2009-2010 Jamie Lundmark
by SkinnyFish on Jun 21, 2010 12:00 PM EDT
in Reading the Tea Leafs
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PrintFrom Beauchemin to Stalberg, we're taking a look at and grading (please read the criteria below) the 2009-10 season for every player who laced 'em up for the Maple Leafs for a significant number of games during the campaign, with an eye towards 2010-11. That means only guys that are still property of the Maple Leafs. We're doing this in concert with Maple Leafs Hot Stove. Next up, Jamie Lundmark.
Jamie Lundmark
#16 / Center / Toronto Maple Leafs
6-0
197
Jan 16, 1981
Seasons in the NHL: 8
Became a Leaf: Claimed off of waivers from the Calgary Flames on Feb. 13th, 2010
Contract Status: Unrestricted Free Agent (previously at $600k)
The Summary:
Lundmark came into the league with high promise after being drafted 9th overall by the New York Rangers in 1999. However, he never could manage to remain in the NHL full time and has found himself being constantly moved up and down throughout his nine year pro career. Due to the influx of players from the Phaneuf trade, Lundmark found himself the odd man out (read as: the one with a two-way contract) and thus was waived by the Flames two weeks later. That's when Brian Burke claimed him to be a cheap veteran jersey filler for the remainder of the season.
The Good:
He was a veteran player and very cheap at only $600,000. The only regular Leaf with less of a cap hit was John Mitchell at $487,500. While used sparingly with only ten minutes of ice-time a game; Lundmark was a plus player for the Leafs until he went a combined -3 in the last two games he played.
The Bad:
Brought in as a jersey filler, Lundmark somehow managed to find himself as a healthy scratch for 6 out of the 21 games he was a Leaf; sitting in the press box while players like Tim Brent, Brayden Irwin, and Wayne Primeau dressed instead.
The Ugly:
Three points; one goal and two assists in 15 games while playing on the third line.
The Eye Candy:
Jamie Lundmark's first and only goal as a Maple Leaf. What's hilarious is that this goal was originally credited to John Mitchell and at no time during the post goal commentary do they even mention Lundmark's name.
The Discussion:
So yeah.....Lundmark was claimed off of waivers to be a cheap veteran jersey filler in order to make sure the Leafs could ice a full squad every game. He's a UFA and probably won't get signed to anything more than a very low paying two-contract with a club who has little depth. Regardless, don't expect to see him playing more than 15 NHL games next year. Thoughts? Should the team even bother re-signing him?
Audience Participation:
Rate Lundmark below on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the best) based on his performance relative to his potential and your expectations for the season - if he had the best year you could have imagined him having, give him a 10; if he more or less played as you expected he would, give him a 5 or a 6; if he had the worst year you could have imagined him having, give him a 1.
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Comments
I would like to re-sign him because I follow his wife on twitter and she is really nice.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 12:02 PM EDT reply actions
As good a reason as any
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
by maplestirup on Jun 21, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Worst player
To lace em up for the team this year. He is REALLY not good at hockey. Works hard but there is absolutely no way this guy should have any sort of a future on this team. I’m all for a cheap veteran here or there but if someone put a gun to my head I would sign either Wallin or Primeau ahead of this tool.
How did you manage to erase Toskala from your memory?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeez, what did Lundmark do to you to deserve this wrath? Kill your cat?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I was thinking the same thing.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You want a reason to re-sign him? He is a former St. Albert Saint. That should suffice.
That said, I’d really appreciate it if he’d stop playing for the Flames and Maple Leafs so I can cheer for him in good conscience again.
by Benjamin Massey on Jun 21, 2010 12:04 PM EDT reply actions
No thanks. He was pretty invisible/lacked real effort and intensity after a decent first couple of games given that he pretty much had a few months audition for next season. You’d think he’d be trying to make more of an impact.
