Monday Already?
by SkinnyFish on Jul 26, 2010 7:00 AM EDT
in From The Branches
Email
PrintI had a fun but tiring weekend of paintball in rural Pennsylvania. Yes I went to a Wal-Mart while I was there, and yes the shoppers there looked like they were straight out of People of Wal-Mart. It was terrifying. So glad to be back in New England where there is not a fanny pack nor camouflaged tank top over cut-off denim shorts to be seen.
Here be your links:
News is slower than, The time it takes Don Cherry to apologize for an offhand remark about Europeans
Head on over to Fear the Fin and add your own.
Leafs Fans: Comfort in numbers
VLM reminding us that we don't have to go through the bad times alone.
This is what it looks like to get Belak'ed
Vintage Leafs with some photo goodness for you to enjoy.
Yakov Mironov says it's time for Burke to put down the pole and get working.
LeafsHQ talks about the roles Brown and Orr are to play this season.
Now that they're gone: Matt Stajan
MLHS is taking a look at former Leafs
The league's best even strength performers
No current Leafs make the cut, but big Nik Antropov did.
Tampa Bay signs Not Beauchemin to a 1-year deal
Hey Koooooooool-Aiddddddddddddddddd!!!!!!1
OH YEAH! Toronto Mike with the heads up that the Kool-Aid Man turns 35 this year. (Not Picture: Mark Henry)
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I wonder...
…Now that Burke is back, whenever he finally calls a press conference to announce a trade, will he burst through the curtain and yell:
Oh Yeah! This will quench your thrist, Leaf Fans!
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 26, 2010 7:31 AM EDT reply actions
slower than
Toskala’s reaction time.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 8:47 AM EDT reply actions
Brayden Irwin
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 26, 2010 8:49 AM EDT reply actions
slower than
… Mats Sundin decision-making.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
trying to explain inception to Darryl Sutter.
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Jul 26, 2010 8:55 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
reply fail
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 26, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Still, where did the lighter fluid come from!?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
So glad to be back in New England where there is not a fanny pack nor camouflaged tank top over cut-off denim shorts to be seen.
Not in MY section of New England. This crap is everywhere.
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
Upstate Vermont and New Hampshire don’t count. My statement is invalid for areas of New England that do not lie between the Boston, Hartford, Fairfield County triangle.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
the bah mu dah trah ahngle
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah-may-lyah Eah-Haad was ah wicked pahlit
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 26, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
also, link!
I can’t figure out who this guy is. Any help is appreciated.
http://wwold.blogspot.com/2010/07/open-letter-to-random-leaf-on-maple.html
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
Sorry LD, but that’s Luke Schenn alright.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
It can’t be, It doesn’t look like him at all
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
tis, he has clark kent hair going on though
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
For everyone’s sake, I hope that’s just a shadow.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
yeah, the lighting gives him creepy zombie eyes too
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe that’s a disguise that Luke uses so he doesn’t get mobbed at the mall. Emo hair + soul patch on Schenn is like adding glasses and a slouch to Superman.
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
But then he’d be mobbed by fans of Garth Brooks’ “Chris Gaines” phase.
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
ahhh
and he is a rather big Garth Brooks fan…
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
So
He’s disguising himself like his hero would. Change hair. Add Soul patch.
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
not to worry
I think it’s just residue left over from the last time he annihilated someone with a hipcheck.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
Thelonius Monk had a soul patch. John Coltrane had a soul patch. A kid from Treebush, Saskatchewan may have something growing on the bottom of his lip but calling it a soul patch is as oxymoronic as the Utah Jazz. Think of soul and the first images that come into your head are not a 4H Club turnip growing contest or a hootenanny.
I don’t know what one o’ them things is called in the prairies, but up here they’re known as testicle-ticklers. Then again we don’t have the civility or good manners of the average prairie boy.
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jul 26, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And you know what else?
Who are these guys walking around with “Clark Kent” haircuts? I’ll bet most of them couldn’t leap a tall building in a double or even triple bound, never mind a single one. I’m with you. Let’s stamp out hairstyle verbiage inaccuracy for good!
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I highly doubt the Beiber will become 6’2" tall and weigh 215lbs.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
that’d be a big woman
/overused joke
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
hrrmmm
I’m liking the Schenn disguise theory more and more
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
it has comedic blogging potential, it does
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe it’s his evil twin, Schuke Lenn.
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
by loser domi on Jul 26, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the Schennly boys and the case of the evil twin
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have a raging clue.
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
by loser domi on Jul 26, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No his evil twin has a goatee. Well known fact.
I belive that this is his tortured emo triplet Lecke Schun, who will crush you into the boards with a devastating hit, and then right poetry torturing himself about the ligament you stretched.
how come he has a different last name…?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Luke Schenn, P.I. in "The Case of the Holey Goalie"
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
what is a Justin Bieber?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel like I’m an old man because there are pop fads exploding that I don’t know about.
Two years ago in Atlantis our bellboy was taking us to our room and he asked if my wife and I were there to see the Jonas Brothers.
“Who?”
“De yonas brothers”
“I don’t know who they are.”
“Me neder. Taught you’d know.”
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
It shows how popular the Jonas Brothers truly are if they’re getting gigs in Atlantis.
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jul 26, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
We had no idea when we booked. The nice thing was we were staying on the adults only side of the resort so we were insulated from the screaming Jonas fans.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
um Chemmy, Atlantis is a mythical lost continent .(although apparently with a thriving tourism industry)
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jul 26, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
justin bieber = another nail n coffin for progress
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 26, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
you can apply that to any pop singer
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
by LeafFan1989 on Jul 26, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t he the guy that sings that annoying Leafs song before games on Leafs TV?
@LakerCaptain
by Another Good Kingston Boy on Jul 26, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I eagerly anticipate Burke doing diddly squat with this roster for the rest of the off season.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 9:55 AM EDT reply actions
i just want one more move….ok 2
sign hanson for his 110% and that other thing we never talk about
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point. What’s the deal with Hanson?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
burke is probably waiting to see how the rest of the roster shakes out (IE what return he may or may not get back from trading a certain defenseman) before locking Hanson up to 2-3 years
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
it’s out there, I know
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
The ACC did well on the ESPN stadium food concession report.
But so did Nassau Colosseum.
And don’t eat at hockey games in Washington.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 10:03 AM EDT reply actions
I can vouch for the delicious nachos at the Nassau Colosseum. And when you’ve finished, the boxes they come in make excellent hats.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Nassau’s nice actually. They have some interesting dining options and their beer selection is good.
