Pension Plan Puppets Suicide Hotline: 515-y-no-ilya
by SkinnyFish on Jul 19, 2010 12:04 PM EDT
Email
PrintWell it's official; Brian Burke did not sign Ilya Kovalchuk. Right about now you're going through the different scenarios of how badly this team is going to suck without him, and have come to the conclusion that it's best to just kill yourself instead of watching the Leafs flounder in mediocrity for the next 5-10 years. But before you make such a rash decision, we want you to know that there are people who want to help you; your friendly Pension Plan Puppets Overlords
Please, before you do anything stupid, call the Pension Plan Puppets Suicide Hotline. The number is 515-y-no-ilya. That's 515-966-4592. If lines are busy, or you can't get through to a service representative, please leave a message and we'll get back to you as soon as we can.
515-y-no-ilya
(515-966-4592)
We are here to help you.
1078 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Ummmmmm relevance?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Brian Burke did not sign Ilya Kovalchuk
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
neither did batman
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
but Batman isnt the GM of an NHL team
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
hell Lou could be the inspiration………
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Kadri is batman in training
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
OHMYGODIAMSOSHOCKED
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
can someone at least get a GPS tracking on Burke..
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 19, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he’s in Sweden trying to get the Sedin Twins to back out of their deal with Vancouver.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a joke right?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
the man in entitled to a vacation too
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
really want to see the $ term
Sad that we’re not getting a sure fire 40 goal man, but i never thought it was in the cards anyway. Sort of like when your Hollywood crush gets married.
I am, however, very excited at the possibility that a few more dominos might fall into place now.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
Unfortunately I thought no team needed Kabs more than NJD. Seriously, they’re stacked with defensive D-men and virtually bereft fo puck movers.
Oh well.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
If this turns out to be one more bogus or unconfirmed report
I’mma gunna be pissed.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
It would be hilarious if the Devils official twitter account got hacked, but everyone’s confirming it independently (RIGHT?)
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
/despondent I cant even dial the number..
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 19, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions
Clear Proof You Didn't Want Him
Dear Leafs Fans,
Kovy seriously wanted to be in LA or NJ. While the first is “meh,” the second is just not acceptable. You do not want anything that wants to be in Jersey. Stereotypes are sometimes right. This clearly makes Kovalchuk some sort of Russian trash.
Umm are you saying we’re biased against NJ?
I’m mad because Kovi spent so long and brought all our hopes up.. only to resign with the team he was already on.
I still love Kovi!
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
I’m biased against New Jersey. You don’t need to be, but I am. It smells something awful there, and I try to spend as little time as possible in the state.
it’s all Skinnyfish
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
/smug
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Very well done. My hat is off, sir.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
TOO FUCKIN EASY
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Nothing happened when I selected an option. Error or part of the plan?
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I pushed a button too hehe
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 19, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I want to see the contract before I decide whether or not to be angry.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Jul 19, 2010 12:13 PM EDT reply actions
$110 million, 43 years.
I’m calling it.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Lou Lamoriello wrote it. It probably involves Kovalchuk paying the Devils money in the 20th year to lower the cap hit.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I am interested in the contract…. but not angry either way.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
We all knew it was over the minute we found out his demands were in the $100M dollar range.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
what type of cap hit would be acceptable for a Kovulchuk……methinks 7-8mil
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Who?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Now that he signed somewhere else please ignore my months of analysis. We can go back to pointing out he chokes in the playoffs and doesn’t play defense.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jul 19, 2010 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
my favourite thing to do!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
And no intangibles. Actually, negative intangibles.
by not norm ullman on Jul 19, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
And don’t forget he probably busts NJ’s cap.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
ilya put a cap in thier ass?
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 19, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Jacobs and the board of governors put a cap there, Kovalchuk is busting it.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
they can get rid of spare parts and leave their core intact…..I don’t know if their owner is a penny pincher but they could put their deadweight contracts in the minors
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Rolston though, their biggest deadweight.
He’s the Brian Campbell of NJ’s cap situation, except +35 as well.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya it’ll have to get done… not going to be easy from that position though.
Chicago did a great job of pro-actively getting rid of their lower-tier players with higher cap hits when every team still had plenty of cap space.
NJD won’t have that luxury.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
they can easily dump someone to the Islanders.
The player(s) won’t even have to move.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s every fans answer to bad cap hits… but i’ll believe it when I see it.
I know they are still well below cap minimum but still, i don’t know if Garth Snow will just be a dumping ground for bad contracts.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
They already have a cap-circumvention plan. They are going to sign Doug Weight to a contract with however many bonuses are necessary to get over the cap floor.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
They have in fact, stated this publicly.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
A bad contract o NJD can be a good contract to the Islanders.
Think of the Thrashers… they took on Byfuglien and Sopel, both of whom had some bad contracts. Byfuglien was a good player in the playoffs, but has been hated by Hawks fans during the regular season for the past two years. The same thing can happen for the Islanders. Elias/Zubrus make a lot of money, but would be decent upgrades for the Islanders.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh i know, logically a ton of these ideas make a lot of sense…. just saying…. every team’s site I go to, their best idea to fix their cap situation is to ditch their worst players/contract to the islanders like it’s the ultimate solution…. (kind like Finger to the Islanders)
As I said, I’ll believe it when I see it… and not a second before.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
what I’m saying is that Zubrus/Elias aren’t even their worst contracts. I’m not saying they’ll be able to get rid of Rolston. And Finger is a totally different situation. Zubrus and Elias are decent players and would be talent upgrades for any number of teams. They are not the “worst players”.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
i wonder
would they trade a year of Rolston’s $5M for a year of Finger’s $3.8M?
Obviously it doesn’t solve their problems, but it does get them a bit closer to under the cap.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and Langenbrunner’s definitely marketable.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
lol…………..he has become the most hated NHLer in LA….
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Lifetime deals always end in regrets anyway.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Dear Users of the Suicide Hotline
Please leave us a message that is more than just “Hi.” “Hello? Hello? Bye.”
As you can imagine, our call center is currently swamped and the more detailed a message you give us, the more helpful we can be.
Thank you
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Is this still going to be operational tonight? As in when I’m not at work?
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Our call center is maintained by the utmost qualified third world labor we could afford for 50 cents a day. Due to their countries despot regime, they may experience rolling blackouts of their phone service. However, the messaging system will be available 24/7.
We are here to help.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I left a message!
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
dchesnokov
Kovalchuk’s mother tells Pavel Lysenkov of Sovetsky Sport that Kovalchuk’s deal with #NJD is for 17 years.
You gotta be kidding.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
so that 17 yr rumor deal was TRUE? wow……..thats a marriage
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless that’s half tail it’s going to be tough to get mad at Burke for not getting this one done.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
You do know where you are right?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
It’ll be half tail. I’m upset because I’m guessing the cap hit is under $7M.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Likely true. I wonder if he’ll still be worth that hit in say, 9 years though? I guess by then he’ll be traded to a small market team when his actual salary will be like $600k.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot can happen in 9 years.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed……….these deals will be tough to get rid off especially if the NHL decides to lower the cap
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
NHL won’t lower the cap.
However Koivu’s deal and Kovalchuk’s reportedly offer signing bonuses in lieu of salary in the potential lockout year. That’s bad news for us as hockey fans.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
crap man, i don;t want a stupid lockout………owners keep signing players to big money contracts and then complain that contracts are getting out of hand
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m terrified of the idea that hockey might have a lockout the same year that the NFL might have a lockout.
by Bower Power on Jul 19, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Imagine a winter with only the NBA to watch?
I think i’m going to be sick.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Even worse, I think it’d put a big halt to all the expansion the NHL has been doing. All those record number of viewers, all those fans contemplating loyalty…won’t want to follow a spot with two lockouts in six years.
by Bower Power on Jul 19, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Donald Fehr scares the shit out of me in that regard.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
This means we have to rely on Gary Bettman to do something right in this sense and not let the players strike. He is going to have to display balls of steel he has never had before and just not appease his ego and get a deal done to save the game.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I just hope the league and the NHLPA don’t let their shortsightedness and stubbornness hurt them in the long run. Oh jeeze, look who I’m talking about. We’re screwed.
by Bower Power on Jul 19, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how much rosterbation we could do with a whole year off.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s really fuckin’ glued to that number 17, eh? Never would have worked in Toronto.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
ahahahahaha /copy paste
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 19, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
what?
REALLY?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
RDS saying 7 years now?
I AM CONFUSED
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope that’s true; we definitely couldn’t afford him for 7yrs.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Kovalchuk’s going to be around until his Chris Chelios years.
In Lou We Trust: Now More productive than a New Jersey Devils Powerplay
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 19, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Fan 590 says 7 years, $60M.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Jul 19, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
8.5 cap hit……Crosby gets paid 8.7……..not worth it
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Counterpoint
The fan employs Berger and Kypreos
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
We couldn’t have swung that.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Mental math mental math...
8.5ish?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuck that, long distance is pricy as shit.
Wham Wham! Kabam Kabam! A Double Kabam! And It's A Double Dion!
by realcanadianbacon on Jul 19, 2010 12:29 PM EDT reply actions
Please
Don’t let a few cents be the tipping point in taking your own life. We want to help you.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I'll just pull an OJ
“Don’t do it Juice! Everyone loves you!”
“I gotta do it man, I’m driving on the highway with a gun.. There’s no going back”
Wham Wham! Kabam Kabam! A Double Kabam! And It's A Double Dion!
by realcanadianbacon on Jul 19, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Best long distance call I’ve ever made.
Wham Wham! Kabam Kabam! A Double Kabam! And It's A Double Dion!
by realcanadianbacon on Jul 19, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahahahahah.
I watched that last night, soooo relevant.
OJ’s a joke.
Wham Wham! Kabam Kabam! A Double Kabam! And It's A Double Dion!
by realcanadianbacon on Jul 19, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
its well worth it
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Agreed. It’s only to Iowa.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The transcript of your call
Ohh that was Miller leave a message just 3 Okay baby here and gonna say the sense, I spent on so long distance call it. Tell me what the Not, tough time. Otherwise when calling plating jumping off coming off a roof. Now should Sarah, should I call the truck. We need phone I can actually score goals and Castle You know it’s tough time but I’m trying to try get through it. Thanks for setting this up. Maybe you know, You can’t make it on. Thank you.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Regardless of how much it is for
This now means that New Jersey has to dump salary to be under the cap.
http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=20
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Goodbye, Salvador!
In Lou We Trust: Now More productive than a New Jersey Devils Powerplay
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 19, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
that might not almost maybe could give them room to re-sign Parise too!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Arnott’s $4.5 million comes of the books next season, and so does Langenbrunner’s $2.8 mil. No needs for us to worry.
In Lou We Trust: Now More productive than a New Jersey Devils Powerplay
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 19, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
sure, if there are cheap players to fill them holes
big if
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya NJ will not jeopardize Parise’s contract, no way in hell.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Arnott was acquired as a 1 year rental anyways, just to let Josefsson/Henrique mature in the AHL. Langs is a goner, unless he takes a massive discount
In Lou We Trust: Now More productive than a New Jersey Devils Powerplay
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 19, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
NTC though, no?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Both have NTCs.;
In Lou We Trust: Now More productive than a New Jersey Devils Powerplay
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 19, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Eep. Likely Kovy will too. NJ gives out NTC’s like the Flames (I’m sorry, that was a low blow).
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s okay. If Colin White can get an NTC, anyone can.
In Lou We Trust: Now More productive than a New Jersey Devils Powerplay
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 19, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh reminds me of the JFJ days of Muskoka 5....
/shutters
You can see how easy it was to get away from THAT.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Use the new cap calculator app instead!
http://www.capgeek.com/cap_calculator/index.php
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, good. “Picking NJ’s corpse” rumours. Just didn’t get enough of those over Chicago.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm is zubrus available?
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 19, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
do not want
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think everyone on that roster save Brodeur, Parise, Elias, Zajac, Volchenkov and Tallinder is now available,
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Zubrus is totally and absolutely available. Lou Lemonjello will be hoping the P.T. Barnum line, “There’s a sucker born every minute” is true when he tries to unload him.
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jul 19, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I wouldn’t touch that contract with a 10 foot pole.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
ah k, i wasnt sure if he was worth it or not. im guessiing NOT, by the responses.
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
So does the trade for Arnott make any sense now?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
did it ever?
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure it guarantees that Zubrus is gone.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I know you guys are all kidding…
You didn’t really expect Kovalchuk to be a Leaf did you?
A few hints that this wouldn’t happen:
1. Burke said it wouldn’t.
2. Leafs can’t go more than $6M over the cap even temporarily which this deal would have done.
Oh wow. I was just thinking of a way to say the exact same thing.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Yeah how stupid of us to assume that a team with no draft picks building via free agency would take a run at Ilya Kovalchuk instead of Colby Armstrong and Brett Lebda.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jul 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
Yeah, once Armstrong and Lebda were signed the dream was dead. But it was the right move on July 1.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
the "dream"
was dead when Burke said they’d make an offer but wouldn’t get involved in a bidding war.
far as we know, that’s what happened. Seem to recall the Leafs being mentioned as one of the teams who did offer Kovalchuk something.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably true. Since Burke has often backtracked we could at least dream until he spent our cap space, making it impossible, is all I meant.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
To be honest
I never once believed that Kovalchuk wanted to come to Toronto.
Hope, maybe, but belief, nope.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
No draft picks? Leafs had 7 picks.
Next year we have 6 picks.
We also have Phil Kessel. He was our draft picks. Ledger balanced.
To expect Burke to go and sign a $9M player at this point in the teams rebuild could be called stupid, actually. It would mean subtracting from the team just to fit his salary. It would also mean issues as soon as next summer when Gunnarson and Schenn are up for contracts along with Bozak. We would be having a Blackhawks fire sale before we even win a friggen playoff series let alone the cup.
I think LA dodged a bullet and if it was even a possibility Kovalchuk would be coming here than so did the Leafs. My opinion that I think is shared by a few!
You’re not serious, are you?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I don't disagree with it entirely
I don’t think Kovalchuk is a winner long term… he’s a good drop in… and he’ll probably win in Jersey, but Brodeur is going to retire soon and then the team will need a good goalie… right now they have no real prospect depth in goal.. they aren’t going to win forever.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Scenario A: Leafs add a 40 goal scoring 27 y/o UFA
Scenario B: Leafs don’t.
Which is better for this club? Don’t complain about Kovalchuk being overpaid unless you’re ready to defend the following signings with a larger cap hit than Kovalchuk: Finger, Armstrong, Lebda.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
If you add Kovy, you can have
Finger
Armstong
I lya
Lebda!
Woo vertical spelling!
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
acrostic poetry is the shiznit.
bidding on
ufas
requires
keen
evalutaion
reaching the
ultimate
level of
expectations will not be
simple.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 20, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I’m serious!
Look at some of the teams who went and spent the bank on players. It doesn’t work more often than it does. Toronto still don’t have a deep cupboard of talent like LA and (as always) New Jersey. They can’t sign a player like Kovalchuk for massive cash and then fill in depth roles with exciting young players on EL contracts. If the Leafs signed Kovalchuk they would still need to wait for talent to develop to fill roles and/or start making decisions about players like Kulemin and Bozak like Chicago had to do with Versteeg, Buffy, Ladd and now probably Sharpe.
Leafs are better off waiting this one out. If Kadri isn’t the real deal at center, the Leafs next summer are out looking for a #1 center with NO cap space. Too many problems. Phaneuf is making huge bank. One guy is enough right now.
If Kadri isn’t the real deal at center
Don’t even joke about that!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Muppet’s an old school pro, a decorated vet of the Battle of Ontario
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
No cap space? Where are you posting from, the hellish alternate universe where Burke re-signed Giguere at $6 Mil per season until he’s 50? There’s at least a fair chunk of his salary coming off the cap after this season, since he’s not a $6 million per season goalie any more. Last I checked $6 million is plenty to sign a #1 center.
While I agree that Giguere coming off the books will provide a huge chunk of salary that Burke and Co. can re-distribute, a quick look at the line-up shows that there are several players in line for a raise:
Schenn
Gunnarsson
Bozak
Caputi
Sjostrom
Brown
All it takes is four of them to earn a $1.6M salary bump and Giguere’s so-called salary relief is all gone.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Schenn and Boz already count for more than that through bonuses. I doubt Brown sees more than 1m, if anything at all.
Still leaves, at minimum, pay days for Gunnarsson, Caputi and a goalie, which will all eat in to Giguere’s former salary.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
2. Waive Finger and problem solved.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I heard..
That Pittsburgh is willing to trade Crosby for Finger due to the loss of Sergei Gonchar, to fill their need for a stud OFD.
