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Dion Phaneuf's Shooting

So earlier today I was surfing through some of the fan-posts, and struck upon the one regarding Phil Kessel's production expectations for next year.  The summary basically concluded he'll produce goals, and all will be fine... go Phil.  It was a decent piece of work, but it got me thinking about other players of import and their production levels.

Most obviously the player requiring an offensive rebound if the Leafs are to be successful next year is Dion Phaneuf.  So I thought about it and considered what the main complaints I've heard about Phaneuf are over the years, and did some exploring to figure out how many of those complaints are based in fact or just perception.

Star-divide

So first off, the idea that Dion misses the net a lot or gets his shots blocked a lot are both accurate... BUT - the thing is, he takes so many effing shots that he misses and gets blocked way more times than most players. I explored his stats from last season using a combination of the NHL shots on net and missed shot totals, and his blocked shot against totals from Gabe Desjardins' BehindTheNet.ca.  Phaneuf hits the net with roughly 50% of his shot attempts. That includes the shots he tries that are blocked or miss the net.

Oddly, He and Ian White are almost IDENTICAL in that regard last season, hitting the net with 49.02% for Phaneuf, and 49.01% for White. The fact that Phaneuf attempted to shoot 103 more times than White is largely why his shots were blocked or missed more often. The ratio of his shots that make it through is virtually identical.  Of the 202 D men that attempted at least 80 shots in the NHL last year, Phaneuf ranked 107th in terms of the ratio of his shots that actually find the net. He’s right in the middle in terms of his shots making it on net, and thus he’s not far worse at it than the average NHL D man.

Now… because he attempted the most shots in the league, the fact that he had more shots blocked than anyone in the NHL sort of stands out, and the fact that he missed the net more than every D man other than Shea Weber also makes people think he’s innaccurate.  Unfortunately this is just a matter of scale and has little to do with his actual ability to hit the net. The NHL average of getting shots on target is 49.63% and 1 Standard Deviation is 6.37%. That means 63% of NHL D men hit the net within a range of 43% of the time and 56% of the time. To be truly bad, he’d have to be hitting the net less than 43% of the time… to be below replacement level, he’d have to be incapable of hitting the net more often than that. There ARE D men in that range.

For instance, if Calgary fans are upset at a D man for missing the net, they might want to look at Robyn Regher, who only hits the net with 39.59% of his attempts. Jaroslav Spacek’s shooting is alarmingly off target for an offensive blue liner, as he only hits the goal with 42.49% of his attempts.

The worst Leaf blue liner is Luke Schenn, who only shoots on net 42.98% of the time. Other bad players from this perspective (who probably shouldn’t shoot a lot) include Matt Hunwick in Boston (42.86% on net), Victor Hedman on the Lightning (43.69% on net), Michael Del Zotto of the Rangers (43.78%), Brett Lebda (44.53%), Andy Greene (45.03%), Mathieu Schneider (45.12%), Wade Redden (45.21%), Tyler Myers (45.22%), Kevin Bieksa (45.45%), Jack Johnson (45.77%)… Those guys are falling to the low end of things, and probably should be shooting LESS, and passing more.

Ironically, some of the best passing D men in the NHL are accurate shooters (probably because they pick their spots)… for instance Kaberle’s shot makes it to the net a wonderful 59.62% of the time. In fact in recent years, the Leafs have had 3 of the top 7 D men for accuracy from last year in Kaberle, along with former Leafs Pavel Kubina (61.15%) and Anton Stralman (60.50%). Obviously hitting the net isn’t as important to Burke as hitting the opposition though.

Secondly - has Phaneuf's shooting or play on the PP changed drastically over time?  For that I again looked at his shot numbers, and his partners on the PP over the past few years.  In his rookie year, the 2005-06 season, Phaneuf scored 16 power play goals, and he fired 242 shots on goal, missing the net 128 times.  That ratio of 65% of his shots that aren't blocked actually making it to the net is pretty standard for his career, so he hasn't suddenly become less accurate.  In comparison to this past season he again hit the net with 65% of the shots he took that weren't blocked, and he hit the net 225 times.  Not a huge dip, and probably not enough to explain the fact that his PP goal total dropped from 16 to 5 this past season, and 4 the year before that.