Their building is old but they’re trying really really hard on Long Island. Go take a road trip there to watch the Bruins some time.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
seats on the glass, under 50 bucks!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, fine.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
hahaha
Mice droppings, a critical violation in Washington, were found at at least 10 vendors.
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
in some countries, that’d cost ya extra
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s a reason why I always sneak in Subway for every Verizon Center game…
Joe Finley to the Russians: "Como estas?"
by Steck It Out on Jul 26, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
so I’ve been thinking, I’ve been blocked by Damien Cox on twitter, does that mean I’ve been Coxblocked?
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 10:16 AM EDT reply actions
Yes that was the meme after we all got blocked by him months ago.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I know
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
.
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
So, is anyone else getting increasingly despondent over Mike Komisarek’s relentlessly chipper Twitter account?
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Jul 26, 2010 10:19 AM EDT reply actions
He’s adorable like a puppy.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
It just depresses me to think that our $4M wrecking ball is going into the corners against power forwards with Stuart Smalley quotes running through his head.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Jul 26, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is what popped into my head
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Why is he crying?
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
Memories of canoeing with kids brings tears to his eyes.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
he’s channeling his feelings into rage on his enemies
like the water boy
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Double Rainbow!
It’s soo beautiful! (sobs!)
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Way to cheerful for the guy on our team who is supposed to be a cold blooded killer. I’m hoping he’s like Sylvester Stallone’s character in Over the Top. A warm hearted and kind souled family man, but when he turns his hat backwards he becomes a ruthless, unstoppable force that destroys everything in his wake.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
best analogy of all time
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not as bad as Colton Orr’s moonlighting job as a kid’s birthday party clown. His balloon animals all look like Carkner lying on the ice.
@LakerCaptain
by Another Good Kingston Boy on Jul 26, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
no
I love him.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Remember discussions past where some of said that goals should weigh more heavily than assists?
Well the guys over at Pensburgh think so too and have come up with an equation for equality: http://www.pensburgh.com/2010/7/23/1584729/goals-assists-and-equality#storyjump
1.73 assists for every 1 goal.
Let the debating commence.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
they like Leafs fans over there.
I don’t know what you guys did, but they said some PPPers went over there for open threads during the playoffs. Suddenly Leaf fans are cool.
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
Penguins played the Habs; the dirty dirty Habs. So we cheered for the Pens.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Plus, we’re really funny.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
and handsom
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
handsome, even
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude’s a lil short on the handsom front.
by not norm ullman on Jul 26, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m more striking than Handsome
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
In terms of hating the Habs,
We will often bandwagon to whoever is playing them.
Enemy of my enemy and all that.
I think many fellow PPPers got cred at Japers Rink and Broad Street Hockey too.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 26, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
We’ve got so much e-cred our collapse could crash the global blogging market.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Pff! Collapse!?
PPP is too big to fail!
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
the kitten ranch is the true bread winner
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Since my post about our cyborg kittens, we’ve received tons of new orders from countries like the Sudan, Malaysia, North Korea, Iran, and Syria. Business is booming! (literally)
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
the K-100 infiltrators are great, but I think when the K-1000’s start rolling off the line you guys will get a major profit spike
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
R&D has got some promising data back on their K2000 units. Although still in the development stage, the “liquid metal” (for lack of a better term) has overcome it’s initial molecular instability issues and could be ready for mass production in a few months.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
The addition of the catmium alloy is what helped to stabilize the units.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
and the furmium makes them fluffy stabilized units
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jul 26, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I do it the bandwagon thing too. I just didn’t think that made us cool.
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
Not in and of itself, we did it with style.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh no, we weren’t bandwagoning at all. Most of us were cheering for the meteor.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I wasn’t bandwagoing, but I wasn’t always cheering for the meteor either.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I call it “cheering against”
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
As some others there have commented, scarcity definitely isn’t the way to measure the ratio, otherwise empty net goals would be worth a lot more.
Spitballing, I’d rather just make the secondary assist be worth a half point instead. In reality, the system is the system, and as long as it’s measured consistently, it’s closer rather than farther away from being accurate.
Prefers pugnacity to truculence.
Like I said over there,
Every goal is different, sometimes the secondary assist-er does more than the goal scorer or the first assist-er.
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
That argument can extend to someone who makes a big check that opens up the ice for someone to sweep in and score. That’s what plus/minus attempts to cover.
Prefers pugnacity to truculence.
Or a goalie screen where the guy doesn’t touch the puck. Directly led to the goal but gets no points.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 26, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m just curious why there’s a problem with cut-off denim shorts…
those are the onl kind of shorts i own.
by gnarlybattleship on Jul 26, 2010 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
Are you a never-nude?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
If you wear cut-off denim shorts.....
you might be a red neck.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
DAMNIT
beat me to it
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
i’ve been doing the denim short thing for years, but it seems to me that within the past year or so it’s become more of a hipster fad. they’re stealing the red neck’s thunder.
by gnarlybattleship on Jul 26, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Truth. In Boston a month back, I saw lots of skinny hipsters in tight cut-off demin shorts.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Yea, but are they cut-offs, the one’s I’ve seen aren’t all frayed and what-not.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Just FYI
T
he Vancouver Canucks have avoided arbitration with forward Mason Raymond, signing the 24-year old to a two-year, $5.1 million contract prior to his hearing.
He is set to earn $2.5 million in the first year of the contract and $2.6 in the second year. He earned just $760,000 last season.
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 11:25 AM EDT reply actions
Worst block quote execution ever.
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Looks like MacArthur scared them.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Not a bad signing for Raymond though
I don’t think. In 2 years is he RFA again or UFA?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
He’ll be 26, with about 5 seasons of NHL experience at the end of that contract…RFA I think
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 26, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
This means the next domino to fall is Blake Wheeler, unless there’s another scheduled today. Oh my.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Big Money Big Money!
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
No whammy no whammy!
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
EIGHTY THOUSAND DOLLARS
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to sign him for that much.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
ARRIGHT!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It isn't that big
for a 3rd year player that just put up 25 goals and 53 points.
40% discount for RFA’s would put his UFA deal at slightly over $4 million… that’d be your Jason Blake special right there.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Woops
this was in ref to Raymond.
I’d say it makes sense that Wheeler ends up with a slightly reduced deal in comparison to Raymond. Probably around $2.3-$2.5 mill per year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
1.2 million is a big swing.
I’d say he makes between 1m and 5m next year with an NHL team.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
$1.2 mill?
