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Why Brian Burke should unplug his phone after the draft

I know.  Wha?  Where’s he going with this?  Well, lemme splain.

 

Star-divide

 

The 2010 UFA market is a rich, deep pool of absolute shit with a few sprinkles on top that make it look presentable.  Here’s a list of the top free agents, courtesy of capgeek.  Now, let’s weed out players over the age of 33 as well as goalies, as they would be unlikely targets for a rebuilding club such as the Leafs.  You’re left with this steaming pile of poo:

NAME

TEAM

CAP HIT

POS

Ilya Kovalchuk

New Jersey Devils

$6,389,300

F

Patrick Marleau

San Jose Sharks

$6,300,000

F

Olli Jokinen

New York Rangers

$5,250,000

F

Pavel Kubina

Atlanta Thrashers

$5,000,000

D

Paul Martin

New Jersey Devils

$3,833,333

D

Brett Clark

Colorado Avalanche

$3,500,000

D

Willie Mitchell

Vancouver Canucks

$3,500,000

D

Derek Morris

Phoenix Coyotes

$3,300,000

D

Alexander Frolov

Los Angeles Kings

$2,900,000

F

Mike Van Ryn

Toronto Maple Leafs

$2,900,000

D

Toni Lydman

Buffalo Sabres

$2,875,000

D

Matt Cullen

Ottawa Senators

$2,875,000

F

Tomas Plekanec

Montreal Canadiens

$2,750,000

F

Henrik Tallinder

Buffalo Sabres

$2,562,500

D

Brian Pothier

Carolina Hurricanes

$2,500,000

D

Fernando Pisani

Edmonton Oilers

$2,500,000

F

Anton Volchenkov

Ottawa Senators

$2,500,000

D

Lee Stempniak

Phoenix Coyotes

$2,500,000

F

Alex Tanguay

Tampa Bay Lightning

$2,500,000

F

Colby Armstrong

Atlanta Thrashers

$2,400,000

F

Dennis Seidenberg

Boston Bruins

$2,250,000

D

Raffi Torres

Buffalo Sabres

$2,250,000

F

Christopher Higgins*

Calgary Flames

$2,250,000

F

Alexei Ponikarovsky

Pittsburgh Penguins

$2,105,000

F

Marek Svatos

Colorado Avalanche

$2,050,000

F

Dan Hamhuis

Nashville Predators

$2,000,000

D

Mark Eaton

Pittsburgh Penguins

$2,000,000

D

Shaone Morrisonn

Washington Capitals

$1,975,000

D

Matthew Lombardi

Phoenix Coyotes

$1,816,666

F

Ruslan Fedotenko

Pittsburgh Penguins

$1,800,000

F

Jordan Leopold

Pittsburgh Penguins

$1,750,000

D

Eric Belanger

Washington Capitals

$1,750,000

F

Paul Mara

Montreal Canadiens

$1,675,000

D

*Chris Higgins not applicable to pile of poo reference.

Beyond Kovalchuk and Marleau, both of whom have well documented drawbacks, this list isn’t very impressive.  What Toronto lacks are impact players.  You are unlikely to find more than a handful in this year’s free agent market.  But we’ll comeback to the UFAs.

I think the best way to describe how I feel about the Leafs right now is that I have no clue what they’ve actually got.  Is Kessel a 40+ goal scorer?  Is Giguere or Gustavsson or Reimer (etc, etc) the long term solution in net?  Is Phaneuf a perennial all-star defenseman?  Will Stalberg, Kulemin, Caputi, or Kadri cement themselves as top-six forwards?  Is Bozak a number one center?  I’m not sure that you can name a player on the Leafs that doesn’t have questions surrounding his value (well, maybe Orr).

Until the Leafs actually figure out what they have, I’m not sure it’s a smart move to start dipping into the free agent market.  In the age of the salary cap, that could come back to haunt them for years.  But it’s not just the free agent market Burke should neglect.  Unless he gets an out of this world offer that’s too good to pass up (go look at HF boards, there are plenty), he should forget about trades as well.  Is there the type of player out there that fits the blueprint of this team?  Sure.  Are they available?  Probably not.   And at what cost?  I’m sure the staff would love to get Ryan or Neal or Backes.  But if it meant giving up Kulemin or Kadri or Bozak, I’m not sold it would be the best move.  Until the team has a better understanding of what each of those players brings, I don’t know if you can justify giving them up.  Burke had seen enough of Tlusty to move him to the Canes.  Has he been able to do the same with the rest of the young group?  I don’t claim to speak for Brian Burke, but I would guess "no".

Should a deal go down,  we may find down the line that it only turned out to be a lateral move, certainly one with cap implications.  My advice is that we stay the course.  Build on the progress made in the last quarter of this year, and figure out exactly what this team has in terms of talent.  Then, make your moves.

 

What are your thoughts?  Do you guys think Burke should be aggressive this summer or should he sit back and assess?

