Leafs Relinquish Rights to Joel Champagne
by Chemmy on Jun 2, 2010 9:55 AM EDT
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PrintAs pointed out by our diligent links post maker the Leafs have likely passed on signing prospect Joel Champagne which means he will go back into the entry draft. As a blogger I feel like it's my job to ask "why?".
Champagne finished with 13 points in 16 games, dropping their semi-final matchup against Saint John in 6 games. He was one of the top faceoff men through the course of the playoffs as well, taking the second most in the Q with 436; Kelsey Tessier had 559 in an extra 5 games played. Champagne finished with a 58.5% efficiency in the circle, third among players with more than 100 faceoffs taken. I would expect him to jump to the Marlies next year. - Carl Peelash
Worth noting here is that Joel Champagne at 20 years old is 6'4" and 220lbs. He's a center who's excellent in the dot and seems like a good candidate to be a third line energy guy.
Maybe as a prospect he was lazy defensively, maybe as a prospect Champagne didn't hit enough; these things are irrelevant. Brian Burke has said he wants some big kids to play his style of game and passing on Joel Champagne while handing a contract to Brayden "Playdough ankles" Irwin (to quote mf37) seems like a terrible move.
We traded Jiri Tlusty for a big kid in the QMJHL: Phillippe Paradis. Let's compare their stats:
| Champagne | Paradis | |||||||
| Season | GP | G | A | Pts | GP | G | A | Pts |
| 1 | 62 | 6 | 16 | 22 | 45 | 11 | 12 | 23 |
| 2 | 70 | 18 | 22 | 40 | 66 | 19 | 31 | 50 |
| 3 | 52 | 24 | 37 | 61 | 63 | 24 | 20 | 44 |
| 4 | 65 | 38 | 41 | 79 | - | - | - | - |
Remember that Champagne is three inches taller than Paradis and also appears to be better on the faceoff dot. I asked Mirtle to ask around on this for us so hopefully we'll hear an answer on this, but on a Wednesday morning it's hard to understand this move and one wonders about Brian Burke's plan here.
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We’ve let Champagne go without signing him, yet last draft Burke picked Jamie Devane in the 3rd round. Like Champagne, he’s 6’4". Yet while Champagne put up 79 points in 67 games in the Q with PEI and Victoriaville; Devane only put up 14 points in 61 games in the O with Plymouth. Devane has since been signed to an ELC, even playing two games for the Marlies where he recorded all of 4 PIM.
/facepalm
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I think I’ve read this somewhere before…
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by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I played hockey with Devane way back in the day, and in high school.
by The REAL Mike Richards on Jun 2, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
did he have brittle hands back then?
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
no but i recall one practice where our coach had to tape his glove to his stick, because he’d always play with only one hand. im rooting for devane, and i think in a few years he could be a potential 3rd-4th line energy guy.
by The REAL Mike Richards on Jun 2, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
WTF
Why would Burke let this guy go? Honestly, Champagne was a prospect I was excited about as a fan. Makes zero sense to me.
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patience!
I don’t like the idea of wasted assets either, but I doubt this happened because Burke forgot to sign him, or blew it somehow.
Maybe he’s a headcase? Maybe he wanted too much money? Maybe he’s a locker room cancer? I have no idea. But if Leaf management didn’t get his name on a dotted line, I’m sure they had a reason for it.
I’ll need to see evidence that they somehow fucked up here.
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He doesn’t really get to negotiate money.
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Yea
It wouldn’t be that, I’m thinking that the scouts saw something they didn’t like.
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 2, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
re: Coke Machine
That was my very first thought; it seems too careless a move for this management team.
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Do the Leafs have right up until draft day to sign him?
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No, I believe the window passed.
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by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
One reason for the non-signing may be the 50 contract limit.
According to capgeek, the Leafs currently have 38 players under contract and 6 RFAs leaving 6 spots open. I can’t imaging Burke would bring in 6 UFAs this summer though, but maybe he wants some flexibility should someone come on the market?
No clue.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I thought about the 50 contracts thing too… but you’d think they could cut someone else loose outside of Champagne.. Strange news for sure.
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Yep
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why?
It’s not like that contract was the one that kept Champagne from getting re-signed.
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We better not be. We still need to sign Kovalchuk and Marleau, sheesh.
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by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
don't forget
trading for Rick Nash and the rights to Bobby Ryan…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya, but I’m assuming Kaberle (+Mitchell +Grabbo) would be going the other way, so the # of contracts wouldn’t be an issue.
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by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
We talk a lot about the 50 player SPC limit but I’d point out that our cupboards are mostly bare and everyone on the Marlies is pretty much crap.
If we’re not signing our draft picks to keep Alex fucking Berry around then forget it; this team will never make the playoffs ever again.
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Which is why I’d imagine that there was an issue that hasn’t been addressed yet.
If not, well then I’ma be pissed.
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 2, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with that. Chemmy do they have right up until the day of the draft to get Champagne signed? I’ve read over the Re-entry rules but it’s a little vague in regards to deadlines and such
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According to a post in the Pittsburgh Gazette the Penguins didn’t sign Nathan Moon by midnight last night meaning he gets to re-enter the draft.
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Well there ya go… Fuck sakes this really pisses me off.
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From the CBA, Section 8.6, subsection e
Except as otherwise provided in this Section, a claimed Player unsigned
on the June 1 at 5:00 p.m. New York time next succeeding his draft shall be removed
from the Reserve List of the Club that claimed him.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Worst
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speaking of Tessier
it sounds like the Avs are letting Tessier go as well
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by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jun 2, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
http://twitter.com/TheHockeyTwit/status/15253605083
Champagne wanted near max rookie money, Burke wasn’t interested, and a decision had to be made by June 15th for draft re-entry
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I don’t know who this guy is and don’t trust him as a source (yet, nothing personal) but there’s a few issues I have with this explanation:
1. If it’s just rookie max vs. rookie min I can’t believe that would be an issue for a team like Toronto that’s paying players over rookie max as NCAA UFAs.
2. If the deadline is June 15th maybe there’s hope yet?
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E-mail Derek Zona. He was discussing this about one of the Oilers’ picks and he ended up being right where the club was wrong.
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Yeah I can’t see how it could be the cash either. This is some bizarre news to say the least.
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He's got the June 15th deadline wrong.
In the CBA, June 15th is stated as being the deadline for salary arbitration. Nowhere does the CBA say anything about June 15th being relative to the draft.
June 15th
Moratorium on New SPCs Begins
First Buy-Out Period Begins
Deadline for First Club-Elected Salary Arbitration Notification
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Insisting on rookie max money suggests to me that, if true, the kid and his agents are fucking morons and would be much more trouble than they are worth.
