Aye, Aye, Captain
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 7:00 AM EDT
in From The Branches
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PrintPrior to January 31st, 2010, I had a much different opinion of Dion Phaneuf than I have now. I thought he was a cocky, arrogant, overpaid bastard. I was extremely glad to not see him named to the Olympic team, and wished I could stop hearing from Calgary fans (and Pierre MacGuire) about how great he is. Then, Burke pulled off the trade, and I did an about face. Why? Well, initially I was angry. I had received at text from TSN at 8am on a Sunday morning, which read: "Dion Phaneuf has been traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs." That was it. He was a Leaf, and I didn't know what we had given up. I had a shot of fear that Schenn was included. Then, when I logged on here and then saw Burke's presser and learned that we'd given up players that I didn't like along with Ian White, and received not only Phaneuf but also Aulie, my whole world changed.
Something happens to a player when they don the blue and white. I still see Phaneuf as cocky and arrogant. He's still overpaid. But now, he is our cocky, arrogant bastard. And I love that I can freely use those words to describe our new captain. I feel like if someone made a 1967 joke to Dion, he'd grab one of his rocks and hit them over the head before making some statement about "Me love Leafs". Sure, this could all go down the crapper and having a 25 year old defenseman who has regressed the past two years and was unwanted in his previous team's dressing room as your captain could be a bad idea. It's hard to argue with those who have reservations on his selection based upon those facts. But he's now my captain, and I will defend him just as strongly as I defended Mats Sundin when he was our captain. I hope he deserves it.
Now on to the links.
- Leafs Announce Team-Branded Vuvuzelas
Jeffler gives us the low-down on what else the Leafs meant to announce at yesterday's press conference. - A hockey fan's guide to the World Cup
Written by DGB. - Leafs Jerseys and Phaneuf Captaincy Becomes Official
Jeffler's reaction to yesterday's press conference - and congrats to his mock-up of the new jerseys being nearly spot on. - Leafs introduce Phaneuf as team captain
The Globe's article. Linked simply because the comments are so amazingly dumb. - Free Agent Food For Thought
Leafs Fan Forever welcomes Dion and says no to Marleau and Kovalchuk. - Andy Bathgate: Ex-Leaf great class on and off the ice
This is pretty cool - Vintage Leaf Memories, who once interviewed Andy Bathgate in 1976, also had a chance to interview him yesterday. - We Are Pleased To Introduce... Two Stripes and A Patch!
Yakov Mironov welcomes Dion as Captain and tells you what he thinks about the changes to the jersey. - Toronto Maple Leafs announce Dion Phaneuf as Captain
Here's TML Fan Fury chiming in with his 2 cents. - From Mats to Dion: A New Era Dawns in Leafs Nation
The Hockey Writers notes the many differences between our last Captain and our Current one. - Stripes and shoulder patch return as Toronto Maple Leafs unveil new uniforms
The Hockey News with their coverage, but they also have a cool picture of Wendel anointing the new Captain. - The Phaneuf Era
mf37 has some interesting reservations about Phaneuf being named Captain. It's hard to fault him for any of these. He also notes that noone seems to agree on how many captains the Leafs have had. - Phaneuf Named 18th Captain in Leafs History
MLHS tells us in whose footsteps Dion has to follow. Those are some impressive names. - ESPN: No Kovalchuk for Leafs
MLHS responds to Pierre LeBrun's statement from Burke that the Leafs won't be in the bidding for Kovalchuk. - Leafs "Very Interested" in Patrick Sharp
MLHS finds another media rumour to report on.
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Man, Patrick Sharp would look great in a Leafs’ jersey. I can already see him with Bozak and Kessel on the top line!
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
Welcome
Thanks for joining.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Please don’t think I’m a troll just because I’m a Canucks fan; the Maple Leafs are my second favourite team.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
We’ve got friends from many teams ’round these parts. The more the merrier!
by WendelMadeMe on Jun 15, 2010 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
heh
Thought you might just be German.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
You definitely have to be careful assessing second tier guys on offensive powerhouses like Chicago and Washington. Playing with Ovie-Backs-Semin or Kane-Toews-Hossa can make a lot of guys look very good.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Versteeg will command a higher return than Sharp.
I guarantee we’ll start hearing more and more good things about he Chicago players coming into the offseason – not only because they just won the cup, but because Chicago would like their value to skyrocket before the impending fire sale.
To say Chicago is in a “bad spot” is silly. They just have to sell some good players, doesn’t meant they need to sell ‘em cheap. If Sept rolls around and they still are 7 M over the cap then they’re in trouble.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
they’re in a pretty bad spot, they’re already 4 million over the cap for next year, with only 14 players signed..
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
I think we’ll all be surprised at how well they’ll end up out of all of this.
Their roster is going to get smashed that’s for sure, but I bet they’ll end up with a good number of picks/prospects.
They’re going to be fine.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Plus they just won the Stanley Cup.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I can’t see too many teams giving up solid prospects and decent picks for these guys, they know the hawks have to deal, i think Chicago will end up with a lot of depth players and a lot of late (think 5th or later) picks.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
I’d be willing to bet $20 otherwise.
What’s the exchange rate for PPP internet dollars?