Exactly. Try to name ONE thing he’s good at!? It’s just about impossible, unless blending in or “taking the odd dumb penalty” are desirable traits…
skating
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not too sure about that. Mitchell, Kessel, Primeau, Stalberg all have standout speed…Lundmark is best qualified as average speed. Just because he’s not Dave Andreychuk doesn’t make him a good skater. And his speed certainly didn’t allow him to do anything useful.
Sjostrom was and is the best forward on the PK that the Leafs have.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Sjostrom
is our PK.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The statistics actually back this up.
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Not sure you can separate Sjostrom’s positive impact on the PK from the departure of Toskala.
Would love to see the stats if you can…
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
It’s almost impossible every individual positive that happened after the Giggy/Phaneuf trade.
Was it due to Phaneuf? Giggy/Gus? Sjostrom? Letting the kids play more minutes? Getting rid of useful vets?
The only thing we know for certain is that net of all the changes it was a positive.
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
*useful = useless
Sons of '67: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Love Shoestrings.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Mitchell has standout speed?
I dunno.
Either way, while he may not be extremely fast, he’s a pretty good skater, I think.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like he’s a Milford Man.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
glad you picked up on that.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Cog in the machine!
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Bah screw it, don’t re-sign him. I have no qualms with the guy, but it’s just another contract taking up space from a young guy on the Marlies
Blue on both sides: Maple Stir-up
Lundmark was one of 9 (ten if you include NSFW Tlusty) first round draft picks to play for the Leafs.
Guys like this make me ok with not having a first round draft pick…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 21, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions
ooops
Lundmark was one of 9 (ten if you include NSFW Tlusty) first round draft picks to play for the Leafs.
…this season
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 21, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
5
I had no expectations for him, and he did virtually nothing with the Leafs.
by CanadianMaple09 on Jun 21, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions
ding ding ding
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Waivers = no expectations
He lived up to them, I was going to vote a 5 even if there was more than 3 options.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 21, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
There had to be some minor expectation of a skill level based on his draft status I think. Even Freddie Sjostrom as an 11th pick I think shows he has great wheels and plays hard. This guy was totally beyond useless.
why?
we got him off waivers, what does it matter to us where he was drafted?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
How could I have any expectation when I’d never even heard of him before he became a Leaf?Jamie who? Huh. Stick him in the file with Tim Brent.
by CanadianMaple09 on Jun 21, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
my reaction exactly
I was wondering if there would be a “who is this guy?” option
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
Aki Berg = 3rd overall
Boyd Devereaux = 6th overall
by Grabovski's better than you think on Jun 21, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
great draft year
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jun 21, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
This one has more comments than the Phaneuf one.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
well
maybe if Elisha Cuthbert was on twitter, like Erica Lundmark is…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
not verified, like Erica’s
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
We were busy this morning quoting Arrested Deveopment, Office Space and Futurama, and learning about sexual harassment. Not our fault.
Resident Capologist
Good times.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Resign because he kinda looks like me and is thusfor very man pretty
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
Surely we could find someone better to be a yo-yo between the Leafs and Marlies next year.
"My country is the world, my religion to do good" - Thomas Paine
You really can’t yo-yo a guy like Lundmark because he’s not waiver eligible and you could end up on the hook for half of his caphit were he to be picked up on re-rentries.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
This is an interesting question to me
Let’s make a few assumptions here. #1 Kadri makes the team. Good or bad, I think it’s happening. #2, Burke somehow deals for a top 6 forward. #3, Kulemin, Hanson and Mitchell all get re-signed. I think these are all reasonable expectations. This means our forward line-up looks like this:
Top 6: Kessel, Bozak, Kulemin, Kadri, Grabbo, Burke-acquisition-X
Bottom 6: Hanson, Stalberg, Caputi, Orr, Sjostrom
This means we would really need only one more to play, and another to ride the press box. Who do we want to fill those slots? I see three options: (1) Armstrong or Torres-esque “name” UFA; (2) Lundmark-esque “no-name” UFA; or (3) young kid, e.g. D. Mitchell, DiDo, Paradis, Stephanovich, etc.