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Just so we all know
Rookie max for an ELC for the 2008 draft year is $875,000.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Last year, we paid Rickard Wallin $1,000,000.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Its not about the dollar amount though:
Insisting on rookie max money suggests… the kid and his agents are fucking morons and would be much more trouble than they are worth.
Thats just a possible reason why we let this kid go.
Jamie Devane – Two way contract with bonuses that results in a $733k potential cap hit. He scored 14 points.
Giving Champagne only $117k more for 79 points? Just give him the fucking money already.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
It suggests that we’re a stupid organization. $875K is chump change especially since we’re signing NCAA UFAs like crazy.
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I agree, I’d really hate if this was all about dollars and cents. Maybe to a struggling organization, but the Leafs? For fuck sakes they’re richer than God.
Please let there be another reason that we’re not currently aware of, like he has a coke habit or he refused to sign with the Leafs because he’s a rediculous Sens fan or something.
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by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I can’t imagine it being money. Makes no sense. There has to be something else.
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by puckurgently on Jun 2, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
So let’s rule out money and playing ability. If this kid isn’t the world’s single biggest asshole this is a stupid move on our part.
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agreed, but even then it makes no sense. especially considering the Leafs still hung on to Stefanovich, who is rumored to have a motivation problem. the Leafs still have the rights to that champion couch thrower from some mid-west uni, plus the guy who stole a car to get to another strip club. (sorry, can’t be bothered to look up their names…)
it’s not like they’re overflowing with well behaved young men .
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
ROSSIE POLE TO POLE ROSEHILL!
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
Something doesn’t wash, here. We’re cool with Matt Frattin doing just about anything, and we’re cool with paying Irwin more money, and we don’t want Champagne? Did he sleep with someone’s wife?
"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"
maybe he wasnt bat shit insane enough for a bottom 6 player?
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he didn’t pass the “If you had to be any animal, what would you be?” interview question.
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by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Kid wants to be a dung beetle….what the fuck?
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
So that means he likes to go to the dirty, shit areas of the ice.
Nice
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
or it means he likes to collect poo and roll it around in big balls while standing on his hands
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
A Liger. It’s pretty much my favorite animal. It’s like a lion and a tiger mixed… bred for its skills in magic.
Burke: Get this kid out of my office.
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by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotta weigh in here
None of the NCAA picks we’ve made that are still playing in the NCAA have been signed for any money… and they don’t have to be until they elect to leave school.
Keeping a draft pick like Frattin costs the Leafs absolutely nothing, so his merits as a headcase are irrelevant to this point in proceedings.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Right. NCAA picks don’t “expire” until they leave college.
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30 days after the end of their college career.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
or immediately if they quit college
in order to turn pro.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I suppose
that would still be after 30 days… nevermind my last comment.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
The main point stands.
I don’t know why I didn’t put 2 and 2 together.
"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"
i’m assuming “college career” is defined as graduation or a stated intent to leave the school to go pro, and not the end of the NCAA season…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
From the CBA, Section 8.6, C, i
If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19 is a bona fide college student at the time of his selection in the Entry Draft, or becomes a bona fide college student prior to the first June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft, and remains a bona fide college student through the graduation of his college class, his drafting Club shall retain the exclusive right of negotiation for his services through and including the August 15 following the graduation of his college class. The Club need not make a Bona Fide Offer to such Player to retain such rights.
Long story short, it depends on when he graduates from college.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
house league super star Tlusty?
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank god we traded him for a player who scores less than a draft pick we threw in the trash.
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So it could be worse than just simple behavioural issues
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That’s why I’m hoping it’s blow or steroids.
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by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
There's another thing to think about here
Champagne was traded twice in his QMJHL career. While to outside perspective it looks like that was to help the teams picking him up, it could also point to issues with him in various locker rooms. He isn’t being held on to for his leadership apparently… and he isn’t seen as enough of a key cog for the teams to hold on to.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Victoriaville did pretty well in the Q playoffs after picking him up.
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Yeah he was
dealt from Chicoutimi to PEI, then to Victoriaville…. he played an increasing role on all 3 teams, Victoriaville intended to go deep in the playoffs by adding him, I just think the fact that he bounced around a lot might indicate something else we’re unaware of.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
That the teams he was on sucked and knew they’d get back good, younger talent for their player they saw making the jump to the pros since he was too old to play in the Q anymore?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I can see where you’re coming from, but considering that you also said he “played an increasing role on all 3 teams” whatever those reasons are for him being traded, it seems to me his hockey skills overcome it.
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by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he grew up in one of those uber-franco, Toronto-hating homes?
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by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe someone on burkes staff caught him wearing a habs jersey during their playoff run
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by Matt_Roberts on Jun 2, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
But can’t that include like some $2M+ in potential bonuses? Maybe that’s the part that Burke wasn’t interested in.
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by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure, kid. We’ll give you $8m if you win the Conn Smythe. Report to the Marlies on Wednesday.
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by puckurgently on Jun 2, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Great. Give him every bonus possible. We’ll all high five each other until our arms break if he hits any of them.
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Bonuses count towards the cap next season.
If he’s asking for stupid bonus money and we give it to him, and he manages to make the team out of camp as the 4th line centre, we could end up having a cap hit of a mil or two for a rookie 4th liner. How is THAT good asset management?
The Leafs have approximately 27 draft picks in the last two rounds of this year’s draft. If he’s so damn important to our future, draft him again.
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I think i’d be double pissed if they drafted him again.
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by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
We could have a cap hit of a mil or two for a rookie 4th liner for one year until the CBA is fixed.
Or we could lose an asset entirely over essentially chump change.
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I thought about that but no way that kid makes the team anyway.
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its not the money
if the prevailing wisdom is that this is money-related, then maybe Leafs brass just got a bad taste in their mouth. Maybe Burke didn’t like having to jump through hoops for a kid he’d projected as a checking centre already holding out for more cash at 18 years old.
I’m not trying to badmouth the kid or anything, but like I said earlier, this is hardly a smoking gun. I’ll need more than this before thinking they fucked up. For all we know, Champagne’s the one to blame here.
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Oh no we’d overpay a prospect and give him $875K.
We pay BRAYDEN IRWIN 900K
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BUT HE’S LIKE 6’5!!!
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
So am I in 5" heels, only I could skate better.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Have you seen Brayden Irwin skate?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Can’t youtube at work but IIRC is this the tall lanky kid that made Jason Allison look fast?