But seriously, you don’t think some one would give up a late 1st for Versteeg in a bidding war? More than a 2nd for Sharp? I do.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
they might.
but it’s a terrible deal if they do.
Chicago gave up all-stars brandon bochenski, matt ellison and a third round pick to aquire those two guys, and while their value is higher now, i still think it’s due to playing with better linemates than their actual skill.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
Heh ya plus the “Stanley Cup” effect often gets players sweetheart deals. See Gill, Hal.
All the talk is surrounding Byflugian, Versteeg, Sharp (and for a crazy man, Campbell) – but they still need to sign or trade their RFAs.
They could get offer sheeted for Ladd, Niemi, Hjalmmerson. There’s some more pick compensation.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, players like Sharp, steeg and buff will sell for cheapER not cheap, just in comparison to what they would get if Chicago had no cap issue
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Sharp and Brooks Laich are very comparable in my opinion.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
I fucking hate David Clarkson now
some Leaf fans need to get off his dick
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t hate the guy but I don’t want him on the Leafs.
He’s also overrated in my books.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
well thats why I hate him. some people are so obsessed with the whole “tough guy who can score a few goals” and they are laser focused on Clarkson like he is going to come in and become a super power forward
he is a very good 3rd liner who can fill in on the 2nd if he has to
nothing special
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh by the way, DGB’s article was awesome as always
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
I’m still not quite sold on Phaneuf as a player, but surprisingly, I don’t have an issue with him as a captain. The way he’s been represented as being in the locker room and the improved play of many of our younger players when he joined the team has been enough to not quite convince me, but to make me feel optimistic. Lets see how this goes.
"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."
Calgary rumours of malcontent
It’s impossible to know right now whether Dion will be a great captain of the Leafs. However, I think he’s an excellent choice because of his demonstrable leadership skills and high skill level on the ice. I do not agree with those (mainly some idiots posting on sites like TSN) who feel he’ll be a bad captain because of what happened in Calgary. Calgary was a sinking ship that had an established leadership core Dion wasn’t a part of due to his youth. Presumably he challenged the leadership structure currently in place because of the team’s plight. It didn’t work out for him because there’s only so much room at the top. Given a clean slate and the experience he already has, plus a young team surrounding him with virtually ZERO leadership in place already (minus Komisarek, Beauchemin, and Kaberle) he should be able to take control and provide the type of leadership Wilson and Burke are looking for. I am very excited for the season to start!!
Its a natural response for Calgary fans to laugh at Dion becoming captain and to say he’ll be bad. I don’t mind because we’d probably be doing the same thing if we traded a good player who became a captain. Especially if we had definitely gotten the short stick in the trade.
I also wouldn’t list Kaberle as a candidate for leadership on the Leafs…
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jun 15, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I bet CGY fans reacted the same way about Doug Gilmour (i.e. he’ll be a terrible captain).
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Gilmour walked out on the Flames mid-season (while on a road trip, I think – can’t remember). Can’t blame the fans for questioning a player’s leadership skills when he quits on the team.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Perfect example of why context matters.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I was so stoked when the Leafs got Gilmour. I was playing hockey when I found out about the trade and everyone was just abuzz. Even with the excitement, I don’t know that anyone realized just how good a player he would turn out to be.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Heard the trade over the radio in the car and everyone riding with me just started laughing. We knew right then it was a steal, just not quite how much of one.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
My memory could be playing tricks on me, but I recall the general media/talking head consensus was the trade was a HUGE steal for the Leafs. Would love to have the papers from January ’92 to see if any of the media predicted the impact player Gilmour would become.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Google archives has stories that go back that far, the only thing is that you’d have to be willing to pay the archive to read them. But if you would like to read it bad enough, it’s only like $9 or something.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh, I think I might have access to these via u of t, lemme see…
"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."
Yup! I have Toronto Star from 1985 onwards and Globe and Mail from 1944 – 2001. Lemme see what I can find…
"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."
Love having access to those archives.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah, you need to pay for it, if you don’t go to U of T any more.
"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."
I believe so. So long as your e-mail account is still active you can usually log in to their system. At least at Western,
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know how long until mine runs out,.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Aaaaaand my days has been ruined. I’m reading a Cox article from 1992 in which he suggests we trade Anderson to the Rangers for the rights to Kovalev, who we then ship with Felix to the Nordiques for Lindros.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Toronto Star Articles from Jan 3rd, 1992
http://fergus30.tumblr.com/private/701252568/tumblr_l42bn5dne31qb1iax
Globe and Mail Article from Jan 3rd, 1992
http://fergus30.tumblr.com/private/701254307/tumblr_l42bo3Ln8F1qb1iax
"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."
Solid stuff. Love newspaper archives.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
looks to me like Bob McKenzie sure though Gilmour could become the player he did on the Leafs.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
My favourite comment?
“Over the long haul, which youngster – Godynyuk or Manderville – becomes the best NHL player could decide which team gained the edge.”
Oh hindsight, you make us all so smart.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Godynyuk had some pretty good moments. I remember thinking he was the real sleeper in the deal.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
One article says that he was pretty shaken-up. He had just defected to join the Leafs, his mom was actually coming for an extended visit when he was dealt.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Read the Star’s 1991 draft previews – the one with Lindros and Neidermayer. They’re fascinating.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
this is so awesome thanks Fergus!