So what explains it?  Likely luck.  Dion's career shooting percentage is 6.2%.  That's not bad for a blue liner, and he does take a hell of a lot of shots.  He's had a career high of 8.3% and a career low of 4.0%, so he's likely going to be somewhere in between this coming season.  He's averaged 247 shots in his career, so anticipating that he'll get around 250, and he'll score on roughly 6% of them isn't a huge leap in logic.  That puts him at 15 goals for this coming season.


The other factors to consider are the player's he's lined up with.  Back when Phaneuf was scoring a lot on the PP, he was being set up by the likes of Alex Tanguay, Jarome Iginla, Kristian Huselius, Daymond Langkow, and Roman Hamrlik.  In 2005-06 Iginla had 17 PPG and 14 PPA, while Langkow had 11PPG, and 18PPA, and Huselius had 6 PPG, and 18 PPA.  Even Andrew Ference had 2 PPG and 17 PPA, while Hamrlik only had 1 PPG, and 15 PPA.  Phaneuf scored 16 PPG, and had another 17 PPA.  The Flames power play was fairly average that season, but Phaneuf's goal totals weren't.  It's rare that a defender accounts for almost 20% of a team's power play output in one year.  The only player to score more than Phaneuf on the Flame's PP was Iginla.  Most of their forwards were passers.

Consider that even in Bryan McCabe's best season on the PP (that same 2005-06 season) he never recorded over 13 PPG, and he never accounted for more than 12% of the Leafs power play goal production.  For a top flight power play, the Leafs also boasted production from Tucker (18), Sundin (16), and Jeff O'neill (14) in that same season, and they produced 20 more goals on the power play than Calgary did.

If the Leafs want a truly deadly PP this coming season, they need more production out of more players.  Phaneuf can probably chip in 8 or 9 goals on the PP reasonably, but they need the likes of Kessel, Bozak, Versteeg, Kulemin, and Grabovski to chip in some goals.  Unfortunately, Versteeg has never topped 6 PP goals, Kessel's never topped 8, and Bozak, Grabovski, and Kulemin are all sitting at 6 or less goals on the PP in a single season. 

The way the Leafs PP is currently structured, Leaf fans really need to hope that the team discovers a body to plant in front of the net - Hi there Colby Armstrong? What's that, you've produced on the PP before?

Yep... Armstrong actually scored 7 PP goals in 47 games as a rookie with the Penguins... playing alongside Sidney Crosby in only 153:47 of PP ice time.  That translates to a PP goal every 21:58 in PP ice time... or roughly every 5 games or so.  If he maintained that level of production for a full year with the Leafs (unlikely but hey were in dreaming mode here), he would be capable of scoring around 16 power play goals for the Blue and White.  That might take some of the heat off of Phaneuf and Kessel and crew... and it might be why the Leafs signed him to the contract they did.

Offensively, Phaneuf's game really hasn't changed much since he came into the NHL.  He's probably calmed down a bit defensively, but he still shoots the puck a hell of a lot, and hits the net around half of the time.  He'll probably get 10 to 15 goals, and score 35 to 45 points depending on how the players around him play.  If there's someone to take the focus off of him, he'll be fine.  If he's a one man army on the point, good luck pushing the puck through shot blocking defenders.