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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Comments

Display:

For the most part, Burke is going to be quiet come UFA season.

He’ll probably re-sign a couple players from last season, maybe one new 2nd or 3rd line forward, and that’s about it.

"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"

by JP Nikota on May 17, 2010 1:57 PM EDT reply actions  

KUBINA!

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on May 17, 2010 1:57 PM EDT reply actions  

AND MVR!
scratch that Gunnarsson kid

As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.

by Redonred on May 18, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know Tambellini has gotten a lot of flak from Oilers fans for endlessly ‘assessing’ but I agree that that is what is needed. Burke took about two years to overhaul the roster but he needs to take some time to figure out where this is going.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 17, 2010 2:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Well done. I agree (except for the Higgins love).

I think for the UFAs the key is to sign no one in the first week—you’ll never get a value in that window. And don’t get focussed on an individual guy. After the draft Burke will know what holes he’d like to fill. Set a price you’re not willing to exceed for a given roster slot. Pick which guys you’re willing to sign for that role (there probably won’t be more than a handful). Then just wait to see if anything shakes out at or below your price (like Malhotra did for the Sharks this year, or Afinogenov for the Thrashers). There’s always something available off the scrap heap in August.

by The '67 Sound on May 17, 2010 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I still like MVR for under a mil if he can recover and get back to reasonable game shape.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on May 17, 2010 3:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I still would have no problem with Burke trading Kaberle if he can get good value for him. Otherwise there’s not a whole lot out there in terms of UFAs that interest me, and any other trade ideas would seem too risky or implausible to consider seriously.

leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.

by stucky on May 17, 2010 3:20 PM EDT reply actions  

I keep hearing everywhere that Malkin is available

or that at least the Penguins would at least consider trading him this off-season.

Can you imagine finally getting that top line C again & reuniting him with his trusty old linemate in Kulemin, with KESSEL on the wing!!!!!!!!!

I’m thinking maybe a package centered around Kaberle & Beauch/Komi with guys like Stalberg, Hanson, Paradis, Stefanovich, Rynnas/Scrivens/Reimer and next year’s 2nd for Geno.

Toronto gets a marquee front line player.

Pittsburgh improves their Defence including their primary puck mover, replenishes their farm and gets some potential top 6 Wingers for Crosby & Staal(who also gets the minutes he is deserving of) while balancing the structure of their salary cap.

Too crazy?? Probably. But I still thought I’d share it with you guys.

by the_craze on May 17, 2010 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Too crazy??

Yes. I don’t even think we have enough to get Staal. There’s dreaming, and then there’s what you just proposed.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on May 17, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s dreaming, and then there’s what you just proposed.

Agreed… I thought I stumbled onto HFboards for a moment there.

leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.

by stucky on May 17, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno. I’m not usually one to foray into Dwayne’s World of imaginary trade scenarios, but could Kaberle and Kulemin be enough to net Staal? The Leafs needs are plenty, but IMO a big, skilled, 2-way centreman has to be priority one. Staal could fit the mould as a top line centre, Kaberle replaces Gonchar, and Kulemin is (ostensibly) the top 3 winger that the Pens supposedly need. I’d hate to lose Lemon, and maybe the Leafs have to take on a malodorous contract or add a decent prospect to get it done, but I don’t think I’m too out to lunch on this…am I?

by Bag O' Pucks on May 17, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t like giving up Kulemin for the exact reason that Staal has yet to prove he has number one ability, he might sure, but then we are out one possible top line winger still

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on May 17, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey man, do you live in Toronto? I could DEFINITELY use some narcotics

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole

by leafer1984 on May 17, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea wishful thinking on my part…

What do you guys think of Jason Arnott? His contract expires at the end of this year and is a big top 2 C who could be had for low.

by the_craze on May 17, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole

by leafer1984 on May 17, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

too old, too broken too much money

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on May 17, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the talk of Malkin being available is insane. He won the Conn Smythe last year!

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 17, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thye have to think about it……habs absolutely smothered them down the middle and they had NO ONE on the wings that could do anything with all the space…..if stall is as good as they say, which i don’t believe since he hasn’t done much when either corsby or malkin were out of the lineup, he could go play the second and malkin could net them a top winger + maybe a good top 2 dman

Toronto Maple Leafs: Looking at next year since 1967

by LeafFan1989 on May 17, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

no kidding. Sure, the pens werent playing their best hockey when they lost to montreal, halak stoned them and they managed to hold malkin and crosby to a goal each, but i dont expect a team to make the finals 3 years in a row anymore. thats asking alot of anyone.

But now, i keep hearing about how their wingers arent good enough, malkin should be traded, their defence is pillow soft, fleury sucks. They won the cup last year…. like PPP said, malkin won the conne smythe. Maxim Talbot scored 2 goals in game 7 of the cup final.. Letang and gologoski are turning into really good nhlers.