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jun 2, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
yes, his stride is also as smooth as 100 gritt
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
right
now I remember
I withdraw my question
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jun 2, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe Burke is hoping to use this guy like an off speed pitch, with Stalberg, Kessel, Bozak and Kadri flying around the other team will just be perplexed and stunned when choppy mcsluggo skates by
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
choppy mcsluggo
don’t ever change.
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by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe its just me
But I’m not really that upset about this. The kid isn’t a superstar or anything. Its a nothing move, we are just pressed for Leaf news and want to make it something.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Jun 2, 2010 10:18 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
It’s a small aspect of asset management which I think we can all agree is a huge reason why the Leafs suck.
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Agreed. If anything, he could be packaged in a future trade. He has impressive numbers.
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They suck because they let Joel Champagne go? When did he become a star? I think we all need to take a step back from the ledge and stop over reacting over this
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
by leafer1984 on Jun 2, 2010 10:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We don’t have a deep or particularly talented prospect pool and you’re in no way upset that one of our best prospects is getting re-drafted?
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don’t worry, we can always draft him again!
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
As of right now, no. If in 2 years he is a good player, then yes.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Jun 2, 2010 10:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is a stupid way to look at it. We just lost a talented player for nothing.
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Best Prospects?
You’re kidding right? Champagne is nowhere near one of their best prospects. I saw him play at the Rookie Tourney in Kitchener two years ago and to be blunt, he was the worst skater on the ice.
Not signing Champagne will have the same adverse impact not signing Jonathan Zion and Miguel Delisle did at the end of the day.
“one of our best prospects” refers more to the point that the leafs arnt terrible deep at top end talent and that we have to make the most of the bottom end dudes
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
…so that means signing a guy who they have determined, in their estimation, can’t play at the next level?
I get not having top-end talent prospect depth. I do. But I don’t see how that means the team should sign a ‘fringe prospect’? Will that somehow solve the problem of not having elite prospects? It may but I doubt it. They have watched the kid for two years now. I think they know what they have and what he will amount to.
Not signing players drafted out of junior happens quite a bit. The uproar when the Leafs passed on Zion and Delisle was similar (and they both had very good numbers with the 67s) yet that turned out to be the right decision . This will too. Champagne cannot skate well enough to play in the show.
It’d be good to hear it from the Leafs.
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Hockey’s Future doesn’t have Champagne ranked in the Leafs’ top 20, but I think that’s erroneous. He’s better than Paradis imho, who is ranked 14th.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
hockeys futures is so scattered with their prospect rankings, i mean i know Hanson is nothing special but behind ryan and blacker? i mean the guy did play in the NHL
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by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Champagne's Skating
has been his biggest problem since well before the draft.
It has been stated as the main thing that would prevent him from making the NHL.
In all likelihood I think the Leafs don’t think he’ll make the NHL as a result of poor skating. Yes he’s large and physical and good at faceoffs, but if he skates poorly that won’t mean a whole heck of a lot.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
really?
Look at the other players Burke has signed – poor skating skills seems to be a common theme.
Burke thinks he can improve Irwin’s skating, but not Champagne’s??
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by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually can't compare Irwin's skating to Champagne's that easily
having not really seen either for a long period of time.
If there are serious flaws in the skating stride of Champagne, that they’ve been working to rectify, and he isn’t improving under the watchful eyes of the Leafs training staff, then maybe they also think he’s not that “Teachable”… who knows… I think it’s a bit of all of these things, not just one of them.
I sincerely doubt he’ll turn into a perennial all-star… and probably a marginal NHL player at best, I dont’ think it’s a huge deal either way.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
sure but honestly Irwin is the worst skater I’ve ever seen on the ice, if Champagne’s worse than that, how did he even make the Q?
Maybe not a huge deal in terms of star impact, but throwing away a prospect for nothing seems like an obviously bad thing to do.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
But it isn't nothing
it’s money… despite how we phrase it, $800 K is not nothing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
It wouldn’t be 800k unless he made the club.
It’d much more likely be 65k or whatever. If he’s actually good enough to make the club then by God pay the man.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Brayden Irwin
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
This is the correct answer for any of our prospects who claim to have poor skating ability.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Not like Luca is Speedy McBlazingskates either, and he was worth Poni.
Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski
by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
correction, worth 30 games of poni!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
For some reason Leafs management seems to favour big bodyness over skating ability, maybe it’s something they feel the can teach? Not sure what process is necessary to improve skating ability but I sure hope the Marlies can teach it.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
I’ve reached the same conclusion as you on this, which is why Champagne is so perplexing to me. If the worst flaw anyone can point out in his game is his skating… then what’s going on?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Coke & Hookers or steroids. Only explanation I can come up with.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Complete guess, but perhaps Burke and his scouts have reached the conclusion his skating will never get to a point where he could play a regular shift in the NHL.
Combine that with his expected production in the NHL (if we use the old divide point total in the Q by 3 formula, he’s about 25 points), his projection as a 20 point faceoff specialist who can’t skate may not warrant further investment on the part of the LEafs.
Resident Capologist
he also seems to have some idea what to do with his size at a pro level
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, and his hands are 1000% better than Irwin.
Just reiterating Karina’s point about them liking big guys that aren’t really great skaters, which furthers speculation around what the hell happened with Champagne.
Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski
by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
good thing they signed Brayden Irwin and drafted Devan and barron smith then
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Smith is a blue liner
Champagne is a Centre. Unless they planned on playing him on the wing these really aren’t the same.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
they may not sign Smith before the deadline a year from now either.
When you draft a “project” part of why you sign them is because they’re improving… if they don’t… you don’t bother wasting money/time on them. For all we know, a year from now we won’t sign DeVane or Smith.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
correct me if im wrong, but isnt skating pretty important for every player on the ice?
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Less so
for a stay at home blue liner than it is for a centre.
The centre has to get from one end of the ice to the other relatively quickly… a stay at home blue liner covers maybe 3/4 of that distance with regularity.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
well yes, but a bad skater for a center is also different from a bad skater who is a defenseman
people say Kaberle is a fantastic close to league best skater for a defenseman, but he isnt in the same category as the leagues best skating forwards
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
but Champagne’s main value was as a Centre… i.e. faceoffs, points, etc. Maybe his use as a winger or D man would be less pointed…
I really don’t see why I’m defending this choice, I just think we’re formulating the issue in a vacuum. I’m looking for a reason I suppose… because I’m assuming there was one.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
No, they suck because there doesn’t appear to be a logical reason to let this asset go. Much like many other assets that they have either let go, traded at their lowest point, bought out stupidly, or traded needlessly. It’s not about Joel Champagne it’s about a pattern of behaviour.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
and our behaviour
is to jump on the management the first chance we get when we don’t understand or know any of the details and//or facts to why this decision is made but believe we have the right to call it regardless, a bad move. Shouldn’t we step back and hear all the facts before proclaiming this is a typical dumb Leafs management move? Maybe in the end it isn’t or maybe it is… what can you do about it?