That, or we can just keep sending Jeff Finger between the NHL and AHL until someone picks him up off waivers.
Wham Wham! Kabam Kabam! A Double Kabam! And It's A Double Dion!
by realcanadianbacon on Jul 19, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish <3
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
He’d only have to go down and up once, someone should grab him for sure at half-priced re-entry waivers.
can we just pick him up on re entry waivers then trade him for one of crosby, malkin or staal? i hear theyre trying to dump salary
Wham Wham! Kabam Kabam! A Double Kabam! And It's A Double Dion!
by realcanadianbacon on Jul 19, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
And then if Crosby wasn’t good after 5 games we could just dump his salary on the stoopid Islanders, right?
Trade him to Gary Bettman
For every first round draft pick.. ever. (In the future)
Wham Wham! Kabam Kabam! A Double Kabam! And It's A Double Dion!
by realcanadianbacon on Jul 20, 2010 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
We can always dream
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
Before we heard he was looking for $100M+, I absolutely thought burke should have gone for it.
After that… plus the perf bonus penalty and the lebda signing…. I didn’t even think twice about it happening.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Burke also said that July 1 was our draft. Sometimes Brian Burke lies.
2. They could if they ever got around to trading Kaberle.
Still, if the deal is anywhere near the numbers being reported, I’m ecstatic that Burke didn’t get involved.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Jul 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I would have loved kovulchuk but not at a 8.5 cap hit
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 19, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think
1. Brian Burke really wanted to draft Colby Armstrong, Mike Komisarek, and Francois Beauchemin
2. They couldn’t trade Kaberle until the Kovalchuk situation sorted itself out.
I’m glad they didn’t sign him. I have no interest in a great scoring player who sucks defensively.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no interest in a great scoring player who sucks defensively.
I do. Kessel?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too
We’ve got Defence
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
Totally. What’s our goals against ranking been the last three years again?
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
the last three years again?
You’re including years without Komisarek, Phaneuf, Beauchemin, and with an underdeveloped Schenn (which isn’t to say Schenn is done)? Why? I mean, what’s the point? Not to mention you’re including years with Vesa “League-worst” Toskala and Andrew “I’m-barely-a-backup” Raycroft?
This isn’t the same team we’ve had for the last three years. And we’re definitely not playing a defensive system that requires top 6 forwards who play defense.
Not going to dispute your point, only that we were fairly certain last year (well, everyone except Chemmy; you win, tiger!) that our GAA would come down then too.
Yes, upgrades in goal and sort of on D (we still stunk before picking up Phaneuf) SHOULD help, but we’ve “had D” for quite a while now and have still stunk.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I see where you’re coming from, and there’s a definite “fool me once” aspect to it, but there’s a clear and distinct difference between hoping (“Vesa will come back from his surgery”) and having a new group of players.
Yes, there is a chance that Komisarek busts his shoulder again, that Beauchemin looks awkward like the first half of last season, that Phaneuf can’t put the puck in the net, that Kessel goes on another one of those million-game cold streaks…
But, imo, those are so unrelated to the issues of the past, that it’s a little silly to compare it to the same defense of the last 3 years.
What’s the number of non-burke players still on this team? Three? Counting Kabby? It’s a different team, and I don’t think it’s too far fetched to think that this defense (and goaltending) is at least marginally better than the past.
Doesn’t seem to matter, does it? I’m not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, and I want them to win as much as the next blue-bleeder, but Burke sure did overhaul this defense last year and it still led to bottom 5 in GA.
Just saying, if a LOT of things don’t come together defensively this year, even improving to middle of the pack won’t be good enough with the lack of goal scoring on this team.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke sure did overhaul this defense last year and it stil led to bottom 5 in GA.
Wait defense did he overhaul? He added two free agents. Certainly a big change, but “overhaul?” He didn’t add Phaneuf until midway through the year, and – if we include goalies as part of the defensive core – the only change there was the addition of a prospect – clearly intended to be a backup goalie.
And I totally agree that we’re short on goal scoring. Which is why I’d rather have a pure goal scorer and leave the defense to our defense than to take a strong two way player. (Tying this back to nhlcheapshot’s and Leafer87’s earlier points).
29th
30th
27th
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Boy if we get our goal scoring up to 20th we could really be in for a great season guys!!!
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Rubbing alcohol anyone?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Thank you sir.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously, why do people think Kessel “sucks” defensively?
Dude backchecked like a madman this past seaosn. He’s not gonna win the Selke any time soon, but he’s fine.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Not hating on Kessel’s defensiveness, more focusing on the point that we “should” be interested in great scoring players, even if they aren’t the best defensively.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Kessel doesn’t suck defensively
he isnt a Selke winner or anything, but he doesn’t suck at it
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
get out of my brain
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
but its so roomy
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kessel’s dGVT was the same as Travis Moen’s. That’s fine by me.
Kovalchuk’s isn’t bad either.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I also hear he is a dressing room cancer
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
and that sometimes he only gives 109%
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jul 19, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
No, that’s now in a jar of formaldehyde with his testicle.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
He kept it? Ewwwwww
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Dunno, but it should be fine as long as it’s not in the dressing room.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe that’s what they meant, he isn’t a dressing room cancer, he HAS a dressing room cancer.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
HAD, anyway.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s got intangibles man, give it a break.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, Hey, Hey
Kessel dropped the mitts once this season.. That’s heart.
Wham Wham! Kabam Kabam! A Double Kabam! And It's A Double Dion!
by realcanadianbacon on Jul 19, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I should add to that
for $8.5 mill a year. if he wants to make under $6 then it’s not such a big deal.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed, It’s like me saying im not interested in going out and buying a bently
not that i dont want one, just that i know that it makes zero financial sense due to the price tag
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Kovalchuk doesn't want anything to do with the Leafs
Unless you honestly believe the Leafs are Cup contenders in the next few years, this is what Kovy’s agent had to say:
“Obviously his goal is to win the Stanley Cup… If he didn’t think there was an opportunity to do that, then he would not have gone there.”
(Source: thehockeynews.com)
We’ve shown time and time again that with a 40 goal scorer on this team, the leafs would be a playoff team. Once you’re in the playoffs, well…Carolina.
Yeah, but how does it look to Kovy? I doubt he cares about our optimistic analysis. Any objective outsider will take a look at the Leafs and go “oh – 29th place, they won’t be competing for a few years”.
As much as I love the Leafs, too many things need to go right before they are contenders… and Kovy wanted to get a Cup. Still don’t see the fit.
What’s interesting about the Kovalchuk talk is that I’ve been told pretty definitively that the Leafs were among the teams he was interested in.
Mirtle
I like Mirtle
but I still think the ‘I am considering Toronto’ thing was all about generating more leverage to sign a bigger and better deal elsewhere.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe you originally posted this quote
"Obviously his goal is to win the Stanley Cup… If he didn’t think there was an opportunity to do that, then he would not have gone there."
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I did post that (or at least something like it). I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive, though. If we added a 40 goal scorer to this team, we would quickly become serious playoff contenders. Scoring depth (two 30+ goal scorers on different lines), clear and qualified top 4 defensemen, and a good goalie tandem.
I don’t think we will ever know for sure, but agree to disagree that Toronto was seriously considered.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 20, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
My opinion is that Kovalchuk would have preferred to sign in a major market like New York (Rangers), Los Angeles or Toronto. The Devils, however, offered far and away the best deal, and the crazy front-loaded type of one that it was going to take.
If there were two identical offers on the table for Toronto and New Jersey, I still think he would have went to the Leafs.
Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey
by James Mirtle on Jul 19, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn’t make me a happy camper.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I think you’re right and it makes me furious.
I was stunned at how little LA were offering and how little it ultimately took to sign him. $6MM cap hit is a joke.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 20, 2010 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Hi James
any particular set of reasons why you believe Kovalchuk would have liked to come to Toronto?
Curious
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 20, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
YAY
CraigCustance Leafs up to six offers for Kaberle. Market could loosen up even more w/Kovy signed: http://bit.ly/9P6rQY
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:43 PM EDT reply actions
.
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pull the Fucking Trigger!
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jul 19, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The Leafs finished 25th in goal scoring last year and this year won’t have the benefit of Hagman, Stajan, or Ponikarovsky.
Where’s our goal scoring coming from?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
my ass
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
same thing
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Brayden Irwin
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Hoping there’s a hell of a Kaberle trade lined up.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
motherf’n BOZAK
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
MARCEL MUELLER!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
A healthy Kessel, a re-awakened Phaneuf, a Calder-winning Kadri, and a possessed Versteeg
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
who is gonna possess versteeg? Gretzkey?
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That’d be awesome.
The Oiler-era Grezky preferably.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that really so much to ask?
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I was hoping for a Gretzky-Messier-Yzerman-Crosby combo
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
wow, you are just soooo stupid. That would never happen.
You only get 3 forwards on a line dummy.
:P
Ya, THAT’S why it would never happen.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
They were all supposed to posses Versteeg..
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
Crosby is a little busy I think.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
aCalderROCKET RICHARD-winning Kadri
Fixed.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
see, frankly id be happy with 27th in scoring
as long as the leafs arn’t in the bottom 15 for goals against
fingers crossed
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Verteeg will replace Hagman.
if Grabbo stays healthy he can replace Stajan’s totals.
Poni, well that will have to be a by committee thing and hopefully players will step up or if they make a deal for Kaberle
Guys, lets wait til they actually play a game
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Guys, lets wait til they actually play a game
You heard the man people, stop talking about hockey during the offseason.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
so is your face
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
STOP THE SPECULATION EVERYONE, GET OFF THE INTERNETS
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, your wonderful hyperbole strikes.
Lets stop with the doomed talk before they play a game, better?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
We’re not doomed until we trade Kaberle for a really really really really shitty return
Then we’ll need to post that suicide hotline # again.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If you want to talk hyperbole please highlight my “doomed” talk in the comment you responded to.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Fair enough. In that particular comment, there was none, however, I can safely say that you usually are the leader of that brigade around these parts.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Sorry for wanting to rationally discuss the Leafs instead of just assuming things will be fine.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
/sticks fingers in ears
LALALALA EVERYTHING WILL BE JUST FINE, YOU GUYS JUST WAIT AND SEE. 9TH IN THE EAST, HAR HAR HAR
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Fine, lets chat rationally Chemmy.
Versteeg has twice scored 20 goals. That is a replace on Hagman.
Grabbo should score more this year. Replaces Stajan.
Hopefully, Burke gets a good return on Kaberle and brings in a top 6 scorer, or else, yes they may have trouble scoring. We have to hope that Kulemin continues his progression, as does Bozak.
Kessel is going to be healthy at the start of this year so lets hope for maybe 5-10 more goals out of him this year.
Also, we have a former 20 goals scorer on our defence, by the name of Dion Phaneuf, if he can come back to form thats more goals from the back end.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
or it all explodes and no one scores more than 10 goals
BOOM
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
couple this with a 0.17 GAA from the monster and i don’t mind
by potvin vs hextall on Jul 19, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Grabovski played almost 60 games. If you think he can score 55 points on top of his 35 from last year then he can replace Stajan.
Saying that he’ll score 55 and replace Stajan ignores that now someone needs to replace him.
I’ll believe Phaneuf scores 20 when I see it happen, and at this rate I don’t know who we get for Kaberle but if he can’t score above Kaberle’s 50pts the Leafs take a step back there too.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
As for Versteeg; Stalberg scored 9 goals in 41GP including concussion recovery. Unless Versteeg scores 30 (which he could) or Stalberg takes a step back that seems like a lateral move.
Basically nothing here makes me think the Leafs will break 20th in goal scoring and we’ll probably be in the bottom half of the league in goals against.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
i liked you better when you said things like this
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
OWNED
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes I got owned because having looked at Ilya Kovalchuk’s stats I think he’d be a good fit for a team with no goal scorers.
I’ve publicly said we’d need to overpay for him.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
anyone can change their mind. not “owned” at all…
i just miss Kovy being a lazy floater.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a tongue-in-cheek comment.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep in mind next year instead of facing Halak for six games, you’ll be facing Price/Auld. That’s like 3 goals right there. :)
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
They will play Price against the Leafs 100% of the time, just like Buffalo will always play Miller against us. THEY HATE US ARGH
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
And no that was no comparing Price and Miller, just saying they will ALWAYS start their #1 against the Leafs.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
We definitely should be better next year (if only because of goaltending). My own projections have us on the bubble right now.
The broader issue, which is what Chemmy and I (and others) have been harping on ad nauseam is that if you want to make the jump from playoff bubble to Cup Contender, you need to have a legitimate first line, including probably at least one superstar level guy.
The Leafs currently have one guy whom we can confidently project as a legit first line guy (Kessel) and then a bunch of question marks (Kulemin, Kadri, Versteeg, Bozak, etc), and no obvious way to acquire one by draft, trade or UFA.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
we need some malcontent with a NMC that refuses to play for his team and demands a trade to toronto.
also, this person needs to be a superstar.
c’mon burkie… pull off another luongo for bertuzzi-type trade!
by potvin vs hextall on Jul 19, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
c’monburkieNonis… pull off another luongo for bertuzzi-type trade!
fixed.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jul 19, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Bottom half in GA?
That’s a bit weird considering even if we use Gustavsson’s season SV%, and Giguere’s season SV%, the Leafs would have had a .904 SV% and allowed 233 GA, which was EXACTLY league average… 233 goals against would have put us tied for 15th in the NHL with two other franchises.
We wouldn’t have been in the bottom 10 with LAST year’s goaltending (including Giguere before he was traded).
POST trade, Giguere put up a .916 SV%, which actually means if he had managed that for the full year, the Leafs combined SV% for he and Gustavsson would have ended up around .910, and they’d have allowed around 219 goals… which would rank them tied for 9th in the NHL with the LA Kings.
With Giguere’s play last year we were VASTLY improved. 219 goals against… without any changes to our D, or our forwards particularly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I think over a full year, the Leafs
project to have around a .908 or .910 save percentage. If their shots against remain similar to last year, that means they’ll give up around 222 goals against.
If they only produce 225 goals for… which is still below NHL average, that should give them a winning percentage of 0.507, or 41.57 wins. If you add in 5-10 OT wins… or 7 to be reasonable… then the Leafs end up with 90 points.
RIGHT on the bubble from a playoff perspective… they would have finished 7th last season.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
So where do we go from there? What UFAs would you sign next season?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
None… if Burke is still depending on FA’s to compete, we’re fucked
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
So what moves do you make to take us from 90 pts to “solid playoff team”?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I can speculate all I want, but seriously
I have no clue.
I neither have the experience nor the training to fix this mess.
I would love to be a fly on the wall and listen in to some of the meetings when making decisions on player personnel.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, man. It’s a good thing we don’t jump on players just because they might possibly be overpaid. Who would want to weight value against cost when considering signing someone??
This “home grown only” stance is getting to be a little much. You can overpay home grown talent, too.
If Kovalchuk didn’t want to play here then fine, but Burke moved our picks and told us July 1 would be our draft, overpaid Armstrong and Lebda and then took a two week vacation while a 27 year old 40 goal scorer was on the market and that doesn’t sit terribly well.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jul 19, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes, it’s a well known fact that Burke is the laziest, most unengaged GM in hockey.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear he goes on vacation right in the middle of free agency, that bumb!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t think a two week vacation ten days after free agency starts, for a guy who has publicly stated that “July 1st will be our draft” is a little weak?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
i think
he has a phone. like me. and when important things come up, even while on vacation, he goes to work. like me.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He did announce the signing of Mueller while “on vacation”
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s impossible.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It makes me think that he has 0 interest in any remaining UFAs, including Frolov.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
“July 1st will be our draft.”
I guess I should have assumed it would be more like the Leafs normal drafts.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Bigger, Tougher, more North American
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank god we added a third liner and a seventh d-man for top dollar I was really worried about those gaps.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Clearly Philly believes in the same Defensive depth.
1.7 M for matt walker!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Loved that Philly press release about adding depth. Guess they can’t say “We were over the cap, Gagne is 31.”
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
There just weren’t enough facepalms in the world for the guys over at BSH.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
BSH doesn’t equal Philly media.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Well maybe it should!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually looking at Walker’s contract that’s ugly. Four more years of him and he’s already 30.
Have to think Holmgren could have done better.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Seems like Gagne said he would “only” waive for Tampa… that kinda fucked PHI over.
I love how the speculated deals went from “Tokarski + 1st” to “Mike Smith + prospects” to “Matt Walker and a 4th”
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Did he? Hooray for NTCs.
Although if I’m Holmgren and stuck there I’d ask if I could do Gagne for a 3rd straight up.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
But but
what about the “defensive depth!”