Poll
Which of the following post-trade to Toronto seasons will Phaneuf's 2010-11 year match most closely?
Dave Ellet's 1st full year in Toronto - 18 G, 51 P
407 votes
Bryan McCabe's 1st year as a Leaf - 5 G, 29 P
69 votes
Rob Ramage's 1st Leaf season - 8 G, 41 P
195 votes
Alex Karpovtsev's only full year in Toronto - 3 G, 17 P
12 votes
Robert Svehla's pre-retirement vacation in T.O. - 7 G, 45 P
96 votes
Dmitri "blood clot" Yushkevich's 1st year in blue - 1 G, 11 P
24 votes
Red "I'll try it at Centre" Kelly - 20 G, 70 P
81 votes

884 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 49 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I think something like 10-15 goals and 20-25 assists.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Jul 22, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions  

me too

unfortunately, none of the poll options seem to fit this.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jul 22, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wanted to vote for Ramage and Ellet and call it right in the middle. I think 18 goals is a pipedream, but over 10 is totally doable. Really it all hinges on what happens to Kaberle. If he goes, then Phaneuf’s role on the PP greatly increases and his point total will surely go up.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jul 22, 2010 10:10 AM EDT reply actions  

I think his passing is under-rated

He posted 29+ assists 4 times in his 5 year career… last year was his first with less than that… and that was largely due to the Leafs atrocious PP at the end of the year… and how bad Calgary played to start the season.

He produced 8 assists in only 26 leaf games, which pro-rates to only 25 over a full season… I think he could register 35 if he actually gets some PP production though.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 22, 2010 10:12 AM EDT reply actions  

I think he'll get around 12 goals and 35 assists

for a 47 point season… which to me most closely resembles the Ellet season… or like a higher scoring Robert Svehla.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 22, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Voted Rob Ramage because I think 40 points is reasonable, he’s taking on the captain duties, and I hope he kills people coming across the blueline.

Resident Capologist

by clrkaitken on Jul 22, 2010 10:27 AM EDT reply actions  

I voted Ellett but would take Ramage

Ramage was really good that first year. If he could have been the same player a little longer….

That kind of attitude is Phaneuf-like, I hope.

Leaf, the universe and everything.

by 1967ers on Jul 22, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Some people in the fanpost I mentioned

wanted a break down on particular shot types. Courtesy of BehindTheNet.ca Phaneuf took 103 slappers last year at even strength, and missed the net with 41 (60.2% accuracy). He fired 23 snap shots, and missed with 7 (69.5% accuracy), and lastly he took 60 wrist shots, and hit the net with 42 of them (70% accuracy). Blocked shots aren’t available in a break down like that… but we can assume that the majority of his blocked shots came off of slap shots.

Basically in the end when you look at specific shot type he fired 186 shots of all types that weren’t blocked at even strength last season, and he hit the net with 120, for 64.5% accuracy. That’s right around NHL average for a D man, and I don’t think it’s because he shoots an abnormally high percentage of slap shots that people have the perception they do.

He’s as accurate as roughly 50% of the NHL’s blue liners, and less accurate than about 50%… he’s right smack dab in the middle, which considering how many shots he takes is a pretty repeatable experiment. He isn’t bad from an accuracy perspective, but he isn’t particularly great either. He’s average.

The obvious skills Phaneuf has in this regard are thus two fold. First, he excels at getting his shot off. He fires the puck more than any defender in the NHL, and there is something to be said for that. Those that shoot the most tend to score the most. Secondly, he has a heavy shot. His shooting percentage on the shots he DOES get on net, is above the average for NHL blue liners by a fairly wide margin. If average is around 3%, his 6.2% career shooting percentage should be something we’re happy with.

Last season it was an atrocious (for him) 2.3% in Toronto, but unfortunately that’s well within the possible variance of shooting percentages. He had a bad finish to the year. If he climbs back up towards his career average, then it’s no big deal… in Calgary he had a 7.2% shooting percentage, which is WELL above the NHL average… he’ll be fine.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 22, 2010 10:40 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I have to laugh at Jaroslav Spacek being mentioned, I think Sabres announcer Rick Jeanneret got really tired of saying ‘Spacek SHOT wide of the net’. Still liked having him around for the old-school hip checks and the awesome accent.

by TheTick on Jul 22, 2010 10:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Something to take into consideration though is the current trend of purposely shooting wide from the point to get odd angle tips or rebounds off the back wall. Probably factors in a bit, but not too substantially.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jul 22, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Looking at the players on the list

I would have to say that’s not a substantial impact or a regular practice amongst top shooters in the NHL.