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
there is no more info, thus we are speculating, its what sports fans do
all signs point to this being a dumb move,
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
If you read about half the posts here, you’ll see we mostly are saying that “unless there is a reason we don’t know about, this is a stupid move”
We clearly don’t have all the answers. Needs more info.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Speculate
People are saying it’s a bad move if there’s no good reason. I think that’s perfectly valid.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
so.. to Speculate
something in a negative light must be easier for some fans than others? I think to make a big stink out of this move for a marginal player prospect is rather… I don’t know, silly? Mountains out of mole hills maybe?
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
We’ve got nothing else going on.
Plus, we haven’t had a chance to criticize leafs management in a while, they kept making smart (or at least logical) moves.
This is the first sort of “Uh what?” move (non-move really) in a long time.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
i remember the day we signed jeff finger too
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
Oh Fletcher, you were even wackier the second time around.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Hollweg…ugh
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Mayers for a 3rd…
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 2, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Some fans are curious about why teams do certain things and prefer some sort of justification over “Leafs know best”.
He’s certainly not anything to write home about.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I think it was rather fast that many dumped on the management rather quickly for a “not anything to write home about” prospect. It kinda sounds a lot like what Burke said what we fans are like… the smallest non-significant moves stir an uproar in the fan base. Head of nail, meet hammer.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
The other options are
1. Talk about Kaberle
2. Talk about Kulemin
3. Not talk about Leafs at all, and actually do real work.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
TRADE GRABBO!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
wait
what’s that behind the strike through?
I’m not sure what that means.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought about it being an option, then realized it would never be taken seriously.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Look, you can either sharpen a pitchfork or hold a torch but please do something because THIS DAMN INTERNET MOB IS ASKING QUESTIONS OF KING BURKE AND HIS APPARENT INSANITY! HE’S CLEARLY LOST THE PLOT! BRING BACK JFJ!!!
WE’RE GETTING ANSWERS OR WE ARE GETTING HEADS!
WHO IS WITH ME!!!!?
There, now you can say people are flying off the handle without sounding ridiculous.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
It kinda sounds a lot like what Burke said what we fans are like… the smallest non-significant moves stir an uproar in the fan base. Head of nail, meet hammer.
“Tonight, on the National, Brian Burke reveals a shocking discovery: Passionate fanbases are interested in the minutiae of their team’s day-to-day operations. More on what that means for the NHL, after overtime.”
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I was thinking
Bored fans discus latest Leafs news because there hasnt been a damned thing happen to their team in months and are sick of the same crap day after day
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
he was tied for 11th in overall points in the Q.
he put up 7 points in one game. the second highest single game point total in the Q this past season.
he’s in a 7 way tie for second most goals scored in a single game with 4. Stefanovich also potted 4 and is one of the other 7…
For players with 1000+ faceoffs, he had the third best faceoff winning percentage at 58.5%
The only thing you could find lacking is his 70 hits, which tied him for 102 in the league, or his plus 8 which put him at 41st.
I don’t think this is digging for news, it stinks.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Good stuff.
I think for anyone who’s a major fan of the Leafs and has looked over their prospect pool more than once, this is pretty big news.
A daily Leafs discussion where I do most of the talking Maple Stir-up
And now I'm on Twitter! TweetUp
Are you insinuating that because I don’t particularly care about this, that I’m not a major fan?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
by leafer1984 on Jun 2, 2010 10:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
TURN IN YOUR CARD!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Ohhhhhhhhh fight fight fight fight
*flicks light on and off
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL
The fan police just got called out ;)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
My fanship is never in question
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
by leafer1984 on Jun 2, 2010 11:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You’re suspect until you change your avatar.
p.s. I am changing it every day until it goes back to a Leafs related one :P
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I will change it July 12 or until Italy gets eliminated, whichever comes first.
Cue the “it will be the latter” joke
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
by leafer1984 on Jun 2, 2010 11:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No
Cue the “let’s see what PPP puts as Leafer’s avatar” every day until July 12 or when Italy gets eliminated.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
a lovely picture of drogba would be appropriate
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
YES
it’s been a long time since you’ve messed with someone’s avatar
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
The low hit totals
might have a lot to do with his poor skating, and a lack of agression…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think it’s nothing. Our prospect pool on forwards is not nearly as deep as we’d like to think it is. Clearly we don’t know the details why he wasn’t signed yet, but this is just another asset we let slip through our fingers.
We always praise Burke when he “finds a free wallet” in signing FAs without losing picks. Well, the opposite just happened.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
You know who else put up great numbers in the Q and was a great prospect? Brent Aubin.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
by leafer1984 on Jun 2, 2010 10:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was sure you were going to say Hitler.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jun 2, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
We haven't
Godwin’d anything in awhile
should we start throwing Hillier around again?
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jun 2, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
As a Leaf fan, I’m more then confident that this is going to come back and bite us in the ass in the near future to some degree
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jun 2, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
no doubt The NHL will fine us a 4th round pick for having the audacity to not sign our previous 5th rounder pick.
We’re going to get Frogren’d again
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
The illustrious career of Jonas Frogren:
Signed as a UFA.
Cost us a draft pick anyways.
Was terrible.
Has returned to Sweden.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
another glorious footnote in leafs history
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jun 2, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
forgot
inspired unfunny techno viking jokes!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
He’ll be drafted this year by Boston and be on a line with Taylor Hall.
100 point player Joel Champagne.
Hockey Gods can be a real bitchmistress.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
why cant the hockey gods allow that, then also allow kessel to score the game 7 ot winner against boston in the 1st round this year
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jun 2, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Leafs are going to trade up to get that #4 Columbus pick and take Champagne fourth overall. That’ll make him seem way better than he is…
That’s exactly what they’re going for.
A daily Leafs discussion where I do most of the talking Maple Stir-up
And now I'm on Twitter! TweetUp
by maplestirup on Jun 2, 2010 10:34 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I dont know how I feel about this but I damn well better hope Burke has an explanation. And I damn well hope someone asks him the next time hes on the radio.
hopefully we get that explanation soon, as in, today.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jun 2, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t hold your breath.
Unless we somehow get Mirtle an interview with Burke, I can’t see any of the media types actually asking a question like this which would be of interest to the fans.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe burke convinced him to retire?
