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Getting Drafted for a Second Time- A Study

Who the fuck is Tim Brent? A guy that's been drafted into the NHL twice.

With the discussion yesterday about the Leafs not signing 2008 Draft pick Joel Champagne, a question was asked about the number of the players who have re-entered the draft and been drafted again.  Well I like a challenge, so with the help of PPP user and hot chick extraordinaire Fergus30, we set out to find out about those players that have been drafted twice.

We went all the way back to 1999 using NHL Draft information from hockeydb.com to find our guys. Why 1999 you ask? Because 11 years seemed like a good amount, especially with over 3,300 players to go through.  So without further adieu, our list and discussion......after the jump.

Star-divide

The 37 players drafted twice since 1999 in alphabetical order. Scroll way down for the discussion.

Craig Anderson – G

1999, Round 3, #77 – Calgary

2001, Round 3, #73 – Chicago

 

Gregor Baumgartner – RW

1997, Round 2, #37 – Montreal

1999, Round 5, #156 – Dallas

 

Jim Baxter – D

1997, Round 7, #180 – Boston

1999, Round 7, #202 – Carolina

 

Garett Bembridge – RW

1999, Round 5, #137 – NYR

2001, Round 7, #207 – Calgary

 

Jordan Bendfeld – D

2006, Round 5, #152 – Phoenix

2008, Round 7, #193 – Edmonton

 

Nick Boynton – D

1997, Round 1, #9 – Washington

1999, Round 1, #21 – Boston

 

Tim Brent – C

2002, Round 2, #37 – Anaheim

2004, Round 3, #75 - Anaheim (lol!)

 

Craig Brunel – RW

1998, Round 6, #147 – Nashville

1999, Round 9, #263 – Buffalo

 

Andy Chiodo – G

2001, Round 6, #166 – NYI

2003, Round 7, #199 – Pittsburgh

 

Mathieu Chouinard – G

1998, Round 1, #15 – Ottawa

2000, Round 2, #45 – Ottawa (lol!)

 

Will Colbert – D

2003, Round 7, #228 – Ottawa

2005, Round 6, #183 – San Jose

 

Gerard Dicaire – D

2000, Round 2, #48 – Buffalo

2002, Round 5, #162 – Tampa Bay

 

Fedor Fedorov – C

1999, Round 6, #182 – Tampa Bay

2001, Round 3, #66 – Vancouver

 

Jonas Fiedler – RW

2002, Round 3, #86 – San Jose

2004, Round 8, #235 – Carolina

 

Paul Flache – D

2000, Round 5, #152 – Edmonton

2002, Round 4, #144 – Atlanta

 

Brent Gauvreau – C

1998, Round 5, #120 – Calgary

2000, Round 6, #186 – Phoenix

 

Peter Hamerlik – G

2000, Round 3, #84 – Pittsburgh

2002, Round 5, #153 – Boston

 

Trevor Hendrikx – D

2003, Round 9, #283 – Columbus

2005, Round 7, #201 – Columbus (lol!)

 

Eric Hunter – C

2004, Round 8, #229 – Chicago

2006, Round 6, #174 – NYR

 

Eric Johansson – C

2000, Round 8, #255 – Minnesota

2002, Round 6, #187 – New Jersey

 

Matthew Lombardi – C

2000, Round 7, #215 – Edmonton

2002, Round 3, #90 – Calgary

 

Masi Marjamaki – LW

2003, Round 2, #66 – Boston

2005, Round 5, #144 – NYI

 

Brandon Nolan – C

2001, Round 3, #72 – New Jersey

2003, Round 4, #111 – Vancouver

 

Nathan Paetsch - D

2001, Round 2, #58 – Washington

2003, Round 7, #202 - Buffalo

 

Peter Reynolds - D

1999, Round 2, #60 – Toronto

2001, Round 9, #274 – Carolina

 

Ashton Rome - RW

2004, Round 4, #108 – Boston

2006, Round 5, #143 – San Jose

 

Dany Roussin - LW

2003, Round 7, #223 – Florida

2005, Round 2, #50 – Los Angeles

 

Brett Scheffelmaier - D

1999, Round 3, #75 – Tampa Bay

2001, Round 6, #190 – St. Louis

 

Robert Schnabel - D

1997, Round 3, #79 – NYI

1998, Round 5, #129 – Phoenix

 

Shay Stephenson - LW

2001, Round 9, #278 – Edmonton

2003, Round 7, #198 – Carolina

 