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yzerman is a stone cold killa
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Holmgren could have done way better, but might have been a been desperate. Definitely should have given it at least 2 days to see what after in Kovalchuk’s wake.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
yup, i mean he couldnt get that 4th upgraded to a 2nd? get a bit prospect thrown in? an extra 5th?
I mean gagne is made of glass but he could score 40 if he stays healthy
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yzerman says:
This is a salary dump asshole, we ain’t giving you shit.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
considering we did nothing at this years draft
Burke was right on the money.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Quite frankly, I would rather he goes back on something he’s previously said because circumstances have changed and it’s not a good idea anymore, rather than stick to it and do something foolish.
Resident Capologist
You mean like lifetime contracts? I agree.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
He obviously didn’t try to get Kovalchuk.
Too focused on intangibles.
/tongue from cheek
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m trying not to turn this on Burke until after the off-season is over, or at least until Kaberle is traded.
In part, to hell with what Burke told us. I don’t feel like he needs to tell me every move he’s going to make, and I can understand his desire to deflect peoples’ scours (he did get the heat off the Kessel trade at the draft). I care about what he does far more than what he says (which isn’t to imply that anyone here is the inverse).
Kovalchuk is certainly the best talent hitting the market in the foreseeable future. But that doesn’t mean it’s the only way of getting things done. For all we know, Kaberle’s deal is done, but the GM we’re trading with wanted to wait until (Kovalchuk was signed / one of their RFAs signed / they had an ownership change / the moon was full).
Armstrong and Lebda are overpaid, yes. Probably by about as much as 1.5-2M total. But that wasn’t what kept us out of the Kovalchuk race. Burke’s philosophy/opinions did, agree with them or not. (I think Ilya’s term and age were the two biggest factors). I just don’t think the vacation comes into it as an impeachable offense.
I wouldn’t string Burke from a lamp post for taking vacation but it’s not a great move from a PR standpoint.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I thought she got paid to fend off Sens_Suck from Burke?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish
we had a Leafs fan that lived under a rock for the last 2 years…. and we just show that fan what Burke has done – without any of the sound bites and bluster – and see how said person evaluates the actions, not the words.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It would depend on if they understand the salary cap or just say OH WOW PHANEUF SHINY
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I said
2 years, not since ’04
Assume a modicum of hockey knowledge.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke publicly stated that July 1st was our draft day and he had the equivalent of the first overall pick for free agency; that being cap space and butt loads of cash. But instead of using his “pick” to sign Kovalchuk, he goes after Armstrong and Lebda.
Who the hell goes that off the board with the 1st overall pick?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Mueller!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Thing is, guys don’t have a choice on who drafts them… UFAs can go where they want.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
whoooosh
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
yah yah I got your point that Burke made the mistake of equating the draft to July 1st – apples and oranges – but the fact that people took that to mean he was going to be able to get the best UFA’s is kind of silly.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Colby Armstrong paraphrased
I came to Toronto because they offered the most money.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I couldn't give a crap
about Cheese Army
I would REALLY like to know if Kovalchuk had any intentions of signing here at all.
Probably never know.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Judging by his contract probably not.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
perhaps Burke figured this out a lot quicker than we did and decided it wasn’t worth wasting his time -
I could see Burke being pissed off at being used for leverage to get Kovalchuk a better deal somewhere else.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, talk to me when he deals the real capital that we have. If kabby gets moved for nothing, I’ll be right there with you. With Kaberle still a mystery prize, I just can’t say that Burke has underperformed yet.
I’m wondering if when we trade Kaberle we’ll get a forward who scores more than he does…
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
45 – 55 point player under 25 for Kaberle? That just might be a stretch.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Kovalchuk >>>> The return on Kaberle
Kaberle isn’t going for as much as people think he will and they will be sorely disappointed. Weak defensemen over 30 with one year on a good contract really aren’t worth that much.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Ya, probably only James Neal rather than James Neal + 1st.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
We don’t have a first to include with Kaberle for Neal.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jul 19, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i think he meant that....
burke: “dont tell me what he meant. i know when people are trading me picks.”
nonis: “its like inflammable/flammable. ‘trading a pick’ means the ‘where to which a pick will been having traded upon’. at least thats how i explained it to keenan.”
chiarelli: “yeah, what do we look like, idiots or something? hyuk hyuk, gawrsh.”
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 20, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
setoguchi!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Setoguchi’s 36pts without Thornton and Marleau are a lot more representative of what he’d do here than his big season playing with those two.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
yeah, and i think thats the best we can expect
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m wondering if when we trade Kaberle we’ll get a forward who scores more than he does…
This seems like a no.
Expecting a 30 goal scorer back for Kaberle is hilarious.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
the best we can hope for is a player with 30 goal potential who is struggling
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
So....
Ribiero
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
30 goal scorer for Kaberle?
Ah, to live in that dream world…
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
First off
I think the max return one can expect on Kaberle is closer to a 15-20 goal player with upside who had in the 30-40 point range last year.
Either that or a solid prospect, or a high draft pick.
If 6 teams are actually involved in the running for Kaberle, the price could be higher than you think.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
36 points is another Kulemin!
3M+ and NTCs for all!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
So ummm
David Backes? 17 goals and 48 points last year… he scored 31 goals and 51 points the year before.
Devin Setoguchi? 20 goals and 36 points last year… he scored 31 goals and 65 points the year before (he went from 57.2% of his shifts with Marleau and Thornton, down to 5.9% of his shifts with those two)
Brad Boyes? 14 goals and 42 points last year, he had 33 in 2008-09, and 43 in 2007-08.
Other than that we’re looking at maybe Frolov, Little, Sharp or Pominville if we want a 30 goal scorer.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I would have loved Kovalchuk. Don’t get me wrong. I’m on the record as being pro-Kovalchuk from very early on, and I stand by that. Kovalchuk would’ve been a great addition.
But I think Kovalchuk’s somewhat bizzare contract structure/demands put him out of where Burke wanted to be. I understand the idea of shying away from a 17 year deal. I understand the idea of shying away from an 8.5+ mil cap hit for the short term.
I hate to do the armchair mind reading, but I feel like Burke is looking for younger players who will be competitors for a while. Vancouver and Anaheim were both enjoying Burke’s additions long after Burke left. Kovalchuk would be on the decline around when Burke starts heading out. I don’t think I agree with him, but I don’t think he wants that.
I’m not convinced that Kovalchuk’s hole can’t be filled [giggle]. It won’t be filled by a perennial 40 goal scorer, but I’m expecting someone with a 40-goal projection back before the end of this coming year. Probably 21-25 years old.
Would you be unhappy if we got a 21-25 year old NHL’er who looks like he could be a 30+ goal scorer, that has the chance of not being overpaid in his prime?
We’re not getting a 30 goal scorer for nothing.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Well, we all know what the true solution is
If we really wanted a high scoring left winger who has a blatant disregard for defending….
Extend Kaberle and move him to the Left wing.
Done and done…
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
the Leafs didn’t have butt loads of cap space though…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Armstrong – 3M
Lebda – 1.5M
Waive Finger – 3.5M
Bam $7.5M for Kovalchuk
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
The Leafs did not have "buttloads" of cash
for free agency. In fact they had less money for free agency than like 18 other teams. The idea of them having more money than everyone was horribly overplayed in the media. Especially when one considers we had RFA’s to re-sign.
The Leafs had money, but it wasn’t an endless pile of cash.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t remember making an argument for homegrown talent.
Trades are still very much in play.
My reasoning that UFA’s won’t be the be all and end all is simple: There just aren’t enough quality UFA’s out there.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It's far less likely
Who are we overpaying at this point that is home grown?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
BRAYDEN IRWIN
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Nazem Kadri/Colby Armstrong? I am sure between the 2 of them they can put up 40-50 points.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Armstrong
isn’t a centre. He plays wing.
Versteeg can line up at C though.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I was looking at it from a point production position more than anything else. But yes, Steeg and Kadri could both lineup on that second or third line centre position.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm
wtf?
Top 6 Centres right now for the Leafs: Bozak, Grabovski, Kadri, Mitchell, Hanson, Irwin… someone is going to play the wing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll be sad if Irwin cracks the roster come October… even the Marlies coach said he’ll need a good 100 games in the AHL first for his development.
Hanson, should he start with the Leafs (where he probably will) will likely be the oddman centreman out.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He meant in order of depth – not “top 6” in the manner we usually refer to it.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Top 6 Centres
Depth Chart
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
centres
Irwin is the 6th-best centre. That might be a tad generous, but at 6th best, I don’t really care.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
It’s only sad because we literally have NO other centres in our prospect pool. It’s actually kind of sad.
I think 1 or 2 of our 2010 draft picks might be C’s but they’re far down the development list (like that Olden kid)
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
McKegggaaaa
I think he’s a C.. Dude’s a player too
Wham Wham! Kabam Kabam! A Double Kabam! And It's A Double Dion!
by realcanadianbacon on Jul 20, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
they’re going to benefit from NOT having those 3 stiffs
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 19, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly?
That’s not that hard to figure out.
Last year’s total – 214 goals, minus the 97 scored by Blake, Stajan, Ponikarovsky, Hagman, and Stempniak. That’s 126 goals.
Add in 20-25 from Versteeg, 15-20 from Armstrong, and you get a range between 35 and 45, so we’ll say 40 goals. That means they’re back up to 166 goals. League average offense last year was 233 goals, so they need another 67 goals total.
If you think Grabovski can improve on his 10 from last year (he can), Kulemin can improve on his 16 (he can), Bozak can put in 15-20 (same goal scoring rate as last year), and you’re back up to another additional 25 goals or 191. Now you just need 42 more in improvements from young players, veteran D, or chip ins. I think Gunnarsson will add 4 or 5 to his total, Phaneuf should get back up around 15, instead of the 2 he contributed to the Leafs in a short term last year. So that’s another 18 or so, so you’re looking at 209, with the need for another 24 goals. If Schenn improves, Caputi improves, you’ve still got Sjostrom, Hanson, Mitchell, and last but not least… Nazem Kadri… even possibly the likes of Mikhail Stefanvoich.
It’ll be hard for them to get to 233… but I think they’ll easily make it back to 214.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry
I forgot to include White in that original list… 97 scored by White, Blake, Stajan, Poni, Hagman, and Stempniak.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok great we’ll be back to 25th in the league. That’s not terribly comforting.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Well, theoretically we should let in less goals this year.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless you think we’ll somehow be top 10 in terms of fewest goals allowed this team doesn’t sniff the playoffs.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
No, but better than 25th!
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Out of a lottary pick, woooo! Screw you, Boston!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
sniff….
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think that the craziest thing in the world to think. I could see this team sitting around 8-12 in the league when it comes to goals allowed. I think we are going to see Monster takes some steps up, and Giggy is going to play well if only because he wants to make sure that he can get himself another good contract of some sort and perhaps even make a move to a playoff team, so I don’t think it’s too rash to say you have a solid set of defenders and some hungry goaltenders ready to make that goal possible.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
If we’re 12th in goals allowed and 25th in goals for we’re not going to the playoffs.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I am not totally hung up on making the playoffs like everyone else seems to be at this point. I think we still have some moves that we need to make and I would rather see the team mature and get better, then turn around next year, with 10+ mil in cap space and fill out whatever holes we might still have at that point. I think it’s better to fail this year, but have the experience and be ready for a long run in the long run. We are projecting upwards and that’s not going to change any time soon, so I am willing to let things develop.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d be ok with developing from within if that was the plan, but it’s pretty clearly not the plan.
If that’s not the plan we should be adding talent whereever we can.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Yeah, Burke’s made it clear with the Kessel deal we are not being patient.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Brian Bruke lies.
I think that we can have a 2 or 3 year re-build turn into 4 years before we see tangible playoff benefits, but if it means that we have sustained success, then I don’t see a problem with that. Relying solely on the FA market is too dangerous, as we have already seen. If we are looking at role players of Armstrong’s caliber get 3 mil, we aren’t going to be able to get some like Jumbo Joe, or Brad Richards, or whomever is available in 2011 for anything less than 7 mil, and is that prudent?
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
How is it clearly not the plan?
He’s brought back virtually all his RFA’s… we’re still one of the youngest teams in the NHL… how the hell is it obvious?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does it have to be one or the other?
why can’t it be both? He obviously restocked the prospect cupboard… he didn’t do that to help his ego (I hope). Honestly I fail to see why you can’t do both. Most teams do both.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
We still haven't dealt Kaberle
that could help. If we get a potential 30 goal scorer then no problem.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Just think
if the Leafs can deal Kaberle for a James Neal there’s 30 more goals. and Kaberle isn’t a goal scorer… so that’s a net of +25 goals or so.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
if the Leafs can deal Kaberle for a James Neal
Wooooo optimism bandwagon!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok...
make that ANY player with the potential of potting 25-30 goals.
I’m not saying it WILL happen… but that’s all it takes to get them to NHL average. If they get a player 1 tier down from that… say 15-20 goal range… then they’re within 10 goals of the average… they can score another 10 goals.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
That would push them to likely
234 goals… right around NHL average. If Burke cna deal Kaberle for a decent scoring forward for the top 6, then our offense is perfectly fine… and improving with age.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
List of 30 goal scorers last year:
Moulson, Hornqvist, Samuelsson, Kessel, J. Jokinen, P. Kane, M. Richards, Penner, Iginla, Carter, Nash, Backstrom, Kopitar, Ryan, Burrows, Parise, Heatley, Semin, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Marleau, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Crosby
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
You should also
look at players that scored 20-25 in a reduced role last season… that would increase the list substantially.
Nobody would have predicted Moulson would be on that list last offseason… who is this year’s Burrows? Moulson? Jokinen? Penner? Hornqvist? Samuelsson? they were all a bit surprising.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll be “pretty upset” if we get Matt Moulson for Kaberle. We’ll leave it at that.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I'm not suggesting that we go for Moulson
thank you for making it absurd though…
what I’m saying is… there are a lot of players with the POTENTIAL to score 30 in the right situation.
Remember as Gabe Desjardins has found at BehindTheNet, goal scoring is around 24% skill. The rest of it is luck and positioning and linemates… basically opportunity.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Unsurprising result is unsurprising. Took long enough though!
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 19, 2010 12:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
GUYS
THERE’S ANOTHER GOAL SCORING UFA AVAILABLE!!!!
His name is Lee Stempniak!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
YES!
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Does Scoring Matter As Much
If you’re not letting so many goals in? Giggy may not be perfect, but you don’t have Toskala. I’m just sayin’.
I’d say they both matter? And after being 29th in the league, a benefit in both categories would be just super.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, the team is definitely in a better place than at the start of last season. Replacing Toskala with a cardboard cutout of a goalie would’ve accomplished that. There’s still a lot missing. Specifically a lot of goals.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
As an outsider (who thinks you Leaf fans are quite entertaining), I would argue that your team looks far more problematic (for your opponents) now than you did at any point last season. I’d be cautiously optimistic.
But I am a Columbus fan. What do I know?
RICK NASH!!!1
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with all of that. Would still like some more to happen before I’m comfortable going into next season.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya the Leafs almost always look awesome on paper in the offseason.
We’ll see once we hit the ice.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t we say that last year too?
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jul 19, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Every season!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s always next year!
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jul 19, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re gaining respect around the League!
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
Whoa
let’s not go crazy now. Still easily the most hated franchise.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t mind that, it’ll be more fun to see everyone’s faces during our Cup parade.
But we’re getting compliments, and that’s a start
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
1 compliment for 100 flames, IMPROVEMENT!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I went through this earlier
We’re like 30-40 goals short of NHL average production from last year if most of the players develop adequately.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Basically 1 scoring forward
is what we need.
Top 3 forwards need to produce roughly 35% of your offense… if an NHL offense produced 233 goals on average, then our top 3 needs to produce 82 goals. That means if Kessel get’s 40, and Kulemin and Bozak each get 20… we’re up to 80… They both could hit 25 if given the chance, which is 90 goals… that’s better than NHL average mind you.
For instance – last year Anaheim scored 238 goals, and their top line scored 81. Atlanta had 234, and the top line scored 79 (including Kovalchuk before he left – if he’d scored his last 10 goals in Atlanta they’d have hit 89). Nashville hit 229, and their top line scored 70.
If the Leafs top line can top 70 goals, they’re doing alright from an NHL team perspective.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
please let Burke get someone who can put the fucking puck in the net for Kaberle
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Or clear space
for Frolov… FROLOV FROLOV FROLOV… he’s the best goal scorer still available to mine eyes.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, maybe, i wouldnt be terribly upset if Kabby got a (good) return of picks and prospects (1st, blue chipper, etc whatever) and then signed frolov to a sub 4.5 per year deal
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think if he got top PP minutes
and he was playing EV minutes on the 2nd line, he’d be back up into the 30 goal range. He can even kill penalties in a pinch.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
There's also
Afinogenov
Both he and Frolov are like Kovalchuk lite (or cheap) whichever way you want to think of it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Frolov would give the Leafs a solid, if not spectacular top 6
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm
I’d say pretty damn solid.