I dont think pitt should be worried about blowing things up just yet…. especially by trading one of the top 5 players in the game….

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on May 17, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

the pens would definetly get a sweet heart of a package for Malkin, but then you don’t trade a arguably top 3 player in the NHL without extreme circumstances.
If they trade a pivot, it will be Staal. great two way players are easier to find than generational talent

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on May 17, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

plus, if they walk away from gonchar they have some more money to work with.

i wonder where poni will end up….. i cant help but think atlanta…

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on May 17, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, I could see him reunite with Antro

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on May 17, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Certainly, they’ve had enough of him in Pittsburgh. Most of the of folks over at Pensburgh are not thrilled with the Poni – Caputi trade, which is good news for us, but I think that they overvalued Caputi, anyway. One guy actually called Caputi a ‘future star’, which is a bit ridiculous.

It’s funny though; on more than one occasion they talked about ditching Gonchar because of his age, and I almost couldn’t help offering the suggestion that they could pick up Kaberle as a replacement. I’m realistic enough to realize that it’s not a great fit, though. There’s no chance we’d get Staal (let alone Malkin – good grief), and I don’t know how much else they have to offer that really interests me.

"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"

by JP Nikota on May 18, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gonchar made Kaberle look like Chris Pronger with his “ole” defence on Moen’s shortie. I could see why Pens fans think he’s past his sell-by date.

It’s probably an over-reaction though, Gonchar’s still a very valuable player.

by The '67 Sound on May 18, 2010 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

not back to Pits?

As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.

by Redonred on May 18, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

you really think Pitt would re-sign him after his disappearing act in the playoffs? Plus they’d probably have to “poni” up more dough than $1.9M or whatever he makes now to keep him. Some team will throw money at him like they did Antro.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on May 18, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

For Malkin try:

Kaberle, Kadri, Schenn, and our remaining 1st rounders for the decade

I'm with COCO!!!

by Baseball North on May 23, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Frolov seems like he could bolster the top 6 and PP if he could be had for 3mil…

please dont ban me….

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on May 17, 2010 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

i wouldnt mind Frolov for 3-3.5 mil…..but he hasnt done much the last two seasons….

Toronto Maple Leafs: Looking at next year since 1967

by LeafFan1989 on May 17, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea. i hoping he is one of those ‘needs a change of scenary guys’ because the dude has skill. I dont see much of LA though so im not sure what other intangables are or just how lazy he might be…

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on May 17, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meh.

He’s a prototypical – or perhaps more accurately stereotypical – streaky Russian. I bet he’ll have a couple years when he’s absolutely amazing, and the rest of his career will range from OK to good. We don’t need help with inconsistency on this Leaf team.

"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"

by JP Nikota on May 18, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

He shot only 10.4% this year after being around 15% for his career. That’s 9 more goals and suddenly his year doesn’t look so bad.

He’s a guy I’d keep my eye on. You definitely don’t get into a bidding war over a guy like that but maybe he gets greedy, teams fill their needs elsewhere, and he’s on the outside looking in, needing to prove himself. I could see a nice short-term deal in those circumstances.

by The '67 Sound on May 17, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d kinda like to see the return of Pony

by A Lindros Jaw on May 17, 2010 8:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Sorry, I can't say I do.

Poni is going to command a significant increase as far as pay is concerned, and he is not the type of player we can afford to throw $3.5M + at. (I’m looking at Matt Stajan as a comparable, which is maybe stupid, but hey, I’m business-drunk right now.)

The truth is, the guy can’t hit any side of a barn with his shot, and he certainly isn’t going to hit it with his shoulders, either. Furthermore, I don’t think he’s a great skater. Not awful, but certainly not quick enough to keep up with the rushes of his current Pittsburgh linemates, which I think partly explains his drop-off in production towards the end of the regular season and his total disappearance in the playoffs. Yeah, yeah, I know. Poni’s not bad. He’s defensively responsible, can stand in front of the net when he wants to, and isn’t a bad teammate in the locker room, but unless he’s willing to take a serious discount to come to Toronto, I do not support re-signing him.

"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"

by JP Nikota on May 18, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you think anybody is going to offer 3.5 for him though?

by A Lindros Jaw on May 18, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not out of the question. He’s a solid 20-goal scorer, and about a 50 – 60 point producer.

"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"

by JP Nikota on May 18, 2010 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Stajan got $3.5, Poni could get $4MM.

He’s a better player and it only takes one dumb GM.

by The '67 Sound on May 18, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ya see this is why Burke SHOULD wait a few weeks after July 1, wait for all the crazy GMs to overpay for the big names* (Kovy, Marleau, Hamhuis, Volchenkov, Gonchar, etc.)

Hopefully after they are all gone, the reasonable contracts start to appear.