Nobody is doing that over 50 times a season, which to me means it’s not going to significantly alter anything.

If they ARE doing it 50 times a season, the coaches probably don’t want them doing it that often, so it stops.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 22, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

also

when you factor in how many shots are blocked, or attempted to be blocked, I sincerely doubt that most D men are taking the time to line up that board-shot when they’ve got so many other factors to worry about.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 22, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I voted for the Svehla stat line because I think 45 points will be the ballpark. How those points are compiled (ie – # of goals vs # of assists) is the question.

I have nothing interesting to say.

by blurr1974 on Jul 22, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Great post and research on this

I can see him having a Dave Ellett-like season as long as he’s lined up with talented forwards on the power play, and we won’t know who most of them are until the end of September so I’m hoping Kadri makes the team and we get another top-six forward between now and camp.

by RJinSoCal on Jul 22, 2010 11:23 AM EDT reply actions  

minimum 35 pts, but hopefully more like 45-50.

if the leafs are going to have any shot at being a contender over the next several years, it’s essential that phaneuf at some point regain the form of his first couple of seasons.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jul 22, 2010 11:28 AM EDT reply actions  

yep

I’m in the camp that thinks Phaneuf is certainly overpaid and that’s probably never going to change

Any player, especially a Dman, making north of $5M a season has to be generating offense in some capacity. Phaneuf’s going to have to as well in order to move from “wildly overpaid” to “slightly overpaid”

I dont care what he’s doing in terms of penalty killing, hitting and leadership. If he doesn’t crack 40 points we’re screwed. We need Bryan McCabe at his peak offense out of him while hopefully not being a sinkhole in his own zone.

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Jul 22, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who are his expected linemates?

Last year, he played even-strength with Beauchemin for 55% of his shifts, Beauch again on the PK for 6% of his shifts, and Kaberle on the PP for 10% of his shifts (plus even-strength for another 9%).

He also saw some even-strength time with Gunnarsson (6%) and Schenn (4%).

What I’m thinking, is that with Komisarek as a partner, Dion would be free to pinch more, or at least take a step forward before unleashing the cannon.

Anyone know what Wilson’s plans are?

by Spezzal Teams Playa on Jul 22, 2010 12:38 PM EDT reply actions  

I think a lot of people are projecting Phaneuf-Komisarek as the top D pairing. Komisarek being a fairly stay at home defenseman and Phaneuf liking to get into the offence a fair amount, they compliment eachother fairly well.

Wham Wham! Kabam Kabam! A Double Kabam! And It's A Double Dion!

by realcanadianbacon on Jul 22, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

that’s a terrifying blue line to come across as a forward, Komi funnels em while Dion runs buck wild on anyone who gets cute

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Jul 22, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

love it

"the usefulness of a cup, is in it's emptiness"

by Maniel Darois on Jul 22, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, not going to happen. Discussed this already, but he’s a RD. He’ll be paired with Beauch more than anyone, and Kabs if he’s still a Leaf, on the PP.

Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.

by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 26, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

at this point..

your guess is as good as mine, but I did notice the same “loose leash” on Dion when he was paired with Luke last year, and was hoping for more. With Komi back in the mix, either or would be good.

"the usefulness of a cup, is in it's emptiness"

by Maniel Darois on Jul 22, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say Wilson's options are even better than in Vancouver

He can’t go wrong. Not like when he was forced to find space for scrubs like Jack Johnson and Tim Gleason ;-)

by Spezzal Teams Playa on Jul 23, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

My best guess puts him at 14G and 31 A

BS

by MapleLeafMole on Jul 22, 2010 1:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Also, good read and research, and the Colby Armstrong part got me a little excited

BS

by MapleLeafMole on Jul 22, 2010 1:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Yushkevich ~ * swoon * ~ ~ * sigh * ~

I always have to comment when he’s mentioned.