L1: Kessel – 35 goals, Bozak – 20 goals, Kulemin – 20 goals = 75 goals
L2: Versteeg – 25 goals, Grabovski – 15 goals, Frolov – 30 goals = 70 goals
That’s 145 goals from our top 6 forwards… and 233 was NHL average last year…62% of our offense taken care of without mentioning the bottom 6, or any of the D.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I like it.
But I know even less what Frolov wants in terms of $ and location than I did Kovy.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
all I hear about Frolov is his asking price is high
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
ive heard north of 5.5
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
A Russian? Asking for an outrageous payday?
Shocking news!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends how high
I’d pay him like $4.5 if we can move Kaberle’s contract and get picks/prospects in return.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
His main reason for his point production drop was
less minutes, more defensive style, and playing on the 3rd line.
He was pushed aside as part of the older guard – along with Camalleri etc.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
New Ideal situation
Kaberle for a 1st (from somewhere/someone)
Frolov for $4.5M
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Still not going to happen
but whatever… neither was the Kovy deal.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
If they sign Frolov
then pushing someone aside for Kadri basically means they need to deal Grabovski at the deadline… or hope he gets injured again.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
on that line (and healthy all year) id expect Grabbo to score closer to 20
and Kessel closer to 40
but who knows, conservative estimates lower expectations
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I'm just ballparking it
Even if you push Grabo up and Frolov down… and Kessel up… either way… 145 goals is a nice figure.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Chicago`
only got 146 goals out of their top 6 last year (admittedly Hossa was injured)… but still.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If only there was some sort of magical man who could score those 40 goals that we wouldn’t have to give anyone up for. Hrm.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
$6M cap hit
is hardly nothing when it comes to giving things up
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
For a perennial 40 goal player? You don’t believe that.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
as long as he's perennial
he’s worth it. once he’s on the down side of his career and still eating up cap space, not so much…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
A. He’ll retire if he dips to 20 goals.
B. We pay Kessel $5.3M for the potential of being a 40 goal guy and gave up two firsts to do it. Signing Kovalchuk for $6M is a literal no brainer. However, because of the amount I doubt Kovalchuk would have signed here.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
A. - says who? no hockey player has ever hung on past his expiration date?
B. until he’s 27. not 44.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather have dead weight at the end of his contract than pass on a 40 goal guy for less than we pay Colby Armstrong and Jeff Finger.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Finger and Armstrong will both be off the Leafs cap when Kovy starts his downward slide.
I don’t think he’s worth it, and didn’t get too wrapped up in the thought that he might sign here, so it’s not a big deal to me that he’s not here. In three to four years down the road, when the Leafs are competitive on an annual basis (and not in the “hopefully make the playoffs and we’ll see what happens” mold, but a solid, deep team) I’ll be happy knowing that the Leafs won’t be looking at a Blackhawks situation of dismantlement.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What makes you think the Leafs will be competitive in three years? What additions do you foresee?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
i have no idea. what do you see that foretells of their continued lack of success?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think four years from now we’ll really see our current lack of prospect depth when Komisarek and Beauchemin are gone, Kessel’s getting ready for a UFA payday and we’re praying our two first round picks are ready to fill some awful big shoes.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Lack of big moves that have impacted team performance, and general Leaf bad luck.
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
lack of big moves
this is the tried and true Leaf fan right here. Yes Burke got Kessel. Yes Burke got Gustavsson. Yes Burke got Rynnas. Yes Burke got Versteeg. Yes Burke got Bozak. Yes Burke turned Stajan into Phaneuf, but…
what have you done for me lately?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Gustavsson was almost replacement level. Rynnas isn’t as good as Gustavsson yet.
Phaneuf is here because he’s massively overpaid. Versteeg was on the outs in Chicago because he was overpaid. Bozak, being an NCAA UFA, is overpaid.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
overpaid?
so is Kovalchuk. What’s your point?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
$6M for 40 goals isn’t overpaid.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
he’s not making $6M for 40 goals.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
By Big Moves, I mean something that will make the team win. Big Moves = moves that are proven to be a big improvement, not moves for highly-touted talent that’s may or may not live up to the hype.
Kessel’s the best thing that’s happened to us since Ed Belfour, in my opinion.
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
The Leafs were a playoff team after the Phaneuf trade.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
In a weak East. For 25 games.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Burke’s fault the Leafs are in the east?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
If your goal is “hope the Leafs squeak into eighth one year” then this is a great way to build the team.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
id be happy with that next year
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
that sounds like your goal by adding one player.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Kovalchuk is a better plan than Lebda + Armstrong and any attendant cap space difference.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
If I could have had
Kovalchuk at a 6 mil cap hit, but over 10 years, I would be very happy.
6 mil over 17 years?
After his first 50 point season, everyone here would be screaming for his head.
Hell, Jason blake was putting up more than that with a 4 million cap hit and we wanted to get rid of him.
The bonus question is, when does Kovalchuk’s points decline, after he turns 33 or after he turns 37? That makes a huge difference on the value of the contract.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
After his first ten seasons he’d probably have 400 goals as a Leaf. He’d retire and lose out on a whopping $550K for not playing five or six seasons.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Pro-rate that bitch! But only the good times, not the slumps!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
How's this for "big moves"
There are no players on the team other than Kaberle that were skating as a regular in the Leafs lineup 3 years ago.
That’s not BIG ENOUGH? WTF man.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Kadri
perhaps another draft pick or two develop.
There’s always trades – a lot changes in 3 years… just compare the current Leafs roster to the one 3 years ago if you don’t believe that.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Kessel is 23
And has already broken the 30 goal plateau twice. Only 7 NHL players since the lockout have broken 40 goals before the age of 24 – Ovechkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Staal, Malkin, Vanek, and Kovalchuk.
Also – only 101 players have broken the 30 goal plateau more than once before the age of 23 since the lockout – Ovechkin, Crosby, Staal, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Kopitar, Nash, Parise, Ryan… and Kessel.
He’s in a pretty effing elite group right now. Also… the only teams to have two of the players on that list are Pittsburgh, and New Jersey… two teams in a 30 team league. Basically we’re jealous that Toronto isn’t the same as Pittsburgh… just like everyone else that isn’t New Jersey.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
stop that
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget
Alex Frolov either.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
all the cap casualty NHLers who are sent down this September should all ask to join one AHL team.
Zubrus, Salvador, Huet, Finger, Witt, Souray, they can all be called the “Rich Bitches” squad.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
dchenokov
The 17 years, $100m+ for Kovalchuk is what I stand by.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
17 years 100M is a $5.88 cap hit. If that doesn’t make you angry I don’t know what to say.
1. We should have offered him something up to a $7M cap hit.
2. If we offered a 17 year contract we’d have to forfeit out 2012 1st for cap circumvention and they’d void Kovalchuk’s contract.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
17 years is rediculous and does not make me angry.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
all i can say is dude must love the number 17
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
We should have offered him 1.7 seasons at $17M.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t make this harder than it already is.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
TWHS.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nicely done.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If it lasts for four or more hours, see a doctor.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If it lasts 4 or more hours I’m not calling a doctor. I’m calling a press-conference!
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jul 19, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is it ridiculous? If Kovalchuk retires his cap hit disappears. It’s a lifetime deal at around $6M for a guy who will score 40 goals in each of the next eight seasons easy.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I want to know how severe the “+” is before I agree with that, but I’m mostly on your page.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
because it takes him to 44 years of age
Lou makes the deal and it’s “genius” to bring down the cap hit, Burke makes the deal and it’s idiotic because people will think he actually expects Kovalchuk to play until 44 years old.
If this deal doesn’t get the Devils some punishment, I may actually support a work-stoppage in 2012.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re going to go after tailed deals in the next CBA. Now’s the time to make them. They can’t punish this contract after they’ve allowed so many others. I mean, they could, but they shouldn’t.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
well Luongo’s and Hossa’s deals were both investigated, but neither of them take them to 44.
40, 41 are ages that superstars are seen still playing.
The only player I can think of that hit 44 was Chris Chelios. Those 2, 3 years difference in age would make a difference, I would think.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That only matters if it’s a +35 deal.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure you’re following
Luongo and Hossa’s deals take them to an age that while not overly common is reasonable to see players in the league at. 44 we have two (apparently ) Recchi and Chelios.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
We're following
it’s just a loophole they’ll close in the next CBA.
Right now it’s a valid contract.
They’ll reduce the contract guarantee age from 35+ to 30+… watch it happen. It won’t hurt the players any.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
or sorry
the cap hit guarantee…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What I don’t follow is why you’re concerned about having a player signed past when it’s reasonable to expect he’ll play. That’s kind of the point.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. It doesn’t matter. When he’s done he’ll retire. If you pay him $6M for declining production for two years who cares.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
It just means the cap is useless
I could sign every player to a 40 year contract, and make the cap hits virtually nothing… then sign an all-star team. Why aren’t people doing it? I don’t know.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
insurance issues, I would guess
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The issue is
when he retires… the cap hit is gone… so it’s circumventing the cap rules.
You’re lowering the hit now, knowing it won’t matter later because he’ll retire since he signed it under the 35+ rule cutoff.
Pronger’s cap hit continues after he retires… that’s how it should work for all deals… to prevent these idiotic extended ones.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but it’s well established that they don’t enforce this.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
They need to
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a strong advocate of retirements only decreasing the cap hit of deals by the salary dollar value as opposed to removing it all together. In this way the cap hit and dollars paid are the same. Also, assuming no one Mike Rathje’s their players, you could then abolish the 35+ rule.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Please expand on why as a Devils fan I’d give one half of a shit that we’re circumventing the cap.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
You wouldn't
I’m just saying they’ll change it in the CBA next time around. It’s getting absurd.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Right.
Which is why when a guy who is poised to benefit the team by taking one is available before they crack down, you jump at the opportunity.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I do care, if its 17 years there’s a chance Gary will nullify the contract and then the fan hostage crisis will continue.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
I highly doubt he’ll nullify the contract.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
He won’t nullify it just for the sheer annoyance it would cause all of us to have to deal with this shit again.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. If Recchi can play at 43, no reason Kovy can’t at 44.
It’s a loophole, Lou used it, more power to him, I wish our GM would too.
And given the salary will probably be around $1MM for the last 6 years or so it will be easy as pie to move Kovy to a salary floor team in his declining years.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a loophole, Lou used it, more power to him, I wish our GM would too.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
the issue is that it’s a huge risk with a young team that is still trying to create an identity
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what a good identity is? Scoring goals and winning games.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
just like Atlanta, eh?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Atlanta got .895 goaltending every year. We know firsthand that it doesn’t matter what your team does if the goalie lets everything in.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Yup.
And despite how everything looks on paper, signing Kovalchuk in no way guarantees giving us a “scoring goals and winning games” identity.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is saying Kovy is sufficient. But he, or someone of similar talents, is necessary.
And I don’t see how to get such a player in the foreseaable future.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You DEVELOP
one… christ why is this such an alien concept to us Leaf fans?
Because we haven’t done it in FOREVER… but that’s what it’s going to take.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Tough when you lack #1s.
I don’t see anyone in the Leafs system I can confidently project as a superstar. I’m sorry Steve, and neither does any rating system either.
We have a bunch of potential second linersr.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Kessel.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Dreaming in technicolour. He’s good but not at that leve.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
so again I ask you why it’s absolutely necessery to have a player at that level. Atlanta had one – heck, two – for years and they have made the playoffs ONCE.
Overall team is far more important than ONE superstar.
Also, Kessel is 22 years old and scored 30 goals in a shortened season with pathetic talent last year. By Kovalchuk’s age I expect him to have hit 40 multiple times. Maybe he’s not quite at that level, but he’s pretty darned close.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Kovalchuk scored 41 at age 20.
They are not in the same league.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No one forgot about Kessel, we need more than just Kessel.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Agree
I just don’t think that we necesserily need a Kovalchuk to add to Kessel.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
And that more has to be the lazy floater Kovalchuk?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I do not advocate signing a player to a 17 year contract because we are worried that there isn’t anyone else.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It doesn’t have to be, but I’m not sure who else there is.
If you want to make an argument you should probably lay something out like:
“The Leafs don’t need a 40 goal scorer because they can (develop specific player already in the system) or (draft specific player with one of their picks) or (sign a future specific UFA) or (trade for specific player with assets we have).”
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
no
I like my overall picture argument better, actually.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm not "making an argument"
i’m asking a question to which the response has been “who else?”
why do i need to defend my question?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't develop
any player that isn’t a 1st rounder?
Tell that to Hornqvist… he was the LAST PLAYER taken in his draft year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Having a Hornqvist happen is great. Depending on it or planning around it is terrible management.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who said I was planning on it
I’m just saying it’s possible… and to argue that it CAN’T happen is absurd since there are many cases of it happening.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's review
Alfredsson, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula… there’s a lot more, I’m just rattling them off the top of my head. Martin St. Louis… etc.
Scorers aren’t all drafted high.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to make a list of the draft ranking
of all the top 50 scorers from last year… it will be top heavy obviously, but you’d probably be surprised by the number taken in later rounds, or not drafted at all.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Undrafted players in the top 50 in scoring
Rene Bourque, Dustin Penner, Martin St. Louis, Alex Burrows.
Late draft picks include Andrew Brunette 174th, Brooks Laich 193rd, Jussi Jokinen 192nd, Pavel Datsyuk 171st, Henrik Zetterberg 210th, Daniel Alfredsson 133rd, Tomas Plekanec 71st, Brad Richards 64th, Antoine Vermette 55th, Jason Pominville 55th. Ok so that’s 14 players out of 50 that were taken after Brad Ross was drafted this year by the Leafs.
The Leafs currently have players on their team taken ahead of those guys in Kessel (5th), Kulemin (22nd), Schenn (5th), Armstrong (21st), Phaneuf (9th) we have our share of blue chippers is more my point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
he was
44th overall… I divided by 2 for some reason.
Trying to teach a math class at the same time… sorry.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
14 out of 50
is 28%… so more than 1 in 4 of the top 50 sccorers were late or undrafted players. Admittedly most of those fell in the range of 25-50, but the likes of St. Louis, Richards, Alfredsson, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk leave hope in that ballpark also.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No one’s saying it can’t happen. The point is I sure hope my GM is not counting on it happening.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
he's not
that’s why he’s trading Kaberle
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody made that point.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
We're going to HAVE to develop without 1st round pick players
Does any team in the NHL have more undrafted players than the Leafs in their system I wonder?
Bozak
Hanson
Gustavsson
Mueller
Irwin (ugh)
Rynnas
Scrivens
Lebda (actually was undrafted!)
Simon Gyspers (i think?)
Korbian Holzer (I think?)
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
No
we drafted Holzer.
And yes other teams have lots of undrafted players in their system.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If that’s where you’re putting your faith I don’t know what to say.
Yes, some random low round pick could turn into Zetterberg but I wouldn’t bet the franchise’s future on it.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not betting anything on that
I’m saying you can develop lower round prospects. You’re conflating comments.’
I respond to what you say… you seem to move that into some NEW comment like I was saying we’re set… don’t do that.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm confused
I’m supposed to ignore your earlier comments in this thread in interpreting your more recent ones?
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
No
just don’t take my responses way beyond what I’m saying into the realm of inferring I’m an insane person on crack.. or that I’m religious about BANKING on undrafted talent.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
You can’t yell at Dale Mitchell every day until he scores 40 goals in the NHL.
We don’t have that talent in our system.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What about
Stefanovich? He has the talent possibly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s a reason he slipped in the draft. He was a relative disaster in the Q last year. You’re reaching and you know it.
He’s a lottery ticket, nothing more.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Disaster?
The kid scored 49 goals in 56 games 2 years ago.
Last year in a reduced role (because he came back late) they played him and he had 25 goals in 53 games, but he still put up 68 points. He was passing more.
He also contributed at the Worlds for the Belarussian Men’s side. He was let down by being sent back… just like a lot of players his age would be.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s a headcase who couldn’t cut it with teh Marlies and had a terribly disappointing overage season. 68 points in the Q impresses me not.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The head case thing
is amazingly personal… and not particularly constructive.
He struggled… not sure why we can be so sure he has “head” issues.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t that why he fell in the draft in the first place? I thought that was well-known. My apologies if I’m wrong.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a big difference
between being unsure a player has the work ethic to taking the next step… or saying a player is a bit spoiled with great talent so he’s never really had to work that hard… and leaping to calling him a “headcase”.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
really?