Jarret Stoll - C

2000, Round 2, #46 – Calgary

2002, Round 2, #36 – Edmonton

 

Martin Vagner - D

2002, Round 1, #26 - Dallas

2004, Round 9, #268 – Carolina

 

Jeremy Van Hoof - D

1999, Round 2, #57 – Pittsburgh

2001, Round 7, #222 – Tampa Bay

 

Kyle Wanvig - RW

1999, Round 3, #89 – Boston

2001, Round 2, #36 – Minnesota

 

Rob Zepp - G

1999, Round 4, #99 – Atlanta

2001, Round 4, #110 – Carolina

 

Mike Zigomanis - C

1999, Round 2, #64 – Buffalo

2001, Round 2, #46 – Carolina

 

Matt Zultek - LW

1997, Round 1, #15 – Los Angeles

1999, Round 2, #56 - Boston

..................................................................................................................................

So what does this all tell us?

First and foremost, it shows that players drafted twice don't have the best luck when it comes to having an NHL career. The only regular NHLers past or present on this list are Anderson, Boynton, Lombardi, Stoll, and to a lesser extent Paetsch and Zigomanis. The remaining 31 players have played a handful of NHL games combined and for the most part have bounced around the minor leagues from the AHL, ECHL, and various European leagues.

Secondly it shows that players have about a 1 in 3 chance of being drafted earlier than in their first draft year. Roussin benefited the most by re-entering the draft, moving up 173 spots from 223rd overall to Florida in 2002; all the way up to 50th overall in 2004 with Los Angeles. Roussin then went on to never play a game in the NHL. That's right; he cost a 2nd and 7th round pick and never played a game!

Third, in the words of Fergus 30: "My conclusion is that Carolina has shit scouting. Not one of the guys they picked up on their second go around played a full season in the NHL." Carolina has drafted 7 out of the 37 players drafted twice since 1999 (19%), and combined they have played 23 total games in the NHL. Dear Carolina, perhaps there was a reason they were never signed in the first place? (Argument invalid with regards to Joel Champagne)

Toronto, on the other hand, has never draft a play on their second go around. And the only player they've drafted, lost, and had drafted again was 1999's 2nd round selection Peter Reynolds. He was a good sized and decent scoring defenseman (.5 ppg in the OHL), but he never played a game in the NHL.

Lastly, a big LOL to Columbus, Anaheim, and Ottawa for drafting the same player twice. Only mystery man Tim Brent went on to play in the NHL, 19 games total so far with 15 of those for the team who drafted him....twice.

So there you have it. That's what happens to players who get drafted for a second time.

Comment 113 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Don’t forget Alex Ovechkin, whom the Florida Panthers tried to draft in the ninth round in 2003. I don’t think that worked out too well for them, but I’m too lazy to look it up right now =P

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Jun 3, 2010 10:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Florida wasn’t allowed to since AO was like a few days too young or something, so I guess technically he was only drafted once.

Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
(note name change)

by red army line on Jun 3, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

It would be pretty amazing if a player came of age during the later rounds of the draft.

by A Lindros Jaw on Jun 3, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pavel Bure?

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think another point should be made with regards

to the number that actually make it to the NHL.

According to daoust’s work from last year regarding drafting, 35.3% of all drafted players since 1994 made the NHL. That means the proportion of guys taken twice who make the NHL is actually far higher than the typical NHL draftee… which to an extent speaks to the idea of them being drafted twice.

That being said, the fact that only 1/6th actually play significant games is still superior to the majority of NHL draftees (10% normally make it to a significant role). So again, they’re still more likely to make it, they just aren’t sure things.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 10:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Such a small sample size

I wouldn’t draw to much from it.

by njd.aitken on Jun 3, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I went golfing with Jim Baxter once, nice guy….just saying.

Working on turning St. Louis into Ottawa's #1 Leaf Fans Bar

by Johnny Toronto (in Ottawa) on Jun 3, 2010 10:18 AM EDT reply actions  

co-inky-dink

In 2000 Edmonton drafts Lombardi, and Calgary drafts Stoll. Then, 2 years later, Edmonton drafts Stoll, and Calgary drafts Lombardi.