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:40 AM EDT reply actions
on the bright side
HEY LEAFS NEWS!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
not too deep, but it can stand on its own
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
what does not kill you will only make you stronger
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jun 2, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s pretty weak when we’ll take “news” as being a non-signing.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope Burke didn’t just wake up this morning and go:
Shit, wasn’t there something I was supposed to do yesterday?
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually I kinda hope he did… I would rather he drop the proverbial ball rather then knowingly and willingly make a stupid-ass move
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jun 2, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
he was too busy being vague on the radio
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Or answering with Kessel responses to questions that had nothing to do with him.
Interviewer “So Brian we heard you had eggs and bacon for breakfast this morning, is this true?”
Burke “And that’s like the Kessel trade, you’re all going to know! Everyone is going to know! You media guys make a big deal of it”
A daily Leafs discussion where I do most of the talking Maple Stir-up
And now I'm on Twitter! TweetUp
So true, anytime anything vaguely mentions the words “Boston” “draft” “pick” “rebuild” or “Kessel” he goes off on his go-to rant.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Hahaha
A daily Leafs discussion where I do most of the talking Maple Stir-up
And now I'm on Twitter! TweetUp
he was probably out drinking with Tallon
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jun 2, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
was that a ritz? thats the best damned cracker i eva had!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
So does this make our new salary cap expert Assistant GM Claude Loiselle 0 for 1 now?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
If it was his cap-management decision, yes.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
a little early for that, but it doesn’t look good…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
hehe
“This orientation is taking forever. I’ll never get my other work done…oh look free drinks!”
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
i just noticed
in the pic above, the guy is wearing a Yankee’s shirt…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 11:08 AM EDT reply actions
close
Mets
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
pop a bottle, let yo body wobble
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
doh
off to get more coffee…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
But
they never win.
As for Champagne I don’t know why you’d give up on a guy who did this
A Nation of Masochists
its done and gone, now we enter the era of getting monstrously giggy with juicy boobs and then waking up wondering if we have the scrivens -JaredFromLondon
That’s exactly right. We’re not so stacked with prospects that we should be saying “nah” over $100K or a bad attitude. Bring the guy in, if it doesn’t work out let him go after seeing what he has.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Another thing to remember
Champagne was not a Burke draft pick, maybe he felt no attachment to the kid or his agent. That seems to matter to Burke a fair bit. Maybe Burke felt he didn’t want this kid taking up space on the long term roster if he isn’t a long term fit.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
None of that remotely comes close to negating the fact that it would cost the Leafs essentially nothing to sign him for a year and try him out.
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jun 2, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Per the CBA, he’d have to be signed to a 3-year ELC.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
oh no think of the horrors
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
worst comes to worst can’t they just buy him out anyway?
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jun 2, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
just send him to the ECHL if you hate him that much.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
take THAT reading!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
He’d be on an automatic two-way contract with the Marlies and make like $65k
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
yeah
just bury him in the AHL or something then
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jun 2, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Him and Finger can be roomates!
WWGRD? (What Would Gary Roberts Do?)
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 2, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to hear from his own mouth if that’s the case.
Tlusty wasn’t his pick either, but at least he traded him for a prospect (who knows if Paradis will pan out, but that’s not the point)
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Funny though, if you think about how much Burke chirps on “finding a free wallet on the street”. It looks like Burke left his wallet on the subway in this case.
its hard to keep track of so many wallets
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh I used the a very similar analogy higher up in the comments.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm
Would Champagne have been eligible for another year in the Q next year?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 11:45 AM EDT reply actions
Not with a pro contract.
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by puckurgently on Jun 2, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m reaching here, but I am wondering if this had anything to do with not signing him.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Money makes no sense as an explanation since this kid would have virtually no chance of making the club for at least 2 yrs and he’d be on a 2-way deal, so he’d make peanuts. And if he would be expected to make the club, shell out the extra $100k.
There must be something else. This kid is a bit of a hot potato as others pointed out.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 2, 2010 11:49 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
How many people here have actually seen Champagne Skate?
How many can say he’s faster than Irwin? or Caputi?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I think we’re losing sight of the point. Lost an asset for nothing, we can’t understand why, and we’re upset.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
On a team like the Leafs
where money is no object and the cupboard is so bare giving up on a prospect boggles the mind
A Nation of Masochists
its done and gone, now we enter the era of getting monstrously giggy with juicy boobs and then waking up wondering if we have the scrivens -JaredFromLondon
Then why are we ripping on
DeVane, Smith, and Irwin?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Because we ran out of pointless speculation on why he was let go.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
So instead
we rip on our “prospects” who are apparently so valuable we have to bitch about the guys we lose?
Would you care if we do the same thing to Barron Smith next year? I certainly won’t.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not taking this discussion nearly as seriously as some people might be here.
Just sayin’, i’d like to understand the logic behind letting him go, that’s all.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think its a matter of comparison, not necessarily “ripping” on other prospects. Champagne was seen as more valuable than Devane, Irwin, or Smith, yet we let him go. Personally, I don’t think it’s a big deal, seeing as he finished 11th in Q scoring while being older and far more physically mature than the rest of his competition. But it seems to go against Burke’s philosophy, and people want to know the reasoning behind it.
You mean crawl? lol. Jokes aside Joel’s first 3 to 5 strides aren’t impressive. He hasn’t exactly improved in that area over the last years, which is a concern. He’s got an awkward stride. North to South he’s average, but east to west not very impressive.
Hands improved alot over the years in the Q, vision as well. Above average without the puck. Obviously great in the dots. Big body for creating traffic in front.
For a big guy he’s not what you’d call truculent.
He’s a good guy I hear. Never heard anything about locker room cancer, or anything negative.
That 50 player max is killer. I’m sure management has looked this over, well, you’d hope.
Leaf related ulcers, 34 years strong, and growing.
by Halifax Hockey Hooligan on Jun 2, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m sure management has looked this over, well, you’d hope.
They definitely have I just wonder what their thinking is behind it.
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by PPP on Jun 2, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody seems to care this much
about Rickard Wallin… lost asset for nothing… and he was worth a lot more than Champagne.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
who?
A Nation of Masochists
its done and gone, now we enter the era of getting monstrously giggy with juicy boobs and then waking up wondering if we have the scrivens -JaredFromLondon
exactly.
As one of the people that has spent a lot of time touting Champagne, I agree that it doesn’t work for me and it’s not a decision I would have made… but it happened and in the grand scheme i don’t think it will matter much.
For all we know he doesn’t get drafted and we sign him as a cheap free agent later… who knows.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
He was also an asset gained for nothing.