*Note: Those are some pathetic “big names”

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on May 18, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

I’ll almost surely be disappointed if we sign anyone before July 8 because it will almost certainly mean we overpaid.

by The '67 Sound on May 18, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

i practically guarantee burke signs at least 1 or 2 people on july 1st. Remember, “July 1st is our draft day” , as sad as that is…..

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on May 18, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you.

This makes me sad (not that I agree with you, but that this will come to pass).

by The '67 Sound on May 18, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

i hear ya…. its the first time ill actually be upset to watch the leafs sign people on july 1st……

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on May 18, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe he meant

July 1st would be LIKE our draft day.

Unfortunate and mostly disappointing.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on May 18, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

badumkish

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on May 18, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

if its anything like schenn and kadri i wont be too upset

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on May 19, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

ohh…. my bad….. anything LIKE THIS draft day….
fail on my part…

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on May 19, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

For a second, I thought POS was an acronym...

…but seriously, it would be insane for us to sign UFAs.
Rebuilding wise, we are closer to the beginning than the end. It’s not like we’d be a top contender if only we had that one star player.
We have lots of players with potential. Some will realize it, others won’t. Mid-season, when we know which is which, the flexibility afforded by cap space will be much more valuable.

by DaveDaytona on May 18, 2010 12:05 AM EDT reply actions  

The only thing I want Burke to do in free agency is bring in one or two physical, depth forwards. I’d be happy with one of Raffi Torres, Colby Armstrong or Arron Asham if the price is right.

I am also hoping we bring in Zenon Konopka to be the new 4th line center. He is a very tough guy, is responsible defensively and is quite good at faceoffs.

Go BRUINS!!!

by Brad Ackerson on May 18, 2010 5:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Raffi Torres, Colby Armstrong or Arron Asham if the price is right

I don’t think the price will be right for any of these guys. They’ll all get UFA paydays.

As for Zenon, he was a pretty damn good fighter, I bet they resign him before July 1. He was only 500k last year I think.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on May 18, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed Torres, Armstrong and Asham won’t be cheap.

As for Konopka, are you serious? The guy’s a scrub. He is terrible in all facets of the game that involve wearing gloves. We already have Colton Orr. It’s insane to have two terrible players in your starting 18.

Look, I like Colton Orr. He tries hard, he throws the body, he skates, he protects his teammates. But let’s face it, he’s not NHL-calibre as a hockey player and would probably be lucky to have an AHL job if he couldn’t fight. The last thing we need is another guy like him.

by The '67 Sound on May 19, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ya honestly I don’t know much about Zenon except his PIM numbers and his cap hit.

I wouldn’t want him at all. We already have our token enforcer. The rest of our “truculence” should be coming from big (and legal) hits, not fisticuffs.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on May 19, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and guys like Komi and Schenn can fight if absolutely necessary.

by The '67 Sound on May 19, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kessel too, you see him throw down last year? lookout Semin!

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on May 19, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Orr is there so that Komi and Schenn don’t have to fight.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole

by leafer1984 on May 19, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Beach can throw as well, if needed

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on May 19, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I almost forgot about that. Beach has a mean fist.

by Jo4nny on May 25, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t share your enthausiasm about Chris Higgins, and it is a terrible weak group. I don’t think Burke will be signing anybody to long term deals, who ever the Leafs get will probably only be on a 1 or 2 year deal. From your list I’d say Lombardi is the one guy that interests me, but I wouldn’t mind Burke taking a chance on Tanguay if he’s hella cheap.

by YakovMironov on May 21, 2010 8:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Malkin

Boys, do u research on the Pens and you might agree with what I’m about to say. The Pens have $41,525,000 committed to only 13 players next yr (only 2 of those D-men, Goligoski and Orpik) and with the cap only going up about $500,000 to roughly $57,000,000 that’s not much flexibility, especially when the Pens need at least 4 NHL caliber D-men, and at least 1 of those HAS TO BE a QB/offensive type Defense man if they want to take a serious run at the cup. So how many of those types of D-men are even available, let alone at a descent price? And how many teams would be able to take on a $9 Million dollar contract in a hard cap system, and still have enough assets after that type of trade to compete afterwords? Exactly why a package between the Leafs and Pens would work (in theory, probably not reality though). Kaberle is a VALUABLE commodity whether u guys like to admit or not (especially if u can package the 2nd best offensive D-man in the last decade behind only Lidstrom, with an offense led by Sid the Kid).

