams who need to shed salary.
I’m wondering if any of the top UFAs for 2011 could be in his sights this year, and Burke tries to make a trade with one of those teams. Guys like Richards in DAL (although, I don’t know that the Leafs could fit his current salary under the cap), Thornton in SJ (if the Sharks decide to blow the team up should they bow out early again), Semin in WAS (just because, I keep reading how he’s prime trade fodder for some reason or another…), Koivu in MIN (which I don’t see happening in a million years, but as stated previously, who saw Phaneuf, or the Blake/Toskala trades as possible?) or Bergeron in BOS (only 16 guys signed next year, and only $8M in cap space.)
There’s also the lesser lights of 2011 that might be good for a year of filler while keeping the kids on the Marlies for development. Guys like Tim Connolly (who’s pretty good, when his melon isn’t scrambled), Erik Cole (he seems like a “Burke” kind of player as well), LA’s Justin Williams, PIT’s Maxime Talbot are all UFAs in 2011.
He could go the same route with the RFAs, perhaps not as high profile a player as Kessel, but a team that could be feeling a cap crunch or is in a “win now” mode might move an RFA they can’t afford to resign for an expiring contract or two, cough-Stamkos-cough (i kid, i kid. it ain’t happening, i know…)
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d take a flyer on Connolly or Talbot for the right price
I want nothing to do with Cole though unless there are other good assets coming back, Cole is terrible
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed, cole is brutal. Talbot is a solid depth player but he really seems to love playing in Pitt. cant see him wanting to leave such a good situation, especially after scoring 2 goals in game 7 of the cup final last year
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Why would we take on what would essentially be a rental? You’d have to give up serious assets for Richards/Thornton/Semin/Koivu/Bergeron. Connelly/Williams/Talbot wouldn’t be much of an upgrade, if any, over our current crop; or at least not enough of an upgrade to warrant the increased salary.
I say hold our powder in case a real difference maker shakes lose. Look how many times Pronger has been traded the last five years. Look at Phaneuf.
As for keeping the “kids” in the minors, Hanson and Stalberg are 24. They’re not kids. Historically, prime NHL years are 25-27. These guys have had a year as pros to adjust, they’re still cheap, they’ll never be better value. Caputi is younger, but has put up AHL numbers that are as good or better than what typically warrants promotion for a 20-21 yr old, if you look at precedents league-wide. Same for Kadri and his OHL numbers. You have to get value out of guys when they are cheap—look at the successful teams around the league, they are littered with guys 20-24 yrs old. Let them play unless they look clearly out of place in camp.
I think a 3rd line of Stalberg-Hanson-Sjostrom next year would be aces (pencilling in either Caputi or a trade target to fill out the top 6). I have yet to hear of a single potential trade/UFA signing that would give us better bang for the buck on the 3rd line.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
chill
I didn’t say I/we would, I said Burke might.
nowhere in there am I advocating it.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m with you. Jared and I have been bantering about this a lot. Seems we all fear Burke spending like a drunken sailor.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I still think he targets youth and potential over old and busted, but that extra 6 mill might prove too tempting
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Caputi on the 2nd line? over Stalberg?
No shutdown line. Stalberg-Hanson-Sjoey? Like to have a 3rd line that excels in a defesive role. Sjoey is okay. The other 2, not sure.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Apr 20, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing fixed in stone. I think Caputi has more offensive upside than Stalberg. He’s younger and did just as well or better in the A. Plus, I think Stalberg’s relative asset is speed, whereas for Caputi it’s more a nose for the net. I think Stalberg’s speed translates well to a defensive/energy role. Hanson I think could also thrive in a defensive role.
This is not a team that can afford the luxury of paying some John Madden type $2MM as a defensive specialist on the 3rd line. We need to fill that role in-house, on the cheap, since we’ve got over $25MM locked up on the blueline.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting. For sure nothing conrete yet, but wanted to hear your elaboration on the topic. I’d say switch them up, but it’s a big guessing game right now anyways.
Also, $25 MM on the blueline. Until Kabs is dealt and Finger buried right? and Kule signs for a cool 2 mill?
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Apr 20, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’ll believe Kabs/Finger when I see it.