No draft pick wasted.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok then what about half the Leafs draft picks
from the past 10 years that nobody gave a crap about losing because they played in Europe and we never signed them… I just think the level of indignation is a bit over the top.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Vorbiev woulda been good too
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
One guy...
and what about Leo Komarov? Roman Kukemberg, Maxim Semenov, Jan Steber, Pierce Norton?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Komarov is the only other one I thought might make the NHL, as an at best 3rd line agitator
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
in other words
who, who, who, who, who…?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
A bunch of guys we drafted
and never tried to sign… and they faded to obscurity… My point is… we all need to get over it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
when the Leafs give us something newer and more tangible to discus then we will be all over that
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is I’m sick of talking about Kaberle.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
here's a question
how many of those players were left unsigned in a year where PPP was in existence?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
All of them remain unsigned
last I checked…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
so
i can’t ask a question as to why a prospect wasn’t signed, because over the past ten years, it hasn’t been asked enough?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly. Also, you can never ask me why I have blood on my hands after my trip to San Jose because you’ve never asked me why I have blood on my hands.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
This is a rec
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 2, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The Leafs have no say in losing players to Europe. They had a say with what happened to Champagne and did nothing.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I'm sure if they were willing to pay players in Europe
enough money, they’d come over to North America… they also had a say in whether or not they drafted said players.
If they don’t think they can sign players from Europe, they shouldn’t be drafting them.
I think it has a lot more to do with occasions of not WANTING to sign them than it does the players not wanting to sign when the Leafs offer them money.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
This is the first piece of ACTUAL player-related Leafs news since The Monster was signed.
After Burke talking about re-stocking the cupboards, we finally have a GM who we think we understand, and then he goes completely against pattern and leaves a prospect unsigned.
I don’t think anyone’s indignant, just perplexed and trying to debate possibilities of what’s going on behind the scenes.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s the first thing management has done in a while that i’m like
“uh, what?”
If Burke can explain this in a rational fashion I’ll be appeased.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt we’ll get any explanation.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that's the issue
It’s not so much about Champange as it is about Burke.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 2, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Bingo.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
the last 10 years...?
that’s a bit of a reach.
considering that building a team post-lockout is a little different, and that the Leafs of the late 90s and early 00s were in more of a “win now” mentality, i think indignation for missed/lost picks over the past ten years is more than water under the bridge.
besides, I’m not reading this as people picking their spots, so much as an honest curiosity as to why Champagne wasn’t signed…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that you, Shack23, and a few others are conflating asking questions with being ready to burn down the ACC.
People are curious about a prospect that seems to have a lot going for him being let go for nothing. The Leafs have a history of wasting assets. We want to know if there is a specific reason for doing this or is it a part of a continued pattern of behaviour.
If it’s his skating – and I am someone that doesn’t believe that you can improve skating all that much if at all once a player’s in his 20s – then how bad is it that they ALREADY think he’s never going to pan out into anything of value to the organization (even as a AHLer) and how the hell did he get so many points in the Q?
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Asking for an explanation and proclaiming this is a stupid move are two different things tho
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
well
there are a few people who are fans of hyperbole
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t think it’s hyperbole to say that draft pick of the Leafs who was a better than PPG player in his last two years of junior but goes unsigned, despite it being common knowledge that the Leafs aren’t exactly overflowing with depth, is a stupid move…
on the surface, it is. that’s what makes it so interesting to me…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
bringing in statements about “real fans” is a bit of hyperbole.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody said "real"
the word used was “major” which just becomes an argument in semantics.
framed in context, what he said described me as someone who I would not consider as being a “major” fan either, and truth be told, until I looked up Champagne’s stats, I wasn’t all that bothered by the non-signing either…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Champagne’s stats were posted in the story above.
Making the statement is a bit over the top, hence, “hyperbole”
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
semantics
and yes his stats are in the post, where they rank within the Q is not…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s an implicit line of, “If this was unintentional/poorly justified, then it was a terrible move.” I think everyone in this thread would be happy to change their tune if he gets busted for coke and ’roids tomorrow.
Yeah because then there would be an explanation.
The funny thing is, the “Oh, he sucks” brigade are speculating just as much.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
gimme 5
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
This
Not to mention, his hands of stone and the fact that he is 30 years old compared to Champagne being 20.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
because walin is the best hockey player he ever will be, Champagne could (read not really possible but stranger things have happened) become the next jason allison
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Lol
and I don’t want the next Jason Allison on our team.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
thats jason “almost a ppg with the Leafs” allison to you!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Other than his shootout attempts, I actually liked Jason Allison
I might be alone here
Boo hoo!
by Chris Stoikoff on Jun 2, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
if you dont like allison HE WILL RIP YOUR HELMET IN HALF!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Guess What
I don’t think the Leafs will sign Tyler Ruegsegger or Chad Rau when they’re done with College either.
I patiently await the rampant indignation.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Probably
And I don’t particularly care either way.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Correction
Houston… he hasn’t played an NHL game yet. 38 points in 79 AHL games this past year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He's like
Jeremy Williams… who I also don’t really think I’ll care about.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Good for you.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
were they 6’4 220lbs faceoff specialists that scored over a PPG in jr?
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
No they were leading scorers
in the NCAA… one of whom played at the WJC for the US and did reasonably well, and another who had over 40 points in a season on the same Denver team as Tyler Bozak… one is now with us, the other isn’t… I just think this is all pointless.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
it is, BUT WE NEED SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT
unless you want to speculate where Kaberle will end up AGAIN
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Take a break for a couple of weeks
and let stuff like this go… unhealthy.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
For the record
Champagne only did that for 2 seasons… not his entire career.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
As some have stated. It just seems to be out of character with Burke’s recent moves of signing anything with a pulse.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Houston
he’s not even making $600,000 as an NHL salary, he’s making $60K a year with the Houston Aeros.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
which would be around the same as what Champagne would be making on the Marlies.
Hence, the curiosity over the decision to not sign him…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 2, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I know we've all cried
over John Doherty and the Leafs D man that never was. He was taken 57th overall… nobody worried about that either.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Ok, we get your pointless point.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Jun 2, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're taking all of this a tad personally
You’re as entitled to your opinion as I am… and I’m not sure why the only comments worth adding are those that add to the idea that Burke has given up on something of value.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there's something to be said for
trying to even out the conversation a bit… and I will freely admit that all I’m doing is playing devil’s advocate here, but it’s nothing to get horribly bent out of shape over.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Adding to the conversation: “This is pretty common occurrence. The Leafs have allowed X, Y, Z, A, G, H, all go at the end of the period for which they held their rights”
Not Adding to the conversation: “Pfft, no one ever got this upset about the Andy Bathgate trade, so I don’t get the incredible burning outrage”
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I think the line between the two
is a rather fine one…. to me it seems a bit like cherry picking to allow one to go and not the other… but that’s just me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
My perception, which after reading this you clearly didn’t intend, was not devil’s advocate but instead attacking the commenters who were questioning the move.