Honestly the Pens have no good young talent after the big 4 (Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fluery) so eventually somethings going to have to give. Why not admit that the cap distribution isn’t working the way it is, and figure out a way to change it. Plus Crosby and Fluery are out of the question for a trade (if they want to win another cup anytime soon) and considering Staal only makes $4 million a yr that wouldn’t leave much cap room if any, once u consider they’ll be taking a good player in return for him (plus u would have to replace his elite PK skills) so that all but singles out Malkin, the writings on the wall. And if a general fan can notice this, I’m sure other GM’s and front office’s have too. The Pens aren’t handcuffed, but they might as well be considering their needs, cap situation and limited teams that can, and would be willing to take on a 9 Million dollar contract (and for the record EVERY team in the NHL would LOVE to have Malkin, wether that’s realistic in a cap situation is a different story) So anybody else think a deal of Kaberle, Kulemin, Stalberg or Kadri, D’Amigo and a 2nd round pick for Malkin would work? Probably a shot in the dark, but having Kaberle at $4.5 million to replace Conchar, a guaranteed two way reliable player like Kulemin (who the pens can sign to whatever type of contract they see fit considering he’s an RFA, and Pens management already holds him in high regards thanks to Malkin trying to recruit him) and a couple of cheap young prospects with upside like Stalberg or Kadri and D’Amigo along with a high 2nd rounder is a pretty good return when u consider the circumstances. Especially that elite puck moving D-man the Pens need at a reasonable price. Plus a drop off from Malkin to Staal on the 2nd line isn’t much of loss when u consider the team as whole, and getting enough cap room to go after 1 more big free agent, or a multiple descent free agents to fill all of their holes. Not to mention some much NEEDED YOUNG TALENT after the big 3. The only other team i can see taking on that type of contract as well as giving up enough assets in return is Edmonton. But considering they’re drafting 1st overall, i don’t see them giving up a bunch of young talent for Malkin and taking on that contract too. Especially when u consider that it would have to be at least 2 out of J.Eberle, S.Gagne, MPS or Hemsky and possibly the 1st overall as well. Not to mention the Pens would still have to try and find an elite D-Man at 5 million or less.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 2:00 AM EDT reply actions  

So anybody else think a deal of Kaberle, Kulemin, Stalberg or Kadri, D’Amigo and a 2nd round pick for Malkin would work?

Dude… just… no. Please stop. I love the passion, but man you need a reality check.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on May 25, 2010 7:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome

Thanks for joining.

Two things:

  1. ‘you’ not ‘u’
  2. paragraphs

As for the deal, I agree that the Penguins need either Gonchar to return or a comparable player at a good cap hit. Tomas Kaberle could be that player. But no way in hell is he going to be the centrepiece in a deal for Malkin.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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by PPP on May 25, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Alright Boys

Name another team that could actually take on a $9 Million dollar contract and give up enough assets the Pens would need? Plus notice how i said and i quote “Exactly why a package between the Leafs and Pens would work (in theory, probably not reality though).” ? Or did u just skip that part nhlcheapshots? And considering the Pens situation i was just throwing that trade out to see if it would work based on the Pens and Leafs needs, nothing more.

And in reality u would NEVER trade a guy like Malkin, but in hard cap system it’s quite obvious the Pens aren’t going to compete for very long without cap space and depth. Would u rather have a team that competes for the Stanley Cup every year? Or have 4 superstars that disappoint every single yr because they don’t have enough cap space to acquire the depth they need?

And it’s not like Crosby, Fluery and Staal are going to be around forever, so the longer they delay this, the more they’re just waisting these guys in their prime. Somethings going to have to give eventually, especially with the Pens moving into a new building this year.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 5:28 PM EDT reply actions  

you dont simply trade a top 5 player in the NHL unless you are getting an absolute kings ransom in return. The Leafs simply CANNOT AFFORD to play said price and dreaming it is the crackiest of pipe dreams. If the Leafs made the trade it would cripple the franchise like a dozen JFJ raycroft trades and by the time they recovered, they’d have a past prime malkin on the downside of his career

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on May 25, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

In theory, any trade is possible. When I said you need a reality check, I mean the package you offered (and realistically any package the Leafs could put together) would not be enough to land Malkin. Only exception would be if we included Kessel, which I don’t see happening.

Pens cap situation isn’t nearly as dire as you might think, and Kadri, Kulemin and Kaberle aren’t nearly that valuable either.

We have cap flexibility, but so do a bunch of other teams that could put together a better package than us.

Here is a site which shows the cap situations of all the NHL teams. There are a number of teams that have more “cap flexibility” than us, just not necessarily the cash flow to make that happen. (i.e. Thrashers, Islanders, Panthers, Nashville, Columbus, St Louis) All of which could offer a better package than the Leafs.

I also think this is all moot considering the Penguins have publicly stated they have no intention of trading Malkin. Nor should they.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on May 25, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Use ‘reply’ and stop writing ‘u’ please.

considering the Pens situation i was just throwing that trade out to see if it would work based on the Pens and Leafs needs, nothing more.

And the replies you got are along the line of what Shero would tell Burke if he suggested that deal. What I would expect Shero to do rather than move a Conn Smythe winner is try to do a better job surrounding them with talent.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 25, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kulemin is a restricted free agent (and if he was as important to the Leafs as everybody claims he is, Burke would’ve at least started talking to him about a contract by now. Which he hasn’t), D’Amigo was a 6th round pick, Kaberle is turning 32 and is as good as gone. So the only real assets the leafs would be giving up, that they were planning on using would be either Stalberg or Kadri (Both who still has to prove they are top 6 F’s in the NHL) and that 2nd round pick.