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jun 3, 2010 10:21 AM EDT reply actions  

also both players are now in the southern US!
DUN DUN DUUUUUUNNNNNNNNN

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 3, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

AND

both their last and first names start with consonants.

doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo…

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jun 3, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not a coinikydink. As I recall, Calgary was mad at Edmonton for taking Stoll above where he went before (which violated some kind of gentleman’s agreement when it came to players who teams attempted to sign but couldn’t come to terms with) and picked Lombardi at least partially out of spite.

by MattM on Jun 3, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the future, I’ll probably find myself bored and update the list going all the way back to 1979.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jun 3, 2010 10:28 AM EDT reply actions  

i would suggest maybe taking up a hobby instead. like knitting…

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jun 3, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

You can’t tell me what to do. You’re not my real dad.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jun 3, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

go to your room!

no ice cream for you!

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jun 3, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I WISH I WAS NEVER BORN!!!!

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jun 3, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

The reason why you two don’t have a late night comedy show on tv is?? Or is this the beginning of a Grumpy Old Men remake?

by L510 on Jun 3, 2010 10:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The reason why you two don’t have a late night comedy show on tv is

as Skinny’s signature quote states; it’s because Jay Leno wants one…

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jun 3, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

i really think we should do a daily show/colbert report style lampoon of sportsnet or something

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 3, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

And we can make fun of how Don Taylor says “scores” in that stupid whiny dumb way, I hate that guy.

by Shield on Jun 3, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jason Portuondo makes such bad jokes it would be sooo easy to lampoon him.

by Jo4nny on Jun 3, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

The thing he does that annoys me the most is the schtick comparing a current player to some schmuck in team history. “Here’s Gustavsson making a save just like old Jiri Crha used to do!” “Here’s Toews looking like a young Cliff Koroll!”

Never for the Canucks, though. We never hear about Henrik Sedin scoring “just like Chris Oddleifson”.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Jun 3, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

uh…. yeah, I’m pretty sure I’ve heard that kind of rediculous comparison made.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I only know about 6 or 7 of those guys by name, but as sure hell have no idea who that fucking Tim Brent guy is. Is he signed anywhere right now?

I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.

by kidkawartha on Jun 3, 2010 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

There’s a lot we don’t know that goes behind the scenes…when a team makes a big decision and is hush hush about it it usually involves a player’s livelihood or reputation.

For example, my friend is currently dating Stefan Legein, and she has told me his “retirement from hockey” was because he was forced to go to drug rehab and was was fucking crazy and overly possessive about everything.

As far as i can tell, most media broke the story as “he wasn’t enjoying hockey enough” or “he was burnt out from the vigors of junior hockey”

In Champagnes case, im thinking management saw something they didnt like character wise (terrible work ethic, nose candy etc.) and decided to cut their losses. as arm chairs, theres a lot we don’t know.

im going to wait until champagne starts putting up 30 a season before i chastise Burke

by sodonis on Jun 3, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

clearly, the solution is for you to get another friend to date Joel Champange.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wait wait wait. He’s in drug rehab, is fucking crazy, and overly possessive, and she’s currently dating him? Is she a spokesmodel for Bad Idea Jeans?

As to your actual point, yeah, we know nothing about what goes on behind the scenes. I remember back in the Fall of 2007 meeting someone who grew up with Steen, saying Wellwood would never succeed because he was lazy as shit and never worked out.

by The '67 Sound on Jun 3, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting, Wellwood is not being re-signed by the Canucks.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Someone should tell them that his massive food bills don’t count against the cap.

Cheers, Complaints, homerism and bashing of mediocre pop musicians in 140 Characters
"DO NOT get stuck behind Kyle Wellwood in the buffet line. This isn't really etiquette, but it will prevent you from starving to death"- Down Goes Brown on Etiquette for Jason Spezza's wedding

by Kevin Sellathamby on Jun 3, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

In an effort to be carbon-neutral, they couldn’t keep Wellwood because his flatulence is creating a giant hole in the ozone layer.

by Jo4nny on Jun 3, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The hole in the ozone layer

is not caused by methane or other greenhouse gases… it’s caused by CFCs… which were banned internationally over a decade ago.

People need to stop mixing those two things up… sorry big pet peeve of mine as a Science Teacher.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s okay, I would too. When you’re a science major, these things get to you

Cheers, Complaints, homerism and bashing of mediocre pop musicians in 140 Characters
"DO NOT get stuck behind Kyle Wellwood in the buffet line. This isn't really etiquette, but it will prevent you from starving to death"- Down Goes Brown on Etiquette for Jason Spezza's wedding

by Kevin Sellathamby on Jun 3, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

3 rec’s right there

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Jun 3, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of my students

is a friend of Jesse Blacker’s and I’ve heard some things from him that would worry me if I was the Leafs… but obviously that didn’t stop them from offering him a contract.