Stalberg and Caputi I think are very much unknown quantities with upside and downside (whereas Hanson to me is more of a known quantity: grinding 3rd line C with 30 pt potential). I’d like to see both get a good chance at 2nd line minutes next year.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Finger goes down if Burke needs the cap space, till then he is probably penciled in as the 6/7th dman (depending on Kabbys deal)
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to see both get a good chance at 2nd line minutes next year.
me too.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Apr 20, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Erik Cole is done. Connolly might be as well. He can’t stay healthy. Not worth the risk. Ditto for Williams.
no
as I responded to 67 sound, I’m not saying it should/needs to be done, just looking at what other options are open to Burke, and hypothesizing what he might do.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
i don’t know. I don’t think Burke is going to fill up the roster with 30 year old journeymen. I still feel that having all your prospects develop in the AHL is a luxury. When you’ve got proven players and limited roster space, it works great. But that isn’t always the case and it’s not going to be in Toronto next season.
nor do i
which is why i didn’t list any journeymen.
I’m just thinking if Burke is looking to make a deal to upgrade the forwards, he might target guys who will be UFAs in 2011. There’s a chance the team they’re currently on may not plan on resigning them.
It’s essentially a pump-and-dump scenario.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
ya
as I said, Connolly is a huge risk.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Maple Leafs Annual
In reference to yesterday’s discussion about William Houston’s billions of books sold…
All Alec could wrangle out of the company that publishes it was that it sold pretty well for a first run and that they printed 50,000 copies. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it Billo.
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by PPP on Apr 20, 2010 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
...
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
nice!
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Love that Alfredsson article
Anytime sens fans get their panties in a bunch its a fun time
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
And its all true. Dude shouldn’t be anywhere near the Hall of Fame.
Not Liking Nikolai Kulemin Means You Have No Soul
no kidding
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
if sundin is an HOFer
you can make a good argument for Alfie, I’m sorry.
It pains me to say, but if Mats deserves it (and I’d say he’s got a puncher’s change) so does that little shit.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
sundin was by far the best player on the Leafs 95% of the time he was here, he is also the first european captian, the highest scoring swed of all time and the first european to be selected first over all
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Too bad
Being the best Leaf for a while, being a high draft pick or being the most successful of your particular region of birth is in no way shape or form criteria to getting in the hall of fame.
by Johnny Bower's Pokecheck on Apr 20, 2010 1:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’d say being the best from your region certainly helps. I know he’s not in there yet, and he is still playing, but one thing that most definitely helps Mike Modano’s case as a HOFer is being the highest scoring American born player.
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Mikey Mo makes the hall. Book it.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
also
considering the HOFers sweden has produced, sundin being the highest scoring one of them all is pretty impressive
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but if Grabovski ends up being the best Belrussian player of his era, but is only a 50 point player over his career – he won’t get in the HoF.
There is better criteria out there. Modano deserves it in his own right.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Apr 20, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously it needs to be within reason. If you are from Niger for example, and make the NHL, you are probably going to be the best player of all time from that country. But since it doesn’t produce any players, that isn’t really a good thing. Whereas European countries, for the most part, produce players who are top flight talent throughout most of their careers.
I am the commenter formerly known as Belligerent Burkie
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90 or add me to XBox Live - CoolJ90
Have you seen Modanos numbers?
He doesnt need any more help
by Johnny Bower's Pokecheck on Apr 20, 2010 1:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes I have
Not a PPG player, not the “man” on his team when they won either – that was Hatcher and Nieuwendyk, and even Hull. He was a 1st all-star once and didn’t win an award other than the Cup in 1999, not a PPG player in the playoffs either. He did score 50 goals once, which Alfie didn’t.
I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve to make the Hall, I’m just pointing out there is a good (or at least decent) case to be made for him not being a HHOF worthy player. One of those good, but not great players.
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Uhhh, he’s one of the two greatest American players ever along with LaFontaine. He’s a 1st ballot Hall of Famer guranteed.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
which is back to him being in because of the fact he’s American….
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
USA! USA! USA!
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
2nd Place! 2nd Place! 2nd Place!
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by PassivelyTruculent on Apr 20, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s also 23rd in All-Time Regular Season Scoring and 29th in All-Time Playoff Scoring. He’s in.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
LaFontaine is in because he’s ridiculously talented. sad his career got cut short.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I know
But Pokecheck was saying that being the highest scoring player from your region isn’t worth very much.