You HAVE to have a player of Kovalchuk’s talent?
How many teams have one?
Let’s see… there’s Ovechkin… Crosby… Stamkos… oh yeah and we have Kessel!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Kessel isn’t close to that level.
I could name you 20 guys at that level around the league. We have none.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
wait
I wanna know who these 20 guys are. Care to share?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
If there are 20 of them then I don’t care in the slightest that Kovy stayed in Jersey. Chase one of the other 19.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
None of the guys I listed are likely to become available.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
“/sigh”
Ovie
Sid
Sedin x 2
Stamkos
St. Louis
Kane
Toews
Backstrom
Semin
Parise
Gaborik
Thornton
Marleau
Kopitar
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Zajac
Richards
Malkin
Can I stop now?
All these guys, RIGHT NOW, are in a league I don’t see Kessel ever entering. Not to say I’d want all of them over the next 5 years, some are clearly past their prime.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
Daniel Sedin better than Kessel?
Which Richards?
Toews?
Marleau?
Most of these guys are in t he 2nd tier of talent, right where I’d place Kessel.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I also HIGHLY Question Semin.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Daniel Sedin
is probably more talented than Henrik… he just got injured last year. He scored at a higher ppg pace.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Brad
Toews? Are you serious? He was arguably the best player on Team Canada. Phil rode the pine for Team USA.
I guess we’ll wait and see.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
Toews is a different type of player. He is excellent and I love him, but he is nowhere near the goal scoring type.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoa whoa whoa… Toews Karina? I would take Toews over Kessel in a heartbeat
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
There are two players in all of hockey I’d take over Toews. Neither is Kessel.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Semin...?
really?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
so
when watching the Leafs, you say to yourself; “Alex Semin is a guy this team really needs.”
how many lazy one dimensional floaters does a team need exactly…?
I think there are only two elite players in the NHL right now; Crosby and Ovechkin. Beneath that there is Malkin, Datsyuk and Thornton. They tease with greatness, but they’re just not in the same level.
Beneath those 5 are guys like Kovalchuk, Semin, and yes Kessel (and no, not because he’s a Leaf. Been a huge fan since he was drafted). I just think it takes more than scoring goals to be considered great, or get paid $10M per.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I just think Kessel and Semin are similar type players and Semin is better. I think that’s a pretty conventional opinion outside of Toronto.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m “outside of Toronto” and this is the first I’ve heard of it…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Semin is better because of three things
1) Ovechkin
2) Backstrom
3) Green
take away any of the three and he’s a worse player… take away all 3 and he’s a lot less productive than he has been… and not far different from Kessel.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
So swap Nash and Koivu for Semin. Now I have 21 players clearly better than Kessel. WIthout breaking a sweat.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't put Zajac
ahead of Kessel.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
frankly I wouldn’t put anyone on this list who is over 27 on it.
Kessel is years away from his peak. Comparing him to those at or past their peak is not exactly fair.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 20, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
If you’re a fan of stick penalties, awesome offense, and bongo concerts, then Semin’s your guy ;)
Joe Finley to the Russians: "Como estas?"
by Steck It Out on Jul 19, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Stamkos just scored 51 goals. Kessel had 55 points.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Two
of those players, have yet to make it past the 1st round in the playoffs.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Hockey’s a team sport. You draft great talent because your team sucks.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
by SkinnyFish on Jul 19, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
30 goals on the Leafs last year.
Please tell me where Kessel’s support players such as St. Louis, Lecavalier, Malone, – heck ANYONE who the opposition’s defense would worry about – were.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s your argument? That the Leafs have so much good talent that they don’t need Kovalchuk?
What point are you trying to make?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
That it’s not the end of the world that we didn’t sign Kovalchuk. It would have been nice, yes, but I understand from the overall picture that it may not have been in the cards.
I expect Burke to get someone who is 22, 23 years old in return for Kaberle, so that the team can grow together.
Kovalchuk is 27 and does not fit the profile of who Burke has been acquiring up front.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
but you wouldn’t do it with a young team.. you’d do it with veteran UFA’s that are looking to win a championship … i.e. Hossa, Kovalchuk, etc.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Holy shit that dude is old.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
This is correct, though.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
And awesome.
Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey
by James Mirtle on Jul 19, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Incorrect. He turned 42 this past season.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You can age 2 years in an offseason though, right?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought he turned 43 last season. my bad. HES STILL FRIKKEN OLD.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Still put 3 behind Miller in the playoffs. 
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently senior citizens are Ryan Miller’s weakness.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Satan is still dancing…somewhere….
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Colombus in…
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, Viktor Stalberg.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
because it takes him to 44 years of age
And?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
did you not read what I wrote after that?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Where’s the downside to a Devils fan today?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Other than the ones who really like Salvador and Zubrus?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
if I’m a Devils fan, I’m ecstatic. This deal fits them as a competative team whose most marketable star will retire in a few years. Kovalchuk will replace Brodeur as the face of the team in the future.
As a fan of the Leafs who are rebuilding, a Kovalchuk deal like this would scare the shit out of me. We are trying to rebuild a team identity, have had to get out of some rediculous contracts the past few years, and handing the keys of the franchise to Kovalchuk, while probably the best player to take the risk on, is a hugely risky move. If Burke made the deal, I would not be upset about it. But, I am also not upset that he didn’t make it. It’s a huge risk and frankly I don’t think we’re in a position to take that risk.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What’s left to rebuild?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Oh so we’re gonna be in the playoffs next year?
Depth needs to be rebuilt, seeing Bozak, Kessel, Versteeg, Kulemin etc. continue to develop is part of rebuilding. I’m not talking just about acquiring pieces, I’m talking about actually creating a team. I’m worried about this season because while I like the roster improvements we’ve made, these players could still not be a team and we could still suck balls next year. Signing a huge deal like Kovalchuk only works, I think, when you already have a number of pieces that you know work. Same as Hossa in Chicago last year.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s ridiculous just because I think these cap-circumventing deals are doing nothing other then just causing teams to be able to hold on to a player as long as they want them dump them and have them “retire” and the cap hit goes away. If anything, for deals over 10+ years the cap hit should stick even if they retire, but that’s just my opinion.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
If you replaced New Jersey Devils with Toronto Maple Leafs in that sentence, would you be angry?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, because betman would take away the leafs next 2 first rounders or something
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh exactly, I have a hard time rationalizing in my mind a situation in which Gary would actually punish Lou the way that he would throw down the banhammer on Burke.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Or the league could just enforce a limit on the number of years a deal is allowed to be.
No team signs a player for 15+ years and actually expects them to play for the entire duration of the deal, except for maybe the Islanders…. and we all know how that turned out.
Well I mean, I think the one good thing that the NBA does is make sure that the max length of a contract is 6 years. While I think you could probably go a bit longer, like 7 or 8 years max, I think it says a lot when every star out there is on a 12-17 year deal. It just smacks of trying to circumvent the system.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with one thing
Toronto would have gotten bitchslapped by the league if we tried that
the Amazing Lou will probably get away with it.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It makes me angry, because there are too many loopholes where the Devils could get out of it early if they wanted to. Kovi will obviously retire before he is 44 and if he does the cap hit just goes away.
Deals like this are nothing but a joke and the league has to do something to prevent them.
Yes and as long as teams are getting away with these deals we should be getting away with them too.
We brought Burke in to GM the fuck out of the league not to say “oh well that’s a loophole we won’t get involved”.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Do we know what Lombardi offered him?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh
wyshynski
Great thing about Kovalchuk contract: He’ll still be playing w/ #Devils when Brodeur’s son takes over in goal.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Well...
atleast we can all try and move on now. I hope we start seeing more trades now that this is all done & over with.
"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!
omfg, Ilya didn't sign in TO
"I don’t know what it is about me that makes people think I want to hear their problems. Maybe I smile too much. Maybe I wear too much pink. But please remember, I can rip your throat out if I need to."
by Wrap Around Curl on Jul 19, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions
please. call the number. we can help you.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
by SkinnyFish on Jul 19, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
before the call I was all
but now, with the help of 515-y-no-ilya I’m all
don’t know where the elmo doll came from, but I’’m guessing it’s the drugs. Thanks Y-NO-ILYA!
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
i feel that this might help
Ilya will only be good for 5 or less years
33 seems to be the end of a goal-scorer’s productivity.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
good read
makes some interesting points
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting?
It pretty much sums up exactly why Burke shouldn’t be paying a $6 mill cap hit for Kovalchuk going forwards… he’ll be good, but not $6 mill cap hit good.
Based on history, the odds say he’s already peaked.. and will now begin a decline of sorts… He’ll be a regular 30-40 goal scorer for years to come, but is $6 mill a year for 17 years worth that? Not really.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess $100M figure isn't set in stone yet
Kovalchuk has signed a 17-year deal which could top $150 million, a source told ESPN.com’s Scott Burnside.
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/news/story?id=5392170
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
O_O
That’s a caphit of $8.824M if that’s true. That’s fucking ridiculous.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
SO. MUCH. MONEY.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah… I wouldn’t touch that.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I gotta figure it’s going to be somewhere inbetween this figure and $100m.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
17 years for $100M is $5.88M caphit. Anything over a $7M caphit, or $120M total in salary is ludicrous.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Everything about this Kovalchuk saga has been ludicrous.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
At the same time, I wouldn’t be in any rush to sign if I were him. He shouldn’t short himself just because other GMs are holding up trades because of him.
If any of these dollar figures are true, his agent did really well for Kovalchuk, even if he was a pain in the ass.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
15 years at 8.842 not even close to what I’d offer.
We still need to add goals though.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
so what player should we obsessively covet right now?
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
but we has him already
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
nah, we need to go in a new direction…..hmmmm
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Jamie Benn!
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t care what your urban dictionary says, I refuse to acknowledge that as a word.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
When did “cushion for the pushin” become not good enough anymore?
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
badonkadonk
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
FLAGGED!!!1
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys did pick up a Mueller.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 19, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
TAMPERING!
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jul 19, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Where’s it talk about the money in the article?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Right at the top.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The Score’s reporting that too. That’s just insane.
Well, I’m an idiot, Burke was right, if this is what Kovy was asking for it was a waste of time.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s almost as if we need to see the contract before we can decide whether it’s a good deal or not…
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Jul 19, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That has never stopped us before.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
by 1967ers on Jul 19, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like you
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
CRAZY TALK
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
Why should I care where Ilya Kovalchuk goes? I am perfectly happy to see him stay in NJ. You know who Kovy reminds me of? Alex Mogilny, talent like you wouldn’t believe, but just kind of a dick, worse in a dressing room than Olli Jokinen. Let’s be honest here Burke made it very clear to all the fans that he has no interest in Kovalchuk before the frickin’ draft. My only regret is that he didn’t go to the Wstern conference were we wouldn’t have to see him any more than once or twice a season.
Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Yes I find myself VERY amusing
Amen.
This “we have to sign anybody and everybody because they have talent” mentality is ridiculous. Some players just aren’t good fits. Some player hold back the overall plan. Some, like Kovalchuk tio Toronto are just bad timing. According to some on this blog Kovalchuk was the biggest opportunity since skates were invented for a hockey team and yet only TWO teams put in serious offers.
Why is that?
A 40+ goal scorer – when signed to a reasonable contract – should be a good fit everywhere.
Find us another consistent 40+ goal scorer that’ll be available in the next 4 years. Bonus points if we can gain him without giving up real assets.
This is a stupid argument because Kovy never appeared to have any interest in the Leafs, not because of money, but because they aren’t contenders.
Hopefully we’ll reach that status within 17 years!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe it was published somewhere (from at least a semi-reputable source) that the Leafs were “on Kovy’s list.”
It was Mirtle @ the Globe and Mail.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s interesting about the Kovalchuk talk is that I’ve been told pretty definitively that the Leafs were among the teams he was interested in.
of course they were
what other teams had lots of money to help him negotiate the price he wanted?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Right; I’m just saying that this “We never could have had Kovalchuk” or “he was never interested in us for a second” line is just BS and has been debunked for weeks.
"We never could have had Kovalchuk"
For me at least, that was more due to the fact we didn’t know about the perf bonus penalty, hadn’t signed Lebda yet, and didn’t realize that Kovy was looking for $100M. Once those facts came out, it was over for Toronto.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Armstrong and Lebda shot our Kovy hopes in the foot. But realistically, I don’t think Burke was ever going to bite on Kovy’s term. Brian likes ’em young.
I’m more inclined to think it had more to do with Burke hates those lifetime contracts that tail out. Has some moral opposition against their blatent attempt to circumvent the CBA.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t buy the idea that Burke’s “unspoken rules” and individual interpretation of the CBA would keep him from what he wants. I think he’s looking to build a team with a future beyond his time here, and that doesn’t include a player who’ll be 31 before he leaves. Consider that Anaheim and Vancouver have both been contenders for longer than Brian served there.
Before he leaves, I expect Komi and Beauch out (replaced by Schenn and Gunnar, respectively) and our core group of scorers to be around 26 or 27, in their physical peaks. He wants the team to grow together, and wants his top 6/4 acquisitions to either be guaranteed to be damn good for a long time (Phaneuf will not stop hitting things at 30), or be young and clearly up-and-coming (Bozak, Kessel, Versteeg).
I wish that included Kovy, but this is the only logical reason I can think for not fighting a little harder for the Russian. Burke sticks to his mo[u]lds. It also explains less fighting for Gagne, and makes me excited to see who we get back for the Kabby trade.
I think Burke decided he wanted Armstrong and Lebda regardless of what happened with Kovalchuk
If I had to bet, Burke kicked the tires on Kovalchuk and decided he didn’t want to be part of a bidding war that clearly wouldn’t have been worth the cap hit, and then everything changed with the emergence of the retirement deals, culminating in an “I can’t believe it’s not illegal” deal he signed with the Devils, only at that point Ilya was down to two teams.
Resident Capologist
i think “interest” in this instance might be a relative term.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Bingo
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
This isnt NHL10 where you can throw money at people and they will sign
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
My main objection to this is
Mogilny was pretty far from a dick in the dressing room.
He didn’t have huge problems with any of his teammates… and he won a Stanley Cup.
He was SARCASTIC with the press… and he thought a lot of the questions he was asked were moronic. People probably didn’t like it all the time, but I found him to be awesome in the locker room.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Played with him didja? Sat next to him on the plane? Cozied up to him in the hotel? And to my admittedly uncertain knowledge Tucker and Mogilny had a pretty big personal problem with each other, I’m not sure what it was or even if it was Tucker but from what I recall nobody shed any tears when this guy left.
Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Yes I find myself VERY amusing
Played with him didja? Sat next to him on the plane? Cozied up to him in the hotel?
Did you?
"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."
Didn’t need to, formed my own opinion of him based on blinding self-rationalization and petulance.
Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Yes I find myself VERY amusing
Awesome. So did Steve.
Unless you have some kind of blinding proof, this argument could go either way because it’s based on opinion, yes?
"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."
What's this?!
My own word is not good enough for thee? I shan’t have my words gainsaid by the likes of thee sir! I demand satisfaction! I challenge you sir! Pistols at dawn!
Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Yes I find myself VERY amusing
I imagine duels to be more like this
"My country is the world, my religion to do good" - Thomas Paine
I don't think you're thinking of Tucker and Mogilny
I think it was Corson and Mogilny. Corson supposedly either made a pass at, or slept with Mogilny’s wife… or that was the rumour… which is part of what led to Corson seeing his way out of town… if I recall… that and colitis… which also sucks.
If that extended to Mogilny and Tucker, Tucker was married to Corson’s sister, and was one of his best friends. I’m not sure I’d think less of Mogilny for anything like that…
This is a case of people over-valuing Tucker, or Corson… and undervaluing Mogilny.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I loved Mogilny. Everything about him.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I had a friend who pronounced his name Mog-IN-ly, I yelled at him everytime we played NHL 94 on Sega.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I liked him a lot too. Remember seeing him being asked by the press about whether something or other was hard on him – cuing deep concern – and he said words to the effect of “look, I’m really lucky. I get payed to play a children’s game for a living”.
I thought, “yep, there’s a guy with perspective.”
Mogilny was awesomeness
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 20, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Silence sir!
We are dueling sir!
Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Yes I find myself VERY amusing
This is exactly what I heard…. that it also led to Mogilny leaving the team for a few games leading up to the Playoffs… also heard that it led to a pretty big fracture in the dressing room, where 4 team members weren’t alerted to the change in the year-end team party
Finally on the Twitter train, @j6events. Follow me, I swear I'll have interesting thoughts soon!
by BetterThanBester on Jul 19, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Belak also supposedly punched Corson in the face (leading to a black eye), or so the story goes.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jul 19, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
BEALK!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t he a UFA this year?