I’m personally against option (1). If you assume you pay a premium for “name” players on the UFA market, I’d rather save the money for elite talent. Let teams that have the superstars in place overpay to get that last piece of the puzzle. So do we want kids or “Lundmarks” filling the final spots? I guess that depends. Guys like DiDo or Stephano, who at least have an outside chance of developing into top 6ers, could probably benefit from a year or two in the A. If plugger types like Mitchell or Paradis are ready enough, I’m happy to see them get 4th line minutes. I do not, however, want to see them in the press box (remember, there are at least 13 F spots). So bottom line, I’d be happy to have at least one or two Lundmark types (i.e. UFA making close to league minimum likely to send significant time in the press box). As for who in particular fills that role I don’t much care. By definition any such player is a marginal NHLer and will have no meaningful impact on the Leafs’ success or failure next year.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 21, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Wooooo Dale Mitchell!!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
This is exactly what Lundmark was brought in to do, and he did it just fine.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Mostly agree, but I’m not convinced that Stålberg doesn’t go back to the Marlies – unless he has another crazy pre-season.
He is one of the few guys who will still be waiver exempt.
Anyone we don’t have to pay more than League minimum to play his 6 minutes a night is fine with me.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 21, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Stalberg is with the Leafs unless 2 better LWers come in via trade or UFA
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I just would rather see him in the ‘A’ unless he is on the second line or can get some better line-mates on the third line.
Hopefully he is fully recovered from his injuries and can make the most of the opportunities his speed provides.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 21, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
right now its more of a question of “who else if not stalberg”
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
sure
but it is it better for us (and him) long term to put him in that role?
I don’t know, I just want this guy to be successful for some reason (besides being a Leaf.)
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 21, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s 24. More time in the A is a waste of time. He’s succeeded there, time to learn with the big boys.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 22, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Asking for a vote on Lundmark’s performance with the Leafs is like asking about Tim Condren’s performance in Star Wars.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Condren was far and way the best Storm Trooper; way better than that guy who bonked his head in Episode IV.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I LOVE the guy that bonks his head. If I’m near the remote, I always pause it to have a good laugh, sadly this generates much eye rolling and smack talk from my kids.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
And you have to crank the volume up because it sounds amazing.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Agreed.
I’ve always wondered though, after Luke, Han etc. jump in the garbage compactor, how is it that the stormtroopers don’t figure out where they went?
Suddenly there’s no return fire. So the logical conclusion is Luke, Han etc. have been killed. Wouldn’t the Stormtroopers walk down the corridor to retrieve the bodies? When they don’t find any bodies, wouldn’t they see the giant blaster hole in the wall? Wouldn’t they hear them shrieking like idiots among the garbage? This always puzzles me…
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
See I think they did know exactly where they went and that’s why the Storm Troopers turned on the garbage compactor.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
This is what I think as well.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s some lazy ass follow-up. And shouldn’t they notice when the garbage compactor is turned off prematurely? Wouldn’t there be stormtroopers posted at the entrance/exit of the garbage compactors to pull out the bodies?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
As Karina said below, if they’re already in the trash compactor, why not just leave them there? Would the Death Star have a people only trash compactor that they would need to be transferred to? Why would a brand new battle station even have so much random garbage and a garbage monster living on it?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Also I think it was pretty well understood that by the time of ANH, the Empire was a bloated corporation-like entity which did nothing efficiently
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
How did that monster get in there anyway?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Was someone keeping it as a pet and then flushed it down the garbage chute?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dianoga
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Wow.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
star wars wiki? awesome.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jun 21, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You’d think someone would want to see the bodies of the interlopers and to know that they’re not just mostly dead. It’s not such a long stretch from Obi Wan Kenobi to the work of Miracle Max.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Easy
It was shift change.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 21, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
but
the dead bodies are already in the trash compactor
why would they get them and put them elsewhere?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
1) The blaster damage to the garbage shoot blends in with the rest of the damage from lousy stormtrooper aim.