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Depends on the region. The USA has been producing good NHL talent for a long long time.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweden is nothing to shake a stick at for producing hockey players
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I know!
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Pokecheck
Says a lot of things
by Johnny Bower's Pokecheck on Apr 20, 2010 3:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
His entrance to the NHL has cultural impact which just adds to his statistics which are enough to get him in on their own.
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500 goals or 1000 pts
Should be close to or near automatic entry to the Hall for any player
by Johnny Bower's Pokecheck on Apr 20, 2010 7:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he was drafted first over all because he was very good before the NHL, and he is the highest scoring player from a country that has produced players like Forsberg
it means something
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think so at all. Mats never scored less than 23 goals in a season til his last year (fuck Vancouver) and has done numerous other things that Alfredsson hasn’t. Plus Mats has class while everybody and their mother knows Alfredsson is a piece of shit.
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Likes Alfredson
by Johnny Bower's Pokecheck on Apr 20, 2010 1:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Don Cherry has gone senile.
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by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You can make a good argument for Alfredsson . He’s no shoe-in, but will likely be in the HOF at some point.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Apr 20, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Sundins argument
NHL
* Tied-most regular season overtime goals (15, shared with Jaromír Jágr, Sergei Fedorov and Patrik Eliáš)
* Tied-20th in career goals (564, shared with Joe Nieuwendyk)
* 32nd in career assists (785)
* 25th all time in career points (1349)
* First European-born and trained player to be drafted first overall in the NHL Entry Draft (1989 by the Quebec Nordiques)
* Longest serving European-born and trained captain of an NHL franchise in league history (10 seasons)
* Only Swedish player to reach the 500 goal milestone (564)
* Most career points, goals and assists by a Swedish hockey player
* Tied-Fastest overtime goal (6 seconds, sharest with Alexander Ovechkin, Simon Gagné and David Legwand)
* First Swedish player to reach 1000 points
* One of two players (Marcel Dionne) to record at least 20 goals in his first 16 NHL seasons
* Most games played by a European born-and-trained forward (1346)
and for one of the most storied franchises in the league with a rich history of very good players
Toronto Maple Leafs
* Goals (420)
* Assists by a forward (587)
* Points (987)
not to mention 8 all star appearances (9 if you count the one he was injured for), captian of the swedish gold medal team, the mark messier leadership award in 08 and a bunch of others
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
no one's denying Sundin's eligibility
but i think Alfredsson hate distorts the view.
as I think mf37 once pointed out, if Burke traded for Alfredsson, how quickly would Leafs fans love him?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
not very for me
the thing is Sundin has much more going for him on the HHOF chance than Alfie does. I hate the mother fucker more than the average Leaf fan, but I’d admit i thought he had a better than average chance of getting into the hall
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
hypothetical
lets say Alfredsson wins the cup, does he get in then?
his current points totals and games played are similar to HOFers like Lanny MacDonald, Joe Mullen, and with another season or two, he could have higher points than Glenn Anderson. He’s already got more points than Neely or Larianov.
I just think that saying NHL results are what matters is disingenuous to the point of calling it the HOCKEY hall of fame. It’s not the NHL hall of fame…
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by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
isn’t he a sens draft pick? No reason to talk about it.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed. automatic disqualification.
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by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
that and having stupid hair
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
but it’s Sundin’s international accomplishments that I think put him over the top…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn’t Alfredsson also on that gold medal team?
I mean really this is just building the case for the P.J. Axelsson bid.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
wait a second? he’s not in?
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by blindfolded tank driver on Apr 20, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
ya, i’m confused…
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by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he just stopped playing in the NHL this year so there’s a year or two off. I expect a first-ballot entry though.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but he wasnt named captian over players like Lidstrom
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
sure, but Sundin was Captain and also had some great results at the World Jrs which led to him being drafted #1 overall.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
well yes, my opinion is obviously based on the hear and now, and right now Alfie has nothing on Mats either in the NHL or worlds hockey and thus Sundin has a better chance at making it in
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Both Lanny and Joe Mullen scored 500 goals. Alfie isn’t even at 400.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
no
but his assists are higher.
i was just looking at points. some guys score, some guys set up. it’s not the Goal Scoring Hall of Fame.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i dunno
i’m not by any means an Alfie fan. I just think a case could be made for his eligibility.
first ballot, most definitely not. someday, i wouldn’t be shocked to see him get in though.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I just said the same below.
