Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: This Week In GIFs

Raging about 17-year contracts (With statistics!)

As Ilya Kovalchuk just signed a stupid 17 year contract that takes him to age 44, I decided to run some numbers.

Fun fact: 24 22 players have played past the age of 42. (6 were goalies)
Links: Skaters Goalies  (13 skaters + 7 goalies, 1 of each eliminated because they weren't really players)


Missing from these lists: Andy Bathgate (42) and Harry Howell(43) because they played those years in the WHA, and Theo Fleury(42?) because he only played preseason, and Mark Recchi(43) because he hits 43 next season.
Also, because the cutoff for hockey-reference (Feb. 1) is not the end of the season, you can also make a case for adding Dave Keon, Tommy Albelin, Ed Belfour, and Curtis Joseph to this list. This makes 26 players in the history of the NHL/WHA (I may have missed a few 41 year old WHA players but i don't care enough to recheck)

Players at 40: A lot
Players at 41: >50
Players at 42: 24 22
Players at 43: 14 (1 WHA and assuming Recchi doesn't randomly retire in the next 3 months, and 5 goalies)
Players at 44: 8 7* (3 goalies)

EDIT:  * - I have removed one of the goalies (Moe Roberts, 46) because he was played for one period under the "If all your goalies are unable to play, you may put anybody in goal" rule. (He was the Blackhawks assistant trainer, and hadn't played pro hockey in six years)

I also removed Lester Patrick(43) because he was the coach/GM(/defensemen/emergency goalie) of the Rangers, and he also was played under the "If all your goalies are unable to play, you may put anybody in goal" rule.  From Wikipedia:

Patrick is famous for an incident which occurred during the Stanley Cup finals of 1928. At the age of 44, while serving as coach and general manager of the Rangers, Patrick inserted himself into a playoff game to play goal against the Montreal Maroons due to an eye injury to starting goaltender Lorne Chabot.

 

Note: he also did this one time in the regular season the year before.

It isn't a stretch to suggest that age 41 will be his last in the NHL, but he may well play in the AHL at age 42 and thus still be paid under the contract. Therefore, the last two years (or probably three) of this contract should be nullified. 42 was a reasonable arguement. 44 is not.

SEVEN PLAYERS IN HISTORY PLAYED AT 44, AND THREE WERE GOALIES (and one extended his career so he could play with his sons). Therefore, it is clear that there is no real chance of the signed player ever playing all the years in their SPC, and therefore it should be considered a circumvention of the cap.

Here’s another way of looking at it:
1248 players in history have played at least 500 games in the NHL. 4 of them played when they were age 44.  (.32%)  If you to restrict to only inactive players, there are 1042 retired players, of which 3 played when they were age 44 (Chelios is still active), or .28%. (.38% if you declare Chelios to be retired.)

If some GM or owner doesn’t write this exact letter to Gary Bettman, they should all be fired. Every one of them.  (Well, maybe with more lawyer-speak and less rage, that or just changing the font to Comic Sans)

Also, in the years he’s making 11.5 million, 36,000$ ~28,000$ (Thanks Skinny for running numbers!)  of that paycheck comes directly from Alex Ovechkin thanks to the wonders of escrow. Maybe he should complain too.

I feel better now.  Numbers always make me feel better.

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

Comment 33 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

More from Pension Plan Puppets

Devils ain't got a prayer

Dec 2011 by birky - 377 comments

Allow Me to Reintroduce Myself

Sep 2011 by Bower Power - 35 comments

Tomas Kaberle Wins The Stanley Cup

Jun 2011 by JP Nikota - 665 comments

Comments

Display:

The NHL should make a rule so that any contract that takes a player past his 35th birthday will count against the cap until the contract runs out (or for some extreme circumstance like death…before retirement though). Basically it becomes an extension of the 35+ rule and acts as a deterrent for these lifetime contracts. Players aren’t likely to take shorter deals with similar salary structure because few top players (the guys who get these contracts to begin with) would be willing to take around $750,000 for a season in which they are 34 or 35 years old.

Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90 or add me to XBox Live - CoolJ90

by CoolJ90 on Jul 20, 2010 11:13 AM EDT reply actions  

I like the idea of putting in limitation on the difference between the cheap years and expensive years of a front loaded contract. For example, no contract year can pay out less than half of any other contract year. This would make it impossible for the early years of a contract to essentially act as an unofficial signing bonus.

Right now these 10-12-15-17 year contracts are allowing teams to throw huge money at players NOW, circumvent the cap, and then buy out or trade players when their annual “real money” salary becomes cheap later in their careers. This amounts to the same as paying a player under the table, and it removes bargaining power from teams with cap space and puts it right back into the hands of teams with huge budgets, which defeats the purpose of the cap system.

I honestly don’t know why no one offered Kovalchuk a 100 year, $103 million contract. Kovalchuk would still get paid $10 million in his playing years, but this would bring his average cap hit down close to league minimum.

by TMLSiegeinVancouver on Jul 20, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

It might be hard to convince the league that Kovy still plans on playing by the age 127.

Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.

by nhlcheapshot on Jul 20, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

just say you’re pre-emptively signing his kids

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 20, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its not as underhanded as the 21 year “Personal Services” contract the oilers signed Gretsky to which was entirely to make the NHL take the oilers franchise if they wanted gretsky in the NHL.