2) Stormtroopers are very puzzled about what has happened, but it simply doesn’t occur to them to check the garbage – it’s not a logical escape route, and you’d just get crushed in the compactor anyway.
3) The chute probably doesn’t transmit sound very well, especially with all the garbage at the bottom to baffle the noise.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Jun 21, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
perhaps this is why he was originally overlooked, since these are being done in alphabetical order and I’m pretty sure L does not come after M or P.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Kulemin goes tomorrow. The schedule had him for Saturday, but we wanted more discussion on him.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
can’t wait to see how much he sucks and isn’t worth more than a buck fifty…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jun 21, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe it’s $2 mill
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Not according to @felixpotvin
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
This makes sense.
You should disable comments on all other threads once you put that one up.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
We should do a mock arbitration a la Copper & Blue.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 21, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely agree. The hardest part will be getting people to comply with the CBA, which apparently doesn’t permit the use of advanced stats.
The parties may offer evidence of the following:
(A) the overall performance, including official statistics prepared by the League (both offensive and defensive), of the Player in the previous season or seasons;
(B) the number of games played by the Player, his injuries or illnesses during the preceding seasons;
© the length of service of the Player in the League and/or with the Club;
(D) the overall contribution of the Player to the competitive success or failure of his Club in the preceding season;
(E) any special qualities of leadership or public appeal not inconsistent with the fulfillment of his responsibilities as a playing member of his team;
(F) the overall performance in the previous season or seasons of any Player(s) who is alleged to be comparable to the party Player whose salary is in dispute; and
(G) The compensation of any Player(s) who is alleged to be comparable to the party Player, provided, however, that in applying this or any of the above subparagraphs, the Salary Arbitrator shall not consider a Player(s) to be comparable to the party Player unless a party to the arbitration has
contended that the Player(s) is comparable; nor shall the Salary Arbitrator consider the compensation or performance of a Player(s) unless a party to the arbitration has contended that the Player(s) is comparable.
(iii) The following categories of evidence are inadmissible and shall not be considered by the Salary Arbitrator:
(A) Any SPC the term of which began when the Player party to such SPC was not a Group 2 Player;
(B) Any SPC entered into by an Unrestricted Free Agent, including SPCs signed by Players after the Player’s Club has exercised a walk-away right pursuant to Section 12.10;
© The SPC of any Player who is not being offered as a comparable Player to the party Player;
(D) Qualifying Offers made by the Club pursuant to Section 10.2(b);
(E) Any prior offers or history of negotiations between the Player and the Club;
(F) Testimonials, videotapes, newspaper columns, press game reports or similar materials;
(G) Any reference to actual or potential walk-away rights;
(H) Any award issued by a Salary Arbitrator as to which a Club exercised its walk-away rights pursuant to Section 12.10;
(I) The financial condition of the Club or the League;
(J) References to a Club’s Upper or Lower Limit, or to the Players’ Share;
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
by mf37 on Jun 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec’d for using the CBA to discourage an argument that I would find annoying prior to it even starting
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jun 21, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
So they can’t just print out our conversations and use them?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, GVT and Corsi are out, takeaway/giveaway ratio is in. Stupid NHL.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 21, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I see nothing here that supports “No advanced stats”
However, such stats would:
a) Have to be directly derived from official statistics, as opposed to being independently tallied.
b) Be non-averaged (such as the stats that set the average player’s score to 0, as this would be comparing the player to other non-comparable players.)
I don’t see any reason corsi wouldn’t be allowed, as i can derive it from officially tallied statistics… A lot of the corsi derived statistics (qualteam etc…) would definatly be out though.