He’ll have 1100 points. Wonder how many with that have NOT gotten in?
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Just checked. For guys retired over 10 years, here’s the entire list:
Nicholls (one dimensional, offensive era, only huge season was with Gretzky)
Ciccarelli (gigantic douchebag, everyone hated him).
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
that's all i'm saying
i hate the Sens with the white hot intensity of 10,000 suns, but it needs to be said that Alfredsson’s career is at least comparable to Sundin’s career arc.
I will credit something to Sundin being the 1st non-Canadian to go 1st overall, but besides that very few of the factors listed in his favour above are eye-popping or are clear factors in getting into the HOF.
Neither ever won any individual awards and neither ever won a Stanley Cup but I don’t think never being the absolute best at any one thing at any one time means you’re not Hall-worthy.
For the record, Sundin is absolutely the most talented player to don a Leafs jersey in my life, and possibly ever.
Based on the standards of the past few years, I think he’ll make it in one day. And if that’s the case, I dont see how Alfredsson doesn’t get consideration a few years after that. As much as it pains me.
I think this has to be the first time I’ve ever argued in favour of Alfredsson in anything.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
I’d be curious how Swedish hockey fans view Mats vs Alfie, without NHL fandom impacting their assessment. My gut tells me that Mats is in a different league, up there with Borje, Forsberg, Lidstrom. I’d be surprised if Swedes put Alfie in that same company.
There’s no denying Alfie’s a skilled player. But in terms of class and leadership, there’s not even a comparison. Sens fans think he’s a great captain, but anyone looks great compared to Yashin and Laurie Boschman.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
I always thought Sundin stood above Forsberg in the eyes of the Swedes.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
that was my impression – Salming, Sundin, Forsberg.
The somewhere back is Lidstrom, for reasons I’ve never had explained.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Lidstrom’s probably the best Swede ever from an NHL perspective. How many Norris trophies does he have? Probably less than he deserved.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fewer than Orr, and that’s what matters.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
really?
I thought he was at 6, only one back from Doug Harvey?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm
he is.
I thought Harvey had the record, which he does not. Interesting.
Doughty’ll get up to Orr’s record though.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I really like that despite Orr’s extremely shortened career he still manages to hold the Norris record. Of course that’s for a reason.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking this morning how people say that with today’s medicine, Orr would’ve played much longer. But would you have wanted him to? Players who come back from knee surgery seem to rarely play up to their previous standard. I’m glad we can enjoy Orr’s career without the sucky years that so many older players have fallen into at the end of their careers.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
He still went to Chicago.
p.s. I hope alan eagleson burns in hell forever
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but that was back when players went to Chicago to die.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
He played his entire career on a bad knee. If he’d had proper surgery, he might actually have been better, hard as that is to fathom.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Bobby Orr but better. Excuse me, I think I need to change my pants.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Also I love that 4th-highest number of Norris trophies goes to Ray Bourque. Boston loves having a badass defenseman.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
That or having one great one every 20 years or so
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Doesn’t mean we don’t love it when we do, or aren’t better then. Shore, Orr, Bourque, Chara…
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, it’s interesting to see how franchises end up building the same way over the years.
Burke’s philosophy is just building a team the way the Leafs did waaaaaay back when they were winning.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s one to salivate over – Boston got Orr after Toronto told him to sit and spin. Boston got Bourque with someone else’s first-rounder.
Now, Boston has Toronto’s first-rounder and there’s a defenseman available….
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Too bad they can’t score to save their lives and will thus spend it on whichever one of Hall and Seguin are left.
I am the commenter formerly known as Belligerent Burkie
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Getting my Seguin jersey order ready.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
they’re not taking Fowler.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t do that just yet. You guys may get Hall.
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oh I’m not actually buying anything until it happens.
Plus I want an Axelsson jersey first.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
?
I am the commenter formerly known as Belligerent Burkie
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Try Again
I am the commenter formerly known as Belligerent Burkie
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hmmmmm?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Axelsson jersey?