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Jun 15, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Jan 8, 1986
Leafs 11, Oilers 9
Also Dec 30, 1989
Leafs 7, Bruins 6 (OT)
Both were fun games.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
That December 30th game is one of my all time favourite Leaf games. Clark was an absolute beast that night.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I remember watching the 1989 Bruins game.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Jun 15, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I was playing with GI Joes at the time in front of my tv when the trade was announced. I cried because they traded away my fav Leaf Alex Godynyuk lol.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Jun 15, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
For all those who question the Phaneuf deal, just remember that Gilmour was an aging malcontent with a declining skill set (so said the Flames) who had just walked out on his team.
That worked out OK.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
It’s an interest parallel to be sure.
GIlmour had a checkered past: traded out of St. Louis after a scandal; walked out on Calgary over money. He was 29 when he landed in Toronto.
After a torrential start to his career, Phaneuf’s play has flat-lined the past few years. Likely dealt because of a huge salary. He was 24 when he landed in Toronto.
I’d be happy if Phaneuf simply re-established his game, never mind becoming one of the NHL’s elite players like Gilmour was during his time in Toronto.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I’ll have to look it up to verify whether the numbers match my opinion, but I remember being singularly unimpressed by Chris Pronger at about this age. 25 (or whatever Phaneuf is) is still pretty young.
There was a contract squabble with Calgary, to be sure. Their argument at the time was that they didn’t want to give big money to a player on the downward slope of his career. Slight misjudgement there.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
I bet the salary dollars in question in 1992 were minuscule compared to the huge numbers thrown around today…would love to see the Pronger/Phaneuf comparables…
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Pronger actually had a pretty steady progression.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I just hated him.
I always thought he was the one at fault for Fuhr’s knee in the Leafs/Blues series.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Pronger and Kypreos both had a hand in that
and they are both gigantic douche nozzels
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
On the initial contact, Kypreos dove into Fuhr, knocking him down. As Fuhr was getting up, Pronger cross-checked Kypreos in the back, driving him back into Fuhr.
It was on that second hit that his knee went. Fuhr was only half-standing and it just buckled.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
yeah, but I just like any excuse to rip on Kyper
hate that hack
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I have trouble believing that Chris Pronger was involved in a dirty play that injured an opponent.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Gilmour wanted 1.2 mil. Arbitrator gave him 750’000.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Jun 15, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
In ‘07-’08 there was “no doubt” (per conventional wisdom) Phaneuf was a better offensive player than, say Shea Weber (who posted a 6-14-20 in 54 games).
Today there’s no doubt Weber is a better offensive player than Phaneuf. He broke the damn twine at the Olympics and has averaged 48 points the last two years?
Guess what: Weber shot 3.9% in 07-08 and averaged 8.2% the past two years. Has he just “figured it out”? But his best year, 11.2%, was in 06-07. More likely, he’s been luckier the past couple years.
Dion shot 2.3% this year and 4% last year with the Flames. The rest of his career he’s been 6.5-8.5% (includign 7.2% with the Flames last year). There’s no reason to think he won’t be again next year. Assuming he keeps getting ~250 shots/year, book him for 15-20 goals next year.
He may never be a Norris candidate with Doughty, Keith and Green in the league but he’ll be good for 25 mpg, 15-20 goals, 25-35 assists and 40-55 points, and OK defence provided he’s not exclusively matched against top lines.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I fully agree that Phaneuf will bounce back in terms of shooting percentage next year. There’s no way he continues to fire at 2.3%.
If he averages his usual ~230+ shots, at 5% he’ll score 12 goals, at his career average of 6.2%, he’ll notch 14.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Let’s not mention this when he starts scoring and the “rejuvenated captain of the Leafs” articles are being written ;)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Book it, you know it’s going to happen. It’s a safer bet than wagering on the under in the World Cup.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
“Intangibles”, “heart” and “character” are much more interesting narratives to write about than dumb freaking luck.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t forget about “compete level”.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
only if he gives 110%
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
My favourite: NHL tough-guys with hearts of gold.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
He’s going to lead that puck into the net like a champ!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
that and to be top 10 in the NHL in hits, top 5 for defensemen
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I do believe the only category Phaneuf cracked the top 10 in last season was goals (he tied for 10th). He was 24th in the league in hits, 11 among d-men.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I know, but the above is my “hope”
I mean if we are shooting for 55 points out of him, why not?
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
1 more hit each and every game and he cracks the top 10.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
there we go!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I like the part in Duhatchek’s article where he questions the wisdom of Calgary trying to shake up his team by bringing in a bunch of players from the 3rd worst team in the league.
by Mirinov's Nose on Jun 15, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
From which year?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 16, 2010 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Gilmour had reasons for walking out mid-season though...
but Gilmour’s fuse isn’t nearly as short as it used to be. Age and the experience that comes with having to cope with a host of off-the-ice difficulties have mellowed him. He was practically run out of St. Louis in 1988, amid a storm of bad publicity, after he was accused of having sex with his daughter’s teenage babysitter. However, a grand jury refused to bring an indictment against Gilmour, who denies that the alleged incident took place. He found solace in Calgary but only for a while. Gilmour walked out on the Flames on New Year’s Eve in 1991 shortly after losing an acrimonious arbitration hearing. “I heard exactly how important I was to the Calgary Flames,” he says. “They said my skills were diminishing. I wanted to prove that’s not true.”