Where did the $1.2 mill swing thing come from?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I swear that second 2 was a three just a minute ago.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
never was.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Apparently he’s going to Arbitration. The last player to take the Bruins to arbitration went UFA, signed in Carolina, and was literally murdered by the Maple Leafs the next year.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
can’t find who this is?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Dave Tanabe
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Tanabe
was a shame… sad to see how he declined so quickly in a new environment.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you
David Tanabe?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Tanabe played for Carolina in 99-2003 as well
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Mentally? 5.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
cradle robber
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Not bad
I thought he might have gotten 1-year, $2.8-$3M in arb.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 26, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
given that MacArthur got $2.4, I was thinking $3+ for Raymond.
This is a good deal.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
bodes well for Boston with Wheeler
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems like good value at first glance
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 26, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I may have skipped past this
but what are people’s thoughts on the whole NHLPA filing for arbitration with Kovalchuk’s case yesterday?
Will it hold up the Kaberle deal?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
At this point I don’t see how the two are related
Kovalchuk is going to end up in LA or New Jersey. Jersey doesn’t have the cap space to add Kovalchuk and Kaberle, and LA doesn’t have a need for Kaberle. So if anyone is going to make a trade partner for Kaberle, it seems to me that it should be happening independent of the Kovalchuk saga.
Basically, if someone like Columbus or Dallas or Buffalo is going to try and trade for him, I don’t see why Toronto or any of those teams need to wait and see what happens in Jersey.
Resident Capologist
I don’t think Burke is going to get what he wants for Kaberle. I’m really concerned that he’ll still be on the team come October.
but no pop
I will not be shocked if that is the case
It wouldn’t kill the Leafs chances either way. I’ve been doing all of my estimations with Kaberle on the team going forward.
If he drops out, then things are different, but with him they likely still make the playoffs this year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
So long as he puts up similar numbers.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually
I reduced them a tad… accounting for slightly less minutes… we still are on track with him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
This will
all be revealed in my MLA piece.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
At the very least, if Kaberle stays then Finger will absolutely be playing in the AHL this season.
Phaneuf, Beauch, Komi, Kaberle, Schenn, Gunnarsson, Lebda. Finger’s #8 on the depth chart
Resident Capologist
Not necessarily
another trade might happen. They could still deal one of Beauchemin, Schenn, Finger, or Gunnarsson for the right price…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the “right price” for Finger would be something like “Finger and our 2nd for your 7th”. AHL is a much better option for him.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
to a team with an ok amount of cap space and no need for middle pairing defenseman sure
but i still think a team like the islanders who have plenty of cap space and roster space with no plethora of youth coming up to fill the gap (other than De han) he’d be an excellent stop gap for them and they might give up a 4th for him
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
If Burke could get anything more than kick in the groin for him he should have done the deal yesterday.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but the problem with the islanders is they are trying to spend as little money as possible (weird I know) and as long as they have cheap warm bodies to fill the roster spots I don’t see it happening
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Me neither.
And there are better ways to waste $3.5MM than on Finger.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yup, the only way I see it every happening is if the season is about to start, the islanders have a gaping hole on D and are about 3 mill from the cap floor and Burke has a hot line to garth snow
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we’d need Tom Hagen, Al Neri and a dead hooker to be involved.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
We have a trade to announce...
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Jul 26, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
beautiful
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 26, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke is only going to demote Finger if they need the cap space. They carried 8 d most of last season.
but no pop
Exactly.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Finger will likely stick around
particularly in case of injuries (*cough*Komisarek*cough*).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you’re probably right but we’re waaaay into the bonus cushion right now. It would be criminal to take a 2011/12 cap hit (when we might actually be contending) in order to play and pay Finger over our other 7 NHL calibre D-men (not to mention various prospects).
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The two are related in that
If teams (i.e. Jersey) are going to have to move pieces to free up cap space, then more players will be in play for trades… which affects the market for Kaberle.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, I could see the new team wanting to sign Kaberle to a new deal, not saying he’s going to get one of those insane contracts but maybe the team wants to front load it.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Its 11:44am Toronto time (center of universe)… Burke’s had 164 minutes to mull over offers..surely a decision is forthcoming!!!
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 26, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I could see NJD wanting Kabs on the off chance they don’t wind up with Kovy. They have no puck movers.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
Which is why I’ve resigned myself to the horrifying thought that Burke is not going to trade Kaberle, and simply let the asset wither on the vine for some reason.
Kabby’s coming to training camp.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
I heard he was an untouchable.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
really?
he looks like one of the the best young power forwards in the league
why would they trade him?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Stewart?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
dammit
Who’s T.J. Galiardi?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
not Chris Stewart, that’s for sure
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
you got that right
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Up and comer, similar size, and numbers to Kulemin last season. First full season with Colorado last year. Remember him being a “gritty” guy in last year’s playoffs. 22 years old, 2nd round pick in 2007. Shoots left. Could be a top 6 guy on the right team. I’d like him on the Leafs, might not have the scorer’s touch per se, but works had.
Top 6?
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 26, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Solid young C/LW. Had lots of touch in junior with my Hitmen. Would love to see him as a Leaf.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 26, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus the cool last name that’ll fit right in with the Woddbridge demographic in the GTA
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 26, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
True! He’ll have no trouble finding canollis.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 26, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I had no idea who Chris Stewart was. Playing in Toronto is definitely different than playing elsewhere, if we had a sophomore put up 28 goals in 77 games dude would be a household name and have the weight of the world on his shoulders.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Stewart is boss
Had him on my fantasy team. Great pickup.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 26, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah- and imagine the contract he’d get
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 26, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Shudders.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Not only is he a solid PF
but he’s the younger brother of the much more (previously) famous Anthony Stewart, who played on the Nat’l Junior Squad, and was most noted for fighting Nathan Horton in Junior when the two of them had both been drafted by the Panthers.
Last I checked, Anthony wasn’t doing much at the NHL level, and would likely develop into not much more than a 3rd liner with size.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember that guy.
Huh, so many players in the West would dominate if they played in the East.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate to be Plug McPluggerton...
But if I hit 2000 twitter followers by Friday I’m gonna give away a jersey to a random follower. (One that actually talks, preferably about hockey). So yeah, follow me.
And while you follow him...
Vote Valk. Spread the word.
Get a condo named after Garry Valk.
And yes, I follow you.
by Montreal Export on Jul 26, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Mark Henry fat joke! – I miss wrestling.
A Nation of Masochists
1967 - Owning the drought since 2010
Sexual Chocolate? Remember when that old lady was “pregnant” with his baby and she gave birth to a hand? Weirdest wrestling moment ever.
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Mae Young. I also unfortunately remember her trying to show her “puppies”
A Nation of Masochists
1967 - Owning the drought since 2010
uugggghh.
/shudder
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 26, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Rookie Tournament
info from Kevin McGran here.
So… who’s gonna go for us?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 12:04 PM EDT reply actions
he’s no longer FromLondon.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
whered he move to??!?