I am the commenter formerly known as Belligerent Burkie
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P.J. Axelsson, my favorite player of all time
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Now I’m confused as to why you’re laughing at me about this. Very confused. Care to explain?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Axelsson isn’t a player I would qualify as “jersey worthy”. Especially with either Hall or Seguin coming to the B’s.
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That still doesn’t explain the laughing bit.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to, but imagine your reaction to hearing that I’m getting a Toskala jersey. Not that Axelsson is that bad though.
I am the commenter formerly known as Belligerent Burkie
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There’s a difference. Axelsson actually prevented a lot of goals against the Bruins.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a fucking awful comparison.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
This guy
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
That picture makes me miss Wendel. :(
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Sorry buddy, you’ll be home soon and then you’ll have Wendel again.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly if the bruins don’t have a draft viewing party and jersey sale they do not have a very good community-building marketing team.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Duncan Keith would like a word with you
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
sure, anytime
How old is he again? Doughty is 20 and possibly better than Keith already. Noone’s going to able to touch him once he actually hits his prime.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
perhaps
I’m just not penciling anyone in for anything over the next decade. Things change.
The league wants talent and stanley cups to move around. That, plus the odd flying elbow, I feel, will ensure that we’ll have a lot of changover on the Art Ross, Norris, Vezina and of course Stanley Cup over the next few years.
If I had to pick between Keith and Doughty right now, you’re right, I’m not sure who I’d take. Keith’s a hair better right now, but Doughty’s more appealing because of his age.
Either way, i’m just glad they’re both Canadian :)
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
oh sure
but Doughty’s talent as a defenseman looks to me like it’s at a level I haven’t seen before since I started watching hockey, I can’t see how anyone will be able to match him, barring injuries.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Doughty
wasn’t the best rookie in the league or best player on his team last year, much less a Norris candidate.
He’ll be in the running this year but I doubt he’ll win.
I don’t want to come across as rooting against the kid. He may well win 10 Norrises. I just haven’t seen enough from a very very good rookie season and even better sophomore campaign to pencil him in just yet.
I mean, the boxcar stats on the great Tyler Myers’s rookie season are a solid 50% better. But what does that mean?
On second thought, he’s awesome. The Leafs should have taken him over Schenn.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
Doughty was, in fact, the best rookie of the year last year.
You really need to watch him play instead of relying on stats. As good as he was at the Olympics for Canada, he’s stepped it up in the playoffs. The fact that he’s a 20 year old defenseman and already able to do what he does is scary.
He won’t win this year, no, but can you name one defenseman that won the norris in their softmore year?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
ok you win
he’s the best defenseman of his generation.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
at least give him “best Spin-o-Rama of his generation”
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
can you name one defenseman that won the norris in their softmore year?
Bobby. Orr.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
he was more of a rover
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Duncan Keith is having a good year. Drew Doughty is ridiculous, and getting better.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a little scary how good Doughty is now, never mind how good he is going to become.
leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.
I think that about Crosby
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly. We’re seeing incredible generational talent right.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, Malkin, Toews, Ovie, etc etc etc
schenn….
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by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Duncan Keith better get his head out of his ass this playoffs. my fantasy team isn’t going to be get better without him.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Because Salming was all alone, and Lidstrom played with Sundin and Forsberg.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I thought it had more to do with the lack of playing in Sweden. Both Forsberg and Sundin spent time with the national team pre-NHL, I don’t think Lidstrom did.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Sundin’s in like sin… we know that.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Apr 20, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
Both make it. Alfie’s still got 2-3 years to pile up stats.
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Ummm, folks?
The HHOF is not Cooperstown. If Glenn Anderson, Pat Lafontaine, Joe Mullen and Bernie Federko—all of whom had roughly comparable stats to Alfie, but played in a much easier offensive era—are in the HHOF, so is Krusty.
He’s not a first ballot no-brainer like Sundin, and he is a first class douchebag, but he would probably be a Hall of Famer if he retired after this season (two more games, right?). I see him playing at least 2 more years, which will put him over 1100 points.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
you’re probably right, but I like reading reasons why he shouldn’t be in, simply because I hate him.