Yea I was just reading about his arbitration.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
His reaction to the trade
“Risebrough called me at home the next day. Said I’d been traded to Toronto. Nothing else, no details. I just said thank you and ’bye. Then I dropped the phone and ran leaping around the house. If there was any place I wanted to go, it was Toronto.”
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh wah. That’s what arbitration often is – tear down the other side to get a cheaper contract.
If Gilmour was never a Leaf nobody would cut him that break.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Let’s take Kulemin to arbitration. Maybe he’ll make Burke eat his words.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
What a way to start the morning.
I feel like if someone made a 1967 joke to Dion, he’d grab one of his rocks and hit them over the head before making some statement about "Me love Leafs
I actually lol’d. Water was this close to coming out my nose.
Yesterday, I posted a photographic look at Leafs captains past – if anyone would like to have a look.
Someone take that photo and make it old-timey sepia or something. He looks like the Spirit of Youth.
Can it before I drive this truculence through your faceulence and put you in an ambulance.
by Brunswick Bruiser on Jun 15, 2010 8:29 AM EDT reply actions
Plus, I think he need’s a sailor hat Photoshopped in…just to fit the thread
by WendelMadeMe on Jun 15, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Leafs interest in Sharp
ESPN had speculated a return of an affordable defenseman along with a high end prospect.
So that’s what, Gunnarsson and Kadri? Not in a million years.
We don’t have the cap space, the prospects or the picks to be trading with Chicago. Makes no sense. Stay away unless it’s a Kubina-esque salary dump of a short-term contract.
Yeah
It made more sense when we were getting the better end of the deal. For that price tag? Forget it.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Could conceivably make sense for a “so close” team like the Caps who seem to have cheap D-men growing on trees, but not for a team as far away as the Leafs.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Washington won’t make the deal because they have no guts. They’ll keep passing on impact players like Chris Pronger because they don’t want to trade their precious kids.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
They treat Karl Alzner like shit, it’s kinda hilarious if I didn’t feel bad for the kid.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jun 15, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Just won himself a Calder Cup! Woooo
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
throw some Ds on it
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jun 15, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
its the one reason they will probably never get over the hump from great regular season team to just great team
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, at some point you gotta nut up and go for it.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought we were all going to take advantage of the Hawks problems, not give them better players in return for bloated contracts. Just wait until all their second-tier talents looks for its pay-day in arbitration.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but its pretty bad the other way with some leaf fans, they seem to think the Hawks will give up VERY good players, like Sharp, for dirt cheap because the Hawks are so screwed cap wise.
The only way that happens is if no one wants said player and they have no other option.
But with Sharp, Versteeg and even Buff, there will be many teams interested in their services. Bidding war ensues
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Which is why I don’t think we’ve got a shot in hell.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, unless, of course, burke goes crazy and does trade Gunnar and Kadri for sharp
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see that happening.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup. People tend to forget that the Leafs don’t have the Hawks over a barrel; the Hawks are over a barrel but thanks to competition among bidders should still be able to extract good value for anyone but Campbell or Huet. Picks and prospects (i.e. no one that will make more than $1MM) are the ante to play, and we don’t have a lot of those to spare.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I think moving Campbell is easier than moving Huet, he’ll probably end up in AHL next year.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Campbell’s very good but that cap hit (and term) mean there will be very few bidders.
Huet’s interesting. He’s had 6 OK-to-very-good NHL seasons, and one terrible one. He is aging, but he only has 2 years left on his deal. I have trouble believing that someone with Wirtz DNA is going to burn $11MM in the AHL and I could actually see an NHL GM being dumb enough to think Huet’s worth the cap hit if it’s a pure salary dump, “Huet for a 7th” type deal. If Chicago throws in a pick or prospect they acquire elsewhere I could definitely see Huet being dealt.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Still think the play is to deal Niemi, get a blue-chip goaltender in one of their deals, and go with Huet/Crawford next year.
Resident Capologist
I only see that if Niemi asks for more than $3,000,000 though
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
Yea, I don’t know why you’d trade a guy who just won the cup for you, unless you feel he can’t continue to play that way, or he asks for too much money.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Tying that much money up in net murders their flexibility.
Niemi was far from stellar in the playoffs, his rebound control might actually be worse than Gustavsson’s. I’m pretty confident Chicago could have won the Cup if they had have gone with Huet in net; the team was just so strong everywhere else.
Niemi’s value is at its absolute peak right now. With Huet there, it’s not like they would be handing things over to another unproven rookie. Huet can handle the everyday load, Crawford takes backup duties.
And if I’ve suggested, they move Versteeg to LA for a pick and one of Ersberg/Bernier, they have another young goalie to plug in once they can get rid of Huet.
Resident Capologist
Versteeg for Ersberg/Bernier AND a pick? Do you mean Versteeg and a pick for Ersberg/Bernier?
Also, Chicago had more than enough skill to outscore their mistake, unlike the Flyers.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
I didn’t say sign him at all costs.
I don’t know if Huet could have won them the Cup, no point in speculating. I understand sell high, but if they Hawks feel they’ve got the goalie they want in Niemi and can sign him on the cheap I imagine they do so.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s an interesting play though a decidedly risky one given Crawford’s mediocre Rockford stats.