I think it’s time to move on.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s time to move on.
And by that I mean ALL of us.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Saying I think
it’s unhealthy to be this worried about a 5th rounder passing along without a contract when we have let a zillion other similar players pass on in the past is not an attack on the commentor.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya clearly now that wasn’t the intention, just came off that way in my opinion.
I’m already bored with this debate haha.
Did you guys hear the offers for Kaberle are up to 5 now? Neat!
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
When you try to conflate one post and some questions and concerns as some sort of hysteria then yes, it is an attack on the commentors.
I gave you an example, you can complain it’s cherry-picking (it’s not) but you either get what I am trying to say or you don’t. So on that note…
What picks are up for re-entering the draft next year?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Graduating Hitman Joel Broda is a big winger with a sick shot and consistent 40-goal man in the Dub. He also didn’t sign an ELC with Wash and is going back into the draft.
Not sure if he is on Burkie’s radar or not, but I’d flip if they scooped him up.
Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski
by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure. Thought of that a bazillion times though!
Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski
by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Apples and oranges. Champagne is a better prospect than Doherty ever was and has actually made some progression after being drafted.
by Slava Duris #24 on Jun 2, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
the thing about Doherty...
was that he was an absolutely incredible skater. I remember the Red Line Report saying that they had seen very few guys with Doherty’s size (6’4", 235 lbs) who could skate like he did. Clips I saw of him confirmed his incredible stride.
But, they warned he had no hockey IQ and boy were they right!
To be fair, we’re going to need the contract space when all of our 6th and 7th round picks are instant NHLers.
Yes... 5th rounders
can’t be clogging up the cap space.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm do Datsyuk and Zetterberg have younger brothers mayhaps?
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the overall point of this discussion (and yesterday’s PDO post) is that if you read something, think it’s fucking stupid to discuss, don’t comment. Simple as. It’s not the end of the world that we not know that you think it’s dumb to wonder why a player wasn’t signed. Or that because it didn’t happen years ago that we can never ever discuss something similar again.
Comments about the topics are welcome. Comments about whether the topic is even worth discussing add nothing to the conversation at all.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Jun 2, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
THANK YOU.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It's true
I made this mistake yesterday. Not a really good feeling
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jun 2, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
People. The guy’s name is CHAMPAGNE. This is not a fit with Burke’s Leafs. What’s he gonna be, Mr Champagne Truculence?
It’d be like Burke trading for a Swede named Litebeer. Or a dude named Brie.
Now, if the guy’s name had been Realpagne, he mighta had a chance.
by not norm ullman on Jun 2, 2010 12:33 PM EDT reply actions
So comments about how worrying about all of this is stupid
not worth adding…
Random comments that add to the mystical ethnocentricism of the Leafs GM? Valuable?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 2, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
POTATO SALAD
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
just stop
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Being funny is always welcome.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Now, if the guy’s name had been Realpagne, he mighta had a chance.
I lol’d hard.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Overall, this seems silly to toss aside a prospect, no matter if he was top 6 or bottom 6.
We all know there’s more to this than just money, # of contracts etc etc. Burke made the decision, silly or not, it’s his to make.
Still silly. And wasteful.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jun 2, 2010 12:39 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe he caught him cheering for the Habs during the playoffs?
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jun 2, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
even Jesus needs a friend.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jun 2, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
now this
is speculation that actually makes sense
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
kid is huge..220lbs as a 20 year old??
that doesn’t seem normal to me.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
Yeah, it’s funny that he’s pretty much the exact same size as Brayden Irwin, who is a few years older.
by Slava Duris #24 on Jun 2, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
he should get some skating roids.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jun 2, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
you should’ve seen Byfuglien in junior.
Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski
by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
A review of the status of the centremen in this org. going into next season (eligible for the pros),
Signed:
Bozak
Grabovski
Kadri
Irwin
DiDomenico (he didn’t take many faceoffs in the games he played this past season)
Boyce
Unsigned:
Mitchell
Hanson
Ruegsegger
Champagne
Brent
Foster
A bit of a numbers crunch? Mitchell and Hanson will very likely be re-signed, Champagne is being passed on, and I’ve read that Burke would only want to sign Ruegsegger to a mere one-way contract with the Marlies, he’d have to pass on him and hope he doesn’t get drafted again. I’ve no idea if AHL vets Brent and Foster will be offered contracts.
You can convert centers to wing and a lot of forwards in the NHL grew up as centers because they were dominant when younger.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
True.
Hanson and Irwin played wing with the Leafs, and DiDomenico seems to have been moved to the wing upon his return to action if the number of draws taken are any indication. If the Leafs signed both Ruegsegger and Champagne and cut Brent and Foster loose, I think Champagne could’ve fit in as a 3rd/4th line centre on the Marlies.
by Slava Duris #24 on Jun 2, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
All of this shows is that we need to get Burke an SBnation account so he can comment here.
…..or is he already here?
he might be. Plotting all of our demises.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jun 2, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I think as a community we like and respect Brian Burke. That doesn’t mean we can’t question a move.
If he has his reasons I’m sure they’re good, but until we know them we might as well speculate.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Oh, I’m sure he has no issue with our debate about this or anything else Leafs related. It’s funnier to think that if he did, he’d get wildly crazy about it.
I’m sure Shoalts will ask him about his SBN profile one day.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jun 2, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
if he’s already here, maybe he just wanted to give us something else to talk about
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone looked at how guys go that get re-drafted?
Do any guys tend to go early in the second time around? Are they typically taken in a certain round? Do teams look at them as a 5th or 6th round flier? Have many been passed over entirely during their second draft?
Has anyone done a search/investigation of this nature before?
Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski
Also, did I set a record for most questions marks in one comment?
Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski
by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
No
??????????
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
illegitimate question marks do not qualify.
Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski
by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Hasn’t Brian Burke drafted the same guy twice?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
No. The Sedins are twins, dude.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
by mf37 on Jun 2, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
Gold stars for you
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 2, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHA
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Jun 2, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
[Tim Brent] was first drafted 37th overall in the 2002 NHL Entry Draft, but was re-entered into the draft two years later after not signing with Anaheim. In the 2004 NHL Entry Draft he selected 75th overall, again by the Ducks.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
And now he’s on the Marlies. Wow.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
100% chance we re-draft Champagne.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
we do have 2 5ths and 2 7ths!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Just pointing out Burke wasn’t the GM during those times, he was still with Vancouver.