I also hate Mark Messier and like reading things that put him down.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
now I want to go find a good article about how much Messier sucks.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a shame that the HHOF doesn’t have more transparent standards as to who gets in or even some minimum suggested guidelines.
In terms of raw numbers, Sudnin does have a bit of a leg up over Alfredsson. He’s played in 30% more regular season games, has scored 60% more goals and has just slightly outpointed Alfredsson on a ppg basis.
Sundin Alfredsson
GP 1346 1002
G 564 375
A 785 616
PTS 1349 991
g/gp 0.419019316 0.374251497
a/gp 0.58320951 0.614770459
pts/gp 1.002228826 0.989021956
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Cooperstown is not like Cooperstown. Baseball fans and writers like to mythologise their Hall of Fame but it’s absolute bullshit and Jim Rice’s induction was the last nail in the coffin.
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That’s a fair point, but more goes to writers’ stupdity (Blyleven is still not in).
I still think hockey’s easier. Was Bernie Federko ever even one of the Top 10 forwards in the league?
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, some cases (Dick Duff) are controversial because he played in a six team league. People apparently would rather ignore his peers and the reality of the NHL at the time just to score points against the Leafs.
Baseball is harder if you look at just counting stats but there are good sabremetric cases against a lot of the latest guys. Or even just the process. 15 yerars of politicking to get in? You, sir, are not a hall of famer if that’s what’s required to get in.
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You should start a new blog and call it “Cooperstown is not like Cooperstown” the semioticians would really dig it.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
This is a great idea.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
heh
That would be a sweet blog.
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i would read the crap out of that blog
if it weren’t about baseball
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
Crap.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
high five
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Aw, CLOLient didn’t make it into the FTB. I thought that was clever.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 10:43 AM EDT reply actions
it is kinda depressing that the main reason I am excited for next season is that it will be the first season since the lockout that the Leafs will start with goaltending that looks like it can at the very least post league average
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions
Gustavsson gets hit by an airplane after game three.
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then do we trade Reimer for Mason?
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
From today’s 30 Thoughts
Probably won’t find out how hurt Daniel Alfredsson really is until after Ottawa is done, but I think he returned so quickly in Game 3 for two reasons: The team is already down two top six forwards (Kovalev/Michalek) and he thought this could be a special year for the Senators. One observer noted his intensity in practice two weeks ago, and when I asked about it, he said he wanted to set the proper example of what it takes to win in a wide-open Eastern Conference.
“This could be a special year for the Senators” – Daniel Alfredsson 2010
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Iginla wants out of Calgary? Too old for my taste but wow that’s turning into a shitshow.
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how long after that happens do they trade Kipper for a second round of ugly baby?>
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
They gave him Matt Stajan to be his centre……
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Don’t worry about Dion any more Iggy, we sent him to toronto AND brought in a new center for you!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
People who have centered Iginla in Calgary newest to oldest
Stajan
Jokinen
Langkow
Conroy
Savard
Stillman
Nylander
Jesus, will somebody get that man a decent center?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I was gonna say Savard was pretty decent,but wow, he only broke 50 points once in Calgary
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
53 points in 2000, 65 points in 2001
Still not super-duper production but it doesn’t make you less wrong.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
double checked, and yes you are right, I retract my statement
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
Was he playing with Iggy those years? Hmmmm.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Those guys
are still better players (though centers) than Sundin had wingers over his career.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Apr 21, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Brent Sutter must be a huge pain in the ass.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I stand by my assumption that he went to the room to have a cry and get the trainer to kiss his booboo better
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
We were right: Brian Elliott’s secret goalie coach is CuJo.
Sad.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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with the way smeliot has been playing I have to question if CuJo isnt a Burkian mole
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Secret Agent Curtis Joseph to you!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Plekanec
he’s way out of our price range, but I wouldn’t mind stealing one of the Habs best players again this July 1.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:33 PM EDT reply actions
that would be kinda awesome
I bet he gets Kessel money from someone though
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
oh yeah, given Kesler’s $5 mill deal in Vancouver, he’ll be looking at a big payday.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
man I hope Kesler regresses and that contract becomes a boat anchor
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe, but I don’t see that contract ever being that hard to move.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
if he is terrible it will be
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s one of those players though that has “intangibles” so other GMs will always want him.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
intangibles and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee… but not an extra large.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Apr 21, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope Kesler gets better and plays for USA in the olympics again.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i heard Plekanec is a cancer in the dressing room, and the Kostitsyn’s and him don’t get along
/rumor starting FTW!