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 26, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Newmarket.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
JaredFromNewsies?
Tho I guess he can always claim to be FROM london. Like I’m in the states now but say I’m from Tdot.
i wasnt born in london though
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I really want to go see. Neeeed hockeeeeeeeeee
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
If anyone in the London area wants to go let me know. I’ll buy you a ticket in exchange for some writing.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
If Fleet Fox or I are still in London we’d be more than happy to file a report or two.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t realize it was in September. Judging by who’s handing out credentials I’m betting we can get PPP in there with a press pass.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
That’d be worth making the trip to London, I’ll talk to him about it.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant PPP the person. ;)
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Since when does Dave Nonis need a press pass?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jul 26, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, I was trying to finagle my way in.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
ShahfromToronto or whatever his name is goes to school in London.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
So does Phaneuf’s Rock Collection.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, going to be there in September. I’m going to try to go, although I’m not much of a writer so don’t know how useful it’ll be. I’ll share any observations.
by ShahofToronto on Jul 26, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
mirtle: Mike Van Ryn retires to coach in the OHL. Great guy to interview – will see if he makes a good coach
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 12:14 PM EDT reply actions
via con dios, MVR
You were the best salary dump I ever saw.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
Really? You wouldn’t rather still have McCabe?
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 26, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
nope
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
with McCabe, there would be no Dion
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you figure? There’s Dion with Komi and Beauch. How much more was Caber getting paid?
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 26, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Luck MVR
Your ’splodeybones will be missed.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 26, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
@DarrenDreger Aug 1, Toronto will likely start pushing those who have made offers for Kaberle. The message: better the offer, or he stays a Maple Leaf.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 12:31 PM EDT reply actions
works for me.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Sigh
I guess keeping him may be the prudent thing to do.
But it’s not sexy.
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Read: Nothing has really changed but the amount of days till the end of the window
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
meh, sounds like he’s just stoking the bidding war.
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Jul 26, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Read as:
Please for the love of God make a decent offer so I can be rid of Tomas Kaberle.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I read it as
If you guys were thinking the asking price has dropped because it’s approaching the end of the window you’re dead wrong. Give me my Top 6 forward muthafuckers.
But ya, same shit.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 26, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I really enjoy the insight we get from Dave Nonis’ twitter account.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Jul 26, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
ahh nooo
@DarrenDreger NHLPA just filed grievance on Kovalchuk contract rejection.
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 26, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions
can someone remind me of the timeframe on this now?
How long until it’s resolved?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
August 16th probably.
Just long enough to hold the entire NHL hostage while Kaberle’s window closes.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 26, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Teams are definitely taking a wait and see approach, but it if becomes evident that this won’t over until September the teams interested in Kabby will move on him.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
i really have a hard time believing
that teams in the market for an offensive dman are sitting around waiting for the elite scoring winger to land somewhere before finalizing their offer.
They’re different assets. it’s not like any one team thinks they’re in the market for BOTH. We’re talking about $10-$12 million worth of hockey player here. Who has that much cap space left?
If Kabby isn’t traded by the deadline, it won’t be because of Kovalchuk
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
It's the issue of
if a team like NJ ends up in cap trouble, do they suddenly become more likely to move a D man to clear cap space.
I’m not saying that happens, but it IS a relevant issue for GM’s who have limited room to work with.
If a cheaper/younger option becomes available they might want to wait.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahahahaha WHY?
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess kovalchuk wanted them to
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it has more to do
with defending the rights of a player (under the CBA) than it does with the majority benefit of the players within the PA.
As many have pointed out, Kovy’s contract would have them paying more into escrow.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 26, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
PA has to, they represent the players and if a player is not happy then they have to file a grievence on his behalf, that’s the entire purpose to their existence whether they agree with the player or not
by PLAYOFFS!!!1 on Jul 26, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Well of course he did. I want everyone on this site to send me a thousand bucks too.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Chief, you know I’m not a pro-union guy.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I wonder if they were obligated to act, for some reason. I can’t imagine the conditions that must happen for the NHLPA to be able to deny one of its members an appeal.
I understand the escrow issue, but is it really that big a deal? We’re talking about a fraction of a percentage of each player’s salary. Isn’t the benefit from these bank-breaking contracts greater than the minor escrow loss?
A rising tide raises all ships, etc…
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Jul 26, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Ehhh, grieving Kovalchuk’s contract isn’t really “a rising tide,” it’s “boosting the top 2%.” I mean really, of the ~750 NHL players at any given time, how many of them are going to be worried about the legitimacy of a 17 year contract? Or hell, even the legitimacy of a comically front-loaded contract.
My real concern is that this sort of stubbornness is a sign of things to come for the next round of CBA talks. I really hope the NHLPA isn’t acting on some sort of “we have to grieve!” principal here.
As Burtch has pointed out though, they may be required to grieve by union by-laws/constitution.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure that’s true. Very few players will ever dream of getting this kind of deal. And since AAV is the league currency, long-tail deals actually depress AAV. Kovalchuk’s AAV is barely more than Kessel’s.
I don’t think these contracts are particularly helpful as precedents for anything except other long-tail deals that 99% of union members will never see.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I know that most players will never get close to a Kovalchuk deal. But if he’s worth 12 years at $100M (which is really what everyone knows this deal is), then mybe some other first liner can ask for 8/$50M with a straight face. And then some second liner gets half of that, and some third-liner can point to that deal, and the fourth liner… well, let’s face it, the fourth liners will always gets screwed.
Still, it leads to an interesting question: Is the NHLPA’s job to help the most players possible even if it means slightly less money being paid out in total, or to create the biggest salary pie that they can even if only a few players are getting big slices?
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Jul 26, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’d be there job to maximize the amount of money taken home by the players as a whole. Doing so means to minimize their escrow payments which are a direct result of salary vs. caphit differences. Just seems dumb to give to some while taking away from others.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
It really shows how counterintuitive a Union for professional athletes can be.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
To be honest, I’m don’t think the NHLPA really knows what their job actually is.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 26, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Mo Money, Mo Problems.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 26, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Their job is to protect the sanctity of contracts under the letter of the CBA
Bettman is always going to have an open-ended “spirit of the CBA” clause in there, and its the NHLPA’s job to make sure it is applied as tightly as possible.
Negotiating is done between CBA’s, not within them. Unfortunately, the CBA does not have a term limit on contracts. Too bad for the owners. Someone can sign a 50-year or 100-year contract if they wanted to – legally there is nothing in the CBA that prevents it.
Yes it is an effective circumvention, but that is what happens when you produce a shoddily-written 600 pg document.