I just don’t see how they get under the cap with Huet there.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I particularly like your “sell high” thinking, especially with a goalie. The Pens should have dealt Fleury after he won the Cup. That contract is murdering them.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea, think about the wingers you could get for Crosby and Malkin with $5 million. As far as I’m concerned, Ty Conklin filled in wonderfully in 2008 when MAF had a high ankle sprain and he was signed by the Wings that offseason for a cheap $750,000.
I might add that Brent Johnson is among the best backup goaltenders too.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
Sure, but I don’t think either one is capable of making a cup run. Then again, Chris Osgood.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I really can't see Huet in the AHL
since the lockout he’s posted a 0.914 SV%, posted 20 shutouts (7th most in the league) and won 115 games.
he’s not a bad goalie, and if Vesa Toskala and Andrew Raycroft can find jobs in the league, someone will take Huet.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 15, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
it’s the salary that’s the stinker.
I think he’s a decent goalie.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
i agree
but that’s not his fault. Someone offers you more money than you’re worth to do the same job you’ve always done, do you turn it down?
I personally think salary dollars are none of the fans business, but i’m in the minority, so i’ll leave it at that.
as you said, he’s a decent goalie. if the Leafs had Huet instead of Raycroft or Toskala, I guarantee we’d all be singing a much different tune about him.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 15, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I personally think salary dollars are none of the fans business, but i’m in the minority, so i’ll leave it at that.
Can you elucidate on this? Are you suggesting contract terms not be made public?
It would certainly change how fans evaluate players….
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
That would make for a very interesting alternative history.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
basically
yes. it seems, generally speaking, a fan’s opinion seems to be heavily driven by the amount a player makes. debate about a player’s worth is far more common than his ability.
I understand why that is; in a cap league, salary matters. I just don’t think it matters enough for me.
As I said, I’m in the minority. Don’t mean to hijack the thread.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 15, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’ t think you’re hijacking it all, I think it’s a fascinating idea.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Agreed
It would change so much of the discussion.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m down with not revealing salary dollars if we still get cap hits
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jun 15, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
The one interesting article I read a week or so again was that some younger players on ELCs are willing to take smaller deals (probably in terms of potential bonuses rather than base pay) as it gives them an increased likelyhood of being called up.
On a deep team, if a player goes down to injury, you’re more likely to call up your star youngster if his cap hit is say $2M with bonuses rather than $3.5M. It works out for the rookie because they’re paid the NHL level of their 2-way deal, rather than the AHL one, so they probably end up being paid more in that circumstance anyway.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
The one interesting article I read a week or so again was that some younger players on ELCs are willing to take smaller deals (probably in terms of potential bonuses rather than base pay) as it gives them an increased likelyhood of being called up.
The Kings claim B. Schenn did this to increase his odds of playing in the NHL.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
That’s probably where I read it.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you happen to have a URL so I can enjoy the reading?
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
just happens to be posted at my website: http://bitterleaf.blogspot.com/2010/06/nhl-prospects-and-pay-levels.html
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
No, it’s not the player’s fault he took the money offered to him but once he does he’s evaluated against that figure. Even moreso in a cap environment.
Pretending otherwise is putting your head in the sand.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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not putting my head in the sand
i can easily look at Huet’s numbers and see he had the 7th most shutouts since the lockout. He’s tied for 15th with 4 other players in SV%. He’s played the 20th most minutes, his GAA is tied for 10th best.
None of that says AHL goalie. In fact, I’d argue that he’s the kind of goalie the Leafs have needed for quite some time.
However, add in the fact that he makes north of $5M and suddenly he seems less desirable, despite being a very capable goalie.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 15, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
the only reason people are saying that he’ll be in the AHL is because of his salary and Chicago’s poor cap management.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
It was an off-hand comment, I don’t actually think he’ll end up in the AHL.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Independent of salary Huet is a good goalie. When MTL traded him he had the best save percentage in the NHL since the lockout.
However, there is a salary cap. All criticisms of him arise from that fact.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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ok
so if he’s good “independent of salary”, what is he worth?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 15, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
With no salary cap: $5M wouldn’t be so far out of reach.
With one: He’s probably about $2M overpaid. The Sv% is middle of the pack and the GAA is in the top third of the league.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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i think he’s still a starting caliber goaltender in the NHL.
just wasn’t able to sort it out in Chicago.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
See, this is what confuses me about Niemi then. He took the starting job from Huet, yet everyone says that he was sheltered by their stellar defense. Somehow Huet isn’t criticized for this.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Chicago faced the fewest shots per game in the NHL this season. Their defence helped cut down # of shots for both guys.
And yet somehow Huet couldn’t hold down his starting gig?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Current truth-fact: Neither Raycroft or Toskala are signed for next year though.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair point, but my expectation is that it is likely both Kovy and Marleau will find jobs next year.
I’m not as confident Raycroft or Toskala will. Although i wouldn’t be “shocked” if some one took Raycroft for 500k backup again.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Someone will take him, but I don’t see much coming back.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
The thing of it is that Chicago has so many damn cards to play, Bowman can go in so many different directions depending on what the market looks like.
There are some moves that will have to be made, don’t get me wrong, but with the cap now turned off for a couple months he’s under no pressure until September to get back under the number. That means he can be very patient and wait for the best deals possible.