Dion’ll score more though. I’m guessing ~45 points

by LeafFanInVan on Jul 22, 2010 2:23 PM EDT reply actions  

The Leafs have already taken a good deal of pressure off Dion, by adding Versteeg to the powerplay we now have 3 potent weapons in Phaneuf Kessel and the aforementioned Steeger, having to focus on all three will hopefully give opposing penalty killers a migraine, add in either of Bozak or Kadri or potentially Armstrong or Mueller as big net presence and you have a fairly good looking powerplay, a great deal of the pressure is likely to fall on Phaneuf d partner, if its Gunnarsson like I kind of hope, then you have a huge potential for a good powerplay, as I see so many of Kaberle’s good qualities in Gunnarsson I’m sometimes surprised when he hits somebody.

Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Yes I find myself VERY amusing

by antrofan on Jul 22, 2010 4:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I realize the options aren't evenly spaced...

but I find it odd that nearly 50% of the voters think 18 goals is reasonable while less than 10% think two more than that is reasonable.

We’re a very particular bunch.

If my nose was full of nickels I would blow it all on you.

by Kenjamin on Jul 22, 2010 4:39 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah…it’s just the 70 point part for me. And there isn’t another option for 10+ goals.

BS

by MapleLeafMole on Jul 22, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree

I ball park around 12-15 goals and around 30 assists.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 22, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's the combination of goal scoring

with 50ish points. 70 seems like a huge stretch, so Red seems like a mismatch.

That’s why Svehla is so low… 47 points isn’t far off, but 7 goals seems low to people.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 22, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

Hey Steve, Kuklas’ linked to this as a “guess the player” type of thing.
Pretty interesting guesses in there.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jul 22, 2010 6:22 PM EDT reply actions  

The funniest thing to me is what people are guessing

Is “Sammy” supposed to be Mikael Samuelsson? who the hell do Detroit fans hate for not hitting the net?

Zetterberg is the next guess? I just find that ridiculous on their part.

Mikael Samuelsson hit the net 219 times last year, he missed the net 77 times, and he had his shot blocked 67 times. That’s a percentage of 60.3% on target… how the hell can that bother them?

In Detroit the year before he fired 257 on goal, had 61 blocked, and missed the net 76 times so he hit the net with 65.2% of his shots… apparently Detroit fans are insane and think players should hit the net with every single shot taken. I’d say idiots, but that might offend some people.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 22, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

I’d be willing to go with Detroit fans being insane.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Jul 22, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

The part I wonder about is...

now that they’ve been spoiled with 20 or so years of winning… what happens if the team goes through a losing cycle? Detroit doesn’t have much money as a city… and they’re used to winning… if the team suddenly sucks do they ignore the team out of disgust?

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 22, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of you guys should go over there and guess that it’s someone on the Leafs because no Wings’ player could ever lead the league in shots taken.

Or even simply state that ‘Sammy’ has always been among the most accurate shot-attempters in the league, without using the facts to dispell their apparent idea of the guy.

by Spezzal Teams Playa on Jul 23, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair

he’s sort of like Jonas Hoglund or Jason Blake… he fires a crapload of shots, but he doesn’t score on a lot of them. That’s the part they probably found annoying.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 23, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or maybe their reference point for a normal defender is Lidstrom?

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. I think I need a drink now.

by Wan Ihite on Jul 23, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice to see

67% of Leafs fans agree that Phaneuf will top 8 goals and 41 points… god we might be in for a huge disappointment.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 22, 2010 8:59 PM EDT reply actions  

ssshhhh

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Jul 22, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

67%!!!!!

that sounds like a sign to me…

god we might be in for a huge disappointment awesome playoff run

fixed.

by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 22, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Phaneuf totals LESS than 45 pts

I will eat my shoe and post the video on youtube

by Johnny Bower's Pokecheck on Jul 22, 2010 11:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Someone bookmark this.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. I think I need a drink now.