If a union gives in at this level – no matter the practical ramifications to the individual players this time around – then how can they protect themselves the next time a borderline contract issue comes up?
When Tampa wouldn’t pay for Veilleux’s surgery, the PA filed a grievance. Similarly, if the Leafs or Blackhawks had tried to get out of the Blake/Hossa contracts because of the medical issues that emerged soon after signing, you can be sure the PA would have been on them instantly – and it would have been ugly.
This is no different: the PA’s job is to protect the contracts that its members sign. With that overarching policy in place, the only thing that “limits” what players can earn is their performance on the ice and the skill of their agent(s).
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 26, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
But does the NHLPA know that? Do you think they’ll be able to agree on a best defence for Kovy? Do you think every member is in agreement over filing of this grievance? The NHLPA is a mess and has been a mess since the lock-out. Sorry man.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 26, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Members don't need to be in agreement
Simpler analogy:
If you spend $10,000 in legal fees to dispute a matter of $50, most of us would agree that it is a poor decision.
However, if the goal is not economical maximization, but in fact to set a precedent with such a ruling that could save you hundreds of thousands in aggregate in the future, and it just happens to be a $50 case the first time it comes up, then it suddenly makes sense to challenge it.
Point being, any union knows there are bigger points of victory than dollars & cents. Each member individually might get screwed by the Kovalchuk deal, but the question that they are actually asking (implicitly) is
“If your contract was under threat of being thrown out, would you want the PA to grieve it on your behalf, Y/N?”
Regardless of headless leadership, it’s one of the most basic functions of a union.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 26, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s cool, I don’t need it simplified. I’m unionized and I deal with union’s regularly (work). I’ve seen unions do a half-assed job of representing members, and I’ve seen unions walk-away from representing insufferable members. I understand they must fight the contract issue. How hard will they fight it?
I’m just saying the NHLPA is not a well functioning union right now. They can’t agree on much, it’s been shown. Not sure how well this will go for them. I’m guessing their are members like Paul Bisonette, who don’t care much for money makers like Kovy.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 26, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah not for you specifically, but a general response if anyone didn’t know why the PA filed on behalf of Kovalchuk, even if it doesn’t make sense for the paycheques of 99% of the rest of the players.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 26, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure they do
They have a constitution, and bylaws… like any other similar organization.
The idea that they don’t is absurd.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
my bad
next time I’ll omit “To be honest”
and put “sarcasm intended”
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 26, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless their goal is to minimize escrow payments by getting the NHL to demand a smaller share, rather than working to make players’ contracts require less escrow.
Since I think I didn’t write the above very clearly: It doesn’t matter if Kovalchuk’s contract demands a bazillion dollars in escrow…if the next CBA doesn’t involve players paying in to escrow. In that case, defending Kovalchuk’s 17 year cap-circumventing deal and eliminating escrow from the CBA is about as win-win as the NHLPA could get.
Mmmm, greedy NHLPA.
Ah, good point.
I’m of the belief that escrow should be eliminated as it basically nulls the idea of “guaranteed salary” that is supposed to be a part of the CBA.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I’m not entirely sure I understand escrow, but if I’ve got it right (and it genuinely revolves around players having an interest in the league’s performance), I think there needs to be something like it involved.
Especially as we keep trying to justify expansions, I think even players in Toronto and Edmonton should want teams like Phoenix, Florida, and Ottawa to do well financially. They’re just struggling little teams that can’t fill seats, and I’d hate to see NHL teams leave those cities without their players having any incentive to get out and promote the game in their communities.
I don’t think [star player] visiting little timmy down at the hospital or whatever is going to bump up the revenue enough to cover the amount held out of player checks last year. I’m pretty sure that was in the 15-20 percent range.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure how it's "greedy"
for the players to want a bigger slice of the pie, any more than it is for the owners to want a bigger slice of the pie.
You’ve got two groups, both of whom have a major piece of their lives invested in the whole operation, who feel that they’re important enough to warrant a solid chunk of change. Greed doesn’t really enter into it once you go beyond the whole design of the system.
It’s capitalism… that’s how it works.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right, and I’d thought I’d deleted that part out before posting. But your explanation is a little sour, as players and owners both wanting a bigger slice of the pie…is almost the straight up definition of greed. Yes, it is capitalism, and yes, it doesn’t need to have a negative connotation attached, but it is greed. The system is designed around greed, and the fact that the NHLPA is supposed to jump hard into “win-win” situations doesn’t not make it greedy.
(The selfless, practical route here would be if both sides were to meet and discuss the contract as an individual and as a precedent, looking for compromise and a start to the CBA talks next summer, imo. There’s no reason this should go to an arbitrator this quickly when we’re so close to having to negotiate about it as is.)
What do you mean “create the biggest salary pie”? It’s fixed. That’s what the cap does. The cap is really a pie mould for each team (not that they have to fill theirs all the way to the top), and escrow is the pastry knife they use to snip off a bit from each slice if the total weight of all the pies together goes over a pre-set number (i.e., forty whatever percent of league revenue).
Nothing Kovy or the lawyers do will change the overall pie weight allowed to the players (unless the CBA changes), all it can do is rearrange ever so slightly which players get how much.
Almost no Union (although this is an association)
in existence that I’m aware of has a structure where it doesn’t file grievances on behalf of members that want a grievance filed.
If Kovy wants to file a grievance, they file it for him. The whole Devils not objecting thing was completely irrelevant, and what the other players think of his contract is irrelevant.
If a member has a problem with the league, a grievance is filed, and the PA has to support him… it’s likely in the constitution and/or bylaws.
If it isn’t, their PA is a complete waste of time and a joke.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m actually way more excited for this year’s tourney than last. We get to see some of the Burke draft picks take the ice this time. Blacker, Ross, McKegg, Ryan, and Carrick, as well as Mueller, Aulie, Rynnas, Scrivens, etc.
but no pop
hopefully they televise it this year
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
agree
holzer, kadri too.
must. temper. expectations.
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Jul 26, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I want Devane to break someones face
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah don't forget
we’re playing against Chicago – they’ve got some damn good prospects themselves.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
the only one that kinda worries me is Beach, I could see him and Kadri mixing it up
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s where devane comes in.
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Jul 26, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
also Ross, I kinda hope that kid goes schitzo at some point
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t be surprised, all these kids are trying to show Burke they’re his type of player. They’ll be some truculence that’s for sure.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 26, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, last year it lead to Devane shattering a couple bones in his hand
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
calling it.
Dido and Paradis combine for 10pts.
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Jul 26, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
and sweatty bill, after signing with the Pens scores two hatties
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yakov Mironov says it’s time for Burke to put down the pole and get working.