Resident Capologist
Exactly, plus they just won the Stanley Cup, it heals all wounds.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
The flaw in that plan, is that there is 28 other teams in the league with the same plan.
by CancerousRocket on Jun 15, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I know, I was being sarcastic.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I could see something along the lines of Patrick Sharp for Nikolai Kulemin
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
Kulemin will receive aprox 2.5-2.75, that saves them about 1.4 mill against the cap, not really worth it for the Hawks
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Also doesn’t really make sense for the Leafs. Sharp’s clearly a better player now but in three years, when the Leafs are ready to contend? I’m not so sure.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
From what I understand, Kulemin was only asking for that much because he was a first-liner in TO. In Chicago, he definitely won’t be on the top line, and that might make him willing to take less. Besides, Chicago can take him to arbitration; I don’t see him awarded anything more than $1.8 million annually, as he’s only scored 15 goals and 30 points in each of his two seasons.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
well the one thing is that all the “numbers” that have come out seem to be speculation other than the “we are about 1 million appart” I don’t remember (and correct me if im wrong) either Burke or Kulie’s camp giving out exact numbers
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember reading somewhere Burke was offering in the low $2M range while Kulemin was looking for $3M to $3.5M
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
Ya but the point is, that is all speculation and rumours. No one who was actually in those contract negotiations is releasing any information (nor should they really, it damages the whole process if you ask me).
All we know is that they haven’t reached a deal yet, and the dollar figures are likely the reason.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
No one is “officially” providing the numbers but my guess is both the agent and management are whispering to their favourite reporters to get their story out.
If the gap was closer, he’d likely be signed.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Ya I’m just not ready to jump on this $2m – $3.5M difference.
If each side is releasing any numbers, they’re doing so for a reason. Probably to make the other side look bad.
There’s definitely a gap. Not sure where it is or how much. Plenty of time to get resolved.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d buy that there’s about a $1M gap.
Leafs want the guy cheap and the agent wants to max out his contract. Both are probably exaggerating slightly, but I think if they were closer neither side would be negotiating through the media.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
yeah, I’ll definetly agree with the 1 mill gap thing, but that gap being 2.5-3.5 not so much
probably closer to 2-3
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I really don’t like the negotiating through the media stuff. Just get it done. Sounds like they’re trying to cover their ass in case negotiations fall through.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s part and parcel of just about every stalled contract negotiation.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
why nobody wants to be an Ottawa Senator
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com/2010/06/is-ottawa-new-edmonton.html
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
Yea, their arena’s in a city called Katana, the middle of nowhere.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
Kanata….
Katana is a sword that Leonardo from the ninja turtles uses.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
Am I the only one who wants Kovalchuk if we can sign him for 8.5 mil or less?
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
Yes.
No Kovy. Time to move on.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Burke is a sneaky devil, but unless he’s really playing the long con, nothing he’s said or done (regarding long contracts, front-loaded deals, overpaying players) leads me to believe he has any interest in overpaying the top UFA.
That being said, he may completely reverse and go for Marleau and overpay there, so who knows.
I’m just tired of hearing Kovy… I think other teams are a much better fit for him than the Leafs.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
No
Beacuse that’s a lot of dosh for one player. Now, if they throw a 17 year deal at Kovy and get him for $6M now you’re talking.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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i’m okay with both deals.
It’s almost impossible to get that high quality a forward at that age, I’m totally on board for overpaying him.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
$2.5M is a big difference. That’s a second pairing defenceman or a top-end third/second liner. That depth can make a huge difference.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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That’s over 2/3rds of a Jeff Finger!
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I’d pay him that. The cap will keep going up and as the years go by that contract looks better and better. There are only two ways to get players that good; overpay for them in free agency or tank and get them in the draft.
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
The upcoming NHLPA vote on the escalator is going to be a big indicator as to which way the cap will move. The players so detest the escrow, it wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t pass the escalator clause and the cap goes flat.
Then again, these are pro athletes we’re talking about. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of them miss the vote and the other half cast their vote for “elevator”
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I’d take him for 7.5 max
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
top 10 forward in the league, only 27 years old, i’d be willing to pay him 8.5
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
I don’t follow the Thrashers that well, but they remain the only team that Marian Hossa has played for that did not make it to the finals. I’m sure it’s all Kovy’s fault.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
to be fair, he was a thrasher for most of his career
thats kinda like faulting Schenn for not playing any playoff games
and Kovy has been a near PPG player in the 9 playoff games he has played
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
he was the only devil with ANY jump against the flyers this year.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
yeah, the Devils were brutal in the playoffs this year, its like being contenders for 10 years has finally worn off the shine
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
If 6 years from now, Schenn has only played in 9 playoff games, then we’ll talk.
Resident Capologist
eh, Kovy is a perennial 40+ goal elite sniper, he’s done his part, being on a shitty team isn’t his fault
Rick Nash has been in the NHL since 02 and has only played 4 playoff games
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I hate Steve Mason so very much.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
once again I would.
How much do you think top line players cost?
Unless you draft them and sign them to a great deal right before they have a breakout season you usually aren’t going to find them.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
Nash and Kovy have spent 7 and 8 years (respectively) losing. Losing bad, and losing often.