So tell me again how that would cripple the franchise? Especially when Kaberle’s contract would be half of what Malkin’s making, plus they can bury Finger’s contract in the minors which would make up almost all of that $9 Million ($4.25 + 3.5= $7.75 Million, and when u consider Kulemin would be off the books too, u might as well throw in his 1.48 Million from last yr which then equals $9.23 Million, which is more than enough). Plus Giggy’s contract is done after this yr too, which is another $6 million off the books by next yr.

Not to mention the Leafs have a plethora of descent to good young talent in the minors in, DiDamenico, P.Paradis, J.Hayes, D.Mitchell, Juraj Mikus, K.Aulie, Korbinian Holzer, J.Blacker, K.Ryan, Jerome Flaake, Joel Champagne, M.Stefanovich. Seriously we have too many 2nd to 3rd line players or potential players as it is in our system, what we REALLY need is an elite top 10 point producer like Malkin.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 5:59 PM EDT reply actions  

if he was as important to the Leafs as everybody claims he is, Burke would’ve at least started talking to him about a contract by now. Which he hasn’t

He has started talking to Kulemin’s agent. He’s been talking to him for a while.

Not to mention the Leafs have a plethora of descent to good young talent in the minors in, DiDamenico, P.Paradis, J.Hayes, D.Mitchell, Juraj Mikus, K.Aulie, Korbinian Holzer, J.Blacker, K.Ryan, Jerome Flaake, Joel Champagne, M.Stefanovich.

Those guys are all just lottery tickets at this point. I wouldn’t bank too much on anything coming out of that group.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 25, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

It isnt that giving up just those players would cripple the franchise it is that it would take more much much much more to get Malkin
Use reply

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on May 25, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

nhlcheapshots

Thanks for the site, but I’m using Hockeybuzz.com, and the Pens situation is a lot more dire than u think. They’ve only got 15.5 Million available to sign 10 players, including 4 Defense man (1 that has to be on the level of Conchar considering their only 2 under contract are Goligoski and Orpik) a back up goalie, and at least 1 top level winger they need. That’s extremely bad when u consider the circumstances, especially going into a new building next yr.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 6:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Cap Geek is much better. Stop using ‘u’.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 25, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who are u to tell anybody what they are supposed to do or not? Plus you can get all of the info needed on Hockeybuzz.com or nhlnumbers.com or even nhlscap.com. Cap geek isn’t the only site u can use with all of the information needed. You’ve always had good info from all of your posts that I’ve read so far, but please refrain from dictating what other’s should or should not be doing.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

hockeybuzz is a terrible website run by a fraud who robs people blind with his bullshit trade rumours and “inside information” round here we do not support use of it in any way shape or form

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on May 25, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

My Fault Then

I’m sorry i did not know that, thanks for that info. I do not in anyway support frauds or people that just downright undermine the truth. Thanks Jared.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you can use whatever site you want to use I am just telling you that in my opinion Cap Geek is much better than all of them.

As for telling you to stop using ‘u’, it’s my site and one of the first community guidelines is that this is not HockeyBuzz and that you’re expected to make an effort to use proper English.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 25, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

uh...who's he?

It’s his site and he has the BANHAMMER!!!1

A Nation of Masochists
its done and gone, now we enter the era of getting monstrously giggy with juicy boobs and then waking up wondering if we have the scrivens -JaredFromLondon

by furcifer on May 26, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

You’re using hockeybuzz.com? Home of the fraud eklund?

Well, there’s your problem right there.

leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.

by stucky on May 25, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please don’t cite the Fraud’s site for anything but comedic value.

A Nation of Masochists
its done and gone, now we enter the era of getting monstrously giggy with juicy boobs and then waking up wondering if we have the scrivens -JaredFromLondon

by furcifer on May 26, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

but I’m using Hockeybuzz.com

here’s your problem

by birky on May 26, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

We never would have guessed…

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 26, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

nhlcheapshots

And yes i agree it’s a moot point now about Malkin, But i think the only reason the Pens came out and said that is because they realize that everybody else See’s what i did, and that’s if they want to truly compete they have to get rid of 1 of their 2 big contracts (Malkin or Crosby) and when u consider that Crosby is untouchable no matter what, that all but singles out Malkin. I still remember the Flames GM saying the day before we acquired Phaneuf that he wasn’t being traded either, so u have to take what the GM’s say with a grain of salt. They are just trying to get as much value as they can, IF they ever decided to trade him. Which probably won’t happen, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility either. Especially with their needs and cap situation.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Staal and Fleury are gone LONG before they start shopping Malkin

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on May 25, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

JaredFromLondon

I actually agree with that Jared when u are talking about talent alone, but when it comes to a hard cap that’s not a good idea. Look at this from a team perspective, for a combined price of 9 million would u rather have a top notch young goalie (who had 1 bad yr) who’s already won a cup with the Pens, Plus a top notch #2 center who’s already an elite penalty killer, comes at a very good price (which is amazing when u consider guys like Stajan are making 3.5 million) and comes from an elite hockey family. Or would u rather have 1 elite all around player who scores a ton of points, in the same mold as your #1 center? Which would u rather have team wise?