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Really, do the Kostitsyns get along with anyone?
Fantasy = Berezin - Grabovski - Moi
by Sergei Puckizin on Apr 20, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Mobsters
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Apr 20, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
coke dealers
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems Plekanec is good every two years. Point totals 49-69-39-70.
I think he goes for $5MM+ (which I agree is out of our price range) and there’s no way the Habs re-sign him unless they move another contract somewhere. They have $12MM to sign 10 guys, and that includes Price and/or Halak. If they sign Plekanec the others, including 2 goalies, would all have to be league minimum. Not happening.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
if they're smart
they let Plekanec walk and trade Halak for a king’s ransom
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
but given the way things went this year, I think they’ll trade Price and have it come back to haunt them.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Plekanec is a contract year player.
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still looks like the 3rd best UFA forward come July 1.
Looking at the list on capgeek makes me depressed.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/p/plekato01.html
avoid
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OK.
There is honestly noone that is decent and in our price range available.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on, I thought we were getting Kovy?
/trips over Johnny Bower’s Pokecheck
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I could go either way on Kovalchuk. He’s a player I wouldn’t mind depending on the contract.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Yeah, if you’re going to overpay do it for elite talent. But not sure what the attraction of Toronto would be for him.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Jays games?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
haaha, you can sit anywhere you want!
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding (building via free agency is terrible) ding ding ding ding ding ding ding
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Well yeah. But adding a complimentary part through free agency is a good thing. But there are none to be had.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Tell that to Burke!
“July 1st is our Draft”
WWGRD? (What Would Gary Roberts Do?)
by PassivelyTruculent on Apr 20, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we’ve learned that Burke says a lot of things that are either semantically true or won’t be true for a long time.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I am intrigued by the topic of this discussion. I think I’d like to work up a post about how to interpret things that Burkie says.
Got a Burkie pronouncement you’d like to see included in the discussion? Email me the details at junior[at]heroesinrehab.ca, or @ message me on Twitter, my handle is “warwalker”.
Thanks!
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
and a top-6!!!11
WWGRD? (What Would Gary Roberts Do?)
by PassivelyTruculent on Apr 20, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
AND A GOOD PROSPECT!~!!!!1
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
On behalf of eyebleaf, presently out of the country on an extensive baseball roadtrip, I feel compelled to point out the irony of the exclamation marks + "1"’s in a post concerning the desirability of trading TK.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
We didn’t talk about Kaberle at all last night.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Which completely correct
Because we won’t be getting anything of value on either day.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Apr 21, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke’s going trade route. I imagine he doesn’t spend big UFA dollars this summer.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Apr 20, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
note to self: Stop taking Burke’s words at face value.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s a song and dance man, putting on a show. Always has been.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Apr 20, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I keep forgetting this. One day I’m arguing he’s just creating smoke to distract the media, the next I’m trying to figure out how he’ll do what he says he’s going to do.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think he’s a song and dance kind of guy, is he? Burke is a straight shooter. He will try to upgrade this team through trade and free agency. I think that’s what he said in his end of year presser. Believe it!!!!!
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Apr 20, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s elements of both. He definitely tries to do what he says but he’s quite theatrical about it.
So it does worry me when he says July 1 is our draft given the almost totally unappealing class of UFA’s out there. But he doesn’t say how he’s going to get done what he wants, so maybe it’s trade(s) that he will get done.
leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.
ding ding ding
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Apr 20, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
08-09 was a contract year for him too and he crapped the bed. I think he’s just plain unreliable and think it’s a bad move to pay a soon-to-be 28 yr old for a career year.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i like plekanec
but the problem is he very quickly went from “just under the radar” to “maybe the best UFA centre available” very quickly.