by Wan Ihite on Jul 23, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Steve, I’m not too sure about your numbers. If I’m following you, you would show him at 225 SOG/234 others to achieve 49.02%, right? I used Vic Ferrari’s timeonice.com to check rather than Gabe’s site. Dion’s CGY EV totals were 80 SOG, 40 missed, 70 blocked. In Toronto, his numbers were 63 SOG at EV, 29 missed, 45 blocked. That leaves his EV totals at 143 SOG, 69 missed, 115 blocked, or 143 SOG/184 others.
CGY EV totals
TOR EV totals

To reach your totals, he would have needed to have 82 SOG/50 missed/blocked on special teams.

The tricky part is getting his special teams totals, I don’t have them all, but by the process of elimination, I noticed that he missed the net a total of 65 times in Calgary, so 65 misses – 40 EV misses equals 25 extra missed shots. In Toronto, he missed the net 58 times, and as I noted, he missed 29 times at EV. That leaves 29 other misses.

So, in review, at EV: 143/184

Special teams: 82SOG/54 (25+29) misses plus an unknown number of special teams blocks against. Blocks against aren’t split off as nicely by the league, but that’s already 225 total SOG versus a minimum of 238 missed/blocked (184+54), or higher than your totals. If he had the same blocked/missed ratio on special teams as at EV of 1.6 blocks/misses, that would imply an extra 86 blocked shots unaccounted for. That would give totals of 225/324, or 40.1%. Even if the missed/blocked ratio was 1/1 on special teams, that would leave him at 225/292, or around 43.5%. Whatever that ratio is, I’m fairly certain that the total is more than -4 blocked.

Your points about his SH%, especially in his T.O. stint, are valid enough. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he had a perfectly nice offensive year, say 15 goals and 45-50 points. I know a lot of Flames’ fans would take joy in him failing, but I wouldn’t . He’s a good player with an iffy contract. That stuff happens.

by Robert Cleave on Jul 23, 2010 12:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Ok

All of the stats listed on Gabe’s site are 5-on-5… so the 111 I’m grabbing from his site would be blocked shots against at ES. I didn’t think about that at the time I was doing it… which makes the study relatively invalid to some extent.

That being said – I was using the same statistics for every defender in the NHL when doing the comparison… so I was at least comparing apples to apples in that regard, so the overall gist of the message remains true…

Obviously if you include special teams totals the blocked shots numbers likely increase, and his overall percentages would drop because those are not being accounted for, thus lowering the on target percentage for every D man that plays significant point minutes as a shooter on the PP. That would reduce his totals for sure.

It would also have the same effect on all the comparable players in the NHL, though as a matter of scale, I’d assume it lies somewhere between the 1.6/1 and 1/1 ratios you suggested for most PP point shooters on average. Given his propensity to fire away, I’d assume your result of 43.5% is not inaccurate.

In the end I guess it will minimize the distinction between a player like Phaneuf and a player like Schenn or Regehr, if you’re including the missed shots on special teams, but not the blocked shots, you’re at least factoring in the distinction between a PP regular vs. a non-PP player to some extent… but the ES numbers show them to be not that dissimilar.

I’d have to rip the numbers for every NHL defender from Vic’s site to redo the analysis, and I haven’t quite got the time to do so right now, but I do appreciate the effort on your part. Thanks for the heads up.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jul 23, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

No worries, Steve. I wasn’t really trying to make more work for you ;-)

by Robert Cleave on Jul 23, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Keep in mind, one of the flames’ set plays was their point men missed the net with their shot intentionally. And either the forward would tip it in from beside the net or off the rebound on the boards. It worked really well at the start of the season until teams started to counter it. So that may explain Phaneuf’s shooting percent.

by Leajjes on Jul 24, 2010 5:12 PM EDT reply actions  

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How to Value Mikhail Grabovski
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Mental Health and Kevin Bieksa
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Chief Blogging Officers

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PPP's Girlfriends

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