Sometimes these things are deal breakers, sometimes they aren’t… either way things go, it’s not going to make or break the club long term.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

and before anyone asks

none of them involve partying or a lack of desire to work out enough… and last I head he isn’t crazy possessive or about to go into rehab… so I doubt that’s an issue.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

*heard

not head.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think they understand that most of these things are things players will grow out of. Reminds me of all the talk about Ian White being a huge ass cavity in Junior.

by Shield on Jun 3, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

if they help the team win games, thats the most important thing

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Jun 3, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

this

seems way more sensible than some of the angry rabble stuff that was out yesterday.

I sincerely doubt Burke was asleep at the switch on this. The org has had ample chance to decide on his prospects as a player, and for whatever reason chose not to. Apparently the potential reward of having him was outweighed by the risk/hassle of it. It’s not a “wasted asset” it’s cutting your losses — again, in their estimation.

history may prove taht wrong but lets at least see what happens first.

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Jun 3, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Considering

that they have the most scouts/management people in the NHL, I find it extremely hard to imagine a scenario where everyone just ‘overlooked’ getting the kid signed by the correct date.

This was a decision… not a mistake.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d agree if it wasn’t for the Chicago/contract date disaster last summer.

But ya clearly it was intentional, not a mistake.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Jun 3, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chicago

has a smaller staff than the Leafs… if nobody in the Leafs office noticed it there would be more people responsible.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha yeah shes into the athlete types and apparently hes a little better now…fitting that he plays for the flyers though..i sure him and carcillo will go well together…and karina…all i was saying is that theres so much behind the scene stuff (hockey players are human as well) that getting pissed at burke for dropping him isnt the right reaction right now

by sodonis on Jun 3, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Kyle Wanvig was one of those guys the Leafs tried to get in the minutes before he went back into the draft. Life Stoll later, something went wrong. They were 10 minutes late or something.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Jun 3, 2010 11:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Wanvig was a weird case. The guys on my ball team were talking about him as one covered the Rebels for the local radio when he was their, and he was CONVINCED that he was going to be in the NHL, and a star at that. Odd that he was a can’t-miss prospect that never really panned out.

Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski

by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 3, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure why not signing Champagne is such a bit deal… Junior numbers and in-particular offensive ones the QMJHL are pretty misleading. He’s big, that is fine but I am sure there is something in his game many of us have not seen that the scouts have. The NHL is of course a different game. Nick Kypreos had 62 goals for North Bay in 85-86!

by Parkie10 on Jun 3, 2010 11:39 AM EDT reply actions  

The only real question is why… we have similar prospects with worse numbers in the same league… obviously it had to be a problem with character, SLC counts, or some other intangible.

We let him go for nothing. Hell, we even got a 7th round pick back for Joey Mac.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Jun 3, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was a 5th round pick... that we didn't have under contract

Joey Mac actually played most of a year as a start in the NHL… these are NOT equal commodities.

He isn’t worth that much… seriously.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Think of it this way

if another team wanted him they had 4+ rounds worth of opportunities to draft him, and i don’t know that his stock has risen significantly… we’ll find out on draft day, but I sincerely doubt he’s going to rocket to the top of the draft charts. We’re discussing this a lot more than anyone else.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

once again

what else do we have to discuss?
Let us obsess over our completely non-factor prospect who went without a contract and is now no longer our prospect.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I realize

I’m not saying don’t discuss it… I’m using the fact that nobody else IS discussing it to point out that most hockey pundits/minds/etc don’t think he’s worth talking about – i.e. he isn’t likely to go high in the draft.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I see.
Might I just add that there’s a lot we all talk about here that hockey pundits don’t talk about… and that’s a whole separate issue, that those with access don’t ask the questions that us fans are really interested in.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I get that too

I’m just not sure this story is one that has any legs beyond the Leafs saw stuff they didn’t like so they left well enough alone. As I said yesterday, we’ve let a tonne of prospects walk before and not much was said about it.

I think a few things are new though – more internet attention focused on the team due to blogs, and more access than ever to the people involved in the decision making.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

YUP

Now that there’s a place online for people across the world to congregate, things that would go unnoticed by fans (seriously, did the Leafs even issue a press release about this? If it wasn’t for one interested fan who was aware of the deadline to sign Champagne had passed, asking a question, nobody here would even know about this.)
I think the issue is less about this being not important because it’s never been important before, and more about the fan base being more educated than ever before and demanding more information than we’ve previously had access to.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I also think we’re going to see more and more situations where the club stonewalls attempts to get information like this, purely because the Leafs are likely to have WAY more requests for info than any other club.