BRING BACK BEALK!
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jul 19, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Just, um, not as a hockey player.
Perhaps he could be Carleton, and then rush onto the ice periodically to punch out senators.
Gagne to TBL!
To the FTB to discuss!
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2010/7/19/1576190/puppies-rule#comments
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Buh buh buhhhhhhh
Insidepghsports
Talk from league contacts, Kovalchuk’s deal is in the range of $127.5 million over 17 yrs, with a cap hit in the mid $7 million range.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
not sure i understand what you’re trying to say…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
If Bengie Molina can hit for the cycle,
Brian Burke can find a way to acquire another scoring threat.
I hope.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
The greatest part of the Kovalchuk signing and the Gagne trade is that Brian Burke makes at least one move within the next two days – or at least me thinks.
The less great part
Is that none of the players involved will be Kovalchuk
My Goal Is To Make Each Comment As Meaningless As Possible
SIGN AND TRADE FOR KABERLE!!!!!1
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
MOAAAAAAAR RUMOURS
dchesnokov
Kovalchuk $102m over 17 years. $10m per year for the first 8 years. $7.5 for the next 2, from what I heard.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Ugh.
Damnit.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
If true, that’s an annual caphit of $6M flat. We can all go back to being outraged now.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
so that means the salary structure is probably: 10M for 8 yrs, then, 5M, 2.5M, and then 2M for 7 yrs? That comes out to 101.5 million.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Look, we can be outraged as much as we like, but as far as I can tell, there is still to be a league investigation into this no doubt, and we’ll see what that has to say about this whole ordeal.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Ilya Kovalchuk has already played 9 seasons in the league, and just agreed to a contract to play 17 more.
That would tie him with Gordie Howe for the NHL record for most seasons played.
I’m willing to bet the house I don’t own yet that in 2030 the record holder for both Most NHL Games Played and Most NHL Seasons Played is not Ilya Kovalchuk
Resident Capologist
I agree. I think when the leage looks at the deal I don’t think it’s going to pass the BS meter to be honest, I just don’t see how in god’s name it could
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I can guarentee that Bettman’s already on the phone with Lou saying “WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME”
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Yeah Bettman and him like to play bingo together at the Seniors club, this might make things a little icy going forward. I wonder if Gary will let Loud borrow his dabbers, or if he is going to give him the cold shoulder? The intrigue…
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s played eight seasons.
Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey
by James Mirtle on Jul 19, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
dchesnokov is saying it’s $10M for 8 years, then $7.5M for 2. That means that the last 7 years are worth a grand total of $7M, or just $1M per. Nasty.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
The CBA is fairly confusing, but it sounds like a contract cannot halve or double in value between years. Its fairly clear on the doubling side, but less so the other way.
Also, number of players that scored 50 goals at any point in their careers and played at age 44: 0.
Players that played played in their 43-44 year: Claude Lemeiux, Theo Fluery, Chris Chelios, Mark Recchi (Just gonna assume), Gordie Howe, some guys from the stone ages.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
This is the key part
Such knowledge or knowledge imputed under Section 26.3©(i) of a
Player applies to all references to Players set forth in Sections 26.1, 26.3 and 26.5, i.e., a
Player has not engaged in a Circumvention unless the Player knew or reasonably should
have known that the conduct at issue was intended to have and did have the effect of
defeating or Circumventing the provisions of this Agreement or the intention of the
parties as reflected by the provisions of this Agreement, including without limitation,
provisions with respect to the Team Payroll Range, the Entry Level System, and/or Free
Agency.
I’m pretty sure the player, his agent, and the team ALL know the intention of this contract is to circumvent the Team Payroll Range issue.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
This is an example of a circumvention of the CBA
e) A Club and a Player, during the Player’s active career, agree that upon the Player’s retirement, he will receive a sum of money for services to be provided to the Club after retirement.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they’d have to. Nothing in this deal violates a written law of the CBA.
As far as the retirement investigation they did for Hossa’s deal it would literally take the NHL finding a piece of paper signed by Kovalchuk, Lamoriello and Grossman that was notarized and said “KOVALCHUK WILL RETIRE FIVE YEARS BEFORE THIS DEAL ENDS TO CIRCUMVENT THE CAP” for anything to happen there.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Keep in mind if they somehow limit the front-loading loophole with the next CBA NJ is stuck with that contract.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
I would be very surprised if whatever move they make on these contracts is retroactive.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? I think that’s exactly what they will do as far as I can tell. It gives them incentive to punish the teams who decided to abuse the CBA before and makes them vulnerable going forward.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
No way they do that. There has to be a grandfathering effect here.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Yep. They can’t decide after the fact that something they allowed was against the rules after all. That would be even lamer than the system that’s allowed these contracts in the first place.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright, well how about making so that the salary value gets put against the cap after they retire or what have you for the life of the contract in those cases exceeding x number of years. I just feel like grandfathering all of these deals only means that every team (except the Leafs) are going to offer their star players massive deals up until the last possible day, just screwing free agency entirely.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright, well how about making so that the salary value gets put against the cap after they retire or what have you for the life of the contract in those cases exceeding x number of years.
They might do that, but it won’t affect contracts that were already signed before they do. No way.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jul 19, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s more than likely they retroactivly make it so that any deals over 8 years will count against the cap for the duration of the contract, regardless of player status.
I like to get banged. Banging rocks together, 140 characters at a time.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i hope they do so…..that’ll teach em…….i have no problem with deal like Ovechkin’s where the player is relatively till the end of his contract…..but these deals where they’ve already discussed in what time frame the player retires……..17 years is absolutely ridiculous……..do they really think Kovulchuk is going to be play past 40?
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
@CraigCustance Rich Hammond reports that L.A.’s last offer to Kovalchuk was 15-year deal worth $80 million. Offered on Thursday.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
How? That’s a $6m pa cap hit. Kessel’s is $5.4m.
"My country is the world, my religion to do good" - Thomas Paine
80/15=5.333333333
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Whatya got there, numbers?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 19, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s ok, i had to cut off two thirds of one of my fingers to figure it out…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
try again
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Just checked In Lou We Trust, and yeah, we’ve got more comments about us not signing Kovy than they do of him signing with them. Irony.
Pumps out more male with one thrust of the pelvis than the United States postal service over the last 146 years.
Ok
so Kovy puts them at $61,941,666 in cap hit, if it’s a $6 mill cap hit deal.
They need to offload at least $2,541,666 in salary before next year. They have exactly 6 D signed, and 2 goalies. They only have 12 forwards under contract.
That means they need to probably bring in one more D, and maybe one more forward. If they lose that salary by dealing a forward, they will then have to add 3 players worth less than what they offload.
They’re not offloading a nobody here… it’ll be someone of value.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
They just brought in
Arnott, and re-signed Clarkson… Rolston is 35+ so few teams would want him. I doubt they want to move Zajac or Parise. Langenbrunner doesn’t really make enough to help out their contract situation plus he’s their captain. That leaves Zubrus and Elias as the most likely players to move.
Zubrus would be more likely at $3.4 million. That would get them under the cap by $858 334… which gives them the option of bringing in 2 players at minimum contracts? Most of their younger prospects are making $850 K minimum (i.e. Tedenby, Josefson, etc.)
If the Devils hope to bring up one or two of their prospects, they have to move MORE than just Zubrus.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Moving
Zajac and Zubrus, might give them more than enough breathing space, and they can bring in some prospects to compensate.
I’d take either on the Leafs.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably
but Zajac is easier to move… and you’d get better return.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't really want Zubrus either
I’d prefer Frolov, but we don’t have cap space for him right now.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
but do we really need Zubrus for anything….our bottom 6 is already full and we don’t need overpaid Zubrus…….unless its a “if you want zajac, you gotta take zubrus” kinda deal….theres no reason for us to take him
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
I’d take Zubrus if Josefson was coming back
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
he is also pretty much their only skilled NHL able Center
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm
Jason Arnott?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Brian Rolston?
He’s a C too last I checked.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
ok, how about their only skilled NHL able Center who isnt 100 years old and on the down swing of his career where he is seen to be near a liability at times
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
well the problem they have is… Brodeur matches that last part too… they need to win now… not 2 years from now.
They’re in a go for it mode.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
and trading Zajac would be detrimental to that
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
yea, I don’t think theyre desperate enough to trade Zajac……….they’d much rather trade or dump fringe players than get rid of their only decent centre
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
Ok so who are their fringe players?
Fringe players don’t help their cap problem. They’re OVER by almost $3 million…. they can’t move a lot of players who add up to that much…. they need to move ONE big cap hit and bring in smaller ones.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm guessing Elias
might be the one on the move.
They’ll try to deal Zubrus first… and possibly Rolston… but I doubt they’ll get many takers.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Who actually wants
a $3.4 mill cap hit in Zubrus when he scored 27 points in 51 games last year.. or 37 point producing Brian Rolston who is making over $5 mill a year?.. .and is a 35+ deal?
Good luck.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Rolston is a 35+, but he’s only got this year and next.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Salvador could be gone too.
If Salvador and Zubrus get moved/waived, that leaves them with 18 players signed, $4.5M in cap space, approx 900k per spot.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
ok
so who the hell wants Salvador at $2.9 million?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
they might waive them and put them in Albany...
Which makes some sense.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think NJ is the type to pay someone that kinda money in the A. Even with all of their success they have never made HUGE money (not saying they are not a fiscally sucessful team. Just not loaded).
They have done it already with Mogilny and Malakhov.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
They're owned in large part by the same organization
that owns the YES network and the NY Yankees… I think they’d be fine with it… they have lots of money.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya that’s why I said trade/waive.
Some team might not mind picking either one off waivers.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
On recall
maybe… but then they’re stuck with half the salary counting against the cap… so it doesn’t help them.
Paying half the players salary hurts your cap… unless the whole thing is gone? I have no idea how that actually works… does the half price thing count against the cap?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
like
if we waive finger… and then recall him and someone picks him up… if they’re paying HALF his salary… do they get the WHOLE cap hit? or half of it?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
good question
I’d think the whole cap hit goes to the new team, but who knows…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 19, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Half cap hit, half salary.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
the Stars still have Avery on their cap.
Also, the Devils could go the “injury” route like they did with Mogilny.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 19, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no way they are moving Zajac—at least, not for anything we could offer.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It’ll be Zubrus and Salvador. Book it.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 19, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
If the $6M cap hit is right….
LENGTH: 17 YEARS VALUE: $102,000,000 TYPE: STANDARD EXPIRY STATUS: UFA
* CONTRACT DETAILS AND BONUSES (IF APPLICABLE) NOT OFFICIAL — CHECK BACK SOON *
SEASON AHL SALARY NHL SALARY P. BONUSES S. BONUS CAP HIT
2010-2011 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2011-2012 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2012-2013 $11,500,000 $11,500,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2013-2014 $11,500,000 $11,500,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2014-2015 $11,500,000 $11,500,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2015-2016 $11,500,000 $11,500,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2016-2017 $11,500,000 $11,500,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2017-2018 $10,500,000 $10,500,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2018-2019 $8,500,000 $8,500,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2019-2020 $6,500,000 $6,500,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2020-2021 $3,500,000 $3,500,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2021-2022 $750,000 $750,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2022-2023 $550,000 $550,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2023-2024 $550,000 $550,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2024-2025 $550,000 $550,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2025-2026 $550,000 $550,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
2026-2027 $550,000 $550,000 — NO DATA $6,000,000
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
What's that you say?
For hilarity, you also want to know what the buyout would look like?
SEASON ACTUAL SALARY CAP HIT BUYOUT SAVINGS BUYOUT CAP HIT
2010-2011 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $4,000,000 $2,000,000
2011-2012 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $4,000,000 $2,000,000
2012-2013 $11,500,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $9,500,000 $-3,500,000
2013-2014 $11,500,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $9,500,000 $-3,500,000
2014-2015 $11,500,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $9,500,000 $-3,500,000
2015-2016 $11,500,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $9,500,000 $-3,500,000
2016-2017 $11,500,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $9,500,000 $-3,500,000
2017-2018 $10,500,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $8,500,000 $-2,500,000
2018-2019 $8,500,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $6,500,000 $-500,000
2019-2020 $6,500,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $4,500,000 $1,500,000
2020-2021 $3,500,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $1,500,000 $4,500,000
2021-2022 $750,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $-1,250,000 $7,250,000
2022-2023 $550,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $-1,450,000 $7,450,000
2023-2024 $550,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $-1,450,000 $7,450,000
2024-2025 $550,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $-1,450,000 $7,450,000
2025-2026 $550,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $-1,450,000 $7,450,000
2026-2027 $550,000 $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $-1,450,000 $7,450,000
2027-2028 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2028-2029 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2029-2030 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2030-2031 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2031-2032 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2032-2033 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2033-2034 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2034-2035 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2035-2036 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2036-2037 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2037-2038 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2038-2039 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2039-2040 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2040-2041 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2041-2042 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2042-2043 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
2043-2044 $0 $0 $2,000,000 $-2,000,000 $2,000,000
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
lets be honest we’d be roasting burke if he did this deal.. what a ridiculous contract
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 19, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
speak for yourself. I wouldn’t roast Burke for the kovalchuk deal.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
$6M cap hit? We’d be laughing so hard our tears would short out our computers.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I'd be upset
17 years at $6 mill per for a guy who is going to start his decline in the next 2 or 3 years is pretty fucking idiotic.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We paid Kessel $5.4MM last year. I think Kovalchuk will be a 30+ goal scorer until he’s 35 or so, then his contract drops so much it would be easy to dump him to a salary floor team. If he retires, you’re set; if he doesn’t, Kovy at 44 would probably still be worth the league minimum he’d be making.
Also keep in mind salary inflation. $6MM in 8 years will probably be the equivalent of $4MM now. 30 goal scorer for $4MM? Yes please.
This deal is awesome for NJ.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 20, 2010 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
I think people are losing site of the front-ended nature of this contract. Kovalchuk will likely retire in 10 years (or less). By that time, the bulk of the compensation will be paid, his cap hit – as a percentage of the total cap – will be significantly smaller, and he may also be a nice trading chip for teams that need to hit the cap floor.
I can’t argue with a $6M cap hit for guy with Kovalchuk’s boxcars – the term is pure cap circumvention and largely meaningless.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I can't really read that
but I Think the buyout savings would be like $4 million or something absurd… it’s the remainder owing times twice the years, since the cap hit is $6 mill, and they’d be paying him $330K mill for like 20 years, that’s a savings of $1.67 mill for all those years he’s making $2 million. Since the cap hit is originally $6 mill, you subtract the savings to get the cap hit. That’s $6 mill minus $1.67 million (cap hit savings). That means their cap hit with him bought out would be $4.33 million in the $2 mill years.
They won’t buy him out… he has to retire.
The Buyout cap hit is
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 19, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
can’t drop from 3.5 million to 750k
no more than a 50% step down allowed
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
That myth needs to be busted
Vincent Lecavelier
LENGTH: 11 YEARS VALUE: $85,000,000 TYPE: STANDARD EXPIRY STATUS: UFA
SEASON AHL SALARY NHL SALARY P. BONUSES S. BONUS CAP HIT
2009-2010 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
2010-2011 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
2011-2012 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
2012-2013 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
2013-2014 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
2014-2015 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
2015-2016 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
2016-2017 $8,500,000 $8,500,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
2017-2018 $4,000,000 $4,000,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
2018-2019 $1,500,000 $1,500,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
2019-2020 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 — NO DATA $7,727,273
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Counterpoint #2
Marc Savard
LENGTH: 7 YEARS VALUE: $28,050,000 TYPE: STANDARD EXPIRY STATUS: UFA
SEASON AHL SALARY NHL SALARY P. BONUSES S. BONUS CAP HIT
2010-2011 $7,000,000 $7,000,000 — NO DATA $4,007,143
2011-2012 $7,000,000 $7,000,000 — NO DATA $4,007,143
2012-2013 $6,500,000 $6,500,000 — NO DATA $4,007,143
2013-2014 $5,000,000 $5,000,000 — NO DATA $4,007,143
2014-2015 $1,500,000 $1,500,000 — NO DATA $4,007,143
2015-2016 $525,000 $525,000 — NO DATA $4,007,143
2016-2017 $525,000 $525,000 — NO DATA $4,007,143
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems like
As long as Burke is in charge, it won’t happen.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Luckily we don’t have any players worth locking up to a lifetime deal.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Irwin?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, who?