You think that just washes off?
At this point in their careers, they are what they are; they’re both incredibly talented players, but if either of them are your best player, odds are you ain’t winning a title.
If you want to spend 1/7th your cap to lock in to a first-round exit every year, be my guest. I’m saving a contract like that for somebody with a championship pedigree.
Resident Capologist
Steve Yzerman didn’t have a ‘playoff pedigree’ until he was 30, you saying the wings shouldn’t have kept locking him up?
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
No Cap
Entirely different.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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In Yzerman’s first 8 seasons in the league, he played in 39 playoff games. Kovalchuk has played in 9, and Nash in 4.
Resident Capologist
you can’t blame a player for bad team management and poor drafting.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
You and I are clearly on opposite sides of this argument.
I’ve played on several very good teams and several very bad ones.
The top players on bad teams usually don’t make the players around them better. The top players on good teams usually do. You always want the guy on the good team over the guy on the bad team
Resident Capologist
my point is, that good players on shitty teams aren’t usually the problem.
Marc Savard had that rap before he went to the Bruins.
Kovalchuk has had one playoff series out of Atlanta, and he was great in that one series.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
I would in a heart beat
I still love Rick Nash
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
He oozes awesome. Plus he’s a good ol’ Canadian boy!
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
he looks so cuddly
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Forwards I Would Take Before Kovalchuk, In No Particular Order
Getzlaf
Toews
Kane
Crosby
Ovechkin
Backstrom
Nash
Parise
Iginla
and I’d think about Perry, Hossa, and Mike Richards
Resident Capologist
Good luck with most of them
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
That’s not names he thinks the Leafs can get. Those are names of players better than Kovalchuk
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Gaborik?
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jun 15, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
if i wasn’t so wary of him exploding, he’d definetly be there
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
you’d take hossa over kovalchuk?
and none of those guys on your list will ever come available.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
Hossa is a more complete player than Kovy
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
And that’s not a list of players we could get. It’s a list of forwards that are better than Kovalchuk.
Add Gaborik and Thornton to the “think about it” list.
Resident Capologist
Sedins?
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
yeah, but only if you could get both of them
also Perry
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Watching them night in and night out, if I had to choose one, I would pick Henrik.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
I am still wary of how good they would be separated, I mean I have no doubt they would still be very good NHL players, but not at the level they currently operate
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
They are literally the same player. Henrik’s big year was a function of a ridiculously unsustainable shooting percentage.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Henrik is the better playmaker in my opinion. He’s like Steve Nash; he knows where everybody is and can fire off no-look passes with ease skating at full speed. The same can’t exactly be said for Daniel.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
agreed
but Daniel seems to have a bit more of a killer instinct, as it were.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
We’re talking about Sedin, not Heatley.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jun 15, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
More of an indication that Henrik lacks such instinct than praise for Daniel.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Add to the think about it.
regardless, no way in hell a guy who guarantees you 40 goals, no defence, and at best a first-round exit is worth the money he’s asking for and is a top 10 forward in the league.
Resident Capologist
I’ll take 30-40 goals from Kessel at what we pay him instead of Kovy.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
speaking of pure offense
I’d take Brad Richards over Kovy too
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Richards is a Center, and a better play maker
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
plus he’ll literally kill a man
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jun 15, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
he has the same ‘bad rap’ that kessel does about not back checking, when he really does.
how many thrashers games has anyone here actually seen? I’d venture to say I’ve watched more than anyone and the guy has hustle, when they were in the playoffs against the rangers a few years ago he busted his ass backchecking, same with this year.
A top line superstar type forward in their mid-20’s is almost impossible to aquire without drafting, look at the cost of the kessel deal. I think 8 mil is acceptable to pay him.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2010/5/19/1479596/ilya-kovalchuk-contributed-more-on
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
BTW, saying Kovalchuk is better than Malkin at defense is really high praise considering Dan Bylsma said both Crosby and Malkin could probably win the Selke if they wanted to focus on it.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
I don’t think he’s lazy I just don’t think he’s worth $8.5M
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Agreed
8.5M can be better spent. As we saw in the playoffs, it’s better to have depth than a couple of superstars.
by WendelMadeMe on Jun 15, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Fillpula
Crosby, Malkin, Staal
Toews, Sharp, Versteeg
Sense a pattern?
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Crosby, Malkin
All of those guys either make over 8 million or are on a long long term deal.
Staal and Toews signed their new deals before they were superstars and cup winners.
Sharp Filppula and Versteeg are overpaid second liners
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
And all are much better than Kovalchuk in my mind.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Sharp Filppula and Versteeg
are better than Kovalchuk??
you’re drunk.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
sharp at 3.9> Kovalchuck at 8.5
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
i disagree with this,
3.9 million for a guy who has scored over 30 goals once in his career?
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
He’s being facetious
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
i love lamp
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was a given
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Jesus
There were two ways to read that comment and you took the one that would make no sense whatsoever.
We’re talking about giving one player over $8M. To which group of players do you think I was comparing Kovalchuk?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I thought Versteeg played on the third line
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 15, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Two stars (if you had gone with Kane instead of Sharp) and a second tier player if we are being generous.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Sjostrom?
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Finger
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Kovy’s not going to win a Selke any time soon, but he’s not brutal defensively.