If they have to operate under a cloud of secrecy because the management don’t like having every decision second guessed, I would anticipate the whole thing may grow more acrimonious with the bloggers than less.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno, it seems to me that if there’s a GM that is going to drag Leafs’ coverage into the 21st century it’s Burke. His gigantic ego seems to take all the second guessing from the media well enough, why would fans second guessing him bother him at all?

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

If only he could figure out how twitter works.

We need to get DGB to teach him.

Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Jun 3, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not the second guessing

it’s the explanations… I’m not sure he’s willing to bother with them… which may alienate more people.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

True I doubt he’d bother with the explanations. I’m just not sure it would really have much of an effect on the fans. Getting any sort of crumbs is a massive improvement over anything we’ve ever had before.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I find it interesting that through our collective discussions and debate the MSM are growing more aware of the issues we consider relevant/important.

DIscussions alone seem to incite questions from the press… it’s a good thing overall.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can dig that it’s probably not a very valuable use of time to answer every question that comes his way from every source. But again, it comes down to the “if only there were a giant body of reporters he addressed on a regular basis, one of whom could bring it up some time, maybe” factor.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Jun 3, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just as bored with the lack of Leafs news

as the rest of the barilkosphere… hence my creation of a posting around the idea of signing Afinogenov last night… I’m making stuff up so we have something to discuss. I get the desire to talk about something substantial.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s lots of stuff that pundits/etc don’t talk about that’s worth discussing.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jun 3, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh... and

we don’t have similar prospects with worse numbers… we have similar prospects with better numbers.

Don’t forget that Champagne is a year older than Paradis… Paradis’ numbers are superior at the same age. Stefanovich scored more goals, and DiDomenico produced more offensively when healthy. In reality the one thing Champagne has over the other 3 is his faceoff prowess… and that isn’t something I’m going to lose sleep over.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think his faceoff ability had more to do with him being a monolith and playing against younger smaller less mature competition

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 3, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m sticking with the ’roids theory.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok well

I don’t think the roids thing is the problem… because it’s one of those things I actually am aware of that the Leafs ignore.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

along with most NHL clubs

in all likelihood.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

plus

if that’s the issue… you just tell the kid you won’t sign him unless he stops and can prove he’s gone without for an extended period of time.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

so you don’t think the Leafs have already done that?
I’d think they would’ve told him that last year and it was up to him to prove himself. If he didn’t, no contract.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's possible

but like I said… I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t care too much about that.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly think

the skating thing is a bigger issue than ’roids ever would be.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is like Lost!

they’ve given us no information, so we all have to come up with an answer tha makes each of us individually happy!

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's better than Lost

because it’s real life… that’s why I prefer sports to most television.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

ummmm

point missed

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some points

and sarcasm… fail to translate consistently to text media… I’ll get over it though… dont’ worry.

Sort of like how people thought i was being a royal dick about the Champagne thing yesterday (apparently).

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that was spelled out pretty well.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

what does spelling

have to do with it? :P

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also on the 'roids front

it may well just be a don’t ask don’t tell type of thing… I doubt teams want any knowledge of that if it might come back to bite them in the ass.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

OMG JESSE BLACKER’S ON ROIDS!

by The '67 Sound on Jun 3, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jun 3, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha...

ha.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

your laugh

i don’t find it comforting…

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jun 3, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing I've heard relates to drug use

it’s more family related… typical crazy hockey parent kind of stuff… don’t worry about ’roids.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure

99% of the stuff that we hear about players and problems off the rink is ignored by the teams that draft them until they actually MAKE the NHL.

If it’s a problem there, then they start to worry about it… until then… I don’t think they let it get in the way all that much.

That’s why I think the issues are far more likely hockey related… i.e. his skating.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Champagne's

that is.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

That picture of the relatives with him in the fanpost did look a little creepy…

by The '67 Sound on Jun 3, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I seem to remember seeing something on BtN or FtR suggesting that at the end of the day even Yannic Perreault level faceoff ability had a limited impact over the course of a season.

by The '67 Sound on Jun 3, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

faceoffs are not particularly relevant in the grand scheme compared to other production levels.