No highlight/lowlight tapes? Though i agree with this rule, i still want to imagine a Dennis Wideman contract arbitration hearing where the poor arbitrator has to watch all 100 goals Wideman deflected into his own net…
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
including official statistics prepared by the League
I think that nixes them.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
That seems an example to me as opposed to a statement. If i think there is some other method of measuring overall performance in relation to comparables, it would be allowed.
The problem here is, that if such a statistic were particularly powerful, the other party could claim that the measure was not a good indicator of performance and have it thrown out. Therefore, only the simplist of statistics be usable.
The stats im talking about are things like goals/60, PK ice time, and simple stuff, with corsi probably being the most complicated of the bunch.
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Well, just highlight official then.
For better or worse, it seems as though the only stats that you are allowed to admit in an arbitration hearing are ones that you would find on NHL.com.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I also like how it says “Both offensive and defensive” but the only truly defensive stat the NHL tracks is blocked shots, other than team-based ones.
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Well, for goalies, GAA and Sv%.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Also correct, though i consider goalies statistics to be a separate entity.
That and GAA is nearly a team-based statistic as well.
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
True enough.
FWIW I think they should look at some of those stats, but then the NHL would have to officially kept track of them, and maybe they don’t want to do that for some reason.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
looking over the old arbitration hearings, it looks like some “other” statistics are used but they ran the risk of being thrown out by the arbitrator about 1/3rd of the time.
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
of course these were all under the old CBA, so who knows now…
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Yea, you’d have to go back and look at that CBA.
Also, reading what you said below it looks like they just interpreted the stats that the NHL compiled, not made their own stats using a formula.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Those are the stats i think should be included, not any of the GVT and stuff that the arbitrator would not directly correlate to performance.
I could well imagine a “Player X is not comparable because though he scored almost the same number of points/g, he had 20% more ice time…”
Which is pretty much points/60 but without saying it.
Being as we are all stats geeks, we should in fake hearings just use the numbers because they are make for better viewing than hearsay.
Also, arbitration rules are stupid. I feel bad for the poor arbitrators who have to comb through these arguements.
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Google it. It’s been talked about quite a bit by agents and others.
The CBA also sites “official NHL stats” as being permissible.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Corsi depends on “shots attempted” which I don’t believe is an NHL official stat.
by The '67 Sound on Jun 21, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It is if you do a little math as they keep tracked of shots on goal and shots missed. Simply add the two and you’ve got shots attempted.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Yea, but you aren’t even allowed to do that.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, you’re right, i forgot corsi is even strength only so it would not be admissable. My other examples still stand, even though they’re all just shifts in scale as opposed to advanced statistics.
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
MC79 has excerpts from Dimitri Khristich’s actual arbitration hearing up at his site in an old post. Worth a read.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Some of the ones in the database actually use some “Advanced statistics”
Satan’s, for one, uses both PK ice time (i believe the sabres kept track of this though the league did not) and All star votes, of all things, though you’ll have to do some find/replaces to make it readable. Another mentioned that many of a player’s goals came when the team was leading or trailing by two or more.
Though it looks like the bread and butter of arbitration is (Stat)/game and claiming that a comparable player is not comparable becuase they are faster/slower, a better leader, cuter, more consistant, more marketable, etc.
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
TOI is a standard NHL stat and is at NHL.com – you can pull down ES; PK; PP; 5-4; 5-3; etc.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Exactly, like I said above it just seems like they did some creative interpretation of the NHLs data.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I mentioned that because it wasn’t at the time of the arbitration hearing. Either that or the sabres didn’t like the official stats and coded it differently back then (quite possible)
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
It would be nice if we knew what “official NHL” stats are. I’ve heard and read that the league keeps all sorts of stats that aren’t made public.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
The most interesting being how many restraining orders players have filed against Pierre Maguire.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I love this site
Jamie Fucking Lundmark generated more conversation than Phaneuf
My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
Better than Tim Brent (whozat?)
is a raving endorsement
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jun 21, 2010 2:51 PM EDT reply actions
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