Conversely, not his fault he’s played on the Thrashers 99% of his career, and that the rest of the Devils team combined to suck balls.
Now is he worth 8.5M? Unsure there. But those aren’t really slights you can put against him.
Does Iggy belong on that list anymore?
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
they don’t make a lot of guys like Iggy – he still brings a lot to the table, even if he is older.
"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."
indeed, his offensive woes as of late are easily forgiven with how good all around he is
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Can you imagine 71 and 81 on the same team? Burkie, go get us 61 (Afinogenov) and 91 (Richards)!
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
Plus he fit’s with the Leafs strange K-theme (Kessel, Komi, Kule, Kabby, Kadri)
by WendelMadeMe on Jun 15, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
K-team!
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
BozaKKKKKKKKKKK
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
Kozab!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
If you have a problem.
If no one else can score.
And if you can sign them,
Maybe you can hire…the K-Team.
Can it before I drive this truculence through your faceulence and put you in an ambulance.
by Brunswick Bruiser on Jun 16, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d just like to say that I still really, really, really like the new jerseys, and Phaneuf as captain.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 15, 2010 1:23 PM EDT reply actions
agreed!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I still like these jerseys the best.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
HAH
@News1130radio Canucks Re-sign Defenseman Aaron Rome to a new two year deal.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 1:25 PM EDT reply actions
who?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Must be <700k, nothing more than a depth defenseman.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
it’ll be more than that
he was top 4 when healthy last year
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
who?
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yikes.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
though I can’t see it hitting anything more than $1 mill
but yeah.
Their defense is a mess, they’d better hope they sign someone like Hamhuis or Volchenkov or else Rome won’t just be a depth defenseman.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
who?
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And it’s $750,000 per year according to CapGeek.
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
I was close.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
My guess is that it’s in the $800,000 range because he is a solid third pairing defenseman. Although he doesn’t have the wow factor, Rome is pretty reliable and this likely means the AA experiment is over (yay!).
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
nope
Alberts is signed for one more year.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean that he’ll probably get buried in the minors making more than $1M
"Maybe subconsciously [Jason Kendall] feels the need to throw the ball in the outfield since he can’t hit it there." - AJaha25 on Kendall leading the Royals in errors
Canucks defense is soooooo thin, they have to make at least 2 signings this summer if they want to do that (I feel).
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
This is totally out of left field, and if I still masqueraded as a blogger I would write about it there, but what are the possibilities that the Leafs end up with Adam Burish?
I’m not saying I want the guy, he isn’t really what we need, but I remember thinking his comments about Pronger were idiotic (for his own safety), until I realized that he probably can’t be re-signed in Chicago and maybe has some knowledge or desire to go to a team like the Leafs who have players who can “protect him” . There are only a few teams in the league where a guy like Pronger might be deterred from starting shit wtih a player, and the Leafs are definitely one of them.
re-organize the letters in his name and what do you get?
Rubish
that is all
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 15, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Pronger gave 2 shits what the guy said about him.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
We don’t need any more players who are bad at hockey. We have enough of those already.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 15, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem with your theory is that it’s based on Burish thinking before he spoke.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Are you talking about the 13 games played this previous season; who is nothing more than pressbox filler; who only laced ’em up in the playoffs due to injuries; who has a career high mark of 9 points Adam Burish? Or are you talking about the other Adm Burish?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
When you put it that way.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 15, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
James Neal
Does anyone else think it’s weird that Dallas is qualifying James Neal after a 27 goal, 55 point campaign at the age of 22? He made 800k last year, doesn’t he deserve like, a real raise?
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
no
first you qualify, then you negotiate.
Qualifying just means that noone can offer sheet him.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate to quibble, but qualifying means Dallas is entitled to compensation if another team offer sheets Neal.
The only way to prevent offer sheets for an RFA is to file for arbitration.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Ah okay… I don’t think I know what qualifying means then.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
NVM figured it out
Qualifying Offers
The current team must extend a “qualifying offer” to a restricted free agent to retain negotiating rights to that player.
Players who earned less than $660,000 in the previous season must be offered 110 percent of last season’s salary. Players making up to $1 million must be offered 105 percent. Players making over $1 million must be offered 100 percent.
If the qualifying offer is not made, the player becomes an unrestricted free agent.
If the player rejects a qualifying offer, he remains a restricted free agent
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 15, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
ah right
I knew that, just forgot.
Basically, qualifying is the first step in getting a deal done.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 15, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with Karina that you like someone as soon as the don the blue and white. I hated Toskala when he was in SJ, then I really like him after his one good season in TO… then I hated him for obvious reasons. I hope the same pattern doesn’t occur for Dion. I have a strong feeling it won’t.. :)
Contains the correct levels of Truculence....
Im glad most nights i do nothing @ werky
burish = rubish LOL ahhhh
Kovy No plain and simple even Marleau mehhh better but no… Wait for 2011 FA crop better players….
Dirttty Dion great choice I think Burkie sees a lot of himself in Dion or wants too… I still love Stalbergs comment " He wakes up yelling at people"
Leafs intrested in Sharp ummmm DUHHHH as well as half the league no doubt…
Ottawa the new Edmonton – uhh not really cause at least Edmonton has fans not Leaf fans that live in ottawa
Jembries
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