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jul 20, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Then what about this - Directly from the CBA
50.7 “100 Percent Rule” for Multi-Year SPCs. The difference between the stated
Player Salary and Bonuses in the first two League Years of an SPC cannot exceed the
amount of the lower of the two League Years. Thereafter, in all subsequent League
Years of the SPC, (i) any increase in Player Salary and Bonuses from one League Year to
another may not exceed the amount of the lower of the first two League Years of the SPC
(or, if such amounts are the same, that same amount); and (ii) any decrease in Player
Salary and Bonuses from one League Year to another may not exceed 50 percent of the
Player Salary and Bonuses of the lower of the first two League Years of the SPC (or, if
such amounts are the same, 50 percent of that same amount).
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly the actuality of this paragraph isn’t clear… I’m sure it was discussed and accepted by the NHL for every one of those contracts I referenced above, and including Kovalchuk.
The wording is tricky. I mean, what the fuck does this really mean?:
(ii) any decrease in Player Salary and Bonuses from one League Year to another may not exceed 50 percent of the Player Salary and Bonuses of the lower of the first two League Years of the SPC (or, if such amounts are the same, 50 percent of that same amount).
It’s tricky lawyer-speak!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
working this true.
Hypothetical:
Year 1: 10 M
Year 2: 20 M
… [skip a few years] ….
Year X: 7M
Year X+1: <=== what salary can we have here?
What can Year X+1 drop to?
The lower of the first 2 years is 10 M (cos it’s less than 20, right).
Half of 10M is 5M.
So year X+1 can’t drop by more than $5M from year X… that is, it must be at least $2 million…
So all that means is that on very long contracts you have to ratchet down the pay over a couple of years.
Also, note, Ilya’s first 2 years have much lower pay than his later years. I bet that has this rule in mind.
Hmm, if they really wanted to drop the salary quickly using this rule, the first two years would have the highest salaries. At 6M per year, they can only drop the salary 3M between any two years but if they started with two 11.5M years, they could drop it nearly 6M per year.
I’m going to guess that the first two years at 6M a year have something to do with a contract that they need to eat that they need real dollars (as opposed to cap dollars) to pay. There is a suspicious-looking contract expiring in two years whose value is almost exactly the amount of real dollars that Kovalchuk’s salary increases by in the 3rd year… Rolston’s. Also, Brodeur’s contract (of around 5M per year) ends in two years. I could see a serious push by NJ to try to win a cup in the next couple of years, and perhaps they’ve convinced Kovalchuk to take less real dollars so they can bury the right contracts to maximize that chance.
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that they’ve already convinced Kovalchuk to waive his NTC two years from now anyway – his new team will be footing the 5M wage increase. If he’s still nearly as good as he is now, he’s still a steal at his cap hit. Net result to the Devils – two years of Kovalchuk in his prime at 6M cap hit per year, and 6M real dollars year too… plus whatever they can trade Kovalchuk’s contract for. Net result to Kovalchuk – two years at reduced salary for a chance to win a cup while Brodeur is still playing, plus the guarantee of a large payday afterwards.
Where did I leave my tinfoil hat again?
Oh, huh, good insights. Could mean they figure they can’t get out from under Rolston, but more likely that they’re waiting for Brodeur to be up.
I’m not sure they could count on a conspiracy working that far in advance though. I mean, they can set it up as an option, and if it works out then great, but 2 years is a long time, and Ilya in 2 years could change his mind and Kibosh the whole thing. So NJ has to be willing to live with what will happen if the conspiracy doesn’t work out anyway.
Plus in 2 years I’m not sure he WOULD be worth it. He’s probably only got 5 more years of high level production in him (someone else cited the page on this somewhere else on this thread), so you’d be paying a fortune in real and cap dollars and potentially crippling anchor further down the road, for, what, 3 years of top production? And probably falling off even within that….
This is why there are so many
FRONT LOADED contracts. It allows for huge drops later in the deal.
If they pay Kovalchuk $10 mill in the first two years, they can drop by up to $5 million in any subsequent year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Kovalchuk is paid$6 million in the first two years, if anyone was wondering.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 20, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
And his contract never drops by more than $3MM/yr.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 20, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Skipped Math
joined broadcasting
Please don't act like this comment is important
by Archimedies on Jul 20, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
The decrease
can’t exceed 50% of the player salary + bonuses in the lower of the first two years of the SPC.
In Lecavalier’s deal, the first two years had salary + bonuses worth $10 mill, so 50% is $5 mill. No drop in his deal from year to year can be higher than $5 million. The drop from $8.5 to $4 is only $4.5 mill, and the drop from $4 to $1 mill is only $3 mill… both of which are less than $5 million.
In Savard’s deal the salary + bonuses are at $7 mill each year, so 50% is $3.5 mill. No drop in his deal from year to year can exceed $3.5 million. The drop from $5 to $1.5 million in year 5 is $3.5 mill… the maximum allowed. The drop from $1.5 to $525 K in year 6 is less than $1 million so that’s not an issue.
This isn’t that confusing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we needed a math teacher to explain it to us. This is not how I thought it applied. I thought it was a 50% drop off from the previous year’s salary, but you have shown otherwise. Thanks.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 20, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of CAP HITs
Sources tell capgeek.com nine teams will face a cap reduction this coming season because performance bonuses earned pushed them past the upper limit in 2009-10. The Blackhawks lead the way by a long shot at an estimated $4.15 million, but the Boston Bruins and Toronto Maple Leafs are getting hit hard too.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Here we go with the penalties... Leafs are up against the CAP as a result
The Bruins face a penalty in the range of $1.75 million and the Maple Leafs are next at $1.4 million. Other notable penalties include the Edmonton Oilers, at $354,500, and the San Jose Sharks, at $327,500. Four other teams — the Vancouver Canucks, Pittsburgh Penguins, Montreal Canadiens and Detroit Red Wings — face reductions of less than $100,000. Following is a complete list of estimates.
1. Chicago Blackhawks, $4,157,753
2. Boston Bruins, $1,759,795
3. Toronto Maple Leafs, $1,400,000
4. Edmonton Oilers, $354,500
5. San Jose Sharks, $327,500
6. Vancouver Canucks, $90,000
7. Pittsburgh Penguins, $83,979
8. Montreal Canadiens, $68,751
9. Detroit Red Wings, $50,000
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
there was a fanpost about this a while back, full of outrage
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 20, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup, we all agreed
We should have never signed that Cap Penalty guy.
He doesn’t do anything but collect his paycheque..
Still better than having Huet, though.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 20, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
we now have
$1,125,384 in cap space remaining.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I missed that
busy with work I guess.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
no worries. I’m just loathe to bring up more reasons for mud-slinging.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 20, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Insanity
7 Playoff teams and the 2 worst teams in the entire league
Please don't act like this comment is important
by Archimedies on Jul 20, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok so
with the pay out to Kovy in the first 2 years being $6 mill each season, that means the most it can drop in any subsequent year is $3 million.
He’s making only $750K in the 12th year of the deal, and only $550 K from then on… ridiculous
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m just happy the Islanders didn’t get him. Their fans are already bad enough.
I’ve never met a Devils fan. Do they exist? Watching their home games offers no conclusive evidence.
They mostly die of boredom in the stands due to the trap system.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
For some of those upset that we didn't sign him
You can’t simultaneously argue that he would have made our team a contender and at the same time argue that the reason why he didn’t succeed in Atlanta was because he didn’t have enough help.
Also, saying he would just add 40 goals and that would contribute directly to our success is a misnomer.
The guy poaches out at the opposing blue line while his team struggles to clear the puck.
If his on ice presence (and lack of defensive play) leads to 10-15 goals against, then the net gain is 25 goals, not 40.
Sure, his points look lovely on the stats line, but you have to balance out his contribution with his negatives.
Would I have liked to have him on the team? Sure. Will he make us good enough to compete? Probably not.
Either way we need to find another way to improve this team.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:06 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If his on ice presence (and lack of defensive play) leads to 10-15 goals against, then the net gain is 25 goals, not 40.
The metric you’re looking for is +/-ON/60. At evens, Kovalchuk is 0.90 (Crosby is 0.89).
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Do you factor in short handed markers
that occur when he’s manning the point on the PP? the Evens thing would ignore that.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
At evens, Kovalchuk is 0.90 (Crosby is 0.89).
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
capgeek
#nhl #njdevils Ilya Kovalchuk gets an NMC 2010-11 to 2016-17 and an NTC 2018-19 to 2026-27 (one-year window to move) http://bit.ly/droQnQ
Ha! That means he can be moved without a NMC or NTC ONLY in 2017-2018 season.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Can someone explain what the difference between a signing bonus and salary is?
Is it just that you get it whether you play or not? (ie you get it from the team instead of insurance if your injured, and you get it if there is a lockout?)
You get that bonus whether or not the season is played. There are some limits on how much and who can get them.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Noooooooo
dchenokov
KHL’s Salavat Yulaef started negotiations with Alexander Frolov. #LAK
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
That would leave James Neal as our only possible 1st line left winger :(
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
We can't afford Frolov
unless we deal Kaberle or Finger anyway… till that happens it’s useless to worry about it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
How has that ever stopped us before?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 20, 2010 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions
But we CAN afford frolov… just sign him to a whatever year deal, front loaded
10 mil
10 mil
5 mil
1 mil – repeat until you get a low cap hit
Jersey did it!
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 20, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone know
Which wing Grabs would be better on? Or if he has even ever played a wing?
As well which wing would Kadri be bettter on?
I don't know if he has ever played wing
but he shoots left
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 19, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The KBK line functioned like a true #1 line. If we could back it up with a 1b line of Grabs-#1 C-Steeg and run 1a/1b I think it would be sweet.
Of course reading that
I see that that could be
KBK
- Lw-Grabs-Steeg
allowing Grabs to play his normal position…
And yes i’d split up the lines to split the defenders, but of course Wilson blends his lines like no tomorrow.
woah, someone didnt automatically throw Kadri in as the 2LC,
this is my shocked face
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It's nice to see - sick of cultivating the 'entitlement' crap - though we got rid of that.
I am in the ‘let him tear up the AHL for 20 games to prove he can cut it in the bigs’ camp.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Like Hanson did?
And then did WHAT on the Leafs?
Hanson scored at a ppg in the AHL for about 20 games and then came up to do what exactly? 20 may not be enough. May need a whole season. Lets take a page from (odd day to be saying this) Jersey’s book of patience in developing their players.
different players do different things at different ages
Bozak kinda sucked in the AHL (for various reasons, but still)
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
For sure
I think a lot of it is really just trying to temper my expectations on Kadri. I am trying not to expect too much too soon. I read this site every day and I feel like Kadri is this blue chip, #1, can’t be moved player.
Then I read non-Leaf sites and I realize (a) most haven’t heard of him, and (b) most other organizations have someone like him. Until he proves his mettle in the NHL he just shouldn’t have the expectations we put on him.
as far as prospects that are “better” than Kadri there are very few, maybe 10
off the top of my head I can think of Hall, Seguin, and maybe MPS off the top of my head, but there are more
but the whole argument of which prospect is better is totally arbitrary, the only thing that matters is who becomes the best NHL player
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
There are a lot of ‘blue chip’ prospects at Kadri’s level who haven’t yet had a shot or have just begun at the NHL (Hodgson, Eberle, MPS, B.Schenn, Pietrangelo, etc)
yeah, a bunch that are at the same tier as Kadri
but very few who are projected to be “better”
I’d include Pieterangelo in that though
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
There are a lot more
you just follow other teams less would be my guess.
I could give you a list longer than 10.
Hodgson, Eberle, MPS, Schenn and Pietangelo are just the Canadian’s that you hear about from TSN’s coverage of the Juniors….
I’d say Filatov is higher, Oliver Ekman Larsson, Linus Omark, John Carlson, Mikael Backlund, possibly Joe Colborne, Mattias Tedenby, etc.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I have questions about Backlund, but that’s only because he’s older and the Flames have given him a bit of a chance and he’s done nothing in the NHL. But still, really hard to compare.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 20, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
The flames
are a black hole of screwing up these days.
I’d be hoping to get out of that organization if I was him… .maybe the Leafs trade Kaberle for Backlund… who knows.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
is Filatov maybe, Carlson I dont really count as a prospect anymore because of his extended stay with the Caps last season, Larsson sure
the rest are at the SAME level as Kadri where it is probably too close to call who is “better”
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 20, 2010 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Kadri is a prospect
I read this site for over an hour a day (usually on my ipod and can’t comment along) and thats the one thing that drives me insane.
We need to get our heads out of the clouds for what Kadri can deliver next year (if ever). I know I had this conversation a few days ago, but Kadri’s numbers were INFERIOR to Caputi’s at the same age in the OHL. Different styles or not, that has really cooled my expectations.
I’m expecting a big improvement in Caputi next year (this year?). Not a mind-blowing performance, but solid and beyond our expectations. Once he gets used to the team and not having Sid and Geno around, he’ll get better.
Kadri is a question mark. A scary question mark.
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
My outlook/hope is:
2 top 6-ers out of Bozak/Caputi/Kadri/Mueller. With the minimum definition of a top 6-er being 25 G or 55 pts.
Probably being a little to hopeful.
I don't think Caputi
or Mueller have any real hope of being a 60+ point player ever… Bozak or Kadri maybe… more likely Kadri.
Mueller and Caputi will be borderline top 6 players, like Ponikarovsky was for years… that’s my expectation.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I truly dread seeing Kadri with the Leafs this year.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I’m very scared. He’s one of those guys that’s being billed as a franchise saviour without the talent or training to help him handle it. One of those things that happens when you play here.
He should be roommates with Schenn.
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation
I am terrified he will get injured
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
terrified he will try and inside-out an NHL calibre defenceman and get his skull caved in.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 19, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not so scared of injury more that it rips apart his confidence when his slick OHL moves don’t instantly translate to the NHL. Starting in the A works for me, let him rip it up down there first.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 19, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
AHL
for a full season… is what I anticipate… and hope for actually.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Caputi's playoff numbers
vs. Kadri’s is a huge distinction… also note that Caputi never made the WJC tourney team for Canada because his skating was sub par…. and it still is.
He also isn’t that great defensively.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Where will our goals come from?
This keeps being said earlier and I can’t follow taht convo (its too hard to find it in the middle of 800 comments) so here is my take.
Kuleimin-Bozak-Kessel
20-20-40
80 is probably overly generous so I’ll take 70
LW (Kaberle trade/FA)-Grabs-Versteeg
25-20-25
70 so we’ll call it 65
Caputi-Hanson-Armstrong
15-10-20
45 so we’ll call it 40
Sjostrom-Mitchell-Orr
5-12-5
22
197 from the forwards
Phaneuf-Beauch
15-7
22
Gunner-Komi
6-2
8
Lebda-Schenn
4-6 (yeah Schenn seems like he’s got a real cannon)
10
40 from the D
237 which according to Steve earlier is more or less league average.
So where are the changes from last years Leafs?
So 70 goals from the first line it would be:
Kuleimin (18) Bozak (17) Kessel (35)
If they had all played 79 game seasons (an almost full season) with last years gpg they would have had
Kuleimin (16) Bozak (17) Kessel (34)
So an improvement of 2 goals on this line.
65 Goals from the second line would be
LW (23) Grabs (19) Versteeg (23)
If they had all played 79 game seasons (an almost full season) with last years gpg they would have had
LW (N/A) Grabs (13) Versteeg (20)
So this is a bigger improvement. 6 from Grabs, and 3 from Versteeg (I think the Versteeg one is more than probably with more ice time). As well the LW is a hope to.
For 40 goals the 3rd line would need:
Caputi (14) Hanson (9) Armstrong (17)
If they had all played 79 game seasons (an almost full season) with last years gpg they would have had
Caputi (7) Hanson (5) Armstrong (15)
So they would all need to improve a bit. But I think this is reasonable improvement for sophomores
For 22 goals
Sjostrom (5) Mitchell (12) Orr (5)
If they had all played 79 game seasons (an almost full season) with last years gpg they would have had
Sjostrom (4) Mitchell (8) Orr (4)
So the big improvement would have had to come from Mitchell, but from previous years this seems reasonable.
For the D
Phaneuf (15) Beauch (7)
If they had all played 79 game seasons (an almost full season) with last years gpg they would have had
Phaneuf (12) Beauch (5)
I think the Phaneuf improvement seems reasonable. The Beauch one is a plus/minus thing.
Gunner (6) Komi (2)
If they had all played 79 game seasons (an almost full season) with last years gpg they would have had
Gunner (6) Komi (0)
Gunner on pace, and Komi I just assumed a couple
Lebda (4) Schenn (6)
If they had all played 79 game seasons (an almost full season) with last years gpg they would have had
Lebda ( 1) Schenn (5)
Seems pretty reasonable for Schenn. But Lebda’s typical season is more like 3 or 4.