This sounds dirty.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
What? Burke can’t work with a pole in his hand?
Also, NIKOLAI!!! ANTROPOV!!! One of the league’s best 5-on-5 players. God I miss that gargantuan freak, and now I guess I have to be all sad about Van Ryn, fare well o breaker of glass, MIlan Lucic barely knew ye.
Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Yes I find myself VERY amusing
Did anyone else notice
that Andrew Ladd and Nik Antropov are probably going to play on the top line for Atlanta together next season?
Also did anyone notice that there are ZERO leafs on that list, and we had a horrible power play last year? Just saying – we might suck based on that metric.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
there are also no LA Kings, Montreal Canadiens, St Louis Blues, etc etc etc
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Also teams
LA couldn’t make the playoffs until last year, and Montreal and St. Louis have sucked for a while… just saying the Leafs HAD a player on that list in Antropov and we dealt him for a 2nd round pick… so sad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
yes but
He reportedly asked for ~5m from sather (!) who laughed him out of the room. He got $4m from Atlanta, but how many people would be happy with Antropov as Toronto’s 1st line center?? (by default with that salary..)
If you weren’t bringing him back anyway, thats a freebie 2nd rounder.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 26, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I miss Antro, but I wouldn’t have paid him $4MM.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's put it this way
How many C are there in the NHL who are superior to him all around? Are there more than 25? I’d have a hard time making that list.
Seriously, he has to be one of the most under-rated NHLers I’ve ever seen… and he played here for almost a decade.
Hell he was +13 on the ATLANTA THRASHERS FOR CHRISSAKES. He was playing with Afinogenov on his wing, and Afinogenov was -17… he was +13… how the hell does he NOT get recognition as a top player?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh
and he only played 76 games. He had the same number of points per game as Pavel Datsyuk and Nathan Horton… he had the same number of goals as Brad Richards and Vincent Lecavalier (24), He had the 19th best +/- of all Centres. Oh and he had the top shooting percentage of every centre in the NHL (19.0%).
His career shooting percentage is 14.0% so that was likely skewed upwards, but he took only 126 shots last season, playing mainly as a passer, not as a shooter, and he could easily post over 200 if he worked at it, and score around 30 goals.
I just think he’s one of the best all around C in the NHL, and despite the fact that his faceoff numbers aren’t great, he deserves way more recognition than he gets.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Pavel Datsyuk and Nathan Horton had the same PPG last year? Most excellent.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but datsyuk is more physical
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Counterpoint:
Look at that forehead.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 26, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
not impressed
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Cro Magno.
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 26, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s putting it another way. At $4MM he pretty much needs to be your #1C unless you’re getting major savings elsewhere on your payroll. And if he’s your #1C I don’t think you have a very good team.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He had a higher GVT
than Corey Perry, Thomas Vanek, Jarome Iginla, Paul Stastny, Scott Gomez, Brian Gionta, Mike Cammalleri, Jason Arnott, Jason Spezza, Daniel Briere…
I don’t think he’s getting his due is all.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll agree with you on that… which is a different question than whether I’d want to pay him $4MM.
I agree he’s probably underrated league wide.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes but
You’re not considering what a $4 million contract gets you these days from my perspective.
You’re arguing he’s a 2nd tier top line centre… which I’ll accept, but I Think in the NHL that’s easily worth $4 million.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree with you on market value either. I’m just expressing my personal philosophy of team building.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to jump on this,
But from an organizational perspective, keeping 2nd tier players around because we already had them is exactly what got the leafs into this mess in the first place.
I like the mentality of not settling, but taking whats worthwhile (kessel, beauchemin, etc), seeing what you have (kadri, schenn, etc) and trying to swing for the fences if you can (nash, kovalchuk, etc).
Yes, Nash re-signed before anyone had a chance, and yes Kovalchuk priced himself out of our range, but if you keep yourself in the mix in that way, you’re always an option.
Consider the recent NBA free agency: would you rather have been a team that dumped salary, tried to go after Lebron et al, and failed? Or would you like to be a team that clogged themselves with mid-level talent/contracts and couldn’t even be a player in the Lebron sweepstakes?
I want Burke to be Option 1 each & every time.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 26, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Woah
ok … calling him a 2nd tier player is ridiculous.
He’s not an NHL all-star Centre… that doesn’t mean he’s a “2nd tier” player…
He’s more than worth $4 million in the NHL cap world right now, and he’s proven it in more than one situation.
He’s worth what he’s being paid, and then some. He’s horribly under-rated and this kind of commentary is why… this whole swing for the fences mentality is great, except there aren’t enough players to go around, and we don’t seem to want to suck long enough to draft our own 1st overall pick.
We had a top 20 NHL Centre ice man in our organization, and we traded him for a 2nd round draft pick. That is idiotic.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Idiotic?
Not when you’re a team that’s been floundering since the lockout and are trying to establish a new team identity.
Antropov is not part of that future. Playing him right now would improve the Leafs, yes, but going forward he didn’t fit. Trading him for a 2nd round pick is getting something for an asset you no longer want.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I just think not wanting him
was playing coy. The reason he was the first significant piece dealt by Burke was mainly because he had more value than the other pieces.
I also think that a 2nd round pick was a huge under-sell. I don’t know that I agree that he wouldn’t “fit” going forward. I’m not saying I want things to move backwards at this point, I just really think Antropov is under-rated is all… If you gave him 17 minutes of ES ice time a game, and another 3:40 of PP time, he’d be a point per game player in the NHL.
We haven’t had one of those since Sundin left.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
sure
Given that Dominic Moore also got a 2nd round pick, it was a huge undersell.
I really like Antropov and really think he’d be nice to have on the Leafs. However, he’s a 30 year old forward. It appears to me that Burke wanted to use Antropov’s cap space to shore up our defense, and go with young forwards. Fits his building from the net out philosophy.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, 67 points in 76 games is not a PPG player. He was on a PPG pace after the Kovalchuk signing, but the Leafs have had a few players put up a PPG pace at various times in the past season.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
If you look at the
ESp/60 and PPp/60 numbers I quoted above, and gave him similar ice time to Iginla at ES and Paul Stastny on the PP (which is what I was quoting in the TOI numbers I gave) he’d have put up around 58 ESP and 24 PPP which would give him an 82 point season in 82 games.
That’s a ppg player in the NHL last I checked.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a weird definition of a PPG player.
82 points in 82 games is mine.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
what I’m saying is your calculation assumes a lot which is unverifiable.
You can say that he has the potential, given more ice time, to be a PPG player, but since he has never put up the equivalent of 82 points in 82 games, saying he IS a PPG player is misleading.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
How is it unverifiable?
