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Also not so hot at drafting? Chicago. (More Draft Analysis 94-present)

Editor's Note: Daoust has returned with one of the greatest draft tools you will ever lay your eyes upon.

That’s right, the Daoust Draft Database and Analysis Machine is back, updated with this year’s stats and with some new bells and whistles. I had hoped to do a bit more of an overhaul than I did here, but life didn’t afford me as much free time to work on it as I would have liked. (And Hockey-Reference changed the format of their draft stats - eliminating player position - so I spent way more time than I wanted to just mapping the updated data over to the format I already had in place). But enough of my yakking... on to some mildly insightful and inflammatory observations, and this year’s draft database... if you’re a draft / data nerd like me, I think you’ll like it.

Star-divide

Before we get to it.... here's the link to the updated excel database. Enjoy. (And if you’re new to these parts, here’s last year’s offering.)

Ok, full disclosure – I don’t actually believe what I wrote in the title. The stats point to Chicago being average to above average at drafting over the last 5-7 years (with their stats obviously helped by top 3 gifts Kane and Toews). I just thought it was a good title since chirping the wings successfully got some attention last year.

Here’s a chart showing draft ‘success’ by team from 2001 to 2007...you can see Chicago is just slightly above average (15 being average) for categories like % of players that played more than 200 games, games played per player drafted, points played per player drafted, etc (click on charts for enlarged version)...

0107x_medium

Outside of the obvious draft success of Toews and Kane, people point to the success of the likes of Keith, Seabrook, Bolland, Brouwer, Byfuglien, etc as further evidence of the Hawks awesome drafting prowess. Here is the full list of players Chicago drafted from 2001 to 2007. Feel free to disagree, but as opposed to consistent draft expertise, I see pretty ‘normal’ draft success... one or two decent players every year, a gem or two, then two stud top 5 picks that make all their draft stats look even better.

Chicago0107_medium

And just how big was it for Chicago to win the draft lottery to get Pat Kane in 2007? Let’s see:

2007top7_medium

So they got Patrick Kane and his 88 pts this year for $3.5M or so this year, instead of Karl Alzner who might not have even cracked their lineup, or maybe Sam Gagner or Jakub Voracek. I’m going to go way out on a limb and say that the Hawks would have been a good team, but not quite the powerhouse they were this year without Kane. Also, it’s a tremendous burn on Philly to lose the 1st overall pick only to have him come back 3 years later and score the cup-winning goal against them. Tremendous.

Enough about the Hawks though - let’s talk Leafs now. So of course the (incessant) chatter at this year’s draft will be all about the 2nd overall pick the Leafs gave up to get Phil Kessel. We all know the 2nd pick will end up being one of Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin, but what have 2nd round picks looked like the last 15 or so years?

2ndoverall9408_medium

Damn it... that’s actually a pretty good group of players. Any way you slice it, it looks like the Bruins are going to get a solid player with that pick.

So what exactly did the Leafs get in return? Here are the top 10 goal-scorers of Kessel’s draft year (2006). You may recognize the name at #1 (note: the "Rank by draft Year" is a new feature in this year's database)...

2006topgoals_medium

And total points....

2006points_medium

So for a 2nd overall pick, the Leafs got the top goal scorer and 3rd overall point-getter from the 2006 draft. And he’s 22 years old. You can argue that the timing of the trade was questionable (was there really a rush to get a young goal-scorer now? Maybe we could have waited 3 years, even if Brian Burke and his 5-year contract certainly couldn't?), but there is no denying that Kessel is an elite player and one of the best of his draft class.

The Leafs are without a pick in the first two rounds of this year’s draft, meaning they won’t be picking until the 62nd slot (by my math). Here’s what a 62nd overall pick could look like ....

62nd_medium

Hmmm.... not so good. How about Leafs 3rd round prowess in general? Leafs3rdround_medium

Feck, no better. How about the best of all the 3rd round picks of the last 16 years (based on pts scored per year since they were drafted)...

3rdroundbest_medium

Ok, slightly more promising. Seeing as our scouts are going to have 2 rounds to reflect on their pick, hopefully they come up with a good one.

And if you're curious as to what the future might hold for either Hall or Seguin, here's Boston’s first round draft pick success...

Bostonrd1_medium

Pretty mediocre list. Judging by their previous top 5 picks (Thornton and Kessel), there’s a pretty good chance this year’s 2nd overall pick will a) be pretty successful and b) not play for Boston all that long. Screw you Bruins.

OK, that’s all I’ve got time for right now. Take some time to F around with the database if you're so inclined, and enjoy the draft Friday.

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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Comments

Display:

Kessel > Hall or Sequin

Toronto Maple Leafs: Looking at next year since 1967

by LeafFan1989 on Jun 21, 2010 11:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Obviously, we have no way of knowing for certain one way or another, but if I was a betting man, I’d say that Hall and/or Seguin > Kessel.

"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"

by JP Nikota on Jun 21, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too much stock given to draft position here, I think.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 22, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, to be fair, that was the entire premise; looking at player performance by draft position.

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

sure

just saying it’s a bit of a fallacy that success is determined by draft position… fine to rate that way, but each position should be weighted by draft class as well.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 22, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmmm… you know where you can get easy rankings by draft class?

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jun 22, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually don’t have a clue, sorry :(

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 22, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

are you just f-ing with me Karina? my database has a draft class tab!

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jun 22, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

pardon me, draft class ranking tab.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jun 22, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahahahaha

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 22, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sequin? Who’s that?