Plus nobody here’s disputing that Malkin is one of the best, if not the best player in the world. But considering he is playing 2nd fiddle to the ONLY player who could ever do that to him (think of the A-Rod/Jeter situation), and the fact that they have another elite center who could step into his spot if he ever was to leave, are 2 out of the 3 prerequisites that would be needed to trade a guy like that. And considering the 3rd would be that the team couldn’t financially afford him anymore (which is the case when u consider that it’s his and Crosby’s cap hit combined that’s backing the Pens into a corner) then u have all the ingredients needed to trade him.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 8:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I would take Malkin over Staal AND Fleury every day of the week and twice on sundays
also USE THE REPLY BUTTON

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on May 25, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Luck Then

Replacing both of those players with equal talent, and an equally efficient cap hit. Especially when u compare them to other players around the league making similar money to those 2. Not to mention they are already in cap trouble, let alone trying to replace a top notch goalie for less than 5 Million a yr and a #2 Center with elite penalty killing skills for 4 million a year.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not impossible to build a Cup winner around Crosby and Malkin (and Staal and Fleury, if you want to include them in with the big two); heck we’ve seen it already. It is difficult to keep such a team on top for long though when key pieces leave, as we saw this season. Losing Gill and Scuderi absolutely hurt the Penguins, and their depth at wing wasn’t as good (or didn’t play as well) this year.

But that’s what they pay Ray Shero to do. He’s got a strong core anchored by 2 out of the 3 best players in hockey today, and it’s up to him to surround them with enough cap-friendly talent to support them.

I know this: almost all the other GM’s in the league would much rather be in Shero’s position. You can find depth at wing and defence at cap-friendly prices (difficult, yes, but it can be done). You cannot, however, find rare talents like Crosby or Malkin very often, so if you’ve got them as Pittsburgh does, hang on to them.

leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.

by stucky on May 25, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stucky

Now i can agree with what u are saying to a point Stucky, but gambling that u can find effective players every yr to replace the guys that leave is just that, gambling. And more often than not u lose when gambling. Plus why on earth would u want to gamble with a team that has the biggest offensive talent since Gretzky leading your team? Not to mention key pieces in other area’s like Fluery and Staal? Plus you guys have been trying to make this work since both were drafted, and how many cups do u have to show for it? 1, and even that was a key loss or 2 away from elimination. And when either Crosby or Malkin go down with injuries (like Malkin last yr) it all but seals your fate that yr.

So why not admit that the cap situation isn’t working, trade Malkin now and get 2 or 3 elite young prospects + a top notch defense man and enough cap space to add depth players to your core of Crosby, Staal and Fluery? That way you’ve made your choice out of the big 2, and you’ll have enough cap space to keep the whole TEAM together now. Not just that but only get rid of the parts u don’t need anymore, instead of the other way around?

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

So why not admit that the cap situation isn’t working, trade Malkin now and get 2 or 3 elite young prospects + a top notch defense man and enough cap space to add depth players to your core of Crosby, Staal and Fluery?

That would be a great plan. The deal you proposed contained none of that. That’s why people don’t think it’s a good idea.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 25, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's Not about my trade now

The conversation has carried over from my trade idea, to if the Pens should even trade Malkin and why. Most people don’t think it’s a good idea, and neither would i in a perfect hockey world. But it’s not, and the results the last couple of years have proved that the Pens cap situation isn’t working. And this is the year that it finally hit rock bottom, especially with no good young talent or prospects after the big 4. Heck they traded one of their top 3 prospects to us last yr for Poni, and he’s only a 3rd line player at best for us right now. Bottom line is they need cap space, defense and depth. All of which can’t be had by trading either Fluery or Staal, so that only leaves 2 options.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that your concept of trading Malkin sooner rather than later could be something that Pittsburgh pursues. However, considering they are coming off of two trips to the finals, a Cup, and a 2nd round game 7 loss I don’t think it’ll be this summer.

I don’t know that losing in the second round is ‘rock bottom’.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 26, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

gambling that u can find effective players every yr to replace the guys that leave is just that, gambling.