I’m using his points per 60 minutes ratings from a year ago at ES and on the PP… and we’re talking a difference of 2 seconds per game on the PP, and 2 minutes at ES, so the majority of the increase comes at ES.
Antropov is one of the 30 most productive players in the NHL over the past 3 seasons at even strength, producing 2.50 pp/60 at even strength was actually a SLOW down from his time with the Leafs when he was over 2.61 pp/60 at ES. He’d easily maintain those numbers.
I see no reason to assume his numbers would dip, particularly since they maintained without Kovalchuk.
He averaged only 17:18 in ice time after the Kovy trade and that included almost 3:30 in PP ice time a game, so he was averaging under 15 minutes at Even Strength per game. Giving him an increased point total if he plays more minutes isn’t really something we can’t verify.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
I said … if you do x… then y. That isn’t me saying he WAS a point per game player… I’m saying if he played the same minutes as most of his peers did last year, he would have been.
He played less than a lot of the other top centres at even strength…he still plays more than all the other centres on Atlanta, so he’s not considered a liability, he just isn’t dominating their ice time as much as he might.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You can only verify it by giving him more playing time.
How many times in real life have results that have been extrapolated from a previous data set actually been 100% accurate?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s that? Given more playing time a player might score more points? ASTOUNDING! Nobel prize, here we come! Karina’s right – good for Antropov, but the only place he managed a point per game is in your hypothetical scenario, and…not to tar all of them with the same brush, but in two hypothetical scenarios over the last five years, we’ve traded for two starting goalies. Yeeeeeah.
Your words:
You’re arguing he’s a 2nd tier top line centre… which I’ll accept
Burtch, 5:26pm
Woah
ok … calling him a 2nd tier player is ridiculous.
He’s not an NHL all-star Centre… that doesn’t mean he’s a "2nd tier" player… Burtch, 5:42pm
I was just using your own conceit in my response.
I don’t have a problem with Antro, and I realize he is a very good player. But he is not tier 1. He is a definite first-liner, but not tier 1. I want excellent players for the Leafs. I want Magic and I want Showtime. That’s why I really like Kessel. And Versteeg. And Kadri and Phaneuf and Gustavsson and Bozak and Kulemin.
Because they each have the spark of something special, if we could be so lucky.
Its also why I want top talent via trade. Ribeiro? Do not want. Clowe? Do not want. SImmonds? I have no idea. My Kaberle wishlist reads like the delusional how-to guide of HFBoards: B-Richards, J-Staal, Carter, Eriksson, Neal, Sharp, Zajac, Backes, Bergeron or Savard or whatever centre Boston has to dump…
I get frustrated at this team when it makes moves like the Finger signing. Or the Hollweg trade. Or the Mayers trade. But I don’t wring my hands at cutting bait on a guy who’s good, but just not going to be great enough on your team.
-————————————
I became a fan of Antropov through the regular path: I was sick of him before the lockout, but his improvement after showed me why they had drafted him in the first place. I could see his skill & chemistry with Poni while Don Cherry was still calling them the two towers.
Unfortunately, I could also see how injuries had delayed his emergence. In the 06-07 and 07-08 seasons, his skill was evident. But the sum of all those injury-shortened seasons had stalled his development to where he was not a blossoming 24 year old, but an above average 28 year old. If his talent had been sturdier in his youth, when Mats was still bleeding & balding for this team, it would have been something wonderful to see the fruits of all those Pat Quinn assurances. We should have had the young power winger teaming up with our glorious power captain.
But that’s not the way history happened, so the team was left with a very obvious decision at the start of the 08-09 season: what can we do with Nik Antropov?
If the price is right, we keep him on as the bridge for the next 3 years. If not, we move him.
The talent is not in question. But what would we have thought of the great Brian Burke rebuild if he had decided to hitch a $4m wagon to a 29 year old lifetime Leaf? Antropov is not a centrepiece to build around, despite his excellent near-ppg production as a #1 centre.
I was happy to at least get a 2nd for Antro, much as I was happy to get a 2nd for Poni (about what Caputi’s worth).
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions
ignoring the possibly kovalchuk factor (dont know how his qteam stat would influence his performance), it may come down to utilization.
he played less minutes, but what does that say about his value as an investment? if his coach didnt want to use him in varied situations in atlanta, then how would RW have made the most of him here?
in the QVT list you gave, everyone except vanek & spezza can give you more than just ES & PP production. if Atlanta (with no other options) didnt want to use Antropov more (despite him being used on a decently effective PK pair w/ Poni in the Maurice years), then if might make you uncomfortable to be paying him $4m.
A similar question to me is, do you want Mike Ribeiro on your team at $5m?
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 26, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
He played less minutes
as a result of playing 6 fewer games. 6×15 = 90 minutes of ES hockey. He had the 2nd highest ESTOI /g of any atlanta forward after Kovalchuk, and 2nd highest PPTOI/g of any atlanta forward after Kovalchuk
The fact that he had 200 fewer minutes than his scoring peers at Centre ice is not indicative of a lack of faith from his coaches, it indicates that he produces more with less ice time.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
oh sorry, missed that:
1) what was his TOI/g compared to those above him on your list?
2) what was his Pts/60 compared to those above him on your list?
i’ll adjust my opinion accordingly.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 26, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
His TOI
was 14:33 ES, and 3:34 at PP… he had 2.50 p/60 at ES, and 4.63 p/60 on the PP.
Compare those with Horton 16:02 at ES, and 3:39 on the PP, but 2.53 ESp/60 and 2.78 PPp/60, or Spezza with 14:48 ES and 3:50 on the PP, but 2.22 ESp/60 and 6.25 PPp/60.
Here are the others:
Vanek – 13:02 ES, 2.26 ESp/60, 3:37 PP, 4.19 PPp/60
Stastny – 15:59 ES, 2.50 ESp/60, 3:47 PP, 4.89 PPp/60
Iginla – 17:02 ES, 2.06 ESp/60, 3:31 PP, 4.36 PPp/60
Antropov is in the SAME echelon as all of the aforementioned players, and he’s not considered to be in their peer group… I think that’s a shame, and it’s baffling to me that Leaf fans still think so little of the guy.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Not wanting him at $4MM is not the same as not thinking highly of him. I think very highly of him. To me, he’s one of the 30 best Cs in the NHL right now.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
at this point, it sort of seems like you and I are generally in agreement on his NHL value, if not his having a place on the Leafs – although I think it’s ridiculous that we couldn’t find a spot for Antropov in the top 2 C’s on the team for $4 million.