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jun 22, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

He’s a dainty little playmaker who wants to play for a team with a fabulous logo and lots of stripes on the socks.

by CanadianMaple09 on Jun 22, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Brilliant work again Daoust. What a great spreadsheet.

Life as a Toronto Sports Fan?... *sigh*... It is what it is...

by JohnnyG on Jun 21, 2010 11:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Amazing

Thanks for posting it again!

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jun 21, 2010 11:25 PM EDT reply actions  

my pleasure. where else would my spreadsheet nerd-ery be appreciated?

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jun 21, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is an incredible amount of work.
Also, great summary of Boston’s high 1st round picks!

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 22, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love these posts.

Reminds me of these great quotes from Marshall Johnston, the scout who picked Byfuglien in the 8th round:

"I only saw Dustin play once. Sometimes, in scouting, the more you see a guy, the more critical you get. It was probably more good luck than good management."
"I didn’t even know how to pronounce his name," said Johnston. "I just suggested this Dustin Byfuglien guy and Mike Smith said: ‘OK, fine, we’ll take him.’

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Jun 22, 2010 12:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Wow – a scout going on the record saying he was more lucky than good. That’s dynamite.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jun 22, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lowetide often has great quotes like these…if you’re into scouting/development his site is a goldmine – an often beautifully written goldmine at that.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Jun 22, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

So Hall or Seguin won’t be playing for the Bruins all that long, but will they get a Kessel return or a Thornton return?

I am the commenter formerly known as Belligerent Burkie

Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90 or add me to XBox Live - CoolJ90

by CoolJ90 on Jun 22, 2010 12:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Daoust, every hockey fan should send a personal note of thanks!

Much appreciation for putting in the time and I hope your efforts are rewarded with the recognition this deserves.

by Robert L on Jun 22, 2010 1:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Wow

just…

wow

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jun 22, 2010 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Brian Burke Team's Draft Ratings

Vancouver 1998 to 2004: 28th
Anaheim 2005 to 2008: 5th
Toronto 2008: 19th*

*way too soon to call this one, I know.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Jun 22, 2010 2:46 PM EDT reply actions  

nice use of the adjustable dates. glad to see someone’s feeling spreadsheet-y today!

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jun 22, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I couldn’t believe how easy it was, I was all set to do some math when I realized it was just a matter of adjusting a pull down menu.

Thanks again for putting the database together.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Jun 22, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

no problem…. i like spreadsheeting a little too much maybe.

oh, and our convo a week or two ago around stajan being top 5 of his draft year inspired me to include the ‘rank by draft year’ tab.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jun 22, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

More on GMs

10 Teams have had the same GM since at least 2003. Here’s how those 10 rank in terms of draft performance from 2003 to 2008:

Buf 18
Cal 24
Car 14
Det 29
Nsh 22
NJD 25
NYR 4
SJ 28
STL 3
Wash 2

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Jun 22, 2010 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

i think you’re looking at the wrong metric.

the “average pick” indicates relatively speaking how high or low a team is picking. Washington’s average pick is 108, or the 2nd lowest (best) of the group during that time. Detroit is 29 at 145, meaning they’ve generally been picking later on in the round (or that they’ve traded away earlier lower picks and are left only with higher picks – which is actually a better description of why the leafs rank is 26th during that span).

 the other metrics to the right are actual measures of ‘success’…using >200GP, buffalo’s actually 10th at 8.2%, Calgary 24th, Detroit 28th, Nash 26th, New Jersey 22nd, Rangers18, San Jose 2nd, St louis 20, washington 13th.

given that new york and st louis both had good relative draft positioning, their ranking in GP is even worse.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jun 22, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oops, indeed I am. Thanks for the correction.

>200 GP
Buf 1
Cal 10
Car 28
Det 20
Nsh 26
NJD 25
NYR 11
SJ 8
STL 29
Wash 5

Total Pts
Buf 2
Cal 17
Car 22
Det 26
Nsh 22
NJD 20
NYR 24
SJ 11
STL 23
Wash 6

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Jun 22, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

just realized chicago had 77 picks in the 01-07 time frame….that’s 11 on average per year. next closest was columbus with 71, the average for the group is 60.5.

chicago had 13 picks in 2001 and 17 picks in 2004. 17 – that’s craziness.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jun 22, 2010 10:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Nails

Excellent bloody post, daoust. Thank you for doing this.

What might amaze me most is the fact Kessel has only 10 fewer points than Toews.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Jun 23, 2010 1:35 AM EDT reply actions  

once upon a time in my keeper league

way back in 2007, i was in last place and needed to take a whole bunch of young guys to try and jumpstart my rise to competitiveness.
so i took a few babies named jordan staal, jonathan toews, phil kessel, claude giroux, and erik johnson. and since i had already taken an unknown swede named niklas backstrom and kept him a whole dead season while he played in sweden, i unknowlingly ended up with picks 1-5 of the 2006 draft.

but before i toot my own horn too bad, i let kessel walk for nothing to keep radulov during his summer of “will he/wont he” mind games with nashville & the khl…

by Death_By_Leafs on Jun 23, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

sorry, and the point is:

whenever i think of jordan staal and his 50 pt seasons, i wonder how much more dangerous pittsburgh would be if they had taken either toews, backstrom, or kessel instead.

yes they might have lost something defensively (although with toews not all that much), but the offensive explosion would have been spectacular.

by Death_By_Leafs on Jun 23, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

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