WWGRD? (What Would Gary Roberts Do?)
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 2, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s an even funnier draft story,
G Mathieu Chouinard drafted 15th Overall in the 1998 draft, failed to sign with the team, and was re-drafted by the same team in the 2nd round (45th Overall). He has since retired & only played 1 NHL game.
Which team you ask would make such a collossal error in judgement you ask? The Ottawa Senators.
WWGRD? (What Would Gary Roberts Do?)
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 2, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t they do the same with a Russian kid?
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 2, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Skinnyfish and I are are doing a study of people drafted twice going back to the 1998 draft. We’ll update you when we figure out how many this has happened to.
"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."
You guys RULE! Like the Cider House!
Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski
by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 2, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
the fuck is who?
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Tim Brent wasn’t drafted twice because he didn’t get a contract. He was drafted twice because everyone forgot he had already been drafted.
Actually
He was drafted twice because both times Burke didn’t know who to pick and so wrote down a question mark on the draft card.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Okay – it’s happened 37 times since 1998 Draft. Skinny will post on it later.
"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."
Tomorrow morning
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
teamwork
high five!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 2, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Head cases
all of them!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Noted swell dude Alec B from MLHS on the Champagne debacle
Tried to get something out of Dave Morrison on the Champagne decision, he would only say it’s for a number of reasons with an apology for a lack of specificity… with all of Burke’s signings, SPC limits very likely factored in but Morrison seemed to be making it clear there was more to it. Could be a personal reason, a certain area of his game they didn’t see enough development in, combined with the SPC issue.
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
All this talk of Champagne
And the Blue Light post makes me think that this post was sponsored by Baby-Duck.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 2, 2010 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
DON P!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
this is the correct brand for this discussion. And most occasions.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jun 2, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
damnit, beat me to it…ill get you next time gadget
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard a horse drunk a bottle and fucked a cow
WWGRD? (What Would Gary Roberts Do?)
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 2, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
This is what I love about Pension Plan Puppets
It is Wednesday June 2nd – the Leafs have been eliminated for a bazillion years, we don’t offer a 20 year old prospect(most likely a marginal NHLer) an ETC…
And we get 400+ posts.
Fuckin awesome.
Seems to me like people care just a little about this team.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 2, 2010 5:49 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah they do
I’ll apologise at this point for offending anyone that thinks I was over-reacting to what I took to be their over-reaction to a 5th round draft pick not signing with the big club.
I still think complaining about not signing him because we signed the likes of Paradis or Irwin is a bit unfair to the other prospects though.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
About half the posts are just arguing about whether or not we should even care that a non-event happened/didn’t happen.
Draft day cannot get here fast enough.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Agreed
I think I’m really waiting for the Kaberle trade to happen so we can actually break something down that affects the team for the next year or so. Be it draft picks or prospects, at least the developments will mean something significant.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
You mean crawl? lol. Jokes aside Joel’s first 3 to 5 strides aren’t impressive. He hasn’t exactly improved in that area over the last years, which is a concern. He’s got an awkward stride. North to South he’s average, but east to west not very impressive.
Hands improved alot over the years in the Q, vision as well. Above average without the puck. Obviously great in the dots. Big body for creating traffic in front.
For a big guy he’s not what you’d call truculent.
He’s a good guy I hear. Never heard anything about locker room cancer, or anything negative.
That 50 player max is killer. I’m sure management has looked this over, well, you’d hope.
Leaf related ulcers, 34 years strong, and growing.
by Halifax Hockey Hooligan on Jun 2, 2010 5:50 PM EDT reply actions
According to Dave Morrisson
there were reasons why this didn’t get done… minus specifics of course.
I don’t think he’s likely to ever pan out as an NHL scorer with his skating ability… he might do well in the AHL though.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Right on. Well, you’d have to think management knows the player well enough.
Can’t see it ever coming back to bite us.
Leaf related ulcers, 34 years strong, and growing.
by Halifax Hockey Hooligan on Jun 2, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
especially after we draft him again in the 5th round!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing surprises me anymore.
Leaf related ulcers, 34 years strong, and growing.
by Halifax Hockey Hooligan on Jun 2, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t see it ever coming back to bite us.
Now that you’ve said this, I can guarantee it will come back to bite us.
But that’s only an Alfredsson guarantee.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Lol.
Leaf related ulcers, 34 years strong, and growing.
by Halifax Hockey Hooligan on Jun 2, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
if you compare him to Paradis over the first three years, Paradis is actually equivalent in terms of ppg production and superior in terms of goals, while giving you a lot more in the physicality department.
I don’t think you sign players because they win a lot of faceoffs in junior and because they rack up points playing against younger/smaller competition.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Although
we did exactly that with Robert Slaney last year so what do I know.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Paradis is an animal. Fearless. One of my favorite players to watch. For fans that haven’t seen him, you’ll be impressed. Probably will take 2-3 years to make an impact, but he’s a nice player.
He’s good enough defensively that he’ll get a long look in camp.
Leaf related ulcers, 34 years strong, and growing.
by Halifax Hockey Hooligan on Jun 2, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m pretty surprised how angry people are over the Leafs not signing Champagne. Sure he has put up some good numbers but he really isn’t anything special. He has some skill but he isn’t very physical and is lazy at times. Maybe he will make it as a third or fourth liner someday but he doesn’t seem to fit the mold of the type of player Burke likes to have in his bottom 6.
At the end of the day I’m sure the Leafs know a lot more about Champagne than we do. If they are choosing to pass on him then I have to believe they have a pretty good reason.
If they are choosing to pass on him then I have to believe they have a pretty good reason.
Very possible, very true. I don’t like the whole “don’t worry about it we know what we’re doing” management style though.
That being said, no one from the Leafs has said anything/not said anything about this yet. Still speculation, but at the present time, doesn’t seem particularly logical with our limited information.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 2, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Not angry. Not angry at all. Just confused is all considering the bare cupboards situation that is the current Leafs depth situation; the questionable signings of players like Devane, Irwin, and Paradis; and the good numbers that Champagne put up in the QMJHL.
Again, not angry; just confused.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
you want answers?
WE WANT THE TRUTH!
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 2, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m still not sure what to think about the Irwin signing but I have no problem with locking up Devane and Paradis.
Burke constantly says that he wants bottom 6 forwards to be physical, hard working players. Paradis and Devane appear to fit the bill, Champange doesn’t IMO.
by Brad Ackerson on Jun 3, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure I understand why they let Champagne go back in the draft. He may never pan out as an NHLer, but it seems strange to just give up on him when it appears he had at least a decent season.
Won’t have a big impact either way; I shrug my shoulders and move on.
leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.
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