If you lose all of them it’s a problem, but being 4% better than the next guy isn’t a huge deal in most situations.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 3, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love how I looked at the picture, and the first thing I thought was “37? who the fuck is that?”

My Fan Base Can Beat Up Your Fan Base

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 3, 2010 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

haha! I just did the same thing!

Took reading your post for me to look closely for the name. Well played.

Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski

by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 3, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Need help guys

A guy I work with is retiring in August and we’re going to get him a Rangers jersey as a gift (not as a gag – he actually likes them). What is a good online retailer from the U.S.? Shipping will be to the U.S. so it’s not an issue as far a shipping to Canada. Thanks guys.

@LakerCaptain

by Another Good Kingston Boy on Jun 3, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Rivercitysports.com is having a HUGE sale on Rangers jerseys right now.

by birky on Jun 3, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

as a matter of fact, they’re having a huge sale on leaf jerseys as well.

by birky on Jun 3, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the tip. BTW, I just found a sweet deal on a Bobby Orr Leaf jersey – gotta love knock-offs from China!

http://www.reeboknhl.com/p.php/%2328-Bobby-Orr-Toronto-Maple-Leafs-Blue-NHL-Jersey—p—1175.html

@LakerCaptain

by Another Good Kingston Boy on Jun 3, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I need four of those!

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Jun 4, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who the fuck is Tim Brent??

by Death_By_Leafs on Jun 3, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

i just assumed they forgot

with all the signings of management as of late, they just plum forgot about dealing with actual players.

also, does anyone know whether or not the 50-mission cap counts against all entry-level players and qualified picks?
if they sign someone who is going to stay in junior for another year or two, why would that count against the max? might there be the same logic as the salary cap, the guy only counts agains tthe 50 if he’s on the AHL or NHL club, not ECHL/NCAA/CHL/USHL?? thats what makes sense to me.

by Death_By_Leafs on Jun 3, 2010 1:14 PM EDT reply actions  

50 player limit refers to players that have signed a professional contract with the organization.

They can either be playing in the NHL, or the team has assigned them to AHL/ECHL affiliates, or have signed a contract and have been loaned to a CHL or European team. If they are in the CHL and played 9 or fewer games in the nHL, the term of the contract gets pushed back a year.

Teams can control the rights of players they drafted that are playing in the NCAA, or drafted players that are unsigned by the NHL team and playing in Europe or the CHL. These unsigned players do not count against the 50 player limit, although there is ANOTHER limit that teams are subject to that does include these players. The timeframe that the team controls an unsigned draftee’s rights varies based on where they are based. (European rights are different than CHL rights which are different from NCAA rights)

Resident Capologist

by clrkaitken on Jun 3, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for doing this!

I appreciate you guys taking the time for this. But no rec for it being my brain-child? That hurts. I thought we had something. Anyway, you’ve satiated my need to know.

No real names jump off the screen at you, other than really Anderson. And I am surprised at the number of guys that got drafted higher the second go-around. I expected maybe a handful, not almost a third!

Thanks again, good work.

Pension Plan Puppets -A Toronto Maple Leafs Blog: Pineapple Free Thanks to Mikhail Grabovski

by Sergei Puckizin on Jun 3, 2010 1:35 PM EDT reply actions  

The Godfather ladies and gentlemen.

The Godfather

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jun 3, 2010 3:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

@JeffMarek True Story: Ron MacLean jumped into the Delaware River to save a man who was taking his own life this afternoon.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Jun 3, 2010 4:55 PM EDT reply actions  

totally posted this in the wrong window.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Jun 3, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL at Ottawa redrafting a guy with the compensatory pick they got for losing him.

by MattM on Jun 3, 2010 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Does anyone find it strange that out of all of those examples, only one was drafted in consecutive years and the rest spent a full year out of the draft before getting drafted again?

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 3, 2010 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Isn’t that because a team has two years to sign a drafted player? To be honest I don’t know why the one player ended up being draft-eligible only one year after his first time being picked.

leaf fan stuck in ottawa, a localized black hole that will suck everything in that area to oblivion.

by stucky on Jun 3, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correct. Per the rules, a team own the rights to a drafted player for two years after they draft them; with exceptions for NCAA players and those in European leagues.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jun 4, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

That being said, I have no idea how he was drafted back to back.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jun 4, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cool story bro

Tim Brent got drafted for the first time one pick after Stoll got drafted for the second.

He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.

by Icion on Jun 4, 2010 4:35 AM EDT reply actions  

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