So in other words, my D was probably exaggerated by 5-10 goals. So lets say 230 instead of 237. Still a good number of goals for a team
Your big assumption is that we’ll find a 25 goal winger in the Kaberle trade.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
True, fill ins from the AHL aren’t going to produce at the same level.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 19, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
What if those fill ins are Mueller and Kadri who score fifty goals each?
What then?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I imagine we’ll all be doing cartwheels and buying lottery tickets. Injuries lead to opportunities for up and comers. Not all prospects flame out, but assuming consistent or equal success is problematic and hopeful. I know I’d be ecstatic if they achieved half that in such opportunity.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 19, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d be pretty happy next May if Kadri’s line looked something like:
50GP 15G 15A 30pts as a 19 year old playing limited duty.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I think that’s optimistic.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Agreed. I think we might see the swing of more assists than goals if and when he’s called up to the big team.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 19, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
if he catches lightening in a bottle by being fed easy PP mins he might get 10 or so more points, but yes thats realistic
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
How the hell do you score half a power play goal??
If my nose was full of nickels I would blow it all on you.
you cut the puck in half, duh
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
points per game
not power play goals.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I think there’s a possibility that the Leafs could finish as high as sixth, especially if the East is as pathetic as it was last year.
I’m just thinking long term; making the playoffs and leaving in the first round isn’t what we’re after. How do we keep this team improving if we’ve moved a ton of prospects and don’t have any AAA talent coming in cheap?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Long term sustainability is the million dollar question with this team. I’d like to see the success such as hitting sixth, but if it hinders them doing or improving upon it in the nest year and the following, then management is faltering to operate in the cap system
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 19, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
thing is, how many teams in the east look significantly better than they did last september?
Pittsburgh is much better on the back end
The Devils will have a full year of Kovy and Volchenkov
The Sens are worse defensivly but probably better offensivly
the sabers lost near all their offense on D
the habs lost their best goalie
the bruins added horton
….
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
We look significantly better because we used to look like total dogshit.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
exactomundo dude
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
wasnt a full list
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
List issue:
Boston added Horton but lost Wideman… they won’t be significantly better defensively, and their offense gets a minor boost, but since they had the lowest scoring output in the NHL last year that isn’t saying much.
Devils improve a lot, but they were already good and they now have cap problems, so who knows what difference that makes in the regular season.
Pittsburgh isn’t really that much better on the back end. Injury prone Paul Martin vs. Injury prone Sergei Gonchar? Not really an improvement to me. Zybnek Michalek is overrated as far as I can tell based on his numbers in Phoenix. He was a bit sheltered, and if he plays big minutes in Pittsburgh, he might get eaten alive.
Sens have Gonchar, but they still don’t have a centre that can set up Kovalchuk effectively, Alfredsson’s a year older, and their goaltending is still shite… oh and they lost Volchenkov, so they’re worse on the back end defensively also.
Sabres didn’t lose Myers, and he was all their offense on D last year. They are treading water as per usual.
Habs lost their top goalie, and didn’t add anyone significant… they’re not much better.
Washington didn’t change anything yet… and they let Theodore walk, so I’m not sure how they’ve improved.
Tampa Bay lost Meszaros, Tanguay, and Walker and brought in Ellis, Kubina, and Gagne. They still suck defensively, they have question marks about starting goaltending, and they can score goals well. Not sure how they’ve improved overall. They’ll be a year older in Hedman, Stamkos, and Downie, but they’ll still have complaints about Lecavalier’s performance, and Gagne will inevitably disappoint a tad.
Atlanta lost Kovalchuk and Afinogenov and Kubina… they’ll be worse probably.
Carolina brought back Corvo, and lost Whitney and B’rind’Amour… they might be better by losing some aging pieces… but they might still suck also.
Philly added more D, and their forwards are still good, but the goaltending questions remain.
Rangers still are the Rangers… i.e. sucky.
Isles have loads of cap space and haven’t done anything with it.
Florida lost Horton and Ballard and added Wideman… they’ll improve defensively, and lose out on some scoring. With Vokoun in net they’ll be on the bubble again, maybe closer to the playoffs, but probably frustrated.
Leafs added Versteeg, Armstrong, Lebda, Phaneuf, Giguere, Sjostrom, and Bozak and promoted from within. I don’t think they lost anything significant. They’ll improve from a lack of Toskala for a year. Their scoring is still in question, but so what? They’ll be better defensively, which has been their largest shortcoming for a while.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Ottawa
should have said Kovalev, not Kovalchuk… braincramp.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
So then shouldn’t we be moving Kaberle to replenish the prospect pool?
I understand your strategy; build from within, acquire eilite talent with pure cash when it’s available. But the problem is that the first part is a crapshoot, and you’re always at the mercy of someone else’s decision for the second part.
Kaberle’s our best (only?) trading chip, and we can probably move him for one or the other. Which is going to make this team better short-term and long-term? That’s the option we need to be pursuing.
Resident Capologist
If Mirtle thinks Kovalchuk would have come here for what NJD offered what defense is there for Kovalchuk not wearing blue and white?
ps. I’d trade Kaberle for the cap space he’ll free up, not sure why you think I don’t want to move him ASAP.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Its not really a defense
But I am not really surprised Burke didn’t offer this. Even before he got here, we all knew Burke was a stubborn guy as well he has a sense of honour (for lack of a better term). In other words he has things he won’t do because he doesn’t think it is the right thing.
That’s the worst case scenario. Not sure why so many people are ok with that.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I can't speak for others
But the way I see it, is that its just part of his character. I like the other things that brings around. He thinks that doing these long term deals are ‘dirty’ or wrong and I respect the guy for it, even if I don’t fully agree.
it’s kind of like that one uncle everyone has.
by gnarlybattleship on Jul 20, 2010 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow
I totally read that as “to not be that belak?”
Too many beers on a Monday.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Kulemin
scores 25, and we get a 15-20 goal guy in the trade…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
It's above average
actually. 233 was the NHL average.
Also you’re forgetting that there will be call ups that chip in the occasional goal. Kadri if he plays on the team is bound to score 5 or so… also Blacker might pot one or two…
Overall I’ll be happy if the Leafs score over 225 goals this season. That’s my watermark for the year.
If they allow under 220, and score 225 I’m happy with their progress… if the roster remains unchanged drastically between now and the regular season.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/blogs/98789604.html
The biggest shame is the Wild didn’t do the same thing with Mikko Koivu’s contract. Koivu’s got a $6.75 million cap hit for seven years. Kovalchuk has a $6 million cap hit for 17.
But the Wild listened to Bettman’s warnings, plus they wanted to make sure the contract was insured (can’t be over seven years).
But sometimes playing by the rules isn’t the best way to get ahead in the National Hockey League.
About sums it up.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Does that mean that only the first 7 years of Kovalchuk’s deal are insured, or none of it is?
Resident Capologist
I assume the first 7 years, but I assume further application after that point can be arranged then.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 19, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m trying to count the number of cups the Devils have won since signing Kovalchuk, but I’m not coming up with any…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 20, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Forbes: I sent you an email. Love you in advance.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Reading it now. Stay tuned.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
yeah, now stroke his hair
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahahahaha!
that was awesome.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 20, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
http://twitter.com/mc79hockey/status/18956022436
Shame you have a GM whose bizarre code of conduct imposes real costs on the team. It’s a change from incompetence but still.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Can someone please fill me in on how we know that it’s Burke’s opposition to front-loaded long-term contracts that is why he didn’t sign Kovalchuk? As opposed to something else like, say, Kovalchuk didn’t fit into his team building philosophy?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 20, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
1. Our love object has not appeared.
2. We are not yet emotionally prepared to blame love object.
3. BJURKE MUST DIE!!!
by not norm ullman on Jul 20, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
bye bye Kovi
I guess Boston gets another lottery pick next year ’cause we are f@#ked!!!
I think we can dodge the draft lottery. Ditching Toskala should slide us out of there.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Ballard's Law
Gustavson has more heart problems next year
Stalberg scores 35 goals , Versteeg only 20
Grabovski takes a swipe at Lebda
Armstrong injures himself playing a practical joke on Phaneuf
Phaneuf gets suspended for chit on Kovi. 25 games
Kadri gets concussed by Byfuglien
Beuchemin still sucks
Kaberle for Ribero
Mitchell still sucks
Bright spot:
Finger has outstanding season
Wendel's Law
Gustavsson puts up a .946SV% and a 1.23GAA
Stalberg gets bumped back to the AHL after he struggles in Chicago
Grabovski takes a swipe at Maxim Lapierre, connects hard
Armstrong does a Mark Bell and ruins Alfredsson while scoring 20 goals
Phaneuf scores 20, punches out boogard and runs gomez into the boards
Kadri scores 35 and wins the calder
Beauchemin plays every night like he is shutting down Ovechkin
Kaberle gets James Neal
Mitchell realizes he isnt Mario lemeux and is the leagues best 3rd line center
Bad spot
Finger has to play the whole season in the AHL because no one will trade for him
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Versteeg dangles the entire Pittsburgh team for 60 minutes before scoring 11 hole.
by not norm ullman on Jul 19, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this one better.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
you still have an irrational and unwarranted Grabbo hate?
lulz
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 20, 2010 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions
# Body – This is where you write what you want to share. For the Love of Wendel no text speak. Also, use proper punctuation, spelling, and grammar as much as possible. No one’s grading but do your best.
A Nation of Masochists
1967 - Owning the drought since 2010
Vesa Toskala plays in goal for Calgary, concedes nineteen goals on eighteen shots and gets punched in the face by Jarome Iginla so hard it reverberates through time and injures him before we could ever complete the deal for him from San Jose, invalidating it entirely, causing us to have a top six of Kessel – Bozak – Kulemin/Versteeg – Kadri – Eller.
Also Gustavsson turns up at practice one day with a torso made of metal grafted into his skin. Nobody asks why because they’re secretly too scared of the answer.
We’re undeniably going to be better than Edmonton, Florida and Atlanta next season.
The Islanders may not be ready just yet
Ottawa could easily get Toskala level goaltending next season
Calgary could very well implode, and they don’t have the cap space to fix a problem
If Mason doesn’t bounce back, Columbus could be really bad again.
If Nashville can’t adequately replace Ellis, Hamhuis and Arnott they could fall way back
Colorado and Phoenix could easily fall back to earth
Dallas is cutting payroll to facilitate a sale
I seriously don’t know what to expect out of Carolina from year to year; that team is a fucking roulette wheel
Montreal traded away the primary reason it got anywhere
Without getting too unrealistic, I just listed 3 teams we should be definitively better than and 10 teams we could very well be better than.
Resident Capologist
but they don’t have Kovy, so they obviously will suck
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 20, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Kovy would have helped make the leafs a guarenteed bubble team
if things go so wrong they are a lotto team again i doubt kovy would have saved em
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, no point in letting the next 11 months play out. Let’s just get it over with and burn Burke in effigy.
Are you actually fucking serious?
Resident Capologist
I dunno, I think he might be. After my last exchange with him, I’m really not sure.
Where’s Dr. SkinnyFish when you need to order a CATScan?
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 19, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
u have emotional issues
heed someone to hold your hand?
Really trying my damndest to follow the rules and not resort to personal attacks.
I’M TRYING PPP, I’M REALLY TRYING!!
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 20, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
you know who is holding my hand, your mom
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 20, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
takes one to know one
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 21, 2010 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions
With Kovy in NJ
I’m gonna call it right now:
Kessel scores more goals than Kovy this season.
Bank on it.
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jul 19, 2010 10:27 PM EDT reply actions
I find your optimism refreshing
ridiculous, but refreshing
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
the off-season is all about unreasonable expectations.
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jul 19, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
When I compare rosters with last year, it’s not just about seeing which names have changed… it’s also: 1) Youth maturing. Young guys we can expect to have better years… Kessel, Kulemin, Schenn, Boszak, Grabs, Monster & Gunnar are at an age where the probability is that they play better.
Then, there’s 2) Trade Gains over last year. Giggy vs Toskala as the #1 improvement. All in, I don’t feel we lose much swapping out Kabs for Phaneuf… Hagman for Versteeg… Blake for Armstrong. (And truth is, I’ll be happy seeing Kadri instead of Stajan.)
3) We had an unusual number of surprising underperformers last year (Komi, Beauch, Mitchell, Exelby, Wallin, Blake), and odds are more of these bounce back than we have new falls – maybe Komi, Mitchell, Beauch.
We still need someone to fill for Poni, but if the Kabs trade brings that – or more free agent signings – then 1) We’re better as youth matures; 2) We’re better from trades; and 3) We’re better from net bounce-backs.
by not norm ullman on Jul 19, 2010 10:28 PM EDT reply actions
I can’t see Kessel + Kulemin + Versteeg + Boszak only improving by 6 goals over last year’s paces. They’re all at an age where you’d expect further improvement, Kulie and Versteeg and Boszak would be getting more and better minutes, etc. Right now, you’ve got Caputi + Armstrong pretty much matching Kulemin + Boszak.
by not norm ullman on Jul 19, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Kulie will improve his numbers significantly just by playing the majority of the time on the 1st line, versteeg is similar in that he will be getting a top six roll with playerrs that can actually play some form of offense
And of course Bozak will (hopefully) play a whole season
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. I just look at our Top 6, and nope, Kovie’s not on it, but 5 out of 6 will be better – through maturing or trade. If we get someone for Kabs, we could even be ahead of Poni.
And all that from a base of…. no Toskala.
by not norm ullman on Jul 19, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you have against Caputi?
He has 1/3rd of an NHL season under his belt. He has excelled at every other level. Give him a little more of a chance to prove him self!
it still isnt clear what we have in Caputi, he might be a 2nd line power forward or he might be a 4th line plugger
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 19, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
See thats a valid statement!
We just don’t know yet. But I am tired of people just writing him off after 28 NHL games.
People were doing the same thing before last year with Kuleimin saying ditch him for the frat pack.
I haven't ever done that
I’ve been a Kulemin proponent since we drafted him.
As for Caputi… I’m saying he maxes out as a 15 goal grinder this year… he needs more games to keep improving, but he’s still not a 20+ goal guy in the NHL.
Give him 2 or 3 years to figure it out.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 20, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly my point
people pencil in Caputi like he’s a given.
Uhhhhh.. nobody does that.
Uhhhhh.. nobody does that.3 out of 4 people on here don’t even think he’s on the roster to start next year?
Uhhhhh.. nobody does that.3 out of 4 people on here don’t even think he’s on the roster to start next year?Where the hell you been?
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Jul 19, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
don’t bother trying.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 20, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we have a lot of players we still don’t know about, not just Caputi and Mueller. I feel that way about Grabs, Mitchell, Phaneuf, Schenn, Kadri, Hanson, Gunnar, Monster, even Boszak and Kessel. We just need to pull a couple of Aces from that deck, a few 10’s, and dump the 4’s.
by not norm ullman on Jul 19, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I love this site.
We are almost exactly at the halfway point between the cup being awarded and the beginning of training camp. (ie. the dog days of the offseason)
And yet a post about another team signing a UFA (Granted, it’s a rather monumental signing…) gets 1000+ comments.
Long live PPP.
If my nose was full of nickels I would blow it all on you.
by Kenjamin on Jul 19, 2010 10:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Cap calculator
been playing with it all afternoon, so what’s going on, did we get Kovy?
Tap it in, just tap it in, give it a little tappy, tap tap taparoo
I just can't wait
For the next podcast.
Just reading Chemmy’s words isn’t suffice for me. I need to FEEL his emotion. MF too.
Should be entertaining as heck.
My Goal Is To Make Each Comment As Meaningless As Possible
damn PPP being in Europe
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 20, 2010 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions
We’re trying to line something up on the podcast front. Stay tuned.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Pension Plan Puppets
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Friday’s Three Stars: Blackhawks lose seventh straight; Wings win nineteenth straight at home
- Puck Previews: Blackhawks reeling; Sabres streaking; Holmstrom’s 1000th game
- Will Teemu Selanne remain with the Anaheim Ducks through the trade deadline?
- Nikolai Zherdev takes stick to crotch, elbow drop in KHL game (Video)
- Puck Headlines: Accused coach Pravilov dead; more Tim Thomas heat; Junior team goes nuts post-shootout
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- Miller with a goal and two assists to lead the Warriors over the Hitmen 4-2
- NHL Capsules: Red Wings win 19th straight at home with 2-1 shootout victory
- Red Wings beat Ducks 2-1 in shootout for 19th straight home win
- Nathan Gerbe caps Buffalo Sabres' comeback in 3-2 shootout win over Dallas Stars
- QMJHL Roundup: A look at Friday's games
SBNation.com Recent Stories
StatCounter
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