So probably a moot point.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
someone will take a high salary long term chance on him, and it wont be Burke
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
thank goodness
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
no kidding, Burke wont sign anyone who wears a turtleneck
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
if he could, I’m sure Kovalchuk’s turtleneck wouldn’t keep him from signing him.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke would add into the contract
“ok, 10 years at 100 million. One last thing, if you dont drop the turtleneck the deal is off the table”
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
5 mill of his salary is a “no turtlenecks” bonus
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
who won the “5 reasons I love hockey” drawing?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Apr 20, 2010 2:37 PM EDT reply actions
quick, check everyone who entered for bruised knees!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Bill Houston.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Apr 20, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
uhhhh
/stops slacking
On my computer at home.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Cullen released his 'ranking of NHL rookies' and we did pretty decently.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=318744
While we had no top 10, we had 3 20s:
21-Gustavsson
22-Gunnarson
24-Bozak
36-Caputi
41-Stalberg
62-Hanson
With honourable mention to Rosehill
Did the honourable mention consist of “Oh yeah, Jay Rosehill played a few games. He’s also a rookie.” ?
Resident Capologist
could it have been anything else?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy I am most excited for
Is Gunnarson. He doesn’t make rookie mistakes. I’d like to see him in the blue and white for a long time…
agreed
i love when guys come out of relative obscurity to make the team a nd quickly become core members.
I remember the year Markov and Kaberle did it. The thing I like about Gunnarsson is he’s a complete player — good wheels with good offensive instincts yet actually plays defense. Not exactly physical but doesn’t shy away. He’s a real calming influence back there.
That we have him for under $1M for now is exactly the kind of contract this team needs
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
the thing i like most about him is that even if he doesnt improve another iota (which is unlikely) he is a perfectly serviceable second pairing defenseman
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i also enjoy the fact that Joe Bowen cant figure out who is Gunnarsson and who is Gustavsson
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 20, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling Joe is still confused if the zipper goes on the front or back when you put on pants
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
as long as he can drink while trying to figure it out, it wont bother him heh
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Apr 21, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Pants?
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Apr 21, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The only player I’d bring in off that free agent list is Malhotra. For the price of Primeau, he can do the bottom six stuff and fill in for top line minutes when needed. An utility player, who also brings veteran leadership and good work ethic.
40 years we've stayed loyal, waited, and pained. That is the honor of being a Leafs' fan.
Manny Malhotra? Good god no.
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I’d rather have Primeau back
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
didn’t you want Malhotra last year?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, i changed my mind
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Primeau blows. He was also our 3rd highest paid forward (excluding bonuses for Bozak and Kule) by the end of the year.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
he wont make that much money again
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t change the fact that he’s old, slow and he sucks.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
he is a known commodity, not saying I want him back, just that I’d rather have him than Malholtra
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
so your saying you’d rather have Primeau because you know hes old and slow?
40 years we've stayed loyal, waited, and pained. That is the honor of being a Leafs' fan.
because he has shown to be an excellent dressing room and team guy who was actually pretty damned good on faceoffs and the PK at the start of the year before he got injured
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds like Malhotra with less upside
40 years we've stayed loyal, waited, and pained. That is the honor of being a Leafs' fan.
actually, I’d rather take Wallin over both of them
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Apr 20, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
I’m fully on board the “no UFAs” train but Malhotra made $700K, had solid traditional stats and has exceptional behindthenet.ca and GVT stats for a 3rd liner. If we were to target a 3rd liner it would be someone with that profile, no?
But I’ll admit I haven’t really seen him play.
by The '67 Sound on Apr 20, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
because he won’t get $700,000 this summer. It’ll be more than he should get, I’m sure.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Apr 20, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
why not? a good defensive forward who can score 20-30pts. That is a tremendous upgrade over Primeau/Wallin
40 years we've stayed loyal, waited, and pained. That is the honor of being a Leafs' fan.
I think this is the kinda guy we go for
I will start off that I don’t know much about Malholtra, but that is beside the point, because I am not saying we should sign Malholtra.
I am just saying we should sign some veteran grinders who can put up 10 goals/30 pts and be defensively responsible, bring some experience, and be easy on the cap.
a little background on Malhotra
in Columbus he centered Nash and Huselius, and played on the 1st PP unit becuase of his willingness to go to the front of the net (an area Burke said the Leafs have been lacking all season). He may not have ever lived up to draft position, but has found a niche for himself by developing a strong defensive game and penalty killing ability. Think a gritty local-boy version of Sjostrom.
40 years we've stayed loyal, waited, and pained. That is the honor of being a Leafs' fan.
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