There is luck involved, I’ll grant you that. But in my opinion trading Malkin is also a gamble, and a MUCH bigger one at that. Why not keep more of the odds in your favour by holding on to a sure thing like Malkin and dig for those “diamond in the rough” type players?

how many cups do u have to show for it? 1, and even that was a key loss or 2 away from elimination

Whatever team building decisions were made, and however it was done, even the one Cup win makes it all worth it. Who cares that they were one loss away? They got it done. It didn’t happen this year, but it’s not like they were that far away from doing it again. This is a team that, like Detroit in recent years, doesn’t need to be blown up but just needs tweaking around the edges in order to truly challenge for it all year after year. Obviously you disagree, but hey, that’s what makes talking about sports fun.

leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.

by stucky on May 25, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not totally disagreeing with you, and i don’t think the whole thing needs blown up. Trading one superstar for the cap space and talent needed isn’t considered blowing the whole thing up. They have absolutely nothing after the big 4, and this is a TEAM game where every single member of the team is needed. Plus going after any descent free agents would cripple their already bleak cap situation even more than it already is. Do u really want to be in this situation year after year?

So it basically comes down to, do u want to keep your stars and have no depth at all, or do u want to trade 1 of your top 2 players (both of which are the same type of player, elite point producers) and make a serious run at the cup year after year? Considering the amount of quality “depth” players they could get for that 9 Million. They already have a franchise player to build around in Crosby, what’s the point in keeping 2 when it cripples your ability to add depth in a team game.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reply button success!!!

A Nation of Masochists
its done and gone, now we enter the era of getting monstrously giggy with juicy boobs and then waking up wondering if we have the scrivens -JaredFromLondon

by furcifer on May 26, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kadri and D'Amigo

Plus if u don’t think that Kadri and D’Amigo aren’t top prospects, than i don’t know what is. Especially when D’Amigo was pretty much dominate in the most important junior hockey tourney in the world last yr, and helped lead the US to Gold over Canada. A Canadian team that had Kadri as it’s #1 center.

by leafs_fan24 on May 25, 2010 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

D’Amigo had a good tournament but you don’t fall to the 6th round and go to the NCAA if you are a prospect on par with Kadri.

Kadri is a good prospect, I wouldn’t argue it. But I don’t think that Pittsburgh would look at those two as kids that will help them exploit Crosby’s prime.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 26, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

D'Amigo

The biggest concern with D’Amigo has been his decision making, not his pure skill. Plus he’s 5’10 and from the US, so that all but sealed his fate as far as being anything more than a late round flier. The Leafs have actually done pretty good with picks in the 6th round or later in this decade, Stalberg, D’Amigo, DiDomenico, Gunnarson and Ian White. Especially when u consider they’ve had 3 different GM’s making those picks on the Leafs behalf since 2003.

by leafs_fan24 on May 26, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

When you look at that list it is pretty good. You have White and Gunnarson which have been solid defencemen, Stalberg who will hopefully finish putting his game together this summer and two pretty good looking lottery tickets.

You actually have two lottery tickets that had pretty good junior tourneys but it’s always dangerous to judge based on a short tourney.

And no, that’s not subliminal messaging. You got a warning, heed it.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 26, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Relax

Just like twitter a lot of sites i post comments on only allow YOU a certain amount of characters, it’s just a bad habit to try and get in as much info as needed into a small space. And seriously if YOU’re going to kick somebody out over something so small minded, that’s a pretty weak.

by leafs_fan24 on May 26, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, considering there is no character counter visible anywhere or any mention of a character limit and you received five requests I’d say the only weak thing here is your lame excuse.

Personally, I’d call it petty but seeing someone either unable or too hard headed to comply with a simple request tells me that they are usually probably going to be much more trouble to keep around than they are worth. Hope you prove me wrong.

However, rest assured that there is no character limit so you are able to follow one of the few rules here: try to write in proper English. It’s my preference but that’s the beauty of being charge. I would have thought the number of lengthy comments you wrote without a problem was a clue but here’s the official word.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 26, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am NEW to this Site

YOU do know it takes a little bit of time and effort to figure out what you can and can not do when introduced to a new website? Structure, rules etc etc. And apparently YOU think it’s easy to break habits within a couple days, and if that’s true u need to slow down. Do YOU know what muscle memory is? Exact same idea, You’ve been doing something for so long that YOU don’t even think about it, YOU just do it. Proper English i can understand, but to freak out, warn and then threaten to kick someone out over miss using the word “u” even after I’ve even explained why, is going a little overboard don’t u think?

by leafs_fan24 on May 27, 2010 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

heh

No one threatened to kick you out for not being able to break free from the insidious grip of textspeak. It is a pain to have someone ignore four or five simple requests so I sent you a private message to see if that would work. I think it has but all of these baloney excuses indicate that maybe it hasn’t.

Like I said, this site isn’t meant to cause headaches. If you are new to a site or a forum the general rule of thumb is to take a look around to get the lay of the land before jumping in. You would have noticed that no one here writes like a 13 year old girl. So, consider it a lesson learned and move on.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on May 27, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

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