This is pretty much the only reason the oilers are an NHL franchise.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 20, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

If this contract goes through, you might as well sign everyone to 100,000 year contracts because it clearly doesn’t matter anymore. its a difference in probability of .32%

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 20, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hadn't read this yet

but I posted something similar in the FTB. Completely agree

A Nation of Masochists
1967 - Owning the drought since 2010

by furcifer on Jul 20, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also a funny thing i just realized: There is a 33% chance that Taylor Hall will retire before Kovalchuk’s contract expires.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 20, 2010 1:24 PM EDT reply actions  

That’s funny. This is good work but you forgot one statistic:

0% chance Bettman overrules Lou on this.

I hope I’m wrong.

by The '67 Sound on Jul 20, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do too, because it means another lockout if you are right.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 20, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

UPDATE to cure a bit of my pessimism

Maybe Lou doesn’t like the contract either

Chances of nullification: Now ~5% (Its the small victories that matter)

[s/t Puck Daddy.]

This also sounds like someone who was under the impression they were CEO/supreme dictator only to find out that they weren’t.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 20, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting that for both the Kings and Devils, it was ownership driving the bus with the GMs reluctantly dragged along.

by The '67 Sound on Jul 20, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

It also seems to indicate that Lou does not believe he is getting a contract extension.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 20, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

holy crap if I was a Devils fan I’d be scared. Ownership pushing Lou around is not good news.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jul 20, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, really – interesting read…

Best part: “The contract, which includes a no-movement clause for the first seven seasons and a no-trade clause for the last nine, is a complicated one.”

All it takes is one below average season in Toronto, and that NMC/NTC looks horrible.

BS

by MapleLeafMole on Jul 20, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

YAY 0%

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. I think I need a drink now.

by Wan Ihite on Jul 21, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

must have rounded down.

A Nation of Masochists
1967 - Owning the drought since 2010

by furcifer on Jul 23, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

:)

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. I think I need a drink now.

by Wan Ihite on Jul 23, 2010 6:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also curious: Why would the players vote for the salary inflator when only people who sign front loaded contracts in the same year as the vote make money while EVERY OTHER PLAYER loses money if they do? I imagine its agents, who gain money from the salary cap going up, and the players are just too stupid to figure that out.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 20, 2010 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

I think you’re right, and Oilers bloggers have covered this (mc79 probably—he also has a great post on the Kovy deal that I fanshotted).

by The '67 Sound on Jul 20, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Front loaded contracts actually benefit all the other players on the team. The front loaded contract reduces the cap hit of the star player receiving it, leaving more money for the rest of the players on the club.

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Jul 21, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

But it benefits every other player on every other team (and indirectly the players on the star’s own team).

Go read MC79’s piece that I fanshotted. Because of the way escrow works these retirement deals are effectively taking money from every other player.

by The '67 Sound on Jul 21, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

It would appear that short term, but once you realize that their “guaranteed contracts” are still dependent on escrow payments, the disparity between salary and caphit in the long run detracts from salary.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jul 22, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m interested to know where the data you used to calculate the Ovechkin escrow transfer amount is available. Or just your logic.

by Nirbo on Jul 21, 2010 1:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Go to mc79hockey.com and read his piece on escrow and the Kovy deal.

by The '67 Sound on Jul 21, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I extrapolated off Dirk Hoag’s data. It involves some estimation, and its a little high but i like nice round numbers.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 21, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

As I posted yesterday, this is how much in escrow Kovalchuk would cost each individual player: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2010/7/21/1579686/so-who-saw-that-coming#42558465

So for Ovechkin in 2012-13 where he’ll make $9M, he would have lost $28,000 as a direct result of Kovalchuk’s 17 year contract.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jul 22, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, i assumed he was still making 10. My bad.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 22, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good Fanpost

Even if you are a filthy Sabres fan.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jul 28, 2010 1:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Thank you. It turned out fairly well considering it started out as a rage-post. Plus, checking the stats of all these players was kinda fun. :)

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 29, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Your best source for quality Toronto Maple Leafs news, rumours, analysis, stats and scores from the fan perspective.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

N907005365_1934770_7971_small
PPP Salary cap Challenge - Paper bag Leaf fan
Lifeasaleaffan_small
(Old) Marlies Game Photos
Newman_small
PPP Salary cap Challenge - samspade
Small
PPP Salary Cap Challenge - DaSim85
Globeatar_small
How Much Should You Spend On A Top 4 D?
Phaneufkessel_small
TOI-weighted NHL Team Ages
48839cd14228986f0ad0d2e405f1_small
Casting Call
Petering_small
PPP Salary Cap Challenge - Self Destructive Zones
Globeatar_small
The Fancystats Exchange, Part 1
Or-wallpaper-1680x1050__1__small
PPP Salary Cap Challenge-BCapp #2

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

StatCounter

wordpress visitor


Chief Blogging Officers

Calvin_small PPP

Aen1_small Chemmy

PPP's Girlfriends

Don_t_panic_small SkinnyFish

Picture_1_small JP Nikota

Fg_small birky

Christian-hanson-wrecks-brian-o_1__small Bower Power