I understand the culture change issue, but I have a hard time accusing Antropov of not having to work for his spot in the NHL since the guy has come back from at least 3 major knee injuries, and probably thanks his lucky stars on a daily basis he’s still in the NHL making money at all.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The reports above are that Antropov asked the Rangers for $5 mill per season. I expect his demands from the Leafs were similar, and with Burke, once he’s traded you instead of re-signing you, it seems like there’s no going back.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say he's probably
worth $5 million… although I can see why Burke wouldn’t offer him that kind of money.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
My own view is that Bozak is almost as good, at half the price (guessing here as to what bonuses he achieved).
And I don’t think you can pay a 2C $4MM. Plus we already have Grabbo. Not that he’s better, or even better value, just that we have him and presumably he’s not going anywhere.
It’s just a fit thing, like Karina said.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Nik Antropov
is superior to Mike Ribiero… this is not a debatable issue.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
this is not a debatable issue
Everything is debatable – except Brayden Irwin’s speed.
Spoiler Alert: It’s slow.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 26, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Among ATL Fs, he was 3rd in QoT and 3rd last in QoC. He played soft minutes with excellent offensive teammates.
I’ve watched him for a decade and I really like him; I just think UFA premiums should be reserved for premium players, and to me, Antropov doesn’t make that list. He’s a second-tier #1C.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm
he had the 3rd HIGHEST QOC… not 3rd lowest… you’re reading that wrong.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
and his QOT
was -0.065… I think you’re reading the wrong stats.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Datsyuk
by way of comparison had a QTEAM of 0.364, and a QCOMP of 0.029… Antropov QoT was -0.065, and QoC was 0.034… Worse team-mates, harder opposition… same ppg rating…
He produced the same with LESS against TOUGHER opposition.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If you think Antropov is in the same league as Datsyuk… I don’t know what to say.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to nitpick
but they both play in the NHL.
As for saying he’s in the same league, I’m saying his QoC was higher, and his QoT was lower… and he produced the same number of ppg last season.
You can take from that whatever you want… it’s a fact, and it’s sort of silly to ignore it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
And there are about 50 other facts that separate Datsyuk from Antropov. Which I’m too lazy to list here.
Bottom line: one is deservedly a repeated Hart Trophy candidate. The other is not.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I get that
I’m just saying… he’s worth $4 million, and the fact that you can even compare him to Datsyuk at all should make that a bit more obvious should it not?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I go by corsi QoC, which I think all statheads agree is better than Qualcomp because it’s based on corsi rather than +/-. Pretty sure I’m reading it right. -0.725.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
And please tone down the arrogance. I know my way around BtN and I’ve been going out of my way trying to agree with you where possible.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry
but I don’t really feel like I’m being arrogant… It just blows my mind that I’ve been making this argument for years, and because Brian Burke said he’s not worth $4 million everyone just jumps aboard.
You’re more willing to look into the numbers than most… sorry if I’m coming across as peeved with all of this.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
No prob, and I’m not taking my cue from Burke. I admit I am peculiar but I generally oppose paying UFA premiums unless they are truly elite. That’s why I opposed the Armstrong, Komisarek and Lebda signings and advocated Kovalchuk.
FWIW I actually liked the Beauchemin signing. Thought it was good value.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather have
Antropov at $4 million, than Kovalchuk at $7 million… or Komisarek at $4.25 million, or Armstrong at $3 million, or Lebda at $1.5 or whatever he’s making.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I miss him and his Poni
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
should afino return to atlanta?
whats ramsay like as a coach, would he still be allowed to showcase himself in a top role? or would there be lindy ruff-style expectations of two-way play from him?
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 26, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He just did that
and he can’t get signed to a deal worth more than last season? He may end up in the KHL.
I’m shocked nobody has offered him $4 million yet.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He posted
61 points last year, and he’s put up seasons of 61, and 73 points prior to that.
He’s scored 20 goals 4 times in his career, and he’s only 31.
Problem is, he was -17 last season.
He’s great as a PP specialist though… that’s again , something the Leafs could use.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
He played more minutes
last season than he ever has… that might be part of why he was -17.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Also remember Antro and Max were playing with Kovalchuk. That would likely inflate offensive numbers (and perhaps deflate defensive ones).
I’m guessing Antro found himself playing 5 on 3 a fair bit.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I kinda hope they sign Poni and reunite him and antro
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
they were good together
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
Antropov's scoring after the Kovalchuk trade
11 goals, 14 assists, 25 points in 25 games. PPG player WITHOUT Kovalchuk.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and I like this better
Kovalchuk’s scoring after the trade:
10 goals, 17 assists, 27 points in 27 games. PPG player WITHOUT Antropov… but fewer goals.
HE was also playing with Parise, Zajac, Langenbrunner, and Elias a lot… Antropov was suiting up with Bergfors, Little, and Aginogenov. I’m guessing Kovy probably had a bit more help?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 26, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I am with you that Nik is worth 4mil. Here’s a question though: where does he fit on our team? Does he erase Kadri’s pencil spot? Force a trade of Grabbo? Do we put him back at wing? All hypotheticals of course. I think for a guy like that you make room, but where exactly?
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 26, 2010 8:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think the argument is not whether or not he fits on the team as is, but is he worth more than a 2nd and a ridiculous conditional (I think it was the Rangers had to make the conf finals for us to pick up a 2010 4th)
It’s tough to think of a projected PPG player at 4mil being traded for that, even if he is just a rental. It’s tough not to draw correlation lines to Kaberle at that thought.
Prefers pugnacity to truculence.
I finally understand LTIR
Thanks to the example added to capgeek’s FAQ section: http://www.capgeek.com/faq.php
Man are they ever awesome.
reports all over twitter are that Frolov has signed a 1 year deal to play for the Rangers.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 6:01 PM EDT reply actions
I hate that we have to wait for the $$$ to leak out.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
we should sue somebody to make that happen quicker
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That is the most annoying part, I agree.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
sue somebody
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 26, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
oh my, you don’t like yourself very much, do you?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t it obvious?
I would have expected the reaction to be more along the lines of “well that explains everything”.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 26, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, that’s just 30 years of being a Leafs fan.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
true, this is what Calvin & Hobbes would do.
I wonder where I could find a good lawyer? jrwendelman is all busy-like lately.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 26, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If Frolov
signed with the Rangers, he’s a great pick up for them.
A top line with him and Gaborik on opposite wings would be deadly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
centered by the mighty chris drury!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 26, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Garry Valk Tower - Up to Fourth
Valk Tower is still ranked fourth in the contest to name a condo across from the ACC. Come on guys, we can do this. Bridge the gap to the top three.
You can vote once a day. Let’s get a Leaf on there.
by Montreal Export on Jul 26, 2010 8:56 PM